Petrushka [Archive] - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

Pete F.

10-07-2019, 02:47 PM

Here are some comments from Brent McGurk, President Trump's former Special Presidential Envoy to Counter ISIS

Donald Trump is not a Commander-in-Chief. He makes impulsive decisions with no knowledge or deliberation. He sends military personnel into harm’s way with no backing. He blusters and then leaves our allies exposed when adversaries call his bluff or he confronts a hard phone call.

The WH statement tonight on Syria after Trump spoke with Erdogan demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of anything happening on the ground. The “United States” is not holding any ISIS detainees. They are all being held by the SDF, which Trump just served up to Turkey.

Turkey has neither the intent, desire, nor capacity to manage 60k detainees in al Hol camp, which State and DoD IGs warn is the nucleus for a resurgent ISIS. Believing otherwise is a reckless gamble with our national security. Background here https://thesoufancenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/FTF-Open-Letter.pdf

The Turkish proposed “safe zone” would effectively extend Turkey’s border 30km into Syria, including areas of Christians, Kurds, and other vulnerable minorities. Our diplomats were working on a plan to forestall such a debacle. Where’s Pompeo?

Indeed, US officials signed the SDF up to a “security mechanism” plan by which it removed all defensive barriers on the Syrian side of the border to forestall a Turkish incursion. EUCOM issued this just yesterday. Was Trump ever even briefed on this plan?

Trump made a similarly impulsive decision when I was managing the policy. I resigned over it and stand by every word in this op-ed. Tonight is a sad replay but seems even worse as US officials had since convinced the SDF that we planned to stay.

There’s a similar defect at the core of US foreign policies across the board: maximalist objectives for a minimalist president combined with no process to assess facts, develop options, or prepare contingencies. Our personnel are left exposed at the slightest moment of friction.

Bottom line: Trump tonight after one call with a foreign leader provided a gift to Russia, Iran, and ISIS. FWIW, I warned of this here in Foreign Affairs https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/syria/2019-04-16/hard-truths-syria and recommended alternatives given the hard realities on the ground and in this White House.

PS I didn't have any idea what TDF's children identified as but given his post earlier and the image he identified with, you likely can understand the confusion.

PaulS

10-07-2019, 02:59 PM

silly me, i was under the impression that when Pete went after TDFs daughters specifically, that was an insult. Spence has never disagreed with me without insulting me. but those don’t count. very enlightening.
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If you don't think you insulted more people here than anyone else you're living in a fantasy world
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Pete F.

10-07-2019, 03:07 PM

That didn't take long, let's see what spineless Trump does now.
He was rolled yesterday by Ergodan, not surprising considering that one of his many false claims is to be a great negotiator.

Jerusalem Post Breaking News
TURKEY ATTACKS KURDS, SDF IN IRAQ, SYRIA AS U.S. WITHDRAWS
BY JERUSALEM POST STAFF OCTOBER 7, 2019 22:34

Breaking news
Breaking news. (photo credit: JPOST STAFF)

Turkish forces carried out attacks against Kurdish forces and the anti-Assad Syrian Democratic Forces militia in Syria and Iraq near the Turkish border on Monday evening.

Turkish forces attacked SDF positions in the city of al-Malikiyah in northern Syria, according to Syrian state news agency SANA.The Turkish Air Force "neutralized" three PKK (Kurdistan Workers' Party) members in northern Iraq on Monday, according to the Turkish National Defense Ministry, reported the Turkish Anadolu Agency.

The attacks were carried out in the Gara region near the Turkey-Iraq border.

Earlier on Monday, the United States announced that it would be withdrawing from Syria.

Sea Dangles

10-07-2019, 03:14 PM

If you don't think you insulted more people here than anyone else you're living in a fantasy world
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Why don’t you stfu with your victim act. We know you are a snowflake but you have to jam it down our throat just to stick out as the leader of stupidity. Good grief, do you have my pity.
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Got Stripers

10-07-2019, 03:33 PM

NK: Fire and fury, little Rocket Man plays Trump, Trump legitimizes this horrific regime, Kim keeps testing.

Russia: Putin helps Trump in 2016, plays Trump like a fiddle, locks pee tapes up for later use, Trump does Putin's dirty work for him.

China: Trump tries to play hard ball, China knows it can wait him out, trade war costing US consumers and Trump needs to bail out farmers to save face.

Iran: Trump pulls out of agreement thinking he is going to play hard ball to get better deal, all the while pissing off our allies. Iran starts to play it's own game of hard ball, seizing tankers and blowing up 50% of the Saudia's oil production, in addition to shooting down a multi-million dollar US drone.

Ukraine: Trump knows Putin would like to get a little more territory and he feels he can help his bud, while at the same time delaying military aid to get some dirt on his 2016 main rival.

Finland: Possibly Trump was after another cold lily white purchase since the Greenland purchase fell flat.

Nato and Allies: Trump says I know more than all of you combined, so go f*ck yourselves, I'm building Trump Island and it's going to be the best ever.

Foreign policy at it's finest. Actually his policy is send all your ambassadors and envoys to my family run resorts and hotels and we can talk..........wink...wink. Call me, but only on my private number please.

PaulS

10-07-2019, 04:18 PM

Why don’t you stfu with your victim act. We know you are a snowflake but you have to jam it down our throat just to stick out as the leader of stupidity. Good grief, do you have my pity.
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Mr irrelevant
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spence

10-07-2019, 06:39 PM

Spence has never disagreed with me without insulting me. but those don’t count. very enlightening.
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I don't understand this at all. At times I've pointed out where I think you're not doing your homework. That's not an insult. To be honest the constant dribble of snowflake, #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& and the crap that Dangles spews goes beyond locker room talk...it's just stupid and immature. Seriously Jim I'm surprised you get into it.

Pete F.

10-07-2019, 09:34 PM

Nothing to worry about the Stable Genius has it covered with his great and unmatched wisdom, got it?

Trump's announcement on Syria plus the Ukraine scandal, from a European intel source: "The world order is collapsing in front of our eyes"
The Trump administration is pulling out of the Open Skies Treaty, which allows the United States and our allies and partners in Europe to monitor Russian military deployments. Withdrawal risks dividing the transatlantic alliance.
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scottw

10-08-2019, 01:38 AM

from a European intel source: "The world order is collapsing in front of our eyes"

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is her name Greta?

Pete F.

10-08-2019, 05:58 AM

Sometimes the only way to explain / predict Trump's foreign policy is to think "what would Putin want the US to do?"
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wdmso

10-08-2019, 06:00 AM

TRUMP if Turkey does anything that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, consider to be off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey .

Great and unmatched wisdom....

Makes you feel confident in whos running the country dosen't

Not sure if knows they are allies in a thing called NATO
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Jim in CT

10-08-2019, 06:22 AM

“the world order is collapsing before our eyes”

in what world, Pete? not here on Earth.
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Jim in CT

10-08-2019, 06:22 AM

is her name Greta?

well played sir.
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Pete F.

10-08-2019, 06:32 AM

“the world order is collapsing before our eyes”

in what world, Pete? not here on Earth.
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In Trumpworld all is great, step outside the studio. There’s a real world.

Remember, the Kurds on the ground defeated ISIS, not wee Donnie Bonespurs Trump.

Just keep believing Putin’s Puppet

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Sea Dangles

10-08-2019, 06:35 AM

In Trumpworld all is great, step outside the studio. There’s a real world.

Remember, the Kurds on the ground defeated ISIS, not wee Donnie Bonespurs Trump.

Just keep believing Putin’s Puppet

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The Kurds aren’t going anywhere so they should be fine without him.
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Pete F.

10-08-2019, 07:04 AM

Ask an Armenian, why you would want to worry about Turks
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Jim in CT

10-08-2019, 07:37 AM

In Trumpworld all is great, step outside the studio. There’s a real world.

Remember, the Kurds on the ground defeated ISIS, not wee Donnie Bonespurs Trump.

Just keep believing Putin’s Puppet

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no one said all is great. you said it’s all collapsing. not true.
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Jim in CT

10-08-2019, 07:39 AM

In Trumpworld all is great, step outside the studio. There’s a real world.

Remember, the Kurds on the ground defeated ISIS, not wee Donnie Bonespurs Trump.

Just keep believing Putin’s Puppet

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you’re saying that moving 250 troops out of syria, is going to cause world order to collapse? can we be clear, that’s what you’re saying?

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Sea Dangles

10-08-2019, 08:25 AM

Ask an Armenian, why you would want to worry about Turks
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Ask the indigenous people why you should worry about the white man.
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Jim in CT

10-08-2019, 08:27 AM

Ask an Armenian, why you would want to worry about Turks
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but why are we the only ones on the planet who pony up? we’ve had a presence there for years, we took the lead. when is it someone else’s turn.

and as scott said, if trump
was determined to stay forever, there are those who would
attack him for that.
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Pete F.

10-08-2019, 08:46 AM

you’re saying that moving 250 troops out of syria, is going to cause world order to collapse? can we be clear, that’s what you’re saying?

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If only life were so simple.

Read some news from outside Trumpworld and don't feel limited to the few clips I post.

Just keep believing Putin's Puppet and his great and unmatched wisdom.

The Irish Times and remember we "were" THE world power.
In Britain and the US, the idea that the EU could aspire to be a superpower is usually treated as either ludicrous or sinister.

So when Guy Verhofstadt, a prominent member of the European Parliament, recently made the case for the EU to be part of an emerging “world order that is based on empires”, there was a predictable backlash. At the Conservative party conference a few days ago, his words, taken from a speech to their anti-Brexit enemies the Liberal Democrats, were cited as evidence of the dangerous imperial ambitions of the EU - and proof that leaving the bloc is the UK’s only safe option.

Mr Verhofstadt can be arrogant. But, in this case, he also happens to be right. The rise of China and India, and the America First policies of Donald Trump’s US, makes it more important than ever that European countries defend their interests collectively.

The EU once dreamt that the whole world would move towards a law-based system, similar to the EU method. But a world order, shaped by Xi Jinping’s China and Trump’s America, will be based on power rather than rules. The outbreak of a global trade war underlines that small European countries can no longer rely on international rules to protect them. They need the bulk and heft that the EU provides.

The former Belgian prime minister’s choice of the word “empire” - with its connotations of conquest - was unfortunate. The EU is an empire by invitation. Nobody is forced to join. And, despite the difficulties of Brexit, any member is free to leave. It would be more accurate to say that the EU can and should aspire to be a superpower - one of four or five major global powers, capable of shaping the world order.

The Telegraph from the UK
Donald Trump has abandoned Syria for short-term political gain. We will all pay a terrible price for his folly

Financial Review from Australia
EU, too, needs to flex its muscles under the new world order
The EU once dreamt the whole world would move towards a law-based system, but a world order, shaped by Xi Jinping’s China and Trump’s America, will be based on power rather than rules.

From the BESA center Israel
The American withdrawals from the agreements with Russia and Iran are but two examples of a far broader breakdown in adherence to international law, norms, and procedures fueled by President Donald Trump’s disdain for key pillars of the US-led, post-WWII order.

Trump has walked away from the Paris accord on climate change as well as the Trans-Pacific Partnership and cast doubt on the US commitment to multiple other multilateral arrangements, including the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), the EU, and the G7, which brings together the West’s largest economies.

America’s rivals, China and Russia, as well as Iran, Turkey, and Saudi Arabia, have countered US unilateralism with calls for a strengthening of multilateralism – albeit one in which they can use the arms trade to leverage their geopolitical weight and fight wars with absolute disregard for the human consequences, and brutally repress minorities of any ethnic, religious, or political stripe.

Trump’s “America First” approach has emboldened leaders backed by Russia and China, including Erdoğan, to more aggressively challenge the existing order and more blatantly violate its underpinnings.

The Korea Herald from South Korea
This year marks the 75th anniversary of the Bretton Woods Agreement, which laid the foundation of the liberal economic order in the post-World War era and led to the establishment of the International Monetary Fund and World Bank.

But it is also likely to be remembered as the turning point in history when leading economies essentially confirmed the denial of liberalism, regressing to nationalist and populist ideals.

The rise of Donald Trump as US president signaled the end of the liberal world order that had prevailed for most of the 20th century, as the Council on Foreign Relations President Richard Haass wrote in his landmark column “Liberal world order, R.I.P.” in March 2018.

As noted in its recent set of policies, the world’s most powerful country has been gesturing to depart from its long-held role as guardian of liberalism.

The Trump administration’s anti-liberalism actions included scrapping the 2015 nuclear deal with Iran, and withdrawing from the Paris Climate Agreement, Trans-Pacific Partnership and UNESCO.

As for the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, the US president labeled it “obsolete,” denying its function as a forerunner institution in the Western liberal-democratic world.

“The liberal world order cannot survive on its own, because others (than the US) lack either the interest or the means to sustain it,” Haass wrote.

“The result will be a world that is less free, less prosperous, and less peaceful, for Americans and others alike.”

Confirming Haass’ pessimistic analysis was the Group of 20 summit held in Osaka, Japan, in June this year, where the world’s major economies failed to include the issue of trade protectionism in their final communique, mainly due to disapproval from the US.

Pete F.

10-08-2019, 09:31 AM

Gov Mike Hucabee tweets
I generally support @POTUS on foreign policy & don't want our troops fighting other nations' wars, but a HUGE mistake to abandon Kurds. They've never asked us to do THEIR fighting-just give them tools to defend themselves. They have been faithful allies. We CANNOT abandon them.

So it’s obvious Huckabee clearly doesn’t understand the dynamics of the global hotel business and its role in modern Foreign Policy development.
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Jim in CT

10-08-2019, 10:31 AM

scottw

10-08-2019, 11:05 AM

the few clips I post.

:spin::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:

Pete F.

10-08-2019, 11:13 AM

senator rand paul agrees with trump, he’s more of
an isolationist i guess, who is adamantly opposed to committing us troops to endless fighting in such places. i haven’t heard many other people agree with what trump is doing. if it had to do with hotels in turkey he should be arrested. if he honestly wants to bring troops away from conflicts that may never end, isn’t there an argument to be made for that?
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If you have the attitude that there is always another rube to take advantage of, get the job done and move on to another it's fine.
That is Trump's historical MO, burning banks and subs. That's how you get involved in 3500 lawsuits.

But in the real world we need allies, sooner or later and we need them to trust us. Guaranteed there has been collateral damage over the years, but not in your face like this.

Remember what the Bushes put together in the Middle East in days.

That's why the Kurds, Afghanistan, Albania, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, Colombia, the Czech Republic, Denmark, El Salvador, Eritrea, Estonia, Ethiopia, Georgia, Hungary, Italy, Japan, South Korea, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, the Netherlands, Nicaragua, the Philippines, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Spain, Turkey, United Kingdom and Uzbekistan and others matter.

Do you think Trump is capable of that kind of coordination and diplomacy?

And when all is said and done what did Erdogan get for not going public with all he knew on Kashoggi? There is a lot more to that story than is currently known.

scottw

10-08-2019, 11:15 AM

"peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none" — Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address.

Jim in CT

10-08-2019, 12:22 PM

If you have the attitude that there is always another rube to take advantage of, get the job done and move on to another it's fine.
That is Trump's historical MO, burning banks and subs. That's how you get involved in 3500 lawsuits.

But in the real world we need allies, sooner or later and we need them to trust us. Guaranteed there has been collateral damage over the years, but not in your face like this.

Remember what the Bushes put together in the Middle East in days.

That's why the Kurds, Afghanistan, Albania, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, Colombia, the Czech Republic, Denmark, El Salvador, Eritrea, Estonia, Ethiopia, Georgia, Hungary, Italy, Japan, South Korea, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, the Netherlands, Nicaragua, the Philippines, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Spain, Turkey, United Kingdom and Uzbekistan and others matter.

Do you think Trump is capable of that kind of coordination and diplomacy?

And when all is said and done what did Erdogan get for not going public with all he knew on Kashoggi? There is a lot more to that story than is currently known.

yes we need allies. and the years we spent fighting with the kurds, mean nothing?

pete, do you recall all the liberals
bashing bush for staying in iraq through the surge,,they all said bush was a war hawk who should have brought the troops
home. the democrats took control of congress with the message that it was time
to get out.

so can you see where i’m coming from, when i say it all
appears political? people
claim to believe one thing, then the other party gets control
and they say the opposite.

republicans attacked obama
for running up debt, and 95% say nothing when trump does the same. that’s the hypocrisy i have no use for.

you are right, 100% correct, we need allies. does that mean american teenagers need to die there forever? can we send them equipment but bring our
kids home? and the fact that americans have died there ( 5 this year) means nothing to
the kurds unless we stay forever?
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Pete F.

10-08-2019, 12:45 PM

yes we need allies. and the years we spent fighting with the kurds, mean nothing?

pete, do you recall all the liberals
bashing bush for staying in iraq through the surge,,they all said bush was a war hawk who should have brought the troops
home. the democrats took control of congress with the message that it was time
to get out.

so can you see where i’m coming from, when i say it all
appears political? people
claim to believe one thing, then the other party gets control
and they say the opposite.

Look at these articles and notice the date

https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2016/08/01/hillary-clinton-email-scandal-disqualify-her/

https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/08/impeach-hillary-clinton-constitution-remedy-corruption-impeachment/

republicans attacked obama
for running up debt, and 95% say nothing when trump does the same. that’s the hypocrisy i have no use for.

you are right, 100% correct, we need allies. does that mean american teenagers need to die there forever? can we send them equipment but bring our
kids home? and the fact that americans have died there ( 5 this year) means nothing to
the kurds unless we stay forever?
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We might end up there for the foreseeable future, like Korea and NATO. That's part of the price of being the biggest arms dealer in the world.

I don't think pulling out, putting your head in the sand and doing thoughts and prayers is a viable alternative.

Got Stripers

10-08-2019, 02:01 PM

Jim in CT

10-08-2019, 02:14 PM

Best quote ever. Ben Rhodes, who formerly served as deputy national security adviser to President Barack Obama, tweeted, "Sometimes the only way to explain/predict Trump's foreign policy is to think 'what would Putin want the US to do?'"
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so ben rhodes presumably was on board with obama making fun of Mitt Romney, when Romney suggested that Russia was a major adversary? remember that? obama made fun of romney for saying that, and all the liberals
laughed hysterically.
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scottw

10-08-2019, 02:35 PM

Best quote ever.

really?

scottw

10-08-2019, 02:37 PM

I think it's funny that peto is starting threads now and just replying to himself:smash:

Got Stripers

10-08-2019, 03:55 PM

really?

Pretty sure you know it wasn’t meant literally, best quote recently on interpretation of Trumps foreign policy.
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scottw

10-08-2019, 04:35 PM

Pretty sure you know it wasn’t meant literally, best quote recently on interpretation of Trumps foreign policy.
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That’s debatable. You sound desperate
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Got Stripers

10-08-2019, 04:39 PM

That’s debatable. You sound desperate
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Not at all, if you want to watch desperate, tune into Fox or watch the next Trump conference on the lawn, I’m having fun watching the melt down. Better than some of the Netflix shows I’m watching.
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spence

10-08-2019, 05:17 PM

Not at all, if you want to watch desperate, tune into Fox or watch the next Trump conference on the lawn, I’m having fun watching the melt down. Better than some of the Netflix shows I’m watching.
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It's not funny it's concerning. Trump is basically saying Congress can't investigate me. This is quickly become a constitutional crisis in the middle of many foreign policy threats. God forbid if something really bad happens we can't respond via a knee jerk tweet.

scottw

10-08-2019, 05:32 PM

It's not funny it's concerning. Trump is basically saying Congress can't investigate me. This is quickly become a constitutional crisis in the middle of many foreign policy threats. God forbid if something really bad happens we can't respond via a knee jerk tweet.

Tito, get Spence a tissue.....

Got Stripers

10-08-2019, 05:34 PM

Oh I know it’s anything but funny, in fact the world is always one conflict away from pulling us into another war, but even so it’s hard not to laugh at some of the BS coming out of the White House and GOP.
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scottw

10-08-2019, 05:39 PM

dummycraps have been drooling to impeach him since the morning of the election...it's pretty pathetic and unpatriotic

Got Stripers

10-08-2019, 05:47 PM

scottw

10-08-2019, 06:15 PM

Want to talk pathetic, how about Trump helping Turkey to invade the Kurds by pulling our troops out, the Kurds by the way are guarded the 10000 Isis jailed fighters, most swearing to go after the US if they get out. Those troops guarding those nuts are moving to the front as soon as needed, a massive jailbreak might be looming on the horizon. All that talk about Isis being defeating is probably as usual in Trump world just talk.
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every time you cackle about something....it ends up being just cackling....it's like spence's predictions :jester:

I was SHOCKED to read this :rollem:

The anonymous member of the intelligence community who filed the whistleblower complaint against President Trump that has resulted in a formal impeachment probe against him reportedly had a professional relationship with one of the 2020 Democratic presidential candidates.

Three people familiar with the situation said the Intelligence Community’s inspector general, Michael Atkinson, revealed during closed-door interviews with Republicans that the whistleblower, reportedly a registered Democrat, had a prior work relationship with one of the current Democratic presidential contenders, according to a report in the Washington Examiner published Tuesday.

Pete F.

10-09-2019, 07:12 AM

Got Stripers

10-09-2019, 07:28 AM

Not to worry, we have a leader with great and unmatched wisdom, his thumbs will tweet out a solution, one our enemies will probably understand more easily than our allies. Keep saying how good we have it back home, if the Middle East blows up with the poor handling by Trump, guess what our economy is tied closely to what happens world wide. I hope the Republicans continue to push hard against what Trump is proposing.

Kurds lost 10,000 plus, much more wounded helping up the US fight ISIS and we lost a dozen soldiers, but Trump needs to make a political move to gain what he sees as a political win or fulfillment of a campaign promise. The world is watching with glee (enemy’s) or shock (allies) at what is happening with US foreign policy.
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scottw

10-09-2019, 07:40 AM

Sources tell me that US officials have just

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hey peto, how do your sources inform you?....is it telepathically or smoke signal?

Jim in CT

10-09-2019, 08:01 AM

A bad situation in Northeast Syria is about to get much worse. Sources tell me that US officials have just informed the Syrian Kurds that Turkey is likely to attack on air and ground in next 24 hours. The US will do nothing. Targets are Tal Abyad and Ras al Ayn.
Ironically Tal Abyad was the main supply route for ISIS in 2014-15 through an open border from Turkey. Turkey refused repeated requests from US to shut border. That's a big reason why US decided to partner with SDF, which took the town in the summer of 2015.
...I'm also told that Turkish attack appears coordinated with the Russians. Russian-backed forces are mobilizing to invade the Kurdish area from the south — towards Tabqa and other spots. Meanwhile, ISIS is mobilizing sleeper cells in Raqqa and attacks have taken place tonight.
And finally there is the scary issue of the thousands of ISIS detainees and families, who may be breaking out of camps and prisons after Turkish attack--with NO American back-up plan. This is a major disaster coming at us because of Trump's decisions. Hours left to stop it.
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why is this ours alone to deal with. and i'm supposed to believe, that if trump then declared war on turkey to protect the kurds, none of you would have a problem with that?

what i learned last night, is that congress never formally approved use of force in syria ( they didn’t need to obviously, but could have). so none of the politicians wanted to go on the record as saying they supported putting kids in harms way there, but they’re all livid that trump, who campaigned specifically on the issue of bringing troops home and won the election, is keeping his word.
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scottw

10-09-2019, 08:12 AM

why is this ours alone to deal with.

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Ummmm....NATO. ??
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Got Stripers

10-09-2019, 08:15 AM

why is this ours alone to deal with. and i'm supposed to believe, that if trump then declared war on turkey to protect the kurds, none of you would have a problem with that?

what i learned last night, is that congress never formally approved use of force in syria ( they didn’t need to obviously, but could have). so none of the politicians wanted to go on the record as saying they supported putting kids in harms way there, but they’re all livid that trump, who campaigned specifically on the issue of bringing troops home and won the election, is keeping his word.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

They were there to defeat Isis and 10,000 of those nuts are housed in make shift prisons, guarded by Kurds. Can you imagine being a soldier or commander stationed there, when the Kurds out of necessity abandon their guard duties to head to the front, allowing sleeper cells to break out their comrades. Trump is a simpleton and doesn't seek advice from anyone, this decision blindsided everyone and now if forced to walk it back; it's not going to help him politically. A phone call from Turkey, someone gives him the praise he so desperately needs and out we go, with the Russians poised to move from the other side.

Sea Dangles

10-09-2019, 08:24 AM

America 1st
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Pete F.

10-09-2019, 08:30 AM

why is this ours alone to deal with. and i'm supposed to believe, that if trump then declared war on turkey to protect the kurds, none of you would have a problem with that?

what i learned last night, is that congress never formally approved use of force in syria ( they didn’t need to obviously, but could have). so none of the politicians wanted to go on the record as saying they supported putting kids in harms way there, but they’re all livid that trump, who campaigned specifically on the issue of bringing troops home and won the election, is keeping his word.
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We were dealing with it with a minimum number of troops and the big hammer that we previously carried while speaking softly, not tweeting and folding like an unprepared idiot.

The legality of our involvement in the Syrian conflict is interesting on both an international and USA level. Sometimes we do stuff for what we believe in, regardless of international law.

Got Stripers

10-09-2019, 08:33 AM

America 1st
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Keep believing our economy isn't interwoven to global markets, hope you don't get too much sand in your ears with your head stuck so far in the sand. What we do internationally is of key importance to our well being. If you were a parent of one of those men and women in Syria fighting Isis and this move allows 10,000 nuts loose to wreck havoc on the US again, you might be signing a different tune.

scottw

10-09-2019, 08:39 AM

Keep believing our economy isn't interwoven to global markets.

who has ever said this?

Jim in CT

10-09-2019, 08:42 AM

They were there to defeat Isis and 10,000 of those nuts are housed in make shift prisons, guarded by Kurds. Can you imagine being a soldier or commander stationed there, when the Kurds out of necessity abandon their guard duties to head to the front, allowing sleeper cells to break out their comrades. Trump is a simpleton and doesn't seek advice from anyone, this decision blindsided everyone and now if forced to walk it back; it's not going to help him politically. A phone call from Turkey, someone gives him the praise he so desperately needs and out we go, with the Russians poised to move from the other side.

"They were there to defeat Isis"

Which I believe they did. Months ago.

"10,000 of those nuts are housed in make shift prisons"

Lots of ways to deal with that.

"Can you imagine being a soldier or commander stationed there, when the Kurds out of necessity abandon their guard duties to head to the front, allowing sleeper cells to break out their comrades. Trump is a simpleton and doesn't seek advice from anyone"

It's not that simple. I'm trying to find the video, there was a Marine captain on TV last night, sayng any soldier would feel good about fighting ISIS in Syria, none of them would feel good sitting there waiting to get sucked into a regional conflict in which the US has no vital interests.

It's not necessarily that Trump isn't listehbing to anybody (though that's possible). It's that he's listening to people like Rand Paul and this Marine Captain, and all you hear on MSNBC and CNN is that the move is stupid. You don't hear from any thoughtful, caring people who are on Trumps side. Not on those stations. Only that Trump is evil.

"Debate" involves listening to thoughtful people on both sides, not just one side.

When Bush decided to double down in Iraq with the surge, he was called a neocon war monger.

When Obama pulled out of Iraq (possibly allowing the bad guys to eliminate gains we made), CNN and MSNBC said bringoing troops home was the right hting to do.

When Trump decides to being troops home, he's an idiot.

Soo it seems to me, the only consistency in terms of response and messaging, is that the Republican is always wrong, he democrat is always right.

Yeah, yeah, whataboutism. Yeah, yeah, Iraq and Syria aren't exactly the same.

I'm not saying I support Trumps decision or that I hate it. I don't know. I do like General Mattis and would tend to believe he's right more often than he's wrong, and he wanted to stay. But Bolton also wanted to stay, and he could care less how many Americans get killed there. I don't know.

WHat I am pretty sure of, is that much of this is political. If Hilary made the same decision, she'd be hailed as a genius.

Pete F.

10-09-2019, 08:43 AM

Here is the number of troops in Syria per Trump.
However he typically has trouble with getting numbers correct.

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
·
1h
Fighting between various groups that has been going on for hundreds of years. USA should never have been in Middle East. Moved our 50 soldiers out. Turkey MUST take over captured ISIS fighters that Europe refused to have returned. The stupid endless wars, for us, are ending!

Jim in CT

10-09-2019, 08:45 AM

Keep believing our economy isn't interwoven to global markets, hope you don't get too much sand in your ears with your head stuck so far in the sand. What we do internationally is of key importance to our well being. If you were a parent of one of those men and women in Syria fighting Isis and this move allows 10,000 nuts loose to wreck havoc on the US again, you might be signing a different tune.

The same people (not you, but news people and talking heads) making that same case now, sure weren't saying that when Obama pulled out of Iraq.

There's logic to what you say, there's a risk here. If the big concern is 10,000 ISIS prisoners, find a way to secure them. If the issue is protecting the Kurds from Turkey, that's not our problem to solve alone.

Where was the concern for the Kurds when Assad gassed them, blatantly ignoring Obama's red line?

Pete F.

10-09-2019, 08:59 AM

Jim once again with But Hillary, I realize you, Faux and Trump still don't realize he won the election. Probably because he has never acted Presidential.

If you look further you will find that of the detainees 2K are Europeans, some still are Americans and nobody can figure out who is who and who did what sufficiently to convict them in a court. That includes us.

Kurds are Christians, Turks are Islamists and you have now seemingly changed sides from your evils of Islam position.

“Turkey has neither the intent, desire, nor capacity to manage 60k detainees in al Hol camp, which State and DoD IGs [inspector general] warn is the nucleus for a resurgent ISIS. Believing otherwise is a reckless gamble with our national security,” Brett McGurk, Trump’s former envoy for the fight against ISIS, tweeted.

scottw

10-09-2019, 09:34 AM

If the big concern is 10,000 ISIS prisoners, find a way to secure them.

give them tents and fly them to California

wdmso

10-09-2019, 10:13 AM

"They were there to defeat Isis"

Which I believe they did. Months ago.

"10,000 of those nuts are housed in make shift prisons"

Lots of ways to deal with that. How

It's not necessarily that Trump isn't listehbing to anybody (though that's possible). It's that he's listening to people like Rand Paul and this Marine Captain, and all you hear on MSNBC and CNN is that the move is stupid. You don't hear from any thoughtful, caring people who are on Trumps side. Not on those stations. Only that Trump is evil. A marine captain does not set policy he has no vision or information beyond the company he commands

"Debate" involves listening to thoughtful people on both sides, not just one side. seem the mirror is Trumps only debate partner

When Bush decided to double down in Iraq with the surge, he was called a neocon war monger.

When Obama pulled out of Iraq (possibly allowing the bad guys to eliminate gains we made), CNN and MSNBC said bringoing troops home was the right hting to do.
Keep repeating this lie I have corrected you all ready on the History of why we left . angin facts need not apply

When Trump decides to being troops home, he's an idiot.

again your missing the bigger picture

Soo it seems to me, the only consistency in terms of response and messaging, is that the Republican is always wrong, he democrat is always right.

no that's your take on everything reguardless of facts

Yeah, yeah, whataboutism. Yeah, yeah, Iraq and Syria aren't exactly the same.

I'm not saying I support Trumps decision or that I hate it. I don't know. I do like General Mattis and would tend to believe he's right more often than he's wrong, and he wanted to stay. But Bolton also wanted to stay, and he could care less how many Americans get killed there. I don't know.

WHat I am pretty sure of, is that much of this is political. If Hilary made the same decision, she'd be hailed as a genius. shes not POTUS false equivalency

The method is what bothers people and our allies (aka TWEET ) not the reason Trump has given .. which is complete BS by the way ...

scottw

10-09-2019, 10:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
"They were there to defeat Isis"

Which I believe they did. Months ago.

"10,000 of those nuts are housed in make shift prisons"

Lots of ways to deal with that. How

MOAB

Jim in CT

10-09-2019, 11:11 AM

give them tents and fly them to California

Se when Bush set up Guantanimo Bay to secure terrorists, that was so mean as to be a war crime. But when Trump leaves these prisoners where they are, it's not secure enough because they might get back into circulation as terrorists.

As long as the Republican is painted as wrong, that's all that matters.

Grouch Marx famously said, "these are my principles. But if you don't like them, I have other, different principles."

liberal=good, conservative=bad, always, no exceptions.

Jim in CT

10-09-2019, 11:18 AM

The method is what bothers people and our allies (aka TWEET ) not the reason Trump has given .. which is complete BS by the way ...

'How "

Build a secure prison. The world pays for it.

" marine captain does not set policy "

Who the hell said he sets policy? You don't quote people who aren't in the federal legislature? You only quote people who set policy? He had an opinion about the possible upside to what Trump is doing. Some people, clearly not you, like to hear both sides before they make up their mind.

"seem the mirror is Trumps only debate partner "

Where you get your news, I'm sure that's what you think. So if Trump never listens to anybody, and every decision is his alone, can we assume you give him sole credit for the insanely low unemployment we are enjoying?

Here, let me answer for you: "a, duh, uhh, I mean, Obama did it all"

"no that's your take on everything reguardless of facts "

Oh, I'm factually incorrect when I say that you guys only care about making the Republican wrong? OK, then please point me to a post you started, where you praised a Republican for doing something great. You've started hundreds of posts since Trump took power, show me one that praises Trump, or any conservative. If you can't do that, then I'm 100% correct.

Jim in CT

10-09-2019, 11:19 AM

Nikki Haley
@NikkiHaley
· 2h
We must always have the backs of our allies, if we expect them to have our back. The Kurds were instrumental in our successful fight against ISIS in Syria. Leaving them to die is a big mistake.

Nikki Haley, like the Marine I mentioned, doesn't set policy. Using your logic, there's no value in your bringing her up.

Jim in CT

10-09-2019, 11:20 AM

Jim in CT

10-09-2019, 11:21 AM

If only life were so simple.

Read some news from outside Trumpworld and don't feel limited to the few clips I post.

Just keep believing Putin's Puppet and his great and unmatched wisdom.

The Irish Times and remember we "were" THE world power.
In Britain and the US, the idea that the EU could aspire to be a superpower is usually treated as either ludicrous or sinister.

So when Guy Verhofstadt, a prominent member of the European Parliament, recently made the case for the EU to be part of an emerging “world order that is based on empires”, there was a predictable backlash. At the Conservative party conference a few days ago, his words, taken from a speech to their anti-Brexit enemies the Liberal Democrats, were cited as evidence of the dangerous imperial ambitions of the EU - and proof that leaving the bloc is the UK’s only safe option.

Mr Verhofstadt can be arrogant. But, in this case, he also happens to be right. The rise of China and India, and the America First policies of Donald Trump’s US, makes it more important than ever that European countries defend their interests collectively.

The EU once dreamt that the whole world would move towards a law-based system, similar to the EU method. But a world order, shaped by Xi Jinping’s China and Trump’s America, will be based on power rather than rules. The outbreak of a global trade war underlines that small European countries can no longer rely on international rules to protect them. They need the bulk and heft that the EU provides.

The former Belgian prime minister’s choice of the word “empire” - with its connotations of conquest - was unfortunate. The EU is an empire by invitation. Nobody is forced to join. And, despite the difficulties of Brexit, any member is free to leave. It would be more accurate to say that the EU can and should aspire to be a superpower - one of four or five major global powers, capable of shaping the world order.

The Telegraph from the UK
Donald Trump has abandoned Syria for short-term political gain. We will all pay a terrible price for his folly

Financial Review from Australia
EU, too, needs to flex its muscles under the new world order
The EU once dreamt the whole world would move towards a law-based system, but a world order, shaped by Xi Jinping’s China and Trump’s America, will be based on power rather than rules.

From the BESA center Israel
The American withdrawals from the agreements with Russia and Iran are but two examples of a far broader breakdown in adherence to international law, norms, and procedures fueled by President Donald Trump’s disdain for key pillars of the US-led, post-WWII order.

Trump has walked away from the Paris accord on climate change as well as the Trans-Pacific Partnership and cast doubt on the US commitment to multiple other multilateral arrangements, including the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), the EU, and the G7, which brings together the West’s largest economies.

America’s rivals, China and Russia, as well as Iran, Turkey, and Saudi Arabia, have countered US unilateralism with calls for a strengthening of multilateralism – albeit one in which they can use the arms trade to leverage their geopolitical weight and fight wars with absolute disregard for the human consequences, and brutally repress minorities of any ethnic, religious, or political stripe.

Trump’s “America First” approach has emboldened leaders backed by Russia and China, including Erdoğan, to more aggressively challenge the existing order and more blatantly violate its underpinnings.

The Korea Herald from South Korea
This year marks the 75th anniversary of the Bretton Woods Agreement, which laid the foundation of the liberal economic order in the post-World War era and led to the establishment of the International Monetary Fund and World Bank.

But it is also likely to be remembered as the turning point in history when leading economies essentially confirmed the denial of liberalism, regressing to nationalist and populist ideals.

The rise of Donald Trump as US president signaled the end of the liberal world order that had prevailed for most of the 20th century, as the Council on Foreign Relations President Richard Haass wrote in his landmark column “Liberal world order, R.I.P.” in March 2018.

As noted in its recent set of policies, the world’s most powerful country has been gesturing to depart from its long-held role as guardian of liberalism.

The Trump administration’s anti-liberalism actions included scrapping the 2015 nuclear deal with Iran, and withdrawing from the Paris Climate Agreement, Trans-Pacific Partnership and UNESCO.

As for the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, the US president labeled it “obsolete,” denying its function as a forerunner institution in the Western liberal-democratic world.

“The liberal world order cannot survive on its own, because others (than the US) lack either the interest or the means to sustain it,” Haass wrote.

“The result will be a world that is less free, less prosperous, and less peaceful, for Americans and others alike.”

Confirming Haass’ pessimistic analysis was the Group of 20 summit held in Osaka, Japan, in June this year, where the world’s major economies failed to include the issue of trade protectionism in their final communique, mainly due to disapproval from the US.

None of those reporters, like the Marine I mentioned, set policy. Using your logic, there's no value in your bringing them up.

Jim in CT

10-09-2019, 11:23 AM

Pete F.

10-09-2019, 11:48 AM

Pete, see what I'm doing? It's OK when you cite sources who aren't people who set policy, as long as those folks are bashing Trump. But if I cite a non policy-making source who supports Trump, well he's not credible, because he doesn't set policy.

Again, the logic is crystal clear. liberal=good, conservative=bad.
Are you arguing with me about something WDMSO posted perhaps?
You’ve shown many times that your crystal clear logic is Jim=good, contrary = (bad, therefore liberal)
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Sea Dangles

10-09-2019, 11:49 AM

[QUOTE=Got Stripers;1176404

to wreck havoc on the US again, you might be signing a different tune.[/QUOTE]

I don’t know how to sign but will attempt to wreck havoc.👍🏿
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Got Stripers

10-09-2019, 12:13 PM

I don’t know how to sign but will attempt to wreck havoc.👍🏿
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

There he is, thank God I was worried you were suffocating with you head either so far up your own Arse or the sand, you wouldn't make it through the day. Like a breath of fresh air your always there to point out one of my world damaging auto correct mistakes, Mr. Irrelevant strikes again. Your contributions here are so deep and thought provoking.

Jim in CT

10-09-2019, 12:40 PM

Are you arguing with me about something WDMSO posted perhaps?
You’ve shown many times that your crystal clear logic is Jim=good, contrary = (bad, therefore liberal)
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

That would be a yes. Apologies for that idiotic error.

"You’ve shown many times that your crystal clear logic is Jim=good, contrary = (bad, therefore liberal)"

Wrong. I ask questions, and as I did here (not that I had a whole lot of choice) I admit when I'm wrong.

Pete, can you point me to any of the many threads you've started, which give credit to republicans? I have started threads in favor of gay marriage, in favor of gun control, in favor of better health coverage for pre existing conditions. I'm not afraid at all to admit that I wholeheartedly agree with liberals on some big issues. That's one of the benefits of thinking for myself. I don't need to go crazy when a republican does something stupid or unethical (though it does disappoint me), I haven't gone all-in on either side.

scottw

10-09-2019, 12:51 PM

Pete, can you point me to any of the many threads you've started, which give credit to republicans? .

Peto is a goldwater girl
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Sea Dangles

10-09-2019, 02:22 PM

There he is, thank God I was worried you were suffocating with you head either so far up your own Arse or the sand, you wouldn't make it through the day. Like a breath of fresh air your always there to point out one of my world damaging auto correct mistakes, Mr. Irrelevant strikes again. Your contributions here are so deep and thought provoking.
🤗
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Pete F.

10-09-2019, 03:10 PM

Pete, can you point me to any of the many threads you've started, which give credit to republicans? I don't need to go crazy when a republican does something stupid or unethical (though it does disappoint me), I haven't gone all-in on either side.

You will find few, if any, that are not about the Citrus Caligula.

I have been consistent in my message, I don't think it is hard to figure out.

Trump is a con man, liar, a cheat and not capable of being President.

He is destroying relationships that have taken American lives to attain.

He is enabling Putin, MBS and other authoritarian leaders far more than is readily apparent.

It keeps getting worse and until that is resolved I am not interested in discussing relatively small and unimportant political BS.

wdmso

10-09-2019, 04:57 PM

'How "

Build a secure prison. The world pays for it.

" marine captain does not set policy "

Who the hell said he sets policy? You don't quote people who aren't in the federal legislature? You only quote people who set policy? He had an opinion about the possible upside to what Trump is doing. Some people, clearly not you, like to hear both sides before they make up their mind.

"seem the mirror is Trumps only debate partner "

Where you get your news, I'm sure that's what you think. So if Trump never listens to anybody, and every decision is his alone, can we assume you give him sole credit for the insanely low unemployment we are enjoying?

Here, let me answer for you: "a, duh, uhh, I mean, Obama did it all"

"no that's your take on everything reguardless of facts "

Oh, I'm factually incorrect when I say that you guys only care about making the Republican wrong? OK, then please point me to a post you started, where you praised a Republican for doing something great. You've started hundreds of posts since Trump took power, show me one that praises Trump, or any conservative. If you can't do that, then I'm 100% correct.

You need to do something postive or to have postive ideas to get a pat on the Back .. regardless of party.. like pete I saw Trump for what he was from day 1 .. a con and an embarrassment that he is .. and Republicans have abandoned their principles for a man .. over country ..

I have experienced Regan Bush Sr (liked bob dole) clinton , bush jr and Obama .. and at no time did I ever have or felt the distain I feel Towards Trump .. its simply not because he claims to be a Republican.. its rooted in my expectations of how past and until recently. All of our Presidents carried themself while in office

Its just about putting country before a man its really that simple
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