that didn’t take long. wow.

turkey is saying that the kurds who helped us defeat isis, are conspiring with kurdish terrorists within turkey. anyone have any idea if that’s true?

Don't worry Lindsey is sending them thoughts and prayers.
And when Congress gets back from recess he'll sanction Turkey, Erdogan is sweating bullets.
Is that like dropping bombs?

Lindsey Graham
@LindseyGrahamSC
Pray for our Kurdish allies who have been shamelessly abandoned by the Trump Administration. This move ensures the reemergence of ISIS.
10:37 AM · Oct 9, 2019·Twitter for iPhone

It’s funny you are skeptical of turkey trying to assign Kurdish terrorist threats within their boarders, yet blindly side with trump’s border issues as a threat to our safety.
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It’s funny you are skeptical of turkey trying to assign Kurdish terrorist threats within their boarders, yet blindly side with trump’s border issues as a threat to our safety.
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that’s because i know how to think. i don’t always assume one person or one side is always correct or always wrong. which is why i side with liberals on some big issues ( gay marriage).

if you don’t think our southern border has been a huge problem
for both the US and those, especially women, making the crossing (30% of
whom are being assaulted according to some data), i think that says a lot more about you, then
it does about me.

Sometimes I think Trump is correct, sometimes I think he's wrong. That's funny to you. Please tell me, by what logic, should I assume that either he's right 100% of the time, or wrong 100% of the time.

Do you guys on the left here, really not see that you're the exact mirror image of Sean Hannity? How do you not see that? You're exactly as thoughtless, predictable, and close minded as he is.
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within their boarders, yet blindly side with trump’s border issues

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batting .500:)

Bad move by Trump imo, you don't hang friends out to die. I somehow see Turkey and Iran rumbling in Syria and maybe that's his endgame???

that didn’t take long. wow.

turkey is saying that the kurds who helped us defeat isis, are conspiring with kurdish terrorists within turkey. anyone have any idea if that’s true?
Similar to the struggles between the UK and Northern Ireland, just goes back a lot longer in time and has been more violent.

If you guys don't understand why so many see Trump as a threat to national security now I doubt you ever will. He has no idea what he's doing and making snap decisions in a vacuum. It's dangerous.

that’s because i know how to think. i don’t always assume one person or one side is always correct or always wrong. which is why i side with liberals on some big issues ( gay marriage).

if you don’t think our southern border has been a huge problem
for both the US and those, especially women, making the crossing (30% of
whom are being assaulted according to some data), i think that says a lot more about you, then
it does about me.

Sometimes I think Trump is correct, sometimes I think he's wrong. That's funny to you. Please tell me, by what logic, should I assume that either he's right 100% of the time, or wrong 100% of the time.

Do you guys on the left here, really not see that you're the exact mirror image of Sean Hannity? How do you not see that? You're exactly as thoughtless, predictable, and close minded as he is.
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I’m close minded? Lol
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Bad move by Trump imo, you don't hang friends out to die. I somehow see Turkey and Iran rumbling in Syria and maybe that's his endgame???

Best odds of WW3 in our generation
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Best odds of WW3 in our generation
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Drama queen much?
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When Trump is done history books will read: Prior to the Trump Administration the United States was the dominant world power.

China has reacted positively to Russia's call for a regional coalition to ensure security in the Persian Gulf as the United States and Iran have pursued their own rival agendas there.

Moscow first introduced "the concept of providing collective security in the Persian Gulf area" in July as tensions between Washington and Tehran neared an all-out crisis. Russian President Vladimir Putin officially proposed Thursday that "a security and cooperation organization be created in the region almost from scratch." He suggested that "Russia, China, the U.S., the EU, India and other interested countries could join as observers."

Asked about this idea, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Geng Shuang declined to "offer a principled response before checking for more information" at a press conference Tuesday, but said Beijing was open to such considerations.

"China has been closely following the complex and sensitive situation in the Gulf region," Geng added. "Safeguarding peace and stability in the region is in the shared interests of the international community. China welcomes all proposals and diplomatic efforts conducive to deescalating the situation in the Gulf region. We would also like to stay in communication with all relevant parties."

WH puts out a brilliant statement and remember military operations of this scale take time to put in place. The phone call was on Sunday. Maybe Trump will draw another red line.

"This morning, Turkey, a NATO member, invaded Syria. The United States does not endorse this attack and has made it clear to Turkey that this operation is a bad idea."

Another case of us abandoning our allies.

Turkey says Trump knew ‘precisely’ about scope of N. Syria operation. “President Trump and President Erdogan have reached an understanding over precisely what this operation is,” Gulnur Aybet, Senior Adviser to the President of Turkey

Pete, I read and consider your point of view often enough to almost know what rhetoric to expect in the New Posts every morning... But I had to take exception with your following post;

Moscow first introduced "the concept of providing collective security in the Persian Gulf area" in July

Believe nothing coming out of that country as long as Putin reigns. He is of same cloth as Stalin. Beware.... Not as large an economic potential problem as China, but we know who/what he is... Ex KGB, flying warplanes in the same skies as ours in support of Assad, after invading Ukraine despite the world's protests.

Another case of us abandoning our allies.

And the probable release of 10,000 ISIS fighters...

WH puts out a brilliant statement and remember military operations of this scale take time to put in place. The phone call was on Sunday. Maybe Trump will draw another red line.

"This morning, Turkey, a NATO member, invaded Syria. The United States does not endorse this attack and has made it clear to Turkey that this operation is a bad idea."

Turkey says Trump knew ‘precisely’ about scope of N. Syria operation. “President Trump and President Erdogan have reached an understanding over precisely what this operation is,” Gulnur Aybet, Senior Adviser to the President of Turkey

And I think Trump did know what was to come and what if my son or daughter were one of the fifty pulled out in advance??? I see both sides of the coin, and he is in the seat of no good options. But fifty Americans are not enough to have made a difference in the face of this operation and would have been a horrible, needless sacrifice if he had not pulled them out...

Turkey wasn’t going to invade at the risk of harming US service men and women, one phone call with Trump clears the path, with as you noted risking setting free 10000 hard core enemies; very bad move IMHO. What is more disturbing to me is that this was for one of two political reasons, to fulfill a campaign promise or to distract attention from the impeachment inquiry.
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But fifty Americans are not enough to have made a difference in the face of this operation and would have been a horrible, needless sacrifice if he had not pulled them out...
People keep talking about the number of US troops, remember we have a major air base in Turkey providing air support to the Kurds fighting ISIS. Now Syria and Russia will be able to hammer whomever they want.

Turkey wanted our support troops out, that was the only obstacle to them taking it to the Kurds. Could it be as simple as this president compromised by his family’s business interests, they own twin towers in Istanbul and it’s reported over 118 other interests in ongoing business ventures. I believe he is at his core corrupt and ran for two reasons, fame and family fortune.
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Pete, I read and consider your point of view often enough to almost know what rhetoric to expect in the New Posts every morning... But I had to take exception with your following post;

Moscow first introduced "the concept of providing collective security in the Persian Gulf area" in July

Believe nothing coming out of that country as long as Putin reigns. He is of same cloth as Stalin. Beware.... Not as large an economic potential problem as China, but we know who/what he is... Ex KGB, flying warplanes in the same skies as ours in support of Assad, after invading Ukraine despite the world's protests.
I don’t disagree
Though I would say Putin has far better apparatchik than Stalin
I worry about our position in the world order that Trump is unknowingly throwing away.
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I see nobody has any justification for why this is a good idea.
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And I think Trump did know what was to come and what if my son or daughter were one of the fifty pulled out in advance??? I see both sides of the coin, and he is in the seat of no good options. But fifty Americans are not enough to have made a difference in the face of this operation and would have been a horrible, needless sacrifice if he had not pulled them out...

We have the big hammer and if it is worth nothing why do we commit far more of our GDP than any other country. Keep in mind that the Citrus Caligula brags falsely of providing ammunition that he claims was not there prior to his administration. Lying as usual
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Pay attention
I just spoke to a distraught US Special Forces soldier who is among the 1000 or so US troops in Syria tonight who is serving alongside the SDF Kurdish forces. It was one of the hardest phone calls I have ever taken.

"I am ashamed for the first time in my career."
This veteran US Special forces soldier has trained indigenous forces on multiple continents. He is on the frontlines tonight and said they are witnessing Turkish atrocities.

"Turkey is not doing what it agreed to. It's horrible," this military source on the ground told me.
"We met every single security agreement. The Kurds met every single agreement. There was NO threat to the Turks - NONE - from this side of the border." "This is insanity," the concerned US service member told me. ""I don't know what they call atrocities but they are happening."
This American soldier told me the Kurds have not left their positions guarding the ISIS prisoners. In fact "they prevented a prison break last night without us."
"They are not abandoning our side (yet)."
The Kurds are "pleading for our support." We are doing "nothing."
Troops on the ground in Syria and their commanders were "surprised" by the decision Sunday night.
Of the President's decision: "He doesn't understand the problem. He doesn't understand the repercussions of this. Erdogan is an Islamist, not a level headed actor."
Acc to this US soldier on the ground tonight in Syria: "The Kurds are as close to Western thinking in the Middle East as anyone. "It's a shame. It's horrible." "This is not helping the ISIS fight." Re: ISIS prisoners: "Many of them will be free in the coming days and weeks."
This US Special Forces soldier wanted me to know: "The Kurds are sticking by us. No other partner I have ever dealt with would stand by us."
Disappointed in the decisions coming from their senior leaders.

Keep believing in Putin’s Puppet
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America 1st
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America 1st
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Morality second.
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Pay attention
I just spoke to a distraught US Special Forces soldier who is among the 1000 or so US troops in Syria tonight who is serving alongside the SDF Kurdish forces. It was one of the hardest phone calls I have ever taken.

"I am ashamed for the first time in my career."
This veteran US Special forces soldier has trained indigenous forces on multiple continents. He is on the frontlines tonight and said they are witnessing Turkish atrocities.

"Turkey is not doing what it agreed to. It's horrible," this military source on the ground told me.
"We met every single security agreement. The Kurds met every single agreement. There was NO threat to the Turks - NONE - from this side of the border." "This is insanity," the concerned US service member told me. ""I don't know what they call atrocities but they are happening."
This American soldier told me the Kurds have not left their positions guarding the ISIS prisoners. In fact "they prevented a prison break last night without us."
"They are not abandoning our side (yet)."
The Kurds are "pleading for our support." We are doing "nothing."
Troops on the ground in Syria and their commanders were "surprised" by the decision Sunday night.
Of the President's decision: "He doesn't understand the problem. He doesn't understand the repercussions of this. Erdogan is an Islamist, not a level headed actor."
Acc to this US soldier on the ground tonight in Syria: "The Kurds are as close to Western thinking in the Middle East as anyone. "It's a shame. It's horrible." "This is not helping the ISIS fight." Re: ISIS prisoners: "Many of them will be free in the coming days and weeks."
This US Special Forces soldier wanted me to know: "The Kurds are sticking by us. No other partner I have ever dealt with would stand by us."
Disappointed in the decisions coming from their senior leaders.

Keep believing in Putin’s Puppet
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I thought Faux News was the devil


"Jennifer Griffin (born 1969) is an American journalist who currently works as national security correspondent for Fox News."
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Trump gave Turkey the green light.

They took it.

Justify that
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that didn’t take long. wow.

turkey is saying that the kurds who helped us defeat isis, are conspiring with kurdish terrorists within turkey. anyone have any idea if that’s true?


The Kurds they are fighting are the PKK, pretty much the Bad Guy Commies. Of course Turkey calls all the Kurds PKK which is pretty far from the truth. The Kurds have been ifghting Turkey, Syria, Iraq, and Iran long before the first time someone shouted Allah Akbar.

SOME of them worked with us to kill ISIS, they were going to fight them anyway.

Drama queen much?
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That started rising arguably since the Red Line in Syria and taking Crimea.

Pre-Trump. I could make a good case that it has been increasing pretty much since the end of the Cold War when WE blew it.

When Trump is done history books will read: Prior to the Trump Administration the United States was the dominant world power.

China has reacted positively to Russia's call for a regional coalition to ensure security in the Persian Gulf as the United States and Iran have pursued their own rival agendas there.

Moscow first introduced "the concept of providing collective security in the Persian Gulf area" in July as tensions between Washington and Tehran neared an all-out crisis. Russian President Vladimir Putin officially proposed Thursday that "a security and cooperation organization be created in the region almost from scratch." He suggested that "Russia, China, the U.S., the EU, India and other interested countries could join as observers."

Asked about this idea, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Geng Shuang declined to "offer a principled response before checking for more information" at a press conference Tuesday, but said Beijing was open to such considerations.

"China has been closely following the complex and sensitive situation in the Gulf region," Geng added. "Safeguarding peace and stability in the region is in the shared interests of the international community. China welcomes all proposals and diplomatic efforts conducive to deescalating the situation in the Gulf region. We would also like to stay in communication with all relevant parties."

Pete, this did not start in 2017. The SCO does back to 2001. Your credibility has been waning as of late.

People keep talking about the number of US troops, remember we have a major air base in Turkey providing air support to the Kurds fighting ISIS. Now Syria and Russia will be able to hammer whomever they want.

Just as long as we have pulled the nukes out. Right now the only real reason we should have any goodwill to Turkey is to keepo them somewhere between our sphere and Russia's. They are not our freinds.

I see nobody has any justification for why this is a good idea.
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I don't like it. But we did say we were going to leave one day, and it is (mostly) the PKK. Don't confuse all Kurds with the PKK, a lot of that going on.

Don't confuse all Kurds with the PKK, a lot of that going on.



bingo

Do you think the Turks will figure out who’s PKK or just kill them all and let God sort them out. Ask an Armenian
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I did ask an Armenian.
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This move is nothing short of dishonorable...

Further, it plays right into Putin's playbook... Turkish interests here have nothing to do with US interests.

Consider this; Turkey has banned the word Kurd, and any variants, from its language and jails anyone speaking the Kurdish language. That's solid modern thinking, right?

The Russians went it alone in Afghanistan, and were forced to withdraw. They are not going to make the same mistakes in this region again, but the motives are much the same as they were back then. Just playing with different officials in the countries... Money, arms, food, all the same collateral we use to influence and buy friends.

Do you think the Turks will figure out who’s PKK or just kill them all and let God sort them out. Ask an Armenian
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Not sure you really care to the point in your quest to opposite Trump on everything. The Turks don't care. They will kill them all, like the Armenians, Persians, Sunnis, Shias, Cossacks, Azerberjiani, and every other big and small groups within a thousand miles. It is what they do.

President Tayyip Erdogan said on Thursday Ankara will send the 3.6 million Syrian refugees in Turkey to Europe if European countries label the country's military incursion in Syria as an occupation.

There is Zero chance the Pentagon or our intel agency's. Wasnt aware of this build up. So Trump knew all along . And he green lighted the op with the promise to pull out of the operation area..

He loves his Strong men
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He has so much family interests tied up in Turkey is it really surprising anyone? Allies make us stronger, Trump doesn’t understand the benefits of multiple allies and clearly doesn’t understand the long term harm by abandoning one in their time of need.
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He has so much family interests tied up in Turkey is it really surprising anyone?
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like clintons, bidens, kerrys and pelosis have in Ukriane probably just by coincidence...good greif

Big difference in having financial interest and allowing a foreign leader tell you what they want and obliging to protect those interests. Now I’m not saying that is specifically what happened, but it’s pretty clear one phone call made the difference. No consultation with our partners, our allies, our military, just Cheeto making a decision on his own because he is the smartest president of all time as he has told us repeatedly. Most every other president has put interests in a blind trust and have divulged their taxes, Trump as King and above the law and accepted practice, believes he can do anything.

I believe the republican tide is changing, this move to green light Turkeys occupation will make the impeachment vote in the senate a lot closer than he’d like. There is no cure for stupid and this move was beyond stupid, it’s insane.
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I believe the republican tide is changing, this move to green light Turkeys occupation will make the impeachment vote in the senate a lot closer than he’d like. There is no cure for stupid and this move was beyond stupid, it’s insane.
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Even worse considering Trump can't even say we got anything in return. Considering how depraved, reckless and patently irresponsible this action was you have to wonder what the motivation really is.

Just what did Erdogan and Kusher talk about in their late February meeting in Ankara?
Who else was there to represent the US government?
Why did Erdogan go silent about Kashoggi?
Did Erdogan sell out Hamas to be able to attack the Kurds without interference, and we agreed to it?

There is always a quid pro quo in these negotiations.

Big difference in having financial interest and allowing a foreign leader tell you what they want and obliging to protect those interests. Now I’m not saying that is specifically what happened


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this is insane

you have to wonder what the motivation really is.



he was abducted by aliens and they planted it in his brain

Just what did Erdogan and Kusher talk about in their late February meeting in Ankara?
Who else was there to represent the US government?
Why did Erdogan go silent about Kashoggi?
Did Erdogan sell out Hamas to be able to attack the Kurds without interference, and we agreed to it?

There is always a quid pro quo in these negotiations unless you are a democrat.

fixed it

Scott you will defend him even if it means going down with the ship, we all understand it, it colors every post of whataboutism you put up.

Reckless impulsive foreign policy that kills alliances, harms our allies, betrays the men and women fighting along side the Kurds is wrong. Abandoning the brave Kurds who have been our foot soldiers, who sacrificed over ten thousand with an equal number wounded to help our cause sends a clear message to the world; agreements and alliances with Trump mean absolutely nothing.

Gee I wonder why China walks away quickly every time they meet.

Scott you will defend him



when have I ever defended him? I don't like him but I like the democraps a lot less....

you, on the other hand, are on a relentless, mindless jihad

when have I ever defended him? I don't like him but I like the democraps a lot less....

you, on the other hand, are on a relentless, mindless jihad

The guy posts nutty crap and then looks up to see if I will acknowledge his drivel. Very strange cat.
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Nutty like echoing the concerns being voiced by diplomats, military and security experts about how wrong this move in Syria is, yup crazy sh*t.
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I see nobody has any justification for why this is a good idea.
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says a lot about where you are looking.

i’m not saying it was a good idea, but i looked to see what arguments were being made by those who support it ( rand paul, etc).

trump campaigned very specifically on bringing home troops rather than leaving them in endless conflict. you guys like to attack him for failing to meet campaign promises, this is one he kept. trump can argue this is why people voted for him.

as i understand it, we were authorized to have troops in syria to combat ISIS. as i understand it, that mission was accomplished some months ago. if congress wants to expand the scope of that mission, they should
go on record and vote for it.

i also don’t feel like i know who the good guys are in this conflict. are the kurds good guys, or was it an “enemy of my enemy” situation. turkey says the kurds are engaging in terrorism in turkey, you made it sound like a britain/northern ireland situation.

americans are dying there. trump made it clear in his campaign that he wasn’t sacrificing american lives unless there was an immediate vital
interest to the us. killing isis fighters qualifies. standing around, waiting to get sucked into a regional conflict with another nato member? not sure if that qualifies.

and if trump claimed
we were staying there until the end no matter what, at least some of you would
be calling him a warmonger.

if you can’t see where the other side is coming from, it’s because your eyes are closed and your fingers are in your ears. and again, i’m not saying i support the move, not at all. but i took the time
to see both sides.
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says a lot about where you are looking.

i’m not saying it was a good idea, but i looked to see what arguments were being made by those who support it ( rand paul, etc).

trump campaigned very specifically on bringing home troops rather than leaving them in endless conflict. you guys like to attack him for failing to meet campaign promises, this is one he kept. trump can argue this is why people voted for him.

as i understand it, we were authorized to have troops in syria to combat ISIS. as i understand it, that mission was accomplished some months ago. if congress wants to expand the scope of that mission, they should
go on record and vote for it.

i also don’t feel like i know who the good guys are in this conflict. are the kurds good guys, or was it an “enemy of my enemy” situation. turkey says the kurds are engaging in terrorism in turkey, you made it sound like a britain/northern ireland situation.

The US approached the Syrian civil war with caution. Though opposed to the regime of President Bashar al-Assad, its chief concern was that the chaos there provided ungoverned space for the expansion of the so-called caliphate of Islamic State (ISIS).

With its focus on counter-terrorism rather than re-making Syria, the US looked to find an ally who could mount a serious challenge to the fighters of ISIS. Various abortive attempts at arming and training local militias failed - in some cases US weapons were simply handed over to ISIS.

Finally Washington turned to the Kurds. This presented diplomatic problems. There are significant Kurdish populations in several Middle Eastern countries, including Turkey, Syria and Iraq. Many aspire to Kurdish nationhood. After the breakup of the Ottoman Empire, President Woodrow Wilson supported the idea of an independent Kurdish state, but this dream fell apart when Turkish borders were redrawn in 1923. Denied a homeland of their own, the Kurdish diaspora ended up spread across Turkey, Iraq, Syria and Iran, facing pressure and often outright hostility in countries that viewed them with suspicion.

Across the border in Syria a Kurdish group known as the YPG had some links with the PKK (bad guys) in Turkey. And it was the YPG that formed the core element of the mixed Kurdish and Arab militia that Washington decided to throw its weight behind.

Kurdish internal politics are undoubtedly complex. And it is interesting that President Trump himself mixed up these two Kurdish groups - the PKK and the YPG.

But in Turkish minds there is no difference. For Ankara Kurdish groups are terrorists and thus Washington was effectively siding with enemies of the Turkish state.

Washington's decision to support the Kurds with training and equipment reaped dividends. They proved both reliable and capable and the dismantling of the ISIS caliphate in Syria owes much to their efforts.

Simultaneously the US has sought to bend over backwards to calm Turkish fears, most recently developing a pattern of joint patrols between US and Turkish troops as a confidence-building measure in the border area. It is these US forces that were withdrawn ahead of the Turkish operation.

americans are dying there. trump made it clear in his campaign that he wasn’t sacrificing american lives unless there was an immediate vital
interest to the us. killing isis fighters qualifies. standing around, waiting to get sucked into a regional conflict with another nato member? not sure if that qualifies.

and if trump claimed
we were staying there until the end no matter what, at least some of you would
be calling him a warmonger.

if you can’t see where the other side is coming from, it’s because your eyes are closed and your fingers are in your ears. and again, i’m not saying i support the move, not at all. but i took the time
to see both sides.
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President Trump has decided that now the Kurds do not count for much and, despite his denials, he has given the Turks a green light to mount this operation by failing to make it clear to Ankara that this partnership really mattered to Washington.

He had that chance and if he was properly prebriefed with talking points and made aware of the ramifications of his actions possibly he would not have folded like a cheap suitcase.

This is not the first time that the Kurds see themselves as having been f-ed by Washington. At least twice before when Iraqi Kurds were encouraged to rise up against the authorities in Baghdad by the Americans they were let down.

If Trump is to be taken at his word, alliances - whether it be with the Kurds or even within Nato - are for him simply transactional business arrangements to be judged according to a short-term cost-benefit analysis: what is the US giving and what is it getting in return?

The US tried every other option before backing the Kurds. The Kurds have proved time and again their capability as a disciplined, effective fighting force and their commitment to the kind of stable, moderate governance that is sorely lacking in the region.

In writing off the Kurds he suggests that the US can easily find other allies in the region. Really?

If there is a resurgence of ISIS then who is Washington going to turn to?

We will end up sending those young men that you claim to not want there because Trump at a minimum did not pay attention or used his great and wonderful brain instead of listening to people with experience in the area.

We will likely be tangled up in the Middle East either for a long time semipeacefully or until it deteriorates into a major conflict and the #^&#^&#^&#^& hits the fan.
Who knew that governing would be so complicated, you can't do it by tweeting and bullying.
It looks like it could be very close to fan time.

we have two “allies” here, and they really hate each other. how many american lives are worth sacrificing on the altar of that hate, when we had nothing to do with that hate, and no one has been able to address the hate in that region.

that’s the argument to withdraw. do what we can to pressure each side to leave the other alone. would
be nice if the UN could find a way to do something useful.
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we have two “allies” here, and they really hate each other. how many american lives are worth sacrificing on the altar of that hate, when we had nothing to do with that hate, and no one has been able to address the hate in that region.

that’s the argument to withdraw. do what we can to pressure each side to leave the other alone. would
be nice if the UN could find a way to do something useful.
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The same people you cite as wanting to pull out of the Middle East also want to decimate the UN.

While tribal conflicts have always existed in the ME, read the Bible, they were exacerbated by the Division of the Ottoman Empire after WW1.

The same people you cite as wanting to pull out of the Middle East also want to decimate the UN.

While tribal conflicts have always existed in the ME, read the Bible, they were exacerbated by the Division of the Ottoman Empire after WW1.

whatever. the conflict has always been there. there is an argument to be made that while
we should
never stop trying diplomacy, military intervention should
be limited to cases where the US has a vital interest.

is that really so absurd? put aside
your hate of trump, and ask if that’s so absurd? obama pulled us out iraq when he announced he was going to.
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whatever. the conflict has always been there. there is an argument to be made that while
we should
never stop trying diplomacy, military intervention should
be limited to cases where the US has a vital interest.

is that really so absurd? put aside
your hate of trump, and ask if that’s so absurd? obama pulled us out iraq when he announced he was going to.
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He pulled out 50 people and flushed an ally down the tube with no plan or consultation other than to pull out.

Trump is always transactional, what did he get for letting Turkey do that without a fight and when did he really know Erdogan was going to invade?
This operation was not planned between the phone call on Sunday and Monday when the attack started. Trump's shadow minister met with Erdogan after meeting with MBS in late February, Erdogan went silent on Kashoggi.

Trump Tower Istanbul, Kashoggi, MBS, Kushner the shadow minister and his funding from the Middle East.
They are all connected.

Trump Tower Istanbul, Kashoggi, MBS, Kushner the shadow minister and his funding from the Middle East.
They are all connected.
You forgot the growing humanitarian and terrorism crisis, they're connected also.

A comment from Dan Crenshaw

The great irony of the “no more endless wars” camp’s argument is that removing our small and cost-effective force from Northern Syria is causing more war, not less.

Our presence there was not meant to engage in endless wars, it was there to deter further warfare.

America 1st
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A comment from Dan Crenshaw

The great irony of the “no more endless wars” camp’s argument is that removing our small and cost-effective force from Northern Syria is causing more war, not less.

Our presence there was not meant to engage in endless wars, it was there to deter further warfare.

you can argue the presence keeps turkey at bay. how many american lives is that worth?

pete, a speck of honesty would
mandate that you don’t only look at the benefit of leaving the troops there. you have to compare the benefit and the cost. everything looks swell when you celebrate the benefit and pretend there’s no cost.

and again, trump campaigned
on this, his victory doesn’t suggest to me that americans want troops
there forever.
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The kurds didn't help in WW 2 or at Normandy..

The stupid sh it never stops
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you can argue the presence keeps turkey at bay. how many american lives is that worth?

pete, a speck of honesty would
mandate that you don’t only look at the benefit of leaving the troops there. you have to compare the benefit and the cost. everything looks swell when you celebrate the benefit and pretend there’s no cost.

and again, trump campaigned
on this, his victory doesn’t suggest to me that americans want troops
there forever.
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Six deaths vs over 10,000 with as many wounded, but hey guys thanks for the help; now go fu*ck yourselves.
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Six deaths vs over 10,000 with as many wounded, but hey guys thanks for the help; now go fu*ck yourselves.
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6 american deaths. that’s supposed to be the main concern for our president.

are the turks wrong when they say the kurds are engaging in terrorism in turkey? sincere question.
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The kurds didn't help in WW 2 or at Normandy..

The stupid sh it never stops
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well if i’m stupid
and you’re not, tell
me why another nation can’t pony up and put a few dozen troops there. why is it always us, and only us?
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Jim I agree as the historical lead nation and peace keeper of the free world, at times we all wonder why does that burden fall on us, well it is because we WANT to be the leader. This withdrawal using your thought process might possibly have been accomplished with a president who valued our European allies and sought the UN and our allies to tag in and give our troops a respite. That is a giant stretch for Trump and I really believe he couldn’t care less about our Kurd or European allies, this was either about trying desperately to distract from the impeachment, fulfill a campaign promise or worse; protect family financial interests in Turkey.
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well if i’m stupid
and you’re not, tell
me why another nation can’t pony up and put a few dozen troops there. why is it always us, and only us?
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It’s not always us, that is you buying Trump’s lies.

Jim, we have a NATO member violating the charter with Trump’s approval. Who came to our aid after 9/11? It’s insane what is going down.
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Jim I agree as the historical lead nation and peace keeper of the free world, at times we all wonder why does that burden fall on us, well it is because we WANT to be the leader. This withdrawal using your thought process might possibly have been accomplished with a president who valued our European allies and sought the UN and our allies to tag in and give our troops a respite. That is a giant stretch for Trump and I really believe he couldn’t care less about our Kurd or European allies, this was either about trying desperately to distract from the impeachment, fulfill a campaign promise or worse; protect family financial interests in Turkey.
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"we WANT to be the leader"

We DID lead in Syria. We were there by ourselves for years. If we take a 3 year hitch, then ask someone else to take a turn (after the heavy fighting against ISIS is behind us), does that mean we aren't the leader anynore? I don't think so. I can't think of any definition of "leader" that precludes the leader from ever receiving assistance.

"That is a giant stretch for Trump and I really believe he couldn’t care less about our Kurd or European allies"

You may be right. I'm not trying to read his mind, just evaluating the pros and cons of the withdrawal.

You made some good points in this post, points I agree with 100%.

I'd really like to know who the good guys are in the Kurd-Turkey feud. I still have no idea how to feel about it. I see pros and cons on both sides.

It’s not always us, that is you buying Trump’s lies.

Jim, we have a NATO member violating the charter with Trump’s approval. Who came to our aid after 9/11? It’s insane what is going down.
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If they're violating the charter, why isn't NATO responding? And what standards are the Kurds violating, if they're in fact supporting terrorism in Turkey, which you made it sound like they were.

well if i’m stupid
and you’re not, tell
me why another nation can’t pony up and put a few dozen troops there. why is it always us, and only us?
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Whos calling you stupid ? That above statment was from Trump

Why us.. isolationism is dangrous .. how about letting China fill our void .. let them take a turn. Or Russia. how many Syrian refugees have NATO countries taken and how many have we ? 50 or 1000 troops seems like a fair compromise
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that’s the argument to withdraw. do what we can to pressure each side to leave the other alone. would
be nice if the UN could find a way to do something useful.
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US joins Russia to scuttle UNSC action on Turkey’s invasion of Syria
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Whos calling you stupid ? That above statment was from Trump

Why us.. isolationism is dangrous .. how about letting China fill our void .. let them take a turn. Or Russia. how many Syrian refugees have NATO countries taken and how many have we ? 50 or 1000 troops seems like a fair compromise
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one thing that people on both sides do when they have a weak position and know it, is accuse the other side of extremes.

i’m not an isolationist. i’m suggesting that an argument can be made that if we’re in syria long enough to complete the mission against ISIS ( and i haven’t heard anyone say that isis still has a meaningful presence there), that maybe it’s time for someone else to take a turn.

just because i don’t necessarily want to be there forever, doesn’t make me an isolationist. does it?
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one thing that people on both sides do when they have a weak position and know it, is accuse the other side of extremes.

i’m not an isolationist. i’m suggesting that an argument can be made that if we’re in syria long enough to complete the mission against ISIS ( and i haven’t heard anyone say that isis still has a meaningful presence there), that maybe it’s time for someone else to take a turn.

just because i don’t necessarily want to be there forever, doesn’t make me an isolationist. does it?
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But yet you complain that Obama pulled out of Iraq and caused isis
How long were you willing to stay there hindsight is always 20/20

Yet now as if by magic Isis is defeated .And once again Trumps getting picked on. Talk about a weak position

ISIS IS also an idea the west hasn't killed that and Trukey is relighting that candle.. And Trump has destroyed the idea that the US is a dependable partner .. that decades of treasure and American lives were used to forge such an image. Even some Republican have have spoke out against Turkey.. the country not the T in the oval office
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Trump constantly boasts how savvy a businessman he is, yet clearly he doesn’t understand you don’t give up on an investment with an ROI that’s out of the park. A very small personnel investment at the boarder was holding back what will now be a devastating outcome and lead to yet another humanitarian crisis. If you think those men and women aren’t upset they have abandoned there partners I think you are kidding yourself.
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Saw this on FB from duffel blog:rotflmao:

He pulled out 50 people and flushed an ally down the tube with no plan or consultation other than to pull out.

Trump is always transactional, what did he get for letting Turkey do that without a fight and when did he really know Erdogan was going to invade?
This operation was not planned between the phone call on Sunday and Monday when the attack started. Trump's shadow minister met with Erdogan after meeting with MBS in late February, Erdogan went silent on Kashoggi.

Trump Tower Istanbul, Kashoggi, MBS, Kushner the shadow minister and his funding from the Middle East.
They are all connected.

Your father should have pulled out.
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He pulled out 50 people and flushed an ally down the tube with no plan or consultation other than to pull out.

Trump is always transactional, what did he get for letting Turkey do that without a fight and when did he really know Erdogan was going to invade?
This operation was not planned between the phone call on Sunday and Monday when the attack started. Trump's shadow minister met with Erdogan after meeting with MBS in late February, Erdogan went silent on Kashoggi.

Trump Tower Istanbul, Kashoggi, MBS, Kushner the shadow minister and his funding from the Middle East.
They are all connected.

Ive said it here already there is no way The US wasn't aware of the build up prior to the phone call .. this operations was months in the planning and execution... it takes a year of planning and coordination for 1 national Guard unit (less than 1000 men )in the States to plan and conduct their 2 week annual Training .. it's only fast in the Movies

FYI Turkey, which incidentally was also not at Normandy in WWII. not sure if Trump was aware

one thing that people on both sides do when they have a weak position and know it, is accuse the other side of extremes.

i’m not an isolationist. i’m suggesting that an argument can be made that if we’re in syria long enough to complete the mission against ISIS ( and i haven’t heard anyone say that isis still has a meaningful presence there), that maybe it’s time for someone else to take a turn.

just because i don’t necessarily want to be there forever, doesn’t make me an isolationist. does it?
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America actually is not locked into pointless “endless wars” in the Middle East. We have troops there for the same reason we keep troops in other parts of the world — to preempt threats to our homeland, deter aggression and protect America’s far-flung interests. Their mission is counterterrorism, not war, in support of Afghan and other local forces that are doing most of the fighting on the ground.

It’s been 74 years since Japan surrendered unconditionally on the battleship USS Missouri, but the United States still has 56,000 troops there. About 65,000 active duty U.S. troops are stationed in Europe (including NATO ally Turkey). We have over 25,000 troops in South Korea. And the U.S. Central Command overseas between 60,000 and 70,000 troops in the Middle East, most of whom are not engaged directly in combat.

Endendlesswars
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We can protect known killers

Amid Pres. Trump's decision to remove US troops from northern Syria and his vocal criticisms of US military presence in Middle East, the Pentagon announces the deployment of more US troops and weapons to Saudi Arabia “to assure and enhance the defense of Saudi Arabia.”

Trump said that the Kurds had gone their own whey.... that’s why he abandoned them
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This will be studied for years as an example of how to shoot yourself in the foot.

Trump said that the Kurds had gone their own whey.... that’s why he abandoned them at the boarder
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fixed it :tooth:

Look who met 3 weeks ago to discuss and make plans for Syria – Putin, Erdogan, and Rouhani

For the poorly informed they are the leaders of Russia, Turkey and Iran.

Ironically, we have to turn to the Kremlin’s English-language website for information on the Trilateral summit on settlement in Syria held in Ankara, Turkey on September 16, 2019.

http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/transcripts/61540

At the link, there are additional links onward to press statements and a 14-point Syria plan agreed by Putin, Erdogan, and Rouhani at the meeting.

The Kurds weren’t invited to the summit and they weren’t mentioned directly but it’s clear that the three leaders agreed to deal with them in some unspecified way to guarantee Syria’s territorial integrity and national sovereignty.

From the 14-point statement released jointly by Putin, Erdogan, and Rouhani:

2. Emphasized their strong commitment to the sovereignty, independence, unity and territorial integrity of the Syrian Arab Republic . . .

4. Discussed the situation in the northeast of Syria, emphasized that security and stability in this region can only be achieved on the basis of respect for the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the country and agreed to coordinate their efforts to this end.

5. Rejected in this regard all attempts to create new realities on the ground under the pretext of combating terrorism, including illegitimate self-rule initiatives, and expressed their determination to stand against separatist agendas aimed at undermining the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Syria as well as threatening the national security of neighboring countries.

The full statement can be found at the link here: http://en.kremlin.ru/supplement/5439

In his speech at the summit, Putin also said:

Naturally, the situation in the northeast of Syria is a source of concern. Problems of security in this area and other parts of Syria should be resolved based exclusively on preserving its sovereignty and territorial integrity. We consider it unacceptable to divide Syria into spheres of influence.

http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/transcripts/61541

In Q&A with reporters at the summit, Putin was even asked about the US presence in Syria. Here’s what he said:

Question: With due consideration for the US presence in Syria, I would also like to ask how you assess the US presence on Syrian territory?

Vladimir Putin: Regarding the presence of the US Armed Forces, it is common knowledge that their presence on Syrian territory is illegal. And we hope that the decision to withdraw US service personnel from Syria, made by President of the United States Donald Trump will be implemented completely.

http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/transcripts/61542

What was Trump doing during the Trilateral Summit? He was bellowing about the drone/missile strikes on Saudi Arabia’s oil processing facility and blaming Iran for it which is all but forgotten now.

None of it makes much sense until you realize that Putin is calling the shots. Everywhere.

A contingent of U.S. Special Forces has been caught up in Turkish shelling against U.S.-backed Kurdish positions in northern Syria, days after President Donald Trump told his Turkish counterpart he would withdraw U.S. troops from certain positions in the area.

Newsweek has learned through both an Iraqi Kurdish intelligence official and senior Pentagon official that Special Forces operating on Mashtenour hill in the majority-Kurdish city of Kobani fell under artillery fire from Turkish forces conducting their so-called "Operation Peace Spring" against Kurdish fighters backed by the U.S. but considered terrorist organizations by Turkey.

The senior Pentagon official said that Turkish forces should be aware of U.S. positions "down to the grid." The official could not specify the exact number of personnel present, but indicated they were "small numbers below company level," so somewhere between 15 and 100 troops.

When an ISIS terrorist attacks one of our allies or us, please remember Trumps false claim that ISIS has been defeated.
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Thanks for your unyielding efforts PeteF. Even if you are just responding to yourself.
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Already one Isis jail break, Trump is delusional if he thinks Isis is defeated and done, all that effort and loss of life to undo over Money and politics.
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This will be studied for years as an example of how to shoot yourself in the foot.
I think you meant in the head.
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I think you meant in the head.
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Wouldn’t he have written head instead of foot Jeff? Is it possible you just don’t think?
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Who wanted Trump to withdraw U.S. troops and abandon the Kurds? Not the Defense or the State Department. Not the foreign policy establishment or the American people. Not Republicans or Democrats.
Who wanted Trump to abandon the Kurds and withdraw U.S. troops? Erdogan, Rouhani and Putin
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Blah blah blah
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Reported 700-900 Isis prisoners are now on the loose, just unreal that this result wasn’t easily predictable, so you want the endless wars to start, guess what the war on Isis part two is about to get going. Trump is so corrupt and such an idiot, he should be impeached for stupidity.
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Only four days into Turkish attack and one week after POTUS-Erdogan call:

* UN: 130k displaced (likely to 3x)
* ISIS terrorists escaping (caught after years of painstaking effort)
* Syrians executed on roadways by Turkish-backed opposition forces
* Main US supply lines cut
* US forces fired on “danger close”
* Female politician brutally murdered
* Turkish forces operating well outside “security mechanism” area
* Increasingly impossible for US forces to remain in Syria at all
* No plan to take care of anyone who worked with us

Total Trumpshow

Weakest President Ever
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peto and goat strippers should get a room :humpty::rotf2:

peto and goat strippers should get a room :humpty::rotf2:

You really should get a moral compass.
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Is that because there’s a vacancy where you and Dangles have a room?
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Is that because there’s a vacancy where you and Dangles have a room?
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Together we would make little Republicans.😍
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You really should get a moral compass.
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pon·tif·i·cate
verb
1. express one's opinions in a way considered annoyingly pompous and dogmatic.


but I've learned from my friends on the left that there are no absolutes, morality is what you make it and speak your own truth :kewl:

It’s not always us, that is you buying Trump’s lies.

Jim, we have a NATO member violating the charter with Trump’s approval. Who came to our aid after 9/11? It’s insane what is going down.
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Turkey came to our aid after 9/11? That Turkey was Pre-Erdogan and was a country we could generally work with.

This is not the same Turkey.

We must really balance between cutting our losses with Turkey and preventing them from falling further into Putin's sphere.

And for all y'all complaining how Puty is playing chess with Trump, he did the same thing to Obama. He is punching way above his weight, for how long who knows.



Whos calling you stupid ? That above statment was from Trump

Why us.. isolationism is dangrous .. how about letting China fill our void .. let them take a turn. Or Russia. how many Syrian refugees have NATO countries taken and how many have we ? 50 or 1000 troops seems like a fair compromise
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We did this for the past decade, glad you are coming around ; )

(this is not an endorsement of Trump/SDF)

Saw this on FB from duffel blog:rotflmao:

One of the best sites on the web.

Together we would make little Republicans.😍
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I think you’d make Trumplicans and I wondered how they came to be, not interested in making any, not that there’s anything wrong with that.
Have fun
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Are you impressed yet with Jared Kushner’s Middle East Peace Plan.
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Congratulations to Trump and his base

Hundreds of ISIS supporters flee detention camps amid Turkish airstrikes .

A Kurdish official also said that the flag of the Islamic State, also known as ISIS, had been raised in the countryside.

They’re Back.......
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Good going Cheeto, declare the war is won, a few days later it’s back on; no cure for stupidity.
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Good going Cheeto, declare the war is won, a few days later it’s back on; no cure for stupidity.
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it's a battle

Hundreds of ISIS supporters flee detention camps amid Turkish airstrikes .


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future democrat voters....don't be too upset

[QUOTE=JohnR;1176771]

Pre-Erdogan and was a country we could generally work with.




then they were lovers...

future democrat voters....don't be too upset

All Americans should be upset, allowing hundreds of those nuts loose again isn’t a democratic or republican problem, it’s a universal problem, really is inexcusable.
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Together we would make little Republicans.😍
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and they'd be better looking than Chelsea :)

All Americans should be upset, allowing hundreds of those nuts loose again isn’t a democratic or republican problem, it’s a universal problem, really is inexcusable.

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the are simply misguided...probably just need an emotional support pet, universal basic income and some safe space time

the are simply misguided...probably just need an emotional support pet, universal basic income and some safe space time

I’m sure your humor will be comforting to the next bomb victims of one of those now freed nut jobs.
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I’m sure your humor will be comforting to the next bomb victims of one of those now freed nut jobs.
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I thought these guys only turned to terrorism because of America?...

Only four days into Turkish attack and one week after POTUS-Erdogan call:

* UN: 130k displaced (likely to 3x)
* ISIS terrorists escaping (caught after years of painstaking effort)
* Syrians executed on roadways by Turkish-backed opposition forces
* Main US supply lines cut
* US forces fired on “danger close”
* Female politician brutally murdered
* Turkish forces operating well outside “security mechanism” area
* Increasingly impossible for US forces to remain in Syria at all
* No plan to take care of anyone who worked with us

Total Trumpshow

Weakest President Ever
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Think of the positives. Now that ISIS has a chance to rebuild they have an entire generation of Kurds really pissed off at the USA to recruit from.

You don't get the genius of Trump at all do you?

News flash 🔥🔥🔥 Spence and Pete see eye to eye.
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Turkey came to our aid after 9/11? That Turkey was Pre-Erdogan and was a country we could generally work with.
They did.

I know Turkey is strategic in multiple ways but if they want to behave like this I don't see how they can be part of NATO.

In one swift move The Chosen One aka Stable Genius has just un-defeated ISIS
Congratulations fools
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In one swift move The Chosen One aka Stable Genius has just un-defeated ISIS
Congratulations fools
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^^^ this

And Chris and Scott are bunked up making more fools.
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They did.

I know Turkey is strategic in multiple ways but if they want to behave like this I don't see how they can be part of NATO.

this was enlightening

Reported that Turkey is using militia made up of Isis and Al Qaeda terrorists and with the Russians joining in and our troops moving out completely now; the ethnic cleansing is underway. Military leaders are not happy they have been ordered out to leave their comrades to be slaughtered with US support.
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The noted Liberal member of Congress

Dan Crenshaw

"Isolationists argue “it’s not our war!” while conveniently forgetting world history. When ISIS regains strength or thousands of refugees flee, it becomes our problem, again.

The isolationists need to make an argument as to why more war is better than preventing war. I’ll wait."

History repeats, again and again.

and they'd be better looking than Chelsea :)

She could have been reworked like Cheetos daughter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvqa4lNwEbM

It took forever, read till Trump, but Russia got the nukes out of Turkey.
Putin’s Puppet is paying his tab
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Can’t imagine being a wife or husband of one of those 1000 military men and women now trapped and maybe needing to be airlifted out due to this brilliant foreign policy move. Policy made not in a room surrounded by foreign policy experts and military commanders, no its after a phone call with a foreign power who has everything to gain. What did we get out of this bargain? Secure transport of Isis prisoners, nope. Secure removal of our military from harms way, nope. We must have gotten assurance from Turkey it wouldn’t go beyond a certain point, nope. So we let Turkey run amok, we watched as Isis prisoners are set free, we watched as the Kurds and their families who fought hard for us are killed without support from us and now Syria and Russia are entering the fray.
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Can’t imagine being a wife or husband of one of those 1000 military men and women now trapped and maybe needing to be airlifted out due to this brilliant foreign policy move. Policy made not in a room surrounded by foreign policy experts and military commanders, no its after a phone call with a foreign power who has everything to gain. What did we get out of this bargain? Secure transport of Isis prisoners, nope. Secure removal of our military from harms way, nope. We must have gotten assurance from Turkey it wouldn’t go beyond a certain point, nope. So we let Turkey run amok, we watched as Isis prisoners are set free, we watched as the Kurds and their families who fought hard for us are killed without support from us and now Syria and Russia are entering the fray.
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I’m just very relieved no Americans were killed.
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sounds like NATO has it under control...



Jens Stoltenberg, NATO Secretary General:

"We also discussed the situation in Syria. Our ally Turkey is at the forefront of the crisis and has legitimate security concerns. It has suffered horrendous terrorist attacks and it hosts millions of Syrian refugees. NATO has been informed by Turkish authorities about the ongoing operation in northern Syria. It is important to avoid actions that may further destabilise the region, escalate tensions and cause more human suffering."

"I count on Turkey to act with restraint and ensure that any action it may take in northern Syria is proportionate and measured. We must not jeopardise the gains we have made together against our common enemy ISIS. Because ISIS continues to pose a grave threat to the Middle East and North Africa and to all our nations. I will discuss this issue with President Erdogan in Istanbul on Friday."

It took forever, read till Trump, but Russia got the nukes out of Turkey.
Putin’s Puppet is paying his tab
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The tactical significance of those B61s at Incrilik is minimal (if there is such a think as a tactical nuke). Frankly they should have been removed a decade ago and never should have stayed past the false Coup.

BREAKING — Putin, Erdogan discuss the need to prevent armed clashes between Turkey and Syrian regime in a phone call: Kremlin

• Putin invited Erdogan for a working visit in coming days. Erdogan accepted it

Erdogan says come kiss my göt, amcık

Following his speech to parliament Turkey's President Erdogan told
Alex Crawford he would not meet Pompeo, Pence and O'Brien in Ankara.
Erdoğan said his counterpart is President Trump.

The president of Turkey SUMMONING the president of the United States.

The art of the deal...priceless.

Erdogan is not our friend.

But clearly I can see Obama telling Erdogan to back off and Erdogan shouting "How High, Sir".

Erdogan is not our friend.

But clearly I can see Obama telling Erdogan to back off and Erdogan shouting "How High, Sir".

You are 1000 days too late to worry about the former President, the white house has a new occupant.

Putin's Puppet dancing at the end of his strings again.

And if you, like the Stable Genius, don't think ISIS is a problem because they are 7000 miles away, so was Osama Bin Laden.

As Pence and Pompeo try to rewrite history now and claim there was no green light, you should ask yourself why the US sided with Russia against 5 of our NATO allies to block this UN statement denouncing the Turkish attacks on our FORMER Kurdish allies.


EU diplomats stood alone against the US and Russia on Syria at the UN on Thursday (10 October), painting a bleak picture of transatlantic relations.

EU envoys to the UN Security Council (UNSC), from Belgium, Estonia, France, Germany, Poland, and the UK spoke to press in New York after the US and Russia blocked an EU-drafted UN resolution on the conflict.

The German ambassador, Jurgen Schulz, read out the EU statement anyway.

"We call upon Turkey to cease the unilateral military action," Schulz said, as the Turkish military bombarded Kurdish positions in northern Syria and Kurdish artillery fired on Turkish towns on the other side of the border.

The Turkish offensive would create "fertile ground for the resurgence of Da'esh" in a "significant threat to regional, international, and European security", Schulz added, referring to an Islamist militant group that is also known as Isis.

It would "exacerbate civilian suffering and provoke further displacements which will further increase the number of refugees," Schulz said.

The call was echoed in Paris, where French president Emmanuel Macron said Turkey was "putting millions of people at humanitarian risk", and in Rome, where Italian foreign minister Luigi Di Maio "condemned" Turkey's actions.

But back in New York, the US ambassador to the UN, Kelly Craft, and the Russian envoy, Vassily Nebenzia, took a different line.

The US did not ask Turkey to stop, although Craft did say, in her own press briefing, that: "Failure [by Turkey] to play by the rules, to protect vulnerable populations, failure to guarantee that Isis cannot exploit these actions to reconstitute, will have consequences".

This man is clearly such a great leader that he will be re-elected in a LANDSLIDE. Upsetting foolish liberals who doth protest.
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This man is clearly such a great leader that he will be re-elected in a LANDSLIDE. Upsetting foolish liberals who doth protest.
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I think he’s got this all fixed.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/don-t-be-tough-guy-trump-s-extraordinary-letter-erdogan-n1067746?fbclid=IwAR3_tTimx2yf-6wExyOQX_gn3fT4uVVTKtAktOSrVzsQVdR5dFpvJ_7AorY
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We will see but I will caution rushing to judgment.
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This man is clearly such a great leader that he will be re-elected in a LANDSLIDE. Upsetting foolish liberals who doth protest.
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I wouldn’t double your bet just yet and you man Trumps letter to Turkey should tell you something about his lack of diplomacy skills, probably should have sent it after milk and cookie time was over.
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Give Trump some more Adderall
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What does it mean that the FBI reportedly has a counterintelligence investigation on Giuliani? First and foremost, it means that the FBI believes he may pose a national security threat to the United States.
CI investigations aren’t predicated on a suspicion that someone has broken the law. Rather, they typically begin because some has had contact with people linked to foreign intelligence and/or is furthering the interests of a foreign power in the U.S.
Sometimes people may be targeted unwittingly. For this reason, and bc CI investigations have broader threshold to open (and are secret), they have to be closed after 6 months if no actual threat exists or it can be neutralized in that time.
Based on reports that the FBI was questioning people about Giuliano’s counterintelligence related issues as far back as Feb/Mar, an ongoing investigation would mean that this is a “Full” rather than “Preliminary” Investigation (former can be open indefinitely)
Given that Giuliani is an USPER, the bar to have a Full Investigation on him would be higher than for nonUSPERs. Also, in my experience, people who are being “unwittingly” targeted are neutralized pretty quickly (usually with a warning/heads up that they are targets)
(I should also note that the bar would be especially high since Giuliani is POTUS’ lawyer and, well...honestly wth would the FBI go through this movie all over again if there not some serious red flags???)
So basically, the FBI thinks something bad — and likely not “unwitting” — is up: That Giuliani is a conduit for pushing the agendas of foreign intelligence and/or foreign interests. Which we really don’t want happening, especially in the Oval Office
A couple of things: First, a CI investigation is not mutually exclusive with a criminal investigation. They can happen on different tracks. Given that SDNY has public corruption unit involved, there appears to be a separate criminal investigation on G as well
Second, there can be criminal violations on the CI side: Those are espionage (not likely here) or FARA violations (more likely, given what G’s associates were up to). But CI investigations don’t have to — and often don’t — result in criminal prosecutions
And bc CI cases don’t often cross over into criminal prosecutions, they would stay within FBI, and not bleed into SDNY unless and until that happened. (It’s not clear to me how much Main Justice would be involved, and how much power Barr would have over it)
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Just keep believing there’s nothing to see here
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Pete,you have a tendency to post a lot of words that don’t amount to a hill of beans.
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I think the clown car should be ungraded to a buss🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
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I think the clown car should be ungraded to a buss🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
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Meanwhile there are clowns who know how to spell bus.🙄
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I just read the “letter”
Good luck fools
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Ha,you just got played again.
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Perhaps you’ve missed the letter from the Stable Genius to Erdogan

Dear Mr. President,

Let’s work out a good deal! You don’t want to be responsible for slaughtering thousands of people, and I don’t want to be responsible for destroying the Turkish economy—and I will. I’ve already given you a little sample with respect to Pastor Brunson.
I have worked hard to solve some of your problems. Don’t let the world down. You can make a great deal. General Mazloum is willing to negotiate with you, and he is willing to make concessions that they would never have made in the past. I am confidentially enclosing a copy of his letter to me, just received.

History will look upon you favorably if you get this done the right and humane way. It will look upon you forever as the devil if good things don’t happen. Don’t be a tough guy. Don’t be a fool!
I will call you later.
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Mitt Romney
Iran’s power position has significantly increased with Turkey wiping out our friends, the Kurds, in Syria. Because the U.S. is abandoning its position in Syria, Assad is becoming stronger, and Iran is smiling ear to ear. This is a foreign policy disaster.
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Will Hurd
Because of this disastrous decision to pull U.S. troops from northern Syria and abandon the Kurds, and all the actions and inactions that led up to this decision, we have let our friends down, hurt our national security and ceded leadership in the region to Russia and Iran.
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End endless wars. Keep the troops safe.
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End endless wars. Keep the troops safe.
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Yea, and counterinsurgency operations. Make ISIS great again!

Perhaps you’ve missed the letter from the Stable Genius to Erdogan

Dear Mr. President,

Let’s work out a good deal! You don’t want to be responsible for slaughtering thousands of people, and I don’t want to be responsible for destroying the Turkish economy—and I will. I’ve already given you a little sample with respect to Pastor Brunson.
I have worked hard to solve some of your problems. Don’t let the world down. You can make a great deal. General Mazloum is willing to negotiate with you, and he is willing to make concessions that they would never have made in the past. I am confidentially enclosing a copy of his letter to me, just received.

History will look upon you favorably if you get this done the right and humane way. It will look upon you forever as the devil if good things don’t happen. Don’t be a tough guy. Don’t be a fool!
I will call you later.
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Should post Trump's remarks from yesterday. He's lost what little he had left. It's like he's channeling Beetlejuice.

You are 1000 days too late to worry about the former President, the white house has a new occupant.


You are too biased to care or recognize that this is what Putin does. He outmaneuvered Trump in Syria just as he outmaneuvered Obama.

You are too biased to care or recognize that this is what Putin does. He outmaneuvered Trump in Syria just as he outmaneuvered Obama.

Exactly why a president who doesn’t have capable staff and doesn’t use all the information he is given fails.
Your gut works fine after it has digested all the available information with only echo chambers you’re guessing
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Exactly why a president who doesn’t have capable staff and doesn’t use all the information he is given fails.
Your gut works fine after it has digested all the available information with only echo chambers you’re guessing
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Are you talking about Trump or Obama? I can't tell.

Are you talking about Trump or Obama? I can't tell.

Since Obama is now part of history, Trump is the only one who can act today.
Do you think trump’s actions were part of an administration plan?
Or an impulsive behavior that he justifies by saying he promised to do that and he’s a Promise Keeper.
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Yea, and counterinsurgency operations. Make ISIS great again!

So which countries are in favor of ISIS? If the US were to totally withdraw from fighting ISIS, would Iran and the rest of the Middle Eastern countries, and Russia, and China and the EU just sit back and let ISIS have its way?

Since Obama is now part of history, Trump is the only one who can act today.
Do you think trump’s actions were part of an administration plan?
Or an impulsive behavior that he justifies by saying he promised to do that and he’s a Promise Keeper.
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Frankly, I think it was a stupid decision and he was generally rolled by RE and VP. I also think the RE and VP rolled the previous president.

I think of the ten good things Trump did WRT Syria, which were far better than what BO did there, are mostly unwound by this stupid action. Yet we are currently still in a better position WRT Syria than when BO handed the reigns to DT.

Frankly, I think it was a stupid decision and he was generally rolled by RE and VP. I also think the RE and VP rolled the previous president.

I think of the ten good things Trump did WRT Syria, which were far better than what BO did there, are mostly unwound by this stupid action. Yet we are currently still in a better position WRT Syria than when BO handed the reigns to DT.

How are we in a better position WRT ISIS?
Will the Kurds once again ally with us against ISIS?
What's the strategy to put down the current resurgence of ISIS?

Or is it don't worry they are 7000 miles away and blah blah will have to deal with them?

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/middle-east/2019-10-16/isis-already-rising-ashes

https://www.crisisgroup.org/middle-east-north-africa/eastern-mediterranean/syria/207-averting-isis-resurgence-iraq-and-syria

https://www.kurdistan24.net/en/analysis/61275d12-c8da-4d89-bbfa-f3008d6cef41

http://www.understandingwar.org/report/isiss-second-comeback-assessing-next-isis-insurgency

https://www.foxnews.com/world/jack-keane-isis-return-syria

Turkey to suspend Syria offensive, US says


Seems the Trump administration is the piro and the firefighter

next phase they will move to Seev we saved the Kurds :jester:

They wrote this up too quick, Everything about this entire story sounds fishy. Trump pulls out, Turkey moves in the next day. Pence and Pompeo just happen to be going there three days later. Pence does a Stern-face photo op and there is a 13 point cease fire done in 3 hours?

Putin has his entire bought and paid for troupe of Puppets dancing

But on the plus side, Pence & Pompeo did get Erdogan to agree to investigate Joe Biden

As if on cue.

Mr Pence credited Donald Trump's "strong leadership" during the announcement, saying: "He wanted a ceasefire. He wanted to stop the violence

What makes anyone think the kurds are going anywhere?
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Perry running for the door, EU ambassador and Mulvaney confirm QPQ was in play and Putin is toasting the fact he helped this moron get elected. But at least the Trump family can make some money at the G7 or wait is it now the G8, as he plans to invite his bud Putin, before he is cuffed and taken to New York,
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A Turkish official briefed by participants in the talks said the Turkish side was surprised and relieved at how easy the negotiations were. “We got everything we wanted,” said the adviser to the Turkish Foreign Ministry of talks with Pence.
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Like two kids in a lot, you have got to let them fight and then you pull them apart," he told a rally in Texas. How Trump sees the issue with Turkey and the kurds
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Erdogan today says his "safe zone" as agreed with Trump stretches 450x32 kms, from the Euphrates to Iraq. This includes all majority Kurdish and Christian areas of Syria. Senior U.S. officials say it is far narrower. Listen to Erdogan, not Trump.
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Under the Putin-Erdogan deal, the Syrian regime will take control of the main border crossings with the Iraqi Kurdistan Region at Fishkabour and Rabiya. The president seems not to realize the extent to which the entire position in NE Syria has unraveled.
Putin and Erdogan want us out. That’s been their plan for some time. What they agreed to yesterday makes it very difficult to realistically maintain a US presence, let alone one that might meaningfully impact the situation on the ground in Syria or against ISIS.
How would a small residual US force be sustained without land supply? Extremely difficult and high risk. In military affairs, you don’t preserve options after making a catastrophic decision without thought or preparation. You foreclose them, as last three weeks demonstrate.

We just handed over control of the Middle East to Russia.
What's next?

with global warming nobody is going to want to be there in a couple of years anyway

with global warming nobody is going to want to be there in a couple of years anyway

🍑🤡
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America 1st
Get used to it
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Trump says he's lifting all sanctions put on Turkey in response to its Syria incursion.

I think Republicans are getting close to the limit

Leader McConnell@senatemajldr
I am introducing a Senate resolution to reaffirm the need for a strong U.S. presence and oppose premature withdrawal from Syria or Afghanistan. I hope my colleagues on both sides will take the opportunity to affirm these principles on the record.

Trump suggests that Obama allowed children to be killed by not honoring his “powerful" Syria red line in 2013.

At the time, Trump urged Obama not to strike Syria.

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
President Obama, do not attack Syria. There is no upside and tremendous downside. Save your "powder" for another (and more important) day!
9:21 AM · Sep 7, 2013

President Trump says some US forces will stay in Syria to guard oil and the US will decide what to do with it in the future.

President Trump says "a few" ISIS prisoners escaped, but most were recaptured.

US Special. Rep for Syria Jeffrey tells Congress that over 100 ISIS prisoners have escaped custody during the Turkish invasion of northern Syria and displacement of Kurdish forces, and "we do not know where they are"

And to top off Trumps very special day up to now

A lawyer for Donald Trump argued in federal court that the president could shoot someone on 5th Avenue in New York City and not be prosecuted.

That is fascinating
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you can argue the presence keeps turkey at bay. how many american lives is that worth?

pete, a speck of honesty would
mandate that you don’t only look at the benefit of leaving the troops there. you have to compare the benefit and the cost.

and again, trump campaigned
on this, his victory doesn’t suggest to me that americans want troops
there forever.
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BREAKING: US to send "additional military assets" to protect Syrian oil, says Pentagon - AFP

So it’s official. More troops to Syria. And this time it really is ‘blood for oil’—a rare instance in which farce has given way to tragedy instead of the other way about.

as you said, "how many american lives is that worth?"

What's the benefit vs cost for this idiocy?
"everything looks swell when you celebrate the benefit and pretend there’s no cost."

In 2013 the decision was made to not occupy Syria because to provide a safe space for our troops on the ground would cost $1B per month, instead the decision made was to provide Special Forces and equipment to the Kurds for a far smaller exposure and cost.

Military and foreign policy by tweet, what could possibly go wrong?
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Let's get this straight. We won’t use US troops to defend our allies who were critical to defeating ISIS, but we will use US troops to defend oil against an ISIS that has reappeared because we no longer defend our allies.

Let's get this straight. We won’t use US troops to defend our allies who were critical to defeating ISIS, but we will use US troops to defend oil against an ISIS that has reappeared because we no longer defend our allies.
ISIS has been defeated Pete. Get over it.
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Pentagon sources pretty openly admitting they exploited Trump's obsession with "the oil" to get him to agree to leave forces in Syria, which the military wants to do for other reasons

Just think what other countries do

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Imagine that!
🍔👍🏿
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John Kelley
"What was working in Syria was that for very little investment, the Kurds were doing all the fighting, the vast majority of the dying, and we were providing intelligence and fire support assistance. And we were winning."
Imagine that!
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Ha ha
Good get
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Ha ha
Good get
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🍑🤡
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