So 13 vote for infrastructure we all know is really needed and will create jobs and their phone numbers are shared so they can enjoy a barrage of calls wishing they and their families die. If these nuts pulled that crap in the private sector, they would be escorted to the door and their key cards confiscated.

it's terrible when politicians get punished......

So 13 vote for infrastructure we all know is really needed and will create jobs and their phone numbers are shared so they can enjoy a barrage of calls wishing they and their families die. If these nuts pulled that crap in the private sector, they would be escorted to the door and their key cards confiscated.

i agree, we need infastructure funding and i give trump a big fat F for not doing it when he had the chance. if this money is spent wisely, it could be a very productive thing.

what’s your take on Manchin and Sinema holding up the 3.5 trillion social spending bill because they feel it’s not a good bill? are they as heroic as the republicans who put party loyalty aside to do what they thought was right?

have you seen the way manchin and sinema are being ripped apart by the left? curious why that didn’t bother you, since that happened first. aggressive crowds surrounding them ( getting harassed in the bathroom), media tearing them a new one, other elected democrats punishing them. that was all acceptable?
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i agree, we need infastructure funding and i give trump a big fat F for not doing it when he had the chance. if this money is spent wisely, it could be a very productive thing.

what’s your take on Manchin and Sinema holding up the 3.5 trillion social spending bill because they feel it’s not a good bill? are they as heroic as the republicans who put party loyalty aside to do what they thought was right?

have you seen the way manchin and sinema are being ripped apart by the left? curious why that didn’t bother you, since that happened first. aggressive crowds surrounding them ( getting harassed in the bathroom), media tearing them a new one, other elected democrats punishing them. that was all acceptable?
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Reporters have been mugging politicians in Washington forever and there is a huge difference between the criticism the far left has heaped on those two, compared to what the far right has unleashed on those 13 voting for their constituents and not party lines. What’s happening on the right is getting extreme, primarily because they have only one goal, to make it impossible for Biden to be successful. If you posted a characterization of you killing your supervisor and suggesting the CEO be murdered, you would soon be out the door and likely being interviewed by police, yet this is ok for an elected official according to the lack of censure on the right.

As for the second bill, I really don’t know enough about everything in it, but a lot I agree with. Putting money into helping Americans get back to work and having the upper crust pay their fare share for a chance.

there is a huge difference between the criticism the far left has heaped on those two, compared to what the far right has unleashed on those .

i can post as many articles and links as you’d like, of democrats just bashing sinema and manchin.
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here, MSNBC says Manchin could be “the nations ruin.”.

And the Washington Post calls him a “villain.”

the nations ruin? seriously?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/media/more-media-attacks-manchin-villain-putting-west-virginia.amp
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i can post as many articles and links as you’d like, of democrats just bashing sinema and manchin.
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Yeah oh you describe Washington politics, what a revelation; did they release personal information so the right nut jobs can stalk and threaten their lives? Did threats of murder of the president get published (oh just joking right or sure) resulting in no censure by their party leaders?

Kyrsten Sinema has taken over $750,000 from Big Pharma.
Joe Manchin collects $500,000 a year from coal stocks dividends and more than that in political contributions from the fossil fuel industry.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Always follow the money.

You wonder why our country doesn’t change. Stop allowing these campaign contributions and congress along w/our policies would look very different. Until we can disrupt the corruption of these corporate donations (coal, oil, fast food, guns etc), we won’t solve much of substance
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Yeah oh you describe Washington politics, what a revelation; did they release personal information so the right nut jobs can stalk and threaten their lives? Did threats of murder of the president get published (oh just joking right or sure) resulting in no censure by their party leaders?

if it’s just washington politics, just business as usual, why did you start this thread?
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As for the second bill, I really don’t know enough about everything in it, but a lot I agree with. Putting money into helping Americans get back to work and having the upper crust pay their fare share for a chance.

clearly...

if it’s just washington politics, just business as usual, why did you start this thread?
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Duh, because it's no longer business as usual on the right, death threats and joking about murdering the president, having trouble with comprehension Jim? What is the norm is the media who has always had access to elected officials (well unless you don't like the media like Trump and shut it down), so mugging them in the hallway to get answers is the norm. Have some coffee Jim, might clear the fog.

Duh, because it's no longer business as usual on the right, death threats and joking about murdering the president, having trouble with comprehension Jim? What is the norm is the media who has always had access to elected officials (well unless you don't like the media like Trump and shut it down), so mugging them in the hallway to get answers is the norm. Have some coffee Jim, might clear the fog.

oh i see. it’s ok when democrats are bashed for not voting with their party. but it’s problematic for you when republicans are bashed for not voting with their party.

“joking about murdering the president”

what punishment did kathy griffin receive for the same exact offense? and i don’t care if they punish that guy, he deserves it.

the right has been taking cheap elbows since Bush was in office, that’s when civility died. they’re going to throw some back once in awhile.

you’re right, i don’t see your point, other than you’re complaining about something, which you didn’t complain about when the politics were reversed.
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GS, Maxine Waters went on TV and told
people to harass republicans whenever they were out in public, to let them know they’re not welcome. that was ok.

she told her followers to hound republicans, “tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere…”

sorry, what’s good for the goose…

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/06/25/politics/maxine-waters-trump-officials/index.html

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it's no longer business as usual on the right, death threats and joking about murdering the president, having trouble with comprehension Jim?

.

this is the left's business as usual....would you like some examples?

this is the left's business as usual....would you like some examples?

that’s what they don’t like, that we’re playing by their rules now. that’s one of the benefits of trump i guess, he showed that when your opponent is hitting you with cheap elbows, sometimes you need to elbow back. Something Bush/McCain/Romney we’re incapable of.

liberals like it a lot more, when republicans just stand there and take it.
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GS, Maxine Waters went on TV and told
people to harass republicans whenever they were out in public, to let them know they’re not welcome. that was ok.

she told her followers to hound republicans, “tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere…”

sorry, what’s good for the goose…

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/06/25/politics/maxine-waters-trump-officials/index.html

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Here is one of the leaders on the left's response to the stupidity of I'd agree is a dumb ar*se, show me the equivalent on the right please.

“We all have to remember to treat our fellow Americans, all of our fellow Americans, with the kind of civility and respect we expect will be afforded to us,” Schumer said on the Senate floor. “No one should call for the harassment of political opponents. That’s not right. That’s not American.”

Here is one of the leaders on the left's response to the stupidity of I'd agree is a dumb ar*se, show me the equivalent on the right please.

“We all have to remember to treat our fellow Americans, all of our fellow Americans, with the kind of civility and respect we expect will be afforded to us,” Schumer said on the Senate floor. “No one should call for the harassment of political opponents. That’s not right. That’s not American.”

My god you guys are priceless.

Chuck Schumer also said this, directed at the supreme court...this is an exact quote, from the man you say is the model for bipartisan civility.

"I want to tell you, Gorsuch. I want to tell you, Kavanaugh. You have released the whirlwind and you will pay the price. You won't know what hit you if you go forward with these awful decisions."

No one who says those words, gets to stand on the moral high ground and demand civility. Yet you hold him up as the model for how we should behave?

Bush and McCain were gentleman who didn't constantly come out with low blows. And did that incentivized the left to treat them with some respect?

Bush was a Nazi who hated blacks (despit doing more for Africa than any human being who has ever lived). McCain, who told supporters that Obama was a good man and that "we have nothing to fear if he's elected president" was described a senile old racist. Same with Romney, who ws a gentleman yet was portrayed a s heartless plutocrat who hates women.

GS, on almost every single issue, the left claims the conservative position is based on hate.

If you are pro-life, you hate women.
If you are for fiscal soundness, you hate poor people,
If you are for traditional marriage, you hate gays (exception for Hilary and Obama, who stated that marriage was between a man and woman, and it was OK when they said that)
If you think jihadists need to be dealt with, you're an Islamaphobe.
If you want a secure border, you're a xenophobe.

Consider the last few Democrats presidential candidates.

Hilary - half of Republicans are deplorable and irredeemable. Think about what she's saying there. That was a scripted line, think about what those words mean.

Obama - Republicans just hate all the time (it can't be that they could ever have had a valid criticism of him...it's just that we are deranged with hate. The world is divided into 2 kinds of people, those who love Obama, and racist hatemongers)

Biden - Republicans want to put blacks back in chains.

I'm not saying the right doesn't do this. But it's absurd to suggest the left doesn't do it all the time. Have you ever watched CNN or MSNBC? Ever?

My god you guys are priceless.

Chuck Schumer also said this, directed at the supreme court...this is an exact quote, from the man you say is the model for bipartisan civility.

"I want to tell you, Gorsuch. I want to tell you, Kavanaugh. You have released the whirlwind and you will pay the price. You won't know what hit you if you go forward with these awful decisions."

No one who says those words, gets to stand on the moral high ground and demand civility. Yet you hold him up as the model for how we should behave?

Bush and McCain were gentleman who didn't constantly come out with low blows. And did that incentivized the left to treat them with some respect?

Bush was a Nazi who hated blacks (despit doing more for Africa than any human being who has ever lived). McCain, who told supporters that Obama was a good man and that "we have nothing to fear if he's elected president" was described a senile old racist. Same with Romney, who ws a gentleman yet was portrayed a s heartless plutocrat who hates women.

GS, on almost every single issue, the left claims the conservative position is based on hate.

If you are pro-life, you hate women.
If you are for fiscal soundness, you hate poor people,
If you are for traditional marriage, you hate gays (exception for Hilary and Obama, who stated that marriage was between a man and woman, and it was OK when they said that)
If you think jihadists need to be dealt with, you're an Islamaphobe.
If you want a secure border, you're a xenophobe.

Consider the last few Democrats presidential candidates.

Hilary - half of Republicans are deplorable and irredeemable. Think about what she's saying there. That was a scripted line, think about what those words mean.

Obama - Republicans just hate all the time (it can't be that they could ever have had a valid criticism of him...it's just that we are deranged with hate. The world is divided into 2 kinds of people, those who love Obama, and racist hatemongers)

Biden - Republicans want to put blacks back in chains.

I'm not saying the right doesn't do this. But it's absurd to suggest the left doesn't do it all the time. Have you ever watched CNN or MSNBC? Ever?

I guess you missed my question, show me the current response from Kevin or anyone on the right, whataboutism wasn't what I was asking for; but you are the king of whataboutism so it's expected.

I guess you missed my question, show me the current response from Kevin or anyone on the right, whataboutism wasn't what I was asking for; but you are the king of whataboutism so it's expected.

my point is valid. neither side cares about civility, only about winning. you’re saying only the right does this. to believe that, requires willful denial of a lot of what the left says and does.

you’re not aware of anyone in the right advocating for decency? never?

Dan Crenshaw going in SNL after they made fun of his war wounds FFS, and being a courteous, civil gentleman?

Tim Scott has said “a tribal america is a dangerous place to live.”

Ted Cruz - “ political disagreements are fine, but we should always be civil and respect each other’s humanity.”

Nikki Haley - “real leadership is about persuasion, not by shouting them down.”




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I guess you missed my question, show me the current response from Kevin or anyone on the right, whataboutism wasn't what I was asking for; but you are the king of whataboutism so it's expected.

when it never occurred to you to look for examples of republicans calling for civility, are you really surprised when you don’t find any?

And i don’t see value in looking at these people calling for civility one day, when the next day they demonize everyone who disagreees with them. they can call for civility all they want, but they don’t show it. they want to receive civility, but don’t expect to have to show it. and they don’t think it’s hypocritical.
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Jim cant understand what the GOP is doing or want to do for theses 13 republican members is because they Gave Biden a Victory full stop! and did not listen to the dear leader Trump and Vote NO .. they failed to own the Libs and must be punished for such blasphemy..

Yet again Jim contorts criticism of Kyrsten Sinema and
Joe Manchin As once again on equal terms with the GOP lynch Mob it's Amazing

then twist the conversation into civility? Republican have no civility towards anyone including their own membership ...

Jim cant understand what the GOP is doing or want to do for theses 13 republican members is because they Gave Biden a Victory full stop! and did not listen to the dear leader Trump and Vote NO .. they failed to own the Libs and must be punished for such blasphemy..

Yet again Jim contorts criticism of Kyrsten Sinema and
Joe Manchin As once again on equal terms with the GOP lynch Mob it's Amazing

then twist the conversation into civility? Republican have no civility towards anyone including their own membership ...

this not a very civil post....

when it never occurred to you to look for examples of republicans calling for civility, are you really surprised when you don’t find any?

And i don’t see value in looking at these people calling for civility one day, when the next day they demonize everyone who disagreees with them. they can call for civility all they want, but they don’t show it. they want to receive civility, but don’t expect to have to show it. and they don’t think it’s hypocritical.
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Stuck in the way back machine in order to dodge the question, it’s way back whataboutism Jim.

Stuck in the way back machine in order to dodge the question, it’s way back whataboutism Jim.

Maybe I should start stringing together tired cliches and pretend as though they are meaningful thoughts like you😁
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Stuck in the way back machine in order to dodge the question, it’s way back whataboutism Jim.

what? he asked for examples of republicans calling for civility, so i provided them. how is that what aboutism?

you guys live saying “that’s what about-ism” when you get wrecked. that and playing the race card.
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Jim cant understand what the GOP is doing or want to do for theses 13 republican members is because they Gave Biden a Victory full stop! and did not listen to the dear leader Trump and Vote NO .. they failed to own the Libs and must be punished for such blasphemy..

Yet again Jim contorts criticism of Kyrsten Sinema and
Joe Manchin As once again on equal terms with the GOP lynch Mob it's Amazing

then twist the conversation into civility? Republican have no civility towards anyone including their own membership ...

i can understand it. it’s called politics. i di t especially like it, i think we need a smart, efficient infastructure bill. i’ve said it ten times, the fact that you haven’t grasped that shows slowness even for you.

the gop should have passed an infastructure bill when they ran the show. they have no one but themselves to blame for the Democrats getting a win here.

please tell me, what i just said, that’s above your head? what can’t you understand?

What Manchin and Sinema got from their side, is worse than what these 13 republicans are getting.
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wayne, every time i post actual events as evidence of something, you always say “that’s not the same”, but you never ever specify why my examples aren’t pertinent

no two things are exactly the same. i’m not saying they are.

civility? again, look at the disgusting remarks by Obama, Hilary, and Biden recently. sorry, there’s no civility on either side.

we can talk about political results if you want. have you ever addressed the fact that a record number of americans said they were better off after 4 years of trump? i’ve asked you about that pill ten times. have you ever answered?

during the height of the pandemic, a record number of americans said they were better off after 4 years of trump. the poll was fine by gallup, not by foxnews.

how do you explain that poll? why are you so scared of addressing that?
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One poll said that, other polls at that time came up with the opposite.

Fox News poll released Friday found mixed reviews about President Trump's job performance over the last few years, with a majority ultimately saying they thought the United States was worse off now than it was four years ago.

Fifty-five percent of voters in the the poll said they believe the U.S. is worse off now than it was four years ago, while nearly a third - 32 percent - said it was better off and 11 percent said it was the same.

Asked if they personally were better off than four years ago, 33 percent said yes while 36 percent said they were worse off and 30 percent said they were the same.

On the economy, 11 percent of voters rated the condition as "excellent" compared to 3 percent saying the same in 2016. The new poll found that 22 percent rate the economy as "good," 32 percent rate the economy as "only fair" and 34 percent rate the condition as "poor."
Trump's job approval in the new poll registered at 47 percent, with 52 percent disapproving.

Asked how history will judge Trump, 42 percent said he will be viewed as one of the worst presidents in history, 22 percent said he will be remembered as one of the greatest and 26 percent said he was average or above average.

The Fox News poll was conducted among 1,007 registered voters Dec. 6-9 2020.The poll has a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.
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What Manchin and Sinema got from their side, is worse than what these 13 republicans are getting.
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:faga::faga::faga::faga::faga::faga::faga::faga::f aga::faga::faga::faga::faga::faga:: stay in your rabbit hole it insulates you from actual facts

the topic isn't about civility ... you injected this deflection

their phone numbers are shared so they can enjoy a barrage of calls wishing they and their families die.

to add to the horror...Google is also sharing the phone numbers of members of congress..."oh, the humanity!!!???"
address too...:confused:

Representative Jim Langevin
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3 Google reviews
District government office in Warwick, Rhode Island
Address: 300 Centerville Rd # 200, Warwick, RI 02886
Phone: (401) 732-9400
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It's a "sad day in America" when lawmakers, their staff, and their family members are being threatened for how they choose to vote on legislation, Rep. Fred Upton, who received a threatening voicemail after voting for the $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill, said Sunday.

Welcome to the new GOP

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent
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It's a "sad day in America" when lawmakers, their staff, and their family members are being threatened for how they choose to vote on legislation, Rep. Fred Upton, who received a threatening voicemail after voting for the $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill, said Sunday.

Welcome to the new GOP

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent
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was it sad when Maxine Waters said on TV that people should confront republicans in public, to let them know they aren't welcome anytime, anywhere?

If this only a republican problem, tell that to Steve Scalise.

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent
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why has the national guard been activated in Wisconsin? because they’re afraid conservatives are going to riot? or afraid
liberals are going to riot?
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Rep. Fred Upton, who received a threatening voicemail

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pretty sure this is the first time this has ever happened since phones were invented

what have we become....???

why has the national guard been activated in Wisconsin?

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roasting marshmallows for the peaceful protestors...peaceful protestors will provide the campfires

why has the national guard been activated in Wisconsin? because they’re afraid conservatives are going to riot? or afraid
liberals are going to riot?
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So you think that comment doesn’t apply to them… also

I am happy that I am not a Fan boy !
of 17 year who killed 2 and shot one claiming self defense…

Ps get back to me when these people whom may or may not riot try to overthrow the government .
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So you think that comment doesn’t apply to them… also

I am happy that I am not a Fan boy !
of 17 year who killed 2 and shot one claiming self defense…

Ps get back to me when these people whom may or may not riot try to overthrow the government .
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for the 20th time, it was unbelievably stupid for rittenhouse to head there with a rifle.

but that has absolutely no bearing on the trial. because even stupid people are entitled to self defense.

“claiming self defense.”

FFS, one of them pointed a loaded gun at Rittenhouses head from 5 feet away. how is that NOT self defense? the guy who got shot, pointed his gun at rittenhouse, before rittenhouse raised his gun at him. open and shut self defense.
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So you think that comment doesn’t apply to them…
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you said something like “welcome to the new GOP”.

so no, you weren’t talking about BLM rioters.
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for the 20th time, it was unbelievably stupid for rittenhouse to head there with a rifle.

but that has absolutely no bearing on the trial. because even stupid people are entitled to self defense.

“claiming self defense.”

FFS, one of them pointed a loaded gun at Rittenhouses head from 5 feet away. how is that NOT self defense? the guy who got shot, pointed his gun at rittenhouse, before rittenhouse raised his gun at him. open and shut self defense.
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Maybe the guy who was pointing the gun saw an active shooter kill two people, but I guess it all depends on who’s shooting.
I can find plenty of rationalizations for shooting armed people that were seen as threats.
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Maybe the guy who was pointing the gun saw an active shooter kill two people, but I guess it all depends on who’s shooting.
I can find plenty of rationalizations for shooting armed people that were seen as threats.
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Doesn't matter what the guy who was pointing the gun thinks he saw. Rittenhouse still reacted in self defense. Including when he shot the other two that were chasing him and attacking him.

Ps get back to me when these people whom may or may not riot try to overthrow the government .

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Yes, the cell phone brigade was unable to overthrow the government…..
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Doesn't matter what the guy who was pointing the gun thinks he saw. Rittenhouse still reacted in self defense. Including when he shot the other two that were chasing him and attacking him.

Pete is frustrated again…
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Thank the GOP and Trump for finally bringing us infrastructure funding desperately needed, oh wait it’s NOT the all talk and no action guys win. Moscow Mitch ready to block everything, until it helps everyone including his constituents and then he is a no show for the signing, partisan hack.

Thank the GOP and Trump for finally bringing us infrastructure funding desperately needed, oh wait it’s NOT the all talk and no action guys win. Moscow Mitch ready to block everything, until it helps everyone including his constituents and then he is a no show for the signing, partisan hack.
the gop gets a huge F for not doing this when they could’ve.

despite your seething hatred, every single poll shows republicans holding huge leads for the midterms, as of now, which is a long way off obviously.
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despite your seething hatred

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he's been pretty cranky hasn't he....

The Wyoming Republican Party voted on Saturday to no longer recognize Rep. Liz Cheney (R-Wyo.) as a member of their party.

For not bending the knee to Trump… America 1st just another GOP scam

So Joe and Krysten still getting it worse ?
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The Wyoming Republican Party voted on Saturday to no longer recognize Rep. Liz Cheney (R-Wyo.) as a member of their party.


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you can have her if we get Tulsi Gabbard

you can have her if we get Tulsi Gabbard

amen to that.

wayne, is the DNC throwing parades for Manchin and Sinema right now? or are they being attacked non-stop? but according to you, that’s ok.

the GOP had a little civil war, it’s over, and the Liz Cheney faction got clobbered.

The democrat civil war is just starting, and man oh man is it entertaining.
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So Joe and Krysten still getting it worse ?
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they’re getting smeared non stop by the left. wait until there’s more attention to the social spending bill.

wayne, if the people back hime
feel cheney betrayed them, this is what she deserves. it’s called democracy. you think there’s a rule that you can’t criticize elected officials within your own party?


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The Republicans sure are being mean to Liz Cheney, someone who has the capacity to mount an independent spoiler run for POTUS in 2 years slicing off 5-8% of the R vote in places like PA or even Iowa. I’d donate.
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The Republicans sure are being mean to Liz Cheney, someone who has the capacity to mount an independent spoiler run for POTUS in 2 years slicing off 5-8% of the R vote in places like PA or even Iowa. I’d donate.
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are the democrats being mean to Manchin and Sinema?

what is a party supposed to do, when it feels a member isn’t being loyal?

politics is a contact sport.

Cheney might run as a republican in the primary and get trounced. if she runs as an independent in the general that would increase the odds of a democratic win for sure. unless Kamala is running, in which case every registered republican in the country could run for president, and many would still get more votes than she will.

turns out being black and female, doesn’t necessarily overcome being an unimpressive, unprincipled, stupid, cackling skank.
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are the democrats being mean to Manchin and Sinema?

what is a party supposed to do, when it feels a member isn’t being loyal?

politics is a contact sport.

Cheney might run as a republican in the primary and get trounced. if she runs as an independent in the general that would increase the odds of a democratic win for sure. unless Kamala is running, in which case every registered republican in the country could run for president, and many would still get more votes than she will.

turns out being black and female, doesn’t necessarily overcome being an unimpressive, unprincipled, stupid, cackling skank.
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Misogyny much?
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Misogyny much?
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i don’t think it’s sexist to call a skank a skank.
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feel cheney betrayed them, this is what she deserves. it’s called democracy. you think there’s a rule that you can’t criticize elected officials within your own party?

You have a twisted idea of Democracy…. Betrayed ! Lol. Can you say Radicalized
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feel cheney betrayed them, this is what she deserves. it’s called democracy. you think there’s a rule that you can’t criticize elected officials within your own party?

You have a twisted idea of Democracy…. Betrayed ! Lol. Can you say Radicalized
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they feel she betrayed them. it’s their opinion wayne, just as you have many opinions that a lot of people think are, well, not flawless.

my idea of democracy, is that people
who voted for liz cheney are allowed to criticize her if they feel betrayed.
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there’s a big difference between failing to exhibit fealty, and voting to impeach. you have your opinion. her constituents have theirs. If the GOP stayed in its 2010 course, Liz might have been destined for big things. The GOP is different now, less tolerance for republicans of her mold.

Pretty simple, if you don’t exhibit fealty to Trump they’ll attempt to throw you out of the party.
Because Trump is the party and it is party first, country second
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Pretty simple, if you don’t exhibit fealty to Trump they’ll attempt to throw you out of the party.
Because Trump is the party and it is party first, country second
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There is a land mass named the United States. When some people pledge allegiance to it, they have a vision of what it is, what their "country" is. What it is supposed to be according to whatever vision they've been taught, or have conjured on their own.

As individuals become members of groups and are cajoled into political parties, they either choose the party that seems to most closely align with the personal vision they experientially have grown into, or they simply inherit the party of their parents or of whatever societal tribe they belong to.

But the party they choose or inherit does not have the same vision of what the "country" is as does the other party (or parties). In the beginning, the vision of "our country" was pretty much, or at least fundamentally, the same for the two major parties. That original vision was informed by the Constitution the founders created.

As time passed with new generations of citizens with continuously changing visions of what the "country" is, or is supposed to be, the gap in vision between parties grew. Till today, the visions have become fundamentally opposed.

One party seems to prefer that we do not publicly make a formal pledge of allegiance to it, as that would offend some sensibilities. For that party, fealty to "country" verges on jingoistic nationalism. It supports kneeling in protest to what the flag represents. The borders separating our "country" from the rest of the world are more of an impediment than a protection. And for that party, the original uniting vision of what the country is politically, has also become an impediment. That binding, unifying document, must continually be evaded, overcome, while giving lip service to it with novel, contradictive interpretations. Rather, that party verges toward formal, legal, union with the rest of the world. Toward worldwide treaties that can bind us to world opinion and governance, and can be strong enough to supercede the limitations of the outdated U.S. constitution. That's all well and good if it's to your liking.

But it differs in so many ways from the vision of the "country" that the other party has which include opposition on things like our borders, the meaning of our Constitution, our view of exceptionalism, individual and religious liberty, right to bear arms, size and scope of government, marriage, life . . . even to the most fundamental division on what constitutes a man or a woman.

We live in the same land mass, but not in the same "country." The words country and nation are colloquially used interchangeably. But they have a formal distinct meaning. "Country" being a land mass, and "nation" being the political, social, cultural, etc., union. I put that word in quotes because expressions like "country first" usually are not merely referring to a land mass, but to a "nation." The intended meaning would more correctly be "nation first." We all live in the same defined land mass. But when we say "country first" we don't mean "land mass first."

On the other hand, maybe "country first" is appropriate to Progressives' vision of government. They have more affinity to the world, the global land mass, than merely being restricted to the U.S. "nation" which is too antiquated, provincial, and unfair according to their view of it..

Anyway, Trump is not the party. Hopefully, the party learned some important things from Trump--gained some political wisdom and know how that can appeal to Americans who are becoming aware of the stealth of this nation that progressivism has been covertly perpetrating for a century and is now more boldly and openly foisting on us. Politically, Trump is definitely "nation first." And that notion is horrific to Progressives. Understandably so. The Progressive doctrine is progressively morphing from its vision of administrated state power over this nation into the larger collective of administration over the Western world--and over the world eventually. And, of course, by experts who'll make it all good.

Liz Cheney is a conservative Republican in every traditional respect. But she will not lie for Trump -- which is why she's persona non grata in the GOP. "The Republican Party is more than Trump!" some people say, with annoyance. Oh? Not by the evidence.
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Liz Cheney is a conservative Republican in every traditional respect. But she will not lie for Trump -- which is why she's persona non grata in the GOP. "The Republican Party is more than Trump!" some people say, with annoyance. Oh? Not by the evidence.
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she’s a conservative in the bush/cheney neocon tradition. they have become less popular.

you can’t say everyone in the gop is either a cheney backer or a trumplican.

i like trump’s policies for the most part, i am disgusted by his personal behavior. that’s where much of the gop is right now. we want someone who will govern much like trump did ( again, whether you like it or not, his policies worked and were popular), without the loathsome behavior.

We want Trump without the spoiled brat 8 year old. that looks a lot
like Desantis to me. It also looks a lot like Desantis to many on the left, which is why they are terrified of him.
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she’s a conservative in the bush/cheney neocon tradition. they have become less popular.


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leftists hated bush/cheney but they suddenly love Liz...funny how that works

leftists hated bush/cheney but they suddenly love Liz...funny how that works

“the enemy of my enemy is my friend “, kind of a thing.
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Liz Cheney is a conservative Republican in every traditional respect. But she will not lie for Trump -- which is why she's persona non grata in the GOP. "The Republican Party is more than Trump!" some people say, with annoyance. Oh? Not by the evidence.
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So you're saying that the Republican party does whatever Trump wants? So if Trump were to change his policies, which align to a great extent on Republican party policies over the last several decades, and go all authoritarian Progressive left, you're saying the Republican party would follow right along?

No disloyalty of the president would be tolerated. No dissent would be tolerated

The new GOP
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No disloyalty of the president would be tolerated. No dissent would be tolerated

The new GOP
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no one criticized trump ? that’s what you’re saying? what planet do you live on?
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House Republicans in good standing with their state parties:
Paul Gosar
Marjorie Taylor Greene
Lauren Boebert
Matt Gaetz.

No longer recognized as a Republican by her state party:
Liz Cheney.

Today's Republican Party:
Lies and grift? Yes.
Truth and accountability? No.
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We all know the answer, don't we?

Reporter Asks Kevin McCarthy Why ‘Only Thing Republicans Will Punish One of Their Own Members for’ Is ‘Speaking Out Against Donald Trump’
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We all know the answer, don't we?

Reporter Asks Kevin McCarthy Why ‘Only Thing Republicans Will Punish One of Their Own Members for’ Is ‘Speaking Out Against Donald Trump’
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That's one of those normal everyday fake news questions that feed your TDS venom.

A lot of Republicans have spoken out against Trump. They have not been removed from the party.

House Republicans in good standing with their state parties:
Paul Gosar
Marjorie Taylor Greene
Lauren Boebert
Matt Gaetz.

Are they the only House Republicans in good standing with their state parties. Aren't most in good standing. Are you creating another one of your fake scenarios.

No longer recognized as a Republican by her state party:
Liz Cheney.

If the Wyoming voters disapprove, then the Wyoming Republican state party will not be in good standing.

Today's Republican Party:
Lies and grift? Yes.
Truth and accountability? No.
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A fake conclusion derived from a fake scenario.

Apparently you missed GOP leaders speech, where he within minutes went from condemning how few were evacuated from Afghanistan to complaining that it was too many.

“If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.”

— Dwight D. Eisenhower
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is this why the left and democrats have become insane authoritarians?

Apparently you missed GOP leaders speech, where he within minutes went from condemning how few were evacuated from Afghanistan to complaining that it was too many.

“If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.”

— Dwight D. Eisenhower
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The policies that Trump
implemented, were so popular, that Gallup’s poll showed a record number of americans said those policies made them better off. His numbers in that question beat every other president they ever polled. He wasn’t middle of the pack. Not a lot of ambiguity there.

Pete, what you think is right, and what people who aren’t in need of treatment for acute paranoid schizophrenia think is right, appear to be different.

why does the gop have half the senate, just less than half the house, and a majority of governorships and state legislatures? why did a blue state like VA, turn more than ten points to the right in one year?

it’s not a fringe, out of whack party. you desperately try to paint it is as such, because even you know you can’t rationally deny that there are some healthy ideas on the right. Not every idea they have is the greatest idea to be sure, but it’s nowhere near the satanic, apocalyptic cult that you and cnn and msnbc and wdmso and spence and Got Stripers wish it was
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I want a government run by the most intelligent and virtuous citizens, who in turn rely on experts as servants of the government. This puts me squarely with those elitist fuddy-duddies like James Madison and John Adams

Not people who would do this:
New documents show Trump Admin silenced CDC at start of pandemic, tried to alter expert scientific reports, and then tried to delete evidence they were doing so.

We were the most prepared nation in the world but now more than 750,000 Americans have died.
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I want a government run by the most intelligent and virtuous citizens, who in turn rely on experts as servants of the government. This puts me squarely with those elitist fuddy-duddies like James Madison and John Adams

Not people who would do this:
New documents show Trump Admin silenced CDC at start of pandemic, tried to alter expert scientific reports, and then tried to delete evidence they were doing so.

We were the most prepared nation in the world but now more than 750,000 Americans have died.
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"I want a government run by the most intelligent and virtuous citizens"

So who did you vote for in 2020, then? The guy who is clearly in early stages of dimentia, who in his 40 years in DC is known best for lying, plagiarizing, being a political pit bull for the left, who so unfairly blocked the nomination of Robert Bork to the Supreme Court that Websters literally added new word to the dictionary to describe it? A guy who lied about beating up a street tough named Corn Pop (a very common name among drug kingpins), who lied about formerly driving a tractor trailer, who told blacks that Republicans want to put them back in chains?

Spare me.

We both want leaders who will advocate for what we believe. And while we may wish they were also virtuous, that takes aback seat to having the right ideology.


"who in turn rely on experts as servants of the government"

Experts? Like the woman nominated to be in charge of our currency, who is a communist with a shoplifting record? Or the nominee to be in charge of civil rights at the DOJ who explicitly said blacks are physically, intellectually, and spiritually superior to whites? Experts like Kamala Harris, who polled below 1% in the democratic primary, and who got to be VP only because she has the right skin color and genetalia? Experts like Pete Buttigieg who goes out on paternity for weeks during a true crisis involving his area of responsibility?

Experts like our attorney general, who do nothing about violent riots in our cities, but who is OK with using the domestic terror label to describe parents who complain at BOE meetings?

Experts like Anthony Faucci, who have flip-flopped ten times on every single issue related to covid? Wearing a mask would be stupid.

Or experts like the teachers unions, who tell the administration to defy science to make life easier for their members, at our kids' expense.

Pete wants an administration who relies on experts.

Biden’s nominee to be i. charge if currency, is a former ( supposedly former) communist who was arrested for shoplifting from TJ Max.

she wrote recently that instead of banks, we should all have our savings and checking accounts either he federal government.

A totalitarian, commie, shoplifter is the best he could come up with? To be in charge of our currency?

It’s like a Saturday Night Live Skit. From back when SNL was funny.
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Amazing how you can repeat party lines verbatim and claim everyone else is a liar

It’s almost “Actually, Jesus wasn’t laid in a manger, manger is an English word and English didn’t exist then” season!
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Amazing how you can repeat party lines verbatim and claim everyone else is a liar

It’s almost “Actually, Jesus wasn’t laid in a manger, manger is an English word and English didn’t exist then” season!
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every single criticism of liberals, is a made-up “party line”?

Pete, this nominee to be in charge of currency…

do you deny she was arrested for shoplifting at a TJ Maxx as an adult?

Do you deny she write a paper in the last ten years, demonizing american financial
institutions and suggesting we all have savings and checking accounts managed by the federal government?

am i making that up?
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Pete wants an administration who relies on experts.

Biden’s nominee to be i. charge if currency, is a former ( supposedly former) communist who was arrested for shoplifting from TJ Max.

she wrote recently that instead of banks, we should all have our savings and checking accounts either he federal government.

A totalitarian, commie, shoplifter is the best he could come up with? To be in charge of our currency?

It’s like a Saturday Night Live Skit. From back when SNL was funny.
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Are you talking about the eminently qualified law professor at Cornell University?

Are you talking about the eminently qualified law professor at Cornell University?

yes i am. the one who wrote just a few years ago, that personal checking and savings accounts shouldn’t be held by private banks, but held by the federal government. who also was arrested for stealing from TJ Maxx.

sorry, being an ivy league professor is no longer ( if it ever was) an indicator of competence in ones field. plenty of jerks, crooks, kooks in the Ivy League.

and could care less that she was an active communist when she lived in the soviet union, no one chooses where they are born. what she has written in the last few years, is fair game to judge her by. and she’s a kook. and some kind of weird shoplifter apparently.
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every single criticism of liberals, is a made-up “party line”?

Pete, this nominee to be in charge of currency…

do you deny she was arrested for shoplifting at a TJ Maxx as an adult?

Do you deny she write a paper in the last ten years, demonizing american financial
institutions and suggesting we all have savings and checking accounts managed by the federal government?

am i making that up?
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Oh no, not demonizing bankers
We worship money, don’t we?

Hard to believe any college student would break a law.

Almost as hard to believe that anyone would suggest any banking be done by the federal government.

Most countries use their postal networks to deliver banking services — and so did the U.S. from 1911 to 1966.

It might even damage the business of check cashing businesses, payday loan companies, rent to own stores and other businesses that prey on low income folks.
How horrible
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Oh no, not demonizing bankers
We worship money, don’t we?

Hard to believe any college student would break a law.

Almost as hard to believe that anyone would suggest any banking be done by the federal government.

Most countries use their postal networks to deliver banking services — and so did the U.S. from 1911 to 1966.

It might even damage the business of check cashing businesses, payday loan companies, rent to own stores and other businesses that prey on low income folks.
How horrible
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Let’s re-cap….

Biden nominee: People
shouldn’t be allowed to have savings and checking accounts with private banks. They should be forced to bank with the federal government.

Pete: while i despise authoritarians, i support this, because it’s not at all authoritarian. nope, not at all.

Jim: that’s a radical idea

Pete: oh so you worship bankers?

it’s always one stupid extreme
or another with you thoughtless libs who can’t debate anything honestly. if i say her notion is kooky, you can’t refute that. you know you can’t refute that. so you act as if i said “ we can never criticize bankers”, because that’s easy to refute.

only, i never said that. as always, instead of just admitting she’s a tad radical, you claim i said something which i never came close to saying. you and wdmso do this on every single thread.

she is the extremist here. not me. well, her and you i guess

so in the last couple of days, i’ve tricked you into admitting that you think it’s a good sign that the overwhelming majority of those who control our economy, vote democrat.

and i’ve also tricked you into admitting what we all
knew already, that you are fine with authoritarians, as long as they dictate from the left.

keep responding to the voices in your head, instead of to what i post here.

Pulverized.
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Biden nominee: People
shouldn’t be allowed to have savings and checking accounts with private banks. They should be forced to bank with the federal government.

That's not at all what she said. Pete, do you ever get the feeling that say 80% of your inane rants are simply based on a lack of information?

They should give the job to Jared, he managed to secure a half a billion dollar loan from the Middle East to save his failing NYC building and if that’s not good corruption I don’t know what is.
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That's not at all what she said. Pete, do you ever get the feeling that say 80% of your inane rants are simply based on a lack of information?

it’s exactly what she said, and it was last year.

here is senator tim scott reading her own stated, written positions back to her. is scott lying? is he reading someone else’s words? or are you just wrong, again and again and again? she’s been grilled in this all day. not once did she say “i’m sorry, i didn’t write that.”.

https://www.scott.senate.gov/media-center/videos/watch/sen-scott-remarks-at-banking-hearing-on-nomination-of-dr-omarova-for-comptroller-of-the-currency
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That's not at all what she said. Pete, do you ever get the feeling that say 80% of your inane rants are simply based on a lack of information?

Haaaaaa….bidenesque
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Haaaaaa….bidenesque
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yeah there’s a biden typo in there.

meanwhile
i have videos of people
reading her written words. but spence denies she ever wrote it.
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meanwhile
i have videos of people
reading her written words. but spence denies she ever wrote it.

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Not the first time….
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Not the first time….
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he’s not always wrong, for sure. but he can never, ever, just admit a liberal was way wrong.
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here is senator tim scott reading her own stated, written positions back to her. is scott lying? is he reading someone else’s words?
It's not her stated position at all, it's an academic thought piece that in her own words...

As stated from the outset, the Article is meant to
be a synthesizing, boundary-defining exercise. Its goal is not to
repackage or refine familiar prescriptions but to expand the scope—and
to sharpen the focus—of the currently fragmented public debate on
what “democratizing finance” means in today’s complex world.

Academics do this stuff all the time. I'm not saying she wouldn't be harder on banks.

It's not her stated position at all, it's an academic thought piece that in her own words...



Academics do this stuff all the time. I'm not saying she wouldn't be harder on banks.

it’s purely hypothetical to say that american financial institutions are an azzhole business?
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it’s purely hypothetical to say that american financial institutions are an azzhole business?
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I think that was said during a speaking engagement, colorful language but really not that off base. Much of the financial industry is ruthless.

it’s purely hypothetical to say that american financial institutions are an azzhole business?
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spence loves his radical communist law professors...

spence loves his radical communist law professors...

radical communist = qualified.
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radical communist = qualified.
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You should read some of her papers.

You should read some of her papers.

i’ve heard others read it.

spence, do you ever stop playing defense attorney every single time someone criticizes a democrat? are you aware you did that, and assuming you are, doesn’t it strike you as odd that you can’t criticize a liberal?
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i’ve heard others read it.
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What you usually hear are fragments taken out of context.