What would people say if Elizabeth Warren had claimed to have Jewish heritage and Trump had said:
If Elizabeth Warren, often referred to by me as Marjorie Morningstar, did this commercial from Auschwitz or Buchenwald instead of her kitchen, with her husband dressed in a yarmulke, it would have been a smash!

i see! so to you, there’s no issue with warren lying to be an ethnic minority for her own personal gain. but if trump
makes fun of her in crass sophomoric fashion, THAT bothers you. But not what she did.

When warren was asked to submit an authentic cherokee recipe for an indian cookbook, she chose a crab omelette. As we all know, crabs were a staple of the diet for Oklahoma Cherokees. there’s no better crab than Oklahoma Plains crab, I always say...in fact, when the university of oklahoma needed to pick a mascot, it came down to sooners and hard shells.

trump=bad, we get it.
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Not the point, Trump makes fun of anyone who calls him out and far to many of his personal attacks are completely inappropriate. Disabled, life long patriot, prisoner of war, it matters little to Trump, civility, respect and decorum are not words he lives by. He lessons the position of president with each and every tweet.
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i see! so to you, there’s no issue with warren lying to be an ethnic minority for her own personal gain. but if trump
makes fun of her in crass sophomoric fashion, THAT bothers you. But not what she did.

When warren was asked to submit an authentic cherokee recipe for an indian cookbook, she chose a crab omelette. As we all know, crabs were a staple of the diet for Oklahoma Cherokees. there’s no better crab than Oklahoma Plains crab, I always say...in fact, when the university of oklahoma needed to pick a mascot, it came down to sooners and hard shells.

trump=bad, we get it.
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Least racist person
As proof he did not restrict blacks and Hispanics from getting jobs
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Not the point, Trump makes fun of anyone who calls him out and far to many of his personal attacks are completely inappropriate. Disabled, life long patriot, prisoner of war, it matters little to Trump, civility, respect and decorum are not words he lives by. He lessons the position of president with each and every tweet.
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Perhaps the position of President should be lessened. It has become a more powerful position than was imagined when it was created. Come to think of it, the same can be said of the entire federal government.

And, BTW, those early pols weren't exactly the most civil, respectful, and decorous politicians whoever "respected" their office. There was a lot of hate and vituperation cast at one another, as was done in the flaming press of that time. Aaron Burr, a sitting Vice President, fought a duel and killed one of the most famous and "respected" founders, Hamilton.

This whole thread is going to go swirling down the "Stupid Hole" real quick.

Perhaps the position of President should be lessened. It has become a more powerful position than was imagined when it was created. Come to think of it, the same can be said of the entire federal government.

And, BTW, those early pols weren't exactly the most civil, respectful, and decorous politicians whoever "respected" their office. There was a lot of hate and vituperation cast at one another, as was done in the flaming press of that time. Aaron Burr, a sitting Vice President, fought a duel and killed one of the most famous and "respected" founders, Hamilton.

Really that is your argument, that because it was done in the past, it is to be expected in the present? If we haven’t changed in that respect, then it’s time we did, nobody needs to be a fing ahole to govern or make a point. Far to many threads fall into the same lame argument based on past administrations and you are taking it to a new level of absurdity by really setting the way back machine to a time that has no relevance today. You have been driving around in the Delorian for too long.
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Not the point, Trump makes fun of anyone who calls him out and far to many of his personal attacks are completely inappropriate. Disabled, life long patriot, prisoner of war, it matters little to Trump, civility, respect and decorum are not words he lives by. He lessons the position of president with each and every tweet.
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it is at least part of the point. the left never, EVER stops talking about race, not ever. and none of them had anything critical to say when a prominent senator who is their party’s current front runner for potus, lies about being a minority to get a cushy job.

trump is a jerk. and the left doesn’t give a rats azz about minorities, unless it’s pilitically advantageous to do so.

i’ve ripped
into trump many times, i thought this time he was hilarious, and you’d be hard pressed to find a more deserving target.
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Wounded Knee was one of the worst native massacres in US history.

Native Americans have decried Mr Trump's language, calling it insensitive and racist.

And the usual suspects rush in to run defense with absurd comparisons

He declared himself a nationalist how can that be construed as racist😳
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This whole thread is going to go swirling down the "Stupid Hole" real quick.


quick?
it began with post #1

then again, I am not apprised of Trumps' latest tweet, insult or outrage of the day so I don't care, Trump does not live in my head and I don't look for these things, they do however show up on this forum daily.

Wounded Knee was one of the worst native massacres in US history.

Native Americans have decried Mr Trump's language, calling it insensitive and racist.

And the usual suspects rush in to run defense with absurd comparisons

another horrible
massacre of
native americans was the trail of tears. liz warren isn’t descended from cherokee’s, but she is deacended from someone who was an enforcer on the Trail If Tears. then she seizes
for herself the sympathy we have for these people, for her own profit.

and you don’t care. all that offends you, is the brashness of Trumps criticism ofbher cultural theft.

do you object to what warren did at all?

pray to god she gets the nomination, trump wouldn’t even have to campaign.


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Really that is your argument, that because it was done in the past, it is to be expected in the present? If we haven’t changed in that respect, then it’s time we did, nobody needs to be a fing ahole to govern or make a point. Far to many threads fall into the same lame argument based on past administrations and you are taking it to a new level of absurdity by really setting the way back machine to a time that has no relevance today. You have been driving around in the Delorian for too long.
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You said " it matters little to Trump, civility, respect and decorum are not words he lives by. He lessons the position of president with each and every tweet." I don't know from which book or code of presidential conduct you get your notion, nor who wrote it. If anyone would have a proper idea of some notion of presidential "position" on civility, respect, and decorum, those who created that position surely would have a sound and proper notion on the subject.

And any unwritten yet perceived idea of presidential conduct could only be derived from how Presidents have acted in the past. There have been several potty mouthed or disrespectful or indecorous Presidents in the past. Trump is not some outlier in that respect. He may even be more respectful than others. When he is not attacked, he is civil, and respectful. Many of those who know him personally attest that he is very civilized.

And, apparently it's OK with you when in this forum Trump is accused of "unprecedented" behavior, or of telling more lies than any past President. Those time machines are OK.

I found this in something called: Code of Ethics for US Government Service:
"Is There a Presidential Code of Ethics?
While the elected members of Congress have chosen to adopt their own code of ethics, the President of the United States, as an elected rather than hired or appointed representatives of the people, is not subject to any specific statute or rule governing his or her ethical conduct. While they are subject to civil suit and criminal prosecution for violations of common laws, presidents are generally immune from punishment for conduct related to their official acts. In other words, presidents are generally free to lie or misrepresent facts, as long as they do not intentionally defame any specific person or persons in doing so.

In fact, the only the only practical remedies to unethical conduct on the part of the president are the constant vigilance of a well-informed public, congressional oversight, and ultimately the threat of impeachment for 'high crimes and misdemeanors.' ”

So, unless he can be accused of "intentionally defaming" someone (for which he could be sued for libel--which has not happened), how has he lessened the position of President.

There was acceptable treatment of native Americans, blacks and women in the past in which you love to visit, times change and the bar had been raised thankfully, maybe it’s time for us to expect more of our potus.
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There was acceptable treatment of native Americans, blacks and women in the past in which you love to visit, times change and the bar had been raised thankfully, maybe it’s time for us to expect more of our potus.
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Being an enforcer on the Trail of Tears? Yeah., no biggie. Let me guess, it was wrong to brutalize people, riiiiiight up until the day Trump got sworn in. Then, instantly, bad behavior became bad again.

You guys....there is no such thing as loathsome behavior, unless it's Trump. Everyone else gets a pass, at least everyone with a 'D' after their name.

Being an enforcer on the Trail of Tears? Yeah., no biggie. Let me guess, it was wrong to brutalize people, riiiiiight up until the day Trump got sworn in. Then, instantly, bad behavior became bad again.

You guys....there is no such thing as loathsome behavior, unless it's Trump. Everyone else gets a pass, at least everyone with a 'D' after their name.

I’d best just as upset at a Democrat for similar treatment of others, Trump has brought inappropriate to an entire new level.
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He outdid himself tonight with the spread he put out for the Clemson Tigers! A lot of family favorites Ricky Bobby style.
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There was acceptable treatment of native Americans, blacks and women in the past in which you love to visit, times change and the bar had been raised thankfully, maybe it’s time for us to expect more of our potus.
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When did this bar raising occur? Was there a report about this event? Was there some official code written and approved for this new bar? And how, specifically, is this bar worded? Would this bar limit the Presidents freedom of speech? Are there some specific limited ways encoded in which ways the President must behave himself?

How is it expecting more of the POTUS if he/she is limited in personal ways to act and express? This sounds like some ancient prescription for Royal etiquette. The Queen must not say certain words. It would be unseemly and shocking.

When did this bar raising occur? Was there a report about this event? Was there some official code written and approved for this new bar? And how, specifically, is this bar worded? Would this bar limit the Presidents freedom of speech? Are there some specific limited ways encoded in which ways the President must behave himself?

How is it expecting more of the POTUS if he/she is limited in personal ways to act and express? This sounds like some ancient prescription for Royal etiquette. The Queen must not say certain words. It would be unseemly and shocking.

I keep forgetting I’m just banging my head against a WALL and all I will ever get out of it is a headache. You can go back to the future now where life is as it should be.
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I keep forgetting I’m just banging my head against a WALL and all I will ever get out of it is a headache. You can go back to the future now where life is as it should be.
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It's all good.

another horrible
massacre of
native americans was the trail of tears. liz warren isn’t descended from cherokee’s, but she is deacended from someone who was an enforcer on the Trail If Tears. then she seizes
for herself the sympathy we have for these people, for her own profit.

and you don’t care. all that offends you, is the brashness of Trumps criticism ofbher cultural theft.

do you object to what warren did at all?

pray to god she gets the nomination, trump wouldn’t even have to campaign.


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I was told i was irish , french canadian, english , and indian who know whats true or false

Warren cultural Theft .... what a joke but trumps comments were just brashness... you talk alot about others Hate.. you need to look in the mirror on the topic of hate when it come to Warren

another horrible
massacre of
native americans was the trail of tears. liz warren isn’t descended from cherokee’s, but she is deacended from someone who was an enforcer on the Trail If Tears. then she seizes
for herself the sympathy we have for these people, for her own profit.

and you don’t care. all that offends you, is the brashness of Trumps criticism ofbher cultural theft.

do you object to what warren did at all?

pray to god she gets the nomination, trump wouldn’t even have to campaign.


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You pray for odd things
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I was told i was irish , french canadian, english , and indian who know whats true or false

Warren cultural Theft .... what a joke but trumps comments were just brashness... you talk alot about others Hate.. you need to look in the mirror on the topic of hate when it come to Warren

"Warren cultural Theft .... what a joke "

When you and Spence reply with "wrong, that's a joke", with absolutely zero supporting evidence, we all know that you are desperately grasping at straws.

But for the sake of argument, can you explain why she isn't guilty of cultural theft? She claimed to be Native American when applying for a $400,000-a-year job at Harvard, which she got, and for which Harvard advertised that she was a Native American professor.

When asked to provide an authentic Oklahoma Cherokee recipe for a Native American cookbook, she chose a crab omelette. There are two choices here...(1) Warren is stupid enough to honestly believe that crabs were a staple of the diet of the Oklahoma Cherokees, or (2) she's a fraud. There is no third option, so I'd love it if you tell me which you think it is.

"you need to look in the mirror on the topic of hate when it come to Warren"

I happily concede that I hate Elizabeth Warren, and that I pray with all my heart that she gets the nomination. If she gets the nomination, the GOP could nominate Pol Pot and win.

You pray for odd things
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It's odd to pray that the other side nominates someone with zero chance of winning? OK.

"Warren cultural Theft .... what a joke "

When you and Spence reply with "wrong, that's a joke", with absolutely zero supporting evidence, we all know that you are desperately grasping at straws.

But for the sake of argument, can you explain why she isn't guilty of cultural theft? She claimed to be Native American when applying for a $400,000-a-year job at Harvard, which she got, and for which Harvard advertised that she was a Native American professor.

When asked to provide an authentic Oklahoma Cherokee recipe for a Native American cookbook, she chose a crab omelette. There are two choices here...(1) Warren is stupid enough to honestly believe that crabs were a staple of the diet of the Oklahoma Cherokees, or (2) she's a fraud. There is no third option, so I'd love it if you tell me which you think it is.

"you need to look in the mirror on the topic of hate when it come to Warren"

I happily concede that I hate Elizabeth Warren, and that I pray with all my heart that she gets the nomination. If she gets the nomination, the GOP could nominate Pol Pot and win.

This is about Trumps comments not warren action but you love your cause and effect arguments again as. if both are equal

Do you blame the women being raped south of the border ? if they never made the trip they put themselves at risk

Ps Spence and I provide plenty of supporting evidence. Your upset because the facts i do not support your many dubious non factual claims


In 1984, Warren contributed five recipes to a Native American cookbook entitled “Pow Wow Chow:

Wow your using a 34 year old cook book for your arguments how sad is that

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This is about Trumps comments not warren action but you love your cause and effect arguments again as. if both are equal

Do you blame the women being raped south of the border ? if they never made the trip they put themselves at risk

Ps Spence and I provide plenty of supporting evidence. Your upset because the facts i do not support your many dubious non factual claims
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"This is about Trumps comments not warren action"

LMAO. Is there a law that says you can't switch topics? You called it a joke that people accuse Warren of cultural theft, I merely asked you to defend that. And you can't.

"Do you blame the women being raped south of the border ?"

Wait, I thought this was about Trump's comments and that we weren't allowed to stray from that topic? Since you asked, I will answer (a courtesy you don't show me), no, I don't blame the women, they are the victims.

"Ps Spence and I provide plenty of supporting evidence"

OK, show me the evidence that Warren didn't defraud Harvard.

"This is about Trumps comments not warren action"

LMAO. Is there a law that says you can't switch topics? You called it a joke that people accuse Warren of cultural theft, I merely asked you to defend that. And you can't.

"Do you blame the women being raped south of the border ?"

Wait, I thought this was about Trump's comments and that we weren't allowed to stray from that topic? Since you asked, I will answer (a courtesy you don't show me), no, I don't blame the women, they are the victims.

"Ps Spence and I provide plenty of supporting evidence"

OK, show me the evidence that Warren didn't defraud Harvard.

de·fraud
/dəˈfrôd/Submit
verb
illegally obtain money from (someone) by deception.

Did Harvard pay her for being an Indian .. or to teach?
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de·fraud
/dəˈfrôd/Submit
verb
illegally obtain money from (someone) by deception.

Did Harvard pay her for being an Indian .. or to teach?
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both. harvard advertised her as a native american professor.

are you seriously going to say, that warren had no incentive to lie on her application? that claimingnto be a native american, wouldn’t give her a better chance of getting the job? you deny this?
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Jim, you do realize that the Cherokee tribes didn’t originally come from Oklahoma right?
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Jim, you do realize that the Cherokee tribes didn’t originally come from Oklahoma right?
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no i did not. but it’s less funny that way, and less accurate too obviously...
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they were originally from GA, Spence was 100% correct...
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they were originally from GA, Spence was 100% correct...
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Hey, I am a tribal member.
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Hey, I am a tribal member.
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Well you were right, and accurate facts are always worth getting out there, even when they undermine the joke I was trying to make.

If she gets the nomination, the GOP could nominate Pol Pot and win.

I'm starting to really worry about what you are praying for.

I'm starting to really worry about what you are praying for.

well you can stop, because i’m praying for peace and prosperity. which in this country at this time, mostly means republicans.
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She claimed to be Native American when applying for a $400,000-a-year job at Harvard, which she got, and for which Harvard advertised that she was a Native American professor.



She claimed on her job app. that she was Native American? I didn't know that.

Did it help her get the job?

So isn't she Native American give she has like 5% - 10% NA blood?

She claimed on her job app. that she was Native American? I didn't know that.

Did it help her get the job?

So isn't she Native American give she has like 5% - 10% NA blood?

"She claimed on her job app. that she was Native American? I didn't know that. "

yes, and Harvard advertised her as a Native American professor. Maybe she genuinely believed it. I find that unlikely.

"Did it help her get the job?"

As a professor at Harvard? You bet it did...

"So isn't she Native American give she has like 5% - 10% NA blood"

Nowhere near that much. In fact, the DNA test showed she had less than the average European Caucasian. I'm not sure why or how most of us have more Native American blood than her, but that's the math.

She lied to get a cushy, lucrative job in academia. It's not as bad as murder, and doesn't mean she couldn't make the country a better place. What it might mean, is that there are losers on both sides, and I'd really like a consistent set of standards applied to everyone. I doubt she has as many ethical lapses in her past as Trump does. But liberals don't want to discuss this at all, yet they want to dissect everything Trump does.

"She claimed on her job app. that she was Native American? I didn't know that. "According to the link below she didn't indicate it on her application.

yes, and Harvard advertised her as a Native American professor. Maybe she genuinely believed it. I find that unlikely.

"Did it help her get the job?"

As a professor at Harvard? You bet it did...See the link below - people in the meeting claim it was never discussed.

"So isn't she Native American give she has like 5% - 10% NA blood"

Nowhere near that much. In fact, the DNA test showed she had less than the average European Caucasian. I'm not sure why or how most of us have more Native American blood than her, but that's the math.

She lied to get a cushy, lucrative job in academia.Where is the proof - that at some point they determined/found out she had some native American blood so they decided to claim they had a minority on staff? It's not as bad as murder, and doesn't mean she couldn't make the country a better place. What it might mean, is that there are losers on both sides, and I'd really like a consistent set of standards applied to everyone. I doubt she has as many ethical lapses in her past as Trump does. But liberals don't want to discuss this at all, yet they want to dissect everything Trump does.more that liberals don't like what he says (although admittedly they don't like what he does also).

Most said they were unaware of her claims to Native American heritage and all but one of the 31 said those claims were not discussed as part of her hire. One professor told the Globe he is unsure whether her heritage came up, but is certain that, if it did, it had no bearing on his vote on Warren’s appointment.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2018/09/01/did-claiming-native-american-heritage-actually-help-elizabeth-warren-get-ahead-but-complicated/wUZZcrKKEOUv5Spnb7IO0K/story.html

"She claimed on her job app. that she was Native American? I didn't know that. "

yes, and Harvard advertised her as a Native American professor. Maybe she genuinely believed it. I find that unlikely.

"Did it help her get the job?"

As a professor at Harvard? You bet it did...

"So isn't she Native American give she has like 5% - 10% NA blood"

Nowhere near that much. In fact, the DNA test showed she had less than the average European Caucasian. I'm not sure why or how most of us have more Native American blood than her, but that's the math.

She lied to get a cushy, lucrative job in academia. It's not as bad as murder, and doesn't mean she couldn't make the country a better place. What it might mean, is that there are losers on both sides, and I'd really like a consistent set of standards applied to everyone. I doubt she has as many ethical lapses in her past as Trump does. But liberals don't want to discuss this at all, yet they want to dissect everything Trump does.
Once again you are repeating mis-truths propagated by right wing media.
I do not agree with Warren on many issues but I do think that some of the issues she raises are important and need to be considered. Your admitted hate for her based on things you have seen in the media is sad, and tragicomical given your defense of most things Trump does including his claiming ethnicity falsely for financial gain.
The Boston Globe did an in depth article on this issue last September, I would challenge you to read it and then rebut it's factual evidence based on factual evidence that you can find.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2018/09/01/did-claiming-native-american-heritage-actually-help-elizabeth-warren-get-ahead-but-complicated/wUZZcrKKEOUv5Spnb7IO0K/story.html

Once again you are repeating mis-truths propagated by right wing media.
I do not agree with Warren on many issues but I do think that some of the issues she raises are important and need to be considered. Your admitted hate for her based on things you have seen in the media is sad, and tragicomical given your defense of most things Trump does including his claiming ethnicity falsely for financial gain.
The Boston Globe did an in depth article on this issue last September, I would challenge you to read it and then rebut it's factual evidence based on factual evidence that you can find.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2018/09/01/did-claiming-native-american-heritage-actually-help-elizabeth-warren-get-ahead-but-complicated/wUZZcrKKEOUv5Spnb7IO0K/story.html

Oh. So because the Harvard faculty said (after learning she lied)they didn't consider her Native American ancestry in the hiring, that makes it true? Harvard did a some advertising of their belief that they hired a Native American. They thought it was good, back then, that they had a Native American on their faculty.

The Boston Globe is liberal, Therefore it's automatically superior to everything that's not? You say so!!

Most said they were unaware of her claims to Native American heritage and all but one of the 31 said those claims were not discussed as part of her hire. One professor told the Globe he is unsure whether her heritage came up, but is certain that, if it did, it had no bearing on his vote on Warren’s appointment.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2018/09/01/did-claiming-native-american-heritage-actually-help-elizabeth-warren-get-ahead-but-complicated/wUZZcrKKEOUv5Spnb7IO0K/story.html

Some alternate facts I guess. I've never heard her deny that she applied to Harvard as a Native American...

https://www.factcheck.org/2017/12/elizabeth-warrens-pocahontas-controversy/

Oh. So because the Harvard faculty said (after learning she lied)they didn't consider her Native American ancestry in the hiring, that makes it true? Harvard did a some advertising of their belief that they hired a Native American. They thought it was good, back then, that they had a Native American on their faculty.

The Boston Globe is liberal, Therefore it's automatically superior to everything that's not? You say so!!
I would think you would identify with her since you claim to be the token conservative for Connecticut
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Comments on Jim's link:

The following bolsers the arguement she listed herself as a minority back in possible 1986???

"The original Herald story also led to the disclosure that Warren had identified herself as a minority in the Association of American Law Schools directory for law professors from 1986 to 1995. It also came out that Warren was highlighted in a 2005 report from the University of Pennsylvania’s Minority Equity Committee as a minority recipient of a teaching award at Penn."

The following seems to bolster the arguement that she didn't try to take advantage of her minority status.

"It was also reported by the Boston Globe that Warren, on a 1973 application to the Rutgers Law School, declined to apply for admission under the Program for Minority Group Students, and that she listed herself as white on an undated personnel document at the University of Texas, where she worked from 1981 until 1987.

Warren, though, denies that she ever claimed to be a minority to secure employment. She said that she has always been recruited by employers based on her work.

“I never used it to get ahead,” she said in the Nov. 27 interview with Cooper. “I never used it to get into school. I never used it to get a job.”

Oh, Paul, she says she never did it to get ahead, I see...

In this piece (which is not a hit piece on her, it states that there's no proof she used her ancestry to get ahead), we learn that she listed herself in professional directories (commonly used to recruit) as a minority. She claims, that she listed herself that way, in hopes of "connecting with people like me". And if you believe that, I have a beautiful bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell at a reasonable price.

She listed herself as a minority, starting the year before she started working at UPenn, until after she started working at Harvard. But that timing is just a coincidence.

She also won an award at UPenn as a minority faculty member.

If you are not inclined to doubt anything any liberal ever says, you'll be fine with this. If you are inclined to believe that liberals cannot tell the truth, you'll be certain there was fraud. The truth is in the middle somewhere..


https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-controversy-over-elizabeth-warrens-claimed-native-american-heritage/2012/09/27/d0b7f568-08a5-11e2-a10c-fa5a255a9258_blog.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.db7a362ab225

Oh, Paul, she says she never did it to get ahead, I see...

In this piece (which is not a hit piece on her, it states that there's no proof she used her ancestry to get ahead), we learn that she listed herself in professional directories (commonly used to recruit) as a minority. She claims, that she listed herself that way, in hopes of "connecting with people like me". And if you believe that, I have a beautiful bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell at a reasonable price.

She listed herself as a minority, starting the year before she started working at UPenn, until after she started working at Harvard. But that timing is just a coincidence.

She also won an award at UPenn as a minority faculty member.

If you are not inclined to doubt anything any liberal ever says, you'll be fine with this. If you are inclined to believe that liberals cannot tell the truth, you'll be certain there was fraud. The truth is in the middle somewhere..


https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-controversy-over-elizabeth-warrens-claimed-native-american-heritage/2012/09/27/d0b7f568-08a5-11e2-a10c-fa5a255a9258_blog.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.db7a362ab225

The article gave 2 pinccohios to Romney. Also, you claimed that she claimed she was Native American when she applied for a job yet you have not shown 1 iota of proof she infact did that. Your trying to claim that the reason she listed herself in the directory so that can help get her a job yet when she actually applied for said jobs there is no proof she claimed she was a Native American.

From your article:

The Fact Checker expects accusers to satisfy the burden of proof for their charges. That was the case when Sen. Harry Reid (D-Nev.) said that GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney tried to avoid taxes with offshore accounts. We awarded four Pinocchios to Reid because the senator lacked conclusive evidence — or much evidence at all, for that matter. We’ve also knocked the Obama campaign repeatedly for jumping to unwarranted conclusions about Mitt Romney’s record at Bain Capital.

The outstanding questions about Warren’s directory listing — and her relying on family lore rather than official documentation to make an ethnic claim — certainly raise serious concerns about Warren’s judgment. But in the debate, the Republican incumbent conflated conjecture and sketchy information to make a claim not supported by the available evidence, and so he earns Two Pinocchios.