Here we go again >>> look forwarded to how some are going to convince us this is just another nothing burger :kewl:


Lets use the Maxine waters standard That the right uses to say she was inciting violence.. to evaluate what Trump said FYI the POTUS ..

I don't know what he said but are you saying he is not entitled to his own opinion because he is President? Is this something he should be impeached for? ;)

The press should stick to reporting and not propaganda and antagonizing. They used to be Journalists but something happened years ago.

I don't know what he said but are you saying he is not entitled to his own opinion because he is President? Is this something he should be impeached for? ;)

The press should stick to reporting and not propaganda and antagonizing. They used to be Journalists but something happened years ago.

its funny the thread about the new justice is booming with giddy glee from Trump lovers ...


But him calling the press the enemy of the people and I get one excuses


"I don't know what he said but are you saying he is not entitled to his own opinion because he is President?"


Really I told you what he said??? you just dont care and clearly have a View of America that lacks a historical view ....

He should not be using that language. He should tell the truth, which is that most of them are shameless, ideological, elitist liars. But he can’t show diplomacy to his opponents, he’s not mature enough. Wdmso, I don’t know who you think the trump apologists are here, but there aren’t many here. When he does something I like i say so, and when he acts like a horses ass, many non-liberals here will say so. It’s the lefties here who cannot ever, ever criticize their own ranks. Maybe you have this confused with another site.

As to Maxine Waters, I love her, and hope she runs for president. Every time she opens her big, fat, disgusting, red mouth, money gets donated to the Gop. She’s probably doing more good for conservatism that Charles Krauthammer ever did.
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Wdmso, he also said yesterday that journalists deserve not to be in fear they will be attacked. I see you left that part out. I wonder why.
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its funny the thread about the new justice is booming with giddy glee from Trump lovers ...


But him calling the press the enemy of the people and I get one excuses


"I don't know what he said but are you saying he is not entitled to his own opinion because he is President?"


Really I told you what he said??? you just dont care and clearly have a View of America that lacks a historical view ....

His exaggerations do not surprise me at all, the country elected Archie Bunker. I have no control over what he spouts off about just as I have no control over what the media spins things as.

You told me what he said, well alright, that is fine if it's an exact quote with no other context then what are you looking for? Enemy of the people, ok what people? the half of the country that is not against him? He calls them fake news also, so what? He is crude and speaks his mind, you would rather have a weak feeble pushover? Not me, I am ok with someone that does not back down.

I care a lot.
Your opinion of my view of America has no bearing on anything whether you are right or wrong. Clearly some Americans wish to erase certain history and we all know who they are.

I think the reactions from the left are a result of his successes and they can't handle it, they have no answers for solutions and only want more power and bigger government.

He should tell the truth, which is that most of them are shameless, ideological, elitist liars.
Who are you talking about?
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He is crude and speaks his mind, you would rather have a weak feeble pushover? Not me, I am ok with someone that does not back down.

This is precisely what concerns me.

Speaking his mind shows he’s a pathological liar, feasts in conspiracy theories, doesn’t understand policy or history and can’t seem to grasp more than a one ingredient recipe.

But it’s ok because he stands his ground.
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This is precisely what concerns me.

Speaking his mind shows he’s a pathological liar, feasts in conspiracy theories, doesn’t understand policy or history and can’t seem to grasp more than a one ingredient recipe.

But it’s ok because he stands his ground.
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Obviously, Jim is wrong, you're not going berserk.

This is precisely what concerns me.

Speaking his mind shows he’s a pathological liar, feasts in conspiracy theories, doesn’t understand policy or history and can’t seem to grasp more than a one ingredient recipe.

But it’s ok because he stands his ground.
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Bush, McCain, and Romney, are decent to the core. You don’t agree with them on policy, but they are men of integrity. And the left, and the media, attacked him without mercy.

Trump brings much of it upon himself, but is also attacked in deranged fashion.

So what is the right supposed to do, Spence, in order to get a presidential candidate treated fairly?

Your side created Trump with the way they treated McCain and Romney. You still don’t get it.

Trump won, and he is fulfilling more campaign promises than the country is used to, and many things are working. The left can’t handle that their queen bee got creamed by a jerk who actually knows how to get things done, and who could care less about how things have always worked in the swamp.
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Obviously, Jim is wrong, you're not going berserk.

No not at all, I stand corrected.
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Wdmso, he also said yesterday that journalists deserve not to be in fear they will be attacked. I see you left that part out. I wonder why.
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Ahh so he gets to be Arsonist (the press is the enemy of the American people )

And then Fireman (journalists deserve not to be in fear they will be attacked.)

I get it you have no issue with a sitting POTUS calling the free press the enemy of the people Do you even have a line he can't cross


Donald J. Trump
✔
@realDonaldTrump
The FAKE NEWS media (failing @nytimes, @NBCNews, @ABC, @CBS, @CNN) is not my enemy, it is the enemy of the American People!


below sums it up nicely by David Malcolm


Trump’s thoughts and prayers are worthless at this point. It is sheer hypocrisy to suddenly care about journalists when you’ve spent over a year and a half denouncing and abusing them. Donald Trump is a liar and he hates the press because many are willing to call him out on his lies. They are willing to stand up to him and so, he decides to paint them as the enemy. In doing so, he is deliberately undermining the whole principle of the First Amendment, the right to freedom of speech.

Words are powerful things. As we’re seeing now, the language we use, and the language we allow to go unchallenged, can have far-reaching consequences for all of us.

Bush, McCain, and Romney, are decent to the core. You don’t agree with them on policy, but they are men of integrity. And the left, and the media, attacked him without mercy.

Trump brings much of it upon himself, but is also attacked in deranged fashion.

So what is the right supposed to do, Spence, in order to get a presidential candidate treated fairly?

Your side created Trump with the way they treated McCain and Romney. You still don’t get it.

Trump won, and he is fulfilling more campaign promises than the country is used to, and many things are working. The left can’t handle that their queen bee got creamed by a jerk who actually knows how to get things done, and who could care less about how things have always worked in the swamp.
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again your expectations are very low



http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer/browse/?page=1

Bush, McCain, and Romney, are decent to the core. You don’t agree with them on policy, but they are men of integrity. And the left, and the media, attacked him without mercy.

Trump brings much of it upon himself, but is also attacked in deranged fashion. only attacked for what he has done not what we imagined he did unlike the past POTUS

So what is the right supposed to do, Spence, in order to get a presidential candidate treated fairly?

Your side created Trump with the way they treated McCain and Romney. You still don’t get it. they lost the election like Hilliary not because of some imagined event

Trump won, and he is fulfilling more campaign promises than the country is used to, and many things are working. The left can’t handle that their queen bee got creamed by a jerk who actually knows how to get things done, and who could care less about how things have always worked in the swamp.
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Ahh Trump gets to be Arsonist (the press is the enemy of the American people )

And then Fireman (journalists deserve not to be in fear they will be attacked.)

Trump has not advocated that journalists be attacked. This is a FAKE NEWS tactic.


I get it you have no issue with a sitting POTUS calling the free press the enemy of the people Do you even have a line he can't cross

Trump has done nothing to abridge the freedom of the press. He has every right to free speech as does the Press.

Donald J. Trumpagains✔
@realDonaldTrump
The FAKE NEWS media (failing @nytimes, @NBCNews, @ABC, @CBS, @CNN) is not my enemy, it is the enemy of the American People!

I agree that FAKE NEWS is an enemy of the American People. The Press has its speech constitutionally protected so that the people can be truthfully informed. When the Press uses its speech to influence the people to vote for its agenda by taking extreme liberties with the truth, exaggerating, lying, resorting to various forms of yellow journalism, it is, indeed, an enemy of the American people.

below sums it up nicely by David Malcolm


Trump’s thoughts and prayers are worthless at this point. It is sheer hypocrisy to suddenly care about journalists when you’ve spent over a year and a half denouncing and abusing them. Donald Trump is a liar and he hates the press because many are willing to call him out on his lies. They are willing to stand up to him and so, he decides to paint them as the enemy. In doing so, he is deliberately undermining the whole principle of the First Amendment, the right to freedom of speech.
like
Words are powerful things. As we’re seeing now, the language we use, and the language we allow to go unchallenged, can have far-reaching consequences for all of us.

As the author says, words are powerful things. And if the language of the FAKE NEWS is allowed to go unchallenged, it can have far reaching consequences for all of us.

Mr. Malcolm should know that. But, then, he most likely thinks that he and his are the purveyors of truth, and everyone else is a liar. That is a dangerous way to think. That is an enemy of the people

again your expectations are very low



http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer/browse/?page=1
He appointed a superpower Supreme Court Justice who was on the right side of some huge rulings this past week, the economy is roaring, my tax rate is down, and terrorists are on the run. Call those expectations whatever you want, it’s better than I saw for the last eight years.

He’s not anything like an arsonist. He’s a thoughtless bigmouth.
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And trump has not only been attacked for what he has done, there have been plenty of false stories and reporters getting punished by their superiors. I have zero issue with honest, fair criticism. And if you think all media criticism has been fact based, you aren’t paying any attention. He’s being called hitler.
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Ahh so he gets to be Arsonist (the press is the enemy of the American people )

And then Fireman (journalists deserve not to be in fear they will be attacked.)

I get it you have no issue with a sitting POTUS calling the free press the enemy of the people Do you even have a line he can't cross


Donald J. Trump
✔
@realDonaldTrump
The FAKE NEWS media (failing @nytimes, @NBCNews, @ABC, @CBS, @CNN) is not my enemy, it is the enemy of the American People!


below sums it up nicely by David Malcolm


Trump’s thoughts and prayers are worthless at this point. It is sheer hypocrisy to suddenly care about journalists when you’ve spent over a year and a half denouncing and abusing them. Donald Trump is a liar and he hates the press because many are willing to call him out on his lies. They are willing to stand up to him and so, he decides to paint them as the enemy. In doing so, he is deliberately undermining the whole principle of the First Amendment, the right to freedom of speech.

Words are powerful things. As we’re seeing now, the language we use, and the language we allow to go unchallenged, can have far-reaching consequences for all of us.

You say I have no issue with his calling the press the enemy. Are you illiterate? I mean that, can you read? Read my response.
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Wdmso, and obama said that republicans “ gotta stop just hating all the time.” I guess that’s ok...when you say words matter, you only hold republicans to that standard. Try making that wrong.
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Wdmso, and obama said that republicans “ gotta stop just hating all the time.” I guess that’s ok...when you say words matter, you only hold republicans to that standard. Try making that wrong.
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That’s the hipocracy David Malcolm speaks of, he should know from experience if he is a leftists like the others. God help this country.
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That’s the hipocracy David Malcolm speaks of, he should know from experience if he is a leftists like the others. God help this country.
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Mr. Malcolm's version of FAKE NEWS in the article he wrote and which wdmso cites is so blatantly made up to make Trump responsible for the shooting that I don't understand why Wayne buys into it. The Shooter of The Capital Gazette employees has been a danger for years. He has had a dispute with the newspaper and various other people long before Trump was elected or said anything about FAKE NEWS and has been viewed with fear by many who knew him. One of those who knew him predicted he would be a mass shooter. There is no known connection between him and Trump or no known response by him to what Trump has said about FAKE NEWS. The only connection between Ramos and what Trump said is the fake assumed connection made up by Malcolm and other media types in order to make Trump the one who is the real danger to this country and to freedom of the Press.

Trump is right to call out the FAKE NEWS. And yes, Fake News, is a danger to the Republic, and so, IS an enemy of the people.

Mr. Malcolm's version of FAKE NEWS in the article he wrote and which wdmso cites is so blatantly made up to make Trump responsible for the shooting that I don't understand why Wayne buys into it. The Shooter of The Capital Gazette employees has been a danger for years. He has had a dispute with the newspaper and various other people long before Trump was elected or said anything about FAKE NEWS and has been viewed with fear by many who knew him. One of those who knew him predicted he would be a mass shooter. There is no known connection between him and Trump or no known response by him to what Trump has said about FAKE NEWS. The only connection between Ramos and what Trump said is the fake assumed connection made up by Malcolm and other media types in order to make Trump the one who is the real danger to this country and to freedom of the Press.

Trump is right to call out the FAKE NEWS. And yes, Fake News, is a danger to the Republic, and so, IS an enemy of the people.

you must have this bumper sticker on your car " The constitution and the 1st amendment for every one but the press (enemies of the state )

That’s the hipocracy David Malcolm speaks of, he should know from experience if he is a leftists like the others. God help this country.
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calling the press enemys of the people and “ gotta stop just hating all the time.” Ya they are exactly the same more false equivalences

The republic is in danger because of enablers such as yourself Jim and Detbunch and nostalgia..

calling the press enemys of the people and “ gotta stop just hating all the time.” Ya they are exactly the same more false equivalences

The republic is in danger because of enablers such as yourself Jim and Detbunch and nostalgia..
I didn’t say the statements were the same. But they both clearly show that trump and obama were each willing to demonize those who disagree with them. They were both thin skinned, vindictive babies with zero tolerance for criticism. One was just much more eloquent about it. Big whoop.
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The media has a major bias problem and sometimes does go as far as fake - but usually just heavily biased. The problem for some - and certainly for Trump, is that the bias favors Dems/Socialists . It is easy for many to make the leap to Fake. And sometimes the news is fake.

Having said all that - this guy was on the radar and having issues specifically with this paper while the Pres was doing a crappy TV show.

He had been brought in by the cops and they let him go over fear of further inciting him. He had sued the paper, represented himself, and was tossed by the judges. The guy was a nut.

Of course she is part of the lefts apparatus
Just remember he’s the guy who said he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and you’d still support him.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/22/trump-told-lesley-stahl-he-bashes-press-to-discredit-negative-stories.html
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Of course she is part of the lefts apparatus
Just remember he’s the guy who said he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and you’d still support him.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/22/trump-told-lesley-stahl-he-bashes-press-to-discredit-negative-stories.html
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I can understand using the same tactic to discredit that portion of the press that it uses to discredit him. If leftist press is free to put out whatever language it can to bring him down, as some have admitted to doing, Trump is just as free to return the favor.

What's so hard to understand about that?

The Progressive press knows well the consequence to its agenda if Trump can succeed in having his agenda passed. It was predicted that it would go all out, non-stop, to bring him down. And it has been exactly that, an everyday negative story, many exaggerated, hanging on the thin edge of reality, many totally wrong. Without an equal response, he might well have been forced to quit due to the unanswered perception of him cast by the media.

The notion that the press is unbiased has been discredited in the past decade or two. Those of us who are on various forms of the "right" have known it long before that. The mainstream media used to claim it was unbiased. We knew that to be untrue. Now, everyone knows there is a biased divide in leftist and rightist media.

And the rhetoric is no longer couched in careful words meant to sound impartial. It is divisive, harsh, biased, and purposely meant to destroy the opposition. This has been brewing to a boiling point, and the fire was started long before Trump.

Trump presents an existential threat to the left. It will try to destroy him in any way it can get away with.

And the leftist notion that he is attacking The Press is a lie conjured to cast Trump as a villain who is about destroying a hallowed institution. He specifically verbally attacks FAKE NEWS, not The Press.

The media has a major bias problem and sometimes does go as far as fake - but usually just heavily biased. The problem for some - and certainly for Trump, is that the bias favors Dems/Socialists . It is easy for many to make the leap to Fake. And sometimes the news is fake.

Having said all that - this guy was on the radar and having issues specifically with this paper while the Pres was doing a crappy TV show.

He had been brought in by the cops and they let him go over fear of further inciting him. He had sued the paper, represented himself, and was tossed by the judges. The guy was a nut.

Essentially, bias is a form of fake. The history of The Press, here and worldwide, is a record full of agendas supported by bias, lies, and reporting ostensive "news" while not reporting news that contradicts their intended message. The lie of omission has always been present in The Press. The Press has always possessed a big quotient of fake.

Essentially, bias is a form of fake. The history of The Press, here and worldwide, is a record full of agendas supported by bias, lies, and reporting ostensive "news" while not reporting news that contradicts their intended message. The lie of omission has always been present in The Press. The Press has always possessed a big quotient of fake.




Which is part the problem, a free and independent people of a free and independent nation needs to have a press that is protected - and they are. However, the press needs to do it's part to be honest and truthful and worthy of that protection - not fall in lockstep behind an ideology or party. That is one of many factors in how we got Trump.

If bias is a form of fake, would there not be fake news on the right?
While I can find an analysis by the right claiming that Politifact for example is biased, where is the analysis by the right of things claimed by politicians and there veracity?
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The media has a major bias problem and sometimes does go as far as fake - but usually just heavily biased. The problem for some - and certainly for Trump, is that the bias favors Dems/Socialists . It is easy for many to make the leap to Fake. And sometimes the news is fake.
I've said this before but the whole media bias thing is largely a bunch of bunk. The major news outlets still adhere to journalistic standards pretty effectively. The problem is how people have developed an appetite (i.e. addiction) for instant breaking news news combined with massive amounts of cheap fake news/propaganda.

What is bias anyway? If you report on the president obviously lying, are you supposed to give his lie equal footing?

Bush, McCain, and Romney, are decent to the core. You don’t agree with them on policy, but they are men of integrity. And the left, and the media, attacked him without mercy.
If you way back in the archives you'll see I was a McCain supporter until he lost his mind and chose Palin over Lieberman.

Trump brings much of it upon himself, but is also attacked in deranged fashion.
The press is just reporting his deranged behavior.

So what is the right supposed to do, Spence, in order to get a presidential candidate treated fairly?

Your side created Trump with the way they treated McCain and Romney. You still don’t get it.
Media treatment of Republicans didn't create Trump.

Trump won, and he is fulfilling more campaign promises than the country is used to, and many things are working. The left can’t handle that their queen bee got creamed by a jerk who actually knows how to get things done, and who could care less about how things have always worked in the swamp.
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He has a single significant legislative achievement. Most of Trump's "getting things done" has just been to break stuff without any plan to fix it. Now they're talking leaving the WTO. The recklessness of this is mind bending and the GOP is hiding under the table.

If you catch a big fish and the picture gets in the paper and you tell the reporter that it is the biggest fish ever, you are the greatest fisherman, would you call them fake news for only reporting that you caught a big fish or do they need to just accept your claims as truth?
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Now they're talking leaving the WTO. The recklessness of this is mind bending and the GOP is hiding under the table.

This is the saddest and scariest part. Many lawmakers in the gop disagree with things like tariffs and his handling of NK, Syria, Russia (we’ll see), but they are scared #^&#^&#^&#^&less of being primaried by a Trumpite so they are collectively hiding except for the few retirees.....
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I've said this before but the whole media bias thing is largely a bunch of bunk. The major news outlets still adhere to journalistic standards pretty effectively. The problem is how people have developed an appetite (i.e. addiction) for instant breaking news news combined with massive amounts of cheap fake news/propaganda.

What is bias anyway? If you report on the president obviously lying, are you supposed to give his lie equal footing?

"the whole media bias thing is largely a bunch of bunk"

To you, and to others who think the whole world is exactly like you, sure. Just like a fish isn't aware that it's wet. To those who think clearly, the bias is obvious and glaring, and it's now helping our side.

Trump is Hitler, women are going to be outlawed!!!

If you way back in the archives you'll see I was a McCain supporter until he lost his mind and chose Palin over Lieberman.


The press is just reporting his deranged behavior.


Media treatment of Republicans didn't create Trump.


He has a single significant legislative achievement. Most of Trump's "getting things done" has just been to break stuff without any plan to fix it. Now they're talking leaving the WTO. The recklessness of this is mind bending and the GOP is hiding under the table.

"I was a McCain supporter until he lost his mind and chose Palin over Lieberman. "

So the republican nominee is supposed to pick a liberal democrat for a running mate? I see you didn't hold it against Obama or Hilary when they chose running mates within their party.

"Media treatment of Republicans didn't create Trump."

Not entirely. Combined with liberals who demand tolerance on Monday and engage in riots in Tuesday to silence conservative speakers, had something to do with it. CNN giving debate questions to Hilary had something to do with it. The right reached its limit of being able to tolerate the horsesh*t. The results speak for themselves.


"He has a single significant legislative achievement"

Well, he's not part of the legislative branch now, is he? He eliminated lots of regulations, cut taxes for individuals and corporations, ended the Obama practice of separating families, nominated a superb supreme court justice who was on the right side of some major, major decisions.

"break stuff without any plan to fix it."

He's not breaking national security or the economy, and that's what matters to most people. What's broken, exactly?

If you catch a big fish and the picture gets in the paper and you tell the reporter that it is the biggest fish ever, you are the greatest fisherman, would you call them fake news for only reporting that you caught a big fish or do they need to just accept your claims as truth?
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You guys keep claiming that we are saying things that aren't even close to what we said (and one only does that, when one cannot respond to what was actually said, and I get that, you aren't holding any cards).

It's fair to call him out for the things he actually says and does. It's not fair to fabricate things, nor is it fair to virtually ignore the good he is doing. When he acts badly, criticize him, when he does something productive, give him credit. Your side can't do it, they just can't.

You guys keep claiming that we are saying things that aren't even close to what we said (and one only does that, when one cannot respond to what was actually said, and I get that, you aren't holding any cards).

It's fair to call him out for the things he actually says and does. It's not fair to fabricate things, nor is it fair to virtually ignore the good he is doing. When he acts badly, criticize him, when he does something productive, give him credit. Your side can't do it, they just can't.
Here is a recent report on Trump exaggeration, of course since they don't toe the party line they also are fake.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-07/sorry-mr-president-but-best-economy-was-probably-eisenhower-s
Sorry, but he doesn't deserve the superlatives he awards himself.
Just because you claim more than you are due, doesn't mean you get it.
He certainly deserves a participation award.:uhuh:

To you, and to others who think the whole world is exactly like you, sure. Just like a fish isn't aware that it's wet. To those who think clearly, the bias is obvious and glaring, and it's now helping our side.
That's because you've been brainwashed to think the press is the enemy.

CNN LEFT BIAS
These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward liberal causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports and omit reporting of information that may damage liberal causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy.Factual Reporting: MIXED
World Press Freedom Rank: USA 45/180

Fox RIGHT BIAS
These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward conservative causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports and omit reporting of information that may damage conservative causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy Factual Reporting: MIXED
World Press Freedom Rank: USA 45/180

NBC CBS ABC LEFT-CENTER BIAS
These media sources have a slight to moderate liberal bias. They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes) to favor liberal causes. These sources are generally trustworthy for information, but may require further investigation. See all Left-Center sources.

Factual Reporting: HIGH

BBC LEFT-CENTER BIAS
These media sources have a slight to moderate liberal bias. They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes) to favor liberal causes. These sources are generally trustworthy for information, but may require further investigation. See all Left-Center sources.

Factual Reporting: VERY HIGH


New york Times Washington post LEFT-CENTER BIAS
These media sources have a slight to moderate liberal bias. They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes) to favor liberal causes. These sources are generally trustworthy for information, but may require further investigation. See all Left-Center sources.

Factual Reporting: HIGH
World Press Freedom Rank: USA 45/180


wallstreet journal RIGHT-CENTER BIAS
These media sources are slightly to moderately conservative in bias. They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes) to favor conservative causes. These sources are generally trustworthy for information, but may require further investigation. See all Right-Center sources.

Factual Reporting: HIGH


So in a nut shell media bias is another manufactured lie from the far far right that has now gained wide support thru out the GOP and its Supporters ... if all we had was CNN and FOX it would be a wash

But the rest of the press listed have Factual Reporting some a little bias both ways.... But for Trump and his supporters its all Fake lies made to discredit him... 9 out 10 report the same story Trump supporters are going with the 10ths versions of events aka FOX

So the republican nominee is supposed to pick a liberal democrat for a running mate? I see you didn't hold it against Obama or Hilary when they chose running mates within their party.
It would have been a winner likely and brought a lot of bi-partisanship. Instead they went for the trick play.

Not entirely. Combined with liberals who demand tolerance on Monday and engage in riots in Tuesday to silence conservative speakers, had something to do with it. CNN giving debate questions to Hilary had something to do with it. The right reached its limit of being able to tolerate the horsesh*t. The results speak for themselves.
Most voters don't give a whip about colleges who don't want hate speech on campus. CNN didn't give debate questions to Clinton either, a democratic operative who was a contributor to CNN passed info along. Can't blame the media here.

Well, he's not part of the legislative branch now, is he?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Otbml6WIQPo

He eliminated lots of regulations, cut taxes for individuals and corporations, ended the Obama practice of separating families, nominated a superb supreme court justice who was on the right side of some major, major decisions.
He ended the Obama practice of separating families? Now you're just trolling, I won't be a party to that nonsense.

He's not breaking national security or the economy, and that's what matters to most people. What's broken, exactly?
Backing out of the Iran deal, coddling up to Putin, disparaging NATO and our longstanding alliances all undercut our national security.

Starting unnecessary and reckless trade wars, pulling out of favorable trade agreements, lying about our trade imbalances, lying about the deficit etc... etc... isn't helping the economy. Market gains for the year are gone and business is spooked.

So in a nut shell media bias is another manufactured lie from the far far right that has now gained wide support thru out the GOP and its Supporters ... if all we had was CNN and FOX it would be a wash

It's not a lie. Your source (World Press Freedom?) says that all the media you listed have a bias left or right. And they all use loaded words which attempt to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes.

Not mentioned is editorial slant. What is "factual reporting"? Do any report extensively on all "facts"? For instance, is there extensive reporting on the jailing of Tommy Robinson or on the facts he has been bringing to light?

But the rest of the press listed have Factual Reporting some a little bias both ways.... But for Trump and his supporters its all Fake lies made to discredit him... 9 out 10 report the same story Trump supporters are going with the 10ths versions of events aka FOX

9 out of 10 report the same story? Is there some collusion that they choose to reflect each other? Or are they motivated by the same bias?

Has anyone rated World Press Freedom? Does it have a bias?

You lie when you say "But for Trump and his supporters its all Fake lies made to discredit him..." It's not ALL fake news, but much of it is, including minimization or omission of positive news re Trump.

9 out of 10 report the same story? Is there some collusion that they choose to reflect each other? Or are they motivated by the same bias?

Has anyone rated World Press Freedom? Does it have a bias?

You lie when you say "But for Trump and his supporters its all Fake lies made to discredit him..." It's not ALL fake news, but much of it is, including minimization or omission of positive news re Trump.
The argument as usual is baseless, with no substance other than you claim that it is true.
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Here is a recent report on Trump exaggeration, of course since they don't toe the party line they also are fake.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-07/sorry-mr-president-but-best-economy-was-probably-eisenhower-s
Sorry, but he doesn't deserve the superlatives he awards himself.
Just because you claim more than you are due, doesn't mean you get it.
He certainly deserves a participation award.:uhuh:

I didn’t say he was awesome. But he’s nowhere near, I mean nowhere near, the cartoon villain the left and the media make him out to be. How many times has the media mentioned lowest black unemployment ever, and how many times have they mentioned Russia? Now I’m not saying russia isn’t a legitimate story, but it’s not the only story. Your side has lost its mind, absolutely lost its mind. Unemployment is down, take home pay is up, and the best idea you have is to let grown men share a bathroom with little girls if they identify that way.
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That's because you've been brainwashed to think the press is the enemy.

When was the last time you got one right?

They are dishonest, politically motivated hacks. They are not the enemy, they are actually helping my side, they are making trump ( a despicable person) sympathetic. Not easy to do, but they are pulling it off. They are absolutely, irrefutably, helping my side. Neither they, nor you, are rational enough to see it.
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It would have been a winner likely and brought a lot of bi-partisanship. Instead they went for the trick play.


Most voters don't give a whip about colleges who don't want hate speech on campus. CNN didn't give debate questions to Clinton either, a democratic operative who was a contributor to CNN passed info along. Can't blame the media here.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Otbml6WIQPo


He ended the Obama practice of separating families? Now you're just trolling, I won't be a party to that nonsense.


Backing out of the Iran deal, coddling up to Putin, disparaging NATO and our longstanding alliances all undercut our national security.

Starting unnecessary and reckless trade wars, pulling out of favorable trade agreements, lying about our trade imbalances, lying about the deficit etc... etc... isn't helping the economy. Market gains for the year are gone and business is spooked.

Just out of curiosity, why weren’t you criticizing obama for not picking Mitch McConnell? If McCain should have picked Lieberman, why the double standard on your part? Have fun with that.

Market gains are gone ytd. The market is way up since he got sworn in, and that’s what matters.
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Market gains are gone ytd. The market is way up since he got sworn in, and that’s what matters.

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It’s that Trump magic, started as soon as he was sworn in.
Now he’s going to pick a Supreme Court Justice from a list someone gave him, he’s interviewing to get a “feeling” he’ll know in a minute cuz that’s what he does.
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It’s that Trump magic, started as soon as he was sworn in.
Now he’s going to pick a Supreme Court Justice from a list someone gave him, he’s interviewing to get a “feeling” he’ll know in a minute cuz that’s what he does.
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"It’s that Trump magic, started as soon as he was sworn in."

As always, you are responding to something that isn't even close to anything that anybody said. As always, you do that, because you cannot respond effectively to what we are actually saying. The economy did well under Obama, It is doing better, now, under Trump. Obama got the credit he was due, Trump does not. Your side cannot bring themselves to admit that he's not Hitler.

"Now he’s going to pick a Supreme Court Justice from a list someone gave him"

And what the hell do you suppose Obama did? Put on a disguise and sit in lower courts all over the country to see judges for himself?

Put down the Kool Aid for three seconds, and think, man.

The argument as usual is baseless, with no substance other than you claim that it is true.
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Baseless? You who habitually throw stuff out without an apparent point and fail to back most of your stuff up, especially not in your own words? I asked 5 questions. Are the questions baseless? Aren't questions their own base?

The one positive statement that I made was a response to Wayne's saying that for Trump and his supporters the press is all Fake made to discredit him. It is not baseless, as one of his supporters, to say it's a lie to accuse me of saying that the entire Press is Fake. The basis for my saying that I don't claim such a thing is that I have not so claimed. I have said some of it is Fake, and it is that part that Trump and his supporters (including me) refer to as fake. Neither Trump nor his supporters have said the entire Press is fake.

And there have been several citations of fake news supposedly discrediting Trump submitted in past posts. As Spence would say, it's in the archives.

Amazing how unreasonable some people can be when it comes to this subject.
Nothing I say can shed any light on a closed mind.

https://youtu.be/gWXiNcVtuU4
Just keep believing
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https://youtu.be/gWXiNcVtuU4
Just keep believing
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I enjoyed the video.

9 out of 10 report the same story? Is there some collusion that they choose to reflect each other? Or are they motivated by the same bias? if there is 1 story reported on multiple stations Thats not Bias if their were 10 cars involved in the accident and its reported as such thats how News works.


Has anyone rated World Press Freedom? Does it have a bias? is that how you dispute their information just call it Bias ? and the truth goes away ?? Facts are facts bias only help change the story in ones mind you demonstrate that skill often (see comment above )

You lie when you say "But for Trump and his supporters its all Fake lies made to discredit him..." It's not ALL fake news, but much of it is, including minimization or omission of positive news re Trump.

Now that is a Dear leader comment if i have ever heard one .. and here i thought right leaning people were against the every deserves a trophy .... if you need the media to show Trump in a positive image of report positive news of Trump . move to Russia or North Korea where they are very good at it. or have him actually do or say some positive things...



Is there a personal or intellectual line Trump can not cross ?? or are you just willing to shelve morals, personal integrity, and comon decency to get a crumb that may fall off Trumps Table

reference to Franklin D. Roosevelt,

“Should we go back to 16 years? Congressman, can we have that extended? The last time I jokingly said that, the papers started saying 'he's got despotic tendencies!' No, I'm not looking to do it, unless you want to do it.”

“He's now president for life. President for life,” Trump said of Xi. “No, he's great. And look, he was able to do that. I think it's great. Maybe we'll have to give that a shot someday.”

Sorry its not hyperbole when it comes from the POTUS

When was the last time you got one right?

They are dishonest, politically motivated hacks. They are not the enemy, they are actually helping my side, they are making trump ( a despicable person) sympathetic. Not easy to do, but they are pulling it off. They are absolutely, irrefutably, helping my side. Neither they, nor you, are rational enough to see it.
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thats funny coming from the guy who worn out "you can keep your doctor" To prove Obama was a liar liar and was horrible .. The media is helping my side making Trump look sympathetic No you are by being an enabler selling your soul to the devil for a few crumbs while turning a blind eye to everything else thats going on in the Trump Magic show ... and convincing yourself its the media's doing ... Sorry Trump has all ready put you in a state of hypnosis.. you just think you can control and put the genie back in the constitutional bottle if it needs to happen .. maybe but its doubtful

Amazing how unreasonable some people can be when it comes to this subject.
Nothing I say can shed any light on a closed mind.

never thought being against the POTUS for calling the enemy of the people was unreasonable


"Nothing I say can shed any light on a closed mind "

your right .. especially when the message came from a closed mind to start with

This thread is priceless,we have two close-minded people calling each other close-minded. Not exactly constructive but high on entertainment value. Keep spinning the wheels and make a difference.
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thats funny coming from the guy who worn out "you can keep your doctor" To prove Obama was a liar liar and was horrible .. The media is helping my side making Trump look sympathetic No you are by being an enabler selling your soul to the devil for a few crumbs while turning a blind eye to everything else thats going on in the Trump Magic show ... and convincing yourself its the media's doing ... Sorry Trump has all ready put you in a state of hypnosis.. you just think you can control and put the genie back in the constitutional bottle if it needs to happen .. maybe but its doubtful

"coming from the guy who worn out "you can keep your doctor" To prove Obama was a liar "

But I am 100% correct when I say that. When Obama was selling the ACA, he said you could keep you plan and doctor if you wanted. He was wrong. I don't believe he was lying, I think he believed it to be true, it just turned out he was wrong.

"No you are by being an enabler selling your soul to the devil for a few crumbs "

I am brutally critical of Trump when he deserves it, which is often. We have that in common. The difference between us, the only difference, is that I can also give him credit when he does something that helps us.

You define "a few crumbs" as Apple paying $38 billion in federal taxes, and adding 20,000 new jobs. That's one company. Only someone with literally zero understanding of how the private sector works, would call that crumbs.

You define "a few crumbs" as Apple paying $38 billion in federal taxes, and adding 20,000 new jobs. That's one company. Only someone with literally zero understanding of how the private sector works, would call that crumbs.
Jim, Here is how the crumbs are distributed and if you look you can see why it is called crumbs. No it is not all Trumps fault, but the tax cut did not reduce the disparity or make it so the bottom 50% had more of a chance to gain some wealth.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/12/06/the-richest-1-percent-now-owns-more-of-the-countrys-wealth-than-at-any-time-in-the-past-50-years/?utm_term=.fba25527f619

Anyone notice the tragic irony that this post was followed shortly after by a guy shooting up a newspaper?

Only a lefty loon would represent those pieces as being tied together.
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Jim, Here is how the crumbs are distributed and if you look you can see why it is called crumbs. No it is not all Trumps fault, but the tax cut did not reduce the disparity or make it so the bottom 50% had more of a chance to gain some wealth.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/12/06/the-richest-1-percent-now-owns-more-of-the-countrys-wealth-than-at-any-time-in-the-past-50-years/?utm_term=.fba25527f619

"the tax cut did not reduce the disparity "

What does reduce the disparity, which has been shown to work and to be sustainable? Please tell me.

I go back to Bill Clinton again, who cut capital gains taxes (which obviously disproportionately helps wealthy people), and he kicked millions of poor people off of welfare. He helped fuel the tech boom which made already-wealthy people, ungodly wealthy. Yet he is a hero of the left. Why? Can you explain why, please?

Anyone notice the tragic irony that this post was followed shortly after by a guy shooting up a newspaper?

A kook who was making threats against the paper, and investigated by the police for doing so, LONG before Trump thought of running. A former female employee of that paper, moved out of state because she felt so threatened by this guy. All long before Trump was a politician.

He was a madman, on record as being a madman. How dare you imply any connection whatsoever, to what Trump said? You have no shame, no honesty, none, zip, zilch.

Only a lefty loon would represent those pieces as being tied together.
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Absolutely, there is zero connection. None. But bashing Trump is all that matters.

Trump and his family are getting richer by the day, promoting the family brands and properties with hundreds of visits to them; laughing all the way to the bank while stirring the media with one distraction after another. No blind trust for him, business interests remain unchanged, no tax returns to review, no threat by the Republican control to hold him accountable. Jim wants us to give the man credit when he does something worth praise, I will say for a guy that can screw thousands and thousands of people with one bankruptcy after another, they guy always finds someone or some country willing to fund the family business.

While the Trump brand is going to come out of this stronger then ever, the USA brand will be IMHO severely hurt by the actions of this administration. Jim I’d be carefully giving too much credit to Trump for the state of the economy, it was in pretty good shape when he took office. My retirement has been reduced significantly to a point most of the gains since he took office, have been erased and if this stupid poorly planned trade war continues; I suspect all my gains will be lost.

I will give Trump credit for getting a large number of youth and women engaged in politics, which may be his undoing if he runs again; assuming the Democratic Party can get its #^&#^&#^&#^& together. As an independent I vote based on the merits of the candidates and I can only hope the choices are far superior to the crap we had this past one.
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"the tax cut did not reduce the disparity "

What does reduce the disparity, which has been shown to work and to be sustainable? Please tell me.
You didn't read the article did you?

I go back to Bill Clinton again, who cut capital gains taxes (which obviously disproportionately helps wealthy people), and he kicked millions of poor people off of welfare. He helped fuel the tech boom which made already-wealthy people, ungodly wealthy. I thought Al Gore invented the Internet :doh: Yet he is a hero of the left. Why? Can you explain why, please?
Jim,
Why would you think I could explain Bill Clinton to you?

Trump and his family are getting richer by the day, promoting the family brands and properties with hundreds of visits to them; laughing all the way to the bank while stirring the media with one distraction after another. No blind trust for him, business interests remain unchanged, no tax returns to review, no threat by the Republican control to hold him accountable. Jim wants us to give the man credit when he does something worth praise, I will say for a guy that can screw thousands and thousands of people with one bankruptcy after another, they guy always finds someone or some country willing to fund the family business.

While the Trump brand is going to come out of this stronger then ever, the USA brand will be IMHO severely hurt by the actions of this administration. Jim I’d be carefully giving too much credit to Trump for the state of the economy, it was in pretty good shape when he took office. My retirement has been reduced significantly to a point most of the gains since he took office, have been erased and if this stupid poorly planned trade war continues; I suspect all my gains will be lost.

I will give Trump credit for getting a large number of youth and women engaged in politics, which may be his undoing if he runs again; assuming the Democratic Party can get its #^&#^&#^&#^& together. As an independent I vote based on the merits of the candidates and I can only hope the choices are far superior to the crap we had this past one.
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Lots of good points there, not much to vehemently disagree with.

"Trump and his family are getting richer by the day"

The Clintons and the Obamas will also get filthy rich from the presidency, but this is certainly different, and I agree he should have gone with the blind trust.

"the USA brand will be IMHO severely hurt by the actions of this administration."

Not sure I agree. And if we hurt our "brand" abroad but make things better at home, I may be OK with that. For example (making up a hypothetical), if outlawing abortion made the French hate us, I'd take that trade in a second.

"Jim I’d be carefully giving too much credit to Trump for the state of the economy, it was in pretty good shape when he took office"

Absolutely correct, it was in good shape. It's in better shape now, and part of that is because the businesses have confidence that he is a POTUS who doesn't thing "business" is bad, and he did away with unnecessary regulations, and gave us the tax cuts. I am of the opinion that those things helped. But your point is valid, the economy had a good tailwind when he took office.

" My retirement has been reduced significantly to a point most of the gains since he took office"

The markets are way up since he took office. 2017 was a great year, 2018 is flat.

Jim,
Why would you think I could explain Bill Clinton to you?

"You didn't read the article did you?"

Nope. So I'll repeat the question, what has been shown to reduce the disparity and is sustainable. Is the disparity 'bad'? If Bill Gates earns another million dollars today, why is that bad? He didn't steal it from anyone, no one else is a million dollars poorer, and he will pay some taxes on it, spend some, invest some, give some away. Those are all good things. The liberal fixation on the wealthy makes zero sense. The more wealthy people there are, the less the feds need to take form everyone else.

"Why would you think I could explain Bill Clinton to you?"

In other words, you have no response, because there is no reasonable response. But you aren't about to admit that.

Let me tell you this, when my beliefs cannot withstand the scrutiny of such a simple question, that's the day I re-think what I believe.

"You didn't read the article did you?"

Nope. So I'll repeat the question, what has been shown to reduce the disparity and is sustainable. Is the disparity 'bad'? If Bill Gates earns another million dollars today, why is that bad? He didn't steal it from anyone, no one else is a million dollars poorer, and he will pay some taxes on it, spend some, invest some, give some away. Those are all good things. The liberal fixation on the wealthy makes zero sense. The more wealthy people there are, the less the feds need to take form everyone else.

"Why would you think I could explain Bill Clinton to you?"

In other words, you have no response, because there is no reasonable response. But you aren't about to admit that.

Let me tell you this, when my beliefs cannot withstand the scrutiny of such a simple question, that's the day I re-think what I believe.
Jim,
You have a very narrow set of beliefs, Jim's right and everyone who disagrees with him is foolish and a liberal. Since you can't even read an article that might conflict with your beliefs of course you can withstand scrutiny in your mind because you have no reason to question what you know.
You are truly qualified as a member of the Super Elite
Bill Gates is perfectly capable of explaining the problems with income distribution but you likely won't read that either
http://fortune.com/2014/10/15/bill-gates-income-inequality/

Jim,
You have a very narrow set of beliefs, Jim's right and everyone who disagrees with him is foolish and a liberal. Since you can't even read an article that might conflict with your beliefs of course you can withstand scrutiny in your mind because you have no reason to question what you know.
You are truly qualified as a member of the Super Elite
Bill Gates is perfectly capable of explaining the problems with income distribution but you likely won't read that either
http://fortune.com/2014/10/15/bill-gates-income-inequality/

I have a very, very broad set of beliefs, in some cases I side with liberals ( gay marriage, death penalty). It’s notnthat my beliefs are narrow, it's that im honest and very fair.

Bill gates is a world class computer programmer, whybusbhe wualified to speak on income inequality? I asked YOU, why is it bad if bill gates, ornopeah winfrey, or George Clooney, get richer today? How does that hurt anybody? Answer - it doesn’t. How could you possibly make the case that it hurts anybody? He’s not stealing the wealth, he is creating it.
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I have a very, very broad set of beliefs, in some cases I side with liberals ( gay marriage, death penalty). It’s notnthat my beliefs are narrow, it's that im honest and very fair.
I'm sure you have black friends also.

Bill gates is a world class computer programmer, whybusbhe wualified to speak on income inequality? I asked YOU, why is it bad if bill gates, ornopeah winfrey, or George Clooney, get richer today? How does that hurt anybody? Answer - it doesn’t. How could you possibly make the case that it hurts anybody? He’s not stealing the wealth, he is creating it.
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If you read the article you might understand Bill Gate's stance on income inequality and what concerns him about it and it's effect on society. Now of course since he is only a computer programmer and not a reality TV star he doesn't really understand the situation.
However he is likely the second wealthiest man in the world, far wealthier than almost anyone else including Mr Magic.

If you read the article you might understand Bill Gate's stance on income inequality and what concerns him about it and it's effect on society. Now of course since he is only a computer programmer and not a reality TV star he doesn't really understand the situation.
However he is likely the second wealthiest man in the world, far wealthier than almost anyone else including Mr Magic.

I don't care what Bill Gates has to say about income inequality. I asked what Pete F thinks about income inequality. I asked Pete F why it's bad if Bill Gates, or Oprah Winfrey, or Meryl Streep, get richer today. How does that hurt anyone? Any chance you can answer in your own words? I've asked twice now. Any chance you can answer?

"I'm sure you have black friends also."

I said that I side with liberals on some big issues, because I know how to think for myself. I'd be curious to know, on what big issues, do you disagree with liberals? Let's see who is narrow minded and who is not?

"However he is likely the second wealthiest man in the world"

Which makes him amazingly successful at computer code. It says nothing about his knowledge of the causes and effects of income inequality. If he cared so much about income inequality, why is he still the second richest person in the world? Why not keep 250 million, and give the rest away?

Jim,
You have a very narrow set of beliefs, Jim's right and everyone who disagrees with him is foolish and a liberal. Since you can't even read an article that might conflict with your beliefs of course you can withstand scrutiny in your mind because you have no reason to question what you know.
You are truly qualified as a member of the Super Elite
Bill Gates is perfectly capable of explaining the problems with income distribution but you likely won't read that either
http://fortune.com/2014/10/15/bill-gates-income-inequality/

OK, I read it. Gates wants to stop taxing wealth, and tax consumption instead. I have no idea, none at all, what the pros and cons of that are. The article didn't get into it at all. I'm supposed to think it's a good idea, just because Bill Gates says so? How about convincing me with facts, logic, common sense, empirical evidence?

Trump and his family are getting richer by the day, promoting the family brands and properties with hundreds of visits to them; laughing all the way to the bank while stirring the media with one distraction after another. No blind trust for him, business interests remain unchanged, no tax returns to review, no threat by the Republican control to hold him accountable. Jim wants us to give the man credit when he does something worth praise, I will say for a guy that can screw thousands and thousands of people with one bankruptcy after another, they guy always finds someone or some country willing to fund the family business.

While the Trump brand is going to come out of this stronger then ever, the USA brand will be IMHO severely hurt by the actions of this administration. Jim I’d be carefully giving too much credit to Trump for the state of the economy, it was in pretty good shape when he took office. My retirement has been reduced significantly to a point most of the gains since he took office, have been erased and if this stupid poorly planned trade war continues; I suspect all my gains will be lost.

I will give Trump credit for getting a large number of youth and women engaged in politics, which may be his undoing if he runs again; assuming the Democratic Party can get its #^&#^&#^&#^& together. As an independent I vote based on the merits of the candidates and I can only hope the choices are far superior to the crap we had this past one.
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You have no idea what a hit the Trump brand took internationally since everybody found out he is a douche.
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You have no idea what a hit the Trump brand took internationally since everybody found out he is a douche.
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I think they are doing more than fine, the Trump brand isn’t suffering.
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I think they are doing more than fine, the Trump brand isn’t suffering.
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Ivanka (the daughter trump would totally bang if she wasn’t his daughter.. tremendous ass by ththe way) changed the name of her handbag and clothing line to 100% remove the name Trump.. I believe the Trump brand has been tarnished like the cast bronze turd that it is.
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Only a lefty loon would represent those pieces as being tied together.
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funny we were told by some to include the POTUS that Maxine Waters incited violence in her comments


Congressman Biggs (R) issued the following statement after introducing a resolution to censure and condemn Representative Maxine Waters:

Individuals have the right to debate their differences civilly, without fear of retribution. Unfortunately, Maxine Waters' comments condone public violence and encourage actions that jeopardize the safety and security of government officials and the American people. Those determined to undermine the progress and agenda of President Donald Trump, have taken it upon themselves to demonize their opposition.As Members of Congress we have the responsibility to lead by example and this rhetoric is simply unacceptable.”

Guess what he said about Trump calling the press the enemy of the people... you guessed it nada nothing funny how that works

A kook who was making threats against the paper, and investigated by the police for doing so, LONG before Trump thought of running. A former female employee of that paper, moved out of state because she felt so threatened by this guy. All long before Trump was a politician.

He was a madman, on record as being a madman. How dare you imply any connection whatsoever, to what Trump said? You have no shame, no honesty, none, zip, zilch.
Sure he was crazy but why crack now? Considering Trump's history of promoting violence, threatening individuals in the press, calling out the press as our countries greatest threat etc... etc... you can't decouple his actions as the most powerful person in the country with people that could be influenced. This doesn't mean Trump's responsible but it does put his behavior in tragic context. That he was back at it after the event is really deplorable.

now he is going after Harley ! True to form and in a very un POTUS fashion

Trump has threatened to impose higher taxes on the Milwaukee-based manufacturer in retaliation after it said on June 25 it was shifting some production for European-bound motorcycles from U.S. facilities to avoid tariffs being imposed by the European Union to counter U.S. duties imposed by Trump.

now he is going after Harley ! True to form and in a very un POTUS fashion

Trump has threatened to impose higher taxes on the Milwaukee-based manufacturer in retaliation after it said on June 25 it was shifting some production for European-bound motorcycles from U.S. facilities to avoid tariffs being imposed by the European Union to counter U.S. duties imposed by Trump.
He actually said this morning the Administration was talking to foreign makers about moving production to the US as a retaliatory measure. It was likely made up but this is like the twilight zone.

Guys, tighten up the chinstrap on your tinfoil hats,it's going to be a bumpy ride. No need to demonstrate who the lefty loons are.
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I think they are doing more than fine, the Trump brand isn’t suffering.
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You are wrong about that
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detbuch
9 out of 10 report the same story? Is there some collusion that they choose to reflect each other? Or are they motivated by the same bias?

Posted by wdmso
if there is 1 story reported on multiple stations Thats not Bias if their were 10 cars involved in the accident and its reported as such thats how News works.

Detbuch;
So what's the point of the metric? What's the significance? If 9 out of 10 report the story and 1 in 10 doesn't, what's the significance? If 1 out of ten reports a story and 9 out of 10 don't, what's the significance? What is the point of those ratios? Are we to assume that the outlier, because it is outnumbered, gets a negative rating?

And if similar or exact language is used in all the 9 out of 10 reports, is that just coincidence?


Detbuch:
Has anyone rated World Press Freedom? Does it have a bias?

wdmso:
is that how you dispute their information just call it Bias ? and the truth goes away ?? Facts are facts bias only help change the story in ones mind you demonstrate that skill often (see comment above )


Detbuch:
Bias is one of the metrics used by your source, World Press Freedom, to rate the various news outlets. If your source can evaluate a news organization by how biased it is, is it not fair to ask if World Press Freedom has a bias?

Detbuch:
You lie when you say "But for Trump and his supporters its all Fake lies made to discredit him..." It's not ALL fake news, but much of it is, including minimization or omission of positive news re Trump.

wdmso:
Now that is a Dear leader comment if i have ever heard one .. and here i thought right leaning people were against the every deserves a trophy .... if you need the media to show Trump in a positive image of report positive news of Trump . move to Russia or North Korea where they are very good at it. or have him actually do or say some positive things...

Detbuch
No. It's not as complicated or exaggerated as you make it. I was simply pointing out that you lie (or exaggerate) when you say that Trump, or his supporters claim that All news is fake.


wdmso:
Is there a personal or intellectual line Trump can not cross ?? or are you just willing to shelve morals, personal integrity, and comon decency to get a crumb that may fall off Trumps Table

Detbuch:
where do you get all that nonsense? Does your bias, as you put it, change the story in your mind?

wdmso:
reference to Franklin D. Roosevelt,

“Should we go back to 16 years? Congressman, can we have that extended? The last time I jokingly said that, the papers started saying 'he's got despotic tendencies!' No, I'm not looking to do it, unless you want to do it.”

“He's now president for life. President for life,” Trump said of Xi. “No, he's great. And look, he was able to do that. I think it's great. Maybe we'll have to give that a shot someday.”

Sorry its not hyperbole when it comes from the POTUS

Detbuch:
Why not? Why isn't it playful sarcasm? Having fun? You're such a self-righteous fussbudget. Relax. Enjoy. Life is short. Presidential terms are shorter.

Sure he was crazy but why crack now? Considering Trump's history of promoting violence, threatening individuals in the press, calling out the press as our countries greatest threat etc... etc... you can't decouple his actions as the most powerful person in the country with people that could be influenced. This doesn't mean Trump's responsible but it does put his behavior in tragic context. That he was back at it after the event is really deplorable.

"Sure he was crazy but why crack now? "

Oh, so all that matters is timing. Using that "logic", you must blame Obama for all the cops murdered after he lent legitimacy to cop-haters. Right?

Who knows why they snap when they do. Maybe it was Trump, but as of this moment, there is exactly zero evidence of that. But you don't care.

Trump tweets Iranian hardliner's unsubstantiated claim about Obama

Biased Fake story promoted by no other than Fox and the POTUS Shocking !!


He Read or watched or was told about A headline from Fox News, Sean Hannity, and others has been circulating for a couple of days now.

Donald Trump has tweeted an unsubstantiated claim from an hardline Iranian cleric and circulated by a news agency linked to the country’s Revolutionary Guard, that thousands of Iranians were granted US citizenship as part of the 2015 nuclear deal.

Trumps Tweet

Just out that the Obama Administration granted citizenship, during the terrible Iran Deal negotiation, to 2,500 Iranians - including to government officials. How big (and bad) is that?

8:03 AM - Jul 3, 2018

"Sure he was crazy but why crack now? "

Oh, so all that matters is timing. Using that "logic", you must blame Obama for all the cops murdered after he lent legitimacy to cop-haters. Right? your side did just that if you recall

Who knows why they snap when they do. Maybe it was Trump, but as of this moment, there is exactly zero evidence of that. But you don't care. I think he clearly said it wasn't his fault personally but he has set the table if you use the maxine waters standard your side has invoked regarding charged rhetoric it would Say it was Trumps Fault but since he has a R next to his name the Standard dosn't apply

the long lens of history gives us examples of whats normal and what is not .. and in our short history that long lens is very clear there has never but such a full frontal assault on Norms across the board

for our visual learners

We are ALL on the same side Wayne
USA
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for our visual learners

In the instances that Trump refers to, just about everything in that list you dug up is true. Especially by the standard of what you and others consider, when it comes to Trump, a lie.

We are ALL on the same side Wayne
USA
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I thought so as well but Jim keeps claiming he's on a different team.

It would be naive of me to think of you as down the middle but I would hope you want whatever is best for the country. Most likely we all agree that is best but we have different opinions on how to achieve that. Party lines and same old same old obscure the goal.
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We are ALL on the same side Wayne
USA
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
I agree
I would never not fish or have a drink with anyone here... but someone needs to tell the POTUS and his supporters what did the call the last guy divider and chief
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

It would be naive of me to think of you as down the middle but I would hope you want whatever is best for the country. Most likely we all agree that is best but we have different opinions on how to achieve that. Party lines and same old same old obscure the goal.
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It wouldn't be naive of you at all to think of me a down the middle. There really isn't a hard progressive voice on the board so the discussion if you can call it that is shifted to the right.

I thought so as well but Jim keeps claiming he's on a different team.

I'm not going to say something as patently dishonest and absurd, as claiming I'm in the middle. And neither should you. I'm much, much closer to the middle than you are, I side with liberals on some big issues, and I have bashed Trump without mercy. You side with conservatives on any big issues? Were you ever brutally critical of Obama?

It wouldn't be naive of you at all to think of me a down the middle. There really isn't a hard progressive voice on the board so the discussion if you can call it that is shifted to the right.

Perhaps you consider your brand of commentary progressive Spence. That is fine if you truly believe it to be but it shows a complete lack of touch with reality.
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I agree
I would never not fish or have a drink with anyone here... but someone needs to tell the POTUS and his supporters what did the call the last guy divider and chief
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"I would never not fish or have a drink with anyone here"

My favorite sentence ever, in this forum, and I mean that with 100% sincerity.

"someone needs to tell the POTUS and his supporters what did the call the last guy divider and chief
"

I thought Obama was by far, the most divisive POTUS we had ever had. Trump is more overtly offensive and probably more polarizing, I don't think that can be denied.

Trump's treatment of women (not much different than Bill Clinton), the way he talks about women, and his criticism of McCain for getting shot down and captured? Horrible.

Obama's treatment of white cops? Equally horrible and offensive, in my opinion.

Again, the media, in support for the democrat party, makes it very difficult for the GOP to nominate a true gentleman, look at how they treated McCain and Romney. A Republican of character will never, ever be tread as such. So it would be political suicide to nominate someone who isn't willing, and very able, to fight back ruthlessly, and to hit below the belt when necessary. I love it when Trump puts on the brass knuckles and goes after someone who deserves it, like Maxine Waters or MSNBC. I don't like it when he does it to someone who doesn't deserve it.

If the media on both sides would agree to clean it up, there would never be a political need for Trump. The GOP tried, they tried with McCain and Romney. It didn't work.

If you want to see what I mean, watch the confirmation hearings for whoever Trump nominates for SCOTUS. It will be the ugliest political theater ever, I predict.

Perhaps you consider your brand of commentary progressive Spence. That is fine if you truly believe it to be but it shows a complete lack of touch with reality.
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Maybe I'm just well read.

It seems you only read half the story. Your hubris floweth over.
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I thought Obama was by far, the most divisive POTUS we had ever had. Trump is more overtly offensive and probably more polarizing, I don't think that can be denied.
Obama's divisiveness was largely driven by a large number of people who disliked him because he's black.

Again, the media, in support for the democrat party, makes it very difficult for the GOP to nominate a true gentleman, look at how they treated McCain and Romney.
McCain would have like won if he didn't pick a running mate that was an instant SNL punching bag and tell everybody things are great when the recession was clearly coming. The Romney race was pretty close but it's hard to unseat an incumbent when things are going pretty well. But sure, blame the media, blame blame blame.

If you want to see what I mean, watch the confirmation hearings for whoever Trump nominates for SCOTUS. It will be the ugliest political theater ever, I predict.
I don't think they'll be able to upstage the GOP's treatment of the FBI last week. My prediction is that it will be pretty civil.

It seems you only read half the story. Your hubris floweth over.
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Maybe I'm just relaying the important points.

Obama's divisiveness was largely driven by a large number of people who disliked him because he's black.


McCain would have like won if he didn't pick a running mate that was an instant SNL punching bag and tell everybody things are great when the recession was clearly coming. The Romney race was pretty close but it's hard to unseat an incumbent when things are going pretty well. But sure, blame the media, blame blame blame.


I don't think they'll be able to upstage the GOP's treatment of the FBI last week. My prediction is that it will be pretty civil.

"Obama's divisiveness was largely driven by a large number of people who disliked him because he's black. "

That crap, does more for Trump, than if you donated a million bucks to his campaign. Despite what liberals believe, it's actually possible to be both black and an azzhole. Obama was a world-class azzhole IMHO, and skin color has zip to do with why I feel that way.

"McCain would have like won if he didn't pick a running mate that was an instant SNL punching bag "

Absolutely wrong. After he picked Palin (before she imploded), he leapt ahead of Obama in the polls and stayed there until the economy crashed. After that , Lincoln could have been running with Reagan as his VP, and the GOP would have lost. You are wrong on the historical facts there

"The Romney race was pretty close but it's hard to unseat an incumbent when things are going pretty well"

True. Even harder when the media is portraying Romney as a heartless plutocrat because he's rich, and even better, a sexist because he - GASP! - kept resumes of talented women in a binder. So Bill Clinton is a feminist hero, but Mitt Romney is a sexist. That just makes all kinds of sense. And it's that "logic", that is why your party is in complete disarray right now.

A year after Obama won, the GOP obviously hated his agenda, but they had a message, a plan, and a way to communicate it (the Tea Party). And it worked spectacularly well, look at where the GOP is right now, compared to where they were on the day of Obamas inauguration. I cannot believe the comeback.

I don't see the Democrats - even with Trump's help - making that kind of comeback. If the nutjob who won the democrat house primary in NYC is the future of the democratic party, the GOP doesn't need me to send any more donations, they are all set. America likes their presidents (even jerks like Trump) to be moderate. We don't, in the aggregate, like radical liberals. Unless they are black and hip and very smooth talking and very likeable.

"But sure, blame the media, blame blame blame"

Have you seen the medias favorability ratings? I'm not making it all up.

"My prediction is that it will be pretty civil"

Tell that to Chris Matthews, who has been the Twilight Zone for a week. It can't be civil, because the liberal wing of the party is (1) growing, and (2) demanding action, and the moderates in the party can't afford to look weak in the eyes of the militant liberals. Imagine the no-win situation that moderate democrats senators are in, who are up for re-election in November, in states that Trump won big, like WV and ND. What are they supposed to do? If they support the nominee, the liberals go berserk, if they oppose the nominee, many of their state voters will go berserk. That's a pickle.

Maybe I'm just well read.

If by well read, you mean you can recite both the Communist Manifesto, and Chairman Mao's Little Red Book, I agree.

If by well read, you mean you can recite both the Communist Manifesto, and Chairman Mao's Little Red Book, I agree.

If it was "My New Order", then would you approve?

If it was "My New Order", then would you approve?

Depends, because I don't know what that is.

"I would never not fish or have a drink with anyone here"

My favorite sentence ever, in this forum, and I mean that with 100% sincerity.

"someone needs to tell the POTUS and his supporters what did the call the last guy divider and chief
"

I thought Obama was by far, the most divisive POTUS we had ever had. Trump is more overtly offensive and probably more polarizing, I don't think that can be denied.

Trump's treatment of women (not much different than Bill Clinton), the way he talks about women, and his criticism of McCain for getting shot down and captured? Horrible.

Obama's treatment of white cops? Equally horrible and offensive, in my opinion.

Again, the media, in support for the democrat party, makes it very difficult for the GOP to nominate a true gentleman, look at how they treated McCain and Romney. A Republican of character will never, ever be tread as such. So it would be political suicide to nominate someone who isn't willing, and very able, to fight back ruthlessly, and to hit below the belt when necessary. I love it when Trump puts on the brass knuckles and goes after someone who deserves it, like Maxine Waters or MSNBC. I don't like it when he does it to someone who doesn't deserve it.

If the media on both sides would agree to clean it up, there would never be a political need for Trump. The GOP tried, they tried with McCain and Romney. It didn't work.

If you want to see what I mean, watch the confirmation hearings for whoever Trump nominates for SCOTUS. It will be the ugliest political theater ever, I predict.


why because they stole the last one or #2 they are historically always ugly or 3 a little bit of both

divisive tending to cause disagreement or hostility between people. you think thats not Trump ??

why because they stole the last one or #2 they are historically always ugly or 3 a little bit of both

divisive tending to cause disagreement or hostility between people. you think thats not Trump ??

"why"

Because they hate not getting their way, they really hate losing to Trump, and they are terrified (despite what both Spence and I believe) that Roe V Wade is in danger.

"they are historically always ugly "

Only in recent history. The partisan ugliness started with Bork, IMO. I can't deny that what the GOP did in 2016 wasn't partisan. But the American people gave the senate control to the Republicans, and it stands to reason they didn't do that so the GOP would let the court slant left. Given that the GOP kept the senate in the subsequent election, it would appear that the people weren't all that upset with what the GOP did.

"divisive tending to cause disagreement or hostility between people. you think thats not Trump "

Of course Trump fans those flames with his idiocy. But he didn't come close to starting it. It started when Bush won re-election, then it got really ugly when despite democrat claims that we'd be getting out of Iraq, Bush got them to support the surge, and it worked. Bush, who they claimed was an idiot, made them all look like morons, and they lost their minds (leading to the phrase 'Bush Derangement Syndrome'), and it's been ugly (on both sides) since.

It's ugly on both sides, but not equally ugly in my opinion Often, the GOP wants to discuss policy. Often, the liberals want to shut them up and demonize them.

If by well read, you mean you can recite both the Communist Manifesto, and Chairman Mao's Little Red Book, I agree.
Can't say either have ever been on my reading list. Just looked at my bookshelf and for political books it's pretty 50:50.

Because they hate not getting their way, they really hate losing to Trump, and they are terrified (despite what both Spence and I believe) that Roe V Wade is in danger.
Democrats would be remiss in their duty to not use the issue to rally voters for the mid-terms.

Only in recent history. The partisan ugliness started with Bork, IMO. I can't deny that what the GOP did in 2016 wasn't partisan. But the American people gave the senate control to the Republicans, and it stands to reason they didn't do that so the GOP would let the court slant left. Given that the GOP kept the senate in the subsequent election, it would appear that the people weren't all that upset with what the GOP did.
There has always been some level of partisan bickering. The big divide we see today wasn't because of Bork, it was the Republican effort to create a permanent majority via the K Street project.

Of course Trump fans those flames with his idiocy. But he didn't come close to starting it. It started when Bush won re-election, then it got really ugly when despite democrat claims that we'd be getting out of Iraq, Bush got them to support the surge, and it worked. Bush, who they claimed was an idiot, made them all look like morons, and they lost their minds (leading to the phrase 'Bush Derangement Syndrome'), and it's been ugly (on both sides) since.
The issue with Bush started the moment the people realized he took our country to war in Iraq under a weak and dubious justification.

It's ugly on both sides, but not equally ugly in my opinion Often, the GOP wants to discuss policy. Often, the liberals want to shut them up and demonize them.
Both parties play games. What I've seen the last 20 years is the GOP favors conspiracy theories over facts. You have a FOX News party, the party of Trump.

Democrats would be remiss in their duty to not use the issue to rally voters for the mid-terms.


There has always been some level of partisan bickering. The big divide we see today wasn't because of Bork, it was the Republican effort to create a permanent majority via the K Street project.


The issue with Bush started the moment the people realized he took our country to war in Iraq under a weak and dubious justification.


Both parties play games. What I've seen the last 20 years is the GOP favors conspiracy theories over facts. You have a FOX News party, the party of Trump.

Can I remind you if the senators who voted for that war? Clinton, Kerry, Biden, Edwards, etc...they voted to invade, based on the same intelligence bush saw.

It was when the war became unpopular, and only then, that they all blamed bush for deceiving us into war.
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Remember what the "experts" in the news told us...............
and now they are crying about being called fake news?
The press may or may not be the enemy.... but they are wrong a lot.

https://youtu.be/G87UXIH8Lzo?t=156

Remember what the "experts" in the news told us...............
and now they are crying about being called fake news?
The press may or may not be the enemy.... but they are wrong a lot.

https://youtu.be/G87UXIH8Lzo?t=156

putting money on a losing horse (making a predication) is Hardly the same as the press being accused of willfully Lying on AKA Fake news

I agree
I would never not fish or have a drink with anyone here... Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Sorry, but I don't think I can say the same.

I am hoping Scott takes me surfcasting in Newport this year and I'm waiting for Chris to invite me out to catch some tuna!

putting money on a losing horse (making a predication) is Hardly the same as the press being accused of willfully Lying on AKA Fake news

It's not so much willful lying, it's more of a willful decision to ignore the good and focus (and exaggerate to a ridiculous degree) the bad.

If you watch MSNBC or CNN, you'd think he unilaterally declared the constitution null and void.

How much time are the networks dedicating to how healthy the economy is right now? How much air time would this economy have received, if Hilary was POTUS?

When covering the separation of families at the border, how much time was spent covering the fact that families were also separated via immigration law, when Obama was POTUS? They clearly wanted their viewers to think Trump invented this.

Saw you have a sea hunt 232, those are so awesome. Looked seriously at a 22 once, loved it.

The effectiveness of fake news framing the narrative is apparent with this business of saying Trump asserts that the "Press" is the enemy of the people. Fake news changes Trump's assertion that "Fake News" is the enemy to "the Press" is the enemy.

How much time are the networks dedicating to how healthy the economy is right now? How much air time would this economy have received, if Hilary was POTUS?
There are several dedicated financial networks that cover the economy. I see mainstream outlets update on the numbers good or bad all the time.

When covering the separation of families at the border, how much time was spent covering the fact that families were also separated via immigration law, when Obama was POTUS? They clearly wanted their viewers to think Trump invented this.
I've seen plenty of reporting about Obama era policy, mostly to draw the differences. The debacle we're seeing today is absolutely a Trump invention and it's only getting worse.

The effectiveness of fake news framing the narrative is apparent with this business of saying Trump asserts that the "Press" is the enemy of the people. Fake news changes Trump's assertion that "Fake News" is the enemy to "the Press" is the enemy.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH :1poke:

putting money on a losing horse (making a predication) is Hardly the same as the press being accused of willfully Lying on AKA Fake news

Unreliable......misleading.......slanted......bias ed.....mistaken.....wrong????
Fake ....whether intentional or not....
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Unreliable......misleading.......slanted......bias ed.....mistaken.....wrong????
Fake ....whether intentional or not....
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

posting a viewed of a bunch of people predicting something (and they even used the word prediction) is not fake news.

Your use of the word wrong is the only correct word you used.

There are several dedicated financial networks that cover the economy. I see mainstream outlets update on the numbers good or bad all the time.


I've seen plenty of reporting about Obama era policy, mostly to draw the differences. The debacle we're seeing today is absolutely a Trump invention and it's only getting worse.

"I see mainstream outlets update on the numbers good or bad all the time."

So if a CNN host is comparing Trump to Hitler (except more of a racist and a sexist), then as long as there is a ticker going across the bottom of the screen, that's balanced. Got it.

"it's only getting worse"

For your side, I agree. Prepare yourself for the likelihood Monday, that when he announces his SCOTUS nominee, it won't be Merrick Garland or Harry Belafante or Pol Pot, or anyone else you'd have on your list.

posting a viewed of a bunch of people predicting something (and they even used the word prediction) is not fake news.

Your use of the word wrong is the only correct word you used.

I didn't think Trump had a prayer, either.

That's not the clip I'd show, to illustrate the bias.

His MS-13 quote is a perfect example. He clearly meant that MS13 are animals, but several media outlets couldn't wait to report that he said all Mexicans were animals.

Or when he was campaigning, and he said that Mexican immigrants "are" drug dealers and rapists. In that same speech, he said that many were very nice people, so obviously he wasn't saying that 100% of them are rapists and drug dealers. But that's how it got spun.

They can't be fair or objective, they just can't. They will do anything to make him out to be a cartoon villain.

I didn't think Trump had a prayer, either.

That's not the clip I'd show, to illustrate the bias.

His MS-13 quote is a perfect example. He clearly meant that MS13 are animals, but several media outlets couldn't wait to report that he said all Mexicans were animals.

Or when he was campaigning, and he said that Mexican immigrants "are" drug dealers and rapists. In that same speech, he said that many were very nice people, so obviously he wasn't saying that 100% of them are rapists and drug dealers. But that's how it got spun.

They can't be fair or objective, they just can't. They will do anything to make him out to be a cartoon villain.
This MS13 quote?
The previous administration enacted an open-door policy to illegal migrants from Central America. "Welcome in. Come in, please, please."

As a result, MS-13 surged into the country and scoured, and just absolutely destroyed, so much in front of it. New arrivals came in and they were all made recruits of each other, and they fought with each other, and then they fought outside of each other. And it got worse and worse, and we've turned that back.

In the three years before I took office, more than 150,000 unaccompanied alien minors arrived at the border and were released all throughout our country into United States’ communities -- at a tremendous monetary cost to local taxpayers and also a great cost to life and safety.

Nearly 4,000 from this wave were released into Suffolk County -- congratulations -- including seven who are now indicted for murder. You know about that.

In Washington, D.C. region, at least 42 alien minors from the border surge have been recently implicated in MS-13-related violence, including 19 charged in killings or attempted killings.

You say, what happened to the old days where people came into this country, they worked and they worked and they worked, and they had families, and they paid taxes, and they did all sorts of things, and their families got stronger, and they were closely knit? We don't see that.

Failure to enforce our immigration laws had predictable results: drugs, gangs and violence. But that’s all changing now.
And Mexicans
Thank you. It's true, and these are the best and the finest. When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.
Are you claiming that he is not trying to spin opinion?

This MS13 quote?
The previous administration enacted an open-door policy to illegal migrants from Central America. "Welcome in. Come in, please, please."

As a result, MS-13 surged into the country and scoured, and just absolutely destroyed, so much in front of it. New arrivals came in and they were all made recruits of each other, and they fought with each other, and then they fought outside of each other. And it got worse and worse, and we've turned that back.

In the three years before I took office, more than 150,000 unaccompanied alien minors arrived at the border and were released all throughout our country into United States’ communities -- at a tremendous monetary cost to local taxpayers and also a great cost to life and safety.

Nearly 4,000 from this wave were released into Suffolk County -- congratulations -- including seven who are now indicted for murder. You know about that.

In Washington, D.C. region, at least 42 alien minors from the border surge have been recently implicated in MS-13-related violence, including 19 charged in killings or attempted killings.

You say, what happened to the old days where people came into this country, they worked and they worked and they worked, and they had families, and they paid taxes, and they did all sorts of things, and their families got stronger, and they were closely knit? We don't see that.

Failure to enforce our immigration laws had predictable results: drugs, gangs and violence. But that’s all changing now.
And Mexicans
Thank you. It's true, and these are the best and the finest. When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.
Are you claiming that he is not trying to spin opinion?

"This MS13 quote?"

No, that wasn't it. He was talking about immigrants in general, then he honed in on MS13 and called them animals, and many outlets reported that he referred to all Mexicans as "animals".

"Are you claiming that he is not trying to spin opinion"

Of course he was spinning an opinion, and I'll concede that his opinion would probably disqualify him to ever be the US ambassador to Mexico. But he obviously wasn't bashing all of them. By and large, Mexico isn't exporting their best engineers, scientists, and business people to the US.

You are trying to spin every utterance into somehting for more sinister than it is. That's exactly what I'm talking about.

He's not a good man, not even close. But he's not what the media is portraying him as, either. Not only is it what they're doing dishonest, these liberals are still too stupid to see that it helps him. You can fill the Pacific Ocean with valid criticism of the guy, why do you need to fabricate stuff, especially when that has the opposite effect you seek? I don't get it.

When Michelle Obama said that she wasn't proud of this country until Barack got the nomination, liberals spent weeks defending her, saying, "well yes she said that, but what she really meant was..."

Can't have it both ways.

"This MS13 quote?"

No, that wasn't it. He was talking about immigrants in general, then he honed in on MS13 and called them animals, and many outlets reported that he referred to all Mexicans as "animals".

"Are you claiming that he is not trying to spin opinion"

Of course he was spinning an opinion, and I'll concede that his opinion would probably disqualify him to ever be the US ambassador to Mexico. But he obviously wasn't bashing all of them. By and large, Mexico isn't exporting their best engineers, scientists, and business people to the US. Why would they?

You are trying to spin every utterance into somehting for more sinister than it is. That's exactly what I'm talking about.
He would not be a very good con man if that was his rhetoric, it is far more subtle than that.

He's not a good man, not even close. But he's not what the media is portraying him as, either. Not only is it what they're doing dishonest, these liberals are still too stupid to see that it helps him. You can fill the Pacific Ocean with valid criticism of the guy, why do you need to fabricate stuff, especially when that has the opposite effect you seek? I don't get it.

When Michelle Obama said that she wasn't proud of this country until Barack got the nomination, liberals spent weeks defending her, saying, "well yes she said that, but what she really meant was..."

Can't have it both ways.
This time it's but Michelle...........
I think maybe you should read the transcript.
Trump’s remarks came during a May 16 immigration roundtable discussion that touched on so-called sanctuary cities, MS-13 gang members, the federal "catch and release" practice, and policies in California related to the detention of immigrants. Participants included cabinet members, California sheriffs and other elected officials.

Margaret Mims, Fresno County Sheriff: "Thank you, Mr. President. You know, sheriffs in California are now in an untenable position when it comes to trying to figure out — now, we have state law, we have federal laws, and here we are stuck in the middle. Sheriffs, especially, because most of us run our county jails.

"When there became a legal challenge to the 48-hour holds for ICE, it was very frustrating for us. So what I did is I invited ICE to put their officers in my jails so they're able to do their work. We didn't have the staffing to be able to help figure out who they wanted to talk to or didn't. I said, come on in, work with our people to keep our community safe. Two weeks later, Mr. President, Kate Steinle was murdered.

"Now, I wasn't the only sheriff to do that. Sheriff Youngblood did, Sheriff Christianson. And it was perfect — because we didn't have to take our time, with our staff, to do, to do anything. ICE was in there doing their work in a safe, controlled, environment. And then, the initiatives started happening -- the TRUST Act, the TRUTH Act, and finally, SB 54, the Values Act. And that is causing us all kinds of turmoil.
"So here we are, stuck in the middle, trying to decide. We have federal law, we have state law. And that's why I welcomed Attorney General Sessions's lawsuit, because that will provide us the clarity that we need and direction that we need. What do we do? Because here we are.

"And I appreciated Mr. Homan and ICE. We had a great relationship; we still do. But now ICE is the only law enforcement agency that cannot use our databases to find the bad guys. They cannot come in and talk to people in our jail, unless they reach a certain threshold. They can't do all kinds of things that other law enforcement agencies can do. And it's really put us in a very bad position."

Trump: "It's a disgrace. Okay? It's a disgrace."

Mims: "It's a disgrace."

Trump: "And we're suing on that, and we're working hard, and I think it will all come together, because people want it to come together. It's so ridiculous. The concept that we're even talking about is ridiculous. We'll take care of it, Margaret. We'll win."

Mims: "Thank you. There could be an MS-13 gang member I know about — if they don't reach a certain threshold, I cannot tell ICE about it."
Trump: "We have people coming into the country, or trying to come in — and we're stopping a lot of them — but we're taking people out of the country. You wouldn't believe how bad these people are. These aren't people. These are animals. And we're taking them out of the country at a level and at a rate that's never happened before. And because of the weak laws, they come in fast, we get them, we release them, we get them again, we bring them out. It's crazy.

The dumbest laws, as I said before, the dumbest laws on immigration in the world. So we're going to take care of it, Margaret. We'll get it done."

This time it's but Michelle...........
I think maybe you should read the transcript.
Trump’s remarks came during a May 16 immigration roundtable discussion that touched on so-called sanctuary cities, MS-13 gang members, the federal "catch and release" practice, and policies in California related to the detention of immigrants. Participants included cabinet members, California sheriffs and other elected officials.

Margaret Mims, Fresno County Sheriff: "Thank you, Mr. President. You know, sheriffs in California are now in an untenable position when it comes to trying to figure out — now, we have state law, we have federal laws, and here we are stuck in the middle. Sheriffs, especially, because most of us run our county jails.

"When there became a legal challenge to the 48-hour holds for ICE, it was very frustrating for us. So what I did is I invited ICE to put their officers in my jails so they're able to do their work. We didn't have the staffing to be able to help figure out who they wanted to talk to or didn't. I said, come on in, work with our people to keep our community safe. Two weeks later, Mr. President, Kate Steinle was murdered.

"Now, I wasn't the only sheriff to do that. Sheriff Youngblood did, Sheriff Christianson. And it was perfect — because we didn't have to take our time, with our staff, to do, to do anything. ICE was in there doing their work in a safe, controlled, environment. And then, the initiatives started happening -- the TRUST Act, the TRUTH Act, and finally, SB 54, the Values Act. And that is causing us all kinds of turmoil.
"So here we are, stuck in the middle, trying to decide. We have federal law, we have state law. And that's why I welcomed Attorney General Sessions's lawsuit, because that will provide us the clarity that we need and direction that we need. What do we do? Because here we are.

"And I appreciated Mr. Homan and ICE. We had a great relationship; we still do. But now ICE is the only law enforcement agency that cannot use our databases to find the bad guys. They cannot come in and talk to people in our jail, unless they reach a certain threshold. They can't do all kinds of things that other law enforcement agencies can do. And it's really put us in a very bad position."

Trump: "It's a disgrace. Okay? It's a disgrace."

Mims: "It's a disgrace."

Trump: "And we're suing on that, and we're working hard, and I think it will all come together, because people want it to come together. It's so ridiculous. The concept that we're even talking about is ridiculous. We'll take care of it, Margaret. We'll win."

Mims: "Thank you. There could be an MS-13 gang member I know about — if they don't reach a certain threshold, I cannot tell ICE about it."
Trump: "We have people coming into the country, or trying to come in — and we're stopping a lot of them — but we're taking people out of the country. You wouldn't believe how bad these people are. These aren't people. These are animals. And we're taking them out of the country at a level and at a rate that's never happened before. And because of the weak laws, they come in fast, we get them, we release them, we get them again, we bring them out. It's crazy.

The dumbest laws, as I said before, the dumbest laws on immigration in the world. So we're going to take care of it, Margaret. We'll get it done."

"This time it's but Michelle"

So if I want to point out obvious hypocrisy, how do I do so, without pointing to clear examples where democrats received better treatment? It's very convenient for you, that you put your fingers in your ears and yell "LA LA LA" whenever anyone brings up the inconsistent way in which the Obamas were treated. Your problem is, others see it and are aware of it. Just because you choose to ignore it, doesn't mean voters in swing states will do so.

As to your post of what Trump said...any idiot would read that, and see that he is calling MS-13 animals. But liberal media outlets, and liberal talking heads like Pelosi, claimed he referred to all Mexicans as "animals". It's a joke. The person who spoke just before Trump, made an explicit, specific, crystal clear reference to MS-13.

This is one reason why he won.

As to your post of what Trump said...any idiot would read that, and see that he is calling MS-13 animals. But liberal media outlets, and liberal talking heads like Pelosi, claimed he referred to all Mexicans as "animals". It's a joke. The person who spoke just before Trump, made an explicit, specific, crystal clear reference to MS-13.
And Trump then speaks in vague terms that align with so many previous comments broad brushing all immigrants with racist imagery. He can't have it both ways.

The whole MS-13 argument is intentionally blown way out of proportion anyway as is his whole immigration argument. The hyperbole combined with the bigotry is foul and diminishes from what we should be doing to provide security in spirit with American values.

I agree with Jeff so long as they come here through the proper procedure.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device