Is wrong with people resisting getting vaccinated, this group of nitwits is going to take us backwards. Sadly I include my older sister, who is a confirmed anti vaccine nitwit and ironically she is constantly sick, recovered from covid and now suffering with another local Arizona lung issue Valley Fever.

i work with a couple of guys who are not and will not get vacc.

It’s directly related to I.Q.
;)
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There is nothing "wrong" with them, and they are not nitwits. They are not causing anything to go backwards. Before you judge me as being some kind of anti vacc whacko low IQ nitwit, I am not anti vacc. What I am for is the right to question things especially something that may be forced on you. I also don't have a problem with some choosing not to get the shot that is supposed to protect us from the weaponized virus China unleashed on the world. That is not a conspiracy but you keep on believing NPR and any other media pushing this. It still is not FDA approved, I wonder why that is. The shot does not make all of us safe, and giving up liberty is not the right thing to do.
Your sister not getting it will not risk anything to you or anyone else, it's her choice and you should respect that but complaining here or on FB makes you feel better about spreading the message maybe? She may get sick often and have a slower or weaker immune system then you but it is her choice Bob. I have had Valley fever before, it is not good and having asthma I am glad it was when I was young.
Go ahead and pontificate all you want, most of those people are making their own decisions based on actual facts not spoon fed propaganda.

Spoon fed propaganda really Bruce, so the thousands of medical experts are all wrong about the efficacy, it’s safety and severe concerns we may face due to variants are all wrong. While the jury is still out on the actual source, it matters little where it came from as the death toll climbs and the affects to our economy worsens. I trust the science and the medical experts, taking anything media or politicians have to say with a grain of salt. Your kids ALL required vaccines to attend any public school, it’s how so many illnesses have been eliminated, the fact this vaccine hasn’t received official FDA approval has more to do with the process, not it’s efficacy.

So Bruce do you believe the reporting from hospitals that the majority of cases are now due to the unvaccinated is propaganda and what a political ploy to get a chip injected in your arm? Seat belts became law, that must have been hard for those thinking that’s my right to chose.

You don’t know sh*t about my crazy sister, never gets a flu vaccine and has suffered from it several times, I’d also suspect covid made her far more likely to contract Valley Fever. If I had a dollar for every crazy medical wacky paper she has sent me, even you might consider her a nitwit and yes I do respect ANY Americans right to choose, but like many horrific diseases of the past, sometimes it takes a COMPLETELY all in Americans for ALL effort.

Spoon fed propaganda really Bruce, so the thousands of medical experts are all wrong about the efficacy, it’s safety and severe concerns we may face due to variants are all wrong. While the jury is still out on the actual source, it matters little where it came from as the death toll climbs and the affects to our economy worsens. I trust the science and the medical experts, taking anything media or politicians have to say with a grain of salt. Your kids ALL required vaccines to attend any public school, it’s how so many illnesses have been eliminated, the fact this vaccine hasn’t received official FDA approval has more to do with the process, not it’s efficacy.

So Bruce do you believe the reporting from hospitals that the majority of cases are now due to the unvaccinated is propaganda and what a political ploy to get a chip injected in your arm? Seat belts became law, that must have been hard for those thinking that’s my right to chose.

You don’t know sh*t about my crazy sister, never gets a flu vaccine and has suffered from it several times, I’d also suspect covid made her far more likely to contract Valley Fever. If I had a dollar for every crazy medical wacky paper she has sent me, even you might consider her a nitwit and yes I do respect ANY Americans right to choose, but like many horrific diseases of the past, sometimes it takes a COMPLETELY effort


Nope, not all wrong. it makes sense cases are from unvaccinated.

The science if done correctly is fine to trust, the medical experts that have an agenda I personally don't trust.
Why are some medical experts not prescribing Ivermectin when it is clearly proven very effective against Covid and speeds recovery?

"So Bruce do you believe the reporting from hospitals that the majority of cases are now due to the unvaccinated is propaganda and what a political ploy to get a chip injected in your arm?" No I don't call that propaganda. And no I don't believe the rumor mill on the chip thing because I have a brain and common sense, but if half those spreading that are joking, of course some will actually believe it unfortunately.

Seat belt laws or MC Helmet laws are understandably Government protecting you from yourself from possibly injuring yourself worse in case of an accident. You agree with a nanny state like we live in, your prerogative.

Yeah I don't know #^&#^&#^&#^&, I also didn't say I did. All I did was suggest an alternative theory as opposed to conspiracy theory crap. I'll do it again, maybe she is gullible for all I know. Maybe she cares about you like you might about her. It is frustrating for everyone. There is plenty of frustration to go around.

If I got covid and recovered, I would have figured my immune system has a better ability to fight it off and does not need a vaccination. That to me is better than the shot.

There is nothing "wrong" with them, and they are not nitwitssure they are. They are ignoring science and dying from it - that is the definition of "nitwit" and why I have choose to listen to the scientists who know far more about this than I do./COLOR]. They are not causing anything to go backwards. Before you judge me as being some kind of anti vacc whacko low IQ nitwit, I am not anti vacc. What I am for is the right to question things especially something that may be forced on you[COLOR="red"]How is it being forced on you? No one is forcing it on you. . I also don't have a problem with some choosing not to get the shot that is supposed to protect us from the weaponized virus China unleashed on the worldDo you have any proof of that?. That is not a conspiracy but you keep on believing NPR and any other media pushing this. It still is not FDA approved, I wonder why that is. The shot does not make all of us safeno, it makes the overwhelming majority safe and the fact that well over 95% of the people who are dying have put themselves at risk by ignoring science and instead listening to a bunch of idiots., and giving up liberty is not the right thing to do.
Your sister not getting it will not risk anything to you or anyone else100% false, it's her choice and you should respect that but complaining here or on FB makes you feel better about spreading the message maybe? She may get sick often and have a slower or weaker immune system then you but it is her choice Bob. I have had Valley fever before, it is not good and having asthma I am glad it was when I was young.
Go ahead and pontificate all you want, most of those people are making their own decisions based on actual facts LOL - you are so wrong that it is sad.not spoon fed propaganda.

It is science. Sad you discount it.

And if you did come down with Covid, you might want to think twice about Ivermectin:

The efficacy of a drug being promoted by rightwing figures worldwide for treating Covid-19 is in serious doubt after a major study suggesting the treatment is effective against the virus was withdrawn due to “ethical concerns”.

The preprint study on the efficacy and safety of ivermectin – a drug used against parasites such as worms and headlice – in treating Covid-19, led by Dr Ahmed Elgazzar from Benha University in Egypt, was published on the Research Square website in November.

It claimed to be a randomised control trial, a type of study crucial in medicine because it is considered to provide the most reliable evidence on the effectiveness of interventions due to the minimal risk of confounding factors influencing the results. Elgazzar is listed as chief editor of the Benha Medical Journal, and is an editorial board member.

The study found that patients with Covid-19 treated in hospital who “received ivermectin early reported substantial recovery” and that there was “a substantial improvement and reduction in mortality rate in ivermectin treated groups” by 90%.

But the drug’s promise as a treatment for the virus is in serious doubt after the Elgazzar study was pulled from the Research Square website on Thursday “due to ethical concerns”. Research Square did not outline what those concerns were.

A medical student in London, Jack Lawrence, was among the first to identify serious concerns about the paper, leading to the retraction. He first became aware of the Elgazzar preprint when it was assigned to him by one of his lecturers for an assignment that formed part of his master’s degree. He found the introduction section of the paper appeared to have been almost entirely plagiarised.

It appeared that the authors had run entire paragraphs from press releases and websites about ivermectin and Covid-19 through a thesaurus to change key words. “Humorously, this led to them changing ‘severe acute respiratory syndrome’ to ‘extreme intense respiratory syndrome’ on one occasion,” Lawrence said.

The data also looked suspicious to Lawrence, with the raw data apparently contradicting the study protocol on several occasions.

“The authors claimed to have done the study only on 18-80 year olds, but at least three patients in the dataset were under 18,” Lawrence said.

“The authors claimed they conducted the study between the 8th of June and 20th of September 2020, however most of the patients who died were admitted into hospital and died before the 8th of June according to the raw data. The data was also terribly formatted, and includes one patient who left hospital on the non-existent date of 31/06/2020.”

There were other concerns.

“In their paper, the authors claim that four out of 100 patients died in their standard treatment group for mild and moderate Covid-19,” Lawrence said. “According to the original data, the number was 0, the same as the ivermectin treatment group. In their ivermectin treatment group for severe Covid-19, the authors claim two patients died, but the number in their raw data is four.”

Lawrence and the Guardian sent Elgazzar a comprehensive list of questions about the data, but did not receive a reply. The university’s press office also did not respond.

Lawrence contacted an Australian chronic disease epidemiologist from the University of Wollongong, Gideon Meyerowitz-Katz, and a data analyst affiliated with Linnaeus University in Sweden who reviews scientific papers for errors, Nick Brown, for help analysing the data and study results more thoroughly.

Brown created a comprehensive document uncovering numerous data errors, discrepancies and concerns, which he provided to the Guardian. According to his findings the authors had clearly repeated data between patients.

“The main error is that at least 79 of the patient records are obvious clones of other records,” Brown told the Guardian. “It’s certainly the hardest to explain away as innocent error, especially since the clones aren’t even pure copies. There are signs that they have tried to change one or two fields to make them look more natural.”

Other studies on ivermectin are still under way. In the UK, the University of Oxford is testing whether giving people with Covid-19 ivermectin prevents them ending up in hospital.

The Elgazzar study was one of the the largest and most promising showing the drug may help Covid patients, and has often been cited by proponents of the drug as evidence of its effectiveness. This is despite a peer-reviewed paper published in the journal Clinical Infectious Diseases in June finding ivermectin is “not a viable option to treat COVID-19 patients”.

Meyerowitz-Katz told the Guardian that “this is one of the biggest ivermectin studies out there”, and it appeared to him the data was “just totally faked”. This was concerning because two meta-analyses of ivermectin for treating Covid-19 had included the Elgazzar study in the results. A meta-analysis is a statistical analysis that combines the results of multiple scientific studies to determine what the overall scientific literature has found about a treatment or intervention.

“Because the Elgazzar study is so large, and so massively positive – showing a 90% reduction in mortality – it hugely skews the evidence in favour of ivermectin,” Meyerowitz-Katz said.

“If you remove this one study from the scientific literature, suddenly there are very few positive randomised control trials of ivermectin for Covid-19. Indeed, if you get rid of just this research, most meta-analyses that have found positive results would have their conclusions entirely reversed.”

Kyle Sheldrick, a Sydney doctor and researcher, also independently raised concerns about the paper. He found numbers the authors provided for several standard deviations – a measure of variation in a group of data points – mentioned in tables in the paper were “mathematically impossible” given the range of numbers provided in the same table.

Sheldrick said the completeness of data was further evidence suggesting possible fabrication, noting that in real-world conditions, this was almost impossible. He also identified the duplication of patient deaths and data.

Ivermectin has gained momentum throughout Latin America and India, largely based on evidence from preprint studies. In March, the World Health Organization warned against the use of ivermectin outside well designed clinical trials.

The conservative Australian MP Craig Kelly, who has also promoted the use of the anti-malarial drug hydroxychloroquine to treat Covid-19 – despite World Health Organization advice that clinical trials show it does not prevent illness or death from the virus – has been among those promoting ivermectin. Several Indian media outlets ran stories on Kelly in the past week after he asked Uttar Pradesh to loan the state’s chief minister, Adityanath, to Australia to release ivermectin. After this story was initially published, Kelly contacted the Guardian to say he disagreed that there was no evidence that hydroxychloroquine worked, and that he stood by his views.

Lawrence said what started out as a simple university assignment had led to a comprehensive investigation into an apparent scientific fraud at a time when “there is a whole ivermectin hype … dominated by a mix of right-wing figures, anti-vaxxers and outright conspiracists”.

“Although science trends towards self-correction, something is clearly broken in a system that can allow a study as full of problems as the Elgazzar paper to run unchallenged for seven months,” he said.

“Thousands of highly educated scientists, doctors, pharmacists, and at least four major medicines regulators missed a fraud so apparent that it might as well have come with a flashing neon sign. That this all happened amid an ongoing global health crisis of epic proportions is all the more terrifying.”

Go ahead and pontificate all you want, most of those people are making their own decisions based on actual facts not spoon fed propaganda.
Bruce, please, PLEASE, show me where I can find these actual facts!!! Maybe I would not be so upset with my son's decision not to get the shot. I am open to hearing and considering that side if it makes sense. But until I see FACTS, I choose to go with the science for myself, in order to feel I can go out to work and not risk bringing it home to an 85 year old who lives with us. And to allay my fear that I could easily be the one struggling to breathe if I were to contract Covid.

As for the FDA, I believe they have a time parameter to meet for general approvals, and the period from the vaccines' initial introduction to now just doesn't meet that time frame. No different, in my mind, from a manufacturer of building product being restricted from making a ten or thirty year guarantee on a two year old product line.

And I am pissed off that the subject has become politicized.... Makes me hate politics even more.

I get it Ross

it pisses me off too, but that is what they want

Control freaks are gonna control

Darwinism at work. Survival
Of the fittest ….
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It sounds to me that if (god forbid ) we have another draft, 45 % of Americans will move to Canada…

I don’t really believe that but that’s how I feel about it…

do whatever you feel is right. I got both shots, feel fine and just logged for 8 hours in this heat at 73 years old.

BTW, I also just bought my 6th Stihl saw. Bit the bullet and bought a MS261 pro saw. $800 with a 20" bar and I'm running a Stihl "yellow" full chisel chain. This bastard "EATS"!!!!

do whatever you feel is right. I got both shots, feel fine and just logged for 8 hours in this heat at 73 years old.

BTW, I also just bought my 6th Stihl saw. Bit the bullet and bought a MS261 pro saw. $800 with a 20" bar and I'm running a Stihl "yellow" full chisel chain. This bastard "EATS"!!!!

More power! My MS170 with a dime tip just won’t start, finally stopped messing with it and dropped it off, love that little guy for the detail carving. Ironically the Echo I bought from Home Depot years ago starts with two pulls every time.
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Unvaccinated and vaccinated people should be concerned about the rapid rise of Delta, which now makes up at least 83% of sequenced cases in the US.
The more uncontrolled spread, the more risk of even more dangerous variants. Vaccination, masks, ventilation and distancing can stop Covid, including Delta. Variants remain the wild card for the trajectory of the pandemic. Delta may not be the worst strain the virus deals us.
We can reduce the risk of other dangerous variants by vaccinating widely and also tamping down spread.
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"If I got covid and recovered, I would have figured my immune system has a better ability to fight it off and does not need a vaccination. That to me is better than the shot."

If you aren't vaccinated get covid and die, well I guess you will have gone down holding on to your belief that the government partnered with big pharma on this one are out to get you.

This crap isn't going away, the only way that happens is if a lot more get vaccinated or in your world get covid and survive with some sort of natural immunity. Your way if followed by the remaining unvaccinated who have access and won't get it, will just continue to kill people, allow more and possibly deadlier variants to develop, impact our economy and force more government and employer mandates on masking, you ok with your way forcing more mask mandates; isn't that taking us to a place you hate?

You may and I say may because that will be determined by your customer, have the luxury of not masking up as an independent contractor, but I'm sure I speak for a lot of people, we aren't happy the unvaccinated might be taking us backwards instead of forwards.

And I would say WTF is wrong with people who freak out about those who aren't getting vaccinated. What happened to "my body my choice"?

We've had covid in my house twice now. My son and I had it first, right before pandemic shutdowns started (before anyone was even talking about it). And my wife had it in the fall. My son and I both had a bad cough, but because covid wasn't 'a thing' yet, all the pediatricians did was test for flu and suggest a humidifier in his room. Other than the fact that my wife still has no sense of smell, we made it thru just fine.

I am not anti-vax, I'm just anti-force. I fully supported all the standard (read here: "approved") vaccinations for my son. I also got whatever shot my doctor recommended when my wife was pregnant. But my wife's doctor has openly said there isn't enough data to really know for sure what effects the vaccine might have on women that are pregnant, trying to get pregnant, and/or breastfeeding.

When I was in college, I participated in medical experiments/studies for money. The more invasive, the more I got paid. Every time I had to sign a waiver stating that I understood the risks and couldn't hold the doc/hospital/school responsible in any way. And THAT is what's going on right now, except you aren't getting paid like I did.

At the end of the day, all I really want is for people to chill out and mind their own business, regardless of what side you're on. Nobody freaks out when a family member doesn't get the flu shot. Nobody freaks out and cuts off a family member when they buy a pack of cigarettes.

More power! My MS170 with a dime tip just won’t start, finally stopped messing with it and dropped it off, love that little guy for the detail carving. Ironically the Echo I bought from Home Depot years ago starts with two pulls every time.
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I know a contractor who clears house lots with a 170. Good little saw.

And I would say WTF is wrong with people who freak out about those who aren't getting vaccinated. What happened to "my body my choice"?


At the end of the day, all I really want is for people to chill out and mind their own business, regardless of what side you're on. Nobody freaks out when a family member doesn't get the flu shot. Nobody freaks out and cuts off a family member when they buy a pack of cigarettes.

I guess you don't understand that your not getting the vaccine is putting others at risk - including people w/compromised immune systems. The unvaccinated are causing pain and economic hardship to the entire country.

You don't have the right to drive drunk because your decision can endanger other people. Your decision not to get vaccinated also endangers other people. (If it just endangered you alone, I'd say fine. Do what you want. But it doesnt work that way!)
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Paul and Pete - I'm not out in public, I'm not part of the workforce. The only people that come to my home are family, and they're either vaccinated themselves or in the same boat as me. I wear a mask when I'm in a public place, and I spend 85% of my time in my own house.

You're right, I'm not allowed to drive drunk. But I am allowed to drink myself stupid in my own home. And I'm definitely not allowed to force you to drink just because I think it will make you more fun to be around. Again, you do your thing and I'll do mine. I'm not trying to convince anyone else to believe what I believe, I just want people to stop shoving their preferences in my face.

If I follow the same logic, shouldn't I try to force everyone to be atheist? More people have been killed in the name of religion than anything else in the history of humans. While we're at it, let's 100% stop production of all cigarettes and alcohol because those kill quite a few people every year.

Politics, religion, sexual preference, music, sports, - it's all the same to me - I don't care what you believe, as long as you don't try to force me to follow the same ways.

Sounds to me like the control freaks have ginned up the notion that we should point the finger at the bad guy(the unvaccinated). So where is the science that has proven the unvaccinated are putting me at risk? I call bulshi t

You want someone to blame? get over yourselves. You know who is to blame for this pandemic and it is not Trump so deal with it, we all know who it is.
Control what you can control and move on.

That's fine but a lot of people are out and about without being vaccinated and that is the issue. And without masks.
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You know who is to blame for this pandemic and it is not Trump so deal with it, we all know who it is.

Pelosi? Oh wait that's the insurrection :rollem:

Sounds to me like the control freaks have ginned up the notion that we should point the finger at the bad guy(the unvaccinated). So where is the science that has proven the unvaccinated are putting me at risk? I call bulshi t

You want someone to blame? get over yourselves. You know who is to blame for this pandemic and it is not Trump so deal with it, we all know who it is.
Control what you can control and move on.

Who here brought up Trump, oh wait it was you, who the f*ck cares where it originated, that’s for the current administration and intelligence agencies to determine and address with sanctions if needed. This is about those (with access) resisting getting vaccinated, which has been proved to be effective, continuing the spread and allowing time for new variants to develop. All this impacts every American and our economy, if you are anti vaccine from the get go or have religious objections ok, but if your listening to the BS primarily politically generated suggesting this vaccine isn’t effective, or government overreach, be ready for more of the same.

Nothing in my lifetime has come close to this virus in terms of worldwide impact. So take the cigarette and alcohol argument off the table. The percentages are low, BUT the incidence of Delta, currently, is going in the wrong direction, rapidly. And my view is that we are all headed to more lockdowns, shutdowns, closures, hand outs, higher costs, hyper inflation, loss of jobs, and more governmental control, worldwide.... Because we couldn't get this virus under control when we have/had a chance... And the reason for this is a significant percentage of the American population was not able to procure the antibodies... That is how I connect the dots. Sometimes the choices made available to us are bad and worse. I am a big proponent of our freedoms. Clearly, mandating vaccination is goes against the grain of our freedoms we have grown to love and expect in America. But losing the ability to work, make a reasonable income, and keep my buying power current with the economy is going to be put at risk, again! By this virus! Just doesn't make sense to me when the tool to prevent this is available.

Maybe some of you will remember this post when we are all locked down in our houses again....

And just so I am clear on this; I respect those who (can) choose not to get the vaccine. But the blame will be squarely on your collective non-vaccine shoulders when the shutdown and economic fallout arrives. And when that happens I will be vocal in reminding you that your choice affected my freedoms....

Just doesn't make sense to me when the tool to prevent this is available.

Ross you hit the nail on the head and you have the hammers to do it. Want freedom to move around, work, go out to dinner or shop with these damn masks, not to mention NOT putting family, neighbors and friends at risk get the shot.
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Maybe the French have it right; No proof of vaccination, no access to public restaurants, grocery stores, events, anything. Stay home in quarantine and wait for the Delta pandemic of the un-vaccinated. What you gonna do then?

What if PPP loan forgiveness were to get tied to proof of vaccination?....for all employees as well. I hear that could be put on the table.

Private businesses are already requiring proof of vaccination for entry, restaurants in Boston, NYC and others.
They have the right to do that, just like no shirt no shoes no service.
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What if PPP loan forgiveness were to get tied to proof of vaccination?....for all employees as well. I hear that could be put on the table.

Life insurers charge a premium for people who smoke. Maybe health insurers should do the same for people who won't get the vaccine (unless legitimate reasons) or deny all covid related claims.

Serious question, what are legitimate reasons?
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same reason life insurers charge more for smokers.

Well, according to Yale who I believe is requireing vaccinations

Information for Special Populations and the COVID-19 vaccine
COVID-19 can cause severe medical complications and lead to death in some people and vaccination can help protect you and others around you from COVID-19. In certain circumstances, people may be advised by their doctor to receive a specific type of COVID-19 vaccine or to delay vaccination due to immunosuppressing medical treatment or surgery to a future date when immunization is more likely to have an effective immune response. Pregnant and lactating people are encouraged to speak with a healthcare provider about COVID-19 vaccine should they have questions.

Can people with allergies get the COVID-19 vaccine? Yes, in most cases with 2 exceptions:

People with a severe allergic reaction (anaphylaxis) to any component of either an mRNA vaccine or the Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine should NOT receive that vaccine. Many people will be safely able to receive an alternate vaccine. An allergic reaction is considered severe when it is classified by a healthcare provider as an anaphylactic reaction or a person needs to be treated with epinephrine or EpiPen© or if the person must go to the hospital.
If You Are Allergic to Polyethylene Glycol (PEG) or Polysorbate

PEG and polysorbate are closely related to each other. PEG is an ingredient in the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna), and polysorbate is an ingredient in the Johnson & Johnson (J&J)/Janssen vaccine. If you are allergic to PEG, you should not get an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine. Ask your doctor if you can get the J&J/Janssen vaccine.
If you are allergic to polysorbate, you should not get the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 vaccine. Ask your doctor if you can get an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine.
2. People with a severe allergic reaction (anaphylaxis) to any vaccine or injectable (intramuscular or intravenous) medication should consult with their health provider to assess risk prior to receiving the COVID-19 vaccine.

More information about allergies and the COVID-19 vaccines can be found on the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention website. The medical exemption request forms must be accessed on the Yale Vaccine Portal, then uploaded once completed prior to being submitted to the university’s COVID-19 Vaccine Medical Exemption Review Committee. Learn more about the exemption request process here.

Everyone else with severe allergic reactions to foods, oral medications, latex, pets, insects, and environmental triggers can get vaccinated against COVID-19.

People with severe allergies require a 30-minute observation period after vaccination, while all others must be observed for 15 minutes. Vaccine clinics have safety protocols in place to respond to any adverse reactions.

If I am pregnant or breastfeeding?

If you are pregnant or breastfeeding, you can receive a COVID-19 vaccine. Based on how these vaccines work in the body, experts believe they are unlikely to pose a risk for these groups. Pregnant people are at increased risk for severe illness from COVID-19 and may be at risk for adverse pregnancy outcomes. There is limited but growing information on the safety of COVID-19 vaccines in pregnant people. The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) recommends that the COVID-19 vaccine should not be withheld from pregnant or breastfeeding individuals.

COVID-19 vaccines have been studied in animals both before and during pregnancy and found no safety concerns. Pregnant individuals were included in clinical trials and thousands more have been vaccinated since the vaccines became available. Early data from safety monitoring systems did not identify any safety concerns for pregnant people who were vaccinated or for their babies. The CDC is continuing to collect data on vaccinated pregnant people through the v-safe COVID-19 Pregnancy Registry.

There are no data on the safety of COVID-19 vaccines in breastfeeding people or on the effects of mRNA vaccines on the breastfed infant or on milk production/excretion at this time. However, mRNA vaccines are not thought to be a risk to the breastfeeding infant. There is evidence of robust secretion of protective antibodies in the breastmilk of people vaccinated with mRNA COVID-19 vaccines suggesting a potential protective effect for the breastfed infant.

If you are pregnant or breastfeeding you may wish to discuss the benefits and risks of the vaccine balanced with the risks of COVID-19 infection with your healthcare provider. While a conversation with your healthcare provider may be helpful, it is not required prior to vaccination.

We encourage pregnant and breastfeeding people to discuss COVID-19 vaccination with their health care provider prior to requesting medical exemption. The medical exemption request forms must be accessed on the Yale Vaccine Portal, then uploaded once completed prior to being submitted to the university’s COVID-19 Vaccine Medical Exemption Review Committee. Medical exemption for pregnancy, planning pregnancy or breastfeeding will be granted on a temporary basis and is subject to reassessment. Learn more about the exemption request process here.

Is the vaccine as effective in people with suppressed immune systems? Specific efficacy and safety data are not yet available for people with immunosuppression (weakened immune system) due to medications or chronic illness. People who are immunocompromised are recommended to be vaccinated in most cases as they are at higher risk for severe complications from COVD-19 infection. Those who are vaccinated should be counseled on the potential for reduced immune responses and the need to continue to follow all current guidance to protect themselves against COVID-19. If you are immunocompromised you and your doctor can decide together by weighing the benefits and risks. If you and your health care provider feel that it is appropriate to pursue a request for medical exemption, you must access and submit the form on the Yale Vaccine Portal once completed. Medical exemptions may be granted on a temporary basis and are subject to reassessment. Learn more about the exemption request process here.

Should people with autoimmune diseases receive COVID-19 vaccine?

People with autoimmune conditions are at higher risk for severe illness from COVID-19 infection and vaccination is recommended in most cases. If you have an autoimmune disease, consult with your healthcare provider to discuss the risks and benefits of vaccination. If you and your health care provider feel that it is appropriate to pursue a request for medical exemption, you must access and submit the form on the Yale Vaccine Portal. Medical exemptions may be granted on a temporary basis and are subject to reassessment.

Can children get the COVID-19 vaccine? The Pfizer mRNA vaccine is currently authorized for people 12 years and older. The Moderna mRNA vaccine and J&J vaccine are currently authorized for people 18 years and older. Learn more about COVID-19 vaccination for children here.

Should I get the COVID-19 vaccine even if I’ve already had COVID-19?

Yes. The extent to which antibodies that develop in response to COVID-19 infection are protective is still under study. If these antibodies are protective, it’s not known what antibody levels are needed to protect against reinfection. Therefore, even those who previously had COVID-19 can and should receive the COVID-19 vaccine.

I was recently diagnosed with COVID-19 can I receive the vaccine?

Yes, for Dose #1 you can be vaccinated four weeks after onset of symptoms or a positive test (whichever is earlier). For Dose #2 you may be vaccinated after you have completed your isolation period. Isolation is for 10 days or 10 days plus 24 hours with no fever and an improvement in symptoms.

Updated June 19, 2021.

Bruce, you and I go way back, but you're sounding more and more like someone I no longer know. It saddens me. Seriously. :(

Bruce, you and I go way back, but you're sounding more and more like someone I no longer know. It saddens me. Seriously. :(

Maybe Bruce can help out.

Serious question, what are legitimate reasons?
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Sorry I didn't ask answer your question. I was thinking of people who won't take it because of religious reasons. I also thought there was some issue with some immunocompromised people and or possibly transplants but I really have not read up on that.
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People are not going to change. We can only take care of ourselves & not take the simple things for granted. enjoy life the best you can. In the beginning of the virus my Facility lost 18 residents & 1 Nurse. I blame the Media for not emphasizing how quickly this virus works in a 24 hr period.... people alert, up & walking @ Breakfast, can't catch their breath at Lunchtime , sent out to the Hospital only to be gone 24-48 hrs. .... they were all admitted with 'Pneumonia' but tests proved Covid. Those that survived now have in their Medical History .....Covid 19. This is now considered a ' pre existing ' condition. Interesting to see how it will affect future medical claims. Insurance co. will say it won't matter but read the fine print.

To use a classic line from Star Trek which certainly applies to this pandemic. Spock says, “Logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.” Captain Kirk answers, “Or the one.”

Some people make it hard to have sympathy for them:

A GOP official from Texas who regularly espoused anti-vaccine and anti-mask views online has died from COVID-19, five days after posting a meme on Facebook questioning the wisdom of getting inoculated against COVID.

#^&#^&#^&#^&inson City Council member and Galveston County Republican Party chair H. Scott Apley, 45, died in a local hospital around 3 a.m. Wednesday morning, according to a GoFundMe page set up to help Apley’s family with expenses. He was admitted to the facility in Galveston on Sunday with “pneumonia-like symptoms,” and was hooked up to a ventilator as his condition worsened. His wife was also infected, the family said.

“He leaves behind his wife, Melissa, who is COVID positive, as well as their infant son Reid,” according to the fundraiser, which has so far raised almost $15,000 of its $30,000 goal. “Your donations are greatly appreciated and will help the family as they get through this difficult period.”

“My heart is beyond broken for his family,” #^&#^&#^&#^&inson Mayor Sean Skipworth wrote in a Facebook post. “Scott was a new father and that makes this loss especially tragic.”

Texas Republican Party Chairman Matt Rinaldi said in a statement, “Please join me in lifting the Apley family up in prayer. We will miss Scott deeply but find comfort knowing he is at peace in the arms of our Savior.” The announcement did not mention the fact that Apley’s death was COVID-related.

Apley is a staunch conservative and devout Christian. But based on his social media activity, Apley didn’t believe COVID was going to affect him or his family.

In May, Apley posted an invitation for a “mask burning” being held at a bar in Cincinnati, commenting, “I wish I lived in the area!” A couple of weeks earlier, he posted a news article about giveaways and incentives meant to encourage people to get vaccinated, writing, “Disgusting.” Apley also railed against so-called vaccine passports, which restrict high-risk activities, such as indoor dining, to the fully vaccinated. Recently, he suggested that mask mandates in Germany were akin to Nazism.

In one of numerous Facebook posts on the subject, Apley wrote, “Question: If businesses start allowing customers and employees go mask free only with VOLUNTARILY providing their vaccination record (presumably not a HIPPA [sic] violation), wouldn't that basically INVOLUNTARILY identify people who have chosen not to get vaccinated (Which might be indirectly creating a HIPPA [sic] violation)?”

HIPAA is the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996, and prohibits healthcare providers from improperly divulging a person’s private medical information without their consent. It does not apply to private businesses—a bartender asking if a customer is vaccinated, for example, does not constitute a HIPAA violation.

On July 30, less than a week before his death, Apley reposted a meme on his Facebook page that said: “In 6 months, we’ve gone from the vax ending the pandemic—to you can still get covid even if vaxxed—to you can pass covid onto others even if vaxxed—to you can still die of covid even if vaxxed—to the unvaxxed are killing the vaxxed.”In an interview Wednesday with the Galveston County Daily News, Mayor Sean Skipworth said he didn’t know if Apley had been vaccinated against COVID.

Apley’s untimely passing comes as COVID skeptics across the country have died or become extraordinarily sick after rejecting the constant calls by public health officials to get vaccinated and mask up. In Nashville, a right-wing radio host who repeatedly spread misinformation about the virus and mocked the vaccine, is now hospitalized as he fights for his life. A Brooklyn woman who called COVID a “fraud” died after rejecting the vaccine in favor of natural supplements like zinc and Vitamin D.

The family of a Florida woman who refused the COVID vaccine and died in June still refuses to get the jab. A Florida track coach who had resisted calls by friends and colleagues to get vaccinated finally agreed to make an appointment for his shots. However, he contracted COVID a day or two before getting his first dose and died in the hospital after slipping into a coma, leaving behind a wife and four children.

yA CAN,T teach or cure [stupid] :nailem:

There might be a little hope.

Over the last 24 hours, the US saw the highest number of daily Covid-19 shots administered since July 3, with 864,000 vaccinations administered.
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yA CAN,T teach or cure [stupid] :nailem:

You are so right Mike.

Natural selection tends to cull the stupid from the herd, our problem is that process takes time.
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On and on we go, masks going back on and the fall right around the corner. The longer this goes on with this large a percentage of the country unvaccinated, the more likely yet another and possibly more deadly variant develops. I’m thinking this is now coming down to anti-vaccine anything crowd, rural southern state communities with fear or less access, the young I’m invincible crowd and of course the it’s my choice don’t tell me what to do crowd. Basically the uneducated or the stupid to boil it down. The irony is EVERYONE is sick of it and I think the majority of the country (with a brain) know the key to stopping this is to get the majority of the country vaccinated. I am so glad I’m retired I feel for those still working and especially folks who rely on customers coming into their shops, bars or restaurants.

Sucks

The vaccine is a GIFT! Never did I think in my wildest dreams back in March, April, and May, that we would be concerned with people not getting vaccinated.....

The vaccine is a GIFT! Never did I think in my wildest dreams back in March, April, and May, that we would be concerned with people not getting vaccinated.....

George Carlin would have to remind you that half of the people in this world are dumber than you and the other half are even dumber.
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Darwinism at work. Survival
Of the fittest ….
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actually "the fittest" do pretty well with Covid...it's the unfit...fat and suffering from another of many self-induced health issues that experience bad outcomes from Covid exposure...maybe we should be lecturing the unfit to get their $h1t together :biglaugh:

Natural selection tends to cull the stupid from the herd, our problem is that process takes time.
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Covid has culled the unhealthy from the herd...is that natural selection?

we know that if you are healthy and maintain a healthy immune system your unlikely to die from covid....

if you overeat, pound sugar, saturated fats, carbs, alcohol, tobacco etc.....you are probably going to be overweight and have heart disease or high blood pressure or hypertension or liver disease or lung disease etc...which according to the statistics is prevalent in a ridiculous percentage of Americans and which pretty much guarantees a bad outcome if you get covid

how many Americans spent the covid months binge watching-eating-drinking-smoking etc? According to the study I saw America got fatter and less healthy during those months....probably sitting around waiting for a shot to cure everything so they could continue on with an unhealthy lifestyle:chased:

same reason life insurers charge more for smokers.

maybe we should fine or jail people who won't get vaccinated and double if they smoke(wait, that doesn't include pot right?)

Covid has culled the unhealthy from the herd...is that natural selection?

we know that if you are healthy and maintain a healthy immune system your unlikely to die from covid....

if you overeat, pound sugar, saturated fats, carbs, alcohol, tobacco etc.....you are probably going to be overweight and have heart disease or high blood pressure or hypertension or liver disease or lung disease etc...which according to the statistics is prevalent in a ridiculous percentage of Americans and which pretty much guarantees a bad outcome if you get covid

how many Americans spent the covid months binge watching-eating-drinking-smoking etc? According to the study I saw America got fatter and less healthy during those months....probably sitting around waiting for a shot to cure everything so they could continue on with an unhealthy lifestyle:chased:

And what Scott there are no defiant don’t force me to mask or vaccine people spreading it to the elderly and people with underlying health issues? You I think would fit it well in FL and you constantly bitch about CT, maybe it’s time for a move.

People in Texas and other states with low vaccination rates seem to be having different results with healthy and younger people dealing with Covid.

Covid cases in the Lone Star State have exploded in the last few weeks. Texas is averaging about 15,419 new cases per day, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University as of Wednesday, up 34% from a week ago and more than double the seven-day average of 6,762 just two weeks ago.

“What’s concerning about the trajectory is that we’re seeing a much more rapid increase in the number of cases,” said Dr. Trish Perl, chief of infectious diseases at UT Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas.

“We are seeing unvaccinated people that are younger as opposed to earlier in the pandemic when we saw a lot of hospitalizations over 65. Now, the largest and the highest increases that we’re seeing are the 18-to-49-year-olds, and a lot of these people don’t have underlying illnesses.”

and you constantly bitch about CT, maybe it’s time for a move.



pretty sure I have never bitched about Connecticut...I live in RI

People in Texas and other states with low vaccination rates seem to be having different results with healthy and younger people dealing with Covid.

Covid cases in the Lone Star State have exploded in the last few weeks.

Rhode Island 69% vaccinated

August 12 ,2020 93 cases

August 12, 2021 364 cases


I blame Texas....

Rhode Island 69% vaccinated

August 12 ,2020 93 cases

August 12, 2021 364 cases


I blame Texas....

You always can obfuscate and throw smoke

“We are seeing unvaccinated people that are younger as opposed to earlier in the pandemic when we saw a lot of hospitalizations over 65. Now, the largest and the highest increases that we’re seeing are the 18-to-49-year-olds, and a lot of these people don’t have underlying illnesses.”

There is a significant correlation between low vaccination rates and hospitalizations/deaths and the current anecdotal evidence is that is happening to younger and healthier people.

the current anecdotal evidence is that is happening to younger and healthier people.

on our local news this morning they reported that there is a significant amount of covid being found in deer in Pennsylvania...not sure if they are vaccinated or unvaccinated

Meanwhile our borders are wide open with illegals flooding into the country with the virus 🤔
Was reported 40% of them have it but you won’t hear about that in the media
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Meanwhile our borders are wide open with illegals flooding into the country with the virus 🤔
Was reported 40% of them have it but you won’t hear about that in the media
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Health experts refute the far right wing claim immigration policy is fueling the rise in covid, its Delta, no shock you would be tuned into the far right.

Health experts refute the far right wing claim immigration policy is fueling the rise in covid, its Delta, no shock you would be tuned into the far right.




Health experts are on the lefts payroll so believe what you want.
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Health experts are on the lefts payroll so believe what you want.
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I believe in science and the far right media has you believing exactly what they want and need you to believe.

I find it so ironic that these GOP governors are suggesting they are protecting their constituents right to chose, while removing not only their right to chose, but their school districts funding for choosing to protect their kids with mask mandates. Like anyone with a brain can’t see the political calculus at play, roll the dice I hope it blows up in their faces.

WTF can,t we play nice ??

it doesn,r seem what the issue is .red vs blue states or blue vs red states ............ what ever happened .whats best for the people :bgi:

No sh*t Mike when idiots play with other peoples lives for political reasons they just plain su*k
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no matter what they vote on ..........you can tell the ya & nay by the color ........... they don,t actually vote for the people of their states .they vote to keep staying in office & building on their pensions ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Booth sides .its not whats best for the country ..its whats best for [ME} really sad :af::hs::hs:

We need term limits and that with some changes to their pensions, health insurance and perks, suddenly people with some integrity might be running for office.

Lots of vaccine mandates enacted immediately after the FDA approval, hopefully that gets more shots into arms of the reluctant. Going to be either get vaccinated or look for another job or potentially loose out on your college enrollment.

United Airlines, get vaccinated or find another job.
Delta Airlines, get vaccinated or if on their health plan, getting additional $200/ month charge and employee must pay for testing out of pocket.

Enjoy the slippery slope this will open up.

I'm glad the FDA approved it, and I hope more people get it now because of this, but monetarily punishing people and threatening their livelihood, sorry not a fan
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Enjoy the slippery slope this will open up.

I'm glad the FDA approved it, and I hope more people get it now because of this, but monetarily punishing people and threatening their livelihood, sorry not a fan
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As opposed to letting unvaccinated threaten the rest of the workforce, student body or other passengers on planes and public transit systems in the name of personal right to choose? It’s not like vaccine mandates are new, unless your home schooling your children, they are all mandated to get the required vaccines to attend public schools. If this were about your common flu vaccine I’d agree with you it would be crazy to mandate something with far lower effectiveness and hasn’t been so deadly or spread so easily.

Enjoy the slippery slope this will open up.

I'm glad the FDA approved it, and I hope more people get it now because of this, but monetarily punishing people and threatening their livelihood, sorry not a fan
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But bc Delta is self funded, Delta has to pay for 100% of those extra claims. I believe it is costing Delta $40,000 for every Covid patient who goes to the hospital. So the people who are not getting vaccinated are causing economic harm to the company. Next year when Delta looks at their current year claims and how much they funder and then determines the employees cost share and the % Delta will fund they will set the ee contributions higher to account for the increased claim costs. So the people who are incurring the $40,000 claims are causing every employee at Delta (and Delta itself ) to pay more.

I actually know the person working on the Delta account and I sent him an IM this morning

[10:55 AM] SXXXXX, Paul

Delta Air Lines is intensifying pressure on employees to get vaccinated with a series of increasingly burdensome requirements over the coming weeks and months, though it stopped short of the mandates that other airlines and businesses have put in plac
Why Delta Is Leaving Middle Seats Empty During the Pandemic (Published 2020)An executive for the airline explains its distancing practices and approach to cleaning at a time when its biggest rivals are selling all the seats they can.www.nytimes.com​[10:56 AM] Stamos, Paul P



On Sept. 30, unvaccinated workers will lose pay protection for employees who test positive for the virus and miss work while having to quarantine. Finally, starting on Nov. 1, any employee who remains unvaccinated will have to pay an additional $200 per month to remain on the company’s health care plan.

“This surcharge will be necessary to address the financial risk the decision to not vaccinate is creating for our company,” Mr. Bastian said. “In recent weeks since the rise of the B.1.617.2 variant, all Delta employees who have been hospitalized with Covid were not fully vaccinated.”






The average coronavirus-related hospitalization has cost the company about $40,000 per person, he said. Like many large employers, Delta insures its own work force, meaning it pays health costs directly and hires insurance companies to manage its plans.

As opposed to letting unvaccinated threaten the rest of the workforce, student body or other passengers on planes and public transit systems in the name of personal right to choose? It’s not like vaccine mandates are new, unless your home schooling your children, they are all mandated to get the required vaccines to attend public schools. If this were about your common flu vaccine I’d agree with you it would be crazy to mandate something with far lower effectiveness and hasn’t been so deadly or spread so easily.

I get it, still don't agree with it.
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As opposed to letting unvaccinated threaten the rest of the....

yup...the unvaccinated are basically a terrorist threat to the vaccinated.....probably a good time to build those camps to house and re-educate them

yup...the unvaccinated are basically a terrorist threat to the vaccinated.....probably a good time to build those camps to house and re-educate them
Your usual stellar contribution to the discussion, tell me why employers don’t have the right or why you think it’s not required, snarky gets old.
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tell me why employers don’t have the right or why you think it’s not required, snarky gets old.

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I never said or implied that they don't or shouldn't.....and I don't feel threatened by the unvaccinated

I believe in science .....


Portuguese neurologist António Egas Moniz, shared the Nobel Prize for Physiology or Medicine of 1949 for the "discovery of the therapeutic value of leucotomy in certain psychoses", "surgically induced childhood" the awarding of the prize has been subject to controversy.

There have been calls in the early 21st century for the Nobel Foundation to rescind the prize it awarded to Moniz for developing lobotomy, a decision that has been called an astounding error of judgment at the time and one that psychiatry might still need to learn from, but the Foundation declined to take action and has continued to host an article defending the results of the procedure.

Enjoy the slippery slope this will open up.

I'm glad the FDA approved it, and I hope more people get it now because of this, but monetarily punishing people and threatening their livelihood, sorry not a fan
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I get it, still don't agree with it.
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IMO we have been sliding down that slope for quite a while and some of these control freaks have been coming up with more and more all the time.

Same with me, don't agree with it or any forcing, shaming, cancelling, firing or any other tactics. More people need to speak out against this crap.

And If my position on liberty is one that has Mike making a statement about not knowing me and that is sad, then so be it.

IMO we have been sliding down that slope for quite a while and some of these control freaks have been coming up with more and more all the time.

Same with me, don't agree with it or any forcing, shaming, cancelling, firing or any other tactics. More people need to speak out against this crap.

And If my position on liberty is one that has Mike making a statement about not knowing me and that is sad, then so be it.

Why should I or your company have to pay more for insurance because you won't take something that will prevent you from getting sick? Also, if you can get people in our company sick bc you refuse to take a vaccine, why should we allow you to come in and infect us?

Why should I or your company have to pay more for insurance because you won't take something that will prevent you from getting sick?

Why should I pay more for my health insurance because other people won’t take care of their health?
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Also, if you can get people in our company sick bc you refuse to take a vaccine, why should we allow you to come in and infect us?

Statistically I believe if you are vaccinated and properly masked you are unlikely to get it and highly unlikely to end up in the hospital or dead particularly if you are healthy….

So you are assuming someone will just walk in and infect you…it’s a little paranoid
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Why should I pay more for my health insurance because other people won’t take care of their health?
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That's the age old question and most large employers have decided that the risk should be spread amongst the larger group. If you don't believe in insurance you can opt out. However if someone is going to put themselves at risk for higher claims due to their not getting a vaccine then they should be charged a surcharge. Just as I think smokers or someone who is morbidly obese should be charged a surcharge- or non-smokers or people who are not morbidly obese should be given a discount.
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Statistically I believe if you are vaccinated and properly masked you are unlikely to get it and highly unlikely to end up in the hospital or dead particularly if you are healthy….

So you are assuming someone will just walk in and infect you…it’s a little paranoid
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Correct being vaccinated should protect me from a serious enough case to hospitalize me. It's not paranoid to not want to be near people who are unvaccinated - it's common sense.
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That's the age old question and most large employers have decided that the risk should be spread amongst the larger group. If you don't believe in insurance you can opt out. However if someone is going to put themselves at risk for higher claims due to their not getting a vaccine then they should be charged a surcharge.

Just as I think smokers or someone who is morbidly obese should be charged a surcharge- or non-smokers or people who are not morbidly obese should be given a discount.
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you just argued against obamacare....morbidly obese and smokers and every other person that has spent decades destroying their health pay exactly what a healthy person pays and probably even less when you include other factors...

It's not paranoid to not want to be near people who are unvaccinated.

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yes it is....

you just argued against obamacare....morbidly obese and smokers and every other person that has spent decades destroying their health pay exactly what a healthy person pays and probably even less when you include other factors...

I argued against all insurance and that they should charge different rates for smokers and people with morbid obesity
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I argued against all insurance and that they should charge different rates for smokers and people with morbid obesity
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any other exceptions? or just those? what about the milk crate challenge?

any other exceptions? or just those? what about the milk crate challenge?

A few drinks on the weekend, surcharge
You drive a motorcycle, surcharge
You like to rock climb, surcharge
3 speeding tickets, surcharge
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Why should I or your company have to pay more for insurance because you won't take something that will prevent you from getting sick? Also, if you can get people in our company sick bc you refuse to take a vaccine, why should we allow you to come in and infect us?

If it prevents you from getting sick, why are you worried that an unvaccinated person will infect you. You’re vaccinated, no worries
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If it prevents you from getting sick, why are you worried that an unvaccinated person will infect you. You’re vaccinated, no worries
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I'm not sure if you realize that I can still get the virus
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I'm not sure if you realize that I can still get the virus
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And pass it to others.

I'm not sure if you realize that I can still get the virus
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Well aware, but you said you don’t get sick, so what’s the problem.

This virus isn’t going away for a long time. If the vaccine doesn’t stop anybody from getting it, then even if everybody is vaccinated, it is still going to propagate through society.
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Well aware, but you said you don’t get sick, so what’s the problem.

This virus isn’t going away for a long time. If the vaccine doesn’t stop anybody from getting it, then even if everybody is vaccinated, it is still going to propagate through society.
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Not necessarily. The more virus in the population increases the chances for more deadly mutations.

Not necessarily. The more virus in the population increases the chances for more deadly mutations.

Didn’t we just establish that the vaccine doesn’t stop you from getting the virus? So it shouldn’t be shrinking that footprint.
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Didn’t we just establish that the vaccine doesn’t stop you from getting the virus? So it shouldn’t be shrinking that footprint.
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The vaccine has shown to reduce the amount of virus in the population even if it's not 100%.

Well aware, but you said you don’t get sick, so what’s the problem.

This virus isn’t going away for a long time. If the vaccine doesn’t stop anybody from getting it, then even if everybody is vaccinated, it is still going to propagate through society.
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I don't think I ever said that I or someone else won't get sick. If you are vaccinated and get sick you're less likely to get seriously feel from it. We're lucky with the Delta variant that if you're vaccinated you're less likely to be seriously ill. We don't know what will happen with the next variant.
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I don't think I ever said that I or someone else won't get sick. If you are vaccinated and get sick you're less likely to get seriously feel from it. We're lucky with the Delta variant that if you're vaccinated you're less likely to be seriously ill. We don't know what will happen with the next variant.
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I read that there will be a variant soon that will be resistant to the vaccine...who will you get mad at then?

The vaccine has shown to reduce the amount of virus in the population even if it's not 100%.

the most vaccinated place on earth...

FL and it’s governor are calling you, it’s where you can be free from government overreach and die under your own terms.

the most vaccinated place on earth...

Meanwhile in Israel, healthcare providers are continuing their rapid rollout of vaccine booster shots, after the third doses were approved for the entire population over 12. As of Sunday evening, 2,102,426 Israelis — close to 23% of the population — had received a third shot.
Guess they’re doing it for fun
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FL and it’s governor are calling you, it’s where you can be free from government overreach and die under your own terms.

planning to head down in November:bl: 99.7926% of Florida residents have not died from covid if my math is correct....I'm healthy, vaccinated and I wear a N95 mask in places where it seems appropriate, I just believe that people are responsible to make their own decisions regarding some of these things and that there is a lot of overreach... which makes me an "anti-vaxxer" by the latest revision of definitions to suit some people....

Meanwhile in Israel, healthcare providers are continuing their rapid rollout of vaccine booster shots, after the third doses were approved for the entire population over 12. As of Sunday evening, 2,102,426 Israelis — close to 23% of the population — had received a third shot.
Guess they’re doing it for fun
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most vaccinated state in the country...be safe up there

Meanwhile in Israel, healthcare providers are continuing their rapid rollout of vaccine booster shots, after the third doses were approved for the entire population over 12. As of Sunday evening, 2,102,426 Israelis — close to 23% of the population — had received a third shot.
Guess they’re doing it for fun
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And it is a fact that the unvaccinated with natural immunity there are 13 times less likely to get the variant than the vaccinated.
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And it is a fact that the unvaccinated with natural immunity there are 13 times less likely to get the variant than the vaccinated.
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That assumes you survived getting the virus in the first place and hopefully didn’t infect or kill others in the process. The issue is the more this virus has a chance to evolve into the next more deadly variant, the more people die and it is the large unvaccinated population in the world and the US which is allowing it to happen. This latest variant has proven to be an issue for the young who may not have had issues with the initial virus, which again highlights the need to get more vaccinated.
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And it is a fact that the unvaccinated with natural immunity there are 13 times less likely to get the variant than the vaccinated.
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The group of unvaccinated persons are truly survivors of their first infection, this means that many of the weak and problematic health cases have died during their first infection and are no longer present in that group. If Covid has a mortality of 1.5%, then this subgroup is 240 cases for the 16000 large group. However: all those cases of weak and problematic health who likely die from an unprotected infection are still present in the group of SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees. So a selection was done where the most vulnerable persons were taken out of the unvaccinated group (death), but that selection is not done in the vaccinated group simply because it is not possible to predict at forehand who will die from an unprotected Covid infection. Although the groups are finally selected on equal risk factors, the above observation will always introduce a huge statistical bias.

I am quite sure that the group of cases found in the 'vaccine' group are largely those persons who would have died from an unprotected Covid infection. Because those persons are by definition not present in the unvaccinated group (they died during the first infection) you can explain the number of cases in both groups precisely by the above described mechanism. The conclusion then is that the found cases have nothing to do with 'better resistance due to an earlier infection'.

the most vaccinated place on earth...
I think they wrote this for you.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/08/31/covid-israel-hospitalization-rates-simpsons-paradox/

That assumes you survived getting the virus

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odds are pretty good...according to Johns Hopkins University’s mortality data as of Aug 6... 98.3% of people in the US who have gotten covid survived, we know that there were a lot of "covid deaths" from car accidents and stuff and that there are probably lots of unreported covid cases that would bring that number even higher...you sound as though 98.3% have died after getting it...very odd

I think they wrote this for you.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/08/31/covid-israel-hospitalization-rates-simpsons-paradox/

are you suggesting I don't think the vaccines work? I'm not paying wapo to read their article...I got vaccinated.... and not because I think they don't work...

odds are pretty good...according to Johns Hopkins University’s mortality data as of Aug 6... 98.3% of people in the US who have gotten covid survived, we know that there were a lot of "covid deaths" from car accidents and stuff and that there are probably lots of unreported covid cases that would bring that number even higher...you sound as though 98.3% have died after getting it...very odd

Boy how you can twist a post into something I didn’t say, doesn’t survive mean the group Bruce refers to lived, dahhh. Getting it and surviving doesn’t make you immune to the next variation and studies now show long term effects from getting covid are common, personally I’d rather be vaccinated once, twice and a third time rather than rolling the dice, which is exactly what you do if you don’t get vaccinated.

are you suggesting I don't think the vaccines work? I'm not paying wapo to read their article...I got vaccinated.... and not because I think they don't work...
Keep up please.

Boy the don’t mess with my freedoms crowd are not going to like the latest mandates, although it should help the majority of our workforce. Doing so should help the economy if the majority of the US workers get vaccinated. I get the argument, but we have lost numbers that basically make this a world war, why not join forces to beat the enemy and prevent that next variant that could be far worse?

TL : DR

The problems with vaccines are that racist white people on the right side of the aisle won't do their part.

It is not black people, hispanic people, asian people, or native American people that have low vaccination rates (they do - fortunately it is improving).

It is not Illinois, Colorado, Oregon, Virginia, each roughly on par with Florida, with vaccination rates - it is Florida that is the problem.

It is the Freedom loving white people that are the problem.

This has been insanely over f cking politicized.

And it is a fact that the unvaccinated with natural immunity there are 13 times less likely to get the variant than the vaccinated.
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I don't think this is true, Bruce.

I don't think this is true, Bruce.

It is from a study
The total context may be incomplete but that is the results that were publicized.


A new study from Israel looked at thousands of people who had either been vaccinated against COVID-19 or were unvaccinated but previously infected
Participants who were double jabbed were 5.96 times more likely to be infected and 7.13 times more likely to experience symptoms
After three months, risk of infection was 13.06 times higher among immunized individuals and they were 27 times more likely to experience symptoms
Researchers say the study has many limitations including the Indian 'Delta' variant being dominant and participants not being required to be tested
The study does not discourage vaccination because unvaccinated people are still more likely to be infected with Covid or hospitalized than vaccinated people
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It is from a study
The total context may be incomplete but that is the results that were publicized.


A new study from Israel looked at thousands of people who had either been vaccinated against COVID-19 or were unvaccinated but previously infected
Participants who were double jabbed were 5.96 times more likely to be infected and 7.13 times more likely to experience symptoms
After three months, risk of infection was 13.06 times higher among immunized individuals and they were 27 times more likely to experience symptoms
Researchers say the study has many limitations including the Indian 'Delta' variant being dominant and participants not being required to be tested
The study does not discourage vaccination because unvaccinated people are still more likely to be infected with Covid or hospitalized than vaccinated people
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Have you been sniffing the Tightbond again ?? “A study”. What study? To think that these vaccines don’t work is ridiculous.
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I read an interesting dive into the various studies. Several hypotheses can be drawn:


Previous Covid infection is one of the best defenses against getting C19 again, or the Delta.


Getting vaccinated on top of a previous infection is even more safe.

Pfizer seems to have most lost of effectiveness


https://maximumtruth.substack.com/p/deep-dive-should-naturally-immune?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&utm_source=twitter

I read an interesting dive into the various studies. Several hypotheses can be drawn:


Previous Covid infection is one of the best defenses against getting C19 again, or the Delta.


Getting vaccinated on top of a previous infection is even more safe.

Pfizer seems to have most lost of effectiveness


https://maximumtruth.substack.com/p/deep-dive-should-naturally-immune?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&utm_source=twitter

We will all no doubt know more going forward, but I’d agree with the conclusion at the end, getting the vaccine regardless of your vaccine status is good for society and probably especially valuable to anyone living a more risky public life.

I read an interesting dive into the various studies. Several hypotheses can be drawn:


Previous Covid infection is one of the best defenses against getting C19 again, or the Delta.


Getting vaccinated on top of a previous infection is even more safe.

Pfizer seems to have most lost of effectiveness


https://maximumtruth.substack.com/p/deep-dive-should-naturally-immune?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&utm_source=twitter

What I don’t see in the comparison of the difference in effectiveness between having previously had COVID and the vaccine is the fact that if you had Covid previously you survived.
Taking the most vulnerable out of the data would skew the results.
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Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

just curious..."IF" they discover a way to inject something with the vaccine into you or implant something under your skin that will let the government know that you have Covid or whatever so that they can make sure that you are not a threat to others...would you jump right in line? Would you support mandates for this science?...it would be "good for society and probably especially valuable to anyone living a more risky public life"..think about the possibilities:laugha:


https://news.yahoo.com/pentagon-unveils-microchip-senses-covid-231239955.html

just curious..."IF" they discover a way to inject something with the vaccine into you or implant something under your skin that will let the government know that you have Covid or whatever so that they can make sure that you are not a threat to others...would you jump right in line? Would you support mandates for this science?...it would be "good for society and probably especially valuable to anyone living a more risky public life"..think about the possibilities:laugha:


https://news.yahoo.com/pentagon-unveils-microchip-senses-covid-231239955.html

It’s that kind of fu*ked up scare tactics that keep the unvaccinated hesitant, you have a cell phone don’t you, what you don’t think anyone knows where you are or what your up to.

It’s that kind of fu*ked up scare tactics that keep the unvaccinated hesitant, you have a cell phone don’t you, what you don’t think anyone knows where you are or what your up to.

"IF" it was a simple question...you responded like a triggered nut...calm down

"IF" it was a simple question...you responded like a triggered nut...calm down

Plenty of weak minded idiots that take what they read on the internet as real news, if you don’t think social media has a big influence on those people your kindling yourself. Now I’m pretty sure this site isn’t getting the views that would make a bit of difference, but put your post on a public Facebook forum, then it gets shared and shared fueling further distrust.
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Plenty of weak minded idiots that take what they read on the internet as real news, if you don’t think social media has a big influence on those people your kindling yourself. Now I’m pretty sure this site isn’t getting the views that would make a bit of difference, but put your post on a public Facebook forum, then it gets shared and shared fueling further distrust.
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I would venture a guess, no I’d make a wager that most of those you see holding “covid is a hoax” signs get all their information from memes.

Have you been sniffing the Tightbond again ?? “A study”. What study? To think that these vaccines don’t work is ridiculous.
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I never said the vaccines don’t work
Stop putting words in my mouth
I posted what was said about the Variant
Lay off the pipe
;)
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I read an interesting dive into the various studies. Several hypotheses can be drawn:


Previous Covid infection is one of the best defenses against getting C19 again, or the Delta.


Getting vaccinated on top of a previous infection is even more safe.


Cool
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Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Plenty of weak minded idiots....

your kindling yourself.


Now I’m pretty sure this site isn’t getting the views that would make a bit of difference, but put your post on a public Facebook forum, then it gets shared and shared fueling further distrust. I probably need to be heavily censored

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good job genius....

Oh the irony and hypocrisy, Fox News anchors railing about vaccine mandates, when their own company has a good one and 90% of employees are vaccinated.