Illinois teen arrested in fatal shooting at Kenosha protest, police say [Archive] - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

JohnR

08-27-2020, 08:24 AM

Has Donald Trump condemned his racist supporter Kyle Rittenhous who murderered 2 people in Kenosha last night?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Let me explain, no there is too much. Let me sum up.

For three months streets in this country have been mostly peacefully protested (riot) while some real murders and some imagined have occured, but consistently due process and waiting for the facts has been ignored.

For three months extremes on both sides, but mostly the left, have been crossing state lines to mostly peacefully protest (riot).

Kenosha Wisconsin several days ago, police are responding to a Domestic Violence call where they try to apprehend Blake, someone with open warrants, and if some articles are true, restraining orders for him not to be there.

Reports are that officers wrestled with Blake, he had a knife, and he broke free and went into his vehicle (the officers will not know if he has a gun as well). Officer shoots Blake in the back. Tragic. In Normal times we would let the investigation runs its course. We are not in normal times.

This caused riots mostly peacefully protests. Some armed people went to protect areas from looting. A 17 year old kid (foolishly) went to support and after various events was separated from group, charged by several people, kicked by one, hit with a skateboard by another, and one of the people charging him, wearing “paramedic” gear and carrying a Glock (unsure of its medical utility), firing in the air. Seventeen year old kid shoots people. Seventeen year old kid calls cops.

NYT people did a walk through on social media posted videos and actually got some of the timeline and posted the OSINT in Twitter. Interesting read, and seemingly more accurate than what they published in the paper.

If the facts remotely mean anything, check your effing bias for a minute and read it.

https://twitter.com/trbrtc/status/1298839097923063809

wdmso

08-27-2020, 08:52 AM

Did you start any threads when the rioters destroyed public property, or assaulted or murdered people? Or do you only care when conservatives do it?

Why would i i have the abilities to know the difference bettween riots and peacefully protests . And have never shown support for burning or looting thats yours and conservatives talking point..

But once again you see all events as equal.

You see the all police killing as justified .

You see all protesters as antifa and all prostest as riots

You dismiss the protesters reasons for why they are protesting with comments about black on black crime or theybshould have just done what they were told

And yet you have no comment on this kid being radicalized with his militia shooting 3 people. yet on fox and other conservatives sites hes a new hero

Tucker Carlson suggests teen charged with killing Kenosha protesters had to ‘maintain order when no one else would

But I know Trump the RNC can spew their outrageous rhetoric blow their dog whistles

And when supporters act at their suggestion

They claim no responsibility
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Pete F.

08-27-2020, 08:54 AM

Let me explain, no there is too much. Let me sum up.

For three months streets in this country have been mostly peacefully protested (riot) while some real murders and some imagined have occured, but consistently due process and waiting for the facts has been ignored.

For three months extremes on both sides, but mostly the left, have been crossing state lines to mostly peacefully protest (riot).

Kenosha Wisconsin several days ago, police are responding to a Domestic Violence call where they try to apprehend Blake, someone with open warrants, and if some articles are true, restraining orders for him not to be there.

Reports are that officers wrestled with Blake, he had a knife,Blake had a knife on the driver's side floorboard and had no other weapons, the DOJ said in a news release. and he broke free and went into his vehicle (the officers will not know if he has a gun as well). Officer shoots Blake in the back. Tragic. In Normal times we would let the investigation runs its course. We are not in normal times.

This caused riots mostly peacefully protests. Some armed people went to protect areas from looting. A 17 year old kid (foolishly) went to support and after various events was separated from group, charged by several people, kicked by one, hit with a skateboard by another, and one of the people charging him, wearing “paramedic” gear and carrying a Glock (unsure of its medical utility), firing in the air. Seventeen year old kid shoots people. Seventeen year old kid calls cops.

NYT people did a walk through on social media posted videos and actually got some of the timeline and posted the OSINT in Twitter. Interesting read, and seemingly more accurate than what they published in the paper.

If the facts remotely mean anything, check your effing bias for a minute and read it.

https://twitter.com/trbrtc/status/1298839097923063809

As I said 3 months ago, there is a great advantage to Tweety in encouraging riots.

Wait till this afternoon when we see Tweety in his Rose Garden Presser try and pivot the attention from the virus to the riots.
Just like in the 1968 race, when Roger Ailes told Nixon to pivot from Vietnam to the post-King riots.
Nixon went full-on "law and order" not only about African Americans but also about the hippy proto-Bernie Bros in Chicago.

Ailes knew the secret "law and order" was a code for race and for culture anxiety in 1968. The language, the "Silent Majority" crap, the aggrieved whining is 1968 all over again.

Tweety wants the coverage of burning buildings. Tweety wants the cops v protesters.

By later today, you'll see posts about law and order backing a lawless and orderless Administration led by a criminal. Bannon, Miller, and the rest of the Trump fluffers ADORE this culture war.

They're ALREADY modeling how the rioting plays for campaign messaging, I promise you.

Just what do you think is going to happen if you allow vigilantes to play cop?

Here is the shooter being offered and tossed a bottled water out of a LEO vehicle. “We appreciate you guys being out here.”

https://twitter.com/randomanne/status/1298505513764782080?s=20

JohnR

08-27-2020, 08:55 AM

I'm still waiting for proof he was "Radicalized". Obviously facts are important to you.

Right now, I do not see much difference between him and the Marxist Soldiers he shot.

Pete F.

08-27-2020, 09:05 AM

Marxist Soldiers?

spence

08-27-2020, 09:07 AM

Marxist Soldiers?
"Trained" Marxist Soldiers. It's a pre-requisite to being an Antifa terrorist.

detbuch

08-27-2020, 09:17 AM

And he’ll headline the RNC tonight

Trump won’t condemn the 17 year-old killer because it’s exactly the message he wants to send. Take to the streets and my people will kill you. That kid was just as much a part of his movement as the anonymous federal troops.

Attaboy Herr Goebbels, extend the big lie.

spence

08-27-2020, 09:21 AM

Kenosha Wisconsin several days ago, police are responding to a Domestic Violence call where they try to apprehend Blake, someone with open warrants, and if some articles are true, restraining orders for him not to be there.

Reports are that officers wrestled with Blake, he had a knife, and he broke free and went into his vehicle (the officers will not know if he has a gun as well). Officer shoots Blake in the back. Tragic. In Normal times we would let the investigation runs its course. We are not in normal times.
Sounds like they need to speed up their acquisitions of body cameras.

I've read he had a knife in the car, I keep one in the car also. It appears he did have an open warrant for a small domestic issue in July. We don't know if the officers even knew about it. That being said after watching both videos I can't see any justification for 7 shots into the back of someone who's not acting in a violent manner to anyone around and has three kids in the car.

Pete F.

08-27-2020, 09:59 AM

Attaboy Herr Goebbels, extend the big lie.
How do Trump aides see Kenosha? Here's Kellyanne Conway to Fox this AM on what they see as political upside: "The more chaos and anarchy and vandalism and violence reigns, the better it is for the very clear choice on who's best on public safety, and law and order."
As I said in May Tweety will never do anything to stop riots and disorder, they are great for him.
Much better than talking about his failed response to COVID-19, 5M infected and 180K dead.
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wdmso

08-27-2020, 10:00 AM

So the cop thinks hes going for a knife ok but still shooting him 7 times in the back is far from justified.

Yet a man kills 2 injuries 1 walks by responding police with his hand up and his ar 15 in clear view with bystander repeatedly yells that “that dude just shot someone,” but an officer in one vehicle simply asks if anyone is injured and drives toward the slain and wounded protesters — leaving the shooter to walk away.

And we wonder why people have a issue with police seeing the response between the 2 are so opposite?

It easy to see why people think what tbey think

Black man maybe reaching for a knife gets 7 rounds in the back

White guy with ar 15 kills 2 hurts another police drive by him ?

Other than race i find it hard to explain what else it could be

detbuch

08-27-2020, 10:28 AM

How do Trump aides see Kenosha? Here's Kellyanne Conway to Fox this AM on what they see as political upside: "The more chaos and anarchy and vandalism and violence reigns, the better it is for the very clear choice on who's best on public safety, and law and order."
As I said in May Tweety will never do anything to stop riots and disorder, they are great for him.
Much better than talking about his failed response to COVID-19, 5M infected and 180K dead.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

This is rich. If he sends in the troops, you'll accuse him of breaking the Constitution. If the local authorities don't stop the violence and vandalism, you blame him for not stopping it and playing politics. And then you claim that it is mostly peaceful when the violence and vandalism are pointed out.

Pete F.

08-27-2020, 10:33 AM

Tweety, now tell us about how white people are killed by police.
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JohnR

08-27-2020, 11:34 AM

Marxist Soldiers?

Yes. Sex Offenders too it seems.

Well, ALLEGEDLY, one guy was a Registered Sex Offender, another has a history of battery and domestic abuse, and the guy with the paramedic hat (ye right) and the Glock is a self-proclaimed member if the People's Revolution Movement. His record includes being intoxicated with a gun.

What is it about Lefty Violence that attracts people like that. huh.

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1298833015548739587

"Trained" Marxist Soldiers. It's a pre-requisite to being an Antifa terrorist.

I would not conflate LARPING with training.

Sounds like they need to speed up their acquisitions of body cameras.

I've read he had a knife in the car, I keep one in the car also. It appears he did have an open warrant for a small domestic issue in July. We don't know if the officers even knew about it. That being said after watching both videos I can't see any justification for 7 shots into the back of someone who's not acting in a violent manner to anyone around and has three kids in the car.

I also assume you would not be resisting detention not have warrants for your arrest. If you did, and you were white, you may have reached same outcome.

So the cop thinks hes going for a knife ok but still shooting him 7 times in the back is far from justified.

Yet a man kills 2 injuries 1 walks by responding police with his hand up and his ar 15 in clear view with bystander repeatedly yells that “that dude just shot someone,” but an officer in one vehicle simply asks if anyone is injured and drives toward the slain and wounded protesters — leaving the shooter to walk away.

And we wonder why people have a issue with police seeing the response between the 2 are so opposite?

It easy to see why people think what tbey think

Black man maybe reaching for a knife gets 7 rounds in the back

White guy with ar 15 kills 2 hurts another police drive by him ?

Other than race i find it hard to explain what else it could be

Many black groups have walked armed and not been arrested by police. Not enough information on site at the time.

But so I understand this: you want the police detaining white people causing trouble but not detaining black people causing trouble? Rather than people causing trouble regardless of anything??

wdmso

08-27-2020, 12:25 PM

Yes. Sex Offenders too it seems.

Well, ALLEGEDLY, one guy was a Registered Sex Offender, another has a history of battery and domestic abuse, and the guy with the paramedic hat (ye right) and the Glock is a self-proclaimed member if the People's Revolution Movement. His record includes being intoxicated with a gun.

What is it about Lefty Violence that attracts people like that. huh.

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1298833015548739587

I would not conflate LARPING with training.

I also assume you would not be resisting detention not have warrants for your arrest. If you did, and you were white, you may have reached same outcome.

Many black groups have walked armed and not been arrested by police. Not enough information on site at the time.

But so I understand this: you want the police detaining white people causing trouble but not detaining black people causing trouble? Rather than people causing trouble regardless of anything??

No I want police to stop using excessive force . On all americans but it seems this suggestion is anti law enforcement in conservative circles.

I do not want see looters and arsonist burning down areas . But it seems the vilification by The Republicans lumping protesters into one group. Yet there never seems to be an effort to stop the behavior. Via dialog or force. Seeing we hear about all the molotov cocktails but never actually see them . We see police just keeping holding a line. Night after night. But were told by the Trump and his minions all the protesters all end in some form ists ..socialists communists anarchists and dont be fooled they are not protesting police brutality .. they are comming for YOU
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JohnR

08-27-2020, 12:37 PM

No I want police to stop using excessive force . On all americans but it seems this suggestion is anti law enforcement in conservative circles.

I too want to see excesive use of force stopped being used against Americans. I know some people that have excessive force used against them and it was justified, and others when it was not. But right now we have situations that happen when it is justified or not we do not know because people knee jerk into rioting (different from protest) before any facts are discovered.

I do not want see looters and arsonist burning down areas . But it seems the vilification by The Republicans lumping protesters into one group.
When the news says that everyone is mostly peaceful protesting and won't COVER the actual riots

Yet there never seems to be an effort to stop the behavior. Via dialog or force. Seeing we hear about all the molotov cocktails but never actually see them . We see police just keeping holding a line. Night after night. But were told by the Trump and his minions all the protesters all end in some form ists ..socialists communists anarchists and dont be fooled they are not protesting police brutality .. they are comming for YOU
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

It is up to the local elected officials to to work that out, some have, some have blamed everyone else for the problem (much as you seem to do) and some have blamed others yet demanded their own homes be blocked off from protesters, cough Lightfoot.

You and Spence are apparently OK with the mostly peaceful protesting of federal buildings, the looting of people's business and when it happens you blame the right.

JohnR

08-27-2020, 12:38 PM

Well, ALLEGEDLY, one guy was a Registered Sex Offender, another has a history of battery and domestic abuse, and the guy with the paramedic hat (ye right) and the Glock is a self-proclaimed member if the People's Revolution Movement. His record includes being intoxicated with a gun.

What is it about Lefty Violence that attracts people like that. huh.

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status...33015548739587 (https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1298833015548739587)

Pete F.

08-27-2020, 12:47 PM

Don't go trolling with that garbage bait, Andy Ngo

Despite the right’s effort to affix the term leftist to everyone from Joe Biden to Chairman Mao, there’s a vast ideological gulf between mainstream American liberals and antifa, an anarchist group that justifies its violence by rejecting the legitimacy of the state. Historically, in fact, the revolutionary left has loathed liberals, who generally support the reform—not the overthrow—of existing political and economic institutions. Which helps explain why many of the journalists antifa has attacked aren’t conservatives at all.

It’s true that, in the years since Donald Trump’s election, a few leftists have, to their discredit, apologized for antifa’s violence. But if the response to the attack on Ngo is any guide, those apologies are diminishing as the ugliness of antifa’s conduct grows more inescapable.

The irony in all this is that there’s one extremely prominent American figure who really does cheer political violence: Donald Trump. Imagine if publications such as the Daily Caller held the president to the same standard that they’re applying to liberals.

JohnR

08-27-2020, 12:56 PM

Pete F.

08-27-2020, 01:04 PM

That trolling bait Ngo is one of the people that have been doing the actual job the journalists should be doing. Filming and posting unedited videos where you can see more.

Besides, you Wayne and Spence have been adamant that Antifa is a myth. How much the problem is really right wing Nazis

You guys apologize for it all the time, defend it as protesting. Or trumps fault. Trump has not burned Portland for 90+ days.

Democrats OWN this.

Trump is the only person who gains an advantage from this and as I said three months ago he's playing it for every bit he can.
He needs it because he failed as president, he's still failing.
It's his watch, he's in charge not Biden or the Dems

spence

08-27-2020, 01:09 PM

Besides, you Wayne and Spence have been adamant that Antifa is a myth. How much the problem is really right wing Nazis

You guys apologize for it all the time, defend it as protesting.
Check the logs, I think Pence might have hacked your account.

wdmso

08-27-2020, 01:13 PM

I too want to see excesive use of force stopped being used against Americans. I know some people that have excessive force used against them and it was justified, and others when it was not. But right now we have situations that happen when it is justified or not we do not know because people knee jerk into rioting (different from protest) before any facts are discovered.

When the news says that everyone is mostly peaceful protesting and won't COVER the actual riots

It is up to the local elected officials to to work that out, some have, some have blamed everyone else for the problem (much as you seem to do) and some have blamed others yet demanded their own homes be blocked off from protesters, cough Lightfoot.

You and Spence are apparently OK with the mostly peaceful protesting of federal buildings, the looting of people's business and when it happens you blame the right.
There is nothing that guy did to warrant shooting him 7 times in the back.. it cant be spun.. if someone points a gun at a cop .and they get shot by the officer iam good with that .

who blames everyone else? his Name is Donald Trump

Thanks for that classic conservative response,

Is thats what you think ... that being against police brutality equals anti law enforcement and support of protester equal support of looting and riots

And let me guess being against Trump

Equals being against America..

In your view ?

Yet any time police shoot an un armed black man
All i read is blame the guy who got shot.. should have done this or that or he had a record on and on .. and its not accidental same thing with this guy
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detbuch

08-27-2020, 02:02 PM

Trump is the only person who gains an advantage from this and as I said three months ago he's playing it for every bit he can.

Wasn't it you, or one of your minions here, who gleefully and approvingly quoted Napoleon "Never Interrupt Your Enemy When He Is Making A Mistake" in regard to Trump supposedly beating himself. So now that Trump can take advantage of that, you seem to think it's somehow underhanded--"playing it for every bit he can." So it's only good when anti-Trumpers do this.

He needs it because he failed as president, he's still failing.
It's his watch, he's in charge not Biden or the Dems

He has not failed. Quite the contrary. And he is not in charge of the States and cities. The mostly peaceful violence is on their watch, not his. All they need to do is ask for federal help, but that would put Trump in a good light if he gave it. So, many have preferred to let the mostly peaceful violence and mayhem continue.

But you and the anti-Trump minions will keep grinding away with the big lie. It's all they have.

Pete F.

08-27-2020, 02:05 PM

The shooter traveled 300 miles to be on the front row at the Des Moines Trump rally. He's the textbook definition of a "Trump supporter."

JohnR

08-27-2020, 02:06 PM

Trump is the only person who gains an advantage from this and as I said three months ago he's playing it for every bit he can.
He needs it because he failed as president, he's still failing.
It's his watch, he's in charge not Biden or the Dems

Check the logs, I think Pence might have hacked your account.

Antifa Myth
(Pete's thread (http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/showthread.php?t=96556&highlight=myth))
Spence June 1 (Vastly Overated (http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/showpost.php?p=1194200&postcount=7) because 98% of violent extremist attacks are white suprems)
Wayne's it's OK because they oppose Trump (http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/showpost.php?p=1194202&postcount=8)

The three of you in particular have repeatedly defended the mostly peaceful rioting by a small tiny group that are OK becaues they are against Trump.

There is nothing that guy did to warrant shooting him 7 times in the back.. it cant be spun.. if someone points a gun at a cop .and they get shot by the officer iam good with that .

We don't know that because we are no longer allowed to complete an investigation. You don't know if he has a gun in that door pocket, nor does the cop but the cop has probably been told by dispatch that Blake has a warrant / DV. But you have decided its OK because feels / oppression.

who blames everyone else? his Name is Donald Trump

Thanks for that classic conservative response,

Is thats what you think ... that being against police brutality equals anti law enforcement and support of protester equal support of looting and riots

Trump didn't go shoot Floyd. Trump didn't go loot Portland.

And let me guess being against Trump

Equals being against America..

In your view ?

Actually no. I did not vote for Trump. I support the 1A, and peaceful assembly. I think the Constitution, even though imperfect, is the best document ever created. I have zero support for little Marxists Che Wannabe Commies. Which, BTW, was common among Dems too until the useful idiots got involved.

Yet any time police shoot an un armed black man
All i read is blame the guy who got shot.. should have done this or that or he had a record on and on .. and its not accidental same thing with this guy
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Sometimes it is justified, sometimes it is not - this is why it is supposed to be investigated.

But why let facts stand in the way of a good riot.

JohnR

08-27-2020, 02:08 PM

He has not failed. Quite the contrary. And he is not in charge of the States and cities. The mostly peaceful violence is on their watch, not his. All they need to do is ask for federal help, but that would put Trump in a good light if he gave it. So, many have preferred to let the mostly peaceful violence and mayhem continue.

But you and the anti-Trump minions will keep grinding away with the big lie. It's all they have.

Remember, it is OK to support your local Dem Governor calling out Trump because States Rights not Federal, yada yada yada but when the local politicians don't stop the rioting and looting it is Trump / feds fault.

Nebe

08-27-2020, 02:39 PM

Electric chair time
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

JohnR

08-27-2020, 02:59 PM

Legal process time.

spence

08-27-2020, 03:07 PM

Electric chair time
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
No, he'll get praised by the social warriors as standing up to the mobs of Antifa Biden Terrorists which is just going to activate more crazies.

Pete F.

08-27-2020, 03:13 PM

There were protests for BLM in all 50 states. There was destruction associated with some events.
There have always been people taking advantage of protests or dissension to steal, destroy or otherwise inappropriately behave or express themselves. Nothing new here, but now we are claiming that we have discovered who has been doing it. Where was Antifa in 1965 at the Watts riots? 67 in Detroit? 92 in LA? 1898 in Wilmington? 1863 in NYC? 1921 in West Virginia? 1863 in Richmond? 1824 in Hardscrabble and Snowtown? There have been hundreds.
Every one of those had significant destruction associated with them, some included mass murders.
If you are falling for the BE VERY AFRAID of Antifa and it's the Dems message of the RNC you're being played.

It's pretty obvious that there are issues with law enforcement in this country. There are no simple solutions.
But militarizing the police will not make it go away, it hasn't so far has it?
I have not seen any movement towards a solution by this administration other than offers to send federal officers to do something.
Just what are they going to do, run the protesters over with tanks like the CCP or gas them like Tweety in DC? It's pretty much guaranteed to escalate the dissension.

There are things that can be done and have not.

It is within the Jurisdiction of the DOJ to look into Civil Rights violations, which is what most police issues arise from. Since President Trump took office, the Justice Department has publicly announced only one pattern-or-practice investigation into a police department. Additionally, the Justice Department has another tool for working with police departments to implement large-scale reforms, but the Trump administration has rolled that back as well. For many years, the Collaborative Reform Initiative in its Office of Community Oriented Policing Services (COPS) spearheaded police reform by “undertaking assessments of a law enforcement agency’s operations, providing recommendations for reform, and assisting the agency in implementing those reforms.”

Through this program, which had widespread support from police chiefs across the country, the Justice Department avoided complex and lengthy litigation by working with cities to reform policing practices. The COPS’s Office worked with cities including Las Vegas, Philadelphia, Milwaukee, and San Francisco.

In 2017, however, Sessions announced that the COPS Office would abandon this practice and discontinue the significant work that began under the Obama administration. At that time, 16 police departments across the country had signed up for the program. According to the New York Times, the “initiative was popular enough among chiefs that there was a monthslong wait to join it; now, the Justice Department has told at least one city that it must file a public records request even to see the program’s research on its police department.”
Just being vocal about doing something instead of saying "white people get killed by police too" would have done something to move towards a solution.

Power does not make you a leader, but leadership produces power.
Trump has shown himself to be incapable of leading.
But as I said in May, no civil strife would not have produced the distraction from Trump's failure on the virus, what has occurred is to his advantage and Kellyanne Conway said it out loud today.

scottw

08-27-2020, 03:23 PM

does spence write headlines for cnn?

Pete F.

08-27-2020, 03:27 PM

Electric chair time
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I think they are doing that at the RNC tonite for a grand finale

Jim in CT

08-27-2020, 03:29 PM

Legal process time.

you don’t think trial in the media works? ask ex officer darren wilson, the duke lacrosse players, Nick Sandman, etc...

the race baiters never learn. it’s like al sharpton is running the democratic party and the media. they’re using his exact m.o.
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spence

08-27-2020, 03:30 PM

I think they are doing that at the RNC tonite for a grand finale
No, Ted Nugent is going to skewer a Hillary doll with his crossbow. It's going to be great.

Jim in CT

08-27-2020, 03:38 PM

No, Ted Nugent is going to skewer a Hillary doll with his crossbow. It's going to be great.

is tom cotton not a serious person? honors graduate of harvard and harvard law, then enlisted in the army and asked for the infantry. does that not indicate a man who has brains and courage and a sense of duty and integrity?
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The Dad Fisherman

08-27-2020, 04:30 PM

No, Ted Nugent is going to skewer a Hillary doll with his crossbow. It's going to be great.

That would be awesome.
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JohnR

08-27-2020, 04:33 PM

If any of you thinks this all ends peacefully, we are fast approaching the reconciliation point of no return.

If you are falling for the BE VERY AFRAID of Antifa and it's the Dems message of the RNC you're being played.

You are justifying and providing cover for useful idiots.

Maybe they'll burn down (or confiscate) your home last

spence

08-27-2020, 04:58 PM

If any of you thinks this all ends peacefully, we are fast approaching the reconciliation point of no return.
My biggest concern is Trump getting hammered in the election and making a call to arms.

wdmso

08-27-2020, 05:02 PM

Antifa Myth
(Pete's thread (http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/showthread.php?t=96556&highlight=myth))
Spence June 1 (Vastly Overated (http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/showpost.php?p=1194200&postcount=7) because 98% of violent extremist attacks are white suprems)
Wayne's it's OK because they oppose Trump (http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/showpost.php?p=1194202&postcount=8)

The three of you in particular have repeatedly defended the mostly peaceful rioting by a small tiny group that are OK becaues they are against Trump.

We don't know that because we are no longer allowed to complete an investigation. You don't know if he has a gun in that door pocket, nor does the cop but the cop has probably been told by dispatch that Blake has a warrant / DV. But you have decided its OK because feels / oppression.

Trump didn't go shoot Floyd. Trump didn't go loot Portland.

Actually no. I did not vote for Trump. I support the 1A, and peaceful assembly. I think the Constitution, even though imperfect, is the best document ever created. I have zero support for little Marxists Che Wannabe Commies. Which, BTW, was common among Dems too until the useful idiots got involved.

Sometimes it is justified, sometimes it is not - this is why it is supposed to be investigated.

But why let facts stand in the way of a good riot.

Only in America can people support killing a person based on a feeling I thought he had a gun or thought he was going for a knife .. so I shot him 7 times in the back.... you shoot 7 time for 3 reason fear or anger or your in a shoot out what facts would make this ok?

Even in Iraq aka combat zone me or my men did not have the latitude to shoot an Iraqi because he might be armed or I thought he was reaching for something

Sad that in the united states Police rules of engagement are weaker than one in a war zone against their own citizens

I am fully aware of the responsibilities of wearing a weapon and taser in public plainclothes walking convicted felons from the car, down public streets and thru hospital lobby's eyeballing everyone on the off chance that today's the day . Is his victim here an angry family member a rival gang? Going to act..

So I see my criticisms of the shooting not form the view of some guy on the couch who has no clue . But from a position of experience and a supervisor... nor iam I suggesting he was a bad person or bad officer. But some mistakes cant be ingnored or undone with arguments like the guy had a record or he beat his wife . Or had a rape charge, or the color of their skin. thats just not fair treatment under the law .

Got Stripers

08-27-2020, 06:14 PM

MSNBC just ran a couple telling video comparisons on how some white mass murderers are calmly and peacefully arrested and in the case of Charlestown Church killer, even taken to Burger King right after because he was hungry. The other one show cased a naked crazed killer of three, actually attacking a grounds keeper and yet the multiple police let him run around clearly a threat and all he gets is some pepper spray. The average white American has no clue the profiling and real potential danger young black men live with and the way it might impact their behavior in a stressful encounter with a white police officer which might give him the impression his life might be in danger. Easy for us white men and women living in our comfortable homes in the suburbs to say that black man should have just calmly given up, when we don’t understand the decades of abuse that might shade their instinctive reaction.

Did your white mom and dad after giving you the birds and the bees talk, sit you down and warn you about how your life may be taken from you in a second because of your skin color, live a year in their shoes and your opinion of these incidents might change.

Again the rioting and property damage is wrong and plays right into Trumps play book, but there is a reason for concern. I’m not saying defund police, but they are protected from any criminal charges by contract in far to many municipalities. Trump won’t change anything because he to believes he is above the law as the nations top police officer.

Pete F.

08-27-2020, 09:00 PM

If any of you thinks this all ends peacefully, we are fast approaching the reconciliation point of no return.

You are justifying and providing cover for useful idiots.

Maybe they'll burn down (or confiscate) your home last

You’re not paying attention
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

JohnR

08-28-2020, 07:18 AM

Only in America can people support killing a person based on a feeling I thought he had a gun or thought he was going for a knife .. so I shot him 7 times in the back.... you shoot 7 time for 3 reason fear or anger or your in a shoot out what facts would make this ok?

Even in Iraq aka combat zone me or my men did not have the latitude to shoot an Iraqi because he might be armed or I thought he was reaching for something

Sad that in the united states Police rules of engagement are weaker than one in a war zone against their own citizens

I am fully aware of the responsibilities of wearing a weapon and taser in public plainclothes walking convicted felons from the car, down public streets and thru hospital lobby's eyeballing everyone on the off chance that today's the day . Is his victim here an angry family member a rival gang? Going to act..

So I see my criticisms of the shooting not form the view of some guy on the couch who has no clue . But from a position of experience and a supervisor... nor iam I suggesting he was a bad person or bad officer. But some mistakes cant be ingnored or undone with arguments like the guy had a record or he beat his wife . Or had a rape charge, or the color of their skin. thats just not fair treatment under the law .

By skin it is not fair treatment of the law - we have not reached fairness yet, and fully. Black people are proportionally targeted higher than others - it is not right and it is not fair. If the guy had a record or he beat his wife or had a rape charge, DV history, Assault with weapons charges can and SHOULD be a metric. Blowing up and defunding the entire system is not the answer.

But we don't know if the guy was reaching for something, clearly you are with the not other factors mattering or determined by investigation.

We are not having the conversation on what will really make strides to fix the system, we have people wanting to tear everything down because that will somehow be better - what a stupid effing thing to believe.

We are not trying to get where facts dictate what happened we are where narrative writes what to believe. We can't wait until the facts say George Floyd was wrongly murdered (likely, but the legal system needs to decide) and too many people ignore that Mike Brown was found the aggressor

We no longer take facts in the matter because "Hands Up Don't Shoot", meant to never happened with Michael Brown yet almost everyone thinks he said that and people shout it at every protest. And people then went out and executed cops in many places because reacting before understanding the facts.

Other black people have died because wrong decisions by cops and sheer stupidity, and it is wrong, happnes to white preople too. What is it by demographics? Is it outsized then too?

The vast majority of everyone thinks that

MSNBC just ran a couple telling video comparisons on how some white mass murderers are calmly and peacefully arrested and in the case of Charlestown Church killer, even taken to Burger King right after because he was hungry. The other one show cased a naked crazed killer of three, actually attacking a grounds keeper and yet the multiple police let him run around clearly a threat and all he gets is some pepper spray. The average white American has no clue the profiling and real potential danger young black men live with and the way it might impact their behavior in a stressful encounter with a white police officer which might give him the impression his life might be in danger. Easy for us white men and women living in our comfortable homes in the suburbs to say that black man should have just calmly given up, when we don’t understand the decades of abuse that might shade their instinctive reaction.

Did your white mom and dad after giving you the birds and the bees talk, sit you down and warn you about how your life may be taken from you in a second because of your skin color, live a year in their shoes and your opinion of these incidents might change.

Again the rioting and property damage is wrong and plays right into Trumps play book, but there is a reason for concern. I’m not saying defund police, but they are protected from any criminal charges by contract in far to many municipalities. Trump won’t change anything because he to believes he is above the law as the nations top police officer.

Of course MSNBC did. There is also a common thread since yesterday that the cops in Kenosha were giving the shooter water because

You’re not paying attention
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I am not buying your insanity, there is a difference.

Pete F.

08-28-2020, 08:34 AM

JohnR

08-28-2020, 08:53 AM

Here's some insanity for you

Aubrey Huff: “Kyle Rittenhouse is national treasure.”
Ann Coulter: “I want him as my president.”
Tucker Carlson: “How shocked are we that 17-year-olds with rifles decided they had to maintain order when no one else would?”

I don't adhere to the rambles of those people you mention. IDGAF

He should never have been there. This is HIS fault and Local Gov's fault.

Local Law enforcement should not be over run by mostly peaceful protestors (a/k/a rioters)
An angry (armed) mob was running down breaking property

Jim in CT

08-28-2020, 09:21 AM

By skin it is not fair treatment of the law - we have not reached fairness yet, and fully. Black people are proportionally targeted higher than others - it is not right and it is not fair. If the guy had a record or he beat his wife or had a rape charge, DV history, Assault with weapons charges can and SHOULD be a metric. Blowing up and defunding the entire system is not the answer.

But we don't know if the guy was reaching for something, clearly you are with the not other factors mattering or determined by investigation.

We are not having the conversation on what will really make strides to fix the system, we have people wanting to tear everything down because that will somehow be better - what a stupid effing thing to believe.

We are not trying to get where facts dictate what happened we are where narrative writes what to believe. We can't wait until the facts say George Floyd was wrongly murdered (likely, but the legal system needs to decide) and too many people ignore that Mike Brown was found the aggressor

We no longer take facts in the matter because "Hands Up Don't Shoot", meant to never happened with Michael Brown yet almost everyone thinks he said that and people shout it at every protest. And people then went out and executed cops in many places because reacting before understanding the facts.

Other black people have died because wrong decisions by cops and sheer stupidity, and it is wrong, happnes to white preople too. What is it by demographics? Is it outsized then too?

The vast majority of everyone thinks that

Of course MSNBC did. There is also a common thread since yesterday that the cops in Kenosha were giving the shooter water because

I am not buying your insanity, there is a difference.

"Other black people have died because wrong decisions by cops and sheer stupidity, and it is wrong, happnes to white preople too. What is it by demographics? Is it outsized then too?"

According to the National Academy of Sciences...if you look at the number of actual unarmed people killed by police by race...

if you compare that to national %s of race, it happens to blacks disproportionately.

If you compare it to the % of race that live in big cities (where most of these encounters happen), it's not disproportionate.

The entire democratic party, including all the liberals here and in the media, are acting no differently than Al Sharpton did at his worst. As soon as we hear there is an encounter, we scream racist assassination, before we know any facts. Facts don't matter. Winning in November matters. That's all that matters.

Pete F.

08-28-2020, 09:42 AM

Jim in CT

08-28-2020, 09:47 AM

Tweety's re-election strategy seems to be to argue that only Donald Trump can save America from Donald Trump’s America.

It's like if I’m at a restaurant and I ask for them to send over the not yet hired manager so I can complain about the lousy service I’m getting. Confusing, right? It makes as much sense as the Republicans somehow trying to blame Biden for the mess Trump’s made of the country.

https://www.keepamericagreat.com/

what you fail to see through your fog of insanity, is that pre covid, most americans were better off than before trumps first day. now not all of that is due to him obviously. but as 2019 came to a close, america felt peaceful ( in terms of threats from jihadists at least) and certainly prosperous.

why wouldn’t trump remind people
of that, and warn them that biden is likely to give back some of the gains we made? for sure biden wants to raise taxes dramatically. not sure i like tax hikes when we’re not nearly recovered from the pandemic.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

spence

08-28-2020, 10:29 AM

According to the National Academy of Sciences...if you look at the number of actual unarmed people killed by police by race...

if you compare that to national %s of race, it happens to blacks disproportionately.

If you compare it to the % of race that live in big cities (where most of these encounters happen), it's not disproportionate.
What about the unarmed black people like Jacob Blake that aren't killed? What about the unarmed black people who are pulled over, detained, searched, unjustly convicted etc... etc... etc...

You keep trying to misuse stats to deny anything is wrong. This is what this is all about.

Pete F.

08-28-2020, 11:09 AM

what you fail to see through your fog of insanity, is that pre covid, most americans were better off than before trumps first day. now not all of that is due to him obviously. but as 2019 came to a close, america felt peaceful ( in terms of threats from jihadists at least) and certainly prosperous.

why wouldn’t trump remind people
of that, and warn them that biden is likely to give back some of the gains we made? for sure biden wants to raise taxes dramatically. not sure i like tax hikes when we’re not nearly recovered from the pandemic.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

What you fail to see is that our suffering for Trump’s failures is just beginning. We have lost more than half a year, Trillions of our treasure and 180,000+ lives, squandered by his incompetence. Not just incompetence, but incompetence in the pursuit of his personal interests over the needs of this country.
The last presidency capably brought us out of the Great Recession, that recovery lasted until what will likely be known as the Trump Depression. Trump, thanks to high deficits in his first two full years in office followed by massive federal expenditures aimed at offsetting the economic effects of the coronavirus crisis, is on pace to add more to the national debt in his first term than Obama. But I'm sure Tweety will claim that he will cut taxes if reelected.

My daughter lives in Paris, and in Europe the joke is Where's stupid? It's right between Canada and Mexico
The whole world is laughing at us

Jim in CT

08-28-2020, 11:10 AM

What about the unarmed black people like Jacob Blake that aren't killed? What about the unarmed black people who are pulled over, detained, searched, unjustly convicted etc... etc... etc...

You keep trying to misuse stats to deny anything is wrong. This is what this is all about.

Is anyone saying we shouldn't investigate? But let's get the facts first, before we decide it was nothing more than a racist assassination.

They tried tasing the guy, they gave him god knows how many lawful orders to comply. They didn't walk up behind him and shoot him in the back of the head.

If he had allowed them to arrest him without resisting, what do you think the chances are that he would have been shot?

Interesting you call him unarmed, when we now know there was a knife in the car, and he was trying to get into the car, so could well have been going for the knife. Also, if he gets in the car behind the wheel, he is no longer unarmed.

Always, put the most pro-liberal spin on everything. Always.

How about the cops who get assassinated for being cops? Have you ever, once, posted about them?

Jim in CT

08-28-2020, 11:11 AM

What you fail to see is that our suffering for Trump’s failures is just beginning. We have lost more than half a year, Trillions of our treasure and 180,000+ lives, squandered by his incompetence. Not just incompetence, but incompetence in the pursuit of his personal interests over the needs of this country.
The last presidency capably brought us out of the Great Recession, that recovery lasted until what will likely be known as the Trump Depression. Trump, thanks to high deficits in his first two full years in office followed by massive federal expenditures aimed at offsetting the economic effects of the coronavirus crisis, is on pace to add more to the national debt in his first term than Obama. But I'm sure Tweety will claim that he will cut taxes if reelected.

My daughter lives in Paris, and in Europe the joke is Where's stupid? It's right between Canada and Mexico
The whole world is laughing at us

Yes, let's design all of our public policy, so that the French like us.

Pete F.

08-28-2020, 11:41 AM

You think it's just the French

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88zu3vvVioY

:rotflmao:

Got Stripers

08-28-2020, 12:43 PM

By skin it is not fair treatment of the law - we have not reached fairness yet, and fully. Black people are proportionally targeted higher than others - it is not right and it is not fair. If the guy had a record or he beat his wife or had a rape charge, DV history, Assault with weapons charges can and SHOULD be a metric. Blowing up and defunding the entire system is not the answer.

But we don't know if the guy was reaching for something, clearly you are with the not other factors mattering or determined by investigation.

We are not having the conversation on what will really make strides to fix the system, we have people wanting to tear everything down because that will somehow be better - what a stupid effing thing to believe.

We are not trying to get where facts dictate what happened we are where narrative writes what to believe. We can't wait until the facts say George Floyd was wrongly murdered (likely, but the legal system needs to decide) and too many people ignore that Mike Brown was found the aggressor

We no longer take facts in the matter because "Hands Up Don't Shoot", meant to never happened with Michael Brown yet almost everyone thinks he said that and people shout it at every protest. And people then went out and executed cops in many places because reacting before understanding the facts.

Other black people have died because wrong decisions by cops and sheer stupidity, and it is wrong, happnes to white preople too. What is it by demographics? Is it outsized then too?

The vast majority of everyone thinks that

Of course MSNBC did. There is also a common thread since yesterday that the cops in Kenosha were giving the shooter water because

I am not buying your insanity, there is a difference.

MSNBC didn’t stage those videos, but they clearly showed a radical difference on how those cops were handling the arrest of two mass murderers, one clearly a physical threat, but hey poor cops being profiled for shooting a black man 7 fing times in the back. Chit at my age and no training I could have taken that guy to the ground and you expect me to believe two cops can’t handle that better. Call BS!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Jim in CT

08-28-2020, 01:07 PM

You think it's just the French

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88zu3vvVioY

:rotflmao:

Are Russia and Syria thriving more than we are? What is your point, exactly?

Pete F.

08-28-2020, 01:45 PM

Are Russia and Syria thriving more than we are? What is your point, exactly?

Everyone knows that Tweety is an ineffectual joke, those guys love what he's doing to America's position in the world

detbuch

08-28-2020, 01:55 PM

Everyone knows that Tweety is an ineffectual joke, those guys love what he's doing to America's position in the world

Another one of your conspiracy theories.

Pete F.

08-28-2020, 02:10 PM

spence

08-28-2020, 02:17 PM

RickBomba

08-28-2020, 02:23 PM

Hang him.

Sorry, that’s a capital crime.

Fry him.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

JohnR

08-28-2020, 04:34 PM

What about the unarmed black people like Jacob Blake that aren't killed? What about the unarmed black people who are pulled over, detained, searched, unjustly convicted etc... etc... etc...

You keep trying to misuse stats to deny anything is wrong. This is what this is all about.

There are reports for that that the State and Attorney General get uploaded every few days. Every stop collects race data.

A 17 year old heard the message. He lived in Indiana. He sat in the front row of a Trump rally. He heard it all. He took it all in. He was poisoned by it. He was converted by it. He was radicalized by Trumpism the same way young men in the Middle East are radicalized by extremism.

Kinda like the Sex Offender radicalized by the other side. Huh.

I want to see where a minor got an AR. There could be others liable.

Prepare for more of this.

Rare point of agreement.

Hang him.

Sorry, that’s a capital crime.

Fry him.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

No, dumbazz, jury trial, like everyone else.

spence

08-28-2020, 06:05 PM

There are reports for that that the State and Attorney General get uploaded every few days. Every stop collects race data.
But does this get rolled up nationally? I didn't think this was a requirement.

JohnR

08-29-2020, 07:23 AM

But does this get rolled up nationally? I didn't think this was a requirement.

It is a State issue and responsibility. Fed/DOJ can ask for this data as well, but it is up to states.

TheSpecialist

08-30-2020, 04:06 PM

zimmy

08-30-2020, 04:44 PM

So all of you BLM supporters, is this what you are supporting? I mean lets be honest here are these people getting a point across, even the woman a protestor knows the difference , or are people getting sick of it, and saying no more....

https://www.mrcolionnoir.com/kenosha-wisconsin-footage-the-media-doesnt-want-you-to-see-compilation/?fbclid=IwAR2eZbHMEWf9ilnCeC9BJpKUmN-JELqH1PntsaSvLKsKynGHs7Dn2XFQvkw
Far less then you support the illegally armed teen murdering people in the streets, or the Cliven Bundy criminals, or the criminal behavior of the huge number of people that have gone through his white house, I am sure. Likely the charlottsville crowd too. The j.a. in the white house loves all of them too.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

wdmso

08-30-2020, 05:02 PM

Far less then you support the illegally armed teen murdering people in the streets, or the Cliven Bundy criminals, or the criminal behavior of the huge number of people that have gone through his white house, I am sure.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Look at Portland death last night .. counter protesters ya ok if they weren't rolling in with Trump flags .. I dont see BLM or other protesters waving Biden Flags Socialist flags or any other agenda then having police stop killing civilians

And again separate the rioters from normal protesters..

Where else in the world do milita groups operate in support of presidents not good places

https://www.lawfareblog.com/armed-militias-are-taking-trumps-civil-war-tweets-seriously

Dated Oct 2 2019

March 15th. 2019. Trump said: "I can tell you I have the support of the police, the support of the military, the support of the Bikers for Trump – I have the tough people, but they don’t play it tough — until they go to a certain point, and then it would be very bad, very bad."

Hes been setting the table since then and now he'll go to Wisconsin and light the candles. Aka fuse

But hes no authoritarian :faga:

spence

08-30-2020, 05:06 PM

You raise a good point. People are showing the Tump flags like he's a paramilitary leader, not like he's POTUS defending the US Constitution. This is really a cause for concern.

Got Stripers

08-30-2020, 05:19 PM

Just kick the crap out of him and I will pay his lawyer bills, if people didn’t see this coming they are living in the dark with no TV, internet or radio. This MF is leading this nation in a very dangerous direction, even if you don’t like the positions of the left, are you ready for what our four fathers fought hard to get away from. Long live the king?

nightfighter

08-30-2020, 06:54 PM

“To everyone instigating a possible civil war from all sides, let me give you a little bit of advice. Many of us served and fought in the wars. When our time was done, we came back to the USA to start over and live in peace. It wasn’t us who kneeled on the neck of a man until he died. It wasn’t us to retaliate by kneeling on the neck of a toddler saying “BLM NOW mf.”
You see, War is hell. Millions of you do not quite grasp this concept. We have been to hell, lived in hell, climbed out of hell, and don’t want to go back to hell. If you keep trampling on the peace we fought for, earned and love, then when that first shot gets fired, you will force us back to hell; and we will show you the brutal realities of hell.
Y’all better work this #^&#^&#^&#^& out before we do, because I guarantee you are not ready for this."

Not mine.... but I can't find anything to disagree with here...

Pete F.

08-30-2020, 07:28 PM

When I saw the pickups with flags and people with guns, I wondered if it was Y’All Queda, or Vanilla ISIS?
It sure looks the same
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

The Dad Fisherman

08-30-2020, 08:30 PM

zimmy

08-30-2020, 08:54 PM

No arguments here.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

And why there is nothing more important for the future of this country than getting the childish inflamer out of the white house.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

PaulS

08-31-2020, 07:07 AM

It seemed redundant to have both the confederate flag and the Trump flag on those pickups.

Pete F.

08-31-2020, 11:35 AM

Charles Manson never actually murdered anyone. He just held rallies where he encouraged his followers to be violent.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

wdmso

08-31-2020, 12:32 PM

Trump Praises Counter Protesters as "Great Patriots" Following Deadly Demonstrations

But. He's not an Authoritarian..
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Jim in CT

08-31-2020, 07:42 PM

Pete F.

08-31-2020, 10:18 PM

Jim in CT

09-01-2020, 07:03 AM

A 17 year old heard the message. He lived in Indiana. He sat in the front row of a Trump rally. He heard it all. He took it all in. He was poisoned by it. He was converted by it. He was radicalized by Trumpism the same way young men in the Middle East are radicalized by extremism
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

he was “converted” by trump? you’re a mind reader now? you know what his thoughts were before and after?

you’re getting really scared now, aren’t you pete? this kind of insane desperation is rooted in terror.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

PaulS

09-01-2020, 07:57 AM

Rittenhouse must be guilty, because he has been declared guilty, by the same
people who said Darren Wilson was guilty, and the Duke lacrosse players, and Nick Samdman.

Right?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Right.

And the many of 1,000s of people wrongly convicted must be bc of some sort of mental flaw in the conserv. police who hide evidence or lie.

Jim in CT

09-01-2020, 08:11 AM

Right.

And the many of 1,000s of people wrongly convicted must be bc of some sort of mental flaw in the conserv. police who hide evidence or lie.

My point, and you are beyond smart enough to have know it, is that trials by media are a bad thing. Just in the last few years we have seen how catastrophic they can be for people whose lives are ruined yet did nothing wrong.

So why can't we all just say "this was a tragedy, let's get the facts and go from there."

And obviously both sides do it Paul, I'm not saying it's only one side. But 95% of the media has a liberal bias. So it's not exactly 50-50 either, especially when it comes to race.

It's a really bad idea. All of the riots in Ferguson, were based on a lie. A teenager named Nick Sandman was crucified in the media, based on a lie.

As to your specific post, police officers don't convict people. Juries do.

Pete F.

09-01-2020, 08:14 AM

To be clear, MAGA lunatics literally call terrorist Kyle Rittenhouse their hero after murdering two people, but hate Colin Kaepernick for taking a knee during the anthem and NBA players for bringing awareness to racial injustice and police brutality. Says it all.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Jim in CT

09-01-2020, 08:15 AM

It seemed redundant to have both the confederate flag and the Trump flag on those pickups.

Ha ha ha, that's funny, please stop my stomach hurts.

Trump ushered in lowest black unemployment ever, and celebrated that fact at the SOTU while all the democrats sat there miserable.

Trump spearheaded criminal justice reform, which I don't happen to like but which nonetheless disproportionately helps blacks.

Trump worked with Senator Tim Scott (who is black), to create "economic opportunity zones" in impoverished urban areas, to incentivize businesses to invest there.

Trump is a huge proponent of school choice.

Are those the acts of a Klansman?

PaulS

09-01-2020, 08:26 AM

My point, and you are beyond smart enough to have know it, is that trials by media are a bad thing. Just in the last few years we have seen how catastrophic they can be for people whose lives are ruined yet did nothing wrong.

So why can't we all just say "this was a tragedy, let's get the facts and go from there."

And obviously both sides do it Paul, I'm not saying it's only one side. But 95% of the media has a liberal bias. So it's not exactly 50-50 either, especially when it comes to race.

It's a really bad idea. All of the riots in Ferguson, were based on a lie. A teenager named Nick Sandman was crucified in the media, based on a lie.

As to your specific post, police officers don't convict people. Juries do.

juries convict people based on the evidence. If the (conserv.) police lie/withhold evidence isn't that the same type of bias (actually much worse) you're complaining about?

PaulS

09-01-2020, 08:29 AM

Ha ha ha, that's funny, please stop my stomach hurts.It is actually pretty sad that so many racists who fly the confed. flag are Trump supporters. As an actuary don't you think that it is credible to say that the vast majority of people who fly the confed. flag are racists and that the vast majority of the people who fly confed. flags also support Trump

Trump ushered in lowest black unemployment ever, and celebrated that fact at the SOTU while all the democrats sat there miserable.

Trump spearheaded criminal justice reform, which I don't happen to like but which nonetheless disproportionately helps blacks.

Trump worked with Senator Tim Scott (who is black), to create "economic opportunity zones" in impoverished urban areas, to incentivize businesses to invest there.

Trump is a huge proponent of school choice.

Are those the acts of a Klansman?

He has done more for Blacks than anyone since Lincoln! My stomach hurts.

So what exactly did Trump do that impacted Black unemployment that didn't impact non- Black unemployment?

Scott - One of the few Black Repubs. I guess you pointed it out to show that the Repubs. can't be racist bc there is a few Blacks in the party.

Pete F.

09-01-2020, 09:06 AM

Ha ha ha, that's funny, please stop my stomach hurts.

Trump ushered in lowest black unemployment ever, and celebrated that fact at the SOTU while all the democrats sat there miserable.

If you want to be stupid, don't forget that the republicans dared to sit at the SOTU when Obama was president and he is black.
Black unemployment reached a record low during the Trump administration, 5.4% in August, as the longest economic expansion in history pressed ahead.

Most of the progress came when Barack Obama was president: Black unemployment dropped from a recession high of 16.8% in March 2010 to 7.8% in January 2017. Improvement continued under Trump until the pandemic. Black unemployment reached 16.8% in May, compared with 13.3% for the overall population.

Not all economic measures improved for African Americans under Trump before the pandemic. A black household earned median income of $41,361 in 2018, the latest data available. That’s below a 2000 peak of $43,380, according to the Census Bureau.

Trump spearheaded criminal justice reform, which I don't happen to like but which nonetheless disproportionately helps blacks.
Restricted clemency to only those who are celebrities, well-connected individuals, or have a personal affiliation with the president
Encouraged the use of excessive police force on peaceful Black Lives Matter protestors
Threatened maximum sentences for vandalism of monuments
Restarted federal executions after a 17-year informal moratorium on federal capital punishment
Secretly altered the risk assessment authorized in the FIRST Step Act to drastically reduce the number of federally incarcerated people eligible to be released to subdue the spread of COVID-19
Denied federal coronavirus relief funding to small business owners with a criminal record
Argued in court against people eligible for sentence reductions under the FIRST STEP Act
Jeopardized the FIRST STEP Act by underfunding its programs
Reinstated DOJ contracts with private prisons
Left director of the Bureau of Prisons position vacant for more than a year
Disbanded a program to create federal prison education systems13
Closed halfway houses that help those incarcerated transition back to the community
Prohibited federal investigations of patterns of unconstitutional policin
Stopped assistance to police departments that voluntarily wanted reform
Eliminated restrictions preventing police departments from obtaining military equipment
Eliminated community-based violence prevention programs
Condemned public criticism of police by threatening that protestors “might find themselves without the protection they need”
Eliminated DOJ community policing program grants in proposed executive budget
Attacked prosecutors who are pursuing criminal justice reform in their communitites
Proposed to eliminate a DOJ office dedicated to help communities reduce racial conflict
Rescinded federal guidance meant to stem the flow of the school to prison pipeline
Ordered federal prosecutors to pursue the harshest punishments possible
Threatened federal prosecutions for marijuana in states where it is legal
Attempted to resume use of the federal death penalty and encouraged expansion of the death penalty in drug cases
Waged the same failed war on drugs from the 80s
Attempted to force federal job candidates to disclose participation in diversion programs28
Expanded the federal use of civil asset forfeiture
Suspended the national forensic science commission
Failed to report on deaths in police custody as required by Congress
Disbanded the DOJ Science Advisory Board that provided evidence-based rigor to DOJ policies
Rescinded DOJ guidance that warned courts against excessive fees and fines

Trump worked with Senator Tim Scott (who is black), to create "economic opportunity zones" in impoverished urban areas, to incentivize businesses to invest there.

That's politics and so is this:U.S. Sen. Tim Scott said President Donald Trump focused on “the wrong numbers” when he claimed this week that “more white people” die at the hands of police.

As the only Black Republican in the Senate and who also led his party’s efforts on police reform, Scott said there is no denying the disparities faced by people of color when it comes to policing.

“The facts are very simple. If you’re an African American male, you are 2.5 times more likely to be shot by police, killed by police, than someone who is white,” Scott said during a press availability in Charleston.

Trump is a huge proponent of school choice.

Not everyone is and that is why it has not become the norm no matter how much DeVos has spent to push it.

Are those the acts of a Klansman?

Actually he's the son of a Klansman

Jim in CT

09-01-2020, 09:27 AM

He has done more for Blacks than anyone since Lincoln! My stomach hurts.

So what exactly did Trump do that impacted Black unemployment that didn't impact non- Black unemployment?

Scott - One of the few Black Repubs. I guess you pointed it out to show that the Repubs. can't be racist bc there is a few Blacks in the party.

I completely agree most common racists are Trump supporters. Shows how stupid they are, because Trump has done a lot for blacks.

"He has done more for Blacks than anyone since Lincoln! My stomach hurts"

I never said that. I quoted you. You responded, as beaten liberals always do, with "but Trump".

But he has done an awful lot for blacks.

"So what exactly did Trump do that impacted Black unemployment that didn't impact non- Black unemployment?"

(1) a rising tide lifts all boats. Black unemployment had more room to decrease.

(2) he created the economic opportunity zones with Senator Tim Scott. Disproportionately helps blacks.

Your response?

Jim in CT

09-01-2020, 09:32 AM

Actually he's the son of a Klansman

How much made up stuff was in that response? Gibberish and dodging.

You're terror is showing Pete. I don't know why, I still think he gets creamed. Doesn't force me to let go of reality.

Jim: Trump helped create economic opportunity zones.

Pete: more blacks get pulled over by the police!

Not sure what one has to do with the other, big guy.

Pete F.

09-01-2020, 09:41 AM

Simple, both are Senator Scott
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Jim in CT

09-01-2020, 09:52 AM

Simple, both are Senator Scott
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

So if Senator Scott claims blacks get pulled over too often (which is true), that means it's not possible that Trump helped him create economic opportunity zones in urban areas?

Again, makes all kinds of sense Pete.

Jim in CT

09-01-2020, 09:53 AM

Simple, both are Senator Scott
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Jim: Trump helped Senator Scott create economic opportunity zones in urban areas, incentivizing businesses to invest there.

Pete: No, because Senator Scott knows how it feels to be pulled over by police without justification.

Yes Pete, a withering rebuttal.

PaulS

09-01-2020, 10:07 AM

I completely agree most common racists are Trump supporters. Shows how stupid they are, because Trump has done a lot for blacks.

"He has done more for Blacks than anyone since Lincoln! My stomach hurts"

I never said that. I quoted you. You responded, as beaten liberals always do, with "but Trump".I never claimed you said that. So you responded as an angry person - as you always do. You can't help yourself - you're a vile angry person.
But he has done an awful lot for blacks.

"So what exactly did Trump do that impacted Black unemployment that didn't impact non- Black unemployment?"

(1) a rising tide lifts all boats. Black unemployment had more room to decrease.

(2) he created the economic opportunity zones with Senator Tim Scott. Disproportionately helps blacks.

Your response?

Rising tide lifts all boats means he really did nothing specifically for Blacks.

The opportunity zones provided some benefit for residents but was funded by the wealthiest Americans.

Neither of those does that much for Blacks vs Lincoln.

Pete F.

09-01-2020, 10:12 AM

There’s no way to prove that the tax break for wealthy investors who buy a stake in a business or property in the zones has created jobs or helped minority businessowners. The federal government chose not to collect information on projects attracting investments in the more than 8,700 zones, leaving policymakers and advocacy groups to rely on anecdotes and self-reporting.

But critics have long said the tax break, which encourages building in designated low-income communities, may end up accelerating gentrification and that it’s unlikely to help Black businessowners.

detbuch

09-01-2020, 10:23 AM

But hes no authoritarian :faga:

Who said he's not an authoritarian? It is a part of human nature to have authoritarian tendencies. We are all potential authoritarians. Even the notion of individual liberty is ingrained in the belief that a person has the authority to dictate the governance of his own life--has the natural (or God given) "agency" to direct his fortune.

The problem with our authoritarian tendencies is when they are unjustly imposed on the lives of others.

Parents are normally authoritarian in the raising of their children. For the most part we accept that this is justified.

Owners are authoritarian in the operation of their business. For the most part we accept this as justified.

We accept as right that military commanders have tremendous authoritarian power over their soldiers.

When we speak of authoritarianism in politics, we mean a politician's use of power that is not legally his, which is an unjust use of authority. With politicians, unfortunately, but predictably, this happens often. Usually it's the common seemingly unstoppable petty corruption that is often allowed by the people when they view their politician as someone, even if corrupt, who will make their lives better.

When political authoritarianism is most onerous, even dangerous to the notion of individual freedom, to personal agency, is when the political system itself is authoritarian. There is no remedy to this for the individual other than disobedience or revolt.

When a governmental system is crafted, by the consent of the governed, to limit political authority to the least oppressive but necessary functions in order to maintain stability and harmony, governing authorities are limited only to the powers the system grants them. The most dangerous threat to individual freedom in such a system is its destruction and its replacement with one that grants total authoritarian power of the ruling regime over the people--which is far more destructive to liberty than the personality of a given politician, even one of the highest rank.

Those who seek political office may well have more of a desire, than most, to have authority over others. So it is most important to assure that the system of governance limits them to the agreed upon and fewest powers necessary.

There is wisdom in such platitudes or slogans such as "don't hate the player, hate the game." It's what the game allows more than what the player does within the rules that is the problem.

What has been happening over the course of a century is the government "game" has been changing. This game has incrementally been changed from one of limited government to one of growing government power with a vector toward unlimited government.

This election, as have been most over this last century, is about the nature of the "game," not the character of the player.

The government "game" started as a constitutional republic with very limited central government power, and has gradually, continously, been transformed into one of unlimited government power.

The basic nature of Progressivism, the "game" into which we are being made to play, is the unhampered (unlimited) power of government to govern our behavior. The stated intention is that this is all for the good of the people.

That may be so. Personally, I believe the intention, no matter how sincere, cannot withstand the force of human nature. We are all potential authoritarians. Given the legal authority, it is inevitable that the "players" in the Progressive game will rule us to be what they want, rather than the "game" allowing us to be whom we wish.

This election, as much as, if not more, is about the game we wish to play--limited constitutional government, or an unlimited Progressive one.

Pete F.

09-01-2020, 10:49 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOQa7XyWNjk

TheSpecialist

09-01-2020, 11:07 AM

Far less then you support the illegally armed teen murdering people in the streets, or the Cliven Bundy criminals, or the criminal behavior of the huge number of people that have gone through his white house, I am sure. Likely the charlottsville crowd too. The j.a. in the white house loves all of them too.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

His lawyer is going to pick apart any charges... He works in Kenosha as a lifeguard. He was working in Kenosha that day. He went with a friend after work to clean graffiti off of a public building. In the process of graphiti removal, they received a call for help protecting a mechanics shop owned a man who car dealership was destroyed the night before. Someone in Kenosha gave him the rifle, and according to his lawyer he is not a prohibited because it is not a Short Barreled Rifle, or sawed off shotgun, and Wisconsin is an open carry state. Every chronology of video evidence shows that this was self defense, including an interview with a reporter who was interviewing him , before he was chased, and was there when the first guy was shot.. Everything the reporter has detailed to police shows that the first guy was trying to take the rifle, for no reason other than he thought he was a tough guy who could get one over on a younger person.

Mark this post, that kid is getting off, with at most a misdemeanor

Jim in CT

09-01-2020, 11:14 AM

Rising tide lifts all boats means he really did nothing specifically for Blacks.

The opportunity zones provided some benefit for residents but was funded by the wealthiest Americans.

Neither of those does that much for Blacks vs Lincoln.

The economic opportunity zones, disproportionately help blacks. Criminal justice reform, disproportionately helps blacks. School choice, disproportionately helps blacks. Which of those statements is false?

Paul, ask your self this. Would you be this resistive to giving the president credit for helping blacks, if Hilary had won and had the same exact results as Trump? Or would you be saying she deserves the Nobel Prize?

I don't like Trump as a person. But nevertheless, until we shut ourselves down by choice, blacks were way better off than they were on his first day. Obama deserves some credit for that. Trump deserves some credit for that.

I'm sorry you don't like those facts. Facts don't care about you feelings towards Trump.

Jim in CT

09-01-2020, 11:17 AM

His lawyer is going to pick apart any charges... He works in Kenosha as a lifeguard. He was working in Kenosha that day. He went with a friend after work to clean graffiti off of a public building. In the process of graphiti removal, they received a call for help protecting a mechanics shop owned a man who car dealership was destroyed the night before. Someone in Kenosha gave him the rifle, and according to his lawyer he is not a prohibited because it is not a Short Barreled Rifle, or sawed off shotgun, and Wisconsin is an open carry state. Every chronology of video evidence shows that this was self defense, including an interview with a reporter who was interviewing him , before he was chased, and was there when the first guy was shot.. Everything the reporter has detailed to police shows that the first guy was trying to take the rifle, for no reason other than he thought he was a tough guy who could get one over on a younger person.

Mark this post, that kid is getting off, with at most a misdemeanor

I have seen all this info. If it's all true, you may well be right. At a minimum, once again, this event was more complicated than the leftist mob spun it as. Once again, the left went nuts without having the facts, and once again, looks like they have egg on their faces. They never learn to wait for the facts, they are not capable of waiting for the facts, not if there's political capital to gain.

zimmy

09-01-2020, 11:41 AM

Pete F.

09-01-2020, 11:59 AM

1. The economic opportunity zones, disproportionately help blacks.
Black Businesses Largely Miss Out on Opportunity Zone Money
https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2020/06/24/black-businesses-largely-miss-out-on-opportunity-zone-money

2. criminal justice reform, disproportionately helps blacks.
That is one plus, here are some of the minuses.
Restricted clemency to only those who are celebrities, well-connected individuals, or have a personal affiliation with the president

Restarted federal executions after a 17-year informal moratorium on federal capital punishment

Secretly altered the risk assessment authorized in the FIRST Step Act to drastically reduce the number of federally incarcerated people eligible to be released to subdue the spread of COVID-19

Denied federal coronavirus relief funding to small business owners with a criminal record

Argued in court against people eligible for sentence reductions under the FIRST STEP Act

Jeopardized the FIRST STEP Act by underfunding its programs

Reinstated DOJ contracts with private prisons

Disbanded a program to create federal prison education systems

Closed halfway houses that help those incarcerated transition back to the community

Prohibited federal investigations of patterns of unconstitutional policing

Stopped assistance to police departments that voluntarily wanted reform

Eliminated restrictions preventing police departments from obtaining military equipment

Eliminated community-based violence prevention programs

Condemned public criticism of police by threatening that protestors “might find themselves without the protection they need”

Eliminated DOJ community policing program grants in proposed executive budget

Attacked prosecutors who are pursuing criminal justice reform in their communities

Ordered federal prosecutors to pursue the harshest punishments possible

Attempted to resume use of the federal death penalty and encouraged expansion of the death penalty in drug cases

Waged the same failed war on drugs from the 80s

Attempted to force federal job candidates to disclose participation in diversion programs

Failed to report on deaths in police custody as required by Congress

Disbanded the DOJ Science Advisory Board that provided evidence-based rigor to DOJ policies

3. School choice, disproportionately helps blacks.
That's quite a claim to make, do you have any supporting evidence or did you just hear that from Tucker?

Jim in CT

09-01-2020, 12:03 PM

Jim in CT

09-01-2020, 12:05 PM

1.

3. School choice, disproportionately helps blacks.
That's quite a claim to make, do you have any supporting evidence or did you just hear that from Tucker?

You're seriously denying this?

Try to follow along, I'll try to use small words...

Rich people don't need school choice, they can afford to send their kids to great schools.

Rich people are disproportionately white.

So, people who aren't that rich, are disproportionately black.

The worst schools are in poor, urban areas, which are disproportionately inhabited by blacks (thanks to liberalism).

I tried to use mostly monosyllabic words. If it's still going too fast for you, I can try to make it into a pop-up book.

Pete F.

09-01-2020, 12:16 PM

You're seriously denying this?

Try to follow along, I'll try to use small words...

Rich people don't need school choice, they can afford to send their kids to great schools.

Rich people are disproportionately white.

So, people who aren't that rich, are disproportionately black.

The worst schools are in poor, urban areas, which are disproportionately inhabited by blacks (thanks to liberalism).

I tried to use mostly monosyllabic words. If it's still going too fast for you, I can try to make it into a pop-up book.

So using small words makes what you think true, now I understand why you believe in Tweety.

spence

09-01-2020, 12:17 PM

You're seriously denying this?

Try to follow along, I'll try to use small words...

Rich people don't need school choice, they can afford to send their kids to great schools.

Rich people are disproportionately white.

So, people who aren't that rich, are disproportionately black.

The worst schools are in poor, urban areas, which are disproportionately inhabited by blacks (thanks to liberalism).

I tried to use mostly monosyllabic words. If it's still going too fast for you, I can try to make it into a pop-up book.
There are plenty of poor white people also. If you're poor getting a tax incentive for paying for private school isn't really going to compute. It would possibly help some in the middle class and be a handout to the rich unless it's phased out by income.

Jim in CT

09-01-2020, 12:21 PM

There are plenty of poor white people also. If you're poor getting a tax incentive for paying for private school isn't really going to compute. It would possibly help some in the middle class and be a handout to the rich unless it's phased out by income.

i said poor people are disproportionately black. is that true, or is that false?

i never said there are zero poor white people. that again, was biden, who said poor kids are just as smart as white kids.

Poor people are disproportionately black. is that true, or is it false?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

spence

09-01-2020, 12:25 PM

Poor people are disproportionately black. is that true, or is it false?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
It would be more accurate to say that poor people are disproportionately in minority groups.

Pete F.

09-01-2020, 12:25 PM

Your statements about "why blacks" are showing just who you are, Tweety's target audience, a suburban housewife

"You know who's going to be in charge of it? Cory Booker. That's going to be nice" -- Trump is barely trying to conceal his racism

Cory Booker, Stanford graduate, Rhodes scholar, Yale Law Graduate, all-around nice guy who once saved a woman from a burning building.
Maybe he tells too many dad jokes. But guessing most Americans would sure as heck rather have Cory as neighbor than one of the Trumps.

Elizabeth Kneebone, a fellow at the Metropolitan Policy Program at the Brookings Institution, looked at numbers from the 2010 to 2014 American Community Survey and found that 39 percent of African Americans live in the suburbs, 36 percent live in cities, 15 percent live in small metropolitan areas, and 10 percent live in rural communities. That’s a noticeable shift from 2000, when 41 percent of African Americans lived in cities, 33 percent lived in suburbs, 15 percent lived in small metro areas, and 11 percent lived in rural communities.

spence

09-01-2020, 12:27 PM

His lawyer is going to pick apart any charges... He works in Kenosha as a lifeguard. He was working in Kenosha that day. He went with a friend after work to clean graffiti off of a public building. In the process of graphiti removal, they received a call for help protecting a mechanics shop owned a man who car dealership was destroyed the night before. Someone in Kenosha gave him the rifle, and according to his lawyer he is not a prohibited because it is not a Short Barreled Rifle, or sawed off shotgun, and Wisconsin is an open carry state. Every chronology of video evidence shows that this was self defense, including an interview with a reporter who was interviewing him , before he was chased, and was there when the first guy was shot.. Everything the reporter has detailed to police shows that the first guy was trying to take the rifle, for no reason other than he thought he was a tough guy who could get one over on a younger person.

Mark this post, that kid is getting off, with at most a misdemeanor
You can't carry a firearm in WI at 17 unless you are hunting. A friend gave it to him which could lead to accessory charges. You also can't shoot someone just because they might be about to or are damaging property.

The homicide charges are extremely serious, I don't think a self defense claim is going to fly when you intentionally put yourself in the situation with a weapon. It will be interesting to see if the can conclusively prove what led to the first shooting. Expect his social media activity to get a lot of scrutiny.

His defense should be I'm dumb, immature and listened to too much Trump.

Jim in CT

09-01-2020, 12:52 PM

It would be more accurate to say that poor people are disproportionately in minority groups.

Why is that "more accurate"? Are blacks one of the minority groups who make up a disproportionate share of those living in poverty?

Asians are a minority. I don't know if they are disproportionately living in poverty.

Jim in CT

09-01-2020, 12:54 PM

"You know who's going to be in charge of it? Cory Booker. That's going to be nice" -- Trump is barely trying to conceal his racism

Ah! criticizing Corey Booker is racist.

How about the liberal criticism of all the blacks who spoke at the RNC? Or Biden saying you ain't black if you ain't for him.

Pete F.

09-01-2020, 01:21 PM

Ah! criticizing Corey Booker is racist.

How about the liberal criticism of all the blacks who spoke at the RNC? Or Biden saying you ain't black if you ain't for him.

Use your big head and think about just what position in Biden's administration would Booker resign his Senate seat to take?

You want to talk about Tweety's Reality show?

25 were members of the Tweety's family or Tweety's administration, and 72 were white, reflecting the white membership of the Republican Party. After rounding up every African-American they could find willing to say anything nice about Tweety, the RNC featured 12 Blacks at the podium, 13 percent of speakers and four times the percentage of Blacks in the Republican Party.

Think of it this way: Most of the white speakers came armed with some agenda. They wanted more farm subsidies or fewer abortions or more Jesus in schools or the right to shoot Black people walking past their homes. But the Black speakers seemingly wanted nothing. There were no additional policies they desired or issues they wanted addressed. They had no goals they wanted the next Tweety administration to accomplish and no legislation they wanted Republicans to pass.

Instead of an agenda, the Black people were just there to say, “Thank you, white folks,” and fade off-screen. Most of the Black speakers had a specific story about how a white man helped them in their life: Tim Scott, for instance, spoke about a Chick-fil-A man who helped him pass high school. The ones who didn’t have nice white man to thank had to thank Tweety directly. Jon Ponder had both: He spoke about a white FBI agent who helped him turn his life around—and then, courtesy of a video recorded at the White House several hours earlier, the world got to see Tweety give him a “surprise” pardon.

Aimed directly at the suburban housewives, hit home with you apparently...........

detbuch

09-01-2020, 02:10 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOQa7XyWNjk

This is propaganda at its slick best. It's the way you roll.

wdmso

09-01-2020, 02:31 PM

His lawyer is going to pick apart any charges... He works in Kenosha as a lifeguard. He was working in Kenosha that day. He went with a friend after work to clean graffiti off of a public building. In the process of graphiti removal, they received a call for help protecting a mechanics shop owned a man who car dealership was destroyed the night before. Someone in Kenosha gave him the rifle, and according to his lawyer he is not a prohibited because it is not a Short Barreled Rifle, or sawed off shotgun, and Wisconsin is an open carry state. Every chronology of video evidence shows that this was self defense, including an interview with a reporter who was interviewing him , before he was chased, and was there when the first guy was shot.. Everything the reporter has detailed to police shows that the first guy was trying to take the rifle, for no reason other than he thought he was a tough guy who could get one over on a younger person.

Mark this post, that kid is getting off, with at most a misdemeanor

Sad you would support him as if it's a 2A . And self defense. Argument

Classics. Blame everyone but the guy who pulled the trigger that's a go to message from conservatives... from the women who got shot in a police raid. They blamed her for her boyfriend, or the boy who police shot in the park they blamed him for playing with a toy gun , the man who told police he had a gun and had a permit to carry , then shot by cop he told. The excuse he shouldn't have had it or he moved to fast
Man jogging shoot by 2 guys in a truck.. excuses he shouldn't have been in the neighborhood or in the construction site ..

Yea but god forbid you say this kid shouldn't have the gun or he shouldn't have been there

Or that shooti g someone in the back 7 times is excessive.. funny how that works

Jim in CT

09-01-2020, 02:40 PM

Think of it this way: Most of the white speakers came armed with some agenda. They wanted more farm subsidies or fewer abortions or more Jesus in schools or the right to shoot Black people walking past their homes. But the Black speakers seemingly wanted nothing. There were no additional policies they desired or issues they wanted addressed. They had no goals they wanted the next Tweety administration to accomplish and no legislation they wanted Republicans to pass.

.....

I saw that MSNBC went with this narrative. It's just not true. You're making it sound like they all had nothing more to add other than "I'm black, I'm here at the RNC, so Trump isn't racist".

The first TV spot at the RNC, was a very moving story of a black bank robber, pardoned by Trump, who is dedicating his lilfe to helping others He spoke very specifically of the support Trump has given him.

Tim Scott talked about the success of the economic opportunity zones.

The rising star AG of Kentucky destroyed Biden's notion that you ain't black if you ain't for him (I'd love to know your true opinion on Bidens statement there, which I know you'll never share).

The woman who got paroled from prison thanks to criiminal justice reform thanked Trump.

So if you're saying that unless someone says "I want this", they have nothing valid to say, I disagree with. I think showing regular people whose lives have been improved by his policies, is a very effective way to make the case. The polls seem to suggest a tightening of the race after the conventions. I don't think it will be enough. But I'm sure the conventions were a net benefit to Trump.

detbuch

09-01-2020, 03:01 PM

Sad you would support him as if it's a 2A . And self defense. Argument

Classics. Blame everyone but the guy who pulled the trigger that's a go to message from conservatives... from the women who got shot in a police raid. They blamed her for her boyfriend, or the boy who police shot in the park they blamed him for playing with a toy gun , the man who told police he had a gun and had a permit to carry , then shot by cop he told. The excuse he shouldn't have had it or he moved to fast
Man jogging shoot by 2 guys in a truck.. excuses he shouldn't have been in the neighborhood or in the construction site ..

Yea but god forbid you say this kid shouldn't have the gun or he shouldn't have been there

Or that shooti g someone in the back 7 times is excessive.. funny how that works

Don't recall of of the above, but in the boy with the toy gun, he wasn't "blamed," it was explained why the cops shot, the gun looked real. I'm sure, good man that you are, that if a kid pointed what looked like a real gun at you, you would just wait and see if he would intentionally or accidentally pull the trigger. As for the jogger and 2 guys in a truck, he had been filmed illegally trespassing the uninhabited home which was being repaired a few times before, and that various tools were missing afterwards, when he did it again, I believe an alarm went off, can't remember what the tip off was, or maybe someone observed him and called the two for assistance, they went to check it out, saw him and wanted to question him, but he tried to run away. They drove past him and parked waiting for him to get there. As he approached as if he would run past them on the road, he quickly turned to the passenger side of the truck as if he would run past them on that side, where, if I remember correctly, the younger man was waiting with his rifle, and the "jogger" attacked him and tried to wrestle the gun from him. That's why he was shot.

As far as the shooting in the back, the suspect was trying to get into his car after resisting arrest at which point, if he was allowed to enter he could come out with a gun or drive away and be a threat to the community. Not sure the cop counted how many times his gun was discharged. It was probably very quick with the intention of stopping the resister, whether it killed him or not. Again, you being a stand up really good person would have let him get into the car and see what would happen after that.

spence

09-01-2020, 04:55 PM

Don't recall of of the above, but in the boy with the toy gun, he wasn't "blamed," it was explained why the cops shot, the gun looked real. I'm sure, good man that you are, that if a kid pointed what looked like a real gun at you, you would just wait and see if he would intentionally or accidentally pull the trigger.
12 year old boy playing with an airsoft gun. Person who called the police said it was probably fake. Cops fly in and shoot him without nearly any dialogue. City pays 6m for the action.

He was shot because he was black.

As for the jogger and 2 guys in a truck, he had been filmed illegally trespassing the uninhabited home which was being repaired a few times before, and that various tools were missing afterwards, when he did it again, I believe an alarm went off, can't remember what the tip off was, or maybe someone observed him and called the two for assistance, they went to check it out, saw him and wanted to question him, but he tried to run away. They drove past him and parked waiting for him to get there. As he approached as if he would run past them on the road, he quickly turned to the passenger side of the truck as if he would run past them on that side, where, if I remember correctly, the younger man was waiting with his rifle, and the "jogger" attacked him and tried to wrestle the gun from him. That's why he was shot.
Wait, so he was shot *because* he was resisting someone who just chased him down and was threatening him with a rifle? This is a special kind of stupid.

He was out for a jog, he was shot because he was black.

As far as the shooting in the back, the suspect was trying to get into his car after resisting arrest at which point, if he was allowed to enter he could come out with a gun or drive away and be a threat to the community. Not sure the cop counted how many times his gun was discharged. It was probably very quick with the intention of stopping the resister, whether it killed him or not. Again, you being a stand up really good person would have let him get into the car and see what would happen after that.
Multiple cops on the scene can't stop a father with three kids so it's a death sentence? You don't put 7 rounds into someone to slow them down.

He was shot because he was black, and this is why they protest.

detbuch

09-01-2020, 05:17 PM

12 year old boy playing with an airsoft gun. Person who called the police said it was probably fake. Cops fly in and shoot him without nearly any dialogue. City pays 6m for the action.

He was shot because he was black.

The kid was pointing the gun at the police. The gun wasn't "black."

Wait, so he was shot *because* he was resisting someone who just chased him down and was threatening him with a rifle? This is a special kind of stupid.

He was out for a jog, he was shot because he was black.

His "jog," as it apparently was before, was temporarily delayed by the necessity of illegally trespassing on private property which had mysteriously (not so mysterious as shown by surveillance cameras in the property) had various tools periodically stolen.

If the men who responded to the illegal trespass had wanted to shoot the "jogger" because he was black, they didn't have to wait until he assaulted one of them and tried to take his gun. He could have been blown away with several shots as he approached or as he was followed, or as he was passed.

Or was it just more exciting, more of an adventure in the "kill the black man game," to wait until he could possibly disarm you and kill you first?

Multiple cops on the scene can't stop a father with three kids so it's a death sentence? You don't put 7 rounds into someone to slow them down.

He was shot because he was black, and this is why they protest.

Yeah that's it . . . intentionally let him escape your grasp so you can shoot him in the back while playing the "kill the black man game."

So when the cops kill white people, who they kill more than black people, are they killing them because they are white?

Pete F.

09-01-2020, 07:45 PM

Yeah that's it . . . intentionally let him escape your grasp so you can shoot him in the back while playing the "kill the black man game."

So when the cops kill white people, who they kill more than black people, are they killing them because they are white?

The facts are very simple. If you’re an African American male, you are 2.5 times more likely to be shot by police, killed by police, than someone who is white,” Scott said during a press availability in Charleston.

Police search black motorists 3x more than white motorists.

But (!), searches of black motorists don't yield more contraband.

Apparently those odds are acceptable to you as a white boy, put you in blackface and drop you off in Grosse Pointe on a dark and rainy night you will likely change your tune
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

detbuch

09-01-2020, 08:21 PM

The facts are very simple. If you’re an African American male, you are 2.5 times more likely to be shot by police, killed by police, than someone who is white,” Scott said during a press availability in Charleston.

How many more times is it likely that African American males will be involved in violent crimes than the number of times White American males are

Police search black motorists 3x more than white motorists.

For possible reason, see the above stat.

But (!), searches of black motorists don't yield more contraband.

Apparently those odds are acceptable to you as a white boy, put you in blackface and drop you off in Grosse Pointe on a dark and rainy night you will likely change your tune

How many times have blacks been killed by police in Grosse Point? I don't know of any, and our friend google didn't find any either. But it may have happened.

It is more dangerous for anybody, of any color, to be in the streets of Detroit on a dark or rainy night, or any other time, than on the streets of Grosse Pointe.

But that is a different subject than the supposed problem of the police killing blacks because they are black.

wdmso

09-02-2020, 07:09 AM

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/02/908625259/prosecutors-plea-offer-alleged-breonna-taylor-was-part-of-organized-crime-syndic

A man charged with running a drug syndicate was offered a plea deal in July if he would name Breonna Taylor, the 26-year-old Black woman killed by police in her Louisville, Ky. apartment, as a member of his alleged criminal gang, according to the man's attorney.

will we take this with the same Seriousness that some have suggested a that rittenhouse was a lifeguard who cleaned graffiti. it wasn't his gun and basically a good boy and a Patriot to push his self defense argument

yet in kentucky once again the Victim Breonna Taylor is trying to be portrayed as an evil drug dealer to justify the police over her shooting ??

Pete F.

09-02-2020, 07:51 AM

TheSpecialist

09-02-2020, 10:54 AM

You can't carry a firearm in WI at 17 unless you are hunting. A friend gave it to him which could lead to accessory charges. You also can't shoot someone just because they might be about to or are damaging property.

The homicide charges are extremely serious, I don't think a self defense claim is going to fly when you intentionally put yourself in the situation with a weapon. It will be interesting to see if the can conclusively prove what led to the first shooting. Expect his social media activity to get a lot of scrutiny.

His defense should be I'm dumb, immature and listened to too much Trump.

It's a good thing your not a lawyer..

Gun laws in Wisconsin
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Location of Wisconsin in the United States
Gun laws in Wisconsin regulate the sale, possession, and use of firearms and ammunition in the U.S. state of Wisconsin.

Contents
1 Summary table
2 Constitutional protection
3 Preemption
4 Concealed carry
5 Open carry
6 Castle Doctrine
7 No duty to inform
8 Guns in vehicles
8.1 Boats
8.2 Aircraft
8.3 Exceptions
9 Buying and selling
10 Title II firearms
11 State parks, fish hatcheries, and wildlife refuges
12 Other laws
13 Firearms and minors
14 School zones
15 Additional Wisconsin laws table
16 References
17 External links
Summary table[edit]
Subject/Law Long guns Handguns Relevant Statutes Notes
Constitutional right to bear arms Yes 1:25 "The people have the right to keep and bear arms for security, defense, hunting, recreation or any other lawful purpose."
State preemption of local restrictions? Yes 66.0409
State permit required to purchase? No No A purchaser is prohibited from receiving a handgun from a FFL dealer until they’ve paid a background check fee and the state DOJ conducts an additional background check (over and above the Federal 4473).
License required for concealed carry? N/A Yes 175.60 Permit is given on a shall-issue basis. Concealed carry of knives (not intended for use as weapons) is legal without a permit.
Campus carry is allowed, but buildings may be exempted if signs forbidding firearms are posted.
License required for open carry? No No 947.01 948.60 66.0409
941.28
29.304
Open carry of loaded handguns and long guns and knives is permitted without a license for adults over 18, or for minors 16 or older when carrying a long gun that doesn't violate WS 941.28.
Owner license required? No No 941.29
Castle Doctrine/Self Defense Statutes Yes 895.62 Immunity from prosecution and civil damages in the home, with conditions and exceptions
939.48 No duty to retreat in the "dwelling" or owned/operated place of business. No deadly force solely to protect property. 3rd party protection. If attack is provoked, self defense may only be used if reasonable belief of imminent death or great bodily harm. If attack is provoked deadly force only allowed if all other reasonable means of avoidance exhausted.
940.01 "the state must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the facts constituting the defense did not exist in order to sustain a finding of guilt"
Firearm registration? No No
Assault weapon law? No No
Magazine capacity restrictions? No No
NFA weapons restricted? No No 941.298
941.26
Machine guns allowed, but may not shoot pistol cartridges and may not be possessed aggressively or offensively. Suppressors, SBR, and SBS are allowed if NFA rules followed, otherwise felony.
Background checks required for private sales? No

Since it points to wether or not said minor is not in violation of 941.28, which his rifle does not violate, since it is not a short barreled rifle or sawed off shotgun...

941.28 Possession of short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle.
(1) In this section:
(a) “Rifle" means a firearm designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder or hip and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of a propellant in a metallic cartridge to fire through a rifled barrel a single projectile for each pull of the trigger.
(b) “Short-barreled rifle" means a rifle having one or more barrels having a length of less than 16 inches measured from closed breech or bolt face to muzzle or a rifle having an overall length of less than 26 inches.
(c) “Short-barreled shotgun" means a shotgun having one or more barrels having a length of less than 18 inches measured from closed breech or bolt face to muzzle or a shotgun having an overall length of less than 26 inches.
(d) “Shotgun" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder or hip and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of a propellant in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.
(2) No person may sell or offer to sell, transport, purchase, possess or go armed with a short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle.
(3) Any person violating this section is guilty of a Class H felony.
(4) This section does not apply to the sale, purchase, possession, use or transportation of a short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle to or by any armed forces or national guard personnel in line of duty, any peace officer of the United States or of any political subdivision of the United States or any person who has complied with the licensing and registration requirements under 26 USC 5801 to 5872. This section does not apply to the manufacture of short-barreled shotguns or short-barreled rifles for any person or group authorized to possess these weapons. The restriction on transportation contained in this section does not apply to common carriers. This section shall not apply to any firearm that may be lawfully possessed under federal law, or any firearm that could have been lawfully registered at the time of the enactment of the national firearms act of 1968.
(5) Any firearm seized under this section is subject to s. 968.20 (3) and is presumed to be contraband.
History: 1979 c. 115; 2001 a. 109.
The intent in sub. (1) (d) is that of the fabricator; that the gun is incapable of being fired or not intended to be fired by the possessor is immaterial. State v. Johnson, 171 Wis. 2d 175, 491 N.W.2d 110 (Ct. App. 1992).
“Firearm" means a weapon that acts by force of gunpowder to fire a projectile, regardless of whether it is inoperable due to disassembly. State v. Rardon, 185 Wis. 2d 701, 518 N.W.2d 330 (Ct. App. 1994).

Here is a pretty well put together timeline of videos some of which is shot by a reporter or blogger who was there, you will see the Kyle Rittenhouse was not the aggressor, and in fact was targeted and attacked. In the bag that was thrown at him was a brick...

https://youtu.be/NSU9ZvnudFE

TheSpecialist

09-02-2020, 11:01 AM

I have seen all this info. If it's all true, you may well be right. At a minimum, once again, this event was more complicated than the leftist mob spun it as. Once again, the left went nuts without having the facts, and once again, looks like they have egg on their faces. They never learn to wait for the facts, they are not capable of waiting for the facts, not if there's political capital to gain.

I get it, cause I am sometimes guilty of it as well, this stuff gets emotional on both sides. When it comes to Constitutionally protected rights though, I get pissed. This whole thing is also making a perfect case that
1. The AR platform is a perfect platform for self protection
2. The need for hi capacity magazines to protect yourself for legal gun owners. Why should we be at a disadvantage, did you see how many people were attacking this kid.

Everyone commenting on this should watch the youtube video which show a very good chronology of the events from right before the first shooting. The only thing it doesn't show is the widely circulated video of the first guy, taunting the patriots, called them the N word, even though there were actually some armed black patriots in the group with Kyle. This guy was highly agitated and it would not surprise me if he was on something too

TheSpecialist

09-02-2020, 11:04 AM

wdmso

09-02-2020, 11:56 AM

See above you have no idea what your talking about

And you do Ok
:kewl: PS sounds Like your trying to sell More guns

Jim in CT

09-02-2020, 12:14 PM

I get it, cause I am sometimes guilty of it as well, this stuff gets emotional on both sides. When it comes to Constitutionally protected rights though, I get pissed. This whole thing is also making a perfect case that
1. The AR platform is a perfect platform for self protection
2. The need for hi capacity magazines to protect yourself for legal gun owners. Why should we be at a disadvantage, did you see how many people were attacking this kid.

Everyone commenting on this should watch the youtube video which show a very good chronology of the events from right before the first shooting. The only thing it doesn't show is the widely circulated video of the first guy, taunting the patriots, called them the N word, even though there were actually some armed black patriots in the group with Kyle. This guy was highly agitated and it would not surprise me if he was on something too

Sure, you get pissed. But you don't riot, or incite others to riot, and then blame someone else for the blood on your hands.

Jim in CT

09-02-2020, 12:16 PM

See above you have no idea what your talking about

But he knows the Narrative, and that's all that matters.

Jim in CT

09-02-2020, 12:18 PM

And you do Ok
:kewl: PS sounds Like your trying to sell More guns

Have you bothered to listen to what the kids lawyer is saying, or the reporter who was standing right there?

This isn't as simple as the Left wants it to be. It's just not.

Pete F.

09-02-2020, 12:29 PM

No matter if it is Antifa or Ya'llquida it's a problem

The fetishization of Kyle Rittenhouse by some people on the right is one of the most dangerous, irresponsible actions we have witnessed in a long time.

When we have a full and complete understanding of the facts and circumstances surrounding Rittenhouse's killing of two people, it is possible that these facts will demonstrate that Rittenhouse's actions were legally justified and that the entire incident is a tragedy that demonstrates how violence begets violence and the importance of deescalating large-scale conflicts.

It's possible that we will come to find that Kyle Rittenhouse didn't want to kill anyone and the people he shot didn't want to die, but that a series of awful decisions led to two people losing their lives and Rittenhouse having his soul eternally marred—a situation where everyone loses and we realize how precious life is and that we ought to be more careful as a society.

It's also possible that we'll find that Rittenhouse committed either premeditated or straight murder—that he came to Wisconsin with the intent to kill, or that he meant to kill without have a reasonable fear for his own life. Or negligent homicide—that he didn't intend to kill anyone, but was willfully reckless. It's possible that we'll find that he committed manslaughter—that the killings were truly accidental, but not willfully so.

The one thing that should absolutely not be on offer is the glamorization of Rittenhouse as a positive example of sound decisions leading to a good outcome.

And yet, here we are.

If this has you depressed about the near-term future of America, I'm not here to help.

Consider this long essay by David Kilkullen looking at the rise of both right-wing and left-wing militias and the ways in which the two groups have been preparing for open conflict:

There were already many militias of varying political complexions across America — one pro-militia website lists 361 groups across all 50 states. Membership surged after the 2008 financial crisis, then accelerated as thugs from both political extremes fought each other with baseball bats, ¬bicycle chains and pepper spray in the streets of Washington, DC, Seattle, Portland and Detroit. The deadly “Unite the Right” rally in the normally sleepy university town of Charlottesville, Virginia, in August 2017 brought the danger home to many Americans, but the trend was longstanding. . . .
Far-left militias such as Redneck Revolt and the John Brown Gun Club emerged, copying the methods and military-style weapons of right-wing militias while opposing their politics. Both far-right and far-left armed groups were at Charlottesville, with ¬cadres of gun-carrying militants guarding protesters on both sides and a third-party “constitutionalist” militia, the Oath Keepers — composed mainly of military and law-enforcement veterans — standing by as self-appointed umpires.
In the west, a separate rural militia movement had already coalesced around “sovereign citizen” groups that rejected federal authority. Despite media portrayals of its leaders as racially motivated, in fact the sovereign citizen ideology is neither left nor right in a traditional sense — it might better be described as a form of militant libertarianism with roots in the self-reliant cowboy culture of the old west. . . .

[D]uring the 2016 election campaign, ¬Arizona militias mounted armed patrols to support his border wall. In response, Redneck Revolt held a heavily armed show of force in Phoenix, Arizona, later posting a YouTube video showing members shooting semiautomatic rifles at targets displaying alt-right symbols. A few months later, Antifa convened an “anti-colonial anti-fascist community defence gathering” near Flagstaff, Arizona, that included weapons training and coaching in anti-police tactics. Today, far-left and far-right groups operate within close striking distance of each other in several border states and in “contested zones” including the Pacific Northwest, parts of Michigan, Pennsylvania, Virginia and the Carolinas. . . .

The pandemic — and the grievances inspired by heavy-handed responses to it — have brought these tensions to a head. Camouflage-clad militia sporting semiautomatic rifles and body ¬armour and riding in military-¬surplus trucks joined an armed protest against the governor of Pennsylvania in April. Similar protests took place in Ohio and North Dakota. A week later demonstrators, some carrying AK-47 rifles, swarmed into the state ¬capital in Lansing, Michigan, to confront politicians.
A racial edge also emerged: a week after the Lansing incident a group of African-Americans, armed with AR-15 rifles and automatic pistols, mounted a show of force outside the Michigan State Capitol building to support a black member of the legislature. Class inequities, which track closely with racial disparities here, have prompted socialist groups — notably Antifa but also traditionally nonviolent Trotskyist and anarchist networks — to arm themselves for an incipient revolutionary moment.

So . . . not great, Bob.

Kilcullen suggests that what's at the root of everything here isn't hatred, but fear:

One reason for the overemphasis on right-wing extremism, I believe, is that analysts often mis¬characterise armed actors as “hate groups”. It is absolutely true that the intense hatred from right-wing extremists dwarfs most other groups. But the focus on hate is a misunderstanding of what drives violence in internal conflicts.
As Stathis Kalyvas demonstrated a decade ago in The Logic of Violence in Civil War, the worst atrocities are driven not by hate but by fear. Fear of other groups, encroachment of those groups into one’s territory and collapse of confidence in government’s ability to impartially keep the peace are the key factors that provoke communal violence. Hate follows and rationalises fear, not the other way around. And fear of the coronavirus, alongside the demonstrable inability of government to keep people safe, is driving today’s growth in armed militancy.

But now we get to the really depressing stuff:

To me, current conditions feel disturbingly similar to things I have seen in Iraq, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia and Colombia. Indeed, the theory of guerrilla and unconventional warfare fits today’s situation all too well.
If we visualise an armed movement as a pyramid, then the thousands of protesters on the street (and the tens of thousands who support and sympathise with them but stay home) represent the mass base. A smaller group of organisers and support networks (physical and virtual) plays an auxiliary role further up the pyramid. The armed, gun-toting element is smaller still, but higher in skill, weaponry, organisation and motivation. It’s worth remembering that almost three million Americans served in Iraq and Afghanistan, coming home familiar with urban and rural guerrilla warfare to a country where 41 per cent of people own a gun or live with someone who does.

Here is the thing: One of the boring, hypocritical norms of elite politics over the last 50 years has been the insistence at the top of the political world of going through rote condemnations of bad actors and rote paying of respects to victims of violence. Even if you suspected that the people doing the condemning or paying the respects didn't really care.

Donald Trump broke that norm. He knows that a lot of the people who showed up at Charlottesville and in Lansing are his voters, and he's always going to be loyal to his people. So he refuses to condemn them. And Trump never actually gave a crap about John Lewis or anything John Lewis stood for, so he skipped Lewis's funeral.

Whatever else you want to say about it, this is honesty, of a sort.

But it turns out that those boring, rote, hypocritical norms are pretty important. It's important when George W. Bush comes out and vouches for Islam as a religion of peace. It's important when Nancy Pelosi and Dianne Feinstein and Bernie Sanders stand shoulder to shoulder with Steve Scalice.

I happen to think that all four of those people meant what they said, but the point is that it doesn't especially matter whether or not they meant it in their heart of hearts. The fact that they understood they had a duty to say the words meant something.

Because that's how you cut down on the numbers of people in those extremist bases and keep the pyramids of civil conflict to a smaller, less-deadly size.

All of these norms and traditions have (had?) very real functions in society. And as Donald Trump and his enablers break them, we all pay the price.

Jim in CT

09-02-2020, 01:00 PM

Pete F.

09-02-2020, 01:34 PM

Jim in CT

09-02-2020, 02:07 PM

Hopefully you’re well armed Jim, so when this fool in the White House starts the war to get re-elected you can defend yourself.
When I said months ago that he’d start a war to get re-elected, I didn’t imagine that it would be in this country.
Here’s the part you failed to read, sorry if they’re not small words
Here is the thing: One of the boring, hypocritical norms of elite politics over the last 50 years has been the insistence at the top of the political world of going through rote condemnations of bad actors and rote paying of respects to victims of violence. Even if you suspected that the people doing the condemning or paying the respects didn't really care.

Donald Trump broke that norm. He knows that a lot of the people who showed up at Charlottesville and in Lansing are his voters, and he's always going to be loyal to his people. So he refuses to condemn them. And Trump never actually gave a crap about John Lewis or anything John Lewis stood for, so he skipped Lewis's funeral.

Whatever else you want to say about it, this is honesty, of a sort.

But it turns out that those boring, rote, hypocritical norms are pretty important. It's important when George W. Bush comes out and vouches for Islam as a religion of peace. It's important when Nancy Pelosi and Dianne Feinstein and Bernie Sanders stand shoulder to shoulder with Steve Scalice.

I happen to think that all four of those people meant what they said, but the point is that it doesn't especially matter whether or not they meant it in their heart of hearts. The fact that they understood they had a duty to say the words meant something.

Because that's how you cut down on the numbers of people in those extremist bases and keep the pyramids of civil conflict to a smaller, less-deadly size.

All of these norms and traditions have (had?) very real functions in society. And as Donald Trump and his enablers break them, we all pay the price.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"Hopefully you’re well armed Jim, so when this fool in the White House starts the war to get re-elected you can defend yourself."

Defend myself against whom, exactly? People who don't want Trump to win? Because that's where I see the threat. Clearly from the left. Not the right.

I have little kids, and so I choose not to keep firearms in my house. It's liberal idiots who take their cues from race baiters, who make me want to arm up. Not conservatives.

Who would you rather be marching past your house, Pete? Todays BLM, or ANTIFA, or the Tea Party? You go ahead and say with a straight face you wouldn't want the Tea Party.

How has Trump started this? It's all a left wing reaction, to a wildly distorted (distorted by the left) threat from police. How is this on Trump, exactly? How do you connect those dots to Trump?

"he refuses to condemn them"

How many times does he have to condemn white supremacists, before it sinks in that he condemned them? WHats the number?