Stewart: "I would now feel compelled to ask you, Madam Ambassador, as you sit here before us, very simply and directly, do you have any information regarding the president of the United States accepting any bribes?"

Yovanovitch: "No."

Stewart: "Do you have any information regarding any criminal activity that the president of the United States has been involved with at all?"

Yovanovitch: "No."

This was like a scene from 'My Cousin Vinny', after Joe Pesci got on a roll.

The last ambassador testified about "what he heard" from someone else, this lady was there, I presume, merely because she dislikes Trump. That's all she had to offer.

The democrats are taking a real gamble here. This could easily help Trump, if people conclude that this is an illegitimate sham drummed up because even the democrats know they have little chance of any of their freaks candidates beating Trump in a fair election.


Are we ever going to see any actual evidence?

Clearly you dont understand how investigations work..

She wasn't their to provide that information, and no one yet who has testified have stated they have any suggestions whats criminal .. its not their place.... they just provide time line and experience

Beacause it not a criminal case . But Republicans keep insists some how a criminal act is required for impeachment... to the gullible base...
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Clearly you dont understand how investigations work..

She wasn't their to provide that information, and no one yet who has testified have stated they have any suggestions whats criminal .. its not their place.... they just provide time line and experience

Beacause it not a criminal case . But Republicans keep insists some how a criminal act is required for impeachment... to the gullible base...
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What was she there to do? Tell us he's a sexist because he fired her?

"it not a criminal case"

Doesn't he need to be found guilty of high crimes or misdemeanors?

Or can you just admit that it's all about the fact that they don't like him?

What was she there to do?

whine and share her feelings like balsey ford

What was she there to do? Tell us he's a sexist because he fired her?

"it not a criminal case"

Doesn't he need to be found guilty of high crimes or misdemeanors?

Or can you just admit that it's all about the fact that they don't like him?
Keep you head in the sand. They dont like him defense is lame and tired

You need to watch more law and order..

If you cant figure out why she was questioned.
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Yea gutted, I guess that’s why she got a standing ovation Jim.

One of the biggest political scandals in American history.
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Yea gutted, I guess that’s why she got a standing ovation Jim.

One of the biggest political scandals in American history.
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What was she there to establish? That Trump is mean because he fired her? Presidents don't do that all the time with US attorneys and ambassadors, other appointed positions? In the executive branch, only the president is elected, everyone else comes and goes when administrations change. But it's only mean when Republicans do it. I think Clinton fired all 50 US attoneys (is that right?) and put his own people in.

Keep you head in the sand. They dont like him defense is lame and tired

You need to watch more law and order..

If you cant figure out why she was questioned.
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Can you tell me why she was there? What was the point of her testimony?

Trump is mean because he fired her? Presidents don't do that all the time with US attorneys and ambassadors, other appointed positions? In the executive branch, only the president is elected, everyone else comes and goes when administrations change. But it's only mean when Republicans do it. I think Clinton fired all 50 US attoneys (is that right?) and put his own people in.

Obama fired every GW Bush appointed ambassador

Yea gutted, I guess that’s why she got a standing ovation Jim.

One of the biggest political scandals in American history.
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this is a joke

this is a joke

Yup. But he needs it to be seen as a scandal, because he cannot handle the alternative, that he could get re elected. How long will he go into exile if Trump wins again?

How long will he go into exile if Trump wins again?



could be devastating :kewl:

What was she there to establish? That Trump is mean because he fired her? Presidents don't do that all the time with US attorneys and ambassadors, other appointed positions? In the executive branch, only the president is elected, everyone else comes and goes when administrations change. But it's only mean when Republicans do it. I think Clinton fired all 50 US attoneys (is that right?) and put his own people in.
That Giuliani was secretly conspiring with Ukrainians running a smear campaign against her to give Trump cover for removal so she couldn't block his corrupt attempts to get investigations into the Bidens and Russian hacking at the expense of US security and solely to help Trump's reelection campaign.

And her testimony was so compelling she got a standing ovation.

That's not a conspiracy theory Jim, it's all laid out as bare as can be in the testimony of highly regarded non-partisan bureaucrats...and there's a lot more to come.

That Giuliani was secretly conspiring with Ukrainians running a smear campaign against her to give Trump cover for removal so she couldn't block his corrupt attempts to get investigations into the Bidens and Russian hacking at the expense of US security and solely to help Trump's reelection campaign.

And her testimony was so compelling she got a standing ovation. from dummies

That's not a conspiracy theory Jim, it's all laid out as bare as can be in the testimony of highly regarded non-partisan :rotf3::rotf3::rotf3:bureaucrats.

work of fiction...nice job though

That Giuliani was secretly conspiring with Ukrainians running a smear campaign against her to give Trump cover for removal so she couldn't block his corrupt attempts to get investigations into the Bidens and Russian hacking at the expense of US security and solely to help Trump's reelection campaign.

And her testimony was so compelling she got a standing ovation.

That's not a conspiracy theory Jim, it's all laid out as bare as can be in the testimony of highly regarded non-partisan bureaucrats...and there's a lot more to come.

"running a smear campaign against her to give Trump cover for removal"

But he doesn't NEED cover for her removal, everyone in the executive branch serves at his pleasure. It's common for new presidents to come in, clean house, and put their own people in. He doesn't need just cause.

She also made mutually exclusive statements about when she first heard about what the Bidens were doing there, one minute she claimed she had no knowledge of Hunter working there until Trump was POTUS, later on she testified that the Obama administration briefed her on what Hunter was doing there. What ese is she wrong or lying about?

"And her testimony was so compelling she got a standing ovation."

Big whoop, your side gives standing ovations to convicted rapist Roman Polanski. Anyone who is a self-perceived victim gets a standing ovation.

You're very impressed by standing ovations I see.

"and there's a lot more to come"

I hope so for your side, there hasn't been anything substantial yet.

work of fiction...nice job though

Question, if as you say this is all fiction, where are those people to state so UNDER oath, none of this happened. No need to answer it is a rhetorical question.
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Question, if as you say this is all fiction, where are those people to state so UNDER oath, none of this happened. No need to answer it is a rhetorical question.
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Oh you mean those people Trump won't let testify because there's nothing to hide?

Question, if as you say this is all fiction, where are those people to state so UNDER oath, none of this happened. No need to answer it is a rhetorical question.
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This is exactly the turning of justice upside down that has been happening ever since the Trump/Russian conspiracy hoax--reversing the accepted presumption of innocence which puts the burden of proof on the demonstration of guilt into requiring the proof of innocence wile presuming guilt.

This as you know is not a criminal court room, so the political case is being made for his abuse of power, potential bribery and likely an effort to cover it up. The other side, other than some true patriots, has refused to come in to make their case. Why no effort to do so, are you really hanging your hat on the argument, you have all assumed I’m guilty so why plead my case. Lame excuse and it’s far more likely, that if under oath, even more damaging evidence and complicity comes out.
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This as you know is not a criminal court room, so the political case is being concocted....

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fixed it

All these career diplomats have conspired with the evil dems to concoct this impeachment inquiry, boy the conspiracy nuts have broken out of the looney bin, lock your doors and windows🤡🤡🤡🤡
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All these career swamp hacks have conspired with the evil dems to concoct this impeachment inquiry based on third and forth hand information, boy the conspiracy nuts have broken out of the looney bin, lock your doors and windows🤡🤡🤡🤡
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you can never put anything past the dirty democrats they, are a slippery and remarkably dishonest and shameless bunch...think about it...schif is sitting in judgment of others...that's pretty screwed up...that's like satan standing at the pearly gates deciding who is good enough to enter, I wouldn't cooperate either..plus...the longer this goes the better it is for trump and the dumber and more pathetic the democraps look...keep impeaching baby....maybe try to locate some more convincing actors though and give them better scripts to read:read:

They consistently produce garbage and it is starting to give off an odor.
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This as you know is not a criminal court room, so the political case is being made for his abuse of power, potential bribery and likely an effort to cover it up. The other side, other than some true patriots, has refused to come in to make their case. Why no effort to do so, are you really hanging your hat on the argument, you have all assumed I’m guilty so why plead my case. Lame excuse and it’s far more likely, that if under oath, even more damaging evidence and complicity comes out.
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"The other side" can't just walk in. They either have to be invited by Schiff, or allowed in by him. He is not going to let someone from the "other side" come in if they have exculpatory testimony.

The other side will get its chance in the Senate trial. And there, the burden of proof will be on the accusers.

All these career diplomats have conspired with the evil dems to concoct this impeachment inquiry, boy the conspiracy nuts have broken out of the looney bin, lock your doors and windows��������
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The conspiracy nuts who created the Trump/Russia conspiracy hoax concocted an even more tangled web than this one. If you don't think it can be done, when a more sophisticated one was done right before your eyes, then maybe you're the looney one.

Well I guess in a month or two we will all know who is crazy.
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"The other side" can't just walk in. They either have to be invited by Schiff, or allowed in by him. He is not going to let someone from the "other side" come in if they have exculpatory testimony.

The other side will get its chance in the Senate trial. And there, the burden of proof will be on the accusers.

They got the invite, they are called subpoena and had they testified under oath, their testimony would be part of the record.
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The conspiracy nuts who created the Trump/Russia conspiracy hoax concocted an even more tangled web than this one. If you don't think it can be done, when a more sophisticated one was done right before your eyes, then maybe you're the looney one.

Didn’t think you were as drunk on the Trump cocktail as some others, but I guess it’s all party lines, ignore the abuse. Trump isn’t going about running the country any differently than he ran his company, he has no respect for law, truth is as he sees and speaks it and the only thing he cares about is promoting his brand.
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The conspiracy nuts who created the Trump/Russia conspiracy hoax concocted an even more tangled web than this one. If you don't think it can be done, when a more sophisticated one was done right before your eyes, then maybe you're the looney one.
A lot of people serving time for a hoax.
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Morrison said Sondland had repeated contact with Trump and believed he had a mandate from the president to work on a second channel involving Rudy Giuliani, president Trump's personal attorney, outside the normal interagency process pressing for the investigation. But Morrison also raised several questions about whether Trump, himself, did anything wrong.

Republican only read he raised questions whether Trump did anything wrong . (,so he didn't) they do the same with climate and taxes and healthcare.. they find the needle in the haystack. And present it as undeniable truth.

its the judicial committee will present charges if any to the Senate .. seems people think this is the impeachment Trial ..
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A lot of people serving time for a hoax.
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i have no issue with manafort and stone being convicted. but was anyone convicted of election tampering? or were the charges more like tax evasion, perjury, interfering with the investigation?

is there any evidence that anything that happened overseas had
any meaningful impact on the election?

let’s look at his taxes again!!!

here’s an idea spence. perhaps
the democrats could
nominate someone who has a speck of tiny ability to appeal
to SOMEONE who lives between Hollywood and Manhattan. No one in the field besides Biden has that ability. And the party doesn’t want Biden, not even Obama wants Biden.
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Don’t know why you’d lie to the FBI or tamper with witnesses unless you did something wrong.

Good read for you also.

https://thebulwark.com/trumps-clean-hands-defense/
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Don’t know why you’d lie to the FBI or tamper with witnesses unless you did something wrong.

Good read for you also.

https://thebulwark.com/trumps-clean-hands-defense/
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and the woman who got a standing ovation, why would she lie about being contacted by the DNC about all this?

Most will lie if it suits them. are you only oncerned when republicans do it? The ambassador said she never spoke to the democrats about this situation, we have emails that show otherwise.
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They got the invite, they are called subpoena and had they testified under oath, their testimony would be part of the record.
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Some selected people were "invited," a whole lot of people were not. People that the Repubs wanted to testify were blocked.

Some selected people were "invited," a whole lot of people were not. People that the Repubs wanted to testify were blocked.

Like bidens Son?

Love to hear how you think that witness would provide any relevance ... other than a deflection
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and the woman who got a standing ovation, why would she lie about being contacted by the DNC about all this?

Most will lie if it suits them. are you only oncerned when republicans do it? The ambassador said she never spoke to the democrats about this situation, we have emails that show otherwise.
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You do know the DNC and a Democratic house member or senator are not the same. Correct

Please stop with the conspiracys. Post links and sources. Or just admit he did it. Its easier then being a contortionist.. avoiding whats known and grasping at straws
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Didn’t think you were as drunk on the Trump cocktail as some others, but I guess it’s all party lines, ignore the abuse. Trump isn’t going about running the country any differently than he ran his company, he has no respect for law, truth is as he sees and speaks it and the only thing he cares about is promoting his brand.
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I am sober about the leftist, Progressive continual dismantling of our constitutional republic and incrementally transforming it into a quasi democracy.

It's not about Trump, per se, for me. I am not drinking whatever cocktail you accuse him of serving. He is not the best, nor the worst, to lead us back in the founding direction. He is, with all of his flaws, better, wittingly or unwittingly, at lopping off many of the Progressive appendages of power and influence which have metastasized into our governing structure. And he certainly has outed so called Conservative pretenders.

For those who are actually interested in our real foundational corruption rather than the inevitable surface eruptions of flawed and corrupt politicians, he is a clarifying point of departure from the quickening tack toward despotic government underpinned by the tyranny of a willing and dependent majority.

I am not for a "democracy." I am with the Founders in recognizing that democracies evolve into tyrannical majoritarian rule directed by the few despots who coerce the majority, first by favor catering to human self-interest , then by force, into giving themselves the power to inflict every self-aggrandizing policy they wish. Some think this is good--that a benevolent dictatorship is the best way of securing the well-being of the masses.

The Progressive notion of democracy is, as I implied, "quasi." It uses the method of voting, not to accede to the will of the people, but to subdue them to the will of supposedly wiser and more able experts who will overcome the petty self-interests of individuals and, by their superior knowledge of what is good for all people, create the governing bureaucracy that can, without local impediments, distribute that good to everyone in the most equitable and efficient manor.

Before Trump started wielding his wrecking hammer, we were on the doorstep of that quasi-democracy with its rule by bureaucratic agencies.

It is obvious to many of us, that the constant negative attention being paid to Trump, and the unabated effort to get rid of him, to impeach him before he even had a chance to exercise any presidential power, and continually seeking ways to do so when other ways fail--and in light of him being one of theirs before he ran for the office--that there is something way beyond him as Trump that is behind all these efforts.

So it is not about Trump per se for me. It is about that "way beyond" thing. All of this impeachment nonsense is first a distraction from that thing, and second a maybe-get-lucky effort that gets him out of the way of that ultimate quasi-democracy.

You do know the DNC and a Democratic house member or senator are not the same. Correct

Please stop with the conspiracys. Post links and sources. Or just admit he did it. Its easier then being a contortionist.. avoiding whats known and grasping at straws
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you’re right i misspoke. she got an email
from a democrat staffer, and under oath she said she didn’t respond
to it, and she did.

she also admitted zero knowledge of trump doing anything illegal.

she got a standing ovation because trump fired her. that must make her an innocent victim of his scumbaggery, as opposed to it being beyond common for presidents to replace political appointees from the previous administration. democrat presidents NEVER do that.
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you’re right i misspoke. she got an email
from a democrat staffer, and under oath she said she didn’t respond
to it, and she did.

she also admitted zero knowledge of trump doing anything illegal.

she got a standing ovation because trump fired her. that must make her an innocent victim of his scumbaggery, as opposed to it being beyond common for presidents to replace political appointees from the previous administration. democrat presidents NEVER do that.
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What part of a witness doesn't determine what is or isn't a crime ..

Why do Republicans keep thinking that has any relevance. If the think it was or was not a crime?

I am certain if she said yes she thought it was a crime .. your tune would be different
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I am sober about the leftist, Progressive continual dismantling of our constitutional republic and incrementally transforming it into a quasi democracy.

It's not about Trump, per se, for me. I am not drinking whatever cocktail you accuse him of serving. He is not the best, nor the worst, to lead us back in the founding direction. He is, with all of his flaws, better, wittingly or unwittingly, at lopping off many of the Progressive appendages of power and influence which have metastasized into our governing structure. And he certainly has outed so called Conservative pretenders.

For those who are actually interested in our real foundational corruption rather than the inevitable surface eruptions of flawed and corrupt politicians, he is a clarifying point of departure from the quickening tack toward despotic government underpinned by the tyranny of a willing and dependent majority.

I am not for a "democracy." I am with the Founders in recognizing that democracies evolve into tyrannical majoritarian rule directed by the few despots who coerce the majority, first by favor catering to human self-interest , then by force, into giving themselves the power to inflict every self-aggrandizing policy they wish. Some think this is good--that a benevolent dictatorship is the best way of securing the well-being of the masses.

The Progressive notion of democracy is, as I implied, "quasi." It uses the method of voting, not to accede to the will of the people, but to subdue them to the will of supposedly wiser and more able experts who will overcome the petty self-interests of individuals and, by their superior knowledge of what is good for all people, create the governing bureaucracy that can, without local impediments, distribute that good to everyone in the most equitable and efficient manor.

Before Trump started wielding his wrecking hammer, we were on the doorstep of that quasi-democracy with its rule by bureaucratic agencies.

It is obvious to many of us, that the constant negative attention being paid to Trump, and the unabated effort to get rid of him, to impeach him before he even had a chance to exercise any presidential power, and continually seeking ways to do so when other ways fail--and in light of him being one of theirs before he ran for the office--that there is something way beyond him as Trump that is behind all these efforts.

So it is not about Trump per se for me. It is about that "way beyond" thing. All of this impeachment nonsense is first a distraction from that thing, and second a maybe-get-lucky effort that gets him out of the way of that ultimate quasi-democracy.
If thats not a kool aid driven reply. Of conspiracies mixed with chicken little with a dash of i want a time machine to bring me back to when American was acceptable.. i am not sure what else to call it. A manifesto?
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What part of a witness doesn't determine what is or isn't a crime ..

Why do Republicans keep thinking that has any relevance. If the think it was or was not a crime?

I am certain if she said yes she thought it was a crime .. your tune would be different
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you’re talking gibberish. she was there to play the victim, to say orange man bad because she got fired. but all presidents do that. all of them.
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you’re talking gibberish.

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I keep telling him this.. he doesn't believe me :grins:

If thats not a kool aid driven reply.

It isn't.

Of conspiracies

I pointed out a historical process that has occurred. There is indisputable evidence of what direction and into which system of government that Progressives want to take us. That evidence is far more compelling than what leftist Dems claim is evidence that Trump committed an impeachable offense.

I suppose that, in your typical incoherent ability to perceive and conclude, you could see that as a conspiracy . . . or anything else your distorted brain desires.


mixed with chicken little

No chicken little. If the sky were actually falling, we wouldn't have the chicken little meme. What I referred to is not a fictitious "sky is falling." It is a historical fact.



with a dash of i want a time machine to bring me back to when American was acceptable..

I spoke of past, present, and future, and the directions in which founding notions and Progressives ones take us. I didn't claim a desire to go back to another time. The founding principles are not time dependent. Neither are Progressive ones. We can move forward with either, or with others. I gave my preference and some reasons why.

i am not sure what else to call it. A manifesto?


What you call it is irrelevant since you have not demonstrated an ability to coherently discuss it.

I'm offended by the title of this thread..it's deer season you know....don't you know she got a standing applause for her Oscar winning performance??????

If thats not a kool aid driven reply. Of conspiracies mixed with chicken little with a dash of i want a time machine to bring me back to when American was acceptable.. i am not sure what else to call it. A manifesto?
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you forgot to mention faux news:)

Can you tell me why she was there? What was the point of her testimony?

Quite simply to outline the corruption engendered by the Floridaman administration in Ukraine, which she did quite effectively. Floridaman noticed

In her testimony, Yovanovitch detailed how Giuliani and his associates Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman worked with a corrupt Ukrainian prosecutor to orchestrate a smear campaign against her, oust her from her post as ambassador, and "circumvent official channels" of Ukraine policy. Yovanovitch also testified, "Perhaps it was not surprising that when our anti-corruption efforts got in the way of the desire for profit or power, Ukrainians who preferred to play by the old, corrupt rules sought to remove me. What continues to amaze me is that they found Americans willing to partner with them and, working together, they apparently succeeded in orchestrating the removal of a U.S. ambassador. How could our system fail like this? How is it that foreign corrupt interests could manipulate our government?" While Yovanovitch was testifying, Trump denigrated her on Twitter. When read what the president had written about her, Yovanovitch testified: "It's very intimidating. I can't speak to what the president is trying to do, but the effect is to be intimidating."
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Quite simply to outline the corruption engendered by the Floridaman administration in Ukraine, which she did quite effectively. Floridaman noticed

In her testimony, Yovanovitch detailed how Giuliani and his associates Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman worked with a corrupt Ukrainian prosecutor to orchestrate a smear campaign against her, oust her from her post as ambassador, and "circumvent official channels" of Ukraine policy. Yovanovitch also testified, "Perhaps it was not surprising that when our anti-corruption efforts got in the way of the desire for profit or power, Ukrainians who preferred to play by the old, corrupt rules sought to remove me. What continues to amaze me is that they found Americans willing to partner with them and, working together, they apparently succeeded in orchestrating the removal of a U.S. ambassador. How could our system fail like this? How is it that foreign corrupt interests could manipulate our government?" While Yovanovitch was testifying, Trump denigrated her on Twitter. When read what the president had written about her, Yovanovitch testified: "It's very intimidating. I can't speak to what the president is trying to do, but the effect is to be intimidating."
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thing is, trump didn't need any reason whatsoever to dump her, because that happens all the time
when the administration changes.

so she was a disgruntled former employee, playing the victim card. she also appears to have lied about responding to democrats attempts to reach out to her in this issue. she also explicitly testified to having zero knowledge that trump did
anything illegal.

that’s some smoking gun.
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you’re talking gibberish. she was there to play the victim, to say orange man bad because she got fired. but all presidents do that. all of them.
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????????????? What part don't you understand besides all of it
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????????????? What part don't you understand besides all of it
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little of what you say. it’s incoherent gibberish.

what did she witness that trump
did, which is a high crime or
misdemeanor? Her getting fired by trump, doesn’t qualify. Sorry.
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What you call it is irrelevant since you have not demonstrated an ability to coherently discuss it.

I dont discuss ones over active imagination
Of what America has become.. while not providing base line of when American was acceptable
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little of what you say. it’s incoherent gibberish.

what did she witness that trump
did, which is a high crime or
misdemeanor? Her getting fired by trump, doesn’t qualify. Sorry.
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You present the fact she said it was not a crime..

I clearly explained why its not a witness role to determine if a crime was committed..

Clearly you dont understand thats how it is

Then you added your usual she tried to make Trump look bad?

So if she stated Trump committed a crime you whould have went off about her being bias or never trumper or just hateful... correct
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You present the fact she said it was not a crime..

I clearly explained why its not a witness role to determine if a crime was committed..

Clearly you dont understand thats how it is

Then you added your usual she tried to make Trump look bad?

So if she stated Trump committed a crime you whould have went off about her being bias or never trumper or just hateful... correct
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nothing she testified to, is evidence he committed a crime. there is evidence, however, that she lied under oath. she made contradictory statements about contact with democrats.

firing her, was not an impeachable offense. even being obnoxious to her, isn’t impeachable.
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thing is, trump didn't need any reason whatsoever to dump her, because that happens all the time
when the administration changes.

so she was a disgruntled former employee, playing the victim card. she also appears to have lied about responding to democrats attempts to reach out to her in this issue. she also explicitly testified to having zero knowledge that trump did
anything illegal.

that’s some smoking gun.
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Why do you need a smoking gun?
Floridaman learned plausible deniability from Roy Cohn many years ago. It's why he doesn't think lawyers write anything down. He's done it for years and never been indicted.

I doubt that Sondland, Perry, Guiliani or Volker will go to jail for Floridaman. One of these guys will flip.

As far as the emails that she responded to, I would assume that anyone who has worked at high levels of government for 33 years would have numerous contacts on both sides of the aisle. She had already asked the political appointee in the State Department for an explanation of why she was removed from her post and received no answer. She spoke with people she knew. Do you find that improbable or do you only see the world in a partisan fashion?

Look at a list of Ambassadors ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambassadors_of_the_United_States#Current_U.S._amba ssadors ) and see how many are Career Diplomats. There are many who, as Yovanovitch did, served thru multiple administrations of both parties. In 33 years she worked for administrations of both parties.

I posted the reason people lobbied to have her removed and testimony confirms it. The reason she was called was to testify about the role of the Floridaman administration in Ukraine. Can you refute, with proof, that it was because she worked against corruption in Ukraine?

They are all great men and women, highly respected, great background, distinguished careers UNTIL they cross him or don’t agree with him publicly and in support of anything he has or wants to do; then they all apparently regardless of their service to this country become something else. When Trump turns on you it’s all out smear, denigrate, belittle, name call and it really only shows everyone the true character of this clown.
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I dont discuss ones over active imagination
Of what America has become.. while not providing base line of when American was acceptable


What America has become is a huge arena of discussion. It involves much, much more than its system of government. I was focusing my concern to the narrow but extremely important discussion of the distinction between our founding governmental principles and the Progressive philosophy of government. I believe that would be an easier and more manageable discussion than the voluminous scope of realities which depict what America has become.

Nor can there be a universal opinion that being an American is acceptable. Acceptable to whom? That would be up to the individual having such an opinion. And acceptable in what respect?

If by a baseline you mean a particular year, my over active imagination would guess that, for some, being an American was acceptable when there was first a notion of such a thing. I don't know what that date would be, but am sure that was a long time ago.

When Trump turns on you it’s all out smear, denigrate, belittle, name call and it really only shows everyone the true character of this clown.

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ummm.....have you watched the democraps go after people that they disagree with????

They are all great men and women, highly respected, great background, distinguished careers.

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you say so. do you know how common it is, for
new administrations
to come in and clean hose? the firings are common. the only unique thing about trump, is his idiotic tweets.

clinton and obama sure did it.
only a character flaw when trump
does it.
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you say so. do you know how common it is, for
new administrations
to come in and clean hose? the firings are common. the only unique thing about trump, is his idiotic tweets.
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So you don't see a difference in how every other admin. replaces people with how Trump replaced her?

So you don't see a difference in how every other admin. replaces people with how Trump replaced her?

nope. only to the way he would
have tweeted about it. only in that he’d be juvenile and vulgar about it.

bill clinton, i believe, fired every single us attorney he inherited.
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you say so. do you know how common it is, for
new administrations
to come in and clean hose? the firings are common. the only unique thing about trump, is his idiotic tweets.

clinton and obama sure did it.
only a character flaw when trump
does it.
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That is baloney, cite some evidence of when Career diplomats were cleaned out. I would expect it would be true for Political Appointees (PA)
Career diplomats postings typically last about 3 years.
Here is the list of currently serving ambassadors by appointment date.
It is not the complete list but Floridaman has made numerous appointments of Career diplomats (CD) since being inaugurated.
Others have paid or made donations of millions and become ambassadors.


Malawi List Robert K. Scott CD Lilongwe December 12, 2014
Palau[58] List Amy J. Hyatt CD Koror December 12, 2014
Romania List Hans G. Klemm[62] CD Bucharest August 5, 2015
Eswatini (Swaziland)[34] List Lisa J. Peterson CD Mbabane November 19, 2015
Oman List Marc Jonathan Sievers CD Muscat November 19, 2015
Uganda List Deborah R. Malac CD Kampala November 19, 2015
Antigua and Barbuda[11] List Linda Swartz Taglialatela[12] CD Bridgetown December 9, 2015
Barbados[11] List Linda Swartz Taglialatela[12] CD Bridgetown December 9, 2015
Dominica[11] List Linda Swartz Taglialatela[12] CD Bridgetown December 9, 2015
Grenada[11] List Linda Swartz Taglialatela[12] CD Bridgetown December 9, 2015
Saint Kitts and Nevis[11] List Linda Swartz Taglialatela[12] CD Bridgetown December 9, 2015
Saint Lucia[11] List Linda Swartz Taglialatela[12] CD Bridgetown December 9, 2015
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines[11] List Linda Swartz Taglialatela[12] CD Bridgetown December 9, 2015
Burma (Myanmar)[21] List Scot Marciel CD Rangoon [9] February 9, 2016
Lebanon List Elizabeth Holzhall Richard CD Beirut May 17, 2016
Liberia List Christine A. Elder CD Monrovia May 17, 2016
Marshall Islands List Karen B. Stewart CD Majuro May 17, 2016
Federated States of Micronesia Micronesia List Robert Riley CD Kolonia May 17, 2016
Greece List Geoffrey Pyatt CD Athens [20] July 14, 2016
Kuwait List Lawrence Robert Silverman CD Kuwait City July 14, 2016
Burkina Faso List Andrew Robert Young CD Ouagadougou September 28, 2016
Indonesia List Joseph R. Donovan Jr. CD Jakarta [23] September 28, 2016
Laos List Rena Bitter CD Vientiane September 28, 2016
Philippines[58] List Sung Y. Kim CD Manila [39] September 28, 2016
Malaysia List Kamala Shirin Lakhdhir CD Kuala Lumpur December 9, 2016
Israel List David M. Friedman PA Jerusalem [26] March 23, 2017
Republic of the Congo Congo-Brazzaville List Todd Haskell CD Brazzaville May 18, 2017
Guinea-Bissau[41] List Tulinabo S. Mushingi CD Bissau VPP May 18, 2017
Senegal[41] List Tulinabo S. Mushingi CD Dakar May 18, 2017
China List Terry Branstad PA Beijing [11] May 22, 2017
New Zealand[55] List Scott Brown PA Wellington [36] June 8, 2017
Samoa[55] List Scott Brown PA Matafele Apia June 8, 2017
Algeria List John Desrocher CD Algiers August 3, 2017
Ethiopia List Michael A. Raynor CD Addis Ababa August 3, 2017
Peru List Krishna Urs CD Lima August 3, 2017
Sierra Leone List Maria Brewer CD Freetown August 3, 2017
Costa Rica List Sharon Day PA San José August 3, 2017
Italy[44] List Lewis Eisenberg PA Rome [27] August 3, 2017
Portugal List George Edward Glass PA Lisbon [41] August 3, 2017

nope. only to the way he would
have tweeted about it. only in that he’d be juvenile and vulgar about it.

bill clinton, i believe, fired every single us attorney he inherited.
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Bill could have, I don't know - maybe some other Pres. did also.

So it is as GOS said - smear, denigrate, belittle and name call. The Trump admin. is so inept (and classless) that they couldn't let everyone go bc they couldn't vet everyone and then complain later about the person.

So even thought Trump could get rid of her you don't mind that it could have been bc (as Pete said)?

"In her testimony, Yovanovitch detailed how Giuliani and his associates Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman worked with a corrupt Ukrainian prosecutor to orchestrate a smear campaign against her, oust her from her post as ambassador, and "circumvent official channels" of Ukraine policy. Yovanovitch also testified, "Perhaps it was not surprising that when our anti-corruption efforts got in the way of the desire for profit or power, Ukrainians who preferred to play by the old, corrupt rules sought to remove me. What continues to amaze me is that they found Americans willing to partner with them and, working together, they apparently succeeded in orchestrating the removal of a U.S. ambassador. How could our system fail like this? How is it that foreign corrupt interests could manipulate our government?" While Yovanovitch was testifying, Trump denigrated her on Twitter. When read what the president had written about her, Yovanovitch testified: "It's very intimidating. I can't speak to what the president is trying to do, but the effect is to be intimidating."

You have to realize that Floridaman has every right as President to encourage corruption if he wants to and nobody can complain. It says so, just ask Barr, Jordan, Nunes and Meadows.

Oh, and Jim

Pete, just to be clear. You are saying that it’s “baloney” that new administrations often come
in and replace previous appointees, with their own people?

https://www.infowars.com/clinton-fired-93-us-attorneys-in-one-day-trump-only-46/

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obama fired all of Bush’s politically appointed ambassadors...

https://dailycaller.com/2019/11/15/flashback-obama-fires-bush-ambassadors/

but it’s only problematic when Floridan does it. Right, Pete?

Happens every time
the party of the oval office swaps. no big deal.
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So why was this ambassador not fired at the beginning of Trump's term but rather fired only when Trump and shady Guiliani got involved with the shady Ukrainians? Was it just a coincidence w/the timing that they started pressing Ukraine to investigate Biden?

So why was this ambassador not fired at the beginning of Trump's term but rather fired only when Trump and shady Guiliani got involved with the shady Ukrainians? Was it just a coincidence w/the timing that they started pressing Ukraine to investigate Biden?

two minutes ago you denied that it was common for a
new potus to clean house. now all
if a sudden you’re so knowledgeable, that you know why this one was fired. because she says it was to allow corruption to
occur.

and maybe it’s true. but her accusation, isnt evidence.
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two minutes ago you denied that it was common for a
new potus to clean house. Pls. post where I EVER SAID that?now all
if a sudden you’re so knowledgeable, that you know why this one was fired. because she says it was to allow corruption to
occur.

and maybe it’s true. but her accusation, isnt evidence.
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I said that the circumstances/timing are unusual.

Pls. post where I said what you just accused me of saying.

I said that the circumstances/timing are unusual.

Pls. post where I said what you just accused me of saying.

sorry that was pete.

point stands, her claim that she was fired to make way for
corruption, doesn’t make
it so.

if Trump wanted to
do things his way ( being a bully and a jerk), and she wasn’t on board with that, he can fire her for that. He can fire her for
no reason at all.

if he broke any laws, just show the evidence. why is that so outlandish of a request?

you are ready to convict him
jordan because people
looking for
money, say he knew about it. let’s see if your standard of proof is as easy, when the Durham report comes out.
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So why was this ambassador not fired at the beginning of Trump's term



because her husband Weird Al is a big trump supporter so they gave her the benefit of the doubt till she started misbehaving..plus they were really busy

sorry that was pete.

point stands, her claim that she was fired to make way for
corruption, doesn’t make
it so. So you want to investigate J. Biden w/zero evidence, zero but don't want to investigate her firing/Ukraine with this odd timing?

if Trump wanted to
do things his way ( being a bully and a jerk), and she wasn’t on board with that, he can fire her for that. He can fire her for
no reason at all.no if it is to benefit the shady Guiliani and shady Ukrainians.

if he broke any laws, just show the evidence. why is that so outlandish of a request? Maybe they should have an investigation HMM

you are ready to convict him
jordan because people
looking for
money, say he knew about it. let’s see if your standard of proof is as easy, when the Durham report comes out.
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I'm not ready to convict Jordan. You are ready to let him off the hook when you have 2 people who say he was told about the perv. I've just showed you repeatedly that there is far more evidence of Jordan's knowing then there is that J. Biden did anything corrupt.

obama fired all of Bush’s politically appointed ambassadors...

https://dailycaller.com/2019/11/15/flashback-obama-fires-bush-ambassadors/

but it’s only problematic when Floridan does it. Right, Pete?

Happens every time
the party of the oval office swaps. no big deal.
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Impressive sources Infowars and Daily Caller........

Do you understand the difference between politically appointed and career diplomats?
I posted the list of current ambassadors, all presidents replace the great majority if not all of the prior administrations politically appointed ones. Nobody denies that.
Career diplomats are not politically appointed and she is a career diplomat with 33 years of service. Thirty three years encompasses the tenure of a number of presidents both Republican and Democratic, from Reagan to Floridaman.
She was familiar with the corruption issues and the work to change the political environment in Ukraine that had occurred prior to Floridaman's administration.
Colludy's buddies Parnas and Fruman were as corrupt as they come and wanted her out of the way. The stench from them won't blow away for awhile and it's the same miasma that Floridaman spreads wherever he goes. Seems pretty likely that it will end up with Colludy joining Floridaman's other lawyer in government housing. We'll see how good his insurance is.

Chalupa

I'm not ready to convict Jordan. You are ready to let him off the hook when you have 2 people who say he was told about the perv. I've just showed you repeatedly that there is far more evidence of Jordan's knowing then there is that J. Biden did anything corrupt.

not zero
evidence. tons of
money went to bidens equity firm and to him personally, from countries his dad was involved with.

you sure are afraid of what an investigation would
turn up.
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, from all of the countries his dad was involved with.


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fixed it

Impressive sources Infowars and Daily Caller........

is.

you’re insulting sources that are better informed
than you were. interesting.

i’m not defending the practice of
mass firings, just pointing out that (1) they all do it, and (2) you only care when trump does it.
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not zero
evidence. tons of
money went to bidens equity firm and to him personally, from countries his dad was involved with.

you sure are afraid of what an investigation would
turn up.
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Again I'll ask - should your police chief investigate you for pedophilia? (not that I think you are).

not zero
evidence. tons of
money went to bidens equity firm and to him personally, from countries his dad was involved with.

you sure are afraid of what an investigation would
turn up.
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You mean like this

In the Gulf they joke that Saudi-US relations are run by the crown prince and “the clown prince”. The first, Mohammed bin Salman, is Saudi Arabia’s strongman. The second, Jared Kushner, is Donald Trump’s son-in-law. If it were not for their friendship, relations between the US and the House of Saud might be in serious crisis. But Mr Kushner has an Arab-Israeli peace plan up his sleeve.

In his view Saudi backing will be key to its success. Which means the Saudis can get away with nearly anything — alleged royal-instigated killing, for example — as long as they hold out the prospect of backing Mr Kushner. To say the least, Prince Mohammed has the better of the bargain. Few people give Mr Kushner’s peace plan ironically dubbed “deal of the century” much chance. The epithet “dead on arrival” has become standard even before the plan has arrived.

Or this

Kushner Companies, the real-estate firm owned by the family of White House senior advisor (and presidential son-in-law) Jared Kushner, reportedly sought a $1.15 billion loan from federally-owned lenders Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. According to Bloomberg, the company is seeking those funds to purchase “6,030 apartments across 16 properties in Maryland and Virginia.” Kushner Companies reportedly had more than $500 million in loans from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac at the time Jared Kushner divested from the family business and joined the White House. The new loan could potentially more than double the amount Kushner Companies has in federal loans.

Or this

Kushner’s father – the real estate developer Charles Kushner – met with a top Qatari official to seek financing for a distressed Manhattan office tower. The Qataris declined. One must wonder: did Jared Kushner support a blockade of a US ally as political payback because it would not fund his family’s business?

Or this

ISTANBUL — Behind President Trump’s accommodating attitude toward Turkey is an unusual back channel: a trio of sons-in-law who married into power and now play key roles in connecting Ankara with Washington.

One, Turkey’s finance minister, is the son-in-law of its strongman president and oversees his country’s relationship with the United States.

Another is the son-in-law of a Turkish tycoon and became a business partner to the Trump Organization. Now he advocates for Turkey with the Trump administration.

And the third is Jared Kushner, who as the son-in-law of and senior adviser to Mr. Trump has a vague if expansive foreign policy portfolio.

Or this

In January, The New York Times reported that just before Kushner accompanied his father-in-law on his first presidential visit to Israel last May, his family’s real estate company received a $30 million investment from Menora Mivtachim – an insurer and one of Israel’s largest financial institutions.

Or this

The Guardian reported on an event staged by the Kushner family in China to woo wealthy investors into luxury developments, including One Journal Square, two skyscrapers currently being built in New Jersey, with the prospect of receiving US green cards in return.

Or this

Cadre, a real estate company partly owned by Donald Trump and his adviser Jared Kushner, has received ambiguous foreign funding of $90 million since Kushner’s appointment as Trump’s adviser, reported the Guardian.

According to the newspaper, the funds flowed from Saudi Arabia and other investors through a branch attached to Goldman Sachs in the Cayman Islands, a tax haven known for prioritising corporate secrecy.

Kushner had retained a stake in the company after joining the White House, with an estimated value of about $ 50 million, according to Kushner’s financial disclosure documents.

And then we can look at the boys, if you want.

But you're worried that the Biden kid got 50K a month from being on a board in Ukraine.

You mean like this

In the Gulf they joke that Saudi-US relations are run by the crown prince and “the clown prince”. The first, Mohammed bin Salman, is Saudi Arabia’s strongman. The second, Jared Kushner, is Donald Trump’s son-in-law. If it were not for their friendship, relations between the US and the House of Saud might be in serious crisis. But Mr Kushner has an Arab-Israeli peace plan up his sleeve.

In his view Saudi backing will be key to its success. Which means the Saudis can get away with nearly anything — alleged royal-instigated killing, for example — as long as they hold out the prospect of backing Mr Kushner. To say the least, Prince Mohammed has the better of the bargain. Few people give Mr Kushner’s peace plan ironically dubbed “deal of the century” much chance. The epithet “dead on arrival” has become standard even before the plan has arrived.

Or this

Kushner Companies, the real-estate firm owned by the family of White House senior advisor (and presidential son-in-law) Jared Kushner, reportedly sought a $1.15 billion loan from federally-owned lenders Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. According to Bloomberg, the company is seeking those funds to purchase “6,030 apartments across 16 properties in Maryland and Virginia.” Kushner Companies reportedly had more than $500 million in loans from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac at the time Jared Kushner divested from the family business and joined the White House. The new loan could potentially more than double the amount Kushner Companies has in federal loans.

Or this

Kushner’s father – the real estate developer Charles Kushner – met with a top Qatari official to seek financing for a distressed Manhattan office tower. The Qataris declined. One must wonder: did Jared Kushner support a blockade of a US ally as political payback because it would not fund his family’s business?

Or this

ISTANBUL — Behind President Trump’s accommodating attitude toward Turkey is an unusual back channel: a trio of sons-in-law who married into power and now play key roles in connecting Ankara with Washington.

One, Turkey’s finance minister, is the son-in-law of its strongman president and oversees his country’s relationship with the United States.

Another is the son-in-law of a Turkish tycoon and became a business partner to the Trump Organization. Now he advocates for Turkey with the Trump administration.

And the third is Jared Kushner, who as the son-in-law of and senior adviser to Mr. Trump has a vague if expansive foreign policy portfolio.

Or this

In January, The New York Times reported that just before Kushner accompanied his father-in-law on his first presidential visit to Israel last May, his family’s real estate company received a $30 million investment from Menora Mivtachim – an insurer and one of Israel’s largest financial institutions.

Or this

The Guardian reported on an event staged by the Kushner family in China to woo wealthy investors into luxury developments, including One Journal Square, two skyscrapers currently being built in New Jersey, with the prospect of receiving US green cards in return.

Or this

Cadre, a real estate company partly owned by Donald Trump and his adviser Jared Kushner, has received ambiguous foreign funding of $90 million since Kushner’s appointment as Trump’s adviser, reported the Guardian.

According to the newspaper, the funds flowed from Saudi Arabia and other investors through a branch attached to Goldman Sachs in the Cayman Islands, a tax haven known for prioritising corporate secrecy.

Kushner had retained a stake in the company after joining the White House, with an estimated value of about $ 50 million, according to Kushner’s financial disclosure documents.

And then we can look at the boys, if you want.

But you're worried that the Biden kid got 50K a month from being on a board in Ukraine.

i said all along that the trumps should have divested from all business possibly connected to their service.

Kushner, i believe (?) was a successful businessman before he met ivanka. i think hunter ( dating his dead brothers widow, booted from the navy for snorting coke) has made a living trading on daddy’s record of service.
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you’re insulting sources that are better informed
than you were. interesting.

i’m not defending the practice of
mass firings, just pointing out that (1) they all do it, and (2) you only care when trump does it.
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No Jim, no prior president has removed a sitting career diplomat without cause.

I still have not seen any cause put forth by the administration.

This has nothing to do with political appointees.

Your sources are talking of other political appointees being removed and you are conflating that with Floridaman's Yovanovitch actions.

i said all along that the trumps should have divested from all business possibly connected to their service.

Kushner, i believe (?) was a successful businessman before he met ivanka. i think hunter ( dating his dead brothers widow, booted from the navy for snorting coke) has made a living trading on daddy’s record of service.
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You could start by looking at 666 Fifth Avenue and see how well that worked, then if you are worried about a relatives misdeeds look no further than Kushner's dad. Just ask Chris Christie about him. Kushner's companies have systematically screwed tenants for years, both under Dad and now Jared.

Fake news
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You could start by looking at 666 Fifth Avenue and see how well that worked, then if you are worried about a relatives misdeeds look no further than Kushner's dad. Just ask Chris Christie about him. Kushner's companies have systematically screwed tenants for years, both under Dad and now Jared.

oh my yes, let’s judge business executives by a single failure, rather then their entire track record. i saw tom brady throw an incomplete pass yesterday, can i assume he stinks.

it’s not possible to have anything close to a rational conversation with you. you divide the world
into those who can do no wrong, and those who can do nothing right. it’s literally all you do, attack conservatives and defend
liberals. have you ever posted
anything here, that doesn’t fall
into one of those two categories? ever?
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oh my yes, let’s judge business executives by a single failure, rather then their entire track record. i saw tom brady throw an incomplete pass yesterday, can i assume he stinks.

it’s not possible to have anything close to a rational conversation with you. you divide the world
into those who can do no wrong, and those who can do nothing right. it’s literally all you do, attack conservatives and defend
liberals. have you ever posted
anything here, that doesn’t fall
into one of those two categories? ever?
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Single failure OMG that’s rich (or should I say bankrupt)🤡🤡🤡🤡
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oh my yes, let’s judge business executives by a single failure, rather then their entire track record. i saw tom brady throw an incomplete pass yesterday, can i assume he stinks.


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Would that be any different than your constant criticism of Obama for saying Republicans cling to their guns and bibles or that Hillary used the word deplorable one time?
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Kushner, i believe (?) was a successful businessman before he met ivanka.
Yea, you should read up on his father. Birds of a feather...

oh my yes, let’s judge business executives by a single failure, rather then their entire track record. i saw tom brady throw an incomplete pass yesterday, can i assume he stinks.

it’s not possible to have anything close to a rational conversation with you. you divide the world
into those who can do no wrong, and those who can do nothing right. it’s literally all you do, attack conservatives and defend
liberals. have you ever posted
anything here, that doesn’t fall
into one of those two categories? ever?
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On what basis did you decide Kushner, a lifelong Democrat, is a conservative? He like his father-in-law is purely transactional and there only principles are what benefits them.
You’ll defend anything that aligns with Floridaman and claim anything else is something bad as defined in your infowar addled mind.

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leftist bitter clingers are all over the map....good grief...such and angry unhinged bunch nipping at every ankle