shot down a us drone yesterday. Getting very provocative. we need someone’s help (japan?) to walk things back. been a foreign policy challenge for decades, no easy solutions.

Cheeto will fix it fear not🤮
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This is the key who's being provocative. is the Drone us thinking they won't shoot it down or the shooting down of the drone. it's a trivial reason to go to war over loss of equipment ... it only takes 1 luckly shot to change history
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This is the key who's being provocative. is the Drone us thinking they won't shoot it down or the shooting down of the drone. it's a trivial reason to go to war over loss of equipment ... it only takes 1 luckly shot to change history
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the drone was in international
waters, not over iran. they shot it down, they attacked two tankers last week. pretty clear who’s being provocative, isn’t it?
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Cheeto will fix it fear not🤮
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what would
Obama have done? send them
another jet full of cash in the
middle of the night? does that work with maniacs?

no easy solutions to this one, none of the past several presidents, includes both parties, accomplished much good in that region.
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I want to know if it was over international air space, if it was then Trump’s comment saying it was a minor incident is all about his thinking process for his 2020 re-election. You pulled out of the deal, you hit them in their pocket book thinking they would re negotiate (not happening) and now you have to deal with the ramifications. Not a good situation.
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If it wasn't so scary it would be laughable watching this Admin. telling Iran to adhere to the Nuclear agreement Trump backed out of.

I want to know if it was over international air space, if it was then Trump’s comment saying it was a minor incident is all about his thinking process for his 2020 re-election. You pulled out of the deal, you hit them in their pocket book thinking they would re negotiate (not happening) and now you have to deal with the ramifications. Not a good situation.
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This shows you are paying attention,that’s good. Can you now explain the last time we experienced a good situation with Iran?
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Never, but we have never had such a thin skinned reactionary president in office either, so my comfort level is lower then it would be for any other similar situation in the past.
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I thought he said he would have the best people.
In the WH you have Bolton and Pompeo, who have both pushed for regime change in Iran for years and Senator Cotton is in Trump's ear to attack Iran.
In the Pentagon, we have neither a secretary nor a deputy secretary of defense. The secretary of the Army, who has very little background in strategy—his previous government position was a sixth-degree deputy assistant secretary—is now the acting secretary. And just for good measure, the secretary of the Air Force post is also vacant.

As of now, the leading candidate for the top job at defense seems to be Veteran Affairs Secretary Robert Wilkie, who misled the Congress during his hearings on his ties with pro-Confederate groups and whose first job was working for the late Senator Jesse Helms.

The current secretary of the Navy has zero strategy background and came from the private sector. We don’t have an Undersecretary for Readiness and Personnel as services are failing to meet their recruitment goals and are struggling with retention more than ever. We don’t have an assistant secretary for International Security Affairs which concerns the Middle East and European security—even as tensions with Iran are rising and Russia is trying to test deterrence in Europe while the president publicly undermines NATO.

America’s security is in jeopardy and no one is minding the store. Literally.
Don't you feel safer now.

Never, but we have never had such a thin skinned reactionary president in office either, so my comfort level is lower then it would be for any other similar situation in the past.
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what evidence is there, to suggest that a more polished, academic, diplomatic president, would get better results with Iran. Carter was a very nice man, right? Iran steamrolled him, humiliated him, made him look like a castrated eunuch.
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Don’t confuse them about Trump shirking his duties to appoint good people and fill post desperately needed, it’s all about how good the economy is; we all know a Trump is 100% responsible for that🤮
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trump is still better than any of the alternatives :bl:

Boy is your bar low.🤢
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Boy is your bar low.��
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name one




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We talking past presidents, we talking candidates, even as much as I disliked Hilary; with her experience I’d be far more confident. This isn’t a reality TV show, you can’t stop the filming and do a retake.
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We talking past presidents, we talking candidates, even as much as I disliked Hilary; with her experience I’d be far more confident. This isn’t a reality TV show, you can’t stop the filming and do a retake.
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"alternatives"....I don't think past presidents are an alternative particularly the dead ones



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Well throw a dart and you will hit someone with more experience than this reality TV star.

Well throw a dart and you will hit someone with more experience than this reality TV star.

if that’s all he is, how did he annihilate the most inevitable winner ever, and why is the economy doing so well?
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Never, but we have never had such a thin skinned reactionary president in office either, so my comfort level is lower then it would be for any other similar situation in the past.
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Sorry to hear your comfort level has been altered. How does it feel?
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what evidence is there, to suggest that a more polished, academic, diplomatic president, would get better results with Iran.
How about the JCPOA. A deal sanctioned by the global community, a deal that Trump's own Jim Mattis praised as having robust enforcement and a deal that the IAEA said was working as planned.

It didn't fix everything but was a solid foundation to address significant issues. Now we're flirting with a conflict that could easily spiral out of control. I do wonder how much SA is really behind most of this.

How about the JCPOA. A deal sanctioned by the global community, a deal that Trump's own Jim Mattis praised as having robust enforcement and a deal that the IAEA said was working as planned.

It didn't fix everything but was a solid foundation to address significant issues. Now we're flirting with a conflict that could easily spiral out of control. I do wonder how much SA is really behind most of this.

what about that deal ( sincere question) would have incentivized them not to attack the tankers?
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what about that deal ( sincere question) would have incentivized them not to attack the tankers?
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I know of no other deal other than the 12 items of total capitulation demanded by John Bolton via the State Department.

I know of no other deal other than the 12 items of total capitulation demanded by John Bolton via the State Department.

no i said that poorly, i wasn’t referring to another deal. i was asking about the deal you mentioned, i was wondering if that deal would
have put us in a better place right now.
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Well the deal until Trump pulled us out was working and tankers weren't being blown up and our 100 million dollar drones weren't being shot out of the sky, so I guess that was a rhetorical question. Loved Trumps more recent remarks stating he believes the drone attack was unintentional, done by someone doing what they shouldn't be doing, there is a guy who's finger is on the pulse of the world stage and with a full understanding of the chain of command and ramifications in this country and our foes.

We are talking about the same Iran that was blowing up our kids in Iraq? Causing Sh1t in Yemen, SA, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Isreal, Gaza, West Bank - that Iran?

They shot down an unmanned drone in International Airspace. Sounds like a US Navy BAMS-D according to smart people. This is the Navy's testing version of the USAF Global Hawk which the Navy will procure for Maritime Reconnaissance.

Fortunately it was unammaned, so that the response, if physical, does not need to be excessive.

Keep the sanctions going, keep the pressure on. Not worth kicking in Earnest Will Part Deaux.

Not sure why people are surprised with this shoot down. What usually happen when you put an entire nation in a corner... they bite they push back .. trump had choices with Iran he chose to go it alone.. Europe wont be all in like Iraq ...
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Not sure why people are surprised with this shoot down. What usually happen when you put an entire nation in a corner... they bite they push back .. trump had choices with Iran he chose to go it alone.. Europe wont be all in like Iraq ...
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So Wayne, what is your recommendation for dealing with Iran?

Having a leader who doesn’t read, doesn’t like or believe what he hears in briefings, governs by tweet and even goes so far as to warn Iran we are about to strike is NOT how this situation gets diffused. IF that drone was downed in international airspace a strong president would have immediately responded militarily, Trump is a paper Twitter tiger, growls loudly, but has no claws or bite. He brought this on himself and he is clueless on how to deal with it. Middle East problems demand understanding, diplomacy and military strategy which escapes Trump across the board.
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Having a leader who doesn’t read, doesn’t like or believe what he hears in briefings, governs by tweet and even goes so far as to warn Iran we are about to strike is NOT how this situation gets diffused. IF that drone was downed in international airspace a strong president would have immediately responded militarily, Trump is a paper Twitter tiger, growls loudly, but has no claws or bite. He brought this on himself and he is clueless on how to deal with it. Middle East problems demand understanding, diplomacy and military strategy which escapes Trump across the board.
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Maybe you are qualified as an advisor. Lots of great,unexplored ideas here.👍🏿
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No you need to be a family member or work for Fox News.
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Having a leader who doesn’t read, doesn’t like or believe what he hears in briefings, governs by tweet and even goes so far as to warn Iran we are about to strike is NOT how this situation gets diffused. IF that drone was downed in international airspace a strong president would have immediately responded militarily, Trump is a paper Twitter tiger, growls loudly, but has no claws or bite. He brought this on himself and he is clueless on how to deal with it. Middle East problems demand understanding, diplomacy and military strategy which escapes Trump across the board.
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we’ve had every conceiveable kind
if president over my lifetime, none has done
anything to improve things there. so i can point to what all of them have done since jimmy carter, and what kind of president they were? and conclude that every single one of them failed miserable at getting Iran in line. we’ve tried everything except invading, and nothing has worked ( not supporting invasion, just saying that intellectual
articulate presidents also failed regarding iran).

Let’s not pretend Trump caused this, or that his personality is making it much worse than it was. they’re a rogue state that sponsors terrorists and helps them kill innocent people. none of our presidents has changed that much.

obama tried to pay them off, howd that work out?

the problem isn’t trump. it’s iran. our friendship with israel, who Iran hates, makes it very tricky.
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we should draft condaleeza rice into service, and lock her in a room with the mullahs until they work it out.
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IF that drone was downed in international airspace a strong president would have immediately responded militarily, Trump is a paper Twitter tiger, growls loudly, but has no claws or bite.
I'm sure there's gamesmanship on both sides. Dialing in a retaliatory strike is easier said than done. As much as you can point to Iran's bad behavior the situation as it stands today was engineered to coerce concessions and Iran will likely be seen as being bullied regardless of what we do. That to a large degree is a product of the Trump admin's recent policy and driven by the Iran hawks he's given the keys to. I can't believe if Mattis was still Sec Def we'd be approaching the situation in the same manner.

I'm sure there's gamesmanship on both sides. Dialing in a retaliatory strike is easier said than done. As much as you can point to Iran's bad behavior the situation as it stands today was engineered to coerce concessions and Iran will likely be seen as being bullied regardless of what we do. That to a large degree is a product of the Trump admin's recent policy and driven by the Iran hawks he's given the keys to. I can't believe if Mattis was still Sec Def we'd be approaching the situation in the same manner.

i find
myself missing Mattis and Condaleeza Rice.
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So Wayne, what is your recommendation for dealing with Iran?

Should have let the agreement play out.. we were dealing with them prior to Trump but Trump was more concerned with. Undoing anything Obama. Just to say he did ... and that's the real issue
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general trump is showing great restraint...if he'd retaliated the iranians would show pictures of dead women and children and then we'd have to listen to the democraps and media go on and on about how trump kills women and children...


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general trump is showing great restraint...if he'd retaliated the iranians would show pictures of dead women and children and then we'd have to listen to the democraps and media go on and on about how trump kills women and children...


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I agree with him 100% that the response would not have been proportional.. 1st presidential thing ever to come from his lips
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I agree with him 100% that the response would not have been proportional.. 1st presidential thing ever to come from his lips
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Probably all staged :biglaugh:

Having a leader who doesn’t read, doesn’t like or believe what he hears in briefings, governs by tweet and even goes so far as to warn Iran we are about to strike is NOT how this situation gets diffused. IF that drone was downed in international airspace a strong president would have immediately responded militarily, Trump is a paper Twitter tiger, growls loudly, but has no claws or bite. He brought this on himself and he is clueless on how to deal with it. Middle East problems demand understanding, diplomacy and military strategy which escapes Trump across the board.
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If it was a manned aircraft, yes. It was unmanned (one reason we use them) and the engagement level is lower than if it were manned.

So what is it? Is Trump dangerous because he is a war monger? Or is he more dangerous because he was not a war monger?

If it was a manned aircraft, yes. It was unmanned (one reason we use them) and the engagement level is lower than if it were manned.

So what is it? Is Trump dangerous because he is a war monger? Or is he more dangerous because he was not a war monger?

bingo. if we
bombed those sites and killed some folks, the trump haters would
say he's bloodthirsty and should have tried diplomacy. because he showed restraint, the same
exact people
will say he’s too soft. it doesn’t matter what he does. the problem
is his existence, not what he does.
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So what is it? Is Trump dangerous because he is a war monger? Or is he more dangerous because he was not a war monger?
Dangerous because he’s being played by war mongers and can’t see beyond the next news cycle.
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Dangerous because he’s being played by war mongers and can’t see beyond the next news cycle.
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But it looks like here he didn't get played by War Mongers. I am not a fan. We could have had a better pres.

BTW - the US may have launched new cyber attacks on Iran.

https://news.yahoo.com/pentagon-secretly-struck-back-against-iranian-cyber-spies-targeting-us-ships-234520824.html?soc_src=hl-viewer&soc_trk=tw

Dangerous because he’s being played by war mongers and can’t see beyond the next news cycle.
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he called off the strike. how is that getting played by the war
mongers?
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he called off the strike. how is that getting played by the war
mongers?
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Do you honestly believe anything they say?
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Do you honestly believe anything they say?
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i don’t refuse to
believe everything that goes against my agenda.
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it's funny to see who the bitter clingers really are


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Who knows what the actual decisions were, but reporting now indicates Trump ordered the attack and possibly due to Bolton’s advice and then senior pentagon officials may have gotten him to cancel. If that’s true and it certainly falls right into his playbook, is that a strong smart president, sits down with all the key people, weighs the pros and cons, then makes the call and sticks with it. This is typical reactionary Trump, hears from someone he likes and goes off quickly in that direction, walking things back is his MO.
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Who knows what the actual decisions were
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None of us do but I am sure you will make something up and cry wolf.
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Who knows what the actual decisions were, but reporting now indicates Trump ordered the attack and possibly due to Bolton’s advice and then senior pentagon officials may have gotten him to cancel. If that’s true and it certainly falls right into his playbook, is that a strong smart president, sits down with all the key people, weighs the pros and cons, then makes the call and sticks with it. This is typical reactionary Trump, hears from someone he likes and goes off quickly in that direction, walking things back is his MO.
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it's impressive how you make everything fit your narrative


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it's impressive how you make everything fit your narrative


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they can really bend
the reality to fit their agenda.
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they can really bend
the reality to fit their agenda.
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you should know .....:kewl:

it's impressive how you make everything fit your narrative


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Trump has a new slogan, make Iran great again🤪
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Trump has a new slogan, make Iran great again🤪
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Next thing you know he will send them boatloads of money overnight. Cuz you know, they are good folks.
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Next thing you know he will send them boatloads of money overnight. Cuz you know, they are good folks.
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Had nothing to do with them being good folks.
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Had nothing to do with them being good folks.
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Probably had nudes of Michelle
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Had nothing to do with them being good folks.
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Thank you for the flash bulletin Jeff.
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Thank you for the flash bulletin Jeff.
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Of, that one hurt. Must have been a TDF-SD collaboration.
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Of, that one hurt. Must have been a TDF-SD collaboration.
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he’s increasing sanctions, and he
let the Iranians know that it was very close to being worse for them. Trump has done things i can not stand. i think he handled this about as well as it could
have been handled.

he had a few options, and no matter what he did, the
liberals in the media would have attacked him for it, and you would have sucked it up
like a Hoover deluxe.

what would
you have had him do? Nothing? Send them more cash?
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I would rather he built a coalition, than send Pompeo after the fact to the Middle East to try and assemble one, or put one back together depending on your viewpoint.

America First (Alone) is not an example of good leadership.

Here's the countries that were in the Gulf War coalition and regardless of how you feel about the Gulf War, the diplomatic and military leadership was incredibly skilled. I don't see that happening with this President.

The Allied coalition was made up of 39 countries: Afghanistan, Argentina, Australia, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belgium, Canada, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Egypt, France, Germany, Greece, Honduras, Hungary, Italy, Kuwait, Morocco, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Niger, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Singapore, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Syria, Turkey, the United Arab Emirates, the United Kingdom and the United States.

The US Department of Defense has estimated the incremental costs of the Gulf War at $61 billion, with US allies providing about $54 billion of that -- Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states covered $36 billion. Germany and Japan covered $16 billion.

I would rather he built a coalition

for killing a drone?

for killing a drone?

for attacking the tankers, the whole world should be abandoning Iran. But if Trump took the time to build a coalition, the TDS crowd would attack him for stalling and not being decisive.
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for killing a drone?

for attacking the tankers, the whole world should be abandoning Iran. But if Trump took the time to build a coalition, the TDS crowd would attack him for stalling and not being decisive.
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Much like Trump's comments on Kashoggi and MBS, the UAE now says they have seen no proof that Iran was responsible. Perhaps they are concerned that Bolton is repeating the mistakes made in Iraq, but with a more powerful adversary.

Or they realize that politically the Iranian politicians cannot be seen by their citizens as losers and need to be able to claim some victory before negotiating.

What Iran has done to date is very limited, odd how they just damaged some tankers by placing limpet mines at the waterline or above and shot down a drone. Do you think they don't have the capability to do much more damage just with limpet mines? In 1971 Pakistan in one night suffered the loss of 60 thousand tons of shipping from limpet mines, that's likely why the Indian navy is in the Gulf now.

Now we get to see if Trump is capable of complicated diplomatic negotiations, I've seen little evidence so far that he is capable of being anything other than a bully.