Durham’s probe into Russian investigation now a criminal investigation [Archive] - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

Jim in CT

10-26-2019, 08:05 AM

Obviously neither of us work in the intelligence community, but I make my opinion based on the fact Trump lies daily, it's how he operates. The interviews of some highly respected X CIA, FBI and intelligence personnel unequivocally deny any political bias in the operations of those agencies. So do I believe the habitual lier or highly respected people who worked in those departments; easy call for me anyway. The investigation into the investigation, which was already done and signed off on, should never have started and the only reason it did, is because Barr is the new Trump enforcer.

And regardless of what you think of Trump (I agree he's a liar), please tell me if I'm wrong about any of the following...

Certain high level DOJ officials, like FBI agents Stzrok and Paige, made no secret in their texts that they really wanted Hilary to win, and also played key roles in investigating both Hilary and Trump

The DOJ used the Steele dossier, paid for by the Clinton campaign, as part of the FISA application to spy on an American citizen. They did not tell the FISA judge that the dossier was political opposition research. That American citizen has not been charged, ket alone convicted, of anything.

The DOJ was spying on the Poppodopolous guy, part of the Trump campaign. He has also not been convicted of anything.

Certainly there's no smoking gun there. but isn't it maybe worth investigating, especially in the hands of someone with Durham's resume?

If they didn't do anything wrong, let's say so and drop it. If they did, let's admit it and fix it.

Got Stripers

10-26-2019, 08:06 AM

US attorney Durham, not Trump, declared it's now a criminal matter. Look up his record.

Wasn't suggest he isn't a good guy, I'm saying it never should have started in the first place, Barr is being used by Trump for political gains and he for some strange reason is acting like his enforcer.

wdmso

10-26-2019, 08:08 AM

Right, they're regurgitating Chris Hayes and Rachael Maddow. No facts.
To bad like most of your conspiracys wrong again.. but keep thinking thats what people push back against your conclusions do.. its your easy button

As for predictable responses yes mine are predictable and very consistent .. they are always in response to yours or othrt conspiracy driven suggestions of whats truth and whats not.

You really need to see beyound and thru your victimization of Trump

Because with out doubt if you replaced Obama for Trump or Erich holder for Barr or Clinton for Pompeo

With the facts as they are to day. The trascipts the audio having a private lawer doing governments business

Your tune would be so very diffrent.. why would that be the case? Facts should be facts that is unless your just a partisan hack or just hypocritically . And clearly your both
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Jim in CT

10-26-2019, 08:08 AM

they don't care, they are mired in propaganda

Obviously you are right. Anything that comes from the right, is instantly and reflexively dismissed. It's not possible that Republicans can be victims of liberal wrongdoing, not even remotely possible. Because orange man bad.

And they say Trumps supporters are close minded and thoughtless.

Jim in CT

10-26-2019, 08:09 AM

, I'm saying it never should have started in the first place, .

Based on WHAT? Because you don't like Trump, therefore he can never have a valid reason to request any investigation into anything?

Jim in CT

10-26-2019, 08:11 AM

Facts should be facts that is unless your just a partisan hack or just hypocritically . And clearly your both
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I'm the one waiting for facts. You're the one who was 100% ignorant of the details of the investigation, yet somehow already concluded that it was a conspiracy-laden sham.

But you're the one who gets the facts first? And I'm the one who jumps to politically motivated conclusions? Not even you believe that. Tell us some major policy items on which you vehemently disagree with democrats. I'll just wait patiently.

Pete F.

10-26-2019, 10:08 AM

Well, the President DID get that urgent email outlining a unique legal theory opportunity from that Nigerian Prince. I think Bill Barr is overseas investigating.
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Jim in CT

10-26-2019, 10:45 AM

Well, the President DID get that urgent email outlining a unique legal theory opportunity from that Nigerian Prince. I think Bill Barr is overseas investigating.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

You're all scared sh*tless that there's something there, and that Durham is the guy to find it.

scottw

10-26-2019, 11:00 AM

You're all scared sh*tless that there's something there, and that Durham is the guy to find it.

yup....it's pretty clear what was going on...

Pete F.

10-26-2019, 11:34 AM

Is William Barr the Head of DOJ or QAnon?
News that John Durham is investigating the Russia probe as a criminal matter is further evidence that the Justice Department is just a tool for Trump now
I warned you William Barr was the most dangerous man in America.
I warned you he would burn Washington to the ground.
I warned you Barr would shatter the Justice Department into a million fragments.
I warned you Barr would run roughshod over the law, mangle the Constitution, shred the separation of powers, and turn the federal government into a weapon to destroy anyone Donald Trump designates as an enemy. From the moment he manipulated and distorted the findings of the Mueller Report to protect Trump, it was clear that Barr is a living, breathing abuse of power.
As opposed to the projected imaginings of Trump’s hated phantoms of the Deep State, Barr really is at the heart of a government conspiracy to destroy any constraints on the power of the executive branch and to eliminate any accountability for the president of the United States.
For the attorney general to personally travel to the U.K. and Italy to investigate Mueller’s Russia probe, and for the president’s minions to be dispatched to Ukraine and elsewhere stalking these Deep State phantoms, was silly enough. That Barr and others came up empty — as one knew they most certainly would — is an embarrassment, but in an administration without shame or boundaries, the solution to failure is to double down.
At Trump’s personal direction, the Barr “Justice” Department has empowered U.S. Attorney John Durham, a prosecutor of a former reputation for seriousness, to run point on an investigation into the origins of the FBI’s own probe into Russian interference in the 2016 election. This week, we learned that probe now treats the investigation as a criminal matter. Trump seeks not only to destroy the people who tried to reveal the truth about Russia and 2016, but also to intimidate anyone else who dares to tell the truth about his rampant, ongoing regime of corruption and malfeasance. Barr is his weapon, his tool, his agent of vengeance.
That the MAGA and QAnon crowds see Durham as an avenging angel, a death-dealing wild dog here to maul and devour the Deep State is both laughable and horrifying. Their fantasies of roundups, mass arrests, secret indictments, and one-way tickets to GITMO for anyone connected to the operations to identify and neutralize Russian election interference are a common element of their wishcasting. They’re convinced Durham will open the floodgates and bust open a conspiracy that doesn’t exist.
The idea that the DOJ’s FISA warrants will prove a conspiracy against Trump fails to meet the laugh test. Barr has access to all of this information, and if any of it would clear Trump’s name or damage his targets, Barr would have leaked it or launched the DOJ’s resources on something other than a long-range, multi-year Durham investigatory slog.
They want charges of treason. They want Comey, Strozk, Page, Brennan, Clapper, and others arrested. They want a criminal probe of the Mueller effort, despite their contradictory assertion that the Mueller Report exonerated him.
The Trump folks built a baroque conspiracy in their minds that involves a Deep State with powers well beyond what actually exists.
It’s vital to their narrative that sinister forces have had it in for Trump since the beginning. These Deep Staters are — in the best tradition of all authoritarian propaganda — forces that are both all-powerful and purely malevolent. Whether it’s liberal academia, the mainstream media, Islamists, gays, globalists, or Never Trump Human Scum, the agitprop always casts these forces as having powers beyond human understanding.
As the Trump administration feeds its conspiracy-addled base, Barr’s DOJ dribble out a steady stream of alleged discoveries and hypothetical cases to try to assemble a storyline that runs right back to the ultimate superpowered bad guy in their pantheon: the Kenyan Muslim Socialist Sharia Sleeper Agent, Barack Obama. They’re already pushing the emergent theme of “What did Obama know, and when did he know it” — despite the ludicrous nature of the claim.
There was only one 2016 conspiracy, and that was the one Russia waged to elect Trump.
That it’s all fake doesn’t matter. Clicks and tweets are all that counts in the president’s domain. That’s why Barr’s political commissars at the DOJ will feed the breathless coverage of Durham. That’s why the descriptions of the “conspiracy” will grow more fevered and more exaggerated, and why Fox will fill the airwaves with ever-more operatic claims of a plot against Trump.
But they’re hunting for nothing.
The real government — including the intelligence services — doesn’t work that way. There is no unified secret state, no Intel Community Illuminati secretly pulling strings. The origin story of the investigation into Russia didn’t emerge in a smoke-filled room, but bubbled up from reports of shady Russian connections. There was only one 2016 conspiracy, and that was the one Russia waged to elect Trump.
Even Barr’s DOJ won’t deliver a conspiracy big enough to satisfy the Trump crowd. Did Lisa Page and Peter Strzok send some text messages that weren’t professional? Sure. But that’s hardly going to rise to the level where a show trial drags the alleged bad guys before the bar of Justice.
The final element of this crisis is the increasing legal dissonance. Barr is playing antagonist to the so-called Deep State while ignoring and bypassing the actual crimes being committed by the president, and the president’s minions, staffers, allies, and outside legal counsel. His total disinterest in requiring the White House to follow the law, his selective persecution — yes, I used that word advisedly — of Trump’s enemies and his refusal to uphold his oath is stunning.
Barr is openly coordinating an illegal and dangerous effort in support of the president’s private legal defense and political defense efforts. He is weaponizing the DOJ to target Trump’s political opponents. Barr will investigate the investigators until he either breaks them or intimidates them into submission.
Barr has chosen to be Trump’s enforcer, buffer, and legal gymnast. And for that, he poses a risk not only to the DOJ, but to the Republic itself.

Rick Wilson
Oct 26 ·
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Pete F.

10-26-2019, 11:43 AM

You're all scared sh*tless that there's something there, and that Durham is the guy to find it.

I have nothing to fear from Durham, though I am concerned that the Barr Sshow will decimate any ability our investigative agencies have to look at internal threats.
That though, not truth or justice is the point of this investigation.
Barr’s history makes that self evident.
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scottw

10-26-2019, 12:09 PM

I have nothing to fear from Durham,

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I bet you are on his radar...you better watch out

wdmso

10-26-2019, 03:20 PM

Nope. I said there's evidence, which there is, and that it should be investigated. Even Pete said there's value in investigating that, but you don't call him out.

Whats your evidence?? On either investigations.

Thats right you cant post any.. what a shocker
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wdmso

10-26-2019, 03:30 PM

I'm the one waiting for facts. You're the one who was 100% ignorant of the details of the investigation, yet somehow already concluded that it was a conspiracy-laden sham.

But you're the one who gets the facts first? And I'm the one who jumps to politically motivated conclusions? Not even you believe that. Tell us some major policy items on which you vehemently disagree with democrats. I'll just wait patiently.

Glad you dodged the 1st part of my response.. lol
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Jim in CT

10-26-2019, 03:58 PM

Whats your evidence?? On either investigations.

Thats right you cant post any.. what a shocker
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So you expect me to post evidence, between the time you type those two sentences?

wdmso

10-26-2019, 05:05 PM

So you expect me to post evidence, between the time you type those two sentences?
No I expect factual information. Or at least circumstantial evidence When anyone accuses some
Of wrong doing.. So far I have seen neither from the DOJ the white house you or the media.. plenty of speculation however
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Sea Dangles

10-26-2019, 05:38 PM

Who loves to speculate as much as the snowflakes?
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Jim in CT

10-26-2019, 06:06 PM

No I expect factual information. Or at least circumstantial evidence When anyone accuses some
Of wrong doing.. So far I have seen neither from the DOJ the white house you or the media.. plenty of speculation however
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OK, so we have seen texts from senior DOJ officials, making it obvious they wanted Hilary to win. These same people played key roles in investigating Hilary and Trump.

We also know that the DOJ used political campaign fodder, paid for by a rival political campaign, to get a FISA warrant to invade the privacy of an American citizen, and they didn't tell the FISA judge where that dossier came from.

We also know the DOJ used multiple approaches to spy on Poppodopolous, a senior Trump campaign official.

Were you not aware of any of this? Or are you denying that it's fishy when you add it all up?

If no one did anything wrong, the investigation will either show that, or will be a sham. We don't know yet, because nothing has been released.

Jim in CT

10-26-2019, 06:07 PM

Who loves to speculate as much as the snowflakes?
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Perhaps weathermen, but at least weathermen are a lot more accurate.

Pete F.

10-26-2019, 06:38 PM

detbuch

10-26-2019, 07:01 PM

Got Stripers

10-26-2019, 07:24 PM

There you go again with that "believe" stuff.

That’s such a crock, this board is ALL about believe, what you believe and what I believe don’t always match, but 90% or more of all that is posted here is about personal beliefs and point of view.
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detbuch

10-26-2019, 07:31 PM

That’s such a crock, this board is ALL about believe, what you believe and what I believe don’t always match, but 90% or more of all that is posted here is about personal beliefs and point of view.
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If you believe that, it must be so.

Jim in CT

10-26-2019, 09:11 PM

We're quickly approaching a moment of reckoning where we'll all have to decide whom to believe: Donald Trump or every halfway responsible person who's ever worked near him.

Sadly, a not-insignificant portion will choose Trump.
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At this moment, as of right now, what's your evidence that we can't believe US attorney Durham? What's your evidence that he's not trustworthy, as opposed to being an honorable and skilled prosecutor? We're all ears...all you have, is that he might make trouble for Trumps opponents, and that's all you need to know. Case closed.

detbuch

10-26-2019, 10:06 PM

At this moment, as of right now, what's your evidence that we can't believe US attorney Durham? What's your evidence that he's not trustworthy, as opposed to being an honorable and skilled prosecutor? We're all ears...all you have, is that he might make trouble for Trumps opponents, and that's all you need to know. Case closed.

You're not getting it Jim. It's all about belief. It's like a Muslim arguing with a Catholic. That discussion will get nowhere, except a fight. You have to understand that we are in the back end of a Post Modern age. There are no absolute truths. You have your truth and Pete has his truth. The concept of a philosophically Western style rational discussion based on reason and some semblance of basic values, or principles is of no use since those things don't exist. When it comes to differences, the only thing that matters is power. Who is the strongest, or can shout the loudest, or get the most followers to believe him, wins the argument.

Sea Dangles (and Got Stripers in his way) has it about right. There is no point to an actual discussion. Just say stuff. It's easier, and more fun.

Sea Dangles

10-26-2019, 11:11 PM

Bingo,
Nobody here has an opinion that actually matters. But a lot of folks like to spout off like little teapots...enjoy your predictions.
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scottw

10-26-2019, 11:43 PM

COMEY ON TRUMP WINNING IN 2020: I’LL BE AT ‘MY NEW HOME IN NEW ZEALAND’

or perhaps in prison...:bl:

wdmso

10-27-2019, 07:53 AM

OK, so we have seen texts from senior DOJ officials, making it obvious they wanted Hilary to win. These same people played key roles in investigating Hilary and Trump.

If no one did anything wrong, the investigation will either show that, or will be a sham. We don't know yet, because nothing has been released.

What hypocritical statement..

thats exactly what happened at the end of the investagation thats now being now investgated.

But you never held that view until now.. before that its was carter page this carter page that how the Government screwed him .. yet no arrests no trial no jail. Guess you were wearing flip flop when you responded

Omg Text messages are your smoking gun

But meeting with russians asking for their help was a nothing burger... and for the billionth time who started the steel doc? Feel free not to answer you may perjure yourself
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Jim in CT

10-27-2019, 08:07 AM

What hypocritical statement..

thats exactly what happened at the end of the investagation thats now being now investgated.

But you never held that view until now.. before that its was carter page this carter page that how the Government screwed him .. yet no arrests no trial no jail. Guess you were wearing flip flop when you responded

Omg Text messages are your smoking gun

But meeting with russians asking for their help was a nothing burger... and for the billionth time who started the steel doc? Feel free not to answer you may perjure yourself
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i can’t even follow that, you’re talking jibberish.

it’s hypocritical to say “let’s not judge the investigation until it’s released and made public”?

wdmso, here’s what it boils down to for you and pete and spence...

liberal=good, conservative=bad, no exceptions.
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Jim in CT

10-27-2019, 08:11 AM

You're not getting it Jim. It's all about belief. It's like a Muslim arguing with a Catholic. That discussion will get nowhere, except a fight. You have to understand that we are in the back end of a Post Modern age. There are no absolute truths. You have your truth and Pete has his truth. The concept of a philosophically Western style rational discussion based on reason and some semblance of basic values, or principles is of no use since those things don't exist. When it comes to differences, the only thing that matters is power. Who is the strongest, or can shout the loudest, or get the most followers to believe him, wins the argument.

Sea Dangles (and Got Stripers in his way) has it about right. There is no point to an actual discussion. Just say stuff. It's easier, and more fun.

i get all that. but when the libs here say the investigation is a sham, i’m just asking what they base that belief on? because they don’t know a single thing about the investigation yet, som curious as to how they’ve come to believe it’s a sham, based on zero knowledge.

if a muslim asks me why i prefer catholicism, i can articulate very specific reasons why, point to actual evidence that actually exists.

these guys can’t. i’ve asked them all, and except for GS, they completely dodged.
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scottw

10-27-2019, 08:28 AM

curious as to how they’ve come to believe it’s a sham, based on zero knowledge.

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bitter snowflakes

Jim in CT

10-27-2019, 08:34 AM

bitter snowflakes

i think scared sh*tless, more than bitter.
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wdmso

10-27-2019, 11:49 AM

i can’t even follow that, you’re talking jibberish.

it’s hypocritical to say “let’s not judge the investigation until it’s released and made public”?

wdmso, here’s what it boils down to for you and pete and spence...

liberal=good, conservative=bad, no exceptions.
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Jim your just a partisan cat just chasing a laser pointer .. you dont know why .. or even need a reason.. other than its has to be republican laser pointer

Jim in CT

10-27-2019, 04:23 PM

Jim your just a partisan cat just chasing a laser pointer .. you dont know why .. or even need a reason.. other than its has to be republican laser pointer

uh, false. i’m in favor of gay marriage , opposed to the death penalty, in favor of more gun control, in favor of expanding health care coverage to people with pre existing conditions.

please tell me, on which major policy items, you agree with republicans?
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scottw

10-27-2019, 04:42 PM

uh, false. i’m in favor of gay marriage , opposed to the death penalty, in favor of more gun control, in favor of expanding health care coverage to people with pre existing conditions.

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we're gonna have to deport you with the rest of the democrats

ReelinRod

10-30-2019, 09:33 PM

Wow, some funny stuff here. So here's a post I wrote for another forum; seems like people here need some facts. Yeah, it's a little long but it lays out precisely what Durham is investigating . . .

NSA Director Admiral Mike Rogers, who, without informing Clapper or Brennan or anyone, in what can only be described as "White Hat" frustration, went to Trump Tower a week and a half after election day and told Trump about the incredible amount of spying on him and his people done by the Obama administration. Trump vacated Trump Tower the next day and moved critical transition operations to Trump National in Bedminster NJ, never to return to Trump Tower.

Make no mistake, Trump has known what was done to him from the earliest days . . .

Here's how we got there . . .

In late 2015, Admiral Rogers had discovered anomalies in the use of NSA metadata searches, set up under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). He tried various controls to tighten things up but to no avail. We have come to know this activity as "unmasking".

This specifically means abuse of FISA §702(16)(17) queries; a "702" is an American citizen, subsection 16 refers to searches with "To or From" parameters, subsection 17 denotes an "About" search.

Anytime an American citizen is swept up in NSA surveillance, all identifiers (email address, phone number, name, etc) must be shielded and can only be exposed under certain highly regulated conditions.

In April of 2016, Admiral Rogers became aware that the FBI was allowing "private contractors" to have complete access to the NSA database; this was shocking to him . . .

On April 18, 2016, Admiral Rogers shut down this private contractor access; remember that date.

Rogers then asked NSA’s Office of Compliance to conduct a “fundamental baseline review of compliance associated with 702” and issue a report to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC). They issued a report to the court in October that was complete BS. . . The NSA lied to the court and Rogers knew it.

Admiral Rogers then went straight to the FISA court and told them the report was bogus and there were problems in the use of the NSA database. The court began its own investigation and they issued a order in April of 2017 (note, that is after Trump was sworn in).

In the court's top secret report (https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3718776/2016-Cert-FISC-Memo-Opin-Order-Apr-2017-1.pdf) (declassified by Trump) they found that in the short 6 month window they examined, 85% of the queries were illegal and that (going by the at least 5 character redaction) amounted to thousands of searches and there was nothing to lead them to believe that number was an outlier . . . It wasn't outrageous to think that volume of illegal searches could be typical going back to 2012:

https://i.postimg.cc/NGWDZWKB/FISC-Court-1a-800x505.png

The FISC reported that the decision to allow this private contractors access was the result of "deliberate decisionmaking" and that the NSA and FBI kept this hidden from the court until Admiral Rogers informed them.

The FISC also ruled that no matter what agreements were made between agencies or with outside contractors, that would not overrule the rules for keeping US citizen identifiers confidential:

https://i.postimg.cc/Nf6ZWZgr/fisa-abuse-improper-decisionmaking.jpg

The FISC also reported that the private contractors had unfettered access to the database and that access was well beyond any reasonable need:

https://i.postimg.cc/CKqG2pg3/fisa-abuse-contractors-v3.jpg

There's that date again, April 18, 2016, in the last sentence of the screen grab above . . . It is important because the very next day after "private contractor" access to the NSA database was shut-down by Rogers, Mary Jacoby, wife of Glenn Simpson, founder of Fusion GPS, was at the White House and stayed there for 14 hours . . . Now, that's a transcript I'd like to see . . .

Screen grab of White House visitor log:

https://i.postimg.cc/x8571WXs/mary-jacoby-1.jpg

By the end of April, Fusion GPS was hired by the DNC/Hillary, no doubt willing and able to use all the illegal data harvested out of the NSA, on HRC opponents and later, Trump and associates.

There is no denying that when the IG report comes out and the Barr / Durham investigation is released, it will be evident that the Obama administration spied on hundreds if not thousands of US citizens for years, for political purposes, and that illegal activity mutated into an absolute monster once Trump became the nominee.

This illegality goes right into the Oval Office. This illegal and 4th Amendment violating information on US citizens, was incorporated into the Presidential Daily Briefing so it could be distributed in a very secure manner to people in the administration for political action. Samantha Powers, Susan Rice and Ben Rhodes are the primary actors in the White House involved in unmasking.

It will be evident that the entire Russia Hoax (including the Mueller investigation) was an elaborate, ever evolving and expanding cover-up of the illegal activities done before election day, essentially trying to get all the illegal "spying" onto some semblance of a legal footing with falsely obtained FISA warrants.

Looking into those falsely obtained FISA warrants is why Barr and Durham have been crossing the globe, traveling to Italy and Australia and the UK, finding out about CIA 's work with foreign governments doing things against US citizens that was actually illegal.

This is only a short, superficial look at what the REAL investigations are all about. The depth and degree of criminality of the Obama administration will be shocking and breathtaking and the reckoning will be delicious.

Sea Dangles

10-30-2019, 09:36 PM

I think you might be on to something here.
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ReelinRod

10-30-2019, 09:59 PM

I think you might be on to something here.
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Remember the January 11, 2017 Politico article outlining the 2016 Ukraine election meddling?

Ukrainian efforts to sabotage Trump backfire (https://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/ukraine-sabotage-trump-backfire-233446)
Kiev officials are scrambling to make amends with the president-elect after quietly working to boost Clinton. (https://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/ukraine-sabotage-trump-backfire-233446)

The woman in that story, who worked for the DNC and colluded with the government of Ukraine to sabotage Trump, (which is what Trump was asking President Zelenskyy to look into and talk to Barr about), popped back up in an article today about the well known but secret "whistleblower" (https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2019/10/30/whistleblower_exposed_close_to_biden_brennan_dnc_o ppo_researcher_120996.html) . . .

Today we find out the whistleblower" is a registered Democrat held over from the Obama White House, previously worked with former Vice President Joe Biden and former CIA Director John Brennan, a vocal critic of Trump who helped initiate the Russia “collusion” investigation of the Trump campaign during the 2016 election."

Not only that, he, "left his National Security Council posting in the White House’s West Wing in mid-2017 amid concerns about negative leaks to the media. . . . He was accused of working against Trump and leaking against Trump,” said a former NSC official, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss intelligence matters."

We already know (and that Schiff lied about it) that the "whistleblower" "huddled for “guidance” with the staff of House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff, including former colleagues also held over from the Obama era whom Schiff’s office had recently recruited from the NSC."

And now the cherry on top, we find out that the whistleblower, "worked with a Democratic National Committee operative who dug up dirt [as reported in the Politico article] on the Trump campaign during the 2016 election, inviting her into the White House for meetings, . . . The operative, Alexandra Chalupa, a Ukrainian-American who supported Hillary Clinton, led an effort to link the Republican campaign to the Russian government. “He knows her. He had her in the White House,” said one former co-worker, who requested anonymity to discuss the sensitive matter."

Now we know why the whistleblower was so upset, and just had to go run screaming in horror to Schiff and write his report!

He learned Trump was asking Ukrainian President Zelenskyy to investigate his 'comrade in arms' in sabotaging Trump and possibly exposing him and his seditious actions in the White House!

What a patriot!

scottw

10-31-2019, 05:09 AM

lots of democrats and deep state partisans need to go to jail here.....drain the swamp baby!

PaulS

10-31-2019, 07:01 AM

Nice try. Everything the whistleblower said has been confirmed by others who have heard the call 1st hand.

Sea Dangles

10-31-2019, 07:07 AM

Liberal fool
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scottw

10-31-2019, 07:09 AM

Nice try. Everything the whistleblower said has been confirmed by others who have heard the call 1st hand.

we have the transcript...what the whistleblower said it was told thirdhand is now irrelevant...it's no big deal unless you are a melting snowflake determined to exact revenge on the object of your years long ire...stop ignoring the real crimes and criminals

PaulS

10-31-2019, 07:40 AM

we have the transcript...what the whistleblower said it was told thirdhand is now irrelevant...it's no big deal unless you are a melting snowflake determined to exact revenge on the object of your years long ire...stop ignoring the real crimes and criminals

you mean the doctored transcript that left out things?

Saying "what a Patriot" to imply Schiff is not a Patriot is as scummy as Ingrahm. Do the Reps. have no bottom?

PaulS

10-31-2019, 07:41 AM

Liberal fool
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Dumb irrelevant human.

scottw

10-31-2019, 07:46 AM

you mean the doctored transcript that left out things?

Saying "what a Patriot" to imply Schiff is not a Patriot is as scummy as Ingrahm. Do the Reps. have no bottom?

Schiff should be in jail....

PaulS

10-31-2019, 07:49 AM

Schiff should be in jail....

SD should be in jail.

RIROCKHOUND

10-31-2019, 07:50 AM

you mean the doctored transcript that left out things?

Saying "what a Patriot" to imply Schiff is not a Patriot is as scummy as Ingrahm. Do the Reps. have no bottom?

No, no, no, clearly Vindman is lying. :deadhorse:

scottw

10-31-2019, 07:56 AM

:rotflmao:SD should be in jail.

scottw

10-31-2019, 07:59 AM

No, no, no, clearly Vindman is lying. :deadhorse:

try to pay attention to what is REALLY going on :bl:

RIROCKHOUND

10-31-2019, 08:04 AM

try to pay attention to what is REALLY going on :bl:

Enlighten us, beyond Vindman stating the transcript is doctored, what is 'really going on'

scottw

10-31-2019, 08:16 AM

Enlighten us, beyond Vindman stating the transcript is doctored, what is 'really going on'

this is a democrat concoction just like russian collusion and the circus of the Kavanaugh hearings...pretty sinister and sad how low they will stoop

https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2019/10/30/whistleblower_exposed_close_to_biden_brennan_dnc_o ppo_researcher_120996.html

Eric Ciaramella — Fearing their anonymous witness could be exposed, Democrats this week blocked Republicans from asking more questions about him and intend to redact his name from all deposition transcripts.

Federal documents reveal that the 33-year-old Ciaramella, a registered Democrat held over from the Obama White House, previously worked with former Vice President Joe Biden and former CIA Director John Brennan, a vocal critic of Trump who helped initiate the Russia “collusion” investigation of the Trump campaign during the 2016 election.

Joe Biden: Invited Ciaramella to state luncheon with Italian premier. Also invited: Brennan, Comey, Clapper.

Further, Ciaramella (pronounced char-a-MEL-ah) left his National Security Council posting in the White House’s West Wing in mid-2017 amid concerns about negative leaks to the media. He has since returned to CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia.

“He was accused of working against Trump and leaking against Trump,” said a former NSC official, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss intelligence matters.

Also, Ciaramella huddled for “guidance” with the staff of House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff, including former colleagues also held over from the Obama era whom Schiff’s office had recently recruited from the NSC. (Schiff is the lead prosecutor in the impeachment inquiry.)

And Ciaramella worked with a Democratic National Committee operative who dug up dirt on the Trump campaign during the 2016 election, inviting her into the White House for meetings, former White House colleagues said. The operative, Alexandra Chalupa, a Ukrainian-American who supported Hillary Clinton, led an effort to link the Republican campaign to the Russian government. “He knows her. He had her in the White House,” said one former co-worker, who requested anonymity to discuss the sensitive matter.

Documents confirm the DNC opposition researcher attended at least one White House meeting with Ciaramella in November 2015. She visited the White House with a number of Ukrainian officials lobbying the Obama administration for aid for Ukraine.

RIROCKHOUND

10-31-2019, 08:22 AM

this is a democrat concoction just like russian collusion and the circus of the Kavanaugh hearings...pretty sinister and sad how low they will stoop

https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2019/10/30/whistleblower_exposed_close_to_biden_brennan_dnc_o ppo_researcher_120996.html

Eric Ciaramella — Fearing their anonymous witness could be exposed, Democrats this week blocked Republicans from asking more questions about him and intend to redact his name from all deposition transcripts.

Federal documents reveal that the 33-year-old Ciaramella, a registered Democrat held over from the Obama White House, previously worked with former Vice President Joe Biden and former CIA Director John Brennan, a vocal critic of Trump who helped initiate the Russia “collusion” investigation of the Trump campaign during the 2016 election.

Joe Biden: Invited Ciaramella to state luncheon with Italian premier. Also invited: Brennan, Comey, Clapper.

Further, Ciaramella (pronounced char-a-MEL-ah) left his National Security Council posting in the White House’s West Wing in mid-2017 amid concerns about negative leaks to the media. He has since returned to CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia.

“He was accused of working against Trump and leaking against Trump,” said a former NSC official, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss intelligence matters.

Also, Ciaramella huddled for “guidance” with the staff of House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff, including former colleagues also held over from the Obama era whom Schiff’s office had recently recruited from the NSC. (Schiff is the lead prosecutor in the impeachment inquiry.)

And Ciaramella worked with a Democratic National Committee operative who dug up dirt on the Trump campaign during the 2016 election, inviting her into the White House for meetings, former White House colleagues said. The operative, Alexandra Chalupa, a Ukrainian-American who supported Hillary Clinton, led an effort to link the Republican campaign to the Russian government. “He knows her. He had her in the White House,” said one former co-worker, who requested anonymity to discuss the sensitive matter.

Documents confirm the DNC opposition researcher attended at least one White House meeting with Ciaramella in November 2015. She visited the White House with a number of Ukrainian officials lobbying the Obama administration for aid for Ukraine.

The identity of the whistleblower DOES NOT change the events that happened. Period.

Is Vindman a credible witness in your mind? How about Bill Taylor?

I'll try to get back to this later, I have to get some work done....

scottw

10-31-2019, 08:24 AM

The identity of the whistleblower DOES NOT change the events that happened. Period.

:huh:

ReelinRod

10-31-2019, 08:36 AM

Saying "what a Patriot" to imply Schiff is not a Patriot is as scummy as Ingrahm. Do the Reps. have no bottom?

My "what a patriot" was referring to the "whistleblower" and his motivation. We were told that he was so concerned for the nation that he was compelled to reveal the call . . . When in fact it is obvious he was just scared that his West Wing sedition would be exposed.

NOTHING is as the Dems portray; it is all a crafted narrative designed to mold opinion rather than inform. Lucky for the nation, they are so fake and inept and stupid, their duplicitousness is always exposed.

scottw

10-31-2019, 08:54 AM

NOTHING is as the Dems portray; it is all a crafted narrative designed to mold opinion rather than inform. Lucky for the nation, they are so fake and inept and stupid, their duplicitousness is always exposed.

yup :bl:

ReelinRod

10-31-2019, 09:34 AM

Is Vindman a credible witness in your mind?

Democrats last week: Tulsi Gabbard is a Russian asset!

Democrats this week: How dare anyone question the loyalty of someone wearing the uniform of our nation!

PaulS

10-31-2019, 10:08 AM

My "what a patriot" was referring to the "whistleblower" and his motivation. We were told that he was so concerned for the nation that he was compelled to reveal the call . . . When in fact it is obvious he was just scared that his West Wing sedition would be exposed.:sleeps:

NOTHING is as the Dems portray; it is all a crafted narrative designed to mold opinion rather than inform. Lucky for the nation, they are so fake and inept and stupid, their duplicitousness is always exposed.

Right - everyone is lying other than Trump :hs: Fake, inept and stupid - are you talking about Trump and his lies in this whole affair?

Sedition - :rotflmao: That is as scummy as questioning people's patriotism. How low will you go?

ReelinRod

10-31-2019, 10:23 AM

Sedition - :rotflmao: That is as scummy as questioning people's patriotism. How low will you go?

How is that not the correct descriptor of the actions of the "whistleblower" when he was working in the White House? He was actively plotting and working to disrupt and derail and destroy from within and implement an outside agenda that stood (stands) in opposition of the sitting President . . .

How low can you go defending and supporting anti-government actions? Elections have consequences and either be on the team or quit; staying on, just to work to disrupt and sabotage is sedition -- it is the very definition of the word.

Sedition is overt conduct, such as speech and organization, that tends toward insurrection against the established order. Sedition often includes subversion of a constitution and incitement of discontent towards, or resistance against established authority.

PaulS

10-31-2019, 10:25 AM

How is that not the correct descriptor of the actions of the "whistleblower" when he was working in the White House? He was actively plotting and working to disrupt and derail and destroy from within and implement an outside agenda that stood (stands) in opposition of the sitting President . . . He was not going to stand for the Pres. trying to get a foreign power to interfere with our election - but you knew that.

How low can you go defending and supporting anti-government actions? [COLOR="red"[/COLOR] Elections have consequences and either be on the team or quit; staying on, just to work to disrupt and sabotage is sedition -- it is the very definition of the word.

Sedition is overt conduct, such as speech and organization, that tends toward insurrection against the established order. Sedition often includes subversion of a constitution and incitement of discontent towards, or resistance against established authority.

You're a joke. There is no need for anyone to waste any time on you.

Pete F.

10-31-2019, 10:28 AM

I’ve long said (w/ others) that the WH and especially the president are astoundingly, even historically, weak in their ability to assert executive power to control what happens within the administration. The Executive branch response to the impeachment inquiry is revealing.
On 10-8, WHC Cipollone said that to avoid “lasting institutional harm on the Executive Branch and lasting damage to the separation of power, Trump *cannot permit his Administration to participate in this partisan inquiry under these circumstances*.”
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6459967/PAC-Letter-10-08-2019.pdf
This was, like many Trumpian threats, empty. In the last few weeks we have seen former and, more amazingly, current officials of the Trump administration appearing before Congress to discuss intimate presidential conversations related to core presidential responsibilities.
Yovanovitch, Kent, Cooper, Taylor, and Sondland, all current executive officials, have testified to the president’s detriment on Ukraine matter and in defiance of WH instructions not to cooperate. I think Vidman defied the WH as well, but cannot confirm that.
This is a really remarkable breakdown of soft and hard presidential power. Congress might have legal authority to access some of this info. It’s a complicated question how much. But the WH isn't even putting up a fight.
The WH is asserting no legal authorities, and does not appear even to be trying to manage what executive officials can and cannot say. The WH has no juice, no tools. The Cipollone letter was pure bluster. In so, so many ways, Trump is a weak, not a strong, president.
Jack Goldsmith
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

ReelinRod

10-31-2019, 10:44 AM

He was not going to stand for the Pres. trying to get a foreign power to interfere with our election - but you knew that.

He is a hearsay reporter of accusations against the president, accusations of something that happened when he was no longer working in the White House.

It's interesting that Vindman admitted to sharing readouts of the call (which he did listen in on) without telling the committee who those people were, or at least stating if he knew those people possessed clearances at a level to read such a document. When questioned by a Republican about this point of interest, Schiff shut down the questioning and ordered Vindman to not answer the question.

Was the "whistleblower" one of the people Vindman gave a readout to? After quitting the White House in 2017, under suspicion of leaking, did the "whistleblower" possess a top secret clearance?

You're a joke. There is no need for anyone to waste any time on you.

At least I can make my posts readable by having the skills to use the quote tag properly. I don't read anything you write that's longer than a couple sentences, so feel free to ignore me to your heart's delight.

Pete F.

10-31-2019, 10:58 AM

When Vindman was asked to go along with a transaction that had nothing to do with policy, but only the president's personal interests, he was taken aback.

Perhaps someone knows of any anti corruption agenda that this administration put forth other than ones that involve his political adversaries
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

PaulS

10-31-2019, 10:59 AM

At least I can make my posts readable by having the skills to use the quote tag properlyThat really hurts me.. I don't read anything you write that's longer than a couple sentences, so feel free to ignore me to your heart's delight.

Even Ingrahm got called out for her scumminess but you can continue bc it looks like it suits you.

ReelinRod

10-31-2019, 11:03 AM

The WH has no juice, no tools. The Cipollone letter was pure bluster. In so, so many ways, Trump is a weak, not a strong, president.

He doesn't need to "be strong", he doesn't need to keep people from testifying. He knows the House Dumbocrats will do what Democrats do and he will wear it as a badge of honor.

What the hell will the Democrats screaming "we impeached him" do, how will their "impeached" screeching and bleating be more damaging than what they are already screeching and bleating about? He is eager to see the 31 vulnerable,Trump won district Democrats act dumb and vote party and then many lose their seats next November.

He doesn't need to play any game that the Democrats recognize as "powerful", he knows he isn't going to be convicted and removed by the Senate and he knows he will emerge stronger than ever in the eyes of sane citizens and he knows most of all, he will win a resounding victory in 2020.

When the IG report and Durham's indictments and Barr's prosecutions send Democrat favorites to prison, it will just make victory all the sweeter.

https://i.postimg.cc/8CW6PZnk/Barr_Mind.jpg

Sea Dangles

10-31-2019, 11:08 AM

Guys like Pete and Paul would rather ignore the truth and continue to believe what the media feeds them. Liberal fools.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

ReelinRod

10-31-2019, 11:21 AM

Even Ingrahm got called out for her scumminess but you can continue bc it looks like it suits you.

"Scumminess" is three pages of the loopyleftie posters here wondering in abject, purposeful, self-imposed ignorance about what Durham is investigating . . . And then, when I exactingly lay out plenty of Obama administration illegality that led directly to the Russian collusion hoax and the fake investigation into it, you ignore it.

Scumminess is ignoring facts you asked for and instead running back under your mommy's apron of another safe, mindless false narrative of the left, only peeking out enough to shake your fist and say orange man bad . . .

So pathetic and so predictable, keep parroting what you think is a cudgel until it is destroyed and then turn and shift to another BS cudgel.

Please, you said I wasn't worth your time, prove it.

PaulS

10-31-2019, 11:24 AM

"Scumminess" is three pages of the loopyleftie posters here wondering in abject ignorance about what Durham is investigating . . . t.

No, scumminess is saying these folks are guilty of sedition.

scottw

10-31-2019, 11:48 AM

No, scumminess is saying these folks are guilty of sedition.

you are sounding very cranky...open your mind and try to be civil

ReelinRod

10-31-2019, 12:00 PM

No, scumminess is saying these folks are guilty of sedition.

Why recoil from the label?

Isn't sedition the very mission statement of embedded Obama holdovers and members of "The Resistance"?

From holdovers in the White House and the State Department and the "intelligence Community" (and even the federal judiciary), "The Resistance" program has been to frustrate and delay and hobble the Trump "agenda" no matter what your actual job description is, or what your official duties are.

You admit as much, you hold the "whistleblower" in high regard because he was (as a analyst working deep in the bowels of Langly) driven to expose the President. What BS!

Same for Vindman, you say, "He was not going to stand for the Pres. trying to get a foreign power to interfere with our election" . . .

Well, first off, that's a characterization entirely driven by politics completely divorced from the fact that the power to drive foreign policy is exclusively the President's and Vindman's job, and the State Department's job is to implement the President's initiatives and agenda, not their own (or the previous administration's agenda).

Stop acting like you don't get this.

PaulS

10-31-2019, 12:05 PM

Why recoil from the label?

Isn't sedition the very mission statement of embedded Obama holdovers and members of "The Resistance"?

From holdovers in the White House and the State Department and the "intelligence Community" (and even the federal judiciary), "The Resistance" program has been to frustrate and delay and hobble the Trump "agenda" no matter what your actual job description is, or what your official duties are.

You admit as much, you hold the "whistleblower" in high regard because he was (as a analyst working deep in the bowels of Langly) driven to expose the President. What BS!So if the President is doing something illegal and someone comes forward w/that info. that is sedition?

Same for Vindman, you say, "He was not going to stand for the Pres. trying to get a foreign power to interfere with our election" . . .

Well, first off, that's a characterization entirely driven by politics completely divorced from the fact that the power to drive foreign policy is exclusively the President's and Vindman's job, and the State Department's job is to implement the President's initiatives and agenda, not their own (or the previous administration's agenda).Coming forward w/info. on the Pres. trying to get a foreign gov. to interfere w/our elections isn't driving foreign policy.

Stop acting like you don't get this.

I do get it and I think it is scummy to call war heroes guilty of sedition.

ReelinRod

10-31-2019, 12:25 PM

I do get it and I think it is scummy to call war heroes guilty of sedition.

While it wouldn't change my opinion of him, I have not heard any reporting that Eric Ciaramella, outed as the "whistleblower" was a war hero . . . My sedition comment was directed to him.

Reading comprehension, it isn't just for conservatives.

scottw

10-31-2019, 12:26 PM

he's a little irrational right now...

PaulS

10-31-2019, 12:54 PM

While it wouldn't change my opinion of him, I have not heard any reporting that Eric Ciaramella, outed as the "whistleblower" was a war hero . . . My sedition comment was directed to him.

Reading comprehension, it isn't just for conservatives.

What is the difference bt the whistleblower and Vindman (or all the others who are coming forward now). Nothing - so I'm guessing that they are as guilty of sedition in your mind.

ReelinRod

10-31-2019, 01:55 PM

What is the difference bt the whistleblower and Vindman (or all the others who are coming forward now). Nothing - so I'm guessing that they are as guilty of sedition in your mind.

That you distort, misrepresent and mischaracterize what was actually said and find it so easy to mistakenly assign a mind-set / belief to another person, explains completely why you are what you are and why you do what you do.

PaulS

10-31-2019, 02:04 PM

That you distort, misrepresent and mischaracterize what was actually said and find it so easy to mistakenly assign a mind-set / belief to another person, explains completely why you are what you are and why you do what you do.

I thank God I am who I am and not you.

Sedition = scummy.

scottw

10-31-2019, 02:27 PM

That you distort, misrepresent and mischaracterize what was actually said and find it so easy to mistakenly assign a mind-set / belief to another person,

.

they do that a lot here...

Sea Dangles

10-31-2019, 03:31 PM

I thank God I am who I am and not you.

Sedition = scummy.

This folks, is the face of the Democratic Party.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

ReelinRod

10-31-2019, 04:08 PM

No more proof is needed that they exist within an information bubble that they rigidly maintain. They find it impossible to reply in the context of what they quote or even make any attempt to actually rebut it.

My use of "sedition" was specifically assigned to a person who uses his position to purposefully disrupt and sabotage the administration he works for.

I did not assign or associate that term with anyone but the whistleleaker and the last posts saying I did, (or that was what was in my mind), are only the pitiful mutterings of a useless leftist partisan who can only misrepresent and lie.

PaulS

10-31-2019, 04:46 PM

The whistleblower knew what Trump did was wrong and went up the chain of command to inform people of it. His actions where not sedition and to call him that is dishonest and scummy.

Embrace your scumminess.

PaulS

10-31-2019, 04:48 PM

This folks, is the face of the Democratic Party.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Are your constant childish insults that show no intelligence the face of the Repub. party.

scottw

10-31-2019, 05:34 PM

paul is on a roll....good grief...talk about struggling with reality

PaulS

10-31-2019, 05:55 PM

paul is on a roll....good grief...talk about struggling with reality

So you agree that it was sedition because that is so beyond the pale that I haven't seen anyone else stupe that low
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

scottw

10-31-2019, 06:02 PM

So you agree that it was sedition?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I think, based on what I know about him, it was his goal to undermine this president in any possible way.... I believe he was part of a coordinated effort to undermine this president which has been ongoing since his election, you'd have to be incredibly blind not to see it.....so by definition and with the help of Schiff...yes...this is as poorly executed as the Kavanaugh hearings debacle and embarrassment and the democrats will again get bit in the butt

PaulS

10-31-2019, 06:29 PM

I think, based on what I know about him it was his goal to undermine this president in any possible way.... I believe he was part of a coordinated effort to undermine this president which has been ongoing since his election, you'd have to be incredibly blind not to see it.....so by definition and with the help of Schiff...yes...this is as poorly executed as the Kavanaugh hearings debacle and embarrassment and the democrats will again bet bit in the butt

so what do you know about him (both the WB and Vidman) that implies it was their goal to undermine the president? And what was the coordinated effort? Why does the transcript not accurately reflect what Trump said if the call was perfect. Why was the tape of the call moved to lessen the amount of people who can listen to it.?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

scottw

10-31-2019, 07:23 PM

so what do you know about him (both the WB and Vidman) that implies it was their goal to undermine the president? And what was the coordinated effort? Why does the transcript not accurately reflect what Trump said if the call was perfect. Why was the tape of the call moved to lessen the amount of people who can listen to it.?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

you are having a tough day huh?...go trick or treating and get some free candy

spence

10-31-2019, 08:03 PM

you are having a tough day huh?...go trick or treating and get some free candy
It's a great question. You really don't know much about the whistle blower at all. The IG said he was credible. We've seen now about a dozen career and well respected members of the Govt validate not just the whistle blower but validate the bigger story of a shadow conspiracy involving multiple members of Trump's inner circle to shake down a foreign government to influence the 2020 election. Oh, and lie about all of it.

If this isn't impeachable nothing is, and the GOP is freaking out.

scottw

10-31-2019, 08:40 PM

It's a great question. You really don't know much about the whistle blower at all. The IG said he was credible. We've seen now about a dozen career and well respected members of the Govt validate not just the whistle blower but validate the bigger story of a shadow conspiracy involving multiple members of Trump's inner circle to shake down a foreign government to influence the 2020 election. Oh, and lie about all of it.

If this isn't impeachable nothing is, and the GOP is freaking out.

This is hilarious. I love that you’ve found your sense of humor
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

ReelinRod

11-01-2019, 12:47 AM

The timing of the Durham administrative investigation moving to a criminal one has been questioned given the progress of the impeachment proceedings.

I've been reading what I think is the reason . . .

A newer FISA court ruling has come out, just declassified on October 8th. It's not unlike the one I referenced earlier in the thread but this one examines even greater DOJ/FBI abuse of the NSA databases in a more recent time period -- after the election.

Hmmmmmm.

This ruling by the FISA court shows that officials within DOJ and FBI are/were on a continuum. The illicit McCabe, Comey, Priestap, Strzok, Page, Baker “small group” activity in 2016 I posted about earlier, didn’t stop after the election but rather continued and expanded with the Mueller / Weissmann investigation (tens of thousands more illegal, 4th Amendment violating searches).

There isn't much in the MSM about this (of course). The Wall Street Journal had an article (https://www.wsj.com/articles/fbis-use-of-foreign-surveillance-tool-violated-americans-privacy-rights-court-found-11570559882), (paywall though), it is mirror published (free) on the Hill's website (https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/464880-court-rules-fbi-surveillance-violated-americans-rights).

So my take is that Barr and Durham were already investigating the 2016 abuses and unmasking and White House PDB involvement but with the declassification and public release of this ruling, they wanted to get subpoenas issued for investigative documents and for many personnel associated with the Special Counsel / Mueller investigation.

Explains why the impeachment timetable got goosed. Things are going to get really nasty.

Link to the ruling below . . . NOTE this is on the DNI's website . . . proceed at your own risk -- hope you don't mind being on a list ;).

FISC’s October 2018 Opinion (https://www.intelligence.gov/assets/documents/702%20Documents/declassified/2018_Cert_FISC_Opin_18Oct18.pdf)

Pete F.

11-01-2019, 08:08 AM

I think someone has discovered bureaucracy and thinks it should be perfect.
All you need to do is get involved with government a little bit and you'll figure out that the red tape is not a single line.
More like the worst backlash you've ever had.
Politicians successfully navigate it, but.......
Trump doesn't know how to cast.

PaulS

11-01-2019, 08:46 AM

This is hilarious. I love that you’ve found your sense of humor
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

You've been hanging out next to SD too long and he is starting to turn your brain to mush.

ReelinRod

11-21-2019, 10:34 PM

Seems like a strategic leak today coming out of the investigation that nobody knows what its about, and if they do it's just right-wing conspiracy theories.

The 500 page IG report reporting on nothing is going to be released on December 9 and Horowitz himself going to bore everyone with his vacation stories when he testifies in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee on December 11.

Back to the leak, for now it is just very top line, no real details other than an FBI agent working on the Carter Page FISA warrant has admitted to altering a document vital to the warrant application.

Interesting that the "news" outlet that has "broken" the story is CNN . . . Usually DOJ leaks go to the Washington Post or NY Times.

Of course CNN is lousy with former Obama officials, some of whom are chest-deep themselves in the illegal FISA warrants like Clapper and McCabe, Comey spokesman Josh Campbell and former FBI chief legal counsel, James Baker . . . All now work for CNN.

No doubt it came from one of them.

Better get your hipboots on, there's gonna be some big waves of nothing coming ashore soon.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/21/politics/fbi-fisa-russia-investigation/index.html

Pete F.

11-22-2019, 07:55 AM

ReelinRod

11-22-2019, 09:05 AM

It’s CNN and the rest of the deep state, obviously

John Durham accepted disinformation from a Kremlin cutout. His investigation is tainted and not legitimate.
Stephan Roh, who i’m going to call Mifsud’s handler although he’s officially his lawyer, gave Durham an affidavit allegedly from Mifsud. Roh has worked for Russian oligarchs. Mother in law worked alongside KGB.
He was working for a Russian government contractor in 2016 and has Moscow offices. That Durham accepted his information delegitimizes the whole investigation.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

That's some top-level yarn spinning there. As if the Durham investigation hinges on an affidavit from Misfud. Why even bring Misfud up? My post above is about the Carter Page FISA warrant that was based on the Steele dossier . . . Misfud was an operative of Italian Intelligence Services working at the behest of our CIA to set-up / dirty-up Papadopoulos.

I do find your reasoning above interesting because we can run a simple experiment; will you consistently apply the same standard you have established above (that a single tainted affidavit de-legitimizes an entire operation) to grade Operation Crossfire Hurricane?

When the entire foundation for the Trump / Russia investigation is proven illegitimate because of a series of false / misrepresented affidavits leading to illegally obtained FISA warrants combined with the injection of Russian disinformation (Steele dossier) into all levels of the FBI, will you condemn as illegitimate, the entire Trump / Russia investigation, including the Mueller investigation?

We will see.

.

Pete F.

11-22-2019, 09:22 AM

There were plenty of reasons to look at the Trump campaign and what he has done that benefits Putin warrants more scrutiny, though after listening to Sondland I am more apt to think it is just due to incompetence and Floridaman's failure to educate himself.

Here are some reasons why the investigation was warranted.

First, there were multiple, separate warnings from allied intelligence agencies to U.S. officials about Russia’s relationship with the Trump campaign. Beginning in late 2015 and going at least through the summer of 2016, the United Kingdom, Germany, Estonia, Poland, the Netherlands and France all informed U.S. officials about interactions between Trump associates and Russians.

Second, an alarming number of figures known to U.S. law enforcement to have Russian links joined the Trump campaign in rapid succession. Michael Flynn joined the campaign as Trump’s national security advisor in February 2016, just two months after he was paid $45,000 to speak at an RT gala in Moscow where he sat next to Russian President Vladimir Putin. Considering Flynn was the former director of the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), this behavior surely would have caught the U.S. Intelligence Community’s attention, especially once he joined the campaign. Carter Page, who years earlier had allegedly been recruited by Russian spies in New York and interviewed by the FBI about it, joined the campaign as a foreign policy aide in March 2016. Paul Manafort, who would eventually become campaign chairman, joined on March 28, 2016. Manafort had spent years working for pro-Russian Ukrainian oligarchs and had been interviewed by the FBI reportedly about this work in 2013 and 2014.

Third, Trump’s own behavior would have raised red flags for law enforcement and intelligence agencies. During the campaign, Trump was up front about wanting Russia’s help, publicly calling for Russia to hack his opponent even after it was known that Russia was interfering in the election. He was also pursuing a lucrative business deal in Moscow, which he lied to the American people about, claiming he had “nothing to do with Russia” .

Fourth, the 2016 election was being attacked by Russian military officers, and this necessitated an investigation. Public reports of Russia’s hacking of the DNC go back to June 14, 2016, and Wikileaks began releasing the stolen emails from the DNC on July 22, 2016. Trump was even made aware in August, during his first intelligence briefing as the Republican nominee, that Russia would probably try to spy on his campaign, and he and his campaign were advised to contact the FBI about anything suspicious.

Fifth, the so-called “deep state” plot hinged on the idea that launching an investigation into Trump would damage his campaign — but the investigation wasn’t revealed until after Trump had won. FBI Director James Comey publicly revealed the investigation on March 20, 2017, months after Trump had been elected and inaugurated. And it wasn’t until after Trump had fired Comey and invited the Russian foreign minister into the Oval Office to laugh about relieving the pressure of the Russia investigation that the FBI opened another investigation into Trump himself, seeking to determine “whether he had been working on behalf of Russia against American interests.”

With all of this happening in such short order, it would have been unthinkable for the FBI and U.S. intelligence agencies not to have investigated the Trump campaign’s ties to Russia.

scottw

11-22-2019, 09:27 AM

Pete F.

11-22-2019, 09:41 AM

The problem with looking at CIA and other intelligence reports from a law enforcement eye is they are not nearly the same.

Intelligence need not be based on a predicate but instead looks at all available information for possible threats. With this they then look further for evidence of what is going on.

Law enforcement needs a predicate to investigate, i.e. evidence of a crime.

FISA is the bridge between the two that enables law enforcement to go from intelligence to predicate.

It is pretty dangerous territory from a constitutional standpoint but each president, including Floridaman, has continued it since it started.
I hope that they have been presented with serious justification for doing so and considered it carefully.

scottw

11-22-2019, 09:56 AM

open a window in the bunker...get some oxygen to your brain pete

Sea Dangles

11-22-2019, 10:15 AM

America 1 st
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Pete F.

11-22-2019, 11:14 AM

Russia 1 st
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Fixed it for you

Sea Dangles

11-22-2019, 11:20 AM

Your hopes will not be validated.
Trump has turned up the heat in Russia but your agenda prevents you from noticing. Have a drink and go hunting while Trump does the heavy lifting for you.
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Pete F.

11-22-2019, 11:33 AM

Trump has done no permanent damage to Russia
The little people are suffering and neither Putin or Trump care
Baby steps without allies for US vs Giant steps gaining allies in Eastern Europe, Middle East, Africa, Central America and the rest of the world that will be felt for years.

Sea Dangles

11-22-2019, 01:21 PM

If you paid attention to world affairs then you would have a greater understanding.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Pete F.

11-22-2019, 01:36 PM

If you paid attention to world affairs then you would have a greater understanding.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

If you look further than Faux you might figure something out
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ReelinRod

11-22-2019, 02:05 PM

There were plenty of reasons to look at the Trump campaign

>SNIP<

With all of this happening in such short order, it would have been unthinkable for the FBI and U.S. intelligence agencies not to have investigated the Trump campaign’s ties to Russia.

Well, in reading that I can say you are an expert in finding and disseminating disinformation, obfuscation and misrepresentations.

Always remember, the McCabe "small group" cabal desperately needed the Page FISA warrant. They would do (and did) anything to get that application to the FISC.

The Page FISA warrant was never about him, it was to get the FISA "two hop" warrant* for everyone Page was in communication with in the previous 18 months. This illegal legal access to tens of thousands of people was needed to try to assign plausible "legal" footing for the illegal FISA §702(16)(17) searches the small group had been doing going back to 2015.

* "If, for example, a surveillance target has talked to 200 different people in the last 18 months (a low estimate based on our informal sampling), and if each of those 200 people has also called or been called by 200 different people, then a two-hop request would vacuum up records relating to 40,000 people. And it only gets worse if one of the numbers in the first hop belongs to a high-volume caller . . . ."

ACLU, Are "Two Hops" Too Many? (https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/secrecy/are-two-hops-too-many)

Pete F.

11-22-2019, 02:43 PM

Well, in reading that I can say you are an expert in finding and disseminating disinformation, obfuscation and misrepresentations.

Always remember, the McCabe "small group" cabal desperately needed the Page FISA warrant. They would do (and did) anything to get that application to the FISC.

The Page FISA warrant was never about him, it was to get the FISA "two hop" warrant* for everyone Page was in communication with in the previous 18 months. This illegal legal access to tens of thousands of people was needed to try to assign plausible "legal" footing for the illegal FISA §702(16)(17) searches the small group had been doing going back to 2015.

* "If, for example, a surveillance target has talked to 200 different people in the last 18 months (a low estimate based on our informal sampling), and if each of those 200 people has also called or been called by 200 different people, then a two-hop request would vacuum up records relating to 40,000 people. And it only gets worse if one of the numbers in the first hop belongs to a high-volume caller . . . ."

ACLU, Are "Two Hops" Too Many? (https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/secrecy/are-two-hops-too-many)

As I said before

FISA is the bridge between the two that enables law enforcement to go from intelligence to predicate.

It is pretty dangerous territory from a constitutional standpoint but each president, including Floridaman, has continued it since it started.
I hope that they have been presented with serious justification for doing so and considered it carefully.

Sea Dangles

11-22-2019, 03:37 PM

If you look further than Faux you might figure something out
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Ha, I get my news here most of the time. You are so lost in Trump that you can’t keep track of current events.👍🏿🤡
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Pete F.

11-22-2019, 03:52 PM

Ha, I get my news here most of the time. You are so lost in Trump that you can’t keep track of current events.👍🏿🤡
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Here’s some news for you

Within 3 days of China agreeing to provide $500m in loans to an Indonesian theme park that the Trump Org has a deal to license Trump's name to, Trump ordered sanctions be rescinded against a major Chinese telecom company.

But Biden is corrupt?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Sea Dangles

11-22-2019, 04:19 PM

You just made my point
🤡🤡
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

scottw

11-22-2019, 04:39 PM

Ha, I get my news here most of the time.

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

why would you need to go anywhere else...re-Pete provides voluminous content right here...

Sea Dangles

11-22-2019, 10:53 PM

If his wife ever New what he is up to
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wdmso

11-23-2019, 08:38 AM

Sea Dangles

11-23-2019, 08:43 AM

Good enough Wayne.👍🏿
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wdmso

11-23-2019, 08:53 AM

Good enough Wayne.👍🏿
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Cant have it both ways. Sorry
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Pete F.

11-23-2019, 09:06 AM

“The report is also said to conclude that Joseph Mifsud ....was not an F.B.I. informant.”///“No evidence used to open the investigation came from the C.I.A. or from a notorious dossier of claims about Trump-Russia ties compiled by Christopher Steele,”
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Sea Dangles

11-23-2019, 09:09 AM

Cant have it both ways. Sorry
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Not looking for both ways,I said good enough.👍🏿
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Jim in CT

11-23-2019, 12:04 PM

So lets use the Trump defense .. even if the fisa warrants were changed (still dont know what changed) that even with that change .. if they never were charged tried and jailed. Whats the big deal... if its ok to ask a foreign goverment to investigate a us citizen with out evidence. It should be ok for the FBI investigate an american with the same amount of evidence
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Do i have this right? You’re saying that as long as I’m not charged with a crime, it’s no big deal if the FBI knowingly falsifies a warrant to spy on me? That the unjustified suspension of my right to privacy is no big deal, unless I’m indicted? WOW. I mean, wow.

Have you ever even glanced at the constitution?
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Pete F.

11-23-2019, 12:54 PM

A Trumplican worried about the Constitution, as Floridaman repeats Russian conspiracy theories again

Do you recall that time in November 2018 when Nunes warned the white house when he released a memo? Well, He left the next day for Vienna to meet Lev Parnas. Apparently Lev has the goods on several Trumplicans who were involved in digging up dirt.
Quite the cast of clowns you’re supporting
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Jim in CT

11-23-2019, 01:18 PM

Sea Dangles

11-23-2019, 01:22 PM

Instead he produced more fake news
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Jim in CT

11-23-2019, 01:41 PM

A Trumplican worried about the Constitution,
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Earlier today, YOU said it's no big deal for the FBI to knowingly falsify surveillance warrants on US citizens (suspending their constitutionally guaranteed freedoms) as long as they aren't indicted. Then, 5 minutes later, you say it's laughable that I'm concerned about the constitution.

Not having a good day Wayne.

Pete F.

11-23-2019, 03:58 PM

Jim in CT

11-23-2019, 05:24 PM

Who you talking to Jim?
Floridaman ought to worry about his buddies, their starting to turn on him

Colludy Giuliani seems to suggest he has dirt that would prevent TRUMP from turning on him: “I’ve seen things written like ‘he is going to throw me under the bus.’ When they say that, I say ‘he isn’t, but I have insurance.”
Asserts he as a “very good relationship” with Trump.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Giuliani is a sad caricature of what he was, the people who care about him should tell him to stop. I want to remember him for the amazingly competent way he guided NYC through 9/11, not like this.

There, see? I saw someone prominent on my side embarrassing themselves, and I pointed it out. Let's see you try it, I dare you. You can't.

wdmso

11-23-2019, 06:14 PM

Giuliani is a sad caricature of what he was, the people who care about him should tell him to stop. I want to remember him for the amazingly competent way he guided NYC through 9/11, not like this.

There, see? I saw someone prominent on my side embarrassing themselves, and I pointed it out. Let's see you try it, I dare you. You can't.
Embarrassing. wow your righteous..

But rudys not acting at Trumps direction.. ok sure he isn't
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Sea Dangles

11-23-2019, 07:11 PM

Embarrassing. wow your righteous..

But rudys not acting at Trumps direction.. ok sure he isn't
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Just like you are not acting at PeteF’s direction.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Jim in CT

11-23-2019, 07:28 PM

Embarrassing. wow your righteous..

But rudys not acting at Trumps direction.. ok sure he isn't
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

He probably was, I can't deny that. But there's no proof.

Pete F.

11-26-2019, 01:26 PM

Just another story about the great Floridaman associate criming around with Oligarchs, while working gratis for political favors for his clients?

The most corrupt administration ever...........

TheHill.com
Giuliani lobbied DOJ on behalf of wealthy Venezuelan who hosted him during Ukraine meeting: report
BY ZACK BUDRYK - 11/26/19 11:15 AM EST
President Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani lobbied the Department of Justice on behalf of a Venezuelan energy executive after he hosted Giuliani in Madrid, according to The Washington Post.

During the trip to Spain — where Giuliani met with Andriy Yermak, an aide to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, in pursuit of information on former Vice President Joe Biden’s son Hunter — Giuliani met with Alejandro Betancourt Lopez, a previously unidentified client.

Betancourt is an executive with the Venezuelan state-owned oil company, which is the subject of a Justice Department investigation into $1.2 billion in alleged money laundering. He himself has not been charged in the case, but is referred to as an uncharged co-conspirator, according to the Post, citing a person familiar with the matter.

Giuliani first told the Post of the Madrid visit in September, saying he told Yermak, “I was already going to be in Madrid for something else the first weekend in August, so why don’t we just meet there?”

Giuliani has claimed there is no conflict between his work for foreign clients and his representation of the president because he represents Trump pro bono.

“My other clients are paying me for the work I do for them. Nobody is paying me for a single thing I’m doing for Donald J. Trump,” he told the Post earlier this year.

A month after the meeting, Giuliani and several other attorneys for Betancourt met with Brian Benczkowski, head of the Justice Department's Criminal Division, according to the Post, citing people familiar with the meeting.

At the same time, federal prosecutors in Manhattan were investigating two of Giuliani’s associates, Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, and would later indict them on campaign finance charges.

“When Mr. Benczkowski and fraud section lawyers met with Mr. Giuliani, they were not aware of any investigation of Mr. Giuliani’s associates in the Southern District of New York and would not have met with him had they known,” department spokesperson Peter Carr said at the time.

While Giuliani’s representation of Betancourt was not previously disclosed, a former National Security Council official told the House in a closed-door deposition that she had been told Parnas and Fruman had ties to lobbying in Venezuela.

“I was told that by the directors working on the Western Hemisphere. I didn’t have a chance to look into this in any way," she said, according to a transcript. "I was told that the same individuals who had been indicted had been interested at different points in energy investments in Venezuela and that this was quite well-known."

Giuliani texted the Post: “This is attorney client privilege so I will withstand whatever malicious lies or spin you put on it.”

The Hill has reached out to Giuliani for comment.