Disaster. Absolute Disaster. Owned by 4 Presidents - not just this guy, though this guy managed to turn the end to sh!t.

The Afghans also own this, very much, more than anyone really. For 20 years, most held their finger up to see which way the wind would blow and most chose not to fight for their safety and prosperity. Some did and will pay for it.

Prayers for our troops, sons and daughters, being sent in to save those friendlies still there.....

Prayers for our troops, sons and daughters, being sent in to save those friendlies still there.....




^^^ THIS

Sad situation and it will be terrible for Women/girls. I just don't know what else could have been done. I thought Trump (and the other Pres.) did the right thing but the govern. was corrupt, the people had no trust in it and couldn't/wouldn't stand up to demand accountability.

We tried but how much more $ and lives could we "waste" (using the word loosely). We could have been there for 100 hundred years and it wouldn't be better.

Nothing to worry about.
Joe will have the situation under control as soon as he figures out which door to enter 🤪
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Plenty of blame to spread around

"started by GOP president

"peak troop strength under Dem president

"agreement to leave struck by R

"departure carried out by D

"every one learned what history should have taught: local fighter always knows he will outlast the foreign occupier"

Here’s a basic explanation of how the Taliban accomplished their goal, it’s been twenty years in the making

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/how-the-taliban-did-it-inside-the-operational-art-of-its-military-victory/
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Mike Pompeo met with Taliban Head of the Political Office Mullah Beradar on September 12, 2020 and November 21, 2020

Beradar is now set to become the new President of Afghanistan.

President Trump had Beradar released from a Pakistani prison in 2018.

In February 2020, the USA government without the Afghanistan government being present, committed them to release 5000 Taliban prisoners. Eventually the Ghani government did and watched them go back into the fight against the people who released them.

The demise of the Afghan government started the first day we sat down with the Taliban and excluded the Afghan government.

And surprise the Russians are not leaving their embassy. I wonder why they feel so confident of safety in Afghanistan of all places?
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A lot of blame to go around. We definitely should have had a stronger ready presence to ensure Americans could get out safely. Sounds like a lot are still there. Afghanistan needs to decide what they want to look like in the future, not the West.

Mike Pompeo met with Taliban Head of the Political Office Mullah Beradar on September 12, 2020 and November 21, 2020

Beradar is now set to become the new President of Afghanistan.

President Trump had Beradar released from a Pakistani prison in 2018.

In February 2020, the USA government without the Afghanistan government being present, committed them to release 5000 Taliban prisoners. Eventually the Ghani government did and watched them go back into the fight against the people who released them.

The demise of the Afghan government started the first day we sat down with the Taliban and excluded the Afghan government.

And surprise the Russians are not leaving their embassy. I wonder why they feel so confident of safety in Afghanistan of all places?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device


And it's Trump's fault.


A lot of blame to go around. We definitely should have had a stronger ready presence to ensure Americans could get out safely. Sounds like a lot are still there. Afghanistan needs to decide what they want to look like in the future, not the West.

True. AFG needed to fight for their own future.

We should not have closed Baghram until the end. We should have kept the aviation support and intel running, both critical to what part of ANA was fighting.

And we have a Rep. from Colo. joking about Afghans filmed falling off a U.S. military plane to their deaths on Monday.

Where do we find these people?

And it's Trump's fault.

You expected different?
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What we are seeing happening on the Ground in Afghanistan it not America's fault Trump or Bidens fault.. this solely falls on the AFGHAN ARMY who allowed the Taliban to walk right in!

I have been listening to the all the Talking Heads talking about they should have done this or they should have dont that BLA BLA BLA


They all seem to Have this Movie idea of how Military operations are even conducted ... that we push a button and problems are solved .. not sure how you do this draw down. When your 300k security detail disappeared over night .. I guess we should feel Lucky that the Taliban are not in a Hurry, because there's nothing we could do to stop them.. and I think they understand it's in their best interest to wait Seeing they been waiting 20 years what's another few weeks

And My son Runs C-17s out of Travis and they have been flying Afghan mission for months not just yesterday ..

As for Some Not here. playing the BS card .. feeling bad for Vets who deployed to Afghanistan and how bad it must hurt to see your sacrifice wasted all I say to them All please stop the Faux outrage

Americans need to stop worrying about EGO or optics and need to accept the fact we have lost in Afghanistan! American is not perfect and everyone wishes this would have turned out differently but it did not ... all our Nato allies left in June .. And no matter how many more bombs we drop or how longer we stayed would not have change this out Come ....

I read this elsewhere ... Biden did what other POTUS wanted to do but wouldn't or couldn't . leave... He Just Torn off the Bandaid (afghanistan) done! end of story like it or Not ..

And it's Trump's fault.






You expected different?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URf8gAdrDTk

Now as Taliban are taking over Afghanistan (again) we need to look at Taliban. Some are saying the Taliban kicked out the Soviet Union from Afghanistan (totally untrue). So let's do this properly. Who are the Taliban vs Mujahideen vs Pashtu vs Afghan.

There are Maganutters, War-mongering Repulsicans and Saudi bots on the rampage now, attempting to extinguish the Saudi connection to the Taliban. So this Thread is necessary. We need to understand. But we go to the beginning. That is the only way to understand.

The most valuable road for human economic history, for over 3,000 years was the Silk Road, or more accurately Jade Road. It connected the largest landmass, Eurasia, where most of the planet's population live, allowed Europe to trade with China, & all in middle.

Silk Road is not one road, it is a series of roads. One side-road leads to India. That road goes through the mountains, through the ONLY pass, called Khyber Pass. This was the most valuable choke point until the modern shipping. Was the 'Suez Canal' of its age.

As Khyber Pass was the only mountain pass to India, you can imagine it was a rich opportunity for bandits. Those enterprising land pirates became known as the Pashtu. Draw a circle 100 miles around this pass, you have region the size of the state of Virginia.

So for CENTURIES, the Pashtu people were known to collect their fees from travellers on the Silk Road. And nobody was able to take this region from them. Literally, none of the great empires ever succeeded from Alexander the Great to Genghis Khan.
That gives a firm foundation to build a warrior nation. The Pashtu.

They are Muslim, but not like neighboring Iran, who are Shia, the Pashtu are Sunni Muslim, so they align with Saudi Arabia and against Iran. Bear this in mind, with the propaganda parrots.

In the last 200 years, the main Empires that faced off, on both sides of the Khyber Pass were the British Empire (in India, South) and the Russian Empire (North). Afghanistan emerged as the buffer nation between these two. It is 5 miles West of the Khyber pass.

Afghanistan is far larger than the Pashtu region, about the same size as Texas in area. But HALF of Aghan population are Pashtu. There is no other dominant ethnic group, so Pashtu people get to rule Afghanistan. Afghanistan population is about 32 million.

From the early 1800s, the rulers of Afghanistan have played The Great Game, pitting Russian & British rulers against each other & temporarily siding with whoever was the weaker

Pashtu are EXPERTS at pretending to be on your side, while being on their OWN side

Every time the British got fed up, and tried to take over Afghanistan, they lost. Last time in 1921. Same for Russians. They too lost. Last time in 1989 (as Soviet Union). NO EMPIRE has EVER held this region. So that is the Pashtu who form half of Afghanistan

WHO ARE THE MUJAHIDEEN

Now towards the Taliban. A Marxist (Communist) ruler came to power in Afghanistan in 1973. He aligned Afghanistan with the Soviet Union. Many Pashtu felt, oh-oh, now we are losing to Russia & started guerilla war against the Afghan Govt

The Mujahideen (Mujahidin) were Muslim religious warriors against their OWN Marxist-Communist government then in power, in Afghanistan. They were supported by.. Saudi Arabia of course, as well as from their Pashtu relatives in Pakistan, across the border

When the Soviets invaded in 1979, the Mujahideen guerilla warrior army was already in existence and fighting, who turned from fighting a corrupt government in Kabul, to the invader Soviet Army. Mujahideen at this point supported by Saudi & Pakistan

At Soviet invasion, the BRITISH felt a need to stand up against Russia (Soviets) from historical context & supported the Mujahideen fighters, giving them weapons. USA, after Vietnam loss, was doing very little but some token support. The main funding was Saudi

Because of the Pashtu mountain region of centuries of crime, the NATURAL method for Mujahideen warriors was to go to Afghanistan to fight, & retreat to Pakistan side to rest, rearm & recuperate. The Soviets were not going to invade into Pakistan to chase them

This led to refugee camps on Pakistan side. And to TRAINING camps. Trained by who? The Saudis and Pakistanis. And to educate the Mujahideen. Education by who? The Saudis set up extremist religious schools 'Madrasa' to teach fundamentalist Sharia law

The Mujahideen were able to recruit Muslim soldiers to come fight to liberate the Muslim nation of Afghanistan from the Marxist (Communist) and atheist Soviet invaders. One of many foreign volunteers was US military-trained Saudi Arabian named Osama Bin Laden.

The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan lasted 10 years. They never got full control. The Saudis & Pakistanis supported the Mujahideen from the start. British & UAE helped early. Americans help came later, but provided Stinger missiles to shoot down the helicopters

The Mujahideen are some of the bravest, toughest warriors the planet has ever seen, and in 10 years, they kicked out the most powerful army the planet had ever seen. Outnumbered and outgunned to ridiculous levels. They won clean and clear. Soviets lost totally

THE TALIBAN

The Taliban had NOTHING to do with any earlier fights Afghanistan had with invaders, and nothing to do with Russia or Soviet Union invasion either. The Taliban did not EXIST. They were born AFTER the Soviets had left.

You remember, BEFORE the Soviet invasion, in 1979, Afghanistan was in a Civil War. So that was just paused for 10 years, to kick out the Russkies, and then the Civil War resumed

THAT is where suddenly the Taliban is formed. To turn Afghanistan into Sharia Law

The Taliban means literally 'educated' and refers to fanatical students from Saudi taught Madrasa schools. The most fundamentalist of students, who think SAUDI ARABIA is not fundamentalist enough !!! (Saudi is FAR worse than Iran, and some think Iran is bad)

The Soviet invasion ended 1989. The Afghanistan Civil War resumed immediately

The Taliban... was not founded until 1994 by two fanatical clerics, Mullah Omar & Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar. They took control of Aghanistan in 1996 (winning the Civil War)

The rogue criminal terrorist led nation of Afghanistan under Mullah Omar was in existence until the US invasion in 2001. During those 5 years only THREE countries recognized the monster nation: Saudi Arabia, Pakistan & UAE. Don't tell me Saudis aren't involved

During the Taliban controlled Afghanistan they turned it into a brutal Sharia Law nation. Then when US and NATO forces invaded in 2001, Taliban retreated into caves to fight this latest invasion. We knew that nobody can take the area. That was a doomed mission

Who supported Taliban from 2001 to 2021? Saudi Arabia of course. It was regularly reported. Even the State Department KNEW this but kept it a secret, as leaked State Dept documents revealed in 2009. Iran sees the Taliban as enemy, so of course Saudi fund them

It gets FAR WORSE with Trump & his corruption with Saudi Arabia. Trump among other things wanted to invite the Taliban to Camp David on Sept 11, 2019. Trump LIFTED SANCTIONS against the Taliban. And Trump released 5,000 Taliban WARRIORS FROM PRISON in Aug 2020

What of Taliban leaders? in 2010 (during Obama) the number 2 guy of Taliban, Mullah Agdar Ghani Baradar was captured and taken into prison in Afghanistan

Then in 2013 the number 1 guy Mullah Omar died of natural causes (Taliban kept this a secret till 2015)

Then in the ultimate #^&#^&#^&#^&-you to the world, Trump released the co-founder of Taliban, Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar in 2018 - in deal negotiated by Mike Pompeo, a war criminal.

This monster will now run the Taliban controlled Afghanistan

Have a nice day

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URf8gAdrDTk

Now as Taliban are taking over Afghanistan (again) we need to look at Taliban. Some are saying the Taliban kicked out the Soviet Union from Afghanistan (totally untrue). So let's do this properly. Who are the Taliban vs Mujahideen vs Pashtu vs Afghan.

There are Maganutters, War-mongering Repulsicans and Saudi bots on the rampage now, attempting to extinguish the Saudi connection to the Taliban. So this Thread is necessary. We need to understand. But we go to the beginning. That is the only way to understand.

The most valuable road for human economic history, for over 3,000 years was the Silk Road, or more accurately Jade Road. It connected the largest landmass, Eurasia, where most of the planet's population live, allowed Europe to trade with China, & all in middle.

Silk Road is not one road, it is a series of roads. One side-road leads to India. That road goes through the mountains, through the ONLY pass, called Khyber Pass. This was the most valuable choke point until the modern shipping. Was the 'Suez Canal' of its age.

As Khyber Pass was the only mountain pass to India, you can imagine it was a rich opportunity for bandits. Those enterprising land pirates became known as the Pashtu. Draw a circle 100 miles around this pass, you have region the size of the state of Virginia.

So for CENTURIES, the Pashtu people were known to collect their fees from travellers on the Silk Road. And nobody was able to take this region from them. Literally, none of the great empires ever succeeded from Alexander the Great to Genghis Khan.
That gives a firm foundation to build a warrior nation. The Pashtu.

They are Muslim, but not like neighboring Iran, who are Shia, the Pashtu are Sunni Muslim, so they align with Saudi Arabia and against Iran. Bear this in mind, with the propaganda parrots.

In the last 200 years, the main Empires that faced off, on both sides of the Khyber Pass were the British Empire (in India, South) and the Russian Empire (North). Afghanistan emerged as the buffer nation between these two. It is 5 miles West of the Khyber pass.

Afghanistan is far larger than the Pashtu region, about the same size as Texas in area. But HALF of Aghan population are Pashtu. There is no other dominant ethnic group, so Pashtu people get to rule Afghanistan. Afghanistan population is about 32 million.

From the early 1800s, the rulers of Afghanistan have played The Great Game, pitting Russian & British rulers against each other & temporarily siding with whoever was the weaker

Pashtu are EXPERTS at pretending to be on your side, while being on their OWN side

Every time the British got fed up, and tried to take over Afghanistan, they lost. Last time in 1921. Same for Russians. They too lost. Last time in 1989 (as Soviet Union). NO EMPIRE has EVER held this region. So that is the Pashtu who form half of Afghanistan

WHO ARE THE MUJAHIDEEN

Now towards the Taliban. A Marxist (Communist) ruler came to power in Afghanistan in 1973. He aligned Afghanistan with the Soviet Union. Many Pashtu felt, oh-oh, now we are losing to Russia & started guerilla war against the Afghan Govt

The Mujahideen (Mujahidin) were Muslim religious warriors against their OWN Marxist-Communist government then in power, in Afghanistan. They were supported by.. Saudi Arabia of course, as well as from their Pashtu relatives in Pakistan, across the border

When the Soviets invaded in 1979, the Mujahideen guerilla warrior army was already in existence and fighting, who turned from fighting a corrupt government in Kabul, to the invader Soviet Army. Mujahideen at this point supported by Saudi & Pakistan

At Soviet invasion, the BRITISH felt a need to stand up against Russia (Soviets) from historical context & supported the Mujahideen fighters, giving them weapons. USA, after Vietnam loss, was doing very little but some token support. The main funding was Saudi

Because of the Pashtu mountain region of centuries of crime, the NATURAL method for Mujahideen warriors was to go to Afghanistan to fight, & retreat to Pakistan side to rest, rearm & recuperate. The Soviets were not going to invade into Pakistan to chase them

This led to refugee camps on Pakistan side. And to TRAINING camps. Trained by who? The Saudis and Pakistanis. And to educate the Mujahideen. Education by who? The Saudis set up extremist religious schools 'Madrasa' to teach fundamentalist Sharia law

The Mujahideen were able to recruit Muslim soldiers to come fight to liberate the Muslim nation of Afghanistan from the Marxist (Communist) and atheist Soviet invaders. One of many foreign volunteers was US military-trained Saudi Arabian named Osama Bin Laden.

The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan lasted 10 years. They never got full control. The Saudis & Pakistanis supported the Mujahideen from the start. British & UAE helped early. Americans help came later, but provided Stinger missiles to shoot down the helicopters

The Mujahideen are some of the bravest, toughest warriors the planet has ever seen, and in 10 years, they kicked out the most powerful army the planet had ever seen. Outnumbered and outgunned to ridiculous levels. They won clean and clear. Soviets lost totally

THE TALIBAN

The Taliban had NOTHING to do with any earlier fights Afghanistan had with invaders, and nothing to do with Russia or Soviet Union invasion either. The Taliban did not EXIST. They were born AFTER the Soviets had left.

You remember, BEFORE the Soviet invasion, in 1979, Afghanistan was in a Civil War. So that was just paused for 10 years, to kick out the Russkies, and then the Civil War resumed

THAT is where suddenly the Taliban is formed. To turn Afghanistan into Sharia Law

The Taliban means literally 'educated' and refers to fanatical students from Saudi taught Madrasa schools. The most fundamentalist of students, who think SAUDI ARABIA is not fundamentalist enough !!! (Saudi is FAR worse than Iran, and some think Iran is bad)

The Soviet invasion ended 1989. The Afghanistan Civil War resumed immediately

The Taliban... was not founded until 1994 by two fanatical clerics, Mullah Omar & Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar. They took control of Aghanistan in 1996 (winning the Civil War)

The rogue criminal terrorist led nation of Afghanistan under Mullah Omar was in existence until the US invasion in 2001. During those 5 years only THREE countries recognized the monster nation: Saudi Arabia, Pakistan & UAE. Don't tell me Saudis aren't involved

During the Taliban controlled Afghanistan they turned it into a brutal Sharia Law nation. Then when US and NATO forces invaded in 2001, Taliban retreated into caves to fight this latest invasion. We knew that nobody can take the area. That was a doomed mission

Who supported Taliban from 2001 to 2021? Saudi Arabia of course. It was regularly reported. Even the State Department KNEW this but kept it a secret, as leaked State Dept documents revealed in 2009. Iran sees the Taliban as enemy, so of course Saudi fund them

It gets FAR WORSE with Trump & his corruption with Saudi Arabia. Trump among other things wanted to invite the Taliban to Camp David on Sept 11, 2019. Trump LIFTED SANCTIONS against the Taliban. And Trump released 5,000 Taliban WARRIORS FROM PRISON in Aug 2020

What of Taliban leaders? in 2010 (during Obama) the number 2 guy of Taliban, Mullah Agdar Ghani Baradar was captured and taken into prison in Afghanistan

Then in 2013 the number 1 guy Mullah Omar died of natural causes (Taliban kept this a secret till 2015)

Then in the ultimate #^&#^&#^&#^&-you to the world, Trump released the co-founder of Taliban, Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar in 2018 - in deal negotiated by Mike Pompeo, a war criminal.

This monster will now run the Taliban controlled Afghanistan

Have a nice day

Source? I liked this read.... The end was going to be a sh itshow no matter what.

just read this story


RNC removes page from website touting Trump peace deal..

"It is time for Joe Biden to resign in disgrace for what he has allowed to happen to Afghanistan," Trump said in the statement.

"It shouldn't be a big deal, because he wasn't elected legitimately in the first place," he added.



classic :kewl:

Source? I liked this read.... The end was going to be a sh itshow no matter what.

Written by a Finn, Tomi Ahonen
The only clear error I see is that Baradar was imprisoned in Pakistan, not Afghanistan.
Lots of evidence of Saudi involvement in extremist Sunni training, Osama bin Laden was not an outlier. The Wahhabi followers are just as wacky as the Khomeini ones.
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just read this story


RNC removes page from website touting Trump peace deal..

"It is time for Joe Biden to resign in disgrace for what he has allowed to happen to Afghanistan," Trump said in the statement.

"It shouldn't be a big deal, because he wasn't elected legitimately in the first place," he added.



classic :kewl:


If only Trump wasn’t talked out of his desire to bring the Taliban leaders to camp David on the 9-11 anniversary, he could have negotiated a calm peaceful solution, in exchange for land for a new golf course wink wink.

OUCH...democrat on democrat crime...

Congressmen Jim Langevin of Rhode Island, a Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee, has published a scathing piece on Biden’s Afghanistan withdrawal at Foreign Policy.

“Public executions and forced marriages are reportedly back. People are fleeing. The Taliban are in Kabul, and the government has fallen. This is a catastrophe,” Langevin writes. “This negligence [from the Biden administration] was par for the course for the last U.S. administration. I am disappointed to see it now. At minimum, the Biden administration owed our Afghan allies of 20 years a real plan. They also owed it to our military service members and their families, particularly the men and women in uniform and their families who gave the ultimate sacrifice. Not to mention the women and girls of Afghanistan who are now experiencing a devastating new reality.”


I actually don't blame Biden....I'm pretty sure nobody is letting him make any decisions on anything.....that would be foolish ;)

Politicians always have a simple answer
To evacuate the people who helped us would have required the Ghani government to cooperate. They didn’t because to do so would add to their increasingly visible end.
All the people in power outside the administration in Afghanistan saw what was coming and did their best to make sure they remained in power. It’s a tribal society and will be for the foreseeable future.
Currently the evangelical Muslims are in charge, God squads are dangerous in any country.
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Reports from Kabul say:
At kabul airport, military side, more order than before. Evacuations picking up. Seeing more Afghan families being taken through. Planes taking off. Base well guarded.
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keep seeing the talking heads saying re open Bagram these people are nuts

Bagram is 1.5 drive from Kabul Americans and some visa holders cant even walk and get to the Airport (some say) and is surrounded by the taliban who know where other americans are in the country ,,

then the talking heads they are like well Just push out the security perimeter.. with what ? its a City not some Airfield in the middle of nowhere ..

https://rumble.com/vlbl2v-the-u.s.-government-has-been-lying-about-afghanistan-for-two-decades.html

Right, because there was a magical way for the US to leave that didn’t cause the Afghan army and govt to collapse. Trump had that plan. He kept it with his taxes and healthcare plans.
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Pete obviously did not watch the video Detbuch posted if that is what his last reply was referring to.

If you actually listen to the whole thing with any bit of critical thinking it may open up your mind to what goes on. But I am not speaking to know-it-alls since we know their minds are closed.

Try this one, it is shorter


https://video.foxnews.com/v/6268475740001#sp=show-clips

Ahh, the deep state strikes again
Three people paid millions by Murdoch said it on TV, it must be true
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Pete obviously did not watch the video Detbuch posted if that is what his last reply was referring to.

If you actually listen to the whole thing with any bit of critical thinking it may open up your mind to what goes on. But I am not speaking to know-it-alls since we know their minds are closed.

Try this one, it is shorter


https://video.foxnews.com/v/6268475740001#sp=show-clips

We know who minds are closed

Tucker Carlson has claimed that bringing Afghan refugees to the US would be an “invasion”

And if your on his show that doesn’t say much about your standards
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And the beat goes on.

In our 242 year history the USA has only had 16 years without us being entangled in a war, time to stop the trend and put all that wasted money to better use.

Civil war in 3... 2...

Civil war in 3... 2...

You might not be to far off there, Karnack
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Look at the census data, the drop in white population and the increases in other ethnic groups and you can understand what’s happening in politics, no mistery there.

I think the 5 million first time gun purchases in 2020 is a more telling stat for that than the census.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I think the 5 million first time gun purchases in 2020 is a more telling stat for that than the census.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Well, now that we have a better idea of how many armed white nationalists are running around it's understandable people are concerned.

Yes, they’re everywhere, can’t swing a dead cat without hitting one. :rolleyes:

I bet you there’s one under your bed right now.

The summer of love and calls to defund the police wouldn’t have anything to do with it.
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Well, now that we have a better idea of how many armed white nationalists are running around it's understandable people are concerned.

yup, they will no doubt be responsible for all of the gun violence across America this weekend....let's check back on Monday and see...OK?

A little perspective on Afghanistan. For example more than 20000 people have been evacuated from there without a single loss of an American life. At same time 5000 Americans have died from Covid and 500 have died from guns.
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A little perspective on Afghanistan. For example more than 20000 people have been evacuated from there without a single loss of an American life. At same time 5000 Americans have died from Covid and 500 have died from guns.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

this is obviously because there are no unvaccinated armed white nationalists are running around in Afghanistan....

Latest Afghanistan evacuation numbers from the White House this morning: From 8/22 at 3a ET to 8/23 at 3a ET, 28 US military flights evacuated ~10,400 people from Kabul and 61 coalition aircraft evacuated ~5,900 people. That brings the total to ~37,000 ppl evacuated since 8/14.

The win is that we are getting out, and getting people out, and by getting out freeing ourselves to defend our national interests in a manner where the means match the ends, and the ends match our interests.

Zero US casualties in the Afghanistan withdrawal. Zero.

Now tell me the alternate scenario, given that the State Department advised Americans to leave Afghanistan months ago, before the fall of Kabul & closure of the airport, what exactly is it that Biden should have done to force them to leave?

And one should think that after 20 years, if we haven’t inspired 89 million Afghans to oppose 100 thousand Taliban, what more can we do? We can’t stay forever; Afghan people need to determine their future, and we are evacuating what might be the strongest opposition.

Latest Afghanistan evacuation numbers from the White House this morning: From 8/22 at 3a ET to 8/23 at 3a ET, 28 US military flights evacuated ~10,400 people from Kabul and 61 coalition aircraft evacuated ~5,900 people. That brings the total to ~37,000 ppl evacuated since 8/14.

The win is that we are getting out, and getting people out, and by getting out freeing ourselves to defend our national interests in a manner where the means match the ends, and the ends match our interests.

Zero US casualties in the Afghanistan withdrawal. Zero.

Now tell me the alternate scenario, given that the State Department advised Americans to leave Afghanistan months ago, before the fall of Kabul & closure of the airport, what exactly is it that Biden should have done to force them to leave?

And one should think that after 20 years, if we haven’t inspired 89 million Afghans to oppose 100 thousand Taliban, what more can we do? We can’t stay forever; Afghan people need to determine their future, and we are evacuating what might be the strongest opposition.



You making up those numbers or your got a source to back them up ?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

We should not have occupied Afghanistan to begin with. If they had Osama and wouldn't turn him over to us, we should have just carpet bombed that country and left a message on top of the rubble for the survivors and leaders that we would be back with more if they messed with us. I said that here on the forum way back then.

Having not done that, but intruding ourselves into their wonderful Islamic nation, we should only have done it after totally defeating the Taliban, totally wiped it out, then peacefully cleaning up the mess we made, and offer them assistance in rebuilding and occupying for a while.

We needed to leave. Maybe there was a better way. No opinion on that. Maybe there is a lesson to be learned. Islam is not peaceful. Nor is it compatible with our culture nor with democracy. Reforming it so that it would be compatible with Western values would be making it something totally different than it actually is.

So genocide would have been your solution, glad to know where you stand.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

You making up those numbers or your got a source to back them up ?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/08/22/remarks-by-president-biden-on-tropical-storm-henri-and-the-evacuation-operation-in-afghanistan/
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For those who love to make historical comparisons, many of whom know nothing about history, the US military evacuated around 7k people from Saigon. The US military has already evacuated 37k people from Afghanistan. Bet you haven't read or seen that.

I am still puzzled when people insist there must have been a better way? when there clearly was a plan and it was told to the whole world Aug 31st .. we would be out! then the Afghan army cut and ran away throwing things into disorder It’s call the fog of war… Sure it’s ugly to watch but let’s be realistic if the Afghan army hadn’t ran we wouldn’t be in this situation, and it’s not our military might that is allowing us to keep removing people it’s the Taliban who is controlling it.. 5 well placed mortar rounds on the runway can stop everything..

the right keeps changing what upsets them 1st it was the optics ! then it was the fate of the poor Afghan women and young girls and translators! then it became equipment left behind which was the Afghan army’s equipment not ours ! then they are upset that same Afghans they were worried about leaving are coming to America ! And now they are upset we are speaking and dealing with the Taliban to insure Americans safety .. yet they cheered the last guy’s efforts..

You would think Republicans would be supporting what ever efforts are required to secure Americans and as many Afghans as we can.. but it seems they are more interested in doing what they do best complaining while providing no solution…. Other than drop bombs on foreheads and acting disappointed that there hasn’t been mass casualties
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

let’s be realistic if the Afghan army hadn’t ran we wouldn’t be in this situation

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

victim shaming.....

the right keeps changing what upsets them …. Other than drop bombs on foreheads and acting disappointed that there hasn’t been mass casualties

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

:huh:

the right keeps changing what upsets them
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

damn right-wingers!

Former prime minister Tony Blair, slammed President Biden’s chaotic withdrawal from the country on Sunday.

“The abandonment of Afghanistan and its people is tragic, dangerous, unnecessary, not in their interests and not in ours,” Blair wrote in a statement published on his organization’s website.

Blair’s comments come after Biden denied at a press conference Friday that America’s reputation has been damaged and that U.S. allies have lost faith in our ability to conduct foreign policy amid the botched Afghanistan pull-out.

The former prime minister criticized the U.S. departure from Afghanistan as a politically motivated appeasement to constituents.

damn right-wingers!

Former prime minister Tony Blair, slammed President Biden’s chaotic withdrawal from the country on Sunday.

“The abandonment of Afghanistan and its people is tragic, dangerous, unnecessary, not in their interests and not in ours,” Blair wrote in a statement published on his organization’s website.

Blair’s comments come after Biden denied at a press conference Friday that America’s reputation has been damaged and that U.S. allies have lost faith in our ability to conduct foreign policy amid the botched Afghanistan pull-out.

The former prime minister criticized the U.S. departure from Afghanistan as a politically motivated appeasement to constituents.

Maybe the Brits should have stayed after 2014, but remember when Sherlock Holmes met Dr Watson in the 1800s, the Dr had just returned from the war in Afghanistan.
Fiction but historically correct.
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damn right-wingers!

Former prime minister Tony Blair, slammed President Biden’s chaotic withdrawal from the country on Sunday.

“The abandonment of Afghanistan and its people is tragic, dangerous, unnecessary, not in their interests and not in ours,” Blair wrote in a statement published on his organization’s website.

Blair’s comments come after Biden denied at a press conference Friday that America’s reputation has been damaged and that U.S. allies have lost faith in our ability to conduct foreign policy amid the botched Afghanistan pull-out.

The former prime minister criticized the U.S. departure from Afghanistan as a politically motivated appeasement to constituents.


And what’s your point he’s not even American. And how was anything I mentioned not true
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victim shaming.....

Wow a 300k army are victims amazing
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As mentioned Britain withdrew its last combat troops in 2014

So Blair really has no dog in the fight does he
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So genocide would have been your solution, glad to know where you stand.


Glad to make you glad. We committed genocide on the Nazis of WWII. It worked pretty well.

And what’s your point he’s not even American.

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so?

Twenty years, trillions of dollars, almost 200K lives lost, now almost 50K evacuated without loss of life, the right and hawks are struggling for any win.

Glad to make you glad. We committed genocide on the Nazis of WWII. It worked pretty well.

We didn’t commit genocide in the Second World War, you’re as astute a history student as the Stable Genius.
The Taliban troops comprise about eighty thousand of the 38 million people living in Afghanistan.
The Stable Genius also was a proponent of genocide, birds of a feather ain’t ya
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Twenty years, trillions of dollars, almost 200K lives lost, now almost 50K evacuated without loss of life,

.

definitely a huge success...biden should get a nobel prize:hihi:

definitely a huge success...biden should get a nobel prize:hihi:

You might be correct for once

As a marine who served in Afghanistan twice said, he can explain it in two sentences

One: For 20 years, politicians, elites and D.C. military leaders lied to us about Afghanistan.

Two: What happened last week was inevitable, and anyone saying differently is still lying to you.

Biden pulled the plug and it’s over.
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We didn’t commit genocide in the Second World War, you’re as astute a history student as the Stable Genius.

Genocide: "the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.

We killed a large number of Nazis in Germany with the aim of destroying that group. And we did.

The Taliban troops comprise about eighty thousand of the 38 million people living in Afghanistan.

The 38 million are under a similar forced or complicit loyalty to the Taliban as the German population was to the Nazis. The collateral killing of many German citizens, as in Dresden, was considered necessary to wipe out the Nazis. Our ally, Russia, was also good at killing Nazis and collateral other Germans. The German population did not disavow or rebel against the Nazis, but supported them. The Afghan people will support the Taliban. As they did before we occupied their country. Totally wiping out the Taliban, as was done with the Nazis, should have been done if our goal was to nation build there.


The Stable Genius also was a proponent of genocide, birds of a feather ain’t ya
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No, I'm not a bird of a feather with Trump, I'm a bird of a feather with constitutionalists and anti-Progressives.

No, I'm not a bird of a feather with Trump, I'm a bird of a feather with constitutionalists and anti-Progressives.

Over and over again, through history, you find the Right embracing violence and eventually dictatorship when the political tide turns and democracy is no longer in their favor.

That’s what we’re watching now. A rejection of institutions and a lust for authoritarianism.

Genocide which you claim is a solution will be the next step, perhaps you can explain just which other humans besides Muslims you think should be exterminated.
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Over and over again, through history, you find the Right embracing violence and eventually dictatorship when the political tide turns and democracy is no longer in their favor.

It's a leftist cliche that "the Right" embraces violence and dictatorship. It is in leftist lexicology wherein "the Right" is defined as dictatorial. But over and over again, through history, as you put it, dictators, violent or otherwise, have been defined as "the Left" as well.

That’s what we’re watching now. A rejection of institutions and a lust for authoritarianism.

And it is evident, worldwide, that it is currently what is referred to as "the Left" which has been rejecting institutions and foundations and linguistic meaning and history and local and national cultures and fundamentally transforming societies and governments with an authoritarian lust.

Genocide which you claim is a solution will be the next step, perhaps you can explain just which other humans besides Muslims you think should be exterminated.
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I was not in favor of going to war with the Taliban. My preference is to make this country too strong to mess with and use whatever force necessary against those who would do us harm. Exterminating those who want to exterminate us doesn't prick my conscience.

But if you go to war, then achieve total victory. If you want to call that genocide and that word horrifies you, then avoid war. And pray that your pacifism will shield you from those wolves who would prey on your flock and utterly destroy you. Islam has a built in mission to place the world in submission to it. And not by friendly mutually satisfying terms. It is methodically doing that now to non-Muslims in territories in Africa and the Middle East that are under Islamic control.

I would shed no tears if the Taliban were totally exterminated.

Over and over again, through history, you find the Right embracing violence and eventually dictatorship when the political tide turns and democracy is no longer in their favor.

That’s what we’re watching now. A rejection of institutions and a lust for authoritarianism.

Genocide which you claim is a solution will be the next step, perhaps you can explain just which other humans besides Muslims you think should be exterminated.

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somebody needs a therapy session....

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw View Post

definitely a huge success...biden should get a nobel prize




You might be correct for once




^^^^^HALL of FAME material:claps:

New: Roughly 21,600 people were evacuated from Kabul between 3 AM EDT on 8/23 and 3 AM EDT this morning.

Since 8/14, we've gotten approx. 58,700 people out. 63,900 people since the end of July.
Meanwhile
A huge contradiction has emerged in GOP criticism of Afghan evacuation:

Part of the party attacks Biden for hopelessly botching it and failing to rescue Afghans who helped US.

Another part of the party (and some of the same people) don't want to let more Afghans in the US.
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The MAGA world and the GOPQ have taken the all or nothing approach to Afghanistan.. How many people American gets out is not a concern of Theirs and honestly some on the left .. they have this unrealistic expectation that some how we the USA are going to remove anyone who worked with the US in the past 20 years and All Americans…. Yet nobody knows who these people are and many Americans who never registered with the embassy…. But regardless of the numbers saved Republicans will label this a failure they will move the goal post to Another emotion complaint ! and they have . Now theAfghans who they cried we’re being left to die are now to dangerous to come to America

prominent conservatives are warning that these desperate people asking for our help are actually a dire threat to America.

Steven Miller. Tweet. It is becoming increasingly clear that Biden & his radical deputies will use their catastrophic debacle in Afghanistan as a pretext for doing to America what Angela Merkel did to Germany & Europe.

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., said the U.S. owes it to its friends in Afghanistan to help get them out and resettle them elsewhere.


so I will ask a simple question what from on withdrawal would have been acceptable? What does that look like ?

This withdrawal looks like a horrible and ugly to watch, but it looks like our Military and state department are doing a great job getting people out.. yet the Right refuses to support them and the POTUS and the Nation! To get this done

They would rather complain about masks or but promote ivermectin like Ingram Hannity and Tucker amazing
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The MAGA world


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is that still a thing?

GOP criticism

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I bet if trump was still president and this exact thing happened you and your friends would be wanting him nominated for a nobel prize :bl:

I bet if trump was still president and this exact thing happened you and your friends would be wanting him nominated for a nobel prize :bl:

What happened is the result of the lying and incompetence of the former administration, the Stable Genius was no more capable of accomplishing a withdrawal from Afghanistan than he was of passing infrastructure legislation, negotiating with anyone or telling the truth.

The Trump administrations Doha Agreement with the Taliban violated the most basic principles of self-government for the Afghan people. There was no way to enforce it or make sure the Taliban kept its word. There was no denunciation of al-Qaeda terrorists. Worst of all, the deal didn't mandate the Taliban stop attacks against Afghan security forces.

All of this set the stage for the chaotic scenes we're seeing on TV today.

Trump's deal with the Taliban was flawed from the start, which is why Trump's own officials are now scrambling to distance themselves from it. "To have our Generals say that they are depending on diplomacy with the Taliban is an unbelievable scenario. Negotiating with the Taliban is like dealing with the devil," tweeted Trump's ambassador to the United Nations, Nikki Haley, who certainly voiced no such objections while working for Trump. She was not alone. "Our secretary of state signed a surrender agreement with the Taliban," Trump's former national security adviser, H.R. McMaster, told journalist Bari Weiss. "This collapse goes back to the capitulation agreement of 2020. The Taliban didn't defeat us. We defeated ourselves."

Even Mike Pompeo, Trump's Secretary of State and the man who negotiated the deal with the Taliban in the first place, is now denouncing it. He had the audacity to tell Fox News that the "debacle" in Afghanistan "will certainly harm America's credibility with its friends and allies." He certainly didn't seem to think so while he was laying the groundwork for the debacle in the first place.

"We're letting the Taliban run free and wild all around Afghanistan," complained Pompeo, the man who cut the deal to release the Taliban's leader from prison in the first place. Trump ordered the release of 5,000 of the top captured Taliban fighters last year—a decision his own designated "peace envoy" Zalmay Khaliizad said publicly had disturbed him. Those same fighters are now threatening the streets of Kabul.

Republican outrage was also completely absent in the first 45 days of Donald Trump's agreement, when there were over 4,500 Taliban attacks resulting in over 900 Afghan casualties. Where was the Republican outrage about the Afghan army then, when their President handed over Afghanistan to the Taliban? Nonexistent.

They saved their denunciations for Biden's efforts to clean up Trump's mess—efforts which have as yet cost many fewer lives.

But this hypocrisy is not limited to former Trump officials. Take House Republican firebrand Rep. Jim Jordan (R-OH), for example, who only tweeted once in 2014 about losing an American general in combat in Afghanistan, until discovering it as a partisan issue this summer. Now that he can blame Biden for Trump's mess, he hasn't stopped tweeting about it.

Jordan is one of many Republicans hypocritically denouncing a Biden withdrawal that they championed under Trump. The Republican Party used to brag about Trump's "historic" peace deal in Afghanistan. Now, they went so far as to delete that press release to pave the way for a new, partisan attack on President Biden over the end results of that very agreement.

Twitter is awash in angry Republicans outraged about our allies in Afghanistan who we should have evacuated before we left. And yet, it is Trump—and his advisor Stephen Miller—who are the reason so many Afghan interpreters are stuck in Afghanistan due to stalled special immigrant visa application infrastructure. Former Vice President Mike Pence advisor Olivia Troye wrote on Twitter that folks like Trump and Miller made it "even more challenging" to get allies out, overriding the concerns of others in the administration. "There were cabinet meetings about this during the Trump Admin where Stephen Miller would peddle his racist hysteria about Iraq & Afghanistan," Troye wrote. "He & his enablers across gov't would undermine anyone who worked on solving the SIV issue by devastating the system at DHS & State."

In fact, at the end of last year, the Trump administration had nearly 11,000 visas authorized by Congress for Afghans who helped America during the last 20 years—but only gave out 1,300 while most of the withdrawal took place.

So whose fault is it that so many of those who helped us are stuck in Afghanistan? The burden of that responsibility falls squarely on Trump's shoulders. And it is Biden who is working diligently to get them out.

And it was Trump who bragged just this April that the process of moving the U.S. military out of Afghanistan had progressed to a point that even if President Biden wanted to, he "couldn't stop the process." Trump was right: There was nothing Biden could do to stop what was coming in Afghanistan short of another massive U.S. military deployment. According to the text of the February 29, 2020 agreement Trump signed with the Taliban, within 135 days, America would withdraw from five major bases and agreed to complete the rest of its major withdrawals within nine months. In other words, the Trump administration agreed to pull out of Afghanistan long before Biden's inauguration, which it mostly accomplished.

You can read it yourself

https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Agreement-For-Bringing-Peace-to-Afghanistan-02.29.20.pdf

lengthy posts with links to more lengthy stuff should be forbidden...

The link to more lengthy stuff is to the Stable Genius’ brilliantly negotiated agreement.
His administration’s explanation is, they weren’t going to go through with that, they were just going to break it
Trustworthy guys
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The link to more lengthy stuff is to the Stable Genius’ brilliantly negotiated agreement.
His administration’s explanation is, they weren’t going to go through with that, they were just going to break it
Trustworthy guys
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so is it trumps fault that it's such a disaster or biden's credit that it's such a success?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-south-asia-58071592

Good read
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so is it trumps fault that it's such a disaster or biden's credit that it's such a success?

I don’t remember Donald Trump flying one Kurd to safety. He let Turkey slaughter them. They were our allies that served side by side with our troops.

Where was the outrage from you and the Fox Russian Propaganda Machine???

Biden has safely evacuated over 79,000 Afghans.

Trump had the administrative authority to issue nearly 11,000 visas authorized by Congress for Afghans who helped America during the last 20 years—but only gave out 1,300 while most of the withdrawal took place.

If Trump were in office and he had his way, I suspect he would prefer to pull only US citizens out, maybe some of the Afghan helping us for years. Everyone else he views, as evidenced by rhetoric and policy moves, to be potential terrorists. I think it’s amazing how many people have been successfully evacuated, Trump would I believe make a big fat mess of it due to his belief he is smarter than ALL his advisers civilian or military.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-south-asia-58071592

Good read
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BUT THEY'RE NOT EVEN AMERICAN!!!!

I don’t remember Donald Trump flying one Kurd to safety. He let Turkey slaughter them. They were our allies that served side by side with our troops.

Where was the outrage from you and the Fox Russian Propaganda Machine???

Biden has safely evacuated over 79,000 Afghans.

Trump had the administrative authority to issue nearly 11,000 visas authorized by Congress for Afghans who helped America during the last 20 years—but only gave out 1,300 while most of the withdrawal took place.


so it's trumps fault....

If Trump were in office and he had his way, I suspect he would prefer to pull only US citizens out, maybe some of the Afghan helping us for years. Everyone else he views, as evidenced by rhetoric and policy moves, to be potential terrorists. I think it’s amazing how many people have been successfully evacuated, Trump would I believe make a big fat mess of it due to his belief he is smarter than ALL his advisers civilian or military.

this is a shocking prediction......

this is a shocking prediction......

Easy when behavior is so predictable, sort of like expecting a snarky post from you on almost every thread.
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you'd think with the constant cheerleading from the media for this clown...his numbers would be a little better...

Sixty-eight percent of Americans and 55 percent of Democrats believe that the Biden administration’s evacuation of U.S. troops, civilians, and allies from Afghanistan has been handled “badly” according to a new YouGov poll.

Seventy-five percent of veterans, 76 percent of independents, and 84 percent of Republicans concur with the majority of Democrats and supermajority of Americans who disapprove of way the U.S. has withdrawn after nearly 20 years of military involvement there. A mere 16 percent of Americans would go so far as to say that it has been executed “very or somewhat well.”

I bet none of these people are even vaccinated....

I don’t remember Donald Trump flying one Kurd to safety. He let Turkey slaughter them. They were our allies that served side by side with our troops.

Where was the outrage from you and the Fox Russian Propaganda Machine???

Biden has safely evacuated over 79,000 Afghans.

Trump had the administrative authority to issue nearly 11,000 visas authorized by Congress for Afghans who helped America during the last 20 years—but only gave out 1,300 while most of the withdrawal took place.

you'd think with the constant cheerleading from the media for this clown...his numbers would be a little better...

Sixty-eight percent of Americans and 55 percent of Democrats believe that the Biden administration’s evacuation of U.S. troops, civilians, and allies from Afghanistan has been handled “badly” according to a new YouGov poll.

Seventy-five percent of veterans, 76 percent of independents, and 84 percent of Republicans concur with the majority of Democrats and supermajority of Americans who disapprove of way the U.S. has withdrawn after nearly 20 years of military involvement there. A mere 16 percent of Americans would go so far as to say that it has been executed “very or somewhat well.”

I bet none of these people are even vaccinated....

Your guy makes a mess, draws down troops rapidly, releases taliban founder and prisoners, stops issuing visas, meets with the Taliban without the Afghan government, agrees to an aggressive withdrawal timeline. And when the next guy can’t clean his mess up quick enough you’re going to blame him, not the guy who made the mess.

Now ten Americans are dead.

that poll was taken before today's festivities

Now ten Americans are dead.

it awful..God bless them...

definitely Trump's fault...maybe even Bush's fault

Your guy makes a mess, draws down troops rapidly, releases taliban founder and prisoners, stops issuing visas, meets with the Taliban without the Afghan government, agrees to an aggressive withdrawal timeline. And when the next guy can’t clean his mess up quick enough you’re going to blame him, not the guy who made the mess.

Now ten Americans are dead.

Whoa . . . the guy who made the mess!!?? The mess started 20 years ago by several other "guys," and it was a lot messier along the way. Baradar wasn't the only Taliban leader who was released by negotiations with the Taliban. Remember Obama traded the release of 5 Taliban leaders (now instrumental in the Taliban takeover) for the release of American deserter Bowe Bergdahl? https://nypost.com/2021/08/16/taliban-leader-was-freed-from-guantanamo-in-2014-swap-by-obama/

Hasn't Biden been negotiating with the Taliban as well? Not sure if all the reporting of Trump's deals with the Taliban are accurately portrayed, but, if so, Trump may have proposed the mess. But Biden has implemented it. So where do we go from here?

Pulling out of a two decade long imperial fantasy that achieved little more than mass casualties — and deciding to eat the political costs that accompany the complicated maneuver — is the precise opposite of political rhetoric.

There was a magical way for the US to leave that didn’t cause the Afghan army and govt to collapse. Trump had that plan. He kept it hidden with his taxes, infrastructure and healthcare plans along with his National Debt reduction dream.

Pulling out of a two decade long imperial fantasy that achieved little more than mass casualties — and deciding to eat the political costs that accompany the complicated maneuver — is the precise opposite of political rhetoric.

There was a magical way for the US to leave that didn’t cause the Afghan army and govt to collapse. Trump had that plan. He kept it hidden with his taxes, infrastructure and healthcare plans along with his National Debt reduction dream.

Beautiful reverie. Biden--the emergence of a statesman. Wasn't he part of that long train of events and decisions that created the mess. And now he is finally willing to "eat the political costs". Wonder what those costs will be. Will he live long enough to run for a second term. Would the Democrats even let that happen. Not sure of what costs he will pay. Some verbal spanking by the press which will drift into the ether in the next weeks version of the news? Surely not an uncontested rebirth of the Hunter Biden lap top story.

"The first person I was instructed to call on..."

And this was not the low point of that presser.

It sad to see such loss of life and they had Intel something was going to happen .. however American need to decide
How many lives lost is enough or what are we willing to sacrifice to get everyone out? is 70k enough? Do we even know how many Americans are even in country should we stay longer ! we can’t have it both ways it’s not a movie

I know my answer .. but I am 1 of many
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stellar press conference.....I like how he reads off the grocery list of who to call on for the prepared question

Trump abandoned Syria, evacuated zero of our Kurdish allies and handed over our military bases to Russia, I guess the fake outrage is to be expected.
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Trump abandoned Syria, evacuated zero of our Kurdish allies and handed over our military bases to Russia, I guess the fake outrage is to be expected.
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don't try to change the subject...

On October 23, 1983, a terrorist drove a truck filled with explosives into Marine HQ in Beirut, killing 241 Marines. That came 6 months after a terrorist attack on the US embassy killed 63. Reagan promptly pulled out of Lebanon. No Democrats called on Reagan to resign, or said he should be impeached.

The reality is, for 20 yrs there have been terrorist suicide bombers killing civilians and Americans nearly daily in Afghanistan. This is why America is leaving. Only NOW they are outraged because it's all a political game for them. Appalling doesn't even begin to describe
Trumplicans.

I'm just a little skeptical of the motives of the politicians saying yesterday's tragedy requires an instant rethinking of policy but after every mass shooting in this country insist the only answer is to do absolutely nothing.

definitely getting a Nobel Prize....

On October 23, 1983, a terrorist drove a truck filled with explosives into Marine HQ in Beirut, killing 241 Marines. That came 6 months after a terrorist attack on the US embassy killed 63. Reagan promptly pulled out of Lebanon. No Democrats called on Reagan to resign, or said he should be impeached.

The reality is, for 20 yrs there have been terrorist suicide bombers killing civilians and Americans nearly daily in Afghanistan. This is why America is leaving. Only NOW they are outraged because it's all a political game for them. Appalling doesn't even begin to describe
Trumplicans.

I'm just a little skeptical of the motives of the politicians saying yesterday's tragedy requires an instant rethinking of policy but after every mass shooting in this country insist the only answer is to do absolutely nothing.

One of my friends from high school died in that bombing.

It still remains the right needs to make up their minds .. you can’t have boots on the ground or more boots on the ground and think any risk to these people is unacceptable that’s not how operations in a hostile environment works , and those brave marines were doing HAND pat downs so A Bomber like that couldn’t get on a plane and kill many many more .. their the tip of the spear .. and no amount out bombs from above are going to stop a suicide bomber .. or an IED both are the leading cause of KIA in Iraq and Afghanistan..

I get bothered by this Idea that because American has the biggest baddest Military ( true by the way )

That this some how should translate into how could we lose …

ask the British the Russians and any other Nation who tried .. they all will tell you they were beat by Time
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It still remains the right needs to make up their minds ..

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how many minds do you suppose the right has?

Over 70,000 Afghan civilians, 40,000 Afghan soldiers, and 2,743 Americans have died in this conflict.

General Mark Hertling's assessment of what's happening and the difficulties in Afghanistan

A suicide attack - SVIED or VBIED - is a commander’s biggest threat in these environments. They’re hard to stop, even at checkpoints…because they are already there and can be initiated when found.
The only way to address them is 1) find the cell that is making them 2) constantly change methods at checkpoints 3) have greater standoff 4) limit crowds. All of these were difficult at HKIA.
We had a network of female suicide vest wearers in Iraq that were particularly confounding. Widows of terrorists, group leaders drugged them, convinced them they had nothing to live for, and sent them on their mission.
They also had the advantage of wearing abayas and not being checked by security, due to cultural issues of not checking women.
We only found the cell and countered it when we got women on the police force who would work checkpoints. But that took time.
Yesterday’s bombing was horrific. Given the crowds, the crush at the singular gates, the dynamics of inner & outer checkpoints at HKIA, and the desires of ISK to counter Taliban & US actions, this threat was always on my mind, and I’m sure the minds of the NEO commanders.
Contributing to all this: the time constraints of the mission and the incredible complexity of conducting a difficult NEO in a non-permissive environment.
The NEO will continue in this 3d phase, as I pointed out a few days ago, with ever decreasing outflow of evacuees. We’ll soon seen the transition to phase 4, which is the final phase (likely start on Sunday). That will also present huge challenges.
Even with the horrific actions of yesterday, I continue to give high marks to the conduct of this difficult mission, though not all will be evacuated.
And God/Allah bless the souls of those service-members and Afghans who lost their lives or were injured in the despicable & deadly attack.

When this began and thousands of people were left to fend for themselves, I knew somehow, some way someone would step up to the plate and go in there. These guys deserve a helluva lot of gratitude and respect, so do those in the military there that defied orders. I pray they make it home safe. Evil exists.

http://mailer.bytesignal.com/ga/click/2-26872245-164-35792-70127-736852-c32023771b-8ec56ef40b


Veterans of the United States special forces have “secretly rescued” hundreds of members of Afghanistan’s Special Forces and their families in recent days — allies who had been “left for dead” by the Biden administration, according to the Daily Mail.
The operation, codenamed “Pineapple Express” involved a “group of special op soldiers including retired Green Berets and SEAL Team commanders” who were inspired to taken matters into their own hands “after one of the Afghan commandos they served with contacted them to say he was on the run from the Taliban. His visa had not been approved when the Taliban took over on August 14 and thousands ran for the airport,” the Mail said Friday.
“The special ops soldiers first devised a system with US troops at the airport where they sent their comrades to a gate and told them to identify themselves with the password ‘pineapple’ to be put on a plane by the Marines on the ground. Some also showed the troops pictures of pineapples on their phones,” the outlet continued.
After getting their former colleagues out of Afghanistan, they began venturing outside the U.S. military perimeter around Hamid Karzai International Airport, defying Biden administration restrictions to rescue colleagues trapped in Kabul city.
“Moving after nightfall in near-pitch black darkness and extremely dangerous conditions, the group said it worked unofficially in tandem with the United States military and U.S. embassy to move people, sometimes one person at a time, or in pairs, but rarely more than a small bunch, inside the wire of the U.S. military-controlled side of Hamid Karzai International Airport,” ABC News added.
“As of Thursday morning, the group said it had brought as many as 500 Afghan special operators, assets and enablers and their families into the airport in Kabul overnight, handing them each over to the protective custody of the U.S. military,” the outlet needed.
The operation came to light following a deadly terrorist attack in Kabul on Thursday that left nearly 200 dead, including 10 U.S. Marines, 2 U.S. Army soldiers, and 1 U.S. Navy hospital corpsman. The blast did affect some of the “Pineapple Express” travelers, the veterans associated with the mission said. They do not yet know whether some of their colleagues are among the dead.
Around 130 individuals have been smuggled into the protective custody of the U.S. military inside the perimeter of HKIA by a separate “Task Force Pineapple,” “an informal group whose mission began as a frantic effort on Aug. 15 to get one former Afghan commando who had served with group founder Col. Scott Mann, a former Green Beret.
“Dozens of high-risk individuals, families with small children, orphans, and pregnant women, were secretly moved through the streets of Kabul throughout the night and up to just seconds before ISIS detonated a bomb into the huddled mass of Afghans seeking safety and freedom,” Mann said.
Many of those who assisted Task Force Pineapple chose to defy orders, Mann said, exiting the secure perimeter, even as the Biden administration demanded they stay within airport walls, reportedly over President Joe Biden’s fear of a “Black Hawk Down” moment.
“This Herculean effort couldn’t have been done without the unofficial heroes inside the airfield who defied their orders to not help beyond the airport perimeter, by wading into sewage canals and pulling in these targeted people who were flashing pineapples on their phones,” Mann said.
“With the uniformed U.S. military unable to venture outside the airport’s perimeter to collect Americans and Afghans who’ve sought U.S. protection for their past joint service, they instead provided overwatch and awaited coordinated movements by an informal Pineapple Express ground team that included “conductors” led by former Green Beret Capt. Zac Lois, known as the underground railroad’s ‘engineer,’” ABC News reported.
Lois told ABC that he was proud of and astounded by the effort.
“That is an astounding number for an organization that was only assembled days before the start of operations and most of its members had never met each other in person,” he said.

When this began and thousands of people were left to fend for themselves, I knew somehow, some way someone would step up to the plate and go in there. These guys deserve a helluva lot of gratitude and respect, so do those in the military there that defied orders. I pray they make it home safe. Evil exists.

http://mailer.bytesignal.com/ga/click/2-26872245-164-35792-70127-736852-c32023771b-8ec56ef40b


Veterans of the United States special forces have “secretly rescued” hundreds of members of Afghanistan’s Special Forces and their families in recent days — allies who had been “left for dead” by the Biden administration, according to the Daily Mail.
The operation, codenamed “Pineapple Express” involved a “group of special op soldiers including retired Green Berets and SEAL Team commanders” who were inspired to taken matters into their own hands “after one of the Afghan commandos they served with contacted them to say he was on the run from the Taliban. His visa had not been approved when the Taliban took over on August 14 and thousands ran for the airport,” the Mail said Friday.
“The special ops soldiers first devised a system with US troops at the airport where they sent their comrades to a gate and told them to identify themselves with the password ‘pineapple’ to be put on a plane by the Marines on the ground. Some also showed the troops pictures of pineapples on their phones,” the outlet continued.
After getting their former colleagues out of Afghanistan, they began venturing outside the U.S. military perimeter around Hamid Karzai International Airport, defying Biden administration restrictions to rescue colleagues trapped in Kabul city.
“Moving after nightfall in near-pitch black darkness and extremely dangerous conditions, the group said it worked unofficially in tandem with the United States military and U.S. embassy to move people, sometimes one person at a time, or in pairs, but rarely more than a small bunch, inside the wire of the U.S. military-controlled side of Hamid Karzai International Airport,” ABC News added.
“As of Thursday morning, the group said it had brought as many as 500 Afghan special operators, assets and enablers and their families into the airport in Kabul overnight, handing them each over to the protective custody of the U.S. military,” the outlet needed.
The operation came to light following a deadly terrorist attack in Kabul on Thursday that left nearly 200 dead, including 10 U.S. Marines, 2 U.S. Army soldiers, and 1 U.S. Navy hospital corpsman. The blast did affect some of the “Pineapple Express” travelers, the veterans associated with the mission said. They do not yet know whether some of their colleagues are among the dead.
Around 130 individuals have been smuggled into the protective custody of the U.S. military inside the perimeter of HKIA by a separate “Task Force Pineapple,” “an informal group whose mission began as a frantic effort on Aug. 15 to get one former Afghan commando who had served with group founder Col. Scott Mann, a former Green Beret.
“Dozens of high-risk individuals, families with small children, orphans, and pregnant women, were secretly moved through the streets of Kabul throughout the night and up to just seconds before ISIS detonated a bomb into the huddled mass of Afghans seeking safety and freedom,” Mann said.
Many of those who assisted Task Force Pineapple chose to defy orders, Mann said, exiting the secure perimeter, even as the Biden administration demanded they stay within airport walls, reportedly over President Joe Biden’s fear of a “Black Hawk Down” moment.
“This Herculean effort couldn’t have been done without the unofficial heroes inside the airfield who defied their orders to not help beyond the airport perimeter, by wading into sewage canals and pulling in these targeted people who were flashing pineapples on their phones,” Mann said.
“With the uniformed U.S. military unable to venture outside the airport’s perimeter to collect Americans and Afghans who’ve sought U.S. protection for their past joint service, they instead provided overwatch and awaited coordinated movements by an informal Pineapple Express ground team that included “conductors” led by former Green Beret Capt. Zac Lois, known as the underground railroad’s ‘engineer,’” ABC News reported.
Lois told ABC that he was proud of and astounded by the effort.
“That is an astounding number for an organization that was only assembled days before the start of operations and most of its members had never met each other in person,” he said.

To bad the Afghan army couldn’t or wouldn’t fight like their Afghan counterparts.. but not sure how anyone can suggest what the correct number of Afghans is to get out .. seeing we’ve been there 20years ..

When you have so many competing agencies trying to get personal who worked for them out all at the same time .. it’s crazy

No matter where people stand regards to Biden

Stay or go! 60k or 100k people out kias or no Kia There is no solution that would satisfy anyone in this partisan environment in the USA
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There's this though provoking article, and it doesn't spare the Trump administration:

https://thedispatch.com/p/a-defeat-of-choice

I read it until What the president did not mention in his haste to shift blame to the Afghans was that our premature withdrawal of military support left the Afghan army virtually inoperable. When we stopped American air support—without warning—and halted all logistical assistance, it was like cutting off a diver’s air supply.

This is the biggest excuse being peddled by many

But the president opted to explain the asphyxiation of the Afghan war effort on Afghan cowardice.

Because it was cowardice

If they the Afghan Army still required Americans to feed them and do everything for them After 20 years .. what’s the point?

Because it’s clear many other countries military left in June and they did not conduct early evacuation of their personal .. and I can only speculate they also felt that the Afghan Army was going to fight.

When that didn’t happen you saw many countries returning to do what American was doing . Seeing the Afghans chose the Taliban by not fighting
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Nice departing gift we left for our enemies that will no doubt pull off another 9/11 attack.
Thanks Joe





-2,000 Armored Vehicles Including Humvees and MRAP’s
-75,989 Total Vehicles: FMTV, M35, Ford Rangers, Ford F350, Ford Vans, Toyota Pickups, Armored Security Vehicles etc
-45 UH-60 Blachhawk Helicopters
-50 MD530G Scout Attack Choppers
-ScanEagle Military Drones
-30 Military Version Cessnas
-4 C-130’s
-29 Brazilian made A-29 Super Tocano Ground Attack Aircraft
208+ Aircraft Total
-At least 600,000+ Small arms M16, M249 SAWs, M24 Sniper Systems, 50 Calibers, 1,394 M203 Grenade Launchers, M134 Mini Gun, 20mm Gatling Guns and Ammunition
-61,000 M203 Rounds
-20,040 Grenades
-Howitzers
-Mortars +1,000’s of Rounds
-162,000 pieces of Encrypted Military Comunications Gear
-16,000+ Night Vision Goggles
-Newest Technology Night Vision Scopes
-Thermal Scopes and Thermal Mono Goggles
-10,000 2.75 inch Air to Ground Rockets
-Recconaissance Equipment (ISR)
-Laser Aiming Units
-Explosives Ordnance C-4, Semtex, Detonators, Shaped Charges, Thermite, Incendiaries, AP/API/APIT
-2,520 Bombs
-Administration Encrypted Cell Phones and Laptops all operational
-Pallets with Millions of Dollars in US Currency
-Millions of Rounds of Ammunition including but not limited to 20,150,600 rounds of 7.62mm, 9,000,000 rounds of 50.caliber
-Large Stockpile of Plate Carriers and Body Armor
-US Military HIIDE, for Handheld Interagency Identity Detection Equipment Biometrics
-Lots of Heavy Equipment Including Bull Dozers, Backhoes, Dump Trucks, Excavators

Nice departing gift we left for our enemies that will no doubt pull off another 9/11 attack.
Thanks Joe





-2,000 Armored Vehicles Including Humvees and MRAP’s
-75,989 Total Vehicles: FMTV, M35, Ford Rangers, Ford F350, Ford Vans, Toyota Pickups, Armored Security Vehicles etc
-45 UH-60 Blachhawk Helicopters
-50 MD530G Scout Attack Choppers
-ScanEagle Military Drones
-30 Military Version Cessnas
-4 C-130’s
-29 Brazilian made A-29 Super Tocano Ground Attack Aircraft
208+ Aircraft Total
-At least 600,000+ Small arms M16, M249 SAWs, M24 Sniper Systems, 50 Calibers, 1,394 M203 Grenade Launchers, M134 Mini Gun, 20mm Gatling Guns and Ammunition
-61,000 M203 Rounds
-20,040 Grenades
-Howitzers
-Mortars +1,000’s of Rounds
-162,000 pieces of Encrypted Military Comunications Gear
-16,000+ Night Vision Goggles
-Newest Technology Night Vision Scopes
-Thermal Scopes and Thermal Mono Goggles
-10,000 2.75 inch Air to Ground Rockets
-Recconaissance Equipment (ISR)
-Laser Aiming Units
-Explosives Ordnance C-4, Semtex, Detonators, Shaped Charges, Thermite, Incendiaries, AP/API/APIT
-2,520 Bombs
-Administration Encrypted Cell Phones and Laptops all operational
-Pallets with Millions of Dollars in US Currency
-Millions of Rounds of Ammunition including but not limited to 20,150,600 rounds of 7.62mm, 9,000,000 rounds of 50.caliber
-Large Stockpile of Plate Carriers and Body Armor
-US Military HIIDE, for Handheld Interagency Identity Detection Equipment Biometrics
-Lots of Heavy Equipment Including Bull Dozers, Backhoes, Dump Trucks, Excavators

Here we Go... all that equipment was provided by the US and other countries for the past 20yrs by several Administrations .. For the Afghan Army to defend their Country .. to include their air force who ran quicker than the french in WW2

Uzbek government official confirmed to Air Force Magazine that 46 aircraft, including 22 fixed wing and 24 helicopters, and 585 Afghan airmen and soldiers had fled to Uzbekistan by air after the fall of Kabul.

and as if on Cue Conservatives make excuses why they ran.. never once calling them Cowards then move on to a new outrage AKA your list ... completely ignoring whos equipment it was and why it was even there ... for the past 20 years .. So now you think the taliban is going to fly a blackhawk to attack America Cant argue with such logic

Wayne they get the talking points from the usual outlets, never mind the fact the US should have never stayed there after our initial mission was completed. We all enjoy our democracy, but to be so arrogant to believe we can force that way of life elsewhere is a mistake we continue to make.

Wayne they get the talking points from the usual outlets,

I was listening to a reporter from the BBC this morning on NPR, Wayne loves the British press and I bet you love NPR, the reporter was commenting on Boris Johnson his recent remarks about UK service people's lives and efforts in Afghanistan not being in vain...and the reporter referred to the current situation in Afghanistan as "what is widely recognized as a foreign policy disaster"...those were not Boris' words, that was the characterization of the BBC reporter...probably a trump voter

Wayne they get the talking points from the usual outlets, never mind the fact the US should have never stayed there after our initial mission was completed. We all enjoy our democracy, but to be so arrogant to believe we can force that way of life elsewhere is a mistake we continue to make.

I don't think Newsweek, Meet the Press, and General McMaster would be considered usual outlets for "they."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/h-r-mcmaster-warns-against-self-delusion-that-afghanistan-withdrawal-means-war-s-end/ar-AANSboK?ocid=msedgntp

"McMaster warned against 'self-delusion' that the withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan means the war is over."

"McMaster believed the Taliban could have been defeated and that the troops were on a 'path to slowly strengthening over time.' He added it does not 'make sense' to tell the Taliban we're leaving, and that we want to negotiate a settlement."

"He said the war ended in self-defeat and criticized both the Trump and Biden administrations over the way the American troop withdrawal was handled."

He said ""What we did is surrendered to a Jihadist organization and assumed there would be no consequences for that,"


So . . . because we didn't destroy the Taliban, and now surrendered to it, is the war over? Are the various Al Qaeda, Taliban, ISIS, and other Jihadist groups now emboldened to hurt us, or have they "learned their lesson" and will now stay away from us and just more confidently step up their extinction of non-Muslim people in the lands they rule or co-occupy with those non-Muslims?

And if it's the latter will we and the rest of the world not involve ourselves in their mission to exterminate millions of their non-Muslim countrymen?

And if, for some reason or other, the war with them is not over and it rears its ugly head, will we finally get together and just finally wipe them out and be done with it.

I don't think Newsweek, Meet the Press, and General McMaster would be considered usual outlets for "they."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/h-r-mcmaster-warns-against-self-delusion-that-afghanistan-withdrawal-means-war-s-end/ar-AANSboK?ocid=msedgntp

"McMaster warned against 'self-delusion' that the withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan means the war is over."

"McMaster believed the Taliban could have been defeated and that the troops were on a 'path to slowly strengthening over time.' He added it does not 'make sense' to tell the Taliban we're leaving, and that we want to negotiate a settlement."

"He said the war ended in self-defeat and criticized both the Trump and Biden administrations over the way the American troop withdrawal was handled."

He said ""What we did is surrendered to a Jihadist organization and assumed there would be no consequences for that,"


So . . . because we didn't destroy the Taliban, and now surrendered to it, is the war over? Are the various Al Qaeda, Taliban, ISIS, and other Jihadist groups now emboldened to hurt us, or have they "learned their lesson" and will now stay away from us and just more confidently step up their extinction of non-Muslim people in the lands they rule or co-occupy with those non-Muslims?

And if it's the latter will we and the rest of the world not involve ourselves in their mission to exterminate millions of their non-Muslim countrymen?

And if, for some reason or other, the war with them is not over and it rears its ugly head, will we finally get together and just finally wipe them out and be done with it.

Because Genocide is ultimate solution
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Because Genocide is ultimate solution
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Your label, not mine. It seems to be the solution of choice by Muslims in many places.

Do you have a solution?

I just think it feels good to have a President who doesn’t draw his own hurricane maps.
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Your label, not mine. It seems to be the solution of choice by Muslims in many places.

Do you have a solution?

As it happens, the US wiped 3 Afghan villages off the face of the earth in 2010. They were called Tarek Kolache, Khosrow Sofia and Lower Babur. These are the details of a 20-year war that don’t get remembered, let alone discussed. This barbarism was not hypothetical. It was fact.
People will remember what we did and seek revenge.
Much like you
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As it happens, the US wiped 3 Afghan villages off the face of the earth in 2010. They were called Tarek Kolache, Khosrow Sofia and Lower Babur. These are the details of a 20-year war that don’t get remembered, let alone discussed. This barbarism was not hypothetical. It was fact.
People will remember what we did and seek revenge.
Much like you
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

So you have no solution. Throwing out inaccurate labels like genocide and revenge is not a solution.

So you have no solution. Throwing out inaccurate labels like genocide and revenge is not a solution.

A peculiar pathology in modern conservatism: The idea that the US government is too incompetent to execute domestic policy well, but it has extraordinary control over outcomes in countries it invades.
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So you have no solution. Throwing out inaccurate labels like genocide and revenge is not a solution.

I am still waiting on a provided solution from all the republicans the MAGA universe and conservative talking heads .. who now are smarter than the Generals (where did I hear that before ... ) who Claim the withdrawal could have been done Better ! Anything could have been done better in any Country we had boots on the Ground ..

But Conservatives and frankly Some Dems Want Our involvement with these story book happy endings ... But they cut and run once the Troops start dying .. then magically they cant accept the risk and try assigning Blame .. And history has shown us this is the Republican playbook again and again

The Tongo Tongo ambush or the Niger ambush occurred on 4 October 2017, when armed militants from the Islamic State in the Greater Sahara attacked Nigerien and US soldiers outside the village of Tongo Tongo, Niger while they were returning to base after a stop in the village. 4 us SF died recorded on their own helmet cams they had no back up or Air on station .. no investigation no congressional hearings

Yet Four Americans died in the attack: Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens, Information Officer Sean Smith, and two CIA operatives, Glen Doherty and Tyrone Woods, ...

And Republican exploit their Deaths for political Advantage because the know Hillarys running for office ..

And this tongo tongo incident was under Trump and republican control no outrage no blame no he's got blood on his Hands same with the 64 kia in Afghanistan during Trump's Term! funny how that works


Yet Conservatives and republicans are silent when Troops die on their POTUS watch because they sell it to their voters as American Strength and great sacrifice keeping Americans safe ! while waving the flag !

However When American service members die under a democratic POTUS these same people sell it to their Base as weak leadership or Appeasement and they fall in line waving more flags Acting outraged and claiming now America is less safe they Dems hate our troops .. its divide and outrage 24x7


Combat is ugly people die on both Sides and I have said it Before
Americans need to either Accept the risks or STFU . Because trying to have it both ways place our troops in greater danger than they understand. they are not a pugs or a yellow lab that everyone love to love.
they are trained to Bite

I was listening to a reporter from the BBC this morning on NPR, Wayne loves the British press and I bet you love NPR, the reporter was commenting on Boris Johnson his recent remarks about UK service people's lives and efforts in Afghanistan not being in vain...and the reporter referred to the current situation in Afghanistan as "what is widely recognized as a foreign policy disaster"...those were not Boris' words, that was the characterization of the BBC reporter...probably a trump voter

the past 20 years or the past 2 weeks what is widely recognized as a foreign policy disaster

was it this guy ? Tory MP Tom Tugendhat said the UK had "abandoned the Afghan people".

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58220730


The withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan is Britain's biggest foreign policy disaster since the Suez crisis of 1956, the chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee has said.

Tory party I would think they would be Trump Supporters

the past 20 years or the past 2 weeks what is widely recognized as a foreign policy disaster

was it this guy ? Tory MP Tom Tugendhat said the UK had "abandoned the Afghan people".

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58220730


The withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan is Britain's biggest foreign policy disaster since the Suez crisis of 1956, the chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee has said.

Tory party I would think they would be Trump Supporters

yes tory party definitely voted for trump

it was a reporter and it was regarding recent developments....

don't worry I still think biden should get a nobel....

Combat is ugly people die on both Sides and I have said it Before
Americans need to either Accept the risks or STFU .



this is profound....

it's funny how the "question everything", everything is not "black and white" only shades of grey, there are "no absolutes", "resist resist", protest everything, occupy everything, mostly peacefully of course, don't tell ME what to do crowd... is now telling everyone to STFU and do what they are told....pretty amusing

I wonder how many others here are sick to death of having every discussion, event, or news story being politicized. Last I checked, my views on the withdrawal were as an American, viewing and praying for American troops, all wearing American uniforms with the American flag.....
You might as well just put up your affiliation in your signature. Those of you who view and post from only one aisle, be it blue or red, are nothing more than one trick ponies who lack the capacity to view each item on its own merits and happily post bullet points from your favorite partisan sources. Use your head for your reasoning. Don't blindly follow political postures and attacks from either side. Last I checked, there has not been a political platform with all the right answers.

feel better?:D


remember...not long ago....when everybody was busting out that old phrase...."well....I may not agree with what you have to say...but I'll defend to the death your right to say it!"....

I didn't believe them then.....and.....

it's pretty much become the exact opposite in fact.....

was it this guy ? Tory MP Tom Tugendhat said the UK had "abandoned the Afghan people".

Tory party I would think they would be Trump Supporters


bi-partisanship..

Unprecedented Dishonor: UK Holds Biden in Contempt for 'Shameful' and 'Catastrophic' Afghanistan Withdrawal

Because of this, on Wednesday, the British Houses of Parliament decided to hold Biden’s handling of the situation in contempt, with lawmakers condemning his withdrawal plan as “catastrophic” and “shameful,” according to The Telegraph.


:kewl:Members of parliament from across the political spectrum were forceful in their rebuke of Biden.

“The American decision to withdraw was not just a mistake — it was an avoidable mistake, from President Trump’s flawed deal with the Taliban to President Biden’s decision to proceed, and to proceed in such a disastrous way,” Liberal Democrat Leader Sir Ed Davey said.


Other liberal members of parliament, including Labour Leader Sir Keir Starmer and Labour MPs Chris Bryant and Khalid Mahmood, denounced the president as well.

“The Biden government have just come in and, without looking at what is happening on the ground, have taken a unilateral decision, throwing us and everybody else to the fire,” Mahmood said.

History will have a different answer than the current political rhetoric.
This article from the Atlantic will likely be too much for some trolls to read.

America’s longest war has been by any measure a costly failure, and the errors in managing the conflict deserve scrutiny in the years to come. But Joe Biden doesn’t “own” the mayhem on the ground right now. What we’re seeing is the culmination of 20 years of bad decisions by U.S. political and military leaders. If anything, Americans should feel proud of what the U.S. government and military have accomplished in these past two weeks. President Biden deserves credit, not blame.
Unlike his three immediate predecessors in the Oval Office, all of whom also came to see the futility of the Afghan operation, Biden alone had the political courage to fully end America’s involvement. Although Donald Trump made a plan to end the war, he set a departure date that fell after the end of his first term and created conditions that made the situation Biden inherited more precarious. And despite significant pressure and obstacles, Biden has overseen a military and government that have managed, since the announcement of America’s withdrawal, one of the most extraordinary logistical feats in their recent history. By the time the last American plane lifts off from Hamid Karzai International Airport on August 31, the total number of Americans and Afghan allies extricated from the country may exceed 120,000.
In the days following the fall of Kabul earlier this month—an event that triggered a period of chaos, fear, and grief—critics castigated the Biden administration for its failure to properly coordinate the departure of the last Americans and allies from the country. The White House was indeed surprised by how quickly the Taliban took control, and those early days could have been handled better. But the critics argued that more planning both would have been able to stop the Taliban victory and might have made America’s departure somehow tidier, more like a win or perhaps even a draw. The chaos, many said, was symptomatic of a bigger error. They argued that the United States should stay in Afghanistan, that the cost of remaining was worth the benefits a small force might bring.
Former military officers and intelligence operatives, as well as commentators who had long been advocates of extending America’s presence in Afghanistan, railed against Biden’s artificial deadline. Some critics were former Bush-administration officials or supporters who had gotten the U.S. into the mess in the first place, setting us on the impossible path toward nation building and, effectively, a mission without a clear exit or metric for success. Some were Obama-administration officials or supporters who had doubled down on the investment of personnel in the country and later, when the futility of the war was clear, lacked the political courage to withdraw. Some were Trump-administration officials or supporters who had negotiated with and helped strengthen the Taliban with their concessions in the peace deal and then had punted the ultimate exit from the country to the next administration.
They all conveniently forgot that they were responsible for some of America’s biggest errors in this war and instead were incandescently self-righteous in their invective against the Biden administration. Never mind the fact that the Taliban had been gaining ground since it resumed its military campaign in 2004 and, according to U.S. estimates even four years ago, controlled or contested about a third of Afghanistan. Never mind that the previous administration’s deal with the Taliban included the release of 5,000 fighters from prison and favored an even earlier departure date than the one that Biden embraced. Never mind that Trump had drawn down U.S. troop levels from about 13,000 to 2,500 during his last year in office and had failed to repatriate America’s equipment on the ground. Never mind the delay caused by Trump and his adviser Stephen Miller’s active obstruction of special visas for Afghans who helped us.
Never mind the facts. Never mind the losses. Never mind the lessons. Biden, they felt, was in the wrong.

Despite the criticism, Biden, who had argued unsuccessfully when he was Barack Obama’s vice president to seriously reduce America’s presence in Afghanistan, remained resolute. Rather than view the heartbreaking scenes in Afghanistan in a political light as his opponents did, Biden effectively said, “Politics be damned—we’re going to do what’s right” and ordered his team to stick with the deadline and find a way to make the best of the difficult situation in Kabul.
The Biden administration nimbly adapted its plans, ramping up the airlift and sending additional troops into the country to aid crisis teams and to enhance security. Around-the-clock flights came into and went out of Afghanistan. Giant cargo planes departed, a number of them packed with as many as 600 occupants. Senior administration officials convened regular meetings with U.S. allies to find destinations for those planes to land and places for the refugees to stay. The State Department tracked down Americans in the country, as well as Afghans who had worked with the U.S., to arrange their passage to the airport. The Special Immigrant Visa program that the Trump administration had slowed down was kicked into high gear. Despite years of fighting, the administration and the military spoke with the Taliban many times to coordinate passage of those seeking to depart to the airport, to mitigate risks as best as possible, to discuss their shared interest in meeting the August 31 deadline.
The process was relentless and imperfect and, as we all have seen in the most horrific way, not without huge risks for those staying behind to help. On August 26, a suicide bomber associated with ISIS-K killed more than 150 Afghans and 13 American service members who were gathered outside the airport. However, even that heinous act didn’t deter the military. In a 24-hour period from Thursday to Friday, 12,500 people were airlifted out of the country and the president recommitted to meeting the August 31 deadline. And he did so even as his critics again sought to capitalize on tragedy for their own political gain: Republicans called for the impeachment of Biden and of Secretary of State Antony Blinken.

Within hours of the attack at the airport, America struck back, killing two terrorists and injuring another with a missile launched from a drone. A separate drone strike targeted a vehicle full of explosives on Sunday. In doing so, Biden countered the argument that America might lack the intelligence or military resources we would need to defend ourselves against violent extremists now that our troops are leaving.
The very last chapter of America’s benighted stay in Afghanistan should be seen as one of accomplishment on the part of the military and its civilian leadership. Once again the courage and unique capabilities of the U.S. armed services have been made clear. And, in a stark change from recent years, an American leader has done the hard thing, the right thing: set aside politics and put both America’s interests and values first.

David Rothkopf is an author, a commentator, a former senior government official, and the host of the Deep State Radio podcast.
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History will have a different answer than the current political rhetoric.
This article from the Atlantic will likely be too much for some trolls to read.

America’s longest war has been by any measure a costly failure, and the errors in managing the conflict deserve scrutiny in the years to come. But Joe Biden doesn’t “own” the mayhem on the ground right now. What we’re seeing is the culmination of 20 years of bad decisions by U.S. political and military leaders. If anything, Americans should feel proud of what the U.S. government and military have accomplished in these past two weeks. President Biden deserves credit, not blame.
Unlike his three immediate predecessors in the Oval Office, all of whom also came to see the futility of the Afghan operation, Biden alone had the political courage to fully end America’s involvement. Although Donald Trump made a plan to end the war, he set a departure date that fell after the end of his first term and created conditions that made the situation Biden inherited more precarious. And despite significant pressure and obstacles, Biden has overseen a military and government that have managed, since the announcement of America’s withdrawal, one of the most extraordinary logistical feats in their recent history. By the time the last American plane lifts off from Hamid Karzai International Airport on August 31, the total number of Americans and Afghan allies extricated from the country may exceed 120,000.
In the days following the fall of Kabul earlier this month—an event that triggered a period of chaos, fear, and grief—critics castigated the Biden administration for its failure to properly coordinate the departure of the last Americans and allies from the country. The White House was indeed surprised by how quickly the Taliban took control, and those early days could have been handled better. But the critics argued that more planning both would have been able to stop the Taliban victory and might have made America’s departure somehow tidier, more like a win or perhaps even a draw. The chaos, many said, was symptomatic of a bigger error. They argued that the United States should stay in Afghanistan, that the cost of remaining was worth the benefits a small force might bring.
Former military officers and intelligence operatives, as well as commentators who had long been advocates of extending America’s presence in Afghanistan, railed against Biden’s artificial deadline. Some critics were former Bush-administration officials or supporters who had gotten the U.S. into the mess in the first place, setting us on the impossible path toward nation building and, effectively, a mission without a clear exit or metric for success. Some were Obama-administration officials or supporters who had doubled down on the investment of personnel in the country and later, when the futility of the war was clear, lacked the political courage to withdraw. Some were Trump-administration officials or supporters who had negotiated with and helped strengthen the Taliban with their concessions in the peace deal and then had punted the ultimate exit from the country to the next administration.
They all conveniently forgot that they were responsible for some of America’s biggest errors in this war and instead were incandescently self-righteous in their invective against the Biden administration. Never mind the fact that the Taliban had been gaining ground since it resumed its military campaign in 2004 and, according to U.S. estimates even four years ago, controlled or contested about a third of Afghanistan. Never mind that the previous administration’s deal with the Taliban included the release of 5,000 fighters from prison and favored an even earlier departure date than the one that Biden embraced. Never mind that Trump had drawn down U.S. troop levels from about 13,000 to 2,500 during his last year in office and had failed to repatriate America’s equipment on the ground. Never mind the delay caused by Trump and his adviser Stephen Miller’s active obstruction of special visas for Afghans who helped us.
Never mind the facts. Never mind the losses. Never mind the lessons. Biden, they felt, was in the wrong.

Despite the criticism, Biden, who had argued unsuccessfully when he was Barack Obama’s vice president to seriously reduce America’s presence in Afghanistan, remained resolute. Rather than view the heartbreaking scenes in Afghanistan in a political light as his opponents did, Biden effectively said, “Politics be damned—we’re going to do what’s right” and ordered his team to stick with the deadline and find a way to make the best of the difficult situation in Kabul.
The Biden administration nimbly adapted its plans, ramping up the airlift and sending additional troops into the country to aid crisis teams and to enhance security. Around-the-clock flights came into and went out of Afghanistan. Giant cargo planes departed, a number of them packed with as many as 600 occupants. Senior administration officials convened regular meetings with U.S. allies to find destinations for those planes to land and places for the refugees to stay. The State Department tracked down Americans in the country, as well as Afghans who had worked with the U.S., to arrange their passage to the airport. The Special Immigrant Visa program that the Trump administration had slowed down was kicked into high gear. Despite years of fighting, the administration and the military spoke with the Taliban many times to coordinate passage of those seeking to depart to the airport, to mitigate risks as best as possible, to discuss their shared interest in meeting the August 31 deadline.
The process was relentless and imperfect and, as we all have seen in the most horrific way, not without huge risks for those staying behind to help. On August 26, a suicide bomber associated with ISIS-K killed more than 150 Afghans and 13 American service members who were gathered outside the airport. However, even that heinous act didn’t deter the military. In a 24-hour period from Thursday to Friday, 12,500 people were airlifted out of the country and the president recommitted to meeting the August 31 deadline. And he did so even as his critics again sought to capitalize on tragedy for their own political gain: Republicans called for the impeachment of Biden and of Secretary of State Antony Blinken.

Within hours of the attack at the airport, America struck back, killing two terrorists and injuring another with a missile launched from a drone. A separate drone strike targeted a vehicle full of explosives on Sunday. In doing so, Biden countered the argument that America might lack the intelligence or military resources we would need to defend ourselves against violent extremists now that our troops are leaving.
The very last chapter of America’s benighted stay in Afghanistan should be seen as one of accomplishment on the part of the military and its civilian leadership. Once again the courage and unique capabilities of the U.S. armed services have been made clear. And, in a stark change from recent years, an American leader has done the hard thing, the right thing: set aside politics and put both America’s interests and values first.

David Rothkopf is an author, a commentator, a former senior government official, and the host of the Deep State Radio podcast.
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It read pretty much like what you referred to as "current political rhetoric."

It read pretty much like what you referred to as "current political rhetoric."

Is that what the boy from Brazil who thinks for you says?
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Is that what the boy from Brazil who thinks for you says?
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Is that what you think?

Is that what you think?

Don’t you have a YouTube video for this?

Congress authorized US forces to go after 9/11 culprits in September 2001, Osama bin Laden the leader of the Saudis who attacked the USA was killed years ago. When did Congress vote to declare war on Afghanistan?

We have more to fear from the next Terry McVeigh or Floyd Ray Rosebury in this country than we do from ISIS or the Taliban.
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Don’t you have a YouTube video for this?

Congress authorized US forces to go after 9/11 culprits in September 2001, Osama bin Laden the leader of the Saudis who attacked the USA was killed years ago. When did Congress vote to declare war on Afghanistan?

We have more to fear from the next Terry McVeigh or Floyd Ray Rosebury in this country than we do from ISIS or the Taliban.
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No doubt you have some long articles that are too much for trolls to read.

this is profound....

it's funny how the "question everything", everything is not "black and white" only shades of grey, there are "no absolutes", "resist resist", protest everything, occupy everything, mostly peacefully of course, don't tell ME what to do crowd... is now telling everyone to STFU and do what they are told....pretty amusing

No I am telling those Conservatives and the MAGA universe and republicans who love pounding the war Drum but they clearly change their tune when troops die .. for political hay. To Stfu and you can’t have it both ways
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No doubt you have some long articles that are too much for trolls to read.

I’ll gladly oblige you, though the last government report doesn’t include the January 6th domestic terrorists.
Next year’s will.
Here’s the legal definition of domestic terrorism.

DT for the FBI’s purposes is referenced in US Code at 18 U.S.C. § 2331(5), and is defined as activities:
• Involving acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
• Appearing to be intended to:
o Intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
o Influence the policy of government by intimidation or coercion; or
o Affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or
kidnapping; and
• Occurring primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.


https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/21_0514_strategic-intelligence-assessment-data-domestic-terrorism_0.pdf
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I’ll gladly oblige you,

I'm sure you're thrilled to get a chance to show off some newfound list of goodies . . . regardless of any connection to a thread. What on earth does the above post have to do with the disaster in Afghanistan? Jeez . . . you've got it bad.

The disaster is over, finally a president had the balls to end this war that should have ended a long time ago. My thoughts go our to our military families who have lost love ones in this war, let’s hope we finally learn something from this one; although history would suggest we aren’t capable of learning from our mistakes.

I'm sure you're thrilled to get a chance to show off some newfound list of goodies . . . regardless of any connection to a thread. What on earth does the above post have to do with the disaster in Afghanistan? Jeez . . . you've got it bad.

We have more to fear from the next Terry McVeigh or Floyd Ray Rosebury in this country than we do from ISIS or the Taliban.
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We have more to fear from the next Terry McVeigh or Floyd Ray Rosebury in this country than we do from ISIS or the Taliban.
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So then we can rest easy until the next Terry and Floyd show up.

So then we can rest easy until the next Terry and Floyd show up.

Ashli Babbitt was a domestic terrorist in a group of domestic terrorists attempting to storm the center of our legislative branch. The USCP are armed and tasked with protecting Congress. Actions have consequences.

I am glad that President Biden finally ended the 20-year, $2.3 trillion war in Afghanistan.
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Ashli Babbitt was a domestic terrorist .

The USCP are armed and tasked with protecting Congress. Actions have consequences.


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if she hadn't been shot....she would have been charged with trespassing

I think she was foolish for being there and I agree, do stupid stuff and bad things can happen and I apply that to everyone...not just those I disagree with politically

by your definition we should be rounding up a lot of domestic terrorists from last summer's festivities....

interesting that despite all of the violent and heavily armed insurrectionists storming the building and grounds that day...only one officer decided to fire a single bullet.....it was probably justified...I heard he saved countless lives according to him...not just where he was standing but throughout Washington including miles away where AOC was shaking in her knee-high boots fearing for her life

whenever a police officer shoots an armed or unarmed criminal or domestic terrorist we should probably remind everyone that the officer probably saved countless lives(including their own) and that "actions have consequences"

No I am telling those Conservatives and the MAGA universe and republicans who love pounding the war Drum but they clearly change their tune when troops die .. for political hay. To Stfu and you can’t have it both ways
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who loves pounding the war drum? I think you are confused..."MAGA universe" was all about getting us OUT of foreign conflicts...lot's of leftists criticizing this too as I've demonstrated but you just need someone to yell at:confused: Trump isn't president anymore..the guy with balls and no marbles is at the helm now

The disaster is over,

At least you admit it was a disaster, that's a start.

At least you admit it was a disaster, that's a start.

haha...no...the time leading up to biden's presidency was a disaster...biden's balls fixed everything:uhuh:...no worries going forward

The disaster is over, finally a president had the balls to end this war that should have ended a long time ago. My thoughts go our to our military families who have lost love ones in this war, let’s hope we finally learn something from this one; although history would suggest we aren’t capable of learning from our mistakes.



Holy #^&#^&#^&#^&
“Finally a President with balls”
Biden doesn’t know what day it is or where he is most of the time.
The guy is mentally ill and nothing more than a puppet for Obama
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Holy #^&#^&#^&#^&
“Finally a President with balls”
Biden doesn’t know what day it is or where he is most of the time.
The guy is mentally ill and nothing more than a puppet for Obama
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As opposed to Trump who boasted how smart he was yet special needs children have a better grasp of the English language, geography and science. Time will tell, but he also might be not only the first “smart” president to be impeached twice and also convicted of crimes ruling out ever running again. Maybe Stone, Manifort, Rudy and Don the Con can start a club and lament over drinks how the evil left, of course corrupt prosecutors, oh wait and the Left owned media (insert Fox snicker here) conspired to take them down.

As opposed to Trump who boasted how smart he was yet special needs children have a better grasp of the English language, geography and science. Time will tell, but he also might be not only the first “smart” president to be impeached twice and also convicted of crimes ruling out ever running again. Maybe Stone, Manifort, Rudy and Don the Con can start a club and lament over drinks how the evil left, of course corrupt prosecutors, oh wait and the Left owned media (insert Fox snicker here) conspired to take them down.



Dude
You need help
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who loves pounding the war drum? I think you are confused..."MAGA universe" was all about getting us OUT of foreign conflicts...lot's of leftists criticizing this too as I've demonstrated but you just need someone to yell at:confused: Trump isn't president anymore..the guy with balls and no marbles is at the helm now


Seem you don’t follow the MAGA universe

Trump: 'Bomb the hell out of' U.S. equipment left behind in Afghanistan
Look who beating his chest


What are all the Trump supporters going to say when they find out the bomber who killed our troops was 1 of the 5000 prisoners he Released?
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Imagine if there were a major terrorist attack emanating from Saudi Arabia. It could be huge, and probably there would be no consequences to Saudi Arabia or the GOP.

9/11 was planned in Hamburg, Germany, Jakarta, Indonesia, and Las Vegas, Nevada. Funded with Saudi money. Flight training took place in USA. Not a single highjacker was an Afghan citizen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuNkH6E_0RQ

so it’s “balls-y” to pull out while 100+ Americans are still there, a few days after explicitly promising not to leave until they were all out. That takes balls?

And Trump is a war hawk because he doesn’t want to leave weapons in the hands of the Taliban.

That’s some infallible logic.

This week, he also clearly called a black congressman “boy”, and said out loud that he needs instructions on which Pre-selected, softball-lobbing reporter he’s supposed to call on first.

On the other hand, we did get tens of thousands of people out quickly and that’s a real, true feat. But Biden completely failed to keep his promise, and huge mistakes were made, i cannnot begin to imagine the reasoning for abandoning an easily defended military airfield in exchange for an impossible-to-defend civilian one.
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Seem you don’t follow the MAGA universe


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not nearly as closely as you...keep up the good work:btu:

Dude
You need help
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I've been telling him and pete to get a session or two with a shrink....

not nearly as closely as you...keep up the good work:btu:

come on, you’re saying trump didn’t promise to get us into a bunch of wars? that’s what he obviously heard on CNN, so it has to be true.
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At least you admit it was a disaster, that's a start.

It was a rolling disaster right after we failed to leave after the initial mission was completed and if you think any administration would avoid a similar disaster knowing the situation as we do now your kidding yourself. Shades of a disaster is all that would vary.

I've been telling him and pete to get a session or two with a shrink....

Yup
2 nut jobs that hate a guy so much that they sill support a senile old guy who doesn’t know what day it is and spends all his time in his basement.
I’ll stick with the guy who donated all his paychecks to charities instead of a guy who wants to donate our paychecks to his charity
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Wonder who set this up....

Remember that three weeks ago the RNC still had on their page claims that Trump had eliminated ISIS and Biden was for endless wars.

https://web.archive.org/web/20210615230810/https://gop.com/president-trump-is-bringing-peace-to-the-middle-east-rsr/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URf8gAdrDTk&t=35s

Yup
2 nut jobs that hate a guy so much that they sill support a senile old guy who doesn’t know what day it is and spends all his time in his basement. Do you know he has a speech impediment?
I’ll stick with the guy who donated all his paychecks to charities while he was making more money charging the US Govern. for use of his properites.instead of a guy who wants to donate our paychecks to his charity
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You do know he got in trouble for ripping his charities off and was fined millions

One 2nd thought I doubt you knew that.

if she hadn't been shot....she would have been charged with trespassing



Not if they had video of her trying to get through the broken glass on the door.

You do know he got in trouble for ripping his charities off and was fined millions

One 2nd thought I doubt you knew that.

No he doesn’t, gets his talking points from Fox News, probably still believes the big lie. The irony which allludes him is that his stable genus cost the republicans more than just the White House. Nor does he understand I personally have voted more republican tickets over my life, but this party right now is out there and living in some alternative reality.
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No he doesn’t, gets his talking points from Fox News, probably still believes the big lie. The irony which allludes him is that his stable genus cost the republicans more than just the White House. Nor does he understand I personally have voted more republican tickets over my life, but this party right now is out there and living in some alternative reality.
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besides the white house, what did trump cost us? is the gop just a fringe party now?

the democrats have a thin majority in the house, the senate is tied, the gop has 27 governorships and the gop controls 61 of 98 state legislative chambers.

So what did trump cost the gop?

Who is living in an alternate reality, exactly? Might be the guy who thinks Biden is balls-y.
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NYT finally interviewed swing districts voters about Afghanistan and found almost universal agreement: "After a two-decade war, President Biden was right to pull American troops out of Afghanistan."


And today's speech is pretty much what I expected from Biden. Not charismatic, like Obama. Not chest-thumping, like Trump.

Just simple. He said this was what he was going to do and he did it. He'll accept the fallout. The great majority of Americans will pay just as much attention to the end of the war as they did to the last twenty years, in other words, not very much.

besides the white house, what did trump cost us? is the gop just a fringe party now?

the democrats have a thin majority in the house, the senate is tied, the gop has 27 governorships and the gop controls 61 of 98 state legislative chambers.

So what did trump cost the gop?

Who is living in an alternate reality, exactly? Might be the guy who thinks Biden is balls-y.
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Wait for the mid terms and we can revisit
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Wait for the mid terms and we can revisit
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so what were you referring to, exactly, when you said that trump cost the gop plenty besides the white house? are you admitting that as of right now, he didn’t cost them
much? the data sure seems to suggest that.

The democrats suffered far, far greater losses under obama. Not even close. and obviously they came roaring back.
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Wait for the mid terms and we can revisit
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all Biden has to do, is cure cancer, which he very explicitly promised to do in the campaign, and the democrats will kick butt next year.

Short of that, they might well be the party associated with record inflation ( not all their fault), high gas prices ( not all their fault), lockdowns from delta or subsequent variants ( not all their fault), weird social policies that no one between the coasts has any affinity for (completely their fault), skyrocketing crime ( mostly their fault), etc. if the stock market is still way up, does that save them? maybe. maybe not. history shows that in a new presidents first midterm, his party usually gets clobbered. you want to put all your eggs in a basket tied to a guy who obviously has meaningful dimentia, that’s a risk.

Ballsy? He did say he was a truck driver, and got arrested with Nelson Mandela, and had a street fight with a gang leader named Corn Pop, thats all pretty balls-y.
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“If there’s American citizens left, we’re going to stay to get them all out.”

- President Biden, in a softball interview with ABC news, a few days before he ordered our withdrawal, thereby abandoning between 100 and 200 Americans, leaving them at the mercy of the Taliban.

Is that a “balls-y” move, Got Stripers?
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“If there’s American citizens left, we’re going to stay to get them all out.”

- President Biden, in a softball interview with ABC news, a few days before he ordered our withdrawal, thereby abandoning between 100 and 200 Americans, leaving them at the mercy of the Taliban.

Is that a “balls-y” move, Got Stripers?
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Your an idiot Jim if you think evacuating service members or civilians from a war, that SHOULD never have been extended beyond the mission it started on, is anything but messy. Biden pulled our service men and women out of a war they shouldn’t have been in past the original mission and people left behind aren’t lost yet. Our Middle East fu*cked up policy has got way to many US lives
lost, not to mention the hundreds of thousands of Irak and Afghan lives lost, because we are fighting wars we have no business starting or staying in.

Yes Biden had the balls to follow up on his promise to get us out and yes it got messy, but if your an idiot you would blame that on Biden, has nothing to do with anything else, you crack me up. I love poking at the right on this forum, it got old and tired at times, but this one is to rich.

Your an idiot Jim if you think evacuating service members or civilians from a war, that SHOULD never have been extended beyond the mission it started on, is anything but messy. Biden pulled our service men and women out of a war they shouldn’t have been in past the original mission and people left behind aren’t lost yet. Our Middle East fu*cked up policy has got way to many US lives, not to mention the hundreds of thousands of Irak and Afghan lives, because we are fighting wars we have no business starting or staying in.

Yes Biden had the balls to follow up on his promise to get us out and yes it got messy, but if your an idiot you would blame that on Biden, has nothing to do with anything else, you crack me up. I love poking at the right on this forum, it got old and tired at times, but this one is to rich.

did biden keep his promise to the americans left behind? simple question.
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did biden keep his promise to the americans left behind? simple question.
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Simple answer he has other avenues to get others out, but he held to the deadline, what Jim are you so stupid to think that in evacuation from a war zone, in a tribal Muslim country, it would go as promised, again you crack me up.

After sulking for the requisite 6 months, He’s back🤦🏻#^&♂️
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Simple answer he has other avenues to get others out, but he held to the deadline, what Jim are you so stupid to think that in evacuation from a war zone, in a tribal Muslim country, it would go as promised, again you crack me up.

did he promise to use use “other avenues” to eventually get them
out? or did he promise on national television, to stay until they were all out? is that question too complicated for you?

you guys crack me up. i voted for trump twice, but i can immediately admit he’s at best a very flawed individual, at worst someone who belongs in a mental institution for megalomaniacs. i can readily say that, even though i supported him, because it’s obviously true. I don’t need to deny truth to protect my ideology.

You can’t do the same. you can’t simply admit he broke a promise. you’ll bend over backwards, go to any length to avoid any criticism. because it’s not about truth to you folk, it’s about serving the ideology no matter what. protect the narrative at all costs.

By the way, the answer to my question, as everyone knows, s that he broke the promise. might not be his fault, as there’s a meaningful chance he has no memory of what he said three days ago.

But i’m the one with the character flaw, stupidity in this case.

You seem very, very defensive. What are you afraid will happen, exactly, if you just concede he broke a promise?



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Twenty more years another 5 trillion and we could save the people who put off leaving, despite being warned for a year.
Of course in twenty years there would be another entitled bunch who would wait for the last plane.
Now personal responsibility doesn’t count anymore, just like character, honesty and the rule of law
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It was a rolling disaster right after we failed to leave after the initial mission was completed and if you think any administration would avoid a similar disaster knowing the situation as we do now your kidding yourself. Shades of a disaster is all that would vary.

you don't know this....

Now personal responsibility doesn’t count anymore, just like character, honesty and the rule of law

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this is precious.....

Simple answer he has other avenues to get others out, but he held to the deadline, what Jim are you so stupid to think that in evacuation from a war zone, in a tribal Muslim country, it would go as promised, again you crack me up.

suddenly a military operations expert....I think it was promised as a "withdrawal" which has turned into an "evacuation" since biden f*ck*d it up

suddenly a military operations expert....I think it was promised as a "withdrawal" which has turned into an "evacuation" since biden f*ck*d it up

Says the military expert who ignores that a withdrawal will turn into an evacuation . when the The Army the US spent 88 billion to train and equip for 20 years and was the primary security for the US , and we expected them to have our back . Yet Decided they could care less if the Taliban took over or what happens to them or their families just laid down ..

That would change thing quickly but again in a conservatives world facts get abandoned! and being outraged is just easier
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Says the military expert who ignores that a withdrawal will turn into an evacuation . when the The Army the US spent 88 billion to train and equip for 20 years and was the primary security for the US , and we expected them to have our back . Yet Decided they could care less if the Taliban took over or what happens to them or their families just laid down ..

That would change thing quickly but again in a conservatives world facts get abandoned! and being outraged is just easier
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Obviously not everything that happens there is Bidens fault. But since Got Stripers says it was inevitable that things would get chaotic, can you explain why we would walk away from our military airfield which was specifically built to make it readily defendable, and rely solely on an impossible-to-defend civilian airpoirt, in a capital city?

"in a conservatives world facts get abandoned! "

In just about every one of your posts on this thread, you are saying that only conservatives are criticizing Biden for the way this unfolded. That's not close to true, he's getting serious criticism from democrats in congress and in the media. How's that for a fact that doesn't matter.

John R and TDF aren't rabid right wingers. It might make you feel better to try and convince yourself that nobody to the left of Sean Hannity is critical of Biden, but that's not the reality.

Try telling Seth Moulton that only partisan right wingers are critical. Moulton is a democratic congressman from Massachusetts, and he's a very progressive, liberal democrat at that. He also did 4 tours in Iraq. Here's his take on what unfolded...

"To say that today is anything short of a disaster would be dishonest. Worse, it was avoidable. "

https://moulton.house.gov/press-releases/moulton-statement-on-the-situation-in-afghanistan

another comment by Moulton...

"even if you completely agree with the Biden administration’s decision to withdraw, the way they have handled this has been a total f---ing disaster,”

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/inside-seth-moulton-secret-kabul-trip.html

So go ahead and lie to yourself that all criticism is nothing but partisan politics. The blind partisan on this thread is you, refusing to concede that the politician you support, mismanaged this at all, when people from all sides are saying he did.

did he promise to use use “other avenues” to eventually get them
out? or did he promise on national television, to stay until they were all out? is that question too complicated for you?

you guys crack me up. i voted for trump twice, but i can immediately admit he’s at best a very flawed individual, at worst someone who belongs in a mental institution for megalomaniacs. i can readily say that, even though i supported him, because it’s obviously true. I don’t need to deny truth to protect my ideology.

You can’t do the same. you can’t simply admit he broke a promise. you’ll bend over backwards, go to any length to avoid any criticism. because it’s not about truth to you folk, it’s about serving the ideology no matter what. protect the narrative at all costs.

By the way, the answer to my question, as everyone knows, s that he broke the promise. might not be his fault, as there’s a meaningful chance he has no memory of what he said three days ago.

But i’m the one with the character flaw, stupidity in this case.

You seem very, very defensive. What are you afraid will happen, exactly, if you just concede he broke a promise?



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Yes Jim he did say he would get those out who wanted and then said we would stay till all who wanted got out.. and what changed ?

a suicide bomber killed 13 American service members and suddenly The right got cold feet .. outraged and they made it political a nano second after if happened .. screaming.Biden should resign he has blood on his hands ..

in that moment Conservatives made the decision that. Even with 6000 American and 100 thousand others Afghan men women and children rescued
13 American deaths were suddenly unacceptable

And Now since we have left they cry we left Americans behind it all. BS. More fake outrage ..

So here is my question how many marines were Republicans or Americans willing to sacrifice to go save these remaining 100 American who may or may not wanted to leave , and somehow couldn’t get to the airport for what ever reason , even though 6000 did!

1 more 13 more a thousand? The Truth is zero .. and now they will use these 100 American and 13 service members as martyrs in their mid terms it’s classic Republican play book ..

I’ve said it before Republicans love beating their chests and the war drum . Until the bill comes due unless deaths happen under a Republican. POTUS

Look up

The Tongo Tongo ambush or the Niger ambush occurred on 4 October 2017, when armed militants from the Islamic State in the Greater Sahara (ISGS) attacked Nigerien and killed 4 US soldiers outside the village

And this isn’t about Trump is about Republican responses to tragic events

You’ll find no Republican outrage
Except 1 person John McCain
By then a RINO

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/356541-timeline-the-trump-administrations-response-to-the-attack-in-niger
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Yes Jim he did say he would get those out who wanted and then said we would stay till all who wanted got out.. and what changed ?

a suicide bomber killed 13 American service members and suddenly The right got cold feet .. outraged and they made it political a nano second after if happened .. screaming.Biden should resign he has blood on his hands ..

in that moment Conservatives made the decision that. Even with 6000 American and 100 thousand others Afghan men women and children rescued
13 American deaths were suddenly unacceptable
And Now since we have left they cry we left Americans behind it all. B
S. More fake outrage ..

So here is my question how many marines were Republicans or Americans willing to sacrifice to go save these remaining 100 American who may or may not wanted to leave , and somehow couldn’t get to the airport for what ever reason , even though 6000 did!

1 more 13 more a thousand? The Truth is zero .. and now they will use these 100 American and 13 service members as martyrs in their mid terms it’s classic Republican play book ..

I’ve said it before Republicans love beating their chests and the war drum . Until the bill comes due unless deaths happen under a Republican. POTUS

Look up

The Tongo Tongo ambush or the Niger ambush occurred on 4 October 2017, when armed militants from the Islamic State in the Greater Sahara (ISGS) attacked Nigerien and killed 4 US soldiers outside the village

And this isn’t about Trump is about Republican responses to tragic events

You’ll find no Republican outrage
Except 1 person John McCain
By then a RINO

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/356541-timeline-the-trump-administrations-response-to-the-attack-in-niger
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"a suicide bomber killed 13 American service members and suddenly The right got cold feet "

No, not just the right. People in both parties are criticizing Biden.

"And Now since we have left they cry we left Americans behind it all. BS fake outrage"

You're saying, it's not valid to feel genuine outrage that we left American citizens, and allies who helped us, behind? There's no justifiable reason to be at all critical of that decision?

"now they will use these 100 American and 13 service members as martyrs in their mid terms"

That's obviously true. that's what's going to happen, just as the democrats used George Floyd as a martyr, or did that not happen?

I don't suspect this will be a huge issue in the midterms next year, but it might be. If it is, it won't help your side.

"Republicans love beating their chests and the war drum"

Yes you did say it, and it was demonstrably wrong both times you said it. Trump campaigned very specifically, on a promise to not get us involved in questionable wars, and republicans liked that promise. The George Bush wing of the GOP is very willing to go to war, as are PLENTY of democrats. Look up the Senate vote to invade Iraq, you know who voted in favor of that war? Senators Harry Reid, John Kerry, John Edwards, Hilary Clinton, Dianne Feinstein, Chuck Schumer...were they all Republicans?

There's a large number of people who have been connected to DC for decades, who feel entitled to get filthy rich off the American public, they all like to beat the war drum, and the come from both parties. Both.

Blind, rabid, thoughtless partisan talking points, it's all you have.

Yes Jim he did say he would get those out who wanted and then said we would stay till all who wanted got out.. and what changed ?

a suicide bomber killed 13 American service members and suddenly The right got cold feet .. outraged and they made it political a nano second after if happened .. screaming.Biden should resign he has blood on his hands ..

in that moment Conservatives made the decision that. Even with 6000 American and 100 thousand others Afghan men women and children rescued
13 American deaths were suddenly unacceptable

And Now since we have left they cry we left Americans behind it all. BS. More fake outrage ..

So here is my question how many marines were Republicans or Americans willing to sacrifice to go save these remaining 100 American who may or may not wanted to leave , and somehow couldn’t get to the airport for what ever reason , even though 6000 did!

1 more 13 more a thousand? The Truth is zero .. and now they will use these 100 American and 13 service members as martyrs in their mid terms it’s classic Republican play book ..

I’ve said it before Republicans love beating their chests and the war drum . Until the bill comes due unless deaths happen under a Republican. POTUS

Look up

The Tongo Tongo ambush or the Niger ambush occurred on 4 October 2017, when armed militants from the Islamic State in the Greater Sahara (ISGS) attacked Nigerien and killed 4 US soldiers outside the village

And this isn’t about Trump is about Republican responses to tragic events

You’ll find no Republican outrage
Except 1 person John McCain
By then a RINO

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/356541-timeline-the-trump-administrations-response-to-the-attack-in-niger
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If you want to say the GOP will politicize this to help win elections, obviously you are correct, they will do that. If you're saying democrats don't do the same thing, you're wrong. Explain why the left makes a huge deal every time a black person is killed by a cop, but no one says anything about the dozens of blacks murdered every weekend in Chicago alone? Answer - black deaths at the hands of white cops, help democrats win elections. Blacks murdered by other blacks don't help democrats win elections. So which scenario gets all the attention, and which gets ignored?

You're saying, it's not valid to feel genuine outrage that we left American citizens, and allies who helped us, behind? There's no justifiable reason to be at all critical of that decision?


I don’t recall you expressing outrage when Trump pulled our servicemen out, left all our Kurdish allies to fend for themselves and basically gave our bases to Russia. Oh wait that was under a Republican watch.:rude:

I don’t recall you expressing outrage when Trump pulled our servicemen out, left all our Kurdish allies to fend for themselves and basically gave our bases to Russia. Oh wait that was under a Republican watch.:rude:

You need a lot of work on your comprehension.

Almost no one has a problem with the fact that we got out of Afghanistan. And you're right of course, Trump set that in motion.

But I don't think I've heard a single person say we should stay in Afghanistan indefinitely. What people are criticizing, is the manner in which this administration executed the withdrawal.

You said multiple times, that there was almost no chance our withdrawal wasn't going to become chaotic. That's MORE REASON to hang into Bagram air base, which was designed so that we could secure it, and in fact it was secured. That's MORE REASON to NOT rely on a civilian airport in a capital city. Then there's the broken promise, the report that we inexplicably gave a list of names of Americans and Afghan allies to the Taliban


Since you and WDMSO clearly feel there's no valid reason to criticize, I refer you again to the very harsh criticism lobbed by Massachusetts Congressman Seth Moulton, a progressive Democrats and veteran Marine who is absolutely scathing in his criticism of how badly this was bungled. What reason does a liberal democrat from Massachusetts, have to unfairly criticize Joe Biden?

Then there's the video of Biden repeatedly looking at his watch as the caskets were coming off the plane, the fact that most of the 13 families said all Biden did was talk about his own son when meeting with them, the fact that he announces to the world that he needs to be instructed which obedient network to call on for questions, his state department spokesman saying that getting stranded in Afghanistan isn't that different from what Americans go through every day who are stranded overseas (because losing your passport in Grand Cayman and getting delayed, is just like getting stranded behind Taliban lines in Afghanistan). It's a sh-t show. And his plummeting approval numbers confirm it.

You may continue with your denial-fest.

Good dodge
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Obviously not everything that happens there is Bidens fault. But since Got Stripers says it was inevitable that things would get chaotic, can you explain why we would walk away from our military airfield which was specifically built to make it readily defendable, and rely solely on an impossible-to-defend civilian airpoirt, in a capital city?
According to the Pentagon it was determined too risky to secure both airports without a significant troop increase above what they already planned for. Baghram I believe is about 60 klicks from Kabul, no way to get people there.

According to the Pentagon it was determined too risky to secure both airports without a significant troop increase above what they already planned for. Baghram I believe is about 60 klicks from Kabul, no way to get people there.

no way whatsoever, nope. With all the technological advances, maybe someday we’ll have a way to transport humans that distance.
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no way whatsoever, nope. With all the technological advances, maybe someday we’ll have a way to transport humans that distance.
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Sure, because in Kabul you have bus transports for 120,000 people just ready to go. I guess they could have called Greyhound :huh:

Don't mess with his outrage, he is hot and rolling out the narratives he likes to hear.

Sure, because in Kabul you have bus transports for 120,000 people just ready to go. I guess they could have called Greyhound :huh:

so why are so many military experts saying we should
have held onto Baghram? none of them thought the logistics through?
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Don't mess with his outrage, he is hot and rolling out the narratives he likes to hear.

you’re not outraged? everyone else is stupid but you.
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Jim where is the Answer how many more American was the Republican Party willing to loose to save the 100 people they are now complaining have been left behind ?

Once again they want to have both ways, the biggest baddest military with out the bad parts Death of our troops

From 2006 tru 2020 5600 troops killed in accidents 2700 KIA. And 4200 self inflicted

but seeing dying from accidents isn’t big news like 13 killed a suicide attack the families are no less devastated

Yesterday 5 men are presumed dead after their chopper went down .. no outrage no screams of blood on ones Hands ! Accidents are preventable Deaths in combat are Not…


Some people need to rewatch saving Pvt Ryan .. and realize those marines and Corpsman were not victims of some botched operation .. they all joined and knew the risks and carried on their mission until they died . so 120 thousands didn’t have to… and then the next line of marines carried on doing the same job the next day they didn’t quit they stepped up.. unlike the Republican who chose to use their deaths as poltical props before then even came home.. disgusting


failed to criticize? What I explained why and how 1 plan withdrawal turned into evacuation
The current generals have said what I have said ..

No one is saying thing could have gone better , but better is never defined by those on the right it’s just a statement
Backed up with nonsense We could have just used bagrham which is 1.5 hour drive from the embassy we heard the same nonsense about Benghazi we could have sent marines from the main embassy 8 hrs away or we could have parachuted people in… bla bla bla and now Republicans want hearings Ya ok when the Republicans join the Jan 6th commission then they can try to act as if they care about Americans
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so why are so many military experts saying we should
have held onto Baghram? none of them thought the logistics through?
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Jim who do you think planned the mission ! and the when and why to close that base ! it was the military experts ! not the arm chair experts on FOX or newsmax or Biden with a black sharpie

Do you hear yourself I trust the retired guy on TV over the actual General conducting the mission


Kinda like the vaccines don’t work but let me get some of that avermectin Logic
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Jim who do you think planned the mission ! and the when and why to close that base ! it was the military experts ! not the arm chair experts on FOX or newsmax or Biden with a black sharpie
Plenty of ex military being critical on MSNBC and CNN also, but as you said, they weren't doing the planning.

Jim who do you think planned the mission ! and the when and why to close that base ! it was the military experts ! not the arm chair experts on FOX or newsmax or Biden with a black sharpie

Do you hear yourself I trust the retired guy on TV over the actual General conducting the mission


Kinda like the vaccines don’t work but let me get some of that avermectin Logic
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the generals who go on and on about the benefits of diversity? Sorry, wearing a uniform doesn't bestow infallability.

The "experts" (military and civilian) get good grades for the total number of people they got out, and they get a big, fat, well-deserved F for how horribly the last few days were managed.

"Kinda like the vaccines don’t work"

I never said anything that stupid. Fully vaccinated. Kinda like saying "defund the police".

Hindsight is always 20/20. Looking back, it sure would have been nice if we had access to a safe, secure airfield during the last few days. As GS said, it was guaranteed to descend into chaos, which again, makes it more critical to have had Baghram.

Plenty of ex military being critical on MSNBC and CNN also, but as you said, they weren't doing the planning.

Maybe they should have been doing the planning. The people doing the planning, bungled the last few days (but did a good job getting so many out before). That's not just the opinion of the biased right. It's the opinion of everyone not among the biased left. You guys, as always, can't see it, because none of you can say anything critical about any democrat. NEVER.

Maybe they should have been doing the planning. The people doing the planning, bungled the last few days (but did a good job getting so many out before). That's not just the opinion of the biased right. It's the opinion of everyone not among the biased left. You guys, as always, can't see it, because none of you can say anything critical about any democrat. NEVER.
I don't see the military planners as being that political. They were given a policy decision by Trump (i.e. surrender to terrorists rather than broker an enforceable peace deal) that was essentially non-reversible. Granted, Biden campaigned on getting out also, but the military planners were just crafting a mission to execute policy and they were working from some bad assumptions.

The Taliban were going to take over regardless, it just happened much faster than anticipated. Amazing how our troops responded to get so many out so fast without massive carnage, not to diminish those that died in the one bombing.

Maybe they should have been doing the planning. The people doing the planning, bungled the last few days (but did a good job getting so many out before). That's not just the opinion of the biased right. It's the opinion of everyone not among the biased left. You guys, as always, can't see it, because none of you can say anything critical about any democrat. NEVER.
Really Obama just made this war worse, happy now?
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I don't see the military planners as being that political. They were given a policy decision by Trump (i.e. surrender to terrorists rather than broker an enforceable peace deal) that was essentially non-reversible. Granted, Biden campaigned on getting out also, but the military planners were just crafting a mission to execute policy and they were working from some bad assumptions.

The Taliban were going to take over regardless, it just happened much faster than anticipated. Amazing how our troops responded to get so many out so fast without massive carnage, not to diminish those that died in the one bombing.

trumps deal was conditions based, was it not? why was it non reversible? so many other trump policies were overturned.
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trumps deal was conditions based, was it not? why was it non reversible? so many other trump policies were overturned.
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Not really, it had some barely measurable concessions the Taliban weren't meeting under Trump even and by the time Biden took office most of the US troops had already left. I'm not sure how we could have put up an effective defense when the Afghan troops didn't want to fight and the Taliban had all the momentum.

trumps deal was conditions based, was it not? why was it non reversible? so many other trump policies were overturned.
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yes it was condition based and Trump released 5000 prisoners as a condition . without consulting the Afghan Government .. could have Biden reversed it of course he could of then This agreement was no executive order. then move the goal posts again to he said but didn't he promised to leave.


But I am still waiting on those who are complaining that 100 citizens are left in country .. both republican and Democratic! How many US service Members are they willing to lose to get them out ? because clearly 13 marines was to many to get 125k out ..

But even if no marines lost their lives the message would be the same...

Not really, it had some barely measurable concessions the Taliban weren't meeting under Trump even and by the time Biden took office most of the US troops had already left. I'm not sure how we could have put up an effective defense when the Afghan troops didn't want to fight and the Taliban had all the momentum.

“barely measurable”.

one condition stated the taliban had to enter a peaceful, mutually agreed upon deal with the afghan government. that’s not “barely measurable”.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.axios.com/trump-taliban-agreement-doha-biden-8dabe136-6dce-4e43-9289-98551bd47ed6.html

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“barely measurable”.

one condition stated the taliban had to enter a peaceful, mutually agreed upon deal with the afghan government. that’s not “barely measurable”.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.axios.com/trump-taliban-agreement-doha-biden-8dabe136-6dce-4e43-9289-98551bd47ed6.html

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Why didn't Trump enforce that before drawing down troops?

Why didn't Trump enforce that before drawing down troops?

here's what honesty looks like Spence (honesty that you are incapable of)...

that's a good question (that's a statement you are incapable of making to a conservative). From what I saw, the agreement was supposed to be in place by the time we withdrew completely. Trump wasn't president when we withdrew completely.

Hindsight is always 20/20, and it's not fair to expect anyone to be clairvoyant. BUT here is what common sense tells me, they should have done.

You hold onto Bagram. It was built with defendability in mind, and they had many years to fortify it and figure out how to make it safe.

While (1) things are still stable, and (2) you are evacuating huge numbers of people, you use Kabul, as long as it's safe. But you hold onto Bagram, in case you need it. You plan for contingencies (at least, those of us not suffering from dementia plan for contingencies).
Got Stripers said many times here, that it was inevitable that things would descend into a "fall of Saigon" chaos, so if that was forseable, it follows that the Kabul airport would be impossible to function. By the time things go south, you don't have nearly as many people left to get out, and for sure you can get some of them out via Bagram.

The videos of the last days at the airport...you could look at the entirety of global military history, and not be able to find a more dangerous position to put 20 year-old E1s and E2s in. There is literally zero security, and I mean n-o-n-e. You have absolutely no idea of who is standing next to you.

i think the administration did a heck of a job getting so many out in the last month, they absolutely deserve credit for that. They also could not have done worse, preparing for, and managing, the last few days. I don't know how he could have done worse, unless Biden accidentally sat on the nuclear button and nuked the whole country.

As Got Stripers said, anyone could have seen the chaos at the end. We could not have been less prepared. The plan was "go out there and deal with the mob as best you can, and pray that no jihadists are walking among the mob". That was the best plan they could come up with.

As the liberal progressive democrat congressman Seth Moulton from Massachusetts said, it was preventable. It probably wasn't all preventable, but it could have been planned much, much better.

And for Biden to explicitly promise we'd stay until everyone was out and then to so completely walk away from that promise...at a minimum, he has earned the loss of serious trust. That's what happens when you make a promise and then you choose to break it. That emboldens our enemies, and will obviously make anyone think twice about sticking their necks out to help us.

In 2008, there was a senate delegation on a helicopter in Afghanistan, they had to set down in unsafe area during heavy snow. A Blackwater team, along with an Afghan interpreter, walked to them and led them to safety. Senator Joe Biden was on that helicopter. The interpreter who risked his life to rescue Biden, is still there, begging to have he and his family brought out.

Some loyalty.

Sounds simple
Hindsight is 20/20
No matter what scenario occurred at some point there would have been a mob looking to get out and as long as you were letting some in the dangerous interface is there.
That’s why suicide bombers are so dangerous and hard to prevent.
As far as Bagram goes it’s a two hour drive from Kabul which is the population center
You have now increased the perimeter you have to defend by 70 miles or more
In addition the Taliban and ISIS-K are attacking
Pretty much means you have 10K Americans back in, spread out and in harms way.
It’s over, we’re out, just like the end of anything it’s not pretty.
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If we were so ill prepared how did so many get evacuated? Biden and the military did good in light of how the Afghans just rolled over and while I said any end of war pull out is likely to be chaotic, it’s always going to be fluid and nobody expected what happened. Hey thanking loyalty, what about Trump leaving our Kurd allies behind and turning over our facilities to the Russians, you dodged that point before. Fake outrage is partisan.

On a side note on loyalty, seems Kevin is picking up right where Trump left off, threatening companies if they comply with supenas; loyal to the new leader of the far right.

If we were so ill prepared how did so many get evacuated? Biden and the military did good in light of how the Afghans just rolled over and while I said any end of war pull out is likely to be chaotic, it’s always going to be fluid and nobody expected what happened. Hey thanking loyalty, what about Trump leaving our Kurd allies behind and turning over our facilities to the Russians, you dodged that point before. Fake outrage is partisan.

On a side note on loyalty, seems Kevin is picking up right where Trump left off, threatening companies if they comply with supenas; loyal to the new leader of the far right.

Again, work on your comprehension. They got many out before it all went south.

Are you denying that we were caught off guard at the very end? Even Biden is saying they had no expectation that the Taliban would seize control that quickly.

If we were fully prepared, why did we pull out before we got everyone out, therefore breaking Biden's promise?

Man, oh, man, you guys are something. Everything was perfect.

Pete -

you're right, Bagram was too far away.

Better to use just one focal point, a major population center, and create a tightly packed mob all in one place. That makes it impossible for, say, one idiot with a suicide backpack to murder 150 people who are all within 25 feet of him. Which is why no one was hurt at the Kabul airport, all the suicide bombers were walking the roads between Kabul and Bagram.

If the threat was a large scale attack from the Taliban, you'd have a point. That wasn't the threat. The threat was lone jihadists. You do the lone jihadist a favor by telling the world that everyone is going to be in one place, especially when that one place is impossible to secure.

By the way, to all the Biden apologists who claim there was no way to kno wwhat was going to happen...

Reuters just released the transcript of a call President Biden had on July 23 with Afghani president Ghani (the guy we hand-picked, who fled the country without telling anyone he was leaving)...in that call Biden said "the perception...is that things are not going well in terms of the fight against the Taliban, and there is a need... to project a different picture"

Now, that necessarily means that President Biden had knowledge 5 weeks ago, that things were deteriorating. And still, we had no contingency plan, our only hope was an orderly mass exodus from a civilian airport, we had no backup plan in the event that went south.

5 weeks...we had 5 weeks notice.

And AFTER that call, Biden repeatedly told the nation that everything was OK, that there was no reason to believe our withdrawal wouldn't go as planned.

Now, if I claimed that Biden misled us, how would i be wrong, exactly?


That call happened. Read the transcript.

IT'S ALL TRUMPS FAULT!!

just imagine...it's not hard...because we've been treated to plenty...what the spin and rhetoric would be if trump was still in office and what the media narrative would be and you'll realize how ridiculous these guys are ....:rolleyes:

just be grateful biden got operation warp speed going so he could get everyone vaccinated with the vaccine he once seriously questioned which no one should now ever question...it's like that

By the way, to all the Biden apologists who claim there was no way to kno wwhat was going to happen...

Reuters just released the transcript of a call President Biden had on July 23 with Afghani president Ghani (the guy we hand-picked, who fled the country without telling anyone he was leaving)...in that call Biden said "the perception...is that things are not going well in terms of the fight against the Taliban, and there is a need... to project a different picture"

Now, that necessarily means that President Biden had knowledge 5 weeks ago, that things were deteriorating. And still, we had no contingency plan, our only hope was an orderly mass exodus from a civilian airport, we had no backup plan in the event that went south.

5 weeks...we had 5 weeks notice.

And AFTER that call, Biden repeatedly told the nation that everything was OK, that there was no reason to believe our withdrawal wouldn't go as planned.

Now, if I claimed that Biden misled us, how would i be wrong, exactly?


That call happened. Read the transcript.

IT'S ALL TRUMPS FAULT!!

In all your post and most talking heads love to leave out the elephant in the room

The Afghan Army 20yr trained and equipped 300 thousand of them just said F it .

And now Americans are seeing all that equipment on Parade many thinking we left it behind

So let’s talk about honesty

If you want to be honest , start the conversation there. Because that’s when the withdrawal turned into an evacuation.

And instead of having 1 location surrounded by the Taliban you would have had multiple areas surrounded by the Taliban..

And the need to re supply and evac with already limited resources in aircraft and more boots on the ground equal greater risks ..

But iam still waiting for an answer to my questions how much additional blood aka troops are those complaining about the 100 or so Americans left in Afghanistan willing to loose to get them out.


And it’s funny Republicans suddenly are just calling them Americans

But if they saw them on the street they Would be labeled something else Terrorist !
Funny how that works
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Pete -

you're right, Bagram was too far away.

Better to use just one focal point, a major population center, and create a tightly packed mob all in one place. That makes it impossible for, say, one idiot with a suicide backpack to murder 150 people who are all within 25 feet of him. Which is why no one was hurt at the Kabul airport, all the suicide bombers were walking the roads between Kabul and Bagram.

If the threat was a large scale attack from the Taliban, you'd have a point. That wasn't the threat. The threat was lone jihadists. You do the lone jihadist a favor by telling the world that everyone is going to be in one place, especially when that one place is impossible to secure.

Love your logic Jim spread it out no suicide bombers lol

I guess you for got about a little thing called an a IED they get placed on roads dirt paths you name it ..
Did you know
IEDs and Suicide bombers are the #1 killer of Americans.

Yet 120 thousand plus people got out and tragically 13 service members died Like I’ve said conservatives love war just not the dying part

But I get it .. imaginary outcomes are always preferred by conservatives .. ask the pillow guy
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Love your logic Jim spread it out no suicide bombers lol

I guess you for got about a little thing called an a IED they get placed on roads dirt paths you name it ..
Did you know
IEDs and Suicide bombers are the #1 killer of Americans.

Yet 120 thousand plus people got out and tragically 13 service members died Like I’ve said conservatives love war just not the dying part

But I get it .. imaginary outcomes are always preferred by conservatives .. ask the pillow guy
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if you were a line suicide bomber, a guy with a backpack, kindly tell me which scenario you’d prefer…

a municipal airport that’s the only airport being used, with no security, no checkpoints, massive mobs of desperate people in a tight space.

or a us military airfield where the entrances and approaches are heavily guarded? and everyone approaching us in an armored vehicle?

no preference?

Bagram has been open for many years, with american vehicles coming and going, so it would seem they have some defenses in place against IEDs.
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Again, work on your comprehension. They got many out before it all went south.

Are you denying that we were caught off guard at the very end? Even Biden is saying they had no expectation that the Taliban would seize control that quickly.

If we were fully prepared, why did we pull out before we got everyone out, therefore breaking Biden's promise?

Man, oh, man, you guys are something. Everything was perfect.

You must have been good at dodge ball in gym, your fake outage is your response to my asking why Trump gets a pass on the Kurd allies being abandoned.
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In all your post and most talking heads love to leave out the elephant in the room

The Afghan Army 20yr trained and equipped 300 thousand of them just said F it .

And now Americans are seeing all that equipment on Parade many thinking we left it behind

So let’s talk about honesty

If you want to be honest , start the conversation there. Because that’s when the withdrawal turned into an evacuation.

And instead of having 1 location surrounded by the Taliban you would have had multiple areas surrounded by the Taliban..

And the need to re supply and evac with already limited resources in aircraft and more boots on the ground equal greater risks ..

But iam still waiting for an answer to my questions how much additional blood aka troops are those complaining about the 100 or so Americans left in Afghanistan willing to loose to get them out.


And it’s funny Republicans suddenly are just calling them Americans

But if they saw them on the street they Would be labeled something else Terrorist !
Funny how that works
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yes the afghan army said f it. but my point, which you ignored, is that biden knew this was happening back in july, but told the country everything was proceeding in a way that would allow the final withdrawal to take place as planned.

you either intentionally ignored that, or you can’t grasp it. there isn’t a third possibility.

i never denied the afghan army blew this.
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And it’s funny Republicans suddenly are just calling them Americans

But if they saw them on the street they Would be labeled something else Terrorist !

Funny how that works

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this is idiotic :huh:

this is idiotic :huh:

just about everything they’ve said on this thread is idiotic.

you have to be a dedicated kool aid drinker to be unable to concede that we made a mess at the end of this.

armed with nothing else, ed so called us racists. that’s relevant here.

he didn’t care that biden ( on camera) referred to a black congressman as “boy” this week, that’s not any kind of racist red flag for him.
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Biden could have known?

Here is what Ajmal Ahmady, DAB Governor || Economic Advisor to the President of Afghanistan || TAPI Board Member || Former Minister of Industry & Commerce || Harvard MBA and MPA/ID http://www.afghaneconomics.com/ourteam.html
had to say on August 16th:

The collapse of the Government in Afghanistan this past week was so swift and complete - it was disorienting and difficult to comprehend.

This is how the events seemed to proceed from my perspective as Central Bank Governor.
Although much of the rural areas fell to the Taliban over the past few months, the first provincial capital to fall was just 1 week and two days ago!

On Friday August 6th, Ziranj fell. Over the next 6 days, a number of other provinces fell - particularly in the north.
There were multiple rumors that directions to not fight were somehow coming from above.

This has been repeated by Atta Noor and Ismael Khan.

Seems difficult to believe, but there remains a suspicion as to why ANSF left posts so quickly. There is something left unexplained

Currency volatility and other indicators had worsened, but DAB were able to stabilize the macroeconomic environment relatively well during the last week - given the deteriorating security environment.

Then came last Thursday
I attended my normal meetings. Ghazni fell in the morning.

I left work, and by the time I went home - Herat, Kandahar, and Baghdis also fell. Helmand was also under serious attack

Friday - we received a call that given the deteriorating environment, we wouldn’t get any more dollar shipments.

People spread rumors that I had fled on Friday.

On Saturday, DAB had to supply less currency to the markets on Saturday, which further increased panic.

Currency spiked from a stable 81 to almost 100 then back to 86. I held meetings on Saturday to reassure banks and money exchangers to calm them down. I can’t believe that was one day before Kabul fell

On Saturday night, my family called to say that most government had already left. I was dumbfounded.

A security assessment accurately forecast Taliban arrival to Kabul within 36 hours and its fall within 56 hours

I got worried & purchased tickets for Monday as a precaution

On Sunday I began work. Reports throughout morning were increasingly worrisome. I left the bank and left deputies in charge. Felt terrible about leaving staff.

But arrived at airport & saw that Mohaqeq, Rahmani, Massoud, etc were already there! Head of parliament seems content

Saw VP Danish leaving - reportedly for Qatar. By then it was rumored that VP Saleh had left.

Ministers + others were waiting for a Fly Dubai & Emirates flights. Both were cancelled

I secured a Kam Air flight Sunday 7pm. Then the floor fell: the President had already left

I knew right then my flight would be cancelled and there would be chaos.

As expected employees & military left posts. Everyone ran through gates to on Kam Air flight. 300+ passengers boarded for a 100-seat plane.

The plane had no fuel or pilot. We all hoped it would depart

However, I decided to disembark and spotted another military plane. It was surrounded by people trying to board, while the guard forces held people back and boarded their embassy staff.

There was a rush. Some shots were fired. Somehow, my close colleagues pushed me on board.

It did not have to end this way. I am disgusted by the lack of any planning by Afghan leadership. Saw at airport them leave without informing others.

I asked the palace if there was an evacuation plan/charter flights. After 7 years of service, I was met with silence

During last days, I feared not only risks related to Taliban, but fear of transition period once there is no chain of command.

Once president’s departure was announced, I knew within minutes chaos would follow. I cannot forgive him for creating that without a transition plan

I did not criticize them until now, but key figures Fazly & Mohib were too inexperienced in their roles, & was President’s failure that he never recognized such weaknesses.

He himself had great ideas but poor execution. If I contributed to that, I take my share of the blame.

And it seems it’s only gotten worse today at HKIA.

And this. I will be trying to support any requests for assistance, but worry that given my personal experience at airport that any support for friends and colleagues be limited

Did I have a reason to worry? This is the text someone sent me:

“Taliban come to <area> and were looking for you. They were asking about Ajmal Ahmady DAB Governor.”

Whatever their personal views, I also had many personal enemies. Or maybe they just wanted to greet me

this is idiotic :huh:


that funny coming from the guy who doesnt pay attention to what the right is saying

if you were a line suicide bomber, a guy with a backpack, kindly tell me which scenario you’d prefer…

a municipal airport that’s the only airport being used, with no security, no checkpoints, massive mobs of desperate people in a tight space.

or a us military airfield where the entrances and approaches are heavily guarded? and everyone approaching us in an armored vehicle?

no preference?

Bagram has been open for many years, with american vehicles coming and going, so it would seem they have some defenses in place against IEDs.
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again Jim your logic is rather simple .. if you dont think their would be a crush of people at any location ...

you have no idea about IEDs that much is certain just from you think driving in Afghanistan is like driving in America LOL PS still waiting on that answer How many are acceptable

yes the afghan army said f it. but my point, which you ignored, is that biden knew this was happening back in july, but told the country everything was proceeding in a way that would allow the final withdrawal to take place as planned.

you either intentionally ignored that, or you can’t grasp it. there isn’t a third possibility.

i never denied the afghan army blew this.
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Biden knew really that the afghans wouldn't fight 1 day is that your suggestion? ? did all the other Governments and Aid groups did they also Know their on the ground ? that the afghan army wasn't going to last a Day ?

So why didn't everyone evacuate early ? seems they thought as we did the Afghans would at least put up a fight.. and they also needed to fly back in and get people out..

but lets get back to the Air lift how many people should have gotten out? seeing your racist party is all ready spewing crap about Afghans

Republican politicians and Fox News personalities are stoking fears about the U.S. taking in Afghans trying to flee the Taliban.
Rep. Matt Rosendale saying that there is no “excuse to flood our country with refugees from Afghanistan.

“Is the mass migration of Afghan men to America really a good idea? Good for your wife, your daughter?” said the Trump campaign adviser turned host.


Stephen Miller
@StephenM
·
Aug 15
It is becoming increasingly clear that Biden & his radical deputies will use their catastrophic debacle in Afghanistan as a pretext for doing to America what Angela Merkel did to Germany & Europe.


Jim someone needs to pay attention to the big picture. if I recall you had the same issue with Trump

just imagine...it's not hard...because we've been treated to plenty...what the spin and rhetoric would be if trump was still in office and what the media narrative would be and you'll realize how ridiculous these guys are ....:rolleyes:



No chit

It would be a steady stream of "unfit for office" this, and "25th Amendment" that. IMPEACH, IMPEACH, IMPEACH!!!

He took out one Evil Iranian General and we had 3 non-stop weeks of "World War 3"
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Biden knew really that the afghans wouldn't fight 1 day is that your suggestion? ? did all the other Governments and Aid groups did they also Know their on the ground ? that the afghan army wasn't going to last a Day ?

So why didn't everyone evacuate early ? seems they thought as we did the Afghans would at least put up a fight.. and they also needed to fly back in and get people out..

but lets get back to the Air lift how many people should have gotten out? seeing your racist party is all ready spewing crap about Afghans

Republican politicians and Fox News personalities are stoking fears about the U.S. taking in Afghans trying to flee the Taliban.
Rep. Matt Rosendale saying that there is no “excuse to flood our country with refugees from Afghanistan.

“Is the mass migration of Afghan men to America really a good idea? Good for your wife, your daughter?” said the Trump campaign adviser turned host.


Stephen Miller
@StephenM
·
Aug 15
It is becoming increasingly clear that Biden & his radical deputies will use their catastrophic debacle in Afghanistan as a pretext for doing to America what Angela Merkel did to Germany & Europe.


Jim someone needs to pay attention to the big picture. if I recall you had the same issue with Trump

my suggestion is that, according to the transcript of the call, Biden knew in July that things weren’t going well. yet he told america that all
was swell, and obviously he had no plan to deal with things deteriorating.

And got stripers said multiple
times, that any idiot could have foreseen that it would have turned into a mess. so if any idiot should have foreseen it, maybe biden could have thought about that scenario.

you’re saying there was no way to predict the mess. got stripers said any idiot should have seen it coming. if GS is right, Biden failed to plan for what he should have seen coming.

Again, i’m not speculating, i’m going by the transcript. i’m sorry if the physical evidence supports that biden knew 5 weeks ago that it wasn’t good, i’m sorry if that upsets you. But whether you happen to like it or not, Biden said in july it wasn’t going well.

Your moronic speculation that republicans don’t actually care about people
left behind, tells us how indefensible you know your position is.

Who are the private groups trying to get those people out right now? Lots of evangelical christians like glen beck, who i think is kooky, but he’s over there trying to get people
out. I doubt george soros is doing the same. so who really cares, and who doesn’t?
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Pete -

you're right, Bagram was too far away.

Better to use just one focal point, a major population center, and create a tightly packed mob all in one place. That makes it impossible for, say, one idiot with a suicide backpack to murder 150 people who are all within 25 feet of him. Which is why no one was hurt at the Kabul airport, all the suicide bombers were walking the roads between Kabul and Bagram.

If the threat was a large scale attack from the Taliban, you'd have a point. That wasn't the threat. The threat was lone jihadists. You do the lone jihadist a favor by telling the world that everyone is going to be in one place, especially when that one place is impossible to secure.

Mark Hertling, retired General, Hertling served in Armor, Cavalry, planning, operations and training positions, and commanded every organization from Platoon to Field Army. He commanded the 1st Armored Division and Task Force Iron/Multinational Division-North in Iraq during the troop surge of 2007 to 2008.

A terrific thread by Elizabeth Shackleford, former consular officer in South Sudan, the embassy view of the exact same story I’ve been telling from the military perspective. For any commenting this was “botched,” or should have started earlier, or could have been better planned…try it sometime. Hardest mission ever.

As U.S. Embassy's sole consular officer in #SouthSudan 2013-2014, I've been at the airport running #evacuations out of a country at war. Risk & scale differed from #Afghanistan, but some challenges on the ground were similar. A thread to share things I learned on the ground.
There is no graceful way to evac vulnerable people from a country at war. There are better ways & worse ways, but none look good from the outside (or inside). Things could have gone much better, but they also could have gone worse, and many challenges were inevitable.
The hardest part of evac'ing from a warzone is reaching the exit – airport in this case. USG didn’t control Kabul so it had few options to help and all put our people at risk. In South Sudan, we had some success moving a few people to the airport from inside Juba.
but opportunities were ltd. Even harder beyond the capital. We aborted an attempted evac from another town when our aircraft came under fire with serious injuries to US service members. Deciding when and how much to put our people at risk is hard.
Next, someone must decide who gets in. These are life and death decisions, made 100s-1000s of times a day. Mil and civ officers do so with vague guidelines from Washington. Who counts as a family member? How do you prove they are?
How do you prioritize among hundreds when no one’s documents are complete? Many don’t grab their passport and other docs when fleeing for their lives on short notice.
Answers are subjective. Doing it at volume is hard, making decisions among 1000s or more. USG could have taken steps earlier to reduce some numbers (see below), but none of that applied once evac began. It was always going to be a crush. Why?
Americans and our allies aren't the only ones trying to leave, and our departures aren't other people's priorities.
Most at the gates probably weren’t USG priorities (Americans, Afghan allies) but USG had no way to control/limit crowding without law enforcement authority. Expanding the perimeter would have just pushed the same problem out further.
If more Americans and allies had left sooner, we would have had fewer to evac. USG had control over one but not the other.
Not much USG could do to get more Americans out sooner b/c many chose not to go. USG has warned Americans for yrs not to travel to Afghanistan and specifically urged Americans to leave since 2020 deal was signed. Thousands stayed b/c they’re usually there for a reason.
For family, business, humanitarian or other conflict-related work. Some work in security. Most want to be on last safe flight out possible. All had good reasons, but you don't know when the last one will be, it won’t likely be safe, and only has so many seats.
I saw it in South Sudan, urging people to leave as soon as they had a chance, but many opted to delay, hoping things wouldn't get worse. But they did.
Where we could and should have done better is Afghan allies. But this required fixing a broken special immigrant visa (SIV) program years ago–not just starting evacs a few weeks earlier. #Trump admin intentionally clogged the system.
But it was already a 14-step process with unnecessary, difficult bureaucratic steps, particularly hard to complete from Afghanistan. Had Congress, Defense, and State fixed it years ago, 10,000s of our #AfghanAllies would be in the US already.
As many criticize the evac process, surely plagued by inefficiencies and interagency contradictions, remember the mil and civ on the ground charged with 1000s of these life and death decisions, in dangerous circumstances, doing the best they could with limited information.
They deserve immense gratitude but will live with the weight of these choices forever, and what their decisions meant for the ones they didn’t choose. I wish them peace of mind, to be proud of the work they did, know they did their best, and that their service saved lives.

I'll find Hertling's also

Over 70,000 Afghan civilians, 40,000 Afghan soldiers, and 2,743 Americans have died in this conflict.

General Mark Hertling's assessment of what's happening and the difficulties in Afghanistan

A suicide attack - SVIED or VBIED - is a commander’s biggest threat in these environments. They’re hard to stop, even at checkpoints…because they are already there and can be initiated when found.
The only way to address them is 1) find the cell that is making them 2) constantly change methods at checkpoints 3) have greater standoff 4) limit crowds. All of these were difficult at HKIA.
We had a network of female suicide vest wearers in Iraq that were particularly confounding. Widows of terrorists, group leaders drugged them, convinced them they had nothing to live for, and sent them on their mission.
They also had the advantage of wearing abayas and not being checked by security, due to cultural issues of not checking women.
We only found the cell and countered it when we got women on the police force who would work checkpoints. But that took time.
Yesterday’s bombing was horrific. Given the crowds, the crush at the singular gates, the dynamics of inner & outer checkpoints at HKIA, and the desires of ISK to counter Taliban & US actions, this threat was always on my mind, and I’m sure the minds of the NEO commanders.
Contributing to all this: the time constraints of the mission and the incredible complexity of conducting a difficult NEO in a non-permissive environment.
The NEO will continue in this 3d phase, as I pointed out a few days ago, with ever decreasing outflow of evacuees. We’ll soon seen the transition to phase 4, which is the final phase (likely start on Sunday). That will also present huge challenges.
Even with the horrific actions of yesterday, I continue to give high marks to the conduct of this difficult mission, though not all will be evacuated.
And God/Allah bless the souls of those service-members and Afghans who lost their lives or were injured in the despicable & deadly attack.

I did days ago

my suggestion is that, according to MY INTERPERATION OF the transcript of the call, Biden knew in July that things weren’t going well. yet he told america that all
was swell, and obviously he had no plan to deal with things deteriorating.

And got stripers said multiple
times, that any idiot could have foreseen that it would have turned into a mess. so if any idiot should have foreseen it, maybe biden could have thought about that scenario. Came together pretty fast for nobody having thought they would eventually have to do a NEO, didn't it?

you’re saying there was no way to predict the mess. got stripers said any idiot should have seen it coming. if GS is right, Biden failed to plan for what he should have seen coming.

Again, i’m not speculating, i’m going by MY INTERPERATION OF the transcript. i’m sorry if the physical evidence supports that biden knew 5 weeks ago that it wasn’t good, i’m sorry if that upsets you. But whether you happen to like it or not, Biden said in july it wasn’t going well.

Your moronic speculation that republicans don’t actually care about people
left behind, tells us how indefensible you know your position is.
Steven Miller: "Resettling [Afghans] in America is not about solving a humanitarian crisis; it’s about accomplishing an ideological objective to change America,”

Who are the private groups trying to get those people out right now? Lots of evangelical christians like glen beck, who i think is kooky, but he’s over there trying to get people (Christians only need apply)
out. And Eric Prince who had seats at $6500, but what's money? I doubt george soros is doing the same. so who really cares, and who doesn’t?
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Ah, George Soros aka the bogeyman for the right, the evangelicals are bringing people to Mexico, wonder why that is?

Here's the story of the relentless Republican effort (led by President Trump) to undermine and destroy the programs that help bring Afghan refugees to the U.S.

Over the last decade, Republicans have pushed to intentionally create a massive backlog in the Special Immigrant Visa (SIV) program - the one we use to bring Afghan partners to America, by putting onerous conditions on the applications.

In 2016, Obama asked to increase the cap for the SIV program. Senate Republicans objected.

Then, the Trump Admin started slowing down SIV processing.

When Biden took over, there were 10,000 unfilled visas, despite 17,000 applications in the pipeline.

This dovetailed with the assault by Trump and Republicans to destroy other refugee programs that bring Afghans to the U.S..

Obama admitted over 2,700 Afghan refugees.

Trump admitted 400, because he had dismantled the refugee system. Biden had to rebuild it.

And today Trumplicans are making it clear they will oppose bringing more Afghan refugees to the U.S..

Steven Miller: "Resettling [Afghans] in America is not about solving a humanitarian crisis; it’s about accomplishing an ideological objective to change America,”

Tucker Carlson says the Biden administration is allowing Afghan refugees to enter the US in order "to change our country. They'll never lose another election. That's the point, as you know."

hmmm....

President Biden’s approval rating has cratered to 36 percent among independents after his disastrous handling of the withdrawal from Afghanistan, according to a new NPR/PBS/Marist poll.

how can this happen with the lame stream media constantly reminding the electorate that biden is a fabulous president who only makes good decisions for them ??????

are these independents actually watching Faux news and being brainwashed into thinking like $ucker carlson ?????

we need to send paid volunteers door to door to "speak" to these people and make them understand that their thinkers aren't thinking correctly!!!!!!

:smash:

this is pretty funny....

WASHINGTON Apr 4, 2007 An apparently botched message during a widely discouraged visit by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to Syria this week has U.S. officials criticizing rogue efforts at diplomacy among U.S. politicians.

State Department officials said Thursday they made it quite clear they did not want Pelosi to visit Syria, a nation that is listed as a state sponsor of terror and is home to terror group Hezbollah, which started a low-grade war with Israel last summer.

Even The Washington Post editorialized in Thursday editions that “Ms. Pelosi's attempt to establish a shadow presidency is not only counterproductive, it is foolish.”



‘Not a good idea’: Pelosi condemns bipartisan Afghanistan trip
August 25, 2021

Pelosi on Wednesday referred to it as a “freelance” trip and said she issued a written statement shortly after to send a message to lawmakers not to follow their actions.

Pelosi said congressional trips to Kabul would distract from the State Department

hmmm....

President Biden’s approval rating has cratered to 36 percent among independents after his disastrous handling of the withdrawal from Afghanistan, according to a new NPR/PBS/Marist poll.

how can this happen with the lame stream media constantly reminding the electorate that biden is a fabulous president who only makes good decisions for them ??????

are these independents actually watching Faux news and being brainwashed into thinking like $ucker carlson ?????

we need to send paid volunteers door to door to "speak" to these people and make them understand that their thinkers aren't thinking correctly!!!!!!

:smash:

OMG random poll has his numbers dropping a few points below Trumps highest throughout his term, thanks some earth shattering news.

I guess I need to put things into a bigger picture for conservatives and their Responses to events

trump trying to get dirt on Biden from a foreign Nation Response nothing burger

Trump siding with Putin response nothing burger

trumps love affair with Kim. Response Nobel prize

4 SF a troops killed in tongo tongo abuse. Response. Where’s Niger ?

Trumps dealing with Covid and 40000 deaths on his watch, response operation warp speed a vaccine most Trump supporters won’t take and he’s not responsible no screams of he’s got blood on his hands or he should resign.. nope it was MAGA 2021 all aboard

Trumps constant claims of voter fraud before during and after the election his attamepts to de certify the election with out Republicans and the events of Jan 6th. Response let’s suggest it no different than Antifa and BLM riots

Trump negotiations with the Taliban. Response Great success!!

Republicans as a whole and the rise of the delta , in the unvaccinated ! response politically attack mask wearing again and embrace any treatment other than the vaccines

Fast forward to Biden.

Key stone pipe line. Response OMG he just kill oil independence ( FYI pipe line never built)

Immigration response omg back to invasions and caravans

Ransom ware attacks on private companies omg Biden’s fault or China joe

Afghanistan and 15 marines Kia.120k out of the country and harms way possibly a 100 American left. Response resign Biden has blood on his bla bla bla

The right has ZERO intellectual Honesty left . It’s all about outrage 100 percent of the time


Of course the withdrawal of Afghanistan could have looked more dignified but let’s be honest the rights main focus is that it wasn’t dignified.. they wanted some how to turn a 20 years negative into a positive by trying to sell a better outcome to a solution they wanted no part of on Jan 1st

They do it daily ! they sell imaginary solutions to their base , from election law changes solely because Trump lost
To passing laws that have their enforcement mechanisms is any private citizens in the USA can use civil ligation against anyone they think violated a law ( more like campaign aid)

but everyone else is crazy. Ya ok
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I guess I need to put things into a bigger picture for conservatives

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thanks for clearing all of that up :jester:

hmmm....

President Biden’s approval rating has cratered to 36 percent among independents after his disastrous handling of the withdrawal from Afghanistan, according to a new NPR/PBS/Marist poll.

how can this happen with the lame stream media constantly reminding the electorate that biden is a fabulous president who only makes good decisions for them ??????

are these independents actually watching Faux news and being brainwashed into thinking like $ucker carlson ?????

we need to send paid volunteers door to door to "speak" to these people and make them understand that their thinkers aren't thinking correctly!!!!!!

:smash:


A blip on the radar for most but popcorn to you

Trump’s average approval rating across his term, 41.1%

And yet Biden's approval rating has fallen to a new low of 43 per cent

I am not to worried about independent voters . I don’t see this pushing them towards Trump supported candidates… their a more pragmatic bunch then the avg Republican voter
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Trump’s average approval rating across his term, 41.1%


Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

trump was beaten mercilessly, daily by the media & friends....biden gets a tongue bath.....when you consider that....looks like a great approval rating for trump:kewl:...not so good for weekend-at-biden's

you are full of whataboutisms...thought we banned those?

trump was beaten mercilessly, daily by the media & friends....biden gets a tongue bath.....when you consider that....looks like a great approval rating for trump:kewl:...not so good for weekend-at-biden's

you are full of whataboutisms...thought we banned those?

Wow, it’s always someone else’s fault, couldn’t be Tweety’s

Democrats have nothing comparable to the CNP, Leadership Institute, TPUSA, ALEC, Federalist Society and College Republicans. They’re all propaganda machines consistently churning out your thoughts for you, cited as truths by right wing media
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A blip on the radar for most but popcorn to you

Trump’s average approval rating across his term, 41.1%

And yet Biden's approval rating has fallen to a new low of 43 per cent

I am not to worried about independent voters . their a more pragmatic bunch then the avg Republican voter
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If you think independents are practical, then you would be worried if you were smart. Those practical voters will be choosing between a spend-crazy, abortion-crazy, green new deal-crazy,defund-the-police, open borders, "no such thing as biological gender" liberal (no idea who it will be, I don't think Biden runs again, and they can't run Harris who polled at 1% when she ran)...

against Ron Desantis (probably), who kept his state's businesses open, kept his kids in school, and yet has death rates nowhere near what we see in blue states like NY, his state might have the best state economy in the country, people and businesses can't move there fast enough, his state isn't seeing a surbe in violent crime that we see in blue states. And no state income tax. Yes, God forbid we have more of that...

What do you expect a practical voter will base his vote on?

I'm curious to see how the media will align against Desantis. Some are calling him "governor death sentence" (ha ha that's a good one), despite the fact that his death rates are lower than NY, which was led by the guy that EVERYONE in the media said was "the gold standard" of leadership.

trump was beaten mercilessly, daily by the media & friends....biden gets a tongue bath.....when you consider that....looks like a great approval rating for trump:kewl:...not so good for weekend-at-biden's

you are full of whataboutisms...thought we banned those?

do you think Biden runs in 2024?

trump was beaten mercilessly, daily by the media & friends....biden gets a tongue bath.....when you consider that....looks like a great approval rating for trump:kewl:...not so good for weekend-at-biden's

you are full of whataboutisms...thought we banned those?

funny you post trump was beaten mercilessly as your counterpoint then complain about whataboutisms .. ?

do you think Biden runs in 2024?

I doubt Biden or Trump will run in 2024 and I doubt Harris will get the nomination.. :kewl:

I doubt Biden or Trump will run in 2024 and I doubt Harris will get the nomination.. :kewl:

I am inclined to agree. Which means the nominee will be a deep back-bencher, because there isn't anyone else great on the horizon. So they'll dust off Beto Oroarke and Pete Buttigieg and Bloomberg.

If you think independents are practical, then you would be worried if you were smart. Those practical voters will be choosing between a spend-crazy, abortion-crazy, green new deal-crazy,defund-the-police, open borders, "no such thing as biological gender" liberal (no idea who it will be, I don't think Biden runs again, and they can't run Harris who polled at 1% when she ran)...

against Ron Desantis (probably), who kept his state's businesses open, kept his kids in school, and yet has death rates nowhere near what we see in blue states like NY, his state might have the best state economy in the country, people and businesses can't move there fast enough, his state isn't seeing a surbe in violent crime that we see in blue states. And no state income tax. Yes, God forbid we have more of that...

What do you expect a practical voter will base his vote on?

I'm curious to see how the media will align against Desantis. Some are calling him "governor death sentence" (ha ha that's a good one), despite the fact that his death rates are lower than NY, which was led by the guy that EVERYONE in the media said was "the gold standard" of leadership.

You’re watching too much Fox
Florida 3.3 M dead 15324 per 100K
NY 2.3M dead 11749 per 100K
Is the rest of what you get fed as far off as that, responsible voters would look.
Cuomo is gone, the Dems don’t put their sexual predators on a pedestal and worship golden statues of them.
The rest of your spoon fed propaganda is the weak attempt of the far right to paint Biden as other than a centrist.
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If you think independents are practical, then you would be worried if you were smart. Those practical voters will be choosing between a spend-crazy, abortion-crazy, green new deal-crazy,defund-the-police, open borders, "no such thing as biological gender" liberal (no idea who it will be, I don't think Biden runs again, and they can't run Harris who polled at 1% when she ran)...

against Ron Desantis (probably), who kept his state's businesses open, kept his kids in school, and yet has death rates nowhere near what we see in blue states like NY, his state might have the best state economy in the country, people and businesses can't move there fast enough, his state isn't seeing a surbe in violent crime that we see in blue states. And no state income tax. Yes, God forbid we have more of that...

What do you expect a practical voter will base his vote on?

I'm curious to see how the media will align against Desantis. Some are calling him "governor death sentence" (ha ha that's a good one), despite the fact that his death rates are lower than NY, which was led by the guy that EVERYONE in the media said was "the gold standard" of leadership.


Ron Desantis started way to early and it blowing up in his face he has done nothing to pull independants towards him he Has done just the opposite ..



Jim independents dont buy your nonsense of spend-crazy, abortion-crazy, green new deal-crazy,defund-the-police, open borders, "no such thing as biological gender"

Most independents are pragmatic nothing you wrote scares them their not gullible and already knew all this when they Voted for Biden ! and not trump or did you miss that?

Ron Desantis started way to early and it blowing up in his face he has done nothing to pull independants towards him he Has done just the opposite ..



Jim independents dont buy your nonsense of spend-crazy, abortion-crazy, green new deal-crazy,defund-the-police, open borders, "no such thing as biological gender"

Most independents are pragmatic nothing you wrote scares them their not gullible and already knew all this when they Voted for Biden ! and not trump or did you miss that?

"Ron Desantis started way to early "

Covid started when it started, he had to start managing. The fact that TONS of people and businesses are moving there, what does that tell you about how people view the way he is running his state?

"Jim independents dont buy your nonsense of spend-crazy, abortion-crazy, green new deal-crazy,defund-the-police, open borders, "no such thing as biological gender"

Sure they do, because those are all things that todays democrat party advocates for. The only people who deny that, are irrational kool aid drinkers.

"Most independents are pragmatic nothing you wrote scares them"

Again, why are people moving from blue states to red states? Or am I making that up?

The reason why the entire media spends 24 hours a day lying about what whish side believes, is because very few people are on board with the current liberal agenda.

found this interesting seeing the narrative of everyone knew coming from the Right

We've now heard from the UK's Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab, who is in Pakistan as part of efforts to secure safe passage for Britons and others trying to leave Afghanistan.

At a press conference in Islamabad, Raab says there was "common widespread surprise" at the pace of the Taliban's takeover of Afghanistan.

Even the Taliban were "taken by surprise" at the speed, he says. The militants took control of Kabul on 15 August, ahead of the scheduled withdrawal of foreign troops at the end of the month.

found this interesting seeing the narrative of everyone knew coming from the Right

We've now heard from the UK's Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab, who is in Pakistan as part of efforts to secure safe passage for Britons and others trying to leave Afghanistan.

At a press conference in Islamabad, Raab says there was "common widespread surprise" at the pace of the Taliban's takeover of Afghanistan.

Even the Taliban were "taken by surprise" at the speed, he says. The militants took control of Kabul on 15 August, ahead of the scheduled withdrawal of foreign troops at the end of the month.

Got Stripers said any idiot would have seen it coming. i guess that’s too high of a hurdle for Biden.
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found this interesting seeing the narrative of everyone knew coming from the Right

We've now heard from the UK's Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab, who is in Pakistan as part of efforts to secure safe passage for Britons and others trying to leave Afghanistan.

At a press conference in Islamabad, Raab says there was "common widespread surprise" at the pace of the Taliban's takeover of Afghanistan.

Even the Taliban were "taken by surprise" at the speed, he says. The militants took control of Kabul on 15 August, ahead of the scheduled withdrawal of foreign troops at the end of the month.

we also saw the transcript of a call between biden and the afghan president, where biden said it wasn’t going well.

you tell me, which is more pertinent in terms of what Biden should have known…what Biden himself said in July, ow what the UK Fireign secretary ( who you never heard of until today) says he knew.

Biden said in July that it wasn’t going well. But he told americans it was going well.
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Within two presidential election cycles, much of the south will be blue. As former Georgia gubernatorial candidate Stacey Abrams told the New York Times: "The Sun Belt expansion (by Democrats) is what will drive the next thirty years of elections."

Demographers and political pros have been watching and discussing these trends for a decade. Now the data may finally be about to deliver results, starting in the fall. In other words: the Democrats long nightmare in the Sun Belt may be, at last, coming to an end.

These states aren't turning blue because conservatives are suddenly discovering their inner AOC. The shift is driven by demographics—what demographers call "generational replacement," urbanization, and increasingly, the migration of blue state residents to red states. Worryingly for Republicans, these new arrivals have brought their voting habits and blue policies with them. Author Kristin B. Tate calls it the "liberal invasion of red state America." She believes that companies and people are fleeing high tax/low-growth blue states for low tax/high-growth red states. She says, "Harris County (Houston) where I live has absorbed a huge number of people from California. A middle-class family can afford a home here."

Welcome to the Great Migration 2.0, one that may give the Democrats an electoral advantage that could last for generations to come. (See map at end of story.)

To understand what's really going on, we spoke to a dozen experts and dove deep into the data. Working with data provided by William H. Frey, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and author of Diversity Explosion, we looked at twenty years of migration by state, and compared that to changes in presidential voting patterns using data from the website 270toWin. And finally, we studied migration patterns by age from a database at the University of Wisconsin.

What we found is not great news for the Grand Old Party.

Within two presidential election cycles, much of the south will be blue. As former Georgia gubernatorial candidate Stacey Abrams told the New York Times: "The Sun Belt expansion (by Democrats) is what will drive the next thirty years of elections."

Demographers and political pros have been watching and discussing these trends for a decade. Now the data may finally be about to deliver results, starting in the fall. In other words: the Democrats long nightmare in the Sun Belt may be, at last, coming to an end.

These states aren't turning blue because conservatives are suddenly discovering their inner AOC. The shift is driven by demographics—what demographers call "generational replacement," urbanization, and increasingly, the migration of blue state residents to red states. Worryingly for Republicans, these new arrivals have brought their voting habits and blue policies with them. Author Kristin B. Tate calls it the "liberal invasion of red state America." She believes that companies and people are fleeing high tax/low-growth blue states for low tax/high-growth red states. She says, "Harris County (Houston) where I live has absorbed a huge number of people from California. A middle-class family can afford a home here."

Welcome to the Great Migration 2.0, one that may give the Democrats an electoral advantage that could last for generations to come. (See map at end of story.)

To understand what's really going on, we spoke to a dozen experts and dove deep into the data. Working with data provided by William H. Frey, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and author of Diversity Explosion, we looked at twenty years of migration by state, and compared that to changes in presidential voting patterns using data from the website 270toWin. And finally, we studied migration patterns by age from a database at the University of Wisconsin.

What we found is not great news for the Grand Old Party.

I for one, think the GOP should just disband. I mean if Stacey Abrams says it's over, there can be no other outcome. She's rational and brilliant, not even a little bit nutty.

OMG random poll has his numbers dropping a few points below Trumps highest throughout his term, thanks some earth shattering news.

yup...definitely don't let it ruin your weekend

Democrats have nothing comparable to the CNP, Leadership Institute, TPUSA, ALEC, Federalist Society and College Republicans. They’re all propaganda machines consistently churning out your thoughts for you,

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pretty sure I've never read anything from anyone listed above and I'm not sure what some of those letters are, I'l ask Wayne but you are probably right they probably have more reach than NBC,CBS,CNN,NPR,MSNBC,NYT,WAPO,ALJEZZERA

last time I was in a airport recently...they were running Federalist Society News on all of the tv screens...I was shocked

Biden said in July that it wasn’t going well. But he told americans it was going well.

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pretty sure, in that call.... the president told weekend-at-biden's exactly what was going to happen with the taliban and biden responded by checking his watch

pretty sure I've never read anything from anyone listed above and I'm not sure what some of those letters are, I'l ask Wayne but you are probably right they probably have more reach than NBC,CBS,CNN,NPR,MSNBC,NYT,WAPO,ALJEZZERA

last time I was in a airport recently...they were running Federalist Society News on all of the tv screens...I was shocked
we all take our talking points from those outfits. which no one has ever heard of.
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Pete, is MSNBC mainstream? this week, hey said that evangelical christians in the US bear a lot of resemblance to muslim theocracies who impose sharia law.
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Pete, is MSNBC mainstream? this week, hey said that evangelical christians in the US bear a lot of resemblance to muslim theocracies who impose sharia law.
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Just what is Sharia Law?
In Arabic, the term sharīʿah refers to God's immutable divine law and is contrasted with fiqh, which refers to its human scholarly interpretations.

Do many white evangelical Christians believe the Bible is the ultimate law by which to govern? And that it supersedes any law written by Man.

If there was a conflict between God’s law and Man’s law, a Christian would be advised to keep God’s Law. It would be better to go to jail than to rot in Hell. — Truthinlove.com

God said it. I believe it. That settles it.


In the Moral Majority’s founding treatise, they were very clear in their belief that God’s law trumps Man’s law, a Christian form of Sharia law. To them, it was imperative to highjack every means of forcing Man’s law to mirror God’s law with patience (they have been at this for over forty years), surgical political strategies (Citizens United, gerrymandering), and utter ruthlessness (encouraging conspiracy theories and sedition from the pulpit.)
This is why so many white evangelicals justify voting for Donald Trump. After almost forty years, their goal of making the United States a theocracy ruled by God’s law was within reach. Because of Mitch McConnell’s block of judicial confirmations in the United States Senate, federal judicial benches around the country sat vacant. With a transactionally conservative President, a takeover of the liberal federal judiciary was within reach, not only to overturn Roe v Wade, but to enact a raft of Bible-based nationwide legislation. Trump further validated evangelical Christians by elevating one to vice-president; he never questioned their candidates for federal judicial appointments; and he paid lip service to their importance.

we all take our talking points from those outfits. which no one has ever heard of.
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You consistently quote them

I for one, think the GOP should just disband. I mean if Stacey Abrams says it's over, there can be no other outcome. She's rational and brilliant, not even a little bit nutty.

What party do the two senators from Georgia belong to?

Just what is Sharia Law?
In Arabic, the term sharīʿah refers to God's immutable divine law and is contrasted with fiqh, which refers to its human scholarly interpretations.

Do many white evangelical Christians believe the Bible is the ultimate law by which to govern? And that it supersedes any law written by Man.

If there was a conflict between God’s law and Man’s law, a Christian would be advised to keep God’s Law. It would be better to go to jail than to rot in Hell. — Truthinlove.com

God said it. I believe it. That settles it.


In the Moral Majority’s founding treatise, they were very clear in their belief that God’s law trumps Man’s law, a Christian form of Sharia law. To them, it was imperative to highjack every means of forcing Man’s law to mirror God’s law with patience (they have been at this for over forty years), surgical political strategies (Citizens United, gerrymandering), and utter ruthlessness (encouraging conspiracy theories and sedition from the pulpit.)
This is why so many white evangelicals justify voting for Donald Trump. After almost forty years, their goal of making the United States a theocracy ruled by God’s law was within reach. Because of Mitch McConnell’s block of judicial confirmations in the United States Senate, federal judicial benches around the country sat vacant. With a transactionally conservative President, a takeover of the liberal federal judiciary was within reach, not only to overturn Roe v Wade, but to enact a raft of Bible-based nationwide legislation. Trump further validated evangelical Christians by elevating one to vice-president; he never questioned their candidates for federal judicial appointments; and he paid lip service to their importance.

you left out one salient difference. In places with Sharia law, how tolerant are they of people who don't feel inclined to live that way? How many people are being brutalized by born again christians in america at the moment?

"This is why so many white evangelicals justify voting for Donald Trump"

They voted for Trump because (1) they like Mike Pence, and (2) Trump was the best friend to the unborn, that has ever been in the White House.

Youre still a fanatic I see.

"Do many white evangelical Christians believe the Bible is the ultimate law by which to govern?"

No. Not even close. Who is calling for a Christian theocracy? Nobody. Are you feeling OK?

“Over the last 72 hours, I have received multiple death threats and thousands upon thousands of emails from Christians saying the nastiest and most vulgar things I have ever heard toward my family and ministry. I have been labeled a coward, sellout, a traitor to the Holy Spirit, and cussed out at least 500 times.”

This is the beginning of a Facebook post from Sunday by the conservative preacher Jeremiah Johnson. On Jan. 7, the day after the storming of the Capitol, Johnson issued a public apology, asserting that God removed Donald Trump from office because of his pride and arrogance, and to humble those, like Johnson, who had fervently supported him.

The response was swift and vicious. As he wrote in that later Facebook post, “I have been flabbergasted at the barrage of continued conspiracy theories being sent every minute our way and the pure hatred being unleashed. To my great heartache, I’m convinced parts of the prophetic/charismatic movement are far SICKER than I could have ever dreamed of.”

This is what is happening inside evangelical Christianity and within conservatism right now. As a conservative Christian friend of mine put it, there is strife within every family, within every congregation, and it may take generations to recover.

we also saw the transcript of a call between biden and the afghan president, where biden said it wasn’t going well.

That's not what he said.

That's not what he said.

the hell it isn’t.
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That's not what he said.

he also said today, that his 3.5 trillion spending bill “will ease inflationary concerns.”. Can you explain to me how federal government spending 3.5 trillion will reduce inflation? because i’ve always assumed inflation happens when there’s too much money out there.
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Got Stripers said any idiot would have seen it coming. i guess that’s too high of a hurdle for Biden.
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Twisted my words to suit your narrative, how GOP of you.

he also said today, that his 3.5 trillion spending bill “will ease inflationary concerns.”. Can you explain to me how federal government spending 3.5 trillion will reduce inflation? because i’ve always assumed inflation happens when there’s too much money out there.
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Looks like he's found another use for some of the money spent in Afghanistan, this guy would agree
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyZoUfNsUl8

Twisted my words to suit your narrative, how GOP of you.

Here are your exact posts on this thread, your exact words ("exact" means no twisting) describing the withdrawal...

"Your an idiot Jim if you think evacuating service members or civilians from a war, that SHOULD never have been extended beyond the mission it started on, is anything but messy."

"what Jim are you so stupid to think that in evacuation from a war zone, in a tribal Muslim country, it would go as promised"

So in your own words, (1) you'd have to be an idiot to fail to foresee that it would get messy. And (2) you'd have to be stupid to think things would go according to plan.

So what was Biden's strategy to deal with things when they got messy? What was the alternative plan to deal with the inevitable (your words) mess?

Or am I twisting your words, somehow?

See, I think you don't know the difference between my "twisting" your words, and my "using your words to club you like a baby seal".

Because according to your two statements there, the only conclusion is that Biden is stupid and an idiot. Using your barometer, your standards. Because there was no plan other than to hope things stayed stable at Kabul.

Try. Making. That. Wrong.

the hell it isn’t.
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It's not. Biden was saying that they had a stronger army but because of a lack of PR essentially some were concerned they weren't doing as well.

he also said today, that his 3.5 trillion spending bill “will ease inflationary concerns.”. Can you explain to me how federal government spending 3.5 trillion will reduce inflation? because i’ve always assumed inflation happens when there’s too much money out there.
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Yea, because that communist organization Moody's said so.