This is really starting to look like a bad, a very bad, SNL skit.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/09/12/hurricane-florence-washington-post-declares-trump-is-complicit-for-dangerous-storm.html

Even if you grant that human behavior plays a major role in determining the frequency and severity of these storms, I sit really Trump's fault? Not China or India?

Bonkers. The left has gone absolutely bonkers.

Considering trump pulled us out of the Paris climate agreement, I’m happy to put blame on trump for any climate related issues. Did you know he had seawalls built on his golf course in Scotland to protect against sea level rise? Isn’t that the most hypocritical thing you can think of? :rotfl:
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Good lord, a news paper writes an attention getting headline!

The opinion piece is right on and sends a very important message.

Maybe the hurricane is God’s way of punishing the evangelical south for supporting such a sleezebag. 😂😂😆😆
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Considering trump pulled us out of the Paris climate agreement, I’m happy to put blame on trump for any climate related issues.


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and there you have it :uhuh:

and there you have it :uhuh:

Have you joined the flat earth society yet?
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Have you joined the flat earth society yet?
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Nebe, if the left had any accuracy on this issue, why haven't any of their dire predictions come true?

Nebe, if the left had any accuracy on this issue, why haven't any of their dire predictions come true?

Paging RI Rockhound....
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Paging RI Rockhound....
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And why does the high priest of the movement, Al Gore, have one of the largest environmental footprints ever?

As to the predictions, I'm exaggerating, but wasn't North Dakota supposed to be exporting pineapples by now?

Pour a ton of money into the science and research. A ton. But I don't feel the need to sell my house and raise my kids in a yurt, while the only thing Al Gore has unplugged in the last 25 years, is his treadmill, ba-dum-bum-pssh.

And why does the high priest of the movement, Al Gore, have one of the largest environmental footprints ever?

As to the predictions, I'm exaggerating, but wasn't North Dakota supposed to be exporting pineapples by now?

Pour a ton of money into the science and research. A ton. But I don't feel the need to sell my house and raise my kids in a yurt, while the only thing Al Gore has unplugged in the last 25 years, is his treadmill, ba-dum-bum-pssh.

Do you believe that after you die, you will have a better life than you do now?
If so... you’ve been duped as well.
I see a strong correlation between climate change deniers being religious and vice versa.
#sad
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Do you believe that after you die, you will have a better life than you do now?
If so... you’ve been duped as well.
I see a strong correlation between climate change deniers being religious and vice versa.
#sad
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"Do you believe that after you die, you will have a better life than you do now?"

Yes.

"If so... you’ve been duped as well. "

We'll see. I'd rather hold my view (and behave accordingly) and be wrong, than be an atheist, and find out I'm wrong when it's too late. I'm confident. If we meet on the other side, you can tell me how wrong you were.

"I see a strong correlation between climate change deniers being religious and vice versa."

I don't deny it's changing. But before I impose hardship on me and my family, I need to see more facts. There are way too many unknowns, we have no idea what the atmosphere's ability is to absorb all the crap that we dump. We don't know what effect the oceans have. The models are based almost entirely on assumptions, which explains why the outputs of those models (for example, Philadelphia soon being oceanfront) haven't come true.

Spend the money, do the research. I like nature and the planet at least as much as some Manhattan dilatant who lives in a condo. And I'm very persuadable by facts and common sense. But not by liberal hysteria.

Do you believe that after you die, you will have a better life than you do now?
If so... you’ve been duped as well.

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I plan to battle climate change in the afterlife....guess you won't be much help :angel:

Good luck with that. I disagree with you but respect your beliefs.
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Trump is no more complicit in Florence than I am, but the moves he is making and his denial that climate change is happening, will not lessen the impact. Unless you just never ever watch national geographic or any of the outstanding documentaries that have air and documented what is happening, then keep believing climate change is a hoax. It won't impact you, it might not impact your children, but there will be significant implications down the road if the ice packs and glaciers continue to melt. Where do you think all the fing water is going?

Trump is complicit in the poor effort in the after math of Hugo in Puerto Rico, oh wait I'm sorry it was outstanding A+ job, he will likely do better in the Carolina's because they aren't some dirt bag island he doesn't give a sh*t about.

I don't deny it's changing. But before I impose hardship on me and my family, I need to see more facts. There are way too many unknowns, we have no idea what the atmosphere's ability is to absorb all the crap that we dump. We don't know what effect the oceans have. The models are based almost entirely on assumptions, which explains why the outputs of those models (for example, Philadelphia soon being oceanfront) haven't come true.
Good luck on the facts, it's why we have scientific methods. Models aren't based on assumptions as much as empirically validated hypothesis. Any way the science isn't and never will be perfect but there is consensus that the human impact is significant.

Trump is no more complicit in Florence than I am



profound :hee:

Good luck on the facts, it's why we have scientific methods. Models aren't based on assumptions as much as empirically validated hypothesis. Any way the science isn't and never will be perfect but there is consensus that the human impact is significant.

what a pile of crap :kewl:

Nobody has to live in a yurt.
The thing we need to do for example is when we build a new house or renovate an old one is be willing to invest in energy conservation measures. People ask what is the ROI for the upgraded insulation package, it could be five or ten years. But they never ask about the ROI on the granite countertops.
This takes time and money, other countries are making the investment and we will be behind again. Money we waste on energy is money we can’t invest
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Good luck on the facts, it's why we have scientific methods. Models aren't based on assumptions as much as empirically validated hypothesis. Any way the science isn't and never will be perfect but there is consensus that the human impact is significant.

well given that many of the outcomes predicted by that community’s scientific method have not come true, at what point is it appropriate to conclude that they don’t have a lot of credibility?
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well given that many of the outcomes predicted by that community’s scientific method have not come true, at what point is it appropriate to conclude that they don’t have a lot of credibility?
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Jim,
I am not wading into this again with you. We have rehashed these points too many times.

Can you please point to the scientific community's* (NOT AL GORE) predictions of what you speak? (*Scientific community, meaning a published scientific study, not a movie or a random blog)...

Nobody has to live in a yurt.
The thing we need to do for example is when we build a new house or renovate an old one is be willing to invest in energy conservation measures. People ask what is the ROI for the upgraded insulation package, it could be five or ten years. But they never ask about the ROI on the granite countertops.
This takes time and money, other countries are making the investment and we will be behind again. Money we waste on energy is money we can’t invest
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most people can’t afford solar panels or geothermal systems. i have panels at my house because i wanted to do it, but it’s stupudly expensive.
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Jim,
I am not wading into this again with you. We have rehashed these points too many times.

Can you please point to the scientific community's* (NOT AL GORE) predictions of what you speak? (*Scientific community, meaning a published scientific study, not a movie or a random blog)...

i can’t say that i can point i a scientific paper that has predicted disaster. i’m responding to the hysterics i seenon tv. but right around the time i was born, the consensus was that the earth was cooling and we needed to act to stop that. then it was global warming. then it switched to climate change. they can’t even decide what’s happening, let alone figure out the causes or what the effects might be.

you don’t care more about the environment than i do, i promise. but we need to acquire additional knowledge, and rely a bit less on wild speculative assumptions, before we disrupt people’s lives, before we tell third world nations that they can’t have heat and air conditioning and cars like we do. and we need to figure out why the hell the alternative energy sources are still so stupudly expensive. that’s what i don’t understand. why is it 30k to cover my roof with solar panels? i leased, butbthats what it would have cost to buy. that price isn’t coming down.
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Jim,


Can you please point to the scientific community's* (NOT AL GORE) predictions of what you speak? (*Scientific community, meaning a published scientific study, not a movie or a random blog)...

settled science backed by consensus....yawn...is al gore still alive?

here's a recent one..... .5 degrees of warming will cause large increases in deaths worldwide....

“Our projections suggest that large increases in temperature-related deaths could be limited in most regions if warming was kept below 2°C,” explains Ana Maria Vicedo-Cabrera, the first author of the study. “Under extreme changes in climate, large parts of the world could experience a dramatic increase in excess mortality due to heat. This would not be balanced by decreases in cold-related deaths. Efforts to limit the increase in global temperature to below 1.5°C could provide additional benefits in tropical or arid regions, including the most populous and often poorest countries.”

Vicedo-Cabrera, A. M. et al (2018). Temperature-mortality impacts under and beyond Paris Agreement climate change scenarios, Climatic Change Letters DOI: 10.1007/s10584-018-2274-3

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10584-018-2274-3


if we just spend enough money we can hold the global temperature down....

I'm leaving at this Jim. Too busy to engage in pointless arguments on the internet.
1. The global cooling argument from the 70's is way over played (see this link for more on that) https://www.skepticalscience.com/What-1970s-science-said-about-global-cooling.html (https://www.skepticalscience.com/What-1970s-science-said-about-global-cooling.html)

2. Spence had a good take on this above. Models are not wildly speculative assumptions. This video offers a good explanation on how models are made using historic data and carried into the future. The take away is that the exact prediction of any model is not important, but the overall consensus of these various independent models on increasing levels of CO2 are warming the atmosphere, and in the case of this video, reducing the sea ice cover in the arctic

The geological record provides solid evidence of the implications of warmer worlds, times with higher CO2 and higher sea level than present. Let’s take Sea level rise since we are in the coastal area of New England.

Sea level is rising. Period. Observations and data (NOT MODELS) show it has accelerated within the last few decades and that that is driven by thermal expansion and melting of land based ice related to a warming planet.

Even if you want to conclude that sea level rise is not accelerating, it is rising, and that means that for every area prone to flooding from storms (and sea level rise), that it is not going to get better. How many coastal communities have installed tide gates on storm drains in recent years because low areas are now flooding just on spring tides w/o storm surge? That is largely due to ~1 ft of sea level rise. Now picture 3 -5 feet. The extreme scenarios in S. New England are >10ft.
The degree of how much worse it gets is up for debate. Prudent planning for the next decades to deal with this, rather than sticking fingers in our ears and yelling is short sighted and will make adaptation harder in the future. That isn’t even adding in the increased height of storm surge or potential for more intense or more frequent storms.

Scott, I like you, but F--- off unless you are going to actually contribute to these discussions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v9aRQpumPA

Jim your statement “ can’t even decide what’s happening, let alone figure out the causes or what the effects might be” is so wrong, I pretty sure there is a definate concensu in the scientific community on global warming. Unless you don’t watch local news; it’s clear to Boston it will severely impact them if sea levels continue to rise, to the level building codes are changing in the seaport. I grew up in Scituate Ma and remember walking over a mile of nice sandy beach and today at high tide you would need waders to go much past the small beach level by minut center. My son just got back from Alaska and was bummed they couldn’t take the advertised glacier dog sled ride, but the guide explained it’s just become so unsafe due to the unusual melting the past several years. Mountains covered by snow for hundreds of years are now shedding their perpetual winter blanket, polar bears are starving due to the lack of sea ice to hunt on, add it all up and it’s pretty clear what is happening.
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Scott, I like you, but F--- off unless you are going to actually contribute to these discussions.



cranky dictator :)

when you want government to do everything....you allow and encourage everything to be politicized ..and weaponized...which is where we stand today....the left has wrapped themselves in the cloak of invincibility of many things...science, race, environment, immigration and on and on...standing on their pedestals they have politicized and every issue and weaponized one government agency (particularly through the 8 years of Obama) after another to attack anyone who might disagree with them...when you politicize and weaponize everything you create division and choosing of sides and mistrust.....the left has overblown through lies, distortion and exaggeration the information and "science" often with the aid of the "scientific community"....the left in so many ways today has created many of the boogiemen that they battle on a daily basis...I don't have much sympathy :huh:

Trump is no more complicit in Florence than I am, but the moves he is making and his denial that climate change is happening, will not lessen the impact. Unless you just never ever watch national geographic or any of the outstanding documentaries that have air and documented what is happening, then keep believing climate change is a hoax. It won't impact you, it might not impact your children, but there will be significant implications down the road if the ice packs and glaciers continue to melt. Where do you think all the fing water is going?

Trump is complicit in the poor effort in the after math of Hugo in Puerto Rico, oh wait I'm sorry it was outstanding A+ job, he will likely do better in the Carolina's because they aren't some dirt bag island he doesn't give a sh*t about.

Did you know Trump is at fault for those millions of water bottles at Ciueba? Not sailing Comfort or Mercy (Hillary fixed that)? Not building a bridge before the storm from FL to PR in order to get trucks overnight to PR to repair the state of art Power Grid the US gave PR Many Millions to copy?

Did you know Trump is at fault for those millions of water bottles at Ciueba? Not sailing Comfort or Mercy (Hillary fixed that)? Not building a bridge before the storm from FL to PR in order to get trucks overnight to PR to repair the state of art Power Grid the US gave PR Many Millions to copy?

I know Trump isn't responsible for a lot of that John come on really, but he owns his big fat mouth and constant denial that the death tolls reported in Puerto Rico are false. Even yesterday instead of taking the high road, a road he almost never travels down, he continued to state the few additional deaths over the initial reports are due to the hurricanes, in fact he spun it as if the Dems were responsible for the reporting to make him look bad. So who do you believe, someone who is living it and responsible for their citizens well being, or a guy who appears to be looking for the Guinness Book of Record for the most lies or miss truths spoken be any living being in a year?

He also owns his administrations policy decisions which will do nothing to curb global warming, in fact he really has no fear of global warming, because as you all know that's fake news. Global warming to him is like the reports that over 3000 died in Puerto Rico, or that his inauguration crowd was smaller than most recent presidents, or that he never knew Cohen paid off a porn star.

He spends is mornings watching Fox and tweeting more lies and hurtful messaging, I had little respect for this guy from the start and I can't wait until he is voted out or kicked to the curb.

Jim your statement “ can’t even decide what’s happening, let alone figure out the causes or what the effects might be” is so wrong, I pretty sure there is a definate concensu in the scientific community on global warming. Unless you don’t watch local news; it’s clear to Boston it will severely impact them if sea levels continue to rise, to the level building codes are changing in the seaport. I grew up in Scituate Ma and remember walking over a mile of nice sandy beach and today at high tide you would need waders to go much past the small beach level by minut center. My son just got back from Alaska and was bummed they couldn’t take the advertised glacier dog sled ride, but the guide explained it’s just become so unsafe due to the unusual melting the past several years. Mountains covered by snow for hundreds of years are now shedding their perpetual winter blanket, polar bears are starving due to the lack of sea ice to hunt on, add it all up and it’s pretty clear what is happening.
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first it was global cooling. then global warming. then climate change.

the ice in antarctica is advancing, isn’t it?
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first it was global cooling. then global warming. then climate change.

the ice in antarctica is advancing, isn’t it?
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No
https://www.skepticalscience.com/antarctica-gaining-ice-intermediate.htm

I'm leaving at this Jim. Too busy to engage in pointless arguments on the internet.
1. The global cooling argument from the 70's is way over played (see this link for more on that) https://www.skepticalscience.com/What-1970s-science-said-about-global-cooling.html (https://www.skepticalscience.com/What-1970s-science-said-about-global-cooling.html)

2. Spence had a good take on this above. Models are not wildly speculative assumptions. This video offers a good explanation on how models are made using historic data and carried into the future. The take away is that the exact prediction of any model is not important, but the overall consensus of these various independent models on increasing levels of CO2 are warming the atmosphere, and in the case of this video, reducing the sea ice cover in the arctic

The geological record provides solid evidence of the implications of warmer worlds, times with higher CO2 and higher sea level than present. Let’s take Sea level rise since we are in the coastal area of New England.

Sea level is rising. Period. Observations and data (NOT MODELS) show it has accelerated within the last few decades and that that is driven by thermal expansion and melting of land based ice related to a warming planet.

Even if you want to conclude that sea level rise is not accelerating, it is rising, and that means that for every area prone to flooding from storms (and sea level rise), that it is not going to get better. How many coastal communities have installed tide gates on storm drains in recent years because low areas are now flooding just on spring tides w/o storm surge? That is largely due to ~1 ft of sea level rise. Now picture 3 -5 feet. The extreme scenarios in S. New England are >10ft.
The degree of how much worse it gets is up for debate. Prudent planning for the next decades to deal with this, rather than sticking fingers in our ears and yelling is short sighted and will make adaptation harder in the future. That isn’t even adding in the increased height of storm surge or potential for more intense or more frequent storms.

Scott, I like you, but F--- off unless you are going to actually contribute to these discussions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v9aRQpumPA


bryan, i run models all day long, to predict insurance losses. in these models, i have tons of historical data to base my assumptions on. if i’m trying to estimate how many auto accidents we will have in RI for every 100 cars we ensure, i can look at the number of accidents per 100 cars for each of the last 50 years. so the models are highly predictive, because there is a credible amount of historical data.

not so with climate change effects. the models
make wildly speculative assumptions, because it’s all brand new. it’s more complicated, with more moving pieces.

the sea is rising, that’s settled. how much if that is due to man, is wildly speculative, because we can’t know what sea labels would have been if man didn’t exist.

it’s very very important stuff, it needs to be researched. but don’t tell me that there aren’t broad assumptions because of the unknowns.
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most people can’t afford solar panels or geothermal systems. i have panels at my house because i wanted to do it, but it’s stupudly expensive.
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I would not advise doing ground source heat pumps in NE, we do not have real warm geothermal here. Your gain over air source will not pay for your investment during the life of the system. If you were in Iceland geothermal is plentiful, in fact they can in some locations just pump hot water out of the ground. Here the soil temperature is roughly equal to the latitude.
An air to air ductless heatpump is typically one of the most economical ways to heat and has one of the lowest installation costs. If you go to this site you can compare costs for different types of fuels and heating systems, based on your energy costs.
https://www.efficiencymaine.com/energyinformation/resources-for-homeowners/
You can do a solar system for 0$ up front here in VT, not sure how the rate structure is in CT.

I would not advise doing ground source heat pumps in NE, we do not have real warm geothermal here. Your gain over air source will not pay for your investment during the life of the system. If you were in Iceland geothermal is plentiful, in fact they can in some locations just pump hot water out of the ground. Here the soil temperature is roughly equal to the latitude.
An air to air ductless heatpump is typically one of the most economical ways to heat and has one of the lowest installation costs. If you go to this site you can compare costs for different types of fuels and heating systems, based on your energy costs.
https://www.efficiencymaine.com/energyinformation/resources-for-homeowners/
You can do a solar system for 0$ up front here in VT, not sure how the rate structure is in CT.

I did my solar with $0 laid out, but I don't save much, as I have to buy the electricity from the solar panel company. Would have been $30k to buy it, which is absurd.

We've also had an issue with birds nesting under there and then dying, so you can make a case I'm not really helping the planet. Had to spend more money to put guards under the panels to prevent bird infestation. Then it might make it harder to sell my house, because you can only do a 25 year lease. It's not NEARLY as user friendly as it could be.

I know Trump isn't responsible for a lot of that John come on really, but he owns his big fat mouth and constant denial that the death tolls reported in Puerto Rico are false. Even yesterday instead of taking the high road, a road he almost never travels down, he continued to state the few additional deaths over the initial reports are due to the hurricanes, in fact he spun it as if the Dems were responsible for the reporting to make him look bad. So who do you believe, someone who is living it and responsible for their citizens well being, or a guy who appears to be looking for the Guinness Book of Record for the most lies or miss truths spoken be any living being in a year?

He also owns his administrations policy decisions which will do nothing to curb global warming, in fact he really has no fear of global warming, because as you all know that's fake news. Global warming to him is like the reports that over 3000 died in Puerto Rico, or that his inauguration crowd was smaller than most recent presidents, or that he never knew Cohen paid off a porn star.

He spends is mornings watching Fox and tweeting more lies and hurtful messaging, I had little respect for this guy from the start and I can't wait until he is voted out or kicked to the curb.


Haha, Bob.

Trump, in his really crappy and often wrong way, is saying that the media frequently twists the truth to make him look bad. He is often correct. The media then runs with the crap he spews in his tweets, and they are then often correct.

Neither group is living in the land of honesty.

Lots of news and opnion outlets are blaming Trump and the FedGov's response to the PR hurricane disaster. The truth is that lots of things went right and lots wrong. If you (general you not Bob you ; ) ) are unwilling to wade into actual assessments and AAR.

I have seen enough inaccurate, biased, and opportunistic reporting RE PR/Maria to understand some of Trump's reactions to this.

The whining class however does not. They spun it while people died.

Here: Dig into the Executive Summary commissioned by PR regarding the casualties from Maria. PR was not prepared.

https://publichealth.gwu.edu/sites/default/files/downloads/projects/PRstudy/Acertainment%20of%20the%20Estimated%20Excess%20Mor tality%20from%20Hurricane%20Maria%20in%20Puerto%20 Rico.pdf

I did my solar with $0 laid out, but I don't save much, as I have to buy the electricity from the solar panel company. Would have been $30k to buy it, which is absurd.

We've also had an issue with birds nesting under there and then dying, so you can make a case I'm not really helping the planet. Had to spend more money to put guards under the panels to prevent bird infestation. Then it might make it harder to sell my house, because you can only do a 25 year lease. It's not NEARLY as user friendly as it could be.
So you are saving money (and possibly the planet:uhuh:) and you think it should or could be easier. Sounds like a business opportunity. You could even recommend the bird guards for a slight additional cost.
How many panels do you have? I'm wondering how prices compare to VT

Lots of news and opnion outlets are blaming Trump and the FedGov's response to the PR hurricane disaster. The truth is that lots of things went right and lots wrong. If you (general you not Bob you ; ) ) are unwilling to wade into actual assessments and AAR.
Part of being a strong leader is recognizing the shortcomings for what they are and pushing everyone forward to higher ground. A sober assessment means little when the man ultimately responsible for catalyzing change is more concerned about his own appearance than the well being of those who are under his wing.

The timing and substance of the tweets this morning were shocking even for Trump.

So you are saving money (and possibly the planet:uhuh:) and you think it should or could be easier. Sounds like a business opportunity. You could even recommend the bird guards for a slight additional cost.
How many panels do you have? I'm wondering how prices compare to VT

I'm saving a tiny bit of money, and having to deal with dead baby birds all over my patio. It may (who knows) also make it harder to sell my house, could make it much harder.

I'm no engineer, nor am I an entrepeneur.

Not sure how many panels, it covers both sides of my roof, which is very large system by CT standards. But we use a ton of electricity (have a pool with a pump and an electric heater). Two summers ago, before I got the panels, my electric bill for the month of August was $550. That is not a typo. My wife and kids are home running the central A/C full bore, and the pool pump and heater really suck up the juice.

A sober assessment means little when the man ultimately responsible for catalyzing change is more concerned about his own appearance than the well being of those who are under his wing.

The timing and substance of the tweets this morning were shocking even for Trump.

As for caring for those under his wing, I refer you to the moment in the SOTU when he announced that black unemployment was at an all time low. Please note which side celebrated that fact, and which side was made miserable by that fact. It appears your wish that leaders show concern for the rank-and-file, is quite selective.

"The timing and substance of the tweets this morning were shocking even for Trump"

Agreed.

Part of being a strong leader is recognizing the shortcomings for what they are and pushing everyone forward to higher ground. A sober assessment means little when the man ultimately responsible for catalyzing change is more concerned about his own appearance than the well being of those who are under his wing.

The timing and substance of the tweets this morning were shocking even for Trump.


Oh I agree he is a horrible leader, likely not as bad as you think he is. But I can understand SOME of what he is trying and failing to say because SOME of the facts support him and what he is saying. But the outrage mob can't get past that.

This is where I think out country is now broken, maybe irreparably.

As for caring for those under his wing, I refer you to the moment in the SOTU when he announced that black unemployment was at an all time low. Please note which side celebrated that fact, and which side was made miserable by that fact. It appears your wish that leaders show concern for the rank-and-file, is quite selective.

"The timing and substance of the tweets this morning were shocking even for Trump"

Agreed.

Don't they all

Last night marked President Barack Obama's eighth and final State of the Union address (full text here), a historic moment for the United States and a huge personal achievement for the embattled president, who has faced gun violence, terrorism, a flailing economy, and a hostile Congress during his two terms in office.

That hostile Congress was out in full colors last night, displaying a shocking level of disrespect for the Commander in Chief, and Speaker Ryan, who remained largely inert on the rostrum behind the president, was first in line — while even the most reluctant of his Republican fellows got up to applaud for lines supporting veterans, the "cancer moonshot," and American military strength, Ryan at one point actually twiddled his thumbs. His continual anxious shifting, on display to the nation, also included moves like crossing his legs, adjusting his jacket, fiddling with his ear, and wringing his hands. Perhaps he just really needed to tinkle.

He also — or, rather, his interns and staff — tweeted during the State of the Union with a line of commentary demonstrating his sheer level of disdain for the president.

He wasn't the only one. While the GOP isn't required to like the State of the Union, and is in fact encouraged to respond with a rebuttal — provided this year by South Carolina governor Nikki Haley — a modicum of respect is a reasonable expectation in the halls of Congress, and the behaviors seen on display last night were nothing short of childish.


Similarly, large swaths of the GOP chose to remain seated with increasingly bored expressions — some even appeared to nod off — during the speech, including during segments that would have provoked thunderous GOP applause had they come from a Republican president. Instead, they evidently so greatly feared appearing supportive of anything coming out of the president's mouth that they opted to sit still through the president's commentary on issues like better benefits and support for military and veterans, bootstrapping recommendations to work harder in order to achieve dreams, and improving conditions for business, all popular GOP topics. We couldn't expect them to stand up for the class war segment of the evening or their sound spanking on failure to act on Daesh and curbing Islamophobic sentiment, but come on, they couldn't rise for curing cancer?

But I can understand SOME of what he is trying and failing to say because SOME of the facts support him and what he is saying. But the outrage mob can't get past that.
His issue is he forfeits the benefit of doubt via his own behavior. I can't imaging he wasn't aware of the PR hit Bush took over his lack of focus on Katrina. Sure, a lot of the challenges he inherited but you mix up his rampant bigotry towards hispanics, the paper towel tossing, his insistence that this was the best response ever and to top it all off dismissing nearly 3,000 dead Americans on the eve of a massive storm...

Sorry, but the press isn't making this up or even being unfair. They're just reporting a train wreck for what it is.

This is where I think out country is now broken, maybe irreparably.



this ^^^^^

Sorry, but the press isn't making this up or even being unfair. They're just reporting a train wreck for what it is.



CNN just enthusiastically called the November mid-term elections for the democrats...based on polling .....in September

this ^^^^^

I thought it was a pro trump hurricane party with free assault rifles, MacDonalds and dancing girls
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Don't they all

Last night marked President Barack Obama's eighth and final State of the Union address (full text here), a historic moment for the United States and a huge personal achievement for the embattled president, who has faced gun violence, terrorism, a flailing economy, and a hostile Congress during his two terms in office.

That hostile Congress was out in full colors last night, displaying a shocking level of disrespect for the Commander in Chief, and Speaker Ryan, who remained largely inert on the rostrum behind the president, was first in line — while even the most reluctant of his Republican fellows got up to applaud for lines supporting veterans, the "cancer moonshot," and American military strength, Ryan at one point actually twiddled his thumbs. His continual anxious shifting, on display to the nation, also included moves like crossing his legs, adjusting his jacket, fiddling with his ear, and wringing his hands. Perhaps he just really needed to tinkle.

He also — or, rather, his interns and staff — tweeted during the State of the Union with a line of commentary demonstrating his sheer level of disdain for the president.

He wasn't the only one. While the GOP isn't required to like the State of the Union, and is in fact encouraged to respond with a rebuttal — provided this year by South Carolina governor Nikki Haley — a modicum of respect is a reasonable expectation in the halls of Congress, and the behaviors seen on display last night were nothing short of childish.


Similarly, large swaths of the GOP chose to remain seated with increasingly bored expressions — some even appeared to nod off — during the speech, including during segments that would have provoked thunderous GOP applause had they come from a Republican president. Instead, they evidently so greatly feared appearing supportive of anything coming out of the president's mouth that they opted to sit still through the president's commentary on issues like better benefits and support for military and veterans, bootstrapping recommendations to work harder in order to achieve dreams, and improving conditions for business, all popular GOP topics. We couldn't expect them to stand up for the class war segment of the evening or their sound spanking on failure to act on Daesh and curbing Islamophobic sentiment, but come on, they couldn't rise for curing cancer?

"Ryan at one point actually twiddled his thumbs. His continual anxious shifting, on display to the nation, also included moves like crossing his legs, adjusting his jacket, fiddling with his ear, and wringing his hands. Perhaps he just really needed to tinkle."

Your source is mocking Ryan because he couldn't sit still. That's some source of news, boy...

Paul Ryan is a softie, not a political attack dog. You wont hear that on whatever godforsaken place you got this crap.

His issue is he forfeits the benefit of doubt via his own behavior. I can't imaging he wasn't aware of the PR hit Bush took over his lack of focus on Katrina. Sure, a lot of the challenges he inherited but you mix up his rampant bigotry towards hispanics, the paper towel tossing, his insistence that this was the best response ever and to top it all off dismissing nearly 3,000 dead Americans on the eve of a massive storm...

Sorry, but the press isn't making this up or even being unfair. They're just reporting a train wreck for what it is.

FEMA isn't a first responder, isn't designed to be, can never be. The problem in PR was the same problem in New Orleans during Katrina. An amazingly incompetent and disastrously corrupt local government. LOCAL. The effectiveness of preventing these storms from being disasters is determined locally, not in Washington DC. Remember the footage from post Katrina, all those school buses underwater, that could/should have been used to get locals out of there ahead of time.

this ^^^^^

My favorite since he got elected. A college professor, who you would assume isn't an obviously deranged individual - shot himself to protest the Trump presidency. Shot himself.

Unless this is a hoax story, which you almost think it has to be.

SOME of the facts support him and what he is saying. But the outrage mob can't get past that.

This is where I think out country is now broken, maybe irreparably.

Spot on, John.

FEMA isn't a first responder, isn't designed to be, can never be. The problem in PR was the same problem in New Orleans during Katrina. An amazingly incompetent and disastrously corrupt local government. LOCAL. The effectiveness of preventing these storms from being disasters is determined locally, not in Washington DC. Remember the footage from post Katrina, all those school buses underwater, that could/should have been used to get locals out of there ahead of time.
New Orleans local officials certainly could have done a better job, as could have FEMA, but the primary reason Katrina was such a disaster was due to massive levy failure which is the responsibility of the federal government.

New Orleans local officials certainly could have done a better job, as could have FEMA, but the primary reason Katrina was such a disaster was due to massive levy failure which is the responsibility of the federal government.

true about who constructed the levies. but no one should have been there. they had a weeks notice.
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"Ryan at one point actually twiddled his thumbs. His continual anxious shifting, on display to the nation, also included moves like crossing his legs, adjusting his jacket, fiddling with his ear, and wringing his hands. Perhaps he just really needed to tinkle."

Your source is mocking Ryan because he couldn't sit still. That's some source of news, boy...

Paul Ryan is a softie, not a political attack dog. You wont hear that on whatever godforsaken place you got this crap.
Yes, I know God Loves Trump Pence and everyone else is godforsaken
When the republicans sat in Obama's last SOTU that was fine, but you try and play the race card when the dems sit during Trumps.
Unemployment has gone down less during Trump than during Obama, basic math from 10 to 5 is more than 5 to 4 but that is the greatest ever, all praise Trump
He's got you conned

His issue is he forfeits the benefit of doubt via his own behavior. I can't imaging he wasn't aware of the PR hit Bush took over his lack of focus on Katrina. Sure, a lot of the challenges he inherited but you mix up his rampant bigotry towards hispanics, the paper towel tossing, his insistence that this was the best response ever and to top it all off dismissing nearly 3,000 dead Americans on the eve of a massive storm...

Sorry, but the press isn't making this up or even being unfair. They're just reporting a train wreck for what it is.

I've read some of the whining class reports on this, things like how Hillary got things in gear by shaming Trump (USNS Comfort, etc) except that is not how it happened. The DOD / Navy ramped up hard for Puerto Rico (many after just finishing an 8+ month deployment) to got there and help that faltering (before the hurricane) state.

But facts don't matter because Trump forfeits any is what you are saying. But it's OK since it has become part of the allowable Zeitgeist ...



this ^^^^^

Thanks for completing the B side to my we ain'tgonnafixit thoughts :nailem:

New Orleans local officials certainly could have done a better job, as could have FEMA, but the primary reason Katrina was such a disaster was due to massive levy failure which is the responsibility of the federal government.

You mean Congress's fault for decades underfunding that, right?

You mean Congress's fault for decades underfunding that, right?
It's another failure mode but an obvious one and puts tremendous pressure on local officials trying to balance safety with undue burden on their constituents. The Gov called for disaster assistance in advance and FEMA dropped the ball for several days resulting in a delayed response.

As for Jim's image of flooded school buses, give me a break. It's a picture, not an analysis.

It's another failure mode but an obvious one and puts tremendous pressure on local officials trying to balance safety with undue burden on their constituents. The Gov called for disaster assistance in advance and FEMA dropped the ball for several days resulting in a delayed response.

As for Jim's image of flooded school buses, give me a break. It's a picture, not an analysis.

it’s not just a picture. there is a plan written down in new orleans, those buses are supposed to be used to evacuate the poor in event of a hurucane. they had several days to enact that plan, but couldn’t pull it off. once bobby jindal was governor, when the next major hurricane hit, everyone was out. the difference, was competence in local leadership.

not just a picture, it most certainly is an analysis. you just don’t happen to like what the analysis says, because you aren’t capable of saying that the democratic mayor and governor, were pathetic. sobwas fema by the way, i could have driven water down there faster than they got it there, no excuse for that either. see, i can admit when my side blows it.


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Scott, I like you, but F--- off unless you are going to actually contribute to these discussions.


I'd note that I'm the only one who provided an example of what he asked for and was told to f--off....

typical democrat :rude: no surprise

Thanks for completing the B side to my we ain'tgonnafixit thoughts :nailem:



drowning them might be a little harsh....I'm for deporting them

I'd note that I'm the only one who provided an example of what he asked for and was told to f--off....

typical democrat :rude: no surprise

Again, I am not wasting the time wading into this here. We have rehashed the same arguments about models with Jim and I am not engaging. There are older posts about it, and I would just end up saying the same basic stuff.

Yes, you did post an example... You edited that post after just writing 'consensus, yawn' and admittedly, I didn't see it. After I posted, I saw your rant about government and then was off the forum the rest of the day.

You didn't post something to defend Jim's point anyways. A 2018 paper talking about the implications of 2deg C warming, which is a very reasonable outcome this century, is not a case where a projection was wrong.

Have a good day guys. May the continued circle-jerk be profound for you.... :cheers:

Yes, I know God Loves Trump Pence and everyone else is godforsaken
When the republicans sat in Obama's last SOTU that was fine, but you try and play the race card when the dems sit during Trumps.
Unemployment has gone down less during Trump than during Obama, basic math from 10 to 5 is more than 5 to 4 but that is the greatest ever, all praise Trump
He's got you conned

Pete, you posted an article attacking Ryan because during a (90 minute?) speech, he didn't sit absolutely still. Sorry, that's a new source that can never be trusted to report on the time of the sunrise.

Have a good day guys. May the continued circle-jerk be profound for you.... :cheers:

geez get a grip...it's amusement...if you think you are going to solve the world's problems HERE....you really need some help :rollem:

geez get a grip...it's amusement...if you think you are going to solve the world's problems HERE....you really need some help :rollem:

Nothing to do with saving the world... I enjoy the banter, but not enough hours in the day to waste it here with you jamokes :-)
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Pete, you posted an article attacking Ryan because during a (90 minute?) speech, he didn't sit absolutely still. Sorry, that's a new source that can never be trusted to report on the time of the sunrise.
Cherrypicking, read the next sentence

"Similarly, large swaths of the GOP chose to remain seated with increasingly bored expressions — some even appeared to nod off — during the speech, including during segments that would have provoked thunderous GOP applause had they come from a Republican president. Instead, they evidently so greatly feared appearing supportive of anything coming out of the president's mouth that they opted to sit still through the president's commentary on issues like better benefits and support for military and veterans, bootstrapping recommendations to work harder in order to achieve dreams, and improving conditions for business, all popular GOP topics."

Everybody can whatabout, we need to get Congress to work and not play political games, for Americans, not for people on the edges

So I guess the Dems. hate low Black unemployment and the Repubs. hate the military.

Everybody can whatabout, we need to get Congress to work and not play political games, for Americans, not for people on the edges

Agreed 100%, very well put, and both sides need to stop the BS and get back to work. It's not just one side, there's plenty of BS on the right.

Trump would be well advised not to poo-poo the death totals from the Puerto Rico hurricane, though it's fair to say that local leaders there have been corrupt and incompetent as well.

But here, CNN's Andrea Mitchell is desperately trying to bash FEMA, and the director (who seems very impressive and capable to me) isn't having any of it. She tries to use the death toll as evidence that FEMA failed. Does she think that FEMA's role is to prevent hurricanes from happening?

State/local government have, by far, the greater responsibility for preparing for hurricanes. If state/local leaders fail miserably, FEMA can't be expected to overcome that.

I think this guy gutted her like a fish, and she never said he had a point, all she did is go down the talking points. Her goal here, obviously, was to club Trump.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGQ_5SkjrX0

geez get a grip...it's amusement...if you think you are going to solve the world's problems HERE....you really need some help :rollem:

I know, that’s what Facebook is for
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But here, CNN's Andrea Mitchell is desperately trying to bash FEMA, and the director (who seems very impressive and capable to me) isn't having any of it. She tries to use the death toll as evidence that FEMA failed. Does she think that FEMA's role is to prevent hurricanes from happening?
Andrea Mitchell works for MSNBC.

State/local government have, by far, the greater responsibility for preparing for hurricanes. If state/local leaders fail miserably, FEMA can't be expected to overcome that.
The entire reason FEMA exists is to compensate for local government that's expected to break down.

I think this guy gutted her like a fish, and she never said he had a point, all she did is go down the talking points. Her goal here, obviously, was to club Trump.
Was there a single unreasonable question? Was anything unprofessional? I'm surprised you didn't say she was shrieking, unhinged, depraved and otherwise morally bankrupt.

Andrea Mitchell works for MSNBC.


The entire reason FEMA exists is to compensate for local government that's expected to break down.


Was there a single unreasonable question? Was anything unprofessional? I'm surprised you didn't say she was shrieking, unhinged, depraved and otherwise morally bankrupt.

"Andrea Mitchell works for MSNBC"

Correct, thanks.

"The entire reason FEMA exists is to compensate for local government that's expected to break down. "

That's correct. But a hurricane death count, doesn't indicate that FEMA failed. It indicates the local officials failed. Especially if the death count is exacerbated by a crumbling infrastructure and electrical grid, etc.

"Was there a single unreasonable question?"

Several.

asking how FEMA's efforts could be considered favorable, given the death count. That's on local officials.

She was wrong about who owns the electrical grid, she made a big deal out of the nothingburger about who is "certified" to do what, she made a big deal out of the nohtingburger (according to the director) that was 10M getting diverted from FEMA to ICE. The whole intervie wwas designed for Mitchell to make FEMA, and by extension Trump, to look bad. She didn't acknowledge a single thing he said. As soon as he shot down one point, she moved right on to the next. She never, ever, said "I stand corrected". or anything along those lines. Right down the Trump hit list.

"I'm surprised you didn't say she was shrieking, unhinged, depraved and otherwise morally bankrupt"

She wasn't shrieking, she was very calm. She was being an azzhole, but calm.

"Andrea Mitchell works for MSNBC"

Correct, thanks.

"The entire reason FEMA exists is to compensate for local government that's expected to break down. "

That's correct. But a hurricane death count, doesn't indicate that FEMA failed. It indicates the local officials failed. Especially if the death count is exacerbated by a crumbling infrastructure and electrical grid, etc.

"Was there a single unreasonable question?"

Several.

asking how FEMA's efforts could be considered favorable, given the death count. That's on local officials.

She was wrong about who owns the electrical grid, she made a big deal out of the nothingburger about who is "certified" to do what, she made a big deal out of the nohtingburger (according to the director) that was 10M getting diverted from FEMA to ICE. The whole intervie wwas designed for Mitchell to make FEMA, and by extension Trump, to look bad. She didn't acknowledge a single thing he said. As soon as he shot down one point, she moved right on to the next. She never, ever, said "I stand corrected". or anything along those lines. Right down the Trump hit list.

"I'm surprised you didn't say she was shrieking, unhinged, depraved and otherwise morally bankrupt"

She wasn't shrieking, she was very calm. She was being an azzhole, but calm.
Actually Jim, I thought she asked questions that I had heard in the news, he answered them very well, she accepted his answers and moved on to the next question.
Is that she asked the questions the problem?
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Actually Jim, I thought she asked questions that I had heard in the news, he answered them very well, she accepted his answers and moved on to the next question.
Is that she asked the questions the problem?
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The problem, is that every single question she asked, was designed to make FEMA look bad. They blew it in PR, how dare they say otherwise, 50% of their workers aren't certified, money taken from their budget and given to ICE, more about Puerto Rico.

Nothing about how noble the mission of FEMA is, nothing about what we cam do to help, nothing about the selfless heroes that work there, and all the people they help, nothing even about what can be done to make Florence as tams as possible.

Nothing.

Just a Trump hit piece, every syllable.

Nothing wrong with asking challenging questions. But how about an attaboy for what they are trying to do? How about apologizing for how wrong all of her presumptions were?

Pathetic.

The problem, is that every single question she asked, was designed to make FEMA look bad. They blew it in PR, how dare they say otherwise, 50% of their workers aren't certified, money taken from their budget and given to ICE, more about Puerto Rico.

Nothing about how noble the mission of FEMA is, nothing about what we cam do to help, nothing about the selfless heroes that work there, and all the people they help, nothing even about what can be done to make Florence as tams as possible.

Nothing.

Just a Trump hit piece, every syllable.

Nothing wrong with asking challenging questions. But how about an attaboy for what they are trying to do? How about apologizing for how wrong all of her presumptions were?

Pathetic.
What was the first sentence she spoke?
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One of the wettest we've ever seen from the standpoint of water".😂
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One of the wettest we've ever seen from the standpoint of water".😂
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that's why they call her Stormy Daniels

“At least you got a nice boat out of the deal.”