So the local friendly Antifa (that does not exist, thanks Spence) have apparently "appropriated" a sizeable section of Seattle, Gone Full On Lord of the Flies, and have declared it the Capital Hill Autonomous Zone, A/K/A the CHAZ.


There is speak of armed factions and "warlords". If this wasn't so disappointing it might be more comical. Gawd I hope nobody gets killed.



https://www.reddit.com/r/CapHillAutonomousZone/

they've done a FABULOUS job decorating the place.....

also...


"CNN's Angela Rye called for statues of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson to come down Thursday on the network."

"Pelosi wants 11 Confederate statues removed from Capitol"



we should tear down all of our monuments and statues, hell all of our government buildings ....then we could start all over.... make everybody happy

Yep, here’s your Antifa... :rollem:

11:06 pm, Jun. 10, 2020
CHAZ protesters spend the night organizing a concert and movie night

Capitol Hill protesters — or denizens of the new "Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone" — spent another night by the Seattle Police Department's East Precinct listening to speakers, sharing food, dancing and creating colorful street art.

A small concert popped up at one intersection during the night, featuring funk/hip-hop band Marshall Law, a group based in Seattle. A cardboard sign was propped up in front of the band's makeshift stage. It read: "Defund the police, fund the community, free all protesters."

"What we're doing here — it's for a purpose," one of the band members said after the show, according to a livestream of the event.

After Marshall Law wrapped up their performance, it was time for another movie night.

On Tuesday night, the group rolled out a large projector and watched Ava DuVernay's "13th," a documentary that focuses on the racial injustice of the country's criminal justice system. On Wednesday, they screened "Paris is Burning," which features drag queens living in New York City during the mid-to-late 1980s.
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watching movies, eating popcorn and spray painting other people's property...sounds like a great night out on the town

it sounds like they are really having fun...I think I'd just wait and see where this goes....maybe send Discovery Channel in there with some cameras, this would be great reality tv...

"The city government has not developed a strategic response to the takeover of Capitol Hill. According to one Seattle police officer with knowledge of internal deliberations, the city’s “leadership is in chaos” and “the mayor has made the decision to let a mob of 1,000 people dictate public safety policy for a city of 750,000.” The officer said that Chief Best had dispatched high-ranking police officials to the autonomous zone to establish a line of communication, but the officials were immediately sent away by armed paramilitaries at the barricades. “The tide of public opinion is on the side of the activists and they’re pushing the envelope as far as they can,” said the officer. “It’s not hyperbolic to say the endgame is anarchy.”

Politically, the Seattle City Council has already begun to champion the protesters’ demands. Socialist Alternative councilwoman Kshama Sawant declared the takeover a “victory” against “the militarized police force of the political establishment and the capitalist state.” Three councilmembers have signaled support for a 50 percent reduction in the police budget, with additional councilmembers likely to support a similar policy in the coming weeks. Sawant also opened Seattle’s City Hall—which had been closed by the mayor—to protesters, who immediately occupied the building.

The Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone has set a dangerous precedent: armed left-wing activists have asserted their dominance of the streets and established an alternative political authority over a large section of a neighborhood. They have claimed de facto police power over thousands of residents and dozens of businesses—completely outside of the democratic process. In a matter of days, Antifa-affiliated paramilitaries have created a hardened border, established a rudimentary form of government based on principles of intersectional representation, and forcibly removed unfriendly media from the territory."

this is truly awful....no mother should have to worry that her darling child's skull will be crushed by a statue/monument while in the process for defacing and dismantling that statue/monument in the quest for social justice.....there should be a law against statues/monuments....



https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/man-injured-toppling-confederate-statue-virginia-n1229706

they've done a FABULOUS job decorating the place.....

also...


"CNN's Angela Rye called for statues of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson to come down Thursday on the network."

"Pelosi wants 11 Confederate statues removed from Capitol"



we should tear down all of our monuments and statues, hell all of our government buildings ....then we could start all over.... make everybody happy

There should be no Confederate Statues in Washington DC. But when do they come for Washington and Jefferson?

Yep, here’s your Antifa... :rollem:

11:06 pm, Jun. 10, 2020
CHAZ protesters spend the night organizing a concert and movie night

Capitol Hill protesters — or denizens of the new "Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone" — spent another night by the Seattle Police Department's East Precinct listening to speakers, sharing food, dancing and creating colorful street art.

A small concert popped up at one intersection during the night, featuring funk/hip-hop band Marshall Law, a group based in Seattle. A cardboard sign was propped up in front of the band's makeshift stage. It read: "Defund the police, fund the community, free all protesters."

"What we're doing here — it's for a purpose," one of the band members said after the show, according to a livestream of the event.

After Marshall Law wrapped up their performance, it was time for another movie night.

On Tuesday night, the group rolled out a large projector and watched Ava DuVernay's "13th," a documentary that focuses on the racial injustice of the country's criminal justice system. On Wednesday, they screened "Paris is Burning," which features drag queens living in New York City during the mid-to-late 1980s.
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Awwww cute. Bunch of little commies and Democratic Socialists creating little points of order while waiting for vegan meat substitutes and soy deliveries while the PortaPotty company says Eff No we ain't going there.

Meanwhile, what about the people that live in those areas and just want some level of normalcy and fairness.

Meanwhile, what about the people that live in those areas and just want some level of normalcy and fairness.



^^^^^^


ummmmm....."change is hard"....and "this is American democracy".....and apparently their Constitutional rights have been suspended by the mob till further notice

^^^^^^


ummmmm....."change is hard"....and "this is American democracy".....and apparently their Constitutional rights have been suspended by the mob till further notice

Which constitutional rights are being violated?
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#^&#^&#^&#^&ing idiots.... Not one of them were there or choose to remember when first responders rushed into the Towers on 9/11, or any building when lives were at risk, nor the necessary response when the Marathon bomber went on their killing spree... Yep, just defund them. The lefties can scold them into behaving.

Which constitutional rights are being violated?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

really?...

JR - you were right it's coming, way sooner than i thought.

Tweety's trying to keep you scared, it's all he has left to run on.
After a week of trying to "police" the protesters, the decision was made to let them protest and not have police present.
So far it has been trouble free and it won't last long.

President Donald Trump addressed Seattle's protests on Twitter Wednesday evening, calling for Gov. Jay Inslee and Mayor Jenny Durkan to "take back" their city from the "anarchists." If they don't, he threatened, he will.

Durkan tweeted back within the hour: "Make us all safe. Go back to your bunker. #BlackLivesMatter."

Inslee also responded with a tweet saying, "A man who is totally incapable of governing should stay out of Washington state's business. 'Stoop' tweeting."

Tweety's trying to keep you scared, it's all he has left to run on.
After a week of trying to "police" the protesters, the decision was made to let them protest and not have police present.
So far it has been trouble free and it won't last long.

President Donald Trump addressed Seattle's protests on Twitter Wednesday evening, calling for Gov. Jay Inslee and Mayor Jenny Durkan to "take back" their city from the "anarchists." If they don't, he threatened, he will.

Durkan tweeted back within the hour: "Make us all safe. Go back to your bunker. #BlackLivesMatter."

Inslee also responded with a tweet saying, "A man who is totally incapable of governing should stay out of Washington state's business. 'Stoop' tweeting."

Much of this predates "Tweety" , 'course if you read the news, this all started second week of November, 2016.

JR - you were right it's coming, way sooner than i thought.
What, John mischaracterizing things to fit his own paranoia? He’s been doing it for a while.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Yep, here’s your Antifa... :rollem:

11:06 pm, Jun. 10, 2020
CHAZ protesters spend the night organizing a concert and movie night

Capitol Hill protesters — or denizens of the new "Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone" — spent another night by the Seattle Police Department's East Precinct listening to speakers, sharing food, dancing and creating colorful street art.

A small concert popped up at one intersection during the night, featuring funk/hip-hop band Marshall Law, a group based in Seattle. A cardboard sign was propped up in front of the band's makeshift stage. It read: "Defund the police, fund the community, free all protesters."

"What we're doing here — it's for a purpose," one of the band members said after the show, according to a livestream of the event.

After Marshall Law wrapped up their performance, it was time for another movie night.

On Tuesday night, the group rolled out a large projector and watched Ava DuVernay's "13th," a documentary that focuses on the racial injustice of the country's criminal justice system. On Wednesday, they screened "Paris is Burning," which features drag queens living in New York City during the mid-to-late 1980s.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

All fun and games until the utility bills come due, and they shut off water, gas, and electricity.

Then, no movies, no hot meals or showers, phones die, wifi dies. I'm sure they'll all still get along swimmingly though.

Mad Max movies always have a happy ending
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Durkan tweeted back within the hour: "Make us all safe. Go back to your bunker. #BlackLivesMatter."



:rotf3:

And take your bunions with you.

All fun and games until the utility bills come due, and they shut off water, gas, and electricity.

Then, no movies, no hot meals or showers, phones die, wifi dies. I'm sure they'll all still get along swimmingly though.

Mad Max movies always have a happy ending
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

look on the bright side...so far it's mainly woke sanctuary cities tearing themselves down...will be fun to see these mayors and governors begging for federal funds to help clean up the mess

you have to hear the back and forth between the Chicago mayor and the Alderman that was released....unbelievable...the news report cut out the part where the Alderman described what was going on in his neighborhoods

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQCxDbtci2s



should be a class action lawsuit suing the City and it's officials for not protecting their citizens

Much of this predates "Tweety" , 'course if you read the news, this all started second week of November, 2016.

Actually I think it started July 4th 1776 but don't worry, now Tweety is on top of it.

I'm still waiting to see all the antifa arrests or maybe his "S.S." is rounding them up and sending them to GITMO.

Our great National Guard Troops who took care of the area around the White House could hardly believe how easy it was. “A walk in the park”, one said. The protesters, agitators, anarchists (ANTIFA), and others, were handled VERY easily by the Guard, D.C. Police, & S.S. GREAT JOB!

All fun and games until the utility bills come due, and they shut off water, gas, and electricity.

Then, no movies, no hot meals or showers, phones die, wifi dies. I'm sure they'll all still get along swimmingly though.

Mad Max movies always have a happy ending
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There's also business owners saying they are being extorted by civilians with guns, telling them they have to pay a fee to operate in the anarchy zone. And homeowners having to show id to enter their homes.

I'm actually just learning about this story. Hard to believe it's not an SNL skit. The lesson here, is that if a bunch of anarchist babies don't like something, if they hold their breath long enough, the state will surrender?

So can I just not pay my state income tax in CT, with no consequences?

"they shut off water, gas, and electricity"

I'm guessing the city will tell the utility companies to just leave the power on for free. Whatever these idiots want.

There's also business owners saying they are being extorted by civilians with guns, telling them they have to pay a fee to operate in the anarchy zone. And homeowners having to show id to enter their homes.

Link!

pete makes vaild point if antifa was so prominent. Where are the arrest? BARR even sent in DEA agents William Barr’s DOJ gives DEA authority to conduct “covert surveillance” of protesters: its suggested it was an attempt to smear the pot smoking protesters..

Seems Nixon did something similar
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Link!

https://www.foxnews.com/us/seattle-protests-armed-guards-local-businesses-extortion

Why do you ask for a link? If you saw video of this happening, you'd spin and deny anyway

armed guard at the entrance to the "CHAZ" anarchy zone. What could go wrong?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/seattle-protests-armed-guards-local-businesses-extortion

Why do you ask for a link? If you saw video of this happening, you'd spin and deny anyway

shut up...this is just an attempt to smear the peaceful protesters who are donating their valuable time to re-decorate that area of the city...

What Faux news said
“We’ve heard, anecdotally, reports of citizens and businesses being asked to pay a fee to operate within this area. This is the crime of extortion. If anyone has been subjected to this, we need them to call 911,” Assistant Chief of Police Deanna Nollette said on Wednesday.

Meanwhile in the rest of the world
On the streets next to a police precinct in Seattle’s Capitol Hill neighborhood, protesters and officers spent a week locked in a nightly cycle of standoffs, at times ending with clouds of tear gas.

But facing a growing backlash over its dispersal tactics in the aftermath of George Floyd’s death in Minneapolis, the Seattle Police Department this week offered a concession: Officers would abandon their precinct, board up the windows and let the protesters have free rein outside.

In a neighborhood that is the heart of the city’s art and culture — threatened these days as rising tech wealth brings in gentrification — protesters seized the moment. They reversed the barricades to shield the liberated streets and laid claim to several city blocks, now known as the “Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone.”

“This space is now property of the Seattle people,” read a banner on the front entrance of the now-empty police station. The entire area was now a homeland for racial justice — and, depending on the protester one talked to, perhaps something more.

What has emerged is an experiment in life without the police — part street festival, part commune. Hundreds have gathered to hear speeches, poetry and music. On Tuesday night, dozens of people sat in the middle of an intersection to watch “13th,” the Ava DuVernay film about the criminal justice system’s impact on African-Americans. On Wednesday, children made chalk drawings in the middle of the street.

One block had a designated smoking area. Another had a medic station. At the “No Cop Co-op,” people could pick up a free LaCroix sparkling water or a snack. No currency was accepted, but across the street, in a nod to capitalism, a bustling stand was selling $6 hot dogs. It was dealing in U.S. dollars.

At gatherings on Wednesday, protesters held discussions about their priorities, listening to speeches. There was no violence or looting, and the city’s fire chief wandered around the area talking with protesters about their needs and a collaborative path forward.

I'd give it a couple of weeks at best and someday long before Covid-19 it will be gone.

armed guard at the entrance to the "CHAZ" anarchy zone. What could go wrong?
Considering a white nationalist already drove through a crowd there I'd think a little protection would be in order.

Inciting a riot. Hurling a Molotov cocktail. Plotting to sow destruction. Those are some of the most serious charges brought by federal prosecutors against demonstrators at protests across the country in recent weeks.

But despite cries from President Trump and others in his administration, none of those charged with serious federal crimes amid the unrest have been linked so far to the loose collective of anti-fascist activists known as antifa.

A review of the arrests of dozens of people on federal charges reveals no known effort by antifa to perpetrate a coordinated campaign of violence. Some criminal complaints described vague, anti-government political leanings among suspects, but the majority of the violent acts that have taken place at protests have been attributed by federal prosecutors to individuals with no affiliation to any particular group.

Even so, Attorney General William P. Barr has blamed antifa for orchestrating the mass protests, which broke out in cities and towns across the country following the death in police custody of George Floyd. “There is clearly some high degree of organization involved at some of these events and coordinated tactics that we are seeing,” Mr. Barr said. “Some of it relates to antifa, some of it relates to groups that act very much like antifa.”

Mr. Trump has sought to expand and exploit accusations against what he has called the involvement of “radical leftists” in the protests. At one point the president said that antifa would be declared a “terrorist organization,” although it is not a single organization nor does any American law allow using that designation against a domestic group. On Tuesday, the president suggested on Twitter, without providing any evidence, that a 75-year-old Buffalo protester hospitalized after being knocked down by the police, could be “an ANTIFA provocateur.”

Mr. Trump and other Republicans have also sought to raise campaign funds off the unsubstantiated accusations. “Stand with President Trump against antifa!” read a banner advertisement on Mr. Trump’s re-election campaign website this week.

Marjorie Green, a congressional candidate in Georgia, produced a campaign ad showing her armed with an AR-15 military-style rifle and threatening antifa activists. “You won’t burn our churches, loot our businesses or destroy our homes,” she said.

Asked why the myriad criminal complaints do not single out antifa, Mr. Barr said on Fox News this week that preliminary charges do not require linking suspects to a particular group, adding that there was, “a witches’ brew of extremist groups that are trying to exploit this situation on all sides.”

F.B.I. agents and federal prosecutors have pursued charges aggressively against rioters, looters and others accused of wreaking havoc during the demonstrations. Law enforcement officials have relied on a variety of federal statutes to make arrests, including conspiracy to commit arson, starting a riot, civil disorder and possession of a Molotov cocktail.

The most serious case that has emerged in federal court involved three men in Nevada linked to a loose, national network of far-right extremists advocating for the overthrow of the U.S. government. They were arrested on May 30 on charges of trying to foment violence during Black Lives Matter protests.

Given the sheer volume of thousands of arrests nationwide in recent weeks, officials cautioned that many investigations remain in the early stages with investigators still trying to determine affiliations. In addition, state and local court documents are far harder to search comprehensively.

However, interviews with several major local police departments and a review of hundreds of newspaper stories about arrests around the country revealed no evidence of an organized political effort behind the looting and other violence.

“We saw no organized effort of antifa here in Los Angeles,” said Josh Rubenstein, the spokesman for the Los Angeles Police Department.

Asked in an interview about the involvement of antifa or other extremists groups in Minneapolis, Medaria Arradondo, the chief of police, said, “As I sit here today, I have not received any sort of official information identifying any of the groups.”

In the one example where antifa is mentioned, local police in Austin, Texas, said members of the Red Guards, a Maoist organization, were involved in organizing the looting of a Target store. The Red Guards have been associated with antifa protests in Austin in the past, but local activists said they were largely estranged from the group.

While anarchists and anti-fascists openly acknowledged being part of the massive crowds, they call the scale, intensity and durability of the protests far beyond anything that they might dream of organizing. Some tactics used at the protests, like the wearing of all black and the shattering of store windows, are reminiscent of those used by anarchist groups, say those who study such movements.

In Portland, those affiliated with Rose City Antifa said they have supported the continuing protests. But the city’s antifa actions have long involved a wide range of people, some who dress in black apparel and face coverings and others who show up in everyday clothing to decry far-right extremists and police militarization. There has also been various far-left activities in Seattle, including people who have spray-painted anarchist symbols on public property.

Antifa has roots in the Occupy Wall Street protests of a decade ago and the demonstrations against the World Trade Organization in the 1990s. During Mr. Trump’s inauguration, antifa activists marched in Washington vandalizing businesses and at one point setting fire to a limousine.

Over the next several months, its followers disrupted events hosted by right-wing speakers like Ann Coulter and Milo Yiannopoulous. When the far right fought back, organizing its own public protests, anti-fascist activists met them on the streets in what often turned into violent confrontations, culminating in the bloody rally in 2017 in Charlottesville, Va.

Anarchists and others accuse officials of trying to assign blame to extremists rather than accept the idea that millions of Americans from a variety of political backgrounds have been on the streets demanding change. Numerous experts called the participation of extremist organizations overstated, as well.

“A significant number of people in positions of authority are pushing a false narrative about antifa being behind a lot of this activity,” said J.M. Berger, the author of the book “Extremism,” and an authority on militant movements. “These are just unbelievably large protests at a time of great turmoil in this country, and there is surprisingly little violence given the size of this movement.”

In July 2019, Christopher Wray, the F.B.I. director, told the Senate Judiciary Committee that the agency “considers antifa more of an ideology than an organization.”

In Las Vegas, the complaint filed in U.S. District Court said the three suspects called themselves members of the “boogaloo,” which is described as a far-right movement “to signify a coming civil war and/or fall of civilization.”

At an initial protest, the three strapped on bulletproof vests, grabbed their rifles and waded into the crowd, hoping to provoke clashes between protesters and the police, according to court papers. One taunted police officers, yelling in their faces, while a second chided protesters “that peaceful protests don’t accomplish anything and they needed to be violent,” the complaint said.

When that failed, they plotted to blow up an electric substation along the route of the demonstration in the hope that would prompt more violence between police and protesters, according to the complaint. They were arrested after preparing Molotov cocktails from gasoline and lemonade bottles before a march.

Robert M. Drascovich Jr., an attorney for one of the accused, Stephen T. Parshall, 35, said his client denied all the charges.

Individuals associated with the boogaloo movement have been out in force at countless demonstrations in the past few years, clad in their distinctive combat dress and armed with rifles. They often claim that they appear armed in public to underscore their commitment to Second Amendment rights, or to protect local businesses.

But online, boogaloo discussion groups overflow with racist statements and threats to exploit any unrest to spark a race war that will bring about a new government system.

In Denver, police seized a small arsenal including three assault rifles, numerous magazines, several bullet proof vests and other military paraphernalia from the car trunk of a self-professed “boogaloo” adherent headed toward a protest, a man who had previously live-streamed his own support for armed confrontations with police.

After a demonstration in Athens, Ga., on May 31 ended with the National Guard being called in and tear gas fired to clear protesters away from the gates of University of Georgia, Chief Cleveland L. Spruill wrote a lengthy memo spelling out his concerns around extremist involvement in the protests.

Given the volatile mix of protesters, including armed men, he said, he feared a repeat of Charlottesville. Some participants called such fears overblown given the overall peaceful tenor of the protest.

In New York, police briefed reporters on May 31, claiming that radical anarchists from out of state had plotted ahead of the protests by setting up encrypted communications systems, arranging for street medics and collecting bail funds.

Within five days, however, Dermot F. Shea, the city’s police commissioner, acknowledged that most of the hundreds of people arrested at the protests in New York were actually New Yorkers who took advantage of the chaos to commit crimes and were not motivated by political ideology. John Miller, the police official who had briefed reporters, told CNN that most looting in New York had been committed by “regular criminal groups.”

In Austin, Texas, court documents said several members of the Red Guards participated in burglarizing a Target store, including a woman who streamed the event on Facebook Live, encouraging people to come “even if you do not want to loot,” one affidavit said.

Although the court documents identified the Red Guards as part of the city’s anti-fascist umbrella organization, several Austin activists described the group as either defunct or estranged from one another because of their penchant for troubling acts like laying a dead cat on the doorstep of a business involved in a gentrification dispute.

Kit O’Connell, a longtime radical leftist activist and community organizer in Austin, said that shortly after Mr. Trump’s election, the group took part in anti-fascist protests in the city against a local white supremacist group and scuffled separately with Act for America, an anti-Muslim organization.

“They’ve been an influence at the protests but they’re not in charge — no one’s really in charge,” Mr. O’Connell said.

Carl Guthrie, a lawyer for Samuel Miller, one of those charged with burglary, denied that his client had any connection to the Red Guards. He called such accusations “a transparent, incendiary attempt to distract from the problems plaguing our society — systemic racism and state-sponsored murder.”

Experts on extremism said the few suspects arrested with overt political goals fall under the broad category of “accelerationists,” groups that hope to exploit any public unrest to further their own anti-government goals.

Considering a white nationalist already drove through a crowd there I'd think a little protection would be in order.

Which is why we have something called the police. But because a statistically insignificant number of them are bad, and because your side will say or do absolutely anything for political advantage, they have been demonized, convincing simple-minded snowflakes that cops only represent a threat that's best to avoid.

The police is probably the only urban institution in the country that works. And now we're going to minimize that. That'll help blacks.

Nine unarmed blacks were killed by police in all of 2019. Nine. 18 blacks were murdered in Chicago on one recent day, May 31. Twice as many as were killed by cops in a year. Sure, by all means, let's start riots over the miniscule threat, and ignore the much more serious threat, because the serious threat pays no political dividends to you, and that's what this is all about, obviously.

Sorry to tell you but there is a problem with cops and low income or lower caste people

KEITH ELLISON: Well, you know that the police are now and have always been in place to maintain the legal/social order. If that’s a just social order, that’s one thing. If it’s one based on slavery, Jim Crow segregation, capital, and Big Business abusing labor, then the police have always played this role where they are the ones who sort of maintain that social hierarchy.

I grew up in Michigan, and people there have a strong memory about how it was police and policelike forces that put down strikes, how police and parapolice forces were the ones who maintained the racial hierarchy.

When John Lewis, who’s a member of Congress, got arrested for challenging segregation, he was arrested by a police officer, right? So they maintain a legal status quo and a social/cultural order and always have.


It’s important to understand you can’t look at the police in isolation. A lot of times we do that because what they do is so flagrant. I mean, the knee on the neck, right? Or the shooting of [African American youth] Laquan McDonald, where [Chicago Police Officer Jason Van Dyke] wrote in his report that [McDonald] attacked him with a knife, when he was so clearly assassinated on the street. Same thing with Walter Scott [an unarmed African American man killed by a police officer in South Carolina], who was running away and was shot.

The question is, why do these cases so often result in either no charge, no grand jury bill of indictment like in the Mike Brown case [in Ferguson, Mo.], no conviction, hung juries? I mean, we all saw what happened to Philando Castile—live on Facebook—who was shot down by Officer Jeronimo Yanez [in Falcon Heights, Minn.], and yet there was no conviction in that case. It’s just almost impossible to imagine it wouldn’t have resulted in a conviction, but it didn’t. Or what about Freddie Gray? Perfectly healthy, they throw him in that [Baltimore police] van, and he comes out dead, and next thing you know, all these officers are charged, and yet no one is held accountable for the death of Freddie Gray.

There’s got to be some element of complicity and culpability on behalf of the system that sends the officers out there.

Sorry to tell you but there is a problem with cops and low income or lower caste people

.

Yes, there is problem with the police. I didn't see anyone say the police are perfect, therefore I'm not sure what you are responding to. They, like both you and I, are flawed.

Yes, there is a problem. But the data shows with zero ambiguity that problem, is nothing compared to the problem caused by black on black violence in our cities. But, that tiny police problem is seen a politically helpful to democrats, so the media acts as if that's the biggest problem, they get the mob good and worked up, and a few cops get murdered, no big deal. Easier than admitting that (1) urban black on black violence is a far bigger problem, and (2) that liberalism helped cause black on black violence. Can't discuss either of these two things.

You have to start wondering how much liberals despise blacks. Attack the nuclear family, incentivize fatherlessness. Create a permanent underclass by making them addicted to welfare. Oppose school choice (probably my favorite). Put an abortion clinic on every corner of every black neighborhood. Talk in ebonics whenever you are speaking to blacks.

Always the liberals fault.

What is it like to be a black man in America?

"Ernest showed up at my door and I had to address it. I couldn't pretend nothing was going on as we were watching news of the protests and riots upstairs," Brock said.

Skelton's answer shocked her.

"He was very open and willing to share what his life was like, and I'm going to say it really shocked me, because I didn't know that this is a normal black man has to deal with every day," Brock said, tears welling in her eyes.

Skelton told her about the numerous times he claims he's been pulled over by Myrtle Beach police, but said it wasn't for traffic violations.

"I get pulled over because my truck fit the description of a robbery. They question me about the boxes in my car," he said.

He claims the harassment from police has gotten so bad, he doesn't leave the house after dark anymore.

"Soon as I'm 5 minutes from my house, the blue light come on. I pull over and they ask me what I'm doing out this time of night. I'm like, 'dude really. I got a sign on my truck, invoices showing I just got off of work,'" he said.

He said seeing what happened to George Floyd certainly hasn't improved his level of trust with law enforcement, either.

"George Floyd , when I saw that, that could have been me. They could have easily snatched me out of the car," he said.

He went on to tell her about the prejudice he's faced in the workplace, too.

"Me being an African-American, I have 2 degrees, but I can't get a job with two degrees because of my skin color," he said.

This eventually led him to become his own boss and start his own business, Grand Strand Appliance Repair Services.

He said even customers will question his qualifications from time to time.

"I have customers asking me 'are you certified? Do you know what you're doing?' I mean they want a background history," he said.

It was an eye-opening conversation for Brock. She said it was an uncomfortable dialogue to initiate, but a much-needed one.

"Let's not pretend that it doesn't exist. Let's ask the hard questions and be willing and open to see what's under there," Brock said. "It's really about listening with an open mind instead of thinking you know."

She wanted to share what she learned with the world, in the hopes that his story would enlighten others, too.

With his permission, she posted what she learned from him on Facebook.

The post has since gone viral. It's been 'liked' and shared hundreds of thousands of times.

Skelton said people from all around the world have been reaching out to him nonstop, either with messages of sympathy, or stories of similar run-ins with law enforcement.

Even Myrtle Beach City Manager John Pedersen said he saw the post. In an email to ABC 15, he said he found Skelton's allegations "disturbing" and that Myrtle Beach police were investigating.

However, he said so far, they have only found record of one incident with Skelton, and it was related to a traffic incident back in 2014. He said they are continuing to look into the matter.

Skelton said he feels many of his encounters with local police went undocumented, though.

"Plenty of times I get pulled over for no reason, so if I'm getting pulled over for no reason at all, of course they're not going to put that in their record," he said.

Ernest Skelton said he doesn't have high hopes things will change for the black community, but he said when people in positions of privilege, like Caroline Brock, are willing to ask and listen, it's certainly a good start.

"It's about listening and it's about uplifting," Brock said.

Always the liberals fault.

What is it like to be a black man in America?

"Ernest showed up at my door and I had to address it. I couldn't pretend nothing was going on as we were watching news of the protests and riots upstairs," Brock said.

Skelton's answer shocked her.

"He was very open and willing to share what his life was like, and I'm going to say it really shocked me, because I didn't know that this is a normal black man has to deal with every day," Brock said, tears welling in her eyes.

Skelton told her about the numerous times he claims he's been pulled over by Myrtle Beach police, but said it wasn't for traffic violations.

"I get pulled over because my truck fit the description of a robbery. They question me about the boxes in my car," he said.

He claims the harassment from police has gotten so bad, he doesn't leave the house after dark anymore.

"Soon as I'm 5 minutes from my house, the blue light come on. I pull over and they ask me what I'm doing out this time of night. I'm like, 'dude really. I got a sign on my truck, invoices showing I just got off of work,'" he said.

He said seeing what happened to George Floyd certainly hasn't improved his level of trust with law enforcement, either.

"George Floyd , when I saw that, that could have been me. They could have easily snatched me out of the car," he said.

He went on to tell her about the prejudice he's faced in the workplace, too.

"Me being an African-American, I have 2 degrees, but I can't get a job with two degrees because of my skin color," he said.

This eventually led him to become his own boss and start his own business, Grand Strand Appliance Repair Services.

He said even customers will question his qualifications from time to time.

"I have customers asking me 'are you certified? Do you know what you're doing?' I mean they want a background history," he said.

It was an eye-opening conversation for Brock. She said it was an uncomfortable dialogue to initiate, but a much-needed one.

"Let's not pretend that it doesn't exist. Let's ask the hard questions and be willing and open to see what's under there," Brock said. "It's really about listening with an open mind instead of thinking you know."

She wanted to share what she learned with the world, in the hopes that his story would enlighten others, too.

With his permission, she posted what she learned from him on Facebook.

The post has since gone viral. It's been 'liked' and shared hundreds of thousands of times.

Skelton said people from all around the world have been reaching out to him nonstop, either with messages of sympathy, or stories of similar run-ins with law enforcement.

Even Myrtle Beach City Manager John Pedersen said he saw the post. In an email to ABC 15, he said he found Skelton's allegations "disturbing" and that Myrtle Beach police were investigating.

However, he said so far, they have only found record of one incident with Skelton, and it was related to a traffic incident back in 2014. He said they are continuing to look into the matter.

Skelton said he feels many of his encounters with local police went undocumented, though.

"Plenty of times I get pulled over for no reason, so if I'm getting pulled over for no reason at all, of course they're not going to put that in their record," he said.

Ernest Skelton said he doesn't have high hopes things will change for the black community, but he said when people in positions of privilege, like Caroline Brock, are willing to ask and listen, it's certainly a good start.

"It's about listening and it's about uplifting," Brock said.

So in your last 2 posts, you implied that people think police are flawless, which no one said. Then you said "it's always the liberals fault", which no one ever said. Your last two posts are responding to points which no one made.

I said two things, and I'd like for you to tell me which of these is incorrect, and why.

1. Urban violence is way more destructive to black lives, than the police. Not even close.

2. Stupid liberal policies (attacking the nuclear family, incentivizing fatherlessness, making people addicted to welfare, opposing school choice) are making urban violence worse.

Try your very best, not to respond by saying "so Jim wants to kill everybody..." Try responding to what I actually said, not to the voices in your head.

"Me being an African-American, I have 2 degrees, but I can't get a job with two degrees because of my skin color," he said.

.

If that were true, if there were ANY evidence of that, a team of lawyers would represent this person for free in a massive lawsuit.

Anyone can post anything on the internet Pete. This proves nothing.

armed guard at the entrance to the "CHAZ" anarchy zone. What could go wrong?

So armed protester at State houses good

Armed liberal protester Bad

cant have both ways

What are his degrees in, would be my first question?
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Which is why we have something called the police. But because a statistically insignificant number of them are bad, and because your side will say or do absolutely anything for political advantage, they have been demonized, convincing simple-minded snowflakes that cops only represent a threat that's best to avoid.

The police is probably the only urban institution in the country that works. And now we're going to minimize that. That'll help blacks.

Nine unarmed blacks were killed by police in all of 2019. Nine. 18 blacks were murdered in Chicago on one recent day, May 31. Twice as many as were killed by cops in a year. Sure, by all means, let's start riots over the miniscule threat, and ignore the much more serious threat, because the serious threat pays no political dividends to you, and that's what this is all about, obviously.


Jim your out of touch this comment shows it "miniscule threat" who are you to make that.. are you black do you live that daily with that possibility.. have you lived in that fear

being killed unarmed by the Police is in a different league

Blacks kill black white kill white hispanics kill other hispanics thats how the world works it built into the structures of where we live

being killed by the Police or how police treat the public is Huge ..

the dont tread on me flag isn't just for Trump rallies or 2A protest

it applies to police killing and treatment they represent the Government the authority AKA tyranny

but some here thinks that doesn't apply to police actions

cruel, unreasonable, or arbitrary use of power or control. sound about right ... just because the above actions may be seen as miniscule threat by those with no knee on their neck .. doesn't mean its not a valid sentiment

What, John mischaracterizing things to fit his own paranoia? He’s been doing it for a while.
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First time I think I've ever been called paranoid ; )

No Spence, this is part of the the arc of instability I've discussed with some people over the past decade. The polarization, the problems of the extremes (both sides Wayne), the divide along identity, to increasingly end up in violence. The institutional march through American history to excise 150 and 200 years ago by today's standards. I am marginally OK with *some* Conf Statues being relegated to Museums but it won't stop there. The monuments at Gettysburg will be removed. The monuments for Washington and Jefferson will be removed. Everything will be canceled in a mob mentality, with no eye for history or what it means, for social justice,

Like Nuance, but with Nukes.


Now the little kids have their little Lord of the Flies Island, but with weed and firearms*, what could go wrong.

* Not a problem as long as they are following federal and state regs like the rest of us.

So armed protester at State houses good (didn't break stuff and went home)

Armed liberal protester Bad (broke a lot of stuff and won't leave)





I'm shocked you don't see the difference

The monuments at Gettysburg will be removed. The monuments for Washington and Jefferson will be removed. Everything will be canceled in a mob mentality, with no eye for history or what it means, for social justice



ironically removed by people who idolize Che', Mao and Marx etc...

Jim your out of touch this comment shows it "miniscule threat" who are you to make that.. are you black do you live that daily with that possibility.. have you lived in that fear

being killed unarmed by the Police is in a different league

Blacks kill black white kill white hispanics kill other hispanics thats how the world works it built into the structures of where we live

being killed by the Police or how police treat the public is Huge ..

the dont tread on me flag isn't just for Trump rallies or 2A protest

it applies to police killing and treatment they represent the Government the authority AKA tyranny

but some here thinks that doesn't apply to police actions

cruel, unreasonable, or arbitrary use of power or control. sound about right ... just because the above actions may be seen as miniscule threat by those with no knee on their neck .. doesn't mean its not a valid sentiment

""miniscule threat" who are you to make that"

Let's go really, really slow here.

I don't make it a miniscule threat. The data says it is.

9 unarmed blacks were killed by the police in the whole country in 2019. Nine.

18 blacks were murdered in Chicago (one city) on May 32 (one day).

Are you going to tell us with a straight face, that urban violence isn't a much bigger threat to blacks, than cops? Based on what?

I go where the facts take me. The facts here, couldn't be more clear.

So armed protester at State houses good

Armed liberal protester Bad

cant have both ways

As Scott said, conservatives don't generally riot. It's almost always liberals who do that.

Look at what places look like after the tea party has had a rally, or after the armed guards protesting state houses (which I didn't like for the record, but the fat is there were no issues).Compare that to what it looks like after liberals (occupy wall street, antifa, BLM, these potheads in Seattle).

If you owned a restaurant across from a park, who would you rather see protesting in that park? The tea party, antifa, BLM, or Occupy Wall Street?

Have fun with that one.

9 unarmed blacks were killed by the police in the whole country in 2019. Nine.


That would equate to .0000028% of the US population
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Ph#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&g-A, the PROBLEM was in the MINNEAPOLIS PD, who should have gotten rid of the INDIVIDUAL LEO, who had DOZENS, yes DOZENS of complaints, write ups, incidents, call it what you want. He was a BAD APPLE! Put his azz in a cell and throw the key away. I saw enough on the video. So has the world.... But don't condemn the whole system of LAW ENFORCEMENT... An overhaul and review of each and every force might be in the cards, no doubt. Get rid of the bad guys. Perfect opportunity to out them now, without risking the unwritten rules of the police brotherhood. But defunding???? Come on. The country has gone mad....

That would equate to .0000028% of the US population
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and while one is too many, it’s not an epidemic. it doesn’t even approach the impact of urban violence within the black community. not even close.
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complete madness....this is getting interesting...

Boston College issues public apology for allowing cops to use restroom: ‘It will not happen again’
June 11, 2020

really?...

Yes, I wasn’t sure what rights, as laid out by the constitution, were being violated.

Free speech?
Bearing arms?
Freedom of assembly?
Freedom to representation?
Freedom from unwarranted search and seizure?

Shall I continue?
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and while one is too many, it’s not an epidemic. it doesn’t even approach the impact of urban violence within the black community. not even close.
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It’s really incredible that even now you continue to fail to realize these are different things.
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As Scott said, conservatives don't generally riot. It's almost always liberals who do that.

Look at what places look like after the tea party has had a rally, or after the armed guards protesting state houses (which I didn't like for the record, but the fat is there were no issues).Compare that to what it looks like after liberals (occupy wall street, antifa, BLM, these potheads in Seattle).

If you owned a restaurant across from a park, who would you rather see protesting in that park? The tea party, antifa, BLM, or Occupy Wall Street?

Have fun with that one.
Like i said liberal with gun excersing his 2a rights bad ...conservative with a gun excersing his 2a right good ..

What could go wrong



Occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Who did this liberals

You know why conservatives dont riot. Their to old
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Yes, I wasn’t sure what rights, as laid out by the constitution, were being violated.

Free speech?
Bearing arms?
Freedom of assembly?
Freedom to representation?
Freedom from unwarranted search and seizure?

Shall I continue?
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no I think you've got it correct...if your neighborhood is taken over and occupied by a mob and your local and state government won't do anything about it the Constitution(US and State) is meaningless...you have no rights except those granted by the mob...

.

no I think you've got it correct...if your neighborhood is taken over and occupied by a mob and your local and state government won't do anything about it the Constitution(US and State) is meaningless...you have no rights except those granted by the mob...

.

Is there evidence that this mob is robbing people of their constitutional rights?
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It’s really incredible that even now you continue to fail to realize these are different things.
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I think he realizes it, that's his point.

If Black Lives truly do matter, why are we putting maximum effort to fix something that cost 9 lives in all of 2019 in the entire U.S. and so little effort into trying to fix something that cost 18 lives, last weekend, in just 1 U.S. City.

It's a valid question
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Like i said liberal with gun excersing his 2a rights bad ...conservative with a gun excersing his 2a right good ..

What could go wrong



Occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Who did this liberals

You know why conservatives dont riot. Their to old
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amount of trouble when those conservatives showed up
with guns? zero, as usual.

pissed off liberals with guns = dead cops.

there’s the difference.

now, i asked you if you thought that cops were anywhere near as big a threat to blacks, as other blacks in the cities?

how about answering the damn question?
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Is there evidence that this mob is robbing people of their constitutional rights?
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no, there is clearly no evidence that a mob taking over a portion of an American city and establishing armed check points and declaring it an autonomous zone is taking away anyone's rights...I'm sure every resident and business owner, property and person who may have worked in that area is happy with the situation......


there is quite a bit of evidence that the Seattle mayor is insane however and has no intention of protecting her citizens..

"Seattle Mayor Jenny Durkan on Thursday defended the protesters who have declared an “autonomous zone” on the city’s street as “patriotic.”

In her remarks to the press, Durkan also said President Trump’s threat to send in federal resources to crack down on the protesters was “unconstitutional and illegal.”

“Unfortunately, our President wants to tell a story about domestic terrorists who have a radical agenda and are promoting a conspiracy that fits his law and order initiatives,” Durkan said, according to Patch.

“It’s simply not true. Lawfully gathering and expressing first amendment rights, demanding we do better as a society, and providing true equity for communities of color is not terrorism. It’s patriotism.”

LAWFUL GATHERINGS? I bet if they were occupying her neighborhood she'd have a completely different view

https://youtu.be/KafIdOk8bLs


I'm thinking about getting some guns and some friends and taking over a block or two around a couple of nice drinking establishments this weekend...maybe bring some spray paint and do some artwork and throw some bricks.....call it "patriotic" and "peaceful protest".....because I'm feeling woke

.....good grief

no, there is clearly no evidence that a mob taking over a portion of an American city and establishing armed check points and declaring it an autonomous zone is taking away anyone's rights...I'm sure every resident and business owner, property and person who may have worked in that area is happy with the situation......


there is quite a bit of evidence that the Seattle mayor is insane however and has no intention of protecting her citizens..

"Seattle Mayor Jenny Durkan on Thursday defended the protesters who have declared an “autonomous zone” on the city’s street as “patriotic.”

In her remarks to the press, Durkan also said President Trump’s threat to send in federal resources to crack down on the protesters was “unconstitutional and illegal.”

“Unfortunately, our President wants to tell a story about domestic terrorists who have a radical agenda and are promoting a conspiracy that fits his law and order initiatives,” Durkan said, according to Patch.

“It’s simply not true. Lawfully gathering and expressing first amendment rights, demanding we do better as a society, and providing true equity for communities of color is not terrorism. It’s patriotism.”

LAWFUL GATHERINGS? I bet if they were occupying her neighborhood she'd have a completely different view

https://youtu.be/KafIdOk8bLs


I'm thinking about getting some guns and some friends and taking over a block or two around a couple of nice drinking establishments this weekend...maybe bring some spray paint and do some artwork and throw some bricks.....call it "patriotic" and "peaceful protest".....because I'm feeling woke

.....good grief

At least we agree they aren’t taking anyone’s right away, or at least that there isn’t evidence of it
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I think he realizes it, that's his point.

If Black Lives truly do matter, why are we putting maximum effort to fix something that cost 9 lives in all of 2019 in the entire U.S. and so little effort into trying to fix something that cost 18 lives, last weekend, in just 1 U.S. City.

It's a valid question
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We can do both
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This happened 100 years ago and the economic effects of this and similar events had long lasting effects.
But only blacks riot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-ItsPBTFO0

At least we agree they aren’t taking anyone’s right away, or at least that there isn’t evidence of it
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ok:love:

What could be done about police violence, real or imagined?
First of all we could track what is happening, we don't.
Police Departments are being accused of violating citizens Constitutional rights.

The Federal Government actually has an entity created to make sure that the Constitution is followed.
It was created after the Civil War to ensure that the 14th, 15th and 16th amendments were followed.
No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
It's called the Department of Justice.
It doesn't have jurisdiction over looting, vandalism, and even assault as they are all state crimes and may have some jurisdiction over rioting in some cases.
But it does have the power to examine pattern and practice in law enforcement organizations.
A systemic review of some police organizations starting with Minneapolis, Buffalo, NYC etc. would be well within it's purview.
But Barr refuses to do that.
One would think that he would apply the same diligence and enthusiasm to investigating law enforcement organizations at the state level as he has at the Federal level, it is a core responsibility of the organization he leads.

We can do both
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Even Obamacouldnt fix Chicago.his own state....
This selective outrage has folks temporarily twisted.
Black lives matter
But mostly only because they have been victims of a white citizen.
When they kill each other it is something to ignore
Shift focus and the libs play along.

A systemic review of some police organizations starting with Minneapolis, Buffalo, NYC etc. would be well within it's purview.
But Barr refuses to do that.
One would think that he would apply the same diligence and enthusiasm to investigating law enforcement organizations at the state level as he has at the Federal level, it is a core responsibility of the organization he leads.

one would think the woke democrat mayors of those cities who oversee the police departments in those that you mentioned and the other woke leftist cities would have done so....isn't it their responsibility, if this is a major problem in their cities...??? aren't they listening to their constituents, the people that elected them? What is stopping them??

We can do both
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But we don’t
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We can do both
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Honest to God, I wonder if I will live long enough to once hear a liberal say, "man did my side blow that, we were so stupid."

We can do both, but we don't. We ignore the obvious, more serious problem...and we focus on the smaller problem, and worse, we do it in a way that makes us hate each other. We create all this division, over something that's not even a rounding error.

Why would we do that? Why would the people who run one party, create all this division, over something so rare? To help win elections.

And every time we go down this road, innocent cops get murdered. We know that will be a consequence. But still, the liberals parade out Al Sharpton when this happens. The people pulling the strings know what's going to ensue, there will be tremendous cost and almost no benefit to black lives. But they do it to get the mob good and worked up.

But we don’t
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It's not just that, the entire left pretends that the real problem or urban violence doesn't exist (because the left helped create it, and therefore discussing it doesn't help them win elections), so they need something else to focus attention on, and they fanatically fixate on the very rare issue. It's mind boggling.

I've asked WDMSO twice, and he's hiding under his bed, because he knows there's no reasonable answer.

If you say that black lives matter, but you know the name George Floyd and don't care to know the names of the black cops murdered, or the names of anyone murdered in Chicago, then black lives don't matter, certain black lives matter. The ones that benefit you politically.

That's all this is.

But we don’t
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they won't

Buffalo's Mayor has been in office since 2006
NYC 2014 before him Bloomberg 2002
you can read the list of Minneapolis and Seattle Mayors
Chicago has had democrat mayors since 1931

these are the people responsible for appointing police commissioners and overseeing the police department who are now acting like they have nothing to do with anything.....and encouraging the mob

Why would the people who run one party, create all this division, over something so rare? To help win elections.



Pelosi has been in Washington since 1987 and she just discovered there are Confederate statues that need to be removed :rotf2:

But they do it to get the mob good and worked up.



I encourage these mobs to relocate their newly formed countries to the property immediately surrounding their respective mayor's homes...be sure to bring lots of spray paint and Molotov cocktails and firepower....maybe some popcorn and movies too.....I would encourage them to take whatever they need in their show of "patriotism"....I hope we get to see the reactions of these mayors when it's their neighborhood and home that is under siege :hihi:

At least we agree they aren’t taking anyone’s right away, or at least that there isn’t evidence of it
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just a matter of time....


On Wednesday, the Seattle Police Department said it would try to reopen the East Precinct, and Best was able to visit the location on Thursday. “Our calls for service have more than tripled,” she told reporters. “These are responses to emergency calls — rapes, robberies, and all sorts of violent acts that have been occurring in the area that we’re not able to get to.”

I guess CHAZ Fire and Rescue and CHAZ PD will respond to these calls for help

Interesting that when CHAZ was founded, the first thing the lefties did was put up a wall, and then have people with AR-15s man that wall. Almost ironic and hypocritical, in a way.

Interesting that when CHAZ was founded, the first thing the lefties did was put up a wall, and then have people with AR-15s man that wall. Almost ironic and hypocritical, in a way.
They didn't put up a wall, they just moved some barricades to block cars after a white nationalist drove into the crowd and shot a protester. I think I've read one or two people with guns have been reported. The police have walked back the reports of extortion which were just rumors.

It seems like this is more of a block party sit in that anything else :doh:

They didn't put up a wall, they just moved some barricades to block cars after a white nationalist drove into the crowd and shot a protester. I think I've read one or two people with guns have been reported. The police have walked back the reports of extortion which were just rumors.

It seems like this is more of a block party sit in that anything else :doh:

Fox is pushing the Wall part,, so are their minions

amount of trouble when those conservatives showed up
with guns? zero, as usual.

pissed off liberals with guns = dead cops.

there’s the difference.

now, i asked you if you thought that cops were anywhere near as big a threat to blacks, as other blacks in the cities?

Jim here we go again comparing the 2 as if they are the same .. the only thing these 2 things have in common its be going on for decades

how about answering the damn question?
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Jim we are talking about cops killing unarmed civilians many who are Black .. but you want to compare drug dealer A killing Drug dealer B cant ask for a bigger attempt to avoid the topic at hand ... :btu:

Jim we are talking about cops killing unarmed civilians many who are Black .. but you want to compare drug dealer A killing Drug dealer B cant ask for a bigger attempt to avoid the topic at hand ... :btu:
Jim doesn't realize that the issue is much deeper than just cops using excessive force on black people.

It seems like this is more of a block party sit in that anything else :doh:

Except guys carrying AR-15s. And graffiti.

Yu ant to embrace that side, you want to embrace the ideal of Zonker Harris at Wesleyan, knock yourself out.

Jim doesn't realize that the issue is much deeper than just cops using excessive force on black people.

I realize everything you realize, and many things you don't.

To improve black lives the most, you address the things that negatively impact those lives the most. Cops aint close to being #1 on the list, not even close.

Fatherlessness, welfare addiction, crappy public schools. All are things that destroy the quality of black lives, all are issues that liberalism has made worse.

Jim we are talking about cops killing unarmed civilians many who are Black .. but you want to compare drug dealer A killing Drug dealer B cant ask for a bigger attempt to avoid the topic at hand ... :btu:

I am talking about black lives. Which has a greater negative impact on all black lives? Cops, or urban violence? I presume there is a reason you are doing everything you can, to avoid answering that.

Jim doesn't realize that the issue is much deeper than just cops using excessive force on black people.

I'm the only one talking about things other than cops using excessive force. Takes some serious liberal logic to conclude that the only person mentioning the deeper issues, is the one with no grasp of those issues. I suppose the ones who deny the bigger issues, are the ones with the best grasp of those deeper issues?

I have an idea. Let's take a huge group of people. Let's annihilate the notion of the nuclear family, do everything we can to promote fatherlessness within that community. Let's make many of them addicted to welfare, rob them of the natural human instinct to get ahead. Let's tell them religion is useless. Let's refuse to let them choose to send their kids to better schools (interesting, since liberals like to pat themselves on the back as being pro choice). And when that all inevitably results in huge ghettos full of those people, let's tell the world that white cops are to blame for it all.

That's what democrats have done for blacks. Make that wrong.

Oh, and let's put an abortion clinic on every corner, so that their numbers don't get too crazy.



That's what your side has done. The late, great, liberal Daniel Partick Moynihan saw it coming in the late 60s or early 70s. He was dead on.

It seems like this is more of a block party sit in that anything else :doh:

What about the people who live and work there, who don't want to be swallowed up by a days-long block party? Do they matter at all to a fine, upstanding Bolshevik like yourself?

What about the people who live and work there, who don't want to be swallowed up by a days-long block party? Do they matter at all to a fine, upstanding Bolshevik like yourself?

sounds like everybody hates everybody over in that forward thinking progressive bastion ....I thought they had all of this stuff worked out???



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV_xhb5P0KM

Someone is :lossinit:

You would think that the population of blacks in the Republican States would be doing much better than their cohorts in the Democratic States.

They are not.

But..But..But.......

If the Seattle "block club" is pushing for a community to be fully responsible for policing itself, for its citizens having the unabridged right and duty to arm themselves, to protect their neighborhoods and personal homes and families, to decide how and what their children are taught without interference or "help" from the federal government, to decide what "services" they require in common from their community and pay for it themselves, to have the freedom to buy and sell whatever their community desires, to be free from onerous taxation by the federal government, and free from that government's regulations on what and how they can do to run their own lives, and to remain in the union of sovereign states under the supreme law of the Constitution under its original meaning in order to protect their desired autonomy--for starters--I might like what they're doing, depending on the rest of their story.

But if it's more of the same old kind of nonsense, special rights for special people, set asides, entitlements, perpetual welfare, dependence on government, and the government enforced modeling of humanity--hell no.

Someone is :lossinit:

.......

Please tell me what I said, specifically, that was wrong.

Tell me which of these is wrong, and why...

Liberals attack the notion of the traditional nuclear family
Liberals embrace the idea that sex is casual
liberals do not emphasize the downside of fatherlessness
liberals are less enthusiastic about religion
liberals tend to think the best way to fight poverty, is to give people cash
liberals oppose school choice

I hope they decide to expand their borders to all of Seattle...

hey, can these people still vote now that they've decided they are no longer part of the united states?

What could be done about police violence, real or imagined?
First of all we could track what is happening, we don't.
Police Departments are being accused of violating citizens Constitutional rights.



Well, sunshine, we DO track that. We do, in fact, track race in car stops, arrests, and other situations and reports are generated automatically at the local level for and by requirements of individual states. I am familiar with RI's and know other states have it as well. This system has been implemented for more than a few years. I cannot go into more detail than that.





They didn't put up a wall, they just moved some barricades to block cars after a white nationalist drove into the crowd and shot a protester. I think I've read one or two people with guns have been reported. The police have walked back the reports of extortion which were just rumors.

It seems like this is more of a block party sit in that anything else :doh:


:rotflmao: : "I think I've read"

"white nationalist drove into the crowd and shot a protester." Link?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAk4U7feMmY

What could be done about police violence, real or imagined?
First of all we could track what is happening, we don't.
Police Departments are being accused of violating citizens Constitutional rights.

The Federal Government actually has an entity created to make sure that the Constitution is followed.
It was created after the Civil War to ensure that the 14th, 15th and 16th amendments were followed.
No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
It's called the Department of Justice.
It doesn't have jurisdiction over looting, vandalism, and even assault as they are all state crimes and may have some jurisdiction over rioting in some cases.
But it does have the power to examine pattern and practice in law enforcement organizations.
A systemic review of some police organizations starting with Minneapolis, Buffalo, NYC etc. would be well within it's purview.
But Barr refuses to do that.
One would think that he would apply the same diligence and enthusiasm to investigating law enforcement organizations at the state level as he has at the Federal level, it is a core responsibility of the organization he leads.

Well, sunshine, we DO track that. We do, in fact, track race in car stops, arrests, and other situations and reports are generated automatically at the local level for and by requirements of individual states. I am familiar with RI's and know other states have it as well. This system has been implemented for more than a few years. I cannot go into more detail than that.


But "we" as citizens cannot see that data

And that's exactly why the DOJ is the agency that should investigate.
The records are not public or accessible to investigators outside of police agencies and as has been demonstrated repeatedly police do not like to be investigated by anyone, internally or externally.
So things happen, nobody talks and life goes on.

But "we" as citizens cannot see that data

And that's exactly why the DOJ is the agency that should investigate.
The records are not public or accessible to investigators outside of police agencies and as has been demonstrated repeatedly police do not like to be investigated by anyone, internally or externally.
So things happen, nobody talks and life goes on.

The only reason you want DOJ to investigate is to castigate the DOJ.


"We" as citizens, have proven unable to properly handle that data.

"We" as citizens, should be able to have a detailed dissection of the data and drill down and have comprehensive discussions BUT WE DON'T.

"We" as citizens, like Mom's Demand Action and Everytown, do not look at already PUBLICLY available data on firearm deaths for rifles (average less than 350 per year) and determine that this MASSIVE Gun Grab that divides this country is but for a tiny sliver (less than 0.1%).

So, yeh, maybe it is best NOT to have the data publicly available.

But if you wanted, you could go to your state and ask THEM for the data, or have the local paper do it.

this is pretty fabulous....

Mayor Thomas D'Alesandro, Jr., then mayor of Baltimore, and father of House Minority leader Nancy Pelosi said at the dedication, accepting the statue as the official representative of Baltimore:

"We can look for inspiration to the lives of Lee and Jackson to remind us to be resolute and determined in preserving our sacred institutions.

In these days of uncertainty and turmoil, Americans must emulate Jackson's example and stand like a stone wall against aggression in any form that would seek to destroy the liberty of the world."



there is a statue of Mayor Thomas D'Alesandro, Jr...I think a decapitation is in order...

I am talking about black lives. Which has a greater negative impact on all black lives? Cops, or urban violence? I presume there is a reason you are doing everything you can, to avoid answering that.
Jim they are 2 different conversations and 2 diffterent reasons they exist .. no one has suggest black on black violence isn't an issue
Blacks would agree with you .. and i do as well. but black on black violence has many factors . Where police killing unarmed blacks only have 2 factors blacks and police
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Jim they are 2 different conversations and 2 diffterent reasons they exist .. no one has suggest black on black violence isn't an issue
Blacks would agree with you .. and i do as well. but black on black violence has many factors . Where police killing unarmed blacks only have 2 factors blacks and police
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White people should protest. Cops kill more unarmed whites than blacks. Maybe police should hire only Asians.

Jim they are 2 different conversations and 2 diffterent reasons they exist .. no one has suggest black on black violence isn't an issue
Blacks would agree with you .. and i do as well. but black on black violence has many factors . Where police killing unarmed blacks only have 2 factors blacks and police
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i know they are two different things. that’s why i asked which one does
more damage to the black community.

for the 4th or 5th time, which of these two different things - police brutality or black on black urban violence - claims more black lives?


Why won’t you answer? what does it say about how flimsy and thoughtless your beliefs are, that you are literally incapable of
answering such a simple question?
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Are you suggesting the back community get their own house in order before calling in the police?
Snake Blisken wouldn’t stand a chance in a lawless Chicago.
Animals

There should be no Confederate Statues in Washington DC. But when do they come for Washington and Jefferson?



That didn't take long. Portland Washington

Of course Columbus, all over, but that was a given

But I am paranoid :hihi:

That didn't take long. Portland Washington

Of course Columbus, all over, but that was a given

But I am paranoid :hihi:

when they run out of statues...are they going to head for the museums and libraries? because there is probably a lot of stuff in those places that they can be offended by

That didn't take long. Portland Washington

Of course Columbus, all over, but that was a given

But I am paranoid :hihi:
This has got Antifa’s fingerprints all over it.
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Probably white nationalists trying to tarnish the squeaky clean image of a community watchdog group.

But "we" as citizens cannot see that data

And that's exactly why the DOJ is the agency that should investigate.
The records are not public or accessible to investigators outside of police agencies and as has been demonstrated repeatedly police do not like to be investigated by anyone, internally or externally.
So things happen, nobody talks and life goes on.

The only reason you want DOJ to investigate is to castigate the DOJ.


"We" as citizens, have proven unable to properly handle that data.

"We" as citizens, should be able to have a detailed dissection of the data and drill down and have comprehensive discussions BUT WE DON'T.

"We" as citizens, like Mom's Demand Action and Everytown, do not look at already PUBLICLY available data on firearm deaths for rifles (average less than 350 per year) and determine that this MASSIVE Gun Grab that divides this country is but for a tiny sliver (less than 0.1%).

So, yeh, maybe it is best NOT to have the data publicly available.

But if you wanted, you could go to your state and ask THEM for the data, or have the local paper do it.

The reason I want the DOJ to do it is because it quite literally is their job.
Ensuring the States follow the Constitution is the reason it was created and this was reaffirmed by Congress in the 60s with the Civil Rights Act.

What is not in DOJ's or Tweety's purview is the enforcement of state laws and few, if any federal laws have been violated in the current protests.

What do gun rights have to do with this discussion?

This has got Antifa’s fingerprints all over it.
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Hahaha, no, this is just activists / agitators.


Probably white nationalists trying to tarnish the squeaky clean image of a community watchdog group.

I've heard some say things like that.

The reason I want the DOJ to do it is because it quite literally is their job.
Ensuring the States follow the Constitution is the reason it was created and this was reaffirmed by Congress in the 60s with the Civil Rights Act.

We're somewhat in alignment, I'd like to see the States AND the the Fed do their jobs.

What do gun rights have to do with this discussion?

Everything. The inability of the left and right to detailed look and come to agreement, rather than using the issues of the day as a wedge to separate and further divide us.

That didn't take long. Portland Washington

Of course Columbus, all over, but that was a given

But I am paranoid :hihi:

Up next, Abraham Lincoln..... :wall:

https://www.wcvb.com/article/boston-controversial-abraham-lincoln-statue-calls-for-removal/32860548
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Up next, Abraham Lincoln..... :wall:

https://www.wcvb.com/article/boston-controversial-abraham-lincoln-statue-calls-for-removal/32860548
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Well, to be fair the issue here isn't about Lincoln but rather the depiction of the slave.

Well, to be fair the issue here isn't about Lincoln but rather the depiction of the slave.

Well, to be fair, technically he isn't a slave, he's a free man.......your privilege is showing again.
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Well, to be fair the issue here isn't about Lincoln but rather the depiction of the slave.

Probably better not to have any public art works. All art is subject to, and usually crafted with, "interpretation." Especially art depicting history. Can't think of any such art that wouldn't offend somebody.

Take it all down. And don't replace it with some new art that reflects the current ideological "consensus" on what is a socially just view of history. It will surely be offensive to someone in the future (and probably to someone now).

A historian on statues

Statues are not about remembrance, they are about commemoration; not teaching, but moralizing.

We have large, publicly funded history teaching tools. They're called museums (and also to an extent, battlefield parks).

But statues are not teaching tools. No history is lost when a statue comes down.

The question is, what values does this statue express?

So if you are thinking, "should this statue be here?" The question you want to ask is not "what history is it connected to?" but "what values does it express right now ?" Not who does it glorify, but WHY does it glorify them?

And for the person saying,"well, maybe it was because they were good soldiers" answer this: where are James Longstreet's statues? Why is there one confederate general left out of all of this soldierly commemoration?
Why? Because after the war, he supported reconstruction.
It was never about generalship or leadership, these statues were always about hate and Longstreet didn't hate quite enough for the hateful people who put these statues up.

That's the value they communicate. Hate.

So when evaluating a statue, ask yourself, "What values was this statue created to communicate? Are they good values? Are they values I believe in?"

And if the answer is "no" - remove that statue and replace it with one that does represent our values.

And if you don't think the Confederacy was about slavery and race, you have not read the Declarations of Causes of Seceding States.

One historians opinion does not represent a consensus.
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Well, to be fair, technically he isn't a slave, he's a free man.......your privilege is showing again.
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He’s in shackles, you’re off by a moment.
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He’s in shackles, you’re off by a moment.
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The chains are broken, he's been set free.

His head is held up and he his looking forward. Some great symbolism in this piece.


Stop always trying to keep a Brother down :hihi:

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Maybe the Mayan Calendar is finally right because we surely never invent Time Travel.

If we did invent it, Time Traveling Social Justice Warriors would zip back from the Furry Republic and tell us how bad we are.

He’s in shackles, you’re off by a moment.
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Mr T would be proud of you.
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Social Justice Warriors

.

out of their parents basement to cause mayhem..;)

out of their parents basement to cause mayhem..;)

https://i.imgur.com/mpkefy1.png
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Build a giant cage around Chaz....re-game it Thunderdome, and let them play it out.

Still waiting for all the Antifa arrests, meanwhile good ol' American's, not terrorists like them antifa boys are getting arrested and charged.

OAKLAND — An Air Force sergeant suspected of killing a Santa Cruz County sheriff’s sergeant will be charged, along with a Millbrae man, in the fatal shooting of a federal security officer last month in downtown Oakland, federal officials said Tuesday.

Officials said Carrillo harbored a hatred of law enforcement and had ties to a right-wing Boogaloo group that believes a second American Civil War is coming soon.

Underwood, a 53-year-old Pinole resident, was guarding the Ronald V. Dellums Federal Building in Oakland amid protests nearby over police brutality and the killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis. The white van was captured on a surveillance video, officials said, which revealed that the gunman had slid open the van’s side door to fire the weapon.

An Air Force sergeant and leader in an elite military security force, Carrillo was armed with homemade bombs, an AR-15 rifle and other weapons and had a desire to harm police when he launched a deadly attack on unsuspecting officers, the Santa Cruz County sheriff said Monday.

Officials said Tuesday that Carrillo and Justus were not part of the protests and were taking advantage of them to carry out their attacks.

In New Mexico the two people dressed as militiamen were probably Antifa in disguise
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Still waiting for all the Antifa arrests, meanwhile good ol' American's, not terrorists like them antifa boys are getting arrested and charged.

.

Obviously, this means no Antifa are involved or, if they are, they are being peaceful and law abiding. After all, their name stands for anti-fascism. So with a good name like that they could not possibly be about doing bad stuff.

And don't go on about the myth that they do as much as they can to not be recognized. To not be obvious dum-dums like real fascists and white supremecists who proudly parade their wares and their ability to create mayhem and death.

It’s interesting to remember that less than a year ago Tweety’s FBI director told Congress that the "majority of the domestic terrorism cases we’ve investigated are motivated by some version of what you might call white supremacist violence."
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It’s interesting to remember that less than a year ago Tweety’s FBI director told Congress that the "majority of the domestic terrorism cases we’ve investigated are motivated by some version of what you might call white supremacist violence."
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You mean like the Boogalo Bois who just shot and killed a federal agent at a protest?

Still waiting for all the Antifa arrests, meanwhile good ol' American's, not terrorists like them antifa boys are getting arrested and charged.

OAKLAND — An Air Force sergeant suspected of killing a Santa Cruz County sheriff’s sergeant will be charged, along with a Millbrae man, in the fatal shooting of a federal security officer last month in downtown Oakland, federal officials said Tuesday.

Officials said Carrillo harbored a hatred of law enforcement and had ties to a right-wing Boogaloo group that believes a second American Civil War is coming soon.

Underwood, a 53-year-old Pinole resident, was guarding the Ronald V. Dellums Federal Building in Oakland amid protests nearby over police brutality and the killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis. The white van was captured on a surveillance video, officials said, which revealed that the gunman had slid open the van’s side door to fire the weapon.

An Air Force sergeant and leader in an elite military security force, Carrillo was armed with homemade bombs, an AR-15 rifle and other weapons and had a desire to harm police when he launched a deadly attack on unsuspecting officers, the Santa Cruz County sheriff said Monday.

Officials said Tuesday that Carrillo and Justus were not part of the protests and were taking advantage of them to carry out their attacks.

Good. Law enforcement caught them, investigated, and are going to determine a motive. May they be proescuted with the full extent of the law.

The people that killed Captain Dorn should be apprehended and prosecuted (see how that works).

THe people that killed others i anything but self defense should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Regardless of skin color, religion, or political leanings.

The only reason you want DOJ to investigate is to castigate the DOJ.


"We" as citizens, have proven unable to properly handle that data.

"We" as citizens, should be able to have a detailed dissection of the data and drill down and have comprehensive discussions BUT WE DON'T.

"We" as citizens, like Mom's Demand Action and Everytown, do not look at already PUBLICLY available data on firearm deaths for rifles (average less than 350 per year) and determine that this MASSIVE Gun Grab that divides this country is but for a tiny sliver (less than 0.1%).

So, yeh, maybe it is best NOT to have the data publicly available.

But if you wanted, you could go to your state and ask THEM for the data, or have the local paper do it.
I have not spent the time to validate this, but based on my attempts to find this information, I suspect that it is correct
FBI launched database on police use of force last year, but only 40 percent of police participated, and the data has not been published yet.

This data belongs to the public.
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