Dunno, guys. May not be many stripers around in the summer much longer;
all be up near Nova Scotia. Time to fish for king and spanish mackerel!

https://wgme.com/news/local/fast-warming-gulf-of-maine-set-new-record-in-2021

The temperature at Concordia Research station atop Dome C on the Antarctic Plateau -- typically known as the coldest place on Earth -- surged to an astounding 11.3 degrees Fahrenheit (minus-11.5 Celsius) on March 18.
The normal high temperature for the day is around minus-56 Fahrenheit (minus-49 Celsius), which puts the March 18 reading at close to 70 degrees Fahrenheit (around 38 Celsius) warmer than normal.

Nothing to see for some ...

It’s going to be a tough road for our young if the trend continues, time to go rent water world and get me a fast cat.

I am happy that all of those screaming climate change from the rafters are insisting that people making minimum wage should just buy a 50K electric car powered by wind or solar.

Well obviously, the price needs to come down; but it’s been dropping lately. And as for solar, just put it in last year. A great deal! Got 5k in tax writeoffs on a 15k purchase; will also get great resale value on our house too, more than the original purchase price.
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Well obviously, the price needs to come down; but it’s been dropping lately. And as for solar, just put it in last year. A great deal! Got 5k in tax writeoffs on a 15k purchase; will also get great resale value on our house too, more than the original purchase price.
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If I stay in current house, I will get solar, if I get a new house, I will get solar. But the price coming down, and more adoption of solar, does not solve our energy needs. You cannot draw a line between where we are to what the "experts" say we'll need.

If the WeGottaGoGreenOrWeDie crowd was serious, they would have been prioritizing GenIII/GenIV Nuclear.

If the WeGottaGoGreenOrWeDie crowd was serious, they would have been prioritizing GenIII/GenIV Nuclear.

This.

Well obviously, the price needs to come down; but it’s been dropping lately. And as for solar, just put it in last year. A great deal! Got 5k in tax writeoffs on a 15k purchase; will also get great resale value on our house too, more than the original purchase price.
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I also have solar panels on my house. I like them, and I'd do it again if I had to. But I'm not certain it always increases home value in all cases.

It's not just the price of electric cars that needs to come WAY down, though it obviously does. The range needs to increase, we need way more charging stations, and last but not least, we need a way to generate the electricity to power all those charging stations. Wind and solar aren't even worth mentioning, they're nowhere near sufficient. Nuclear would do it, but we aren't supposed to talk about that. Are we supposed to rub balloons on our heads all day long?

I have a friend who has been a commercial lobsterman in P-Town for many years. After two years of dismal catches, he's left the industry, he can't make a living in Cape Cod Bay. The line below which water is too warm for lobsters, is moving north, rapidly. The water is obviously warming, and it's having bad effects.

If I stay in current house, I will get solar, if I get a new house, I will get solar. But the price coming down, and more adoption of solar, does not solve our energy needs. You cannot draw a line between where we are to what the "experts" say we'll need.

If the WeGottaGoGreenOrWeDie crowd was serious, they would have been prioritizing GenIII/GenIV Nuclear.

EXACTLY. Exactly, exactly, exactly.

If you get solar panels, make sure that (1) either they lie close enough to your roof that birds can't get in there, or (2) that you have mesh fencing around them to keep birds out. You'll never hear a solar panel salesmen say this, but panels are bird magnets. We had a bird infestation of biblical proportions under our panels. These birds were way past merely building nests, they were putting in roads and schools and electing a planning & zoning committee, under my panels until we had them cleaned out. I thought they were going to take my house by eminent domain. It was disgusting. It was funny, but also very disgusting.

I am happy that all of those screaming climate change from the rafters are insisting that people making minimum wage should just buy a 50K electric car powered by wind or solar.

I see that said a lot but that sounds pretty disingenuous. Guessing it is a right wing talking point coming from faux news. People could drive a corolla for 15k and double their fuel economy and have a pretty large net impact as a whole. No sympathy for people getting 20 mpg in their daily drivers when it comes to gas prices. Plenty of inexpensive new or pre-owned efficient cars. Also, a fully electric mid sized kia is about 12k below the average price of a car last year, after incentives; 5k below average without.
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If I stay in current house, I will get solar, if I get a new house, I will get solar. But the price coming down, and more adoption of solar, does not solve our energy needs. You cannot draw a line between where we are to what the "experts" say we'll need.

If the WeGottaGoGreenOrWeDie crowd was serious, they would have been prioritizing GenIII/GenIV Nuclear.

They have had to fight against corporate interests and their cronies on the right every step of the way for the last forty years. That is a huge part of where we are today.
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There are many benefits to living in the little hamlet of Pascoag.

One of the best is our little non=profit electric company. We pay .03 a KwH. National Greed charges .10 a KwH.

Thus, my bill all winter has been $70 to $80. Even with central air running all summer we are about $140 to $150.

I see that said a lot but that sounds pretty disingenuous. Guessing it is a right wing talking point coming from faux news. People could drive a corolla for 15k and double their fuel economy and have a pretty large net impact as a whole. No sympathy for people getting 20 mpg in their daily drivers when it comes to gas prices. Plenty of inexpensive new or pre-owned efficient cars. Also, a fully electric mid sized kia is about 12k below the average price of a car last year, after incentives; 5k below average without.
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it’s not a right wing talking point that our secretary of transportation, recently suggested that if people are struggling to pay $4.50 for a gallon of gas, the answer is to buy a tremendously expensive electric car. or to take the bus.

lots of people have honda and toyota sedans and they’re paying the same % increase at the pump.

biden didn’t cause all the hike in gas, much is due to a post covid surge in demand, and that was going to happen regardless of who was potus at the time. but his administration likely made it worse, and their reaction has been very elitist and tone deaf. hence the polling.

just looked at kias website, cheapest electric i see is $39,999. then there are $7500 tax incentives? i actually like the look of that car a lot. but there no way there’s nearly enough of them. there’s not enough electric cars, they’re too expensive, their range makes them
impractical for many, there aren’t nearly enough charging stations, and if there were enough, there’s not enough nearly enough electricity.

and i have a nissan leaf that i love, with a home charging system
that’s great . whenever i’m driving myself, i drive that. but we also have a minivan and an f-150 because we have to have them. three big teenage boys, all their crap, a big camper, and a big goofy golden retriever.
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They have had to fight against corporate interests and their cronies on the right every step of the way for the last forty years. That is a huge part of where we are today.
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oh give me a break, anyone who finds a way to make renewable
energy work, will be the worlds first trilliionaire. all the incentive in the world is there. Turns out, it’s just not an easy thing to pull off. there’s very smart people dedicated to this.

from the 1933 to 1994, the gop controlled congress for a whopping 4 years. 4 years out of 60. so how is this all the GOP’s fault, exactly?
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There are many benefits to living in the little hamlet of Pascoag.

One of the best is our little non=profit electric company. We pay .03 a KwH. National Greed charges .10 a KwH.

Thus, my bill all winter has been $70 to $80. Even with central air running all summer we are about $140 to $150.

here in the hartford suburbs, most of us are forced to use eversourve. couple of summers ago, they instituted “delivery charges” on the electric bills, my delivery charges are larger than the cost of the electricity i buy.

before i put panels in, ( we have central air and an in ground pool
with electric heat pump), i had an august electric bull in 2016 that was $565. that was more than the mortgage on the first condo we owned.
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Green energy is nothing more than a huge $$$ grab !!!
Certain groups are getting filthy rich off it !
Show me a politician or one of the beautiful people in Hollyweird driving a Prius, have solar panels on the mansions or not flying around on private jets !
If this country is so concerned with the environment why aren’t we getting after China and other countries who have no concern about the environment, instead we sell out all our manufacturing to them and depend on them and their crap we need.
Auto manufacturers have technology that they can run the internal combustion engine on water/hydrogen but instead they own every patent on the technology to make sure it’s not utilized, why ????
Where’s the profit 🤔🤔🤔

I see that said a lot but that sounds pretty disingenuous. Guessing it is a right wing talking point coming from faux news. People could drive a corolla for 15k and double their fuel economy and have a pretty large net impact as a whole. No sympathy for people getting 20 mpg in their daily drivers when it comes to gas prices. Plenty of inexpensive new or pre-owned efficient cars. Also, a fully electric mid sized kia is about 12k below the average price of a car last year, after incentives; 5k below average without.
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It's not a Right wing talking point - it's math & physics.

Solar generates about 3% or US power (Guv hopes to get it to 20% in 25-30 years.)
Wind generates 9%
Hydro 6%
All other renewables 1%
So about 20%

Coal is 22%
Gas is 38%
Nuclear is 20%

If you are honest about power generation, you are not going to replace 60% of the US Power Generation with Solar and Wind.

And ^^^^ THIS is just to replace CURRENT energy generation. Before a mile is put on a car.







They have had to fight against corporate interests and their cronies on the right every step of the way for the last forty years. That is a huge part of where we are today.
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Let's have some lifetime Guv bureaucrats come up with the solutiuoin - that'll work.

if we dont stop clear cutting forests and strip mining the land... nothing that anyone does is going to matter..every day shade trees are cut down to make room for more condos... rain forests are stripped for timber and development, yet we worry about green house gasses, those very trees, besides making shade and providing their own climate CLEAN THE AIR.

I'd like to see windmills and solar panels on the roofs and in the yards of all the people pushing this agenda.. every Beverly hills mansion and house in the Hamptons should have 2 wind mills! ...and then they can put the LI battery rebuild center in their garages...

when battery power is practical for EVERYONE, people will have no problem switching, let the people decide on their own...stop with the political agenda, I for one am sick and tired of it...

Yup the math doesn't look good and the problem is the world as a whole is reactive not proactive and even though the warnings of climate change severely impacting weather patterns, cautions about ice packs disappearing causing sea level rises and the like; we aren't really in much of a better place then ten years ago. My kids and their kids are going to be the ones dealt the hard hand in the years to come.

I read some of this on another site

All these actions some people do for the environment is like peeing yourself with dark pants on. It makes you feel nice and warm but nobody notices.

That kind of sums it up.

The world is millions or billions of years old. How many ice ages and warm ups has it been thru. Nothing nothing man does will stop that from happening again.
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When I was a kid in the late 70’s early 80’s in Quincy my parents put solar hot water panels in the roof. Lots of money incentives made the price low.

That worked very well. 80 gal tank in the basement. Even worked in the winter. No hazmat spent photo panels at end of life.

Saved us some oil for sure.
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I read some of this on another site

All these actions some people do for the environment is like peeing yourself with dark pants on. It makes you feel nice and warm but nobody notices.

That kind of sums it up.

The world is millions or billions of years old. How many ice ages and warm ups has it been thru. Nothing nothing man does will stop that from happening again.
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https://youtu.be/7W33HRc1A6c
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Thanks for that. Perfect
Not even a comedy act. Just factual history. Carlin was awesome
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So you guys will like this story

One of my sisters and husband whom are both wicked smaht and have made a good name and living for themselves are installing geothermal heating cooling on their property

I think this is really neat and I have always thought of this

So I ask how much is this costing like 30k. Ahhhhhh. No 150k
OMG so you just have that burning a hole in your pocket and feel good about doing your part saving the earth.

I have not gave her the earful yet but will. Oh did I mention she has a Prius. Ya. This kills me.

I am an engineer. So I think this is neat but think about this. So it comes out of the earth at something like 57deg. So you don’t need to use electricity to run an air con compressor in the summer. But you need electricity to run the geo pumps. Not sure the amp diffference but you saving what in the end.

Hence back to the peeing in dark pants comment.

Oh boy.
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here in the hartford suburbs, most of us are forced to use eversourve. couple of summers ago, they instituted “delivery charges” on the electric bills, my delivery charges are larger than the cost of the electricity i buy.

before i put panels in, ( we have central air and an in ground pool
with electric heat pump), i had an august electric bull in 2016 that was $565. that was more than the mortgage on the first condo we owned.
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INSANE! Almost $600 for electric!

It's not a Right wing talking point - it's math & physics.


I was referring to this part of what you said "I am happy that all of those screaming climate change from the rafters are insisting that people making minimum wage should just buy a 50K electric car powered by wind or solar."

Who is insisting that people making minimum wage should just buy a 50k electric car? I can see why the faux types would say that as it gets nutters wound up.

And you don't want the guv bureaucrats to come up with the solution, but is it ok they already stacked it in favor of the problematic side. One is ok to some people and the other isn't. That is why we are where we are. It's all about money and picking teams. Ironically, demand and therefore consumption and therefore prices and would be a lot lower if it weren't from the ff industry grip on politicians, particulary the nutters.

When I was a kid in the late 70’s early 80’s in Quincy my parents put solar hot water panels in the roof. Lots of money incentives made the price low.

That worked very well. 80 gal tank in the basement. Even worked in the winter. No hazmat spent photo panels at end of life.

Saved us some oil for sure.
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We put 18k out of pocket for a 11.1kw solar system. Based on the life of the system, we should have about 18 years of free electricity after that. Not everyone can do the straight purchase, but there are reasonable ways to finance. The hazmat spent panels will happen someday though.

So you guys will like this story

One of my sisters and husband whom are both wicked smaht and have made a good name and living for themselves are installing geothermal heating cooling on their property

I think this is really neat and I have always thought of this

So I ask how much is this costing like 30k. Ahhhhhh. No 150k
OMG so you just have that burning a hole in your pocket and feel good about doing your part saving the earth.

I have not gave her the earful yet but will. Oh did I mention she has a Prius. Ya. This kills me.

I am an engineer. So I think this is neat but think about this. So it comes out of the earth at something like 57deg. So you don’t need to use electricity to run an air con compressor in the summer. But you need electricity to run the geo pumps. Not sure the amp diffference but you saving what in the end.

Hence back to the peeing in dark pants comment.

Oh boy.
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You buy a boat, she buys geothermal. To each their own. However, you are right, she is never making it back and retrofit is not the way to do geothermal.

We put 18k out of pocket for a 11.1kw solar system. Based on the life of the system, we should have about 18 years of free electricity after that. Not everyone can do the straight purchase, but there are reasonable ways to finance. The hazmat spent panels will happen someday though..

I think the fact that you did this is great.

But I am more a realist.
18k / 18 years. A grand a year this costs you. What is you normal juice bill 150 a month. 1800 a year? So you save 800/ yr.

That’s not a head turner.
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https://youtu.be/7W33HRc1A6c
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Funny stuff, unfortunately as realistic as that probably is, there is potentially a lot of hurt between now and the point man has f*cked himself to the point of extinction.

It's not a Right wing talking point - it's math & physics.

Solar generates about 3% or US power (Guv hopes to get it to 20% in 25-30 years.)
Wind generates 9%
Hydro 6%
All other renewables 1%
So about 20%

Coal is 22%
Gas is 38%
Nuclear is 20%

If you are honest about power generation, you are not going to replace 60% of the US Power Generation with Solar and Wind.

And ^^^^ THIS is just to replace CURRENT energy generation. Before a mile is put on a car.









Let's have some lifetime Guv bureaucrats come up with the solutiuoin - that'll work.

If everyone didn't hit the nuclear panic button after 3 Mile Island, the US could be producing much more nuclear generated power. It was the solution. The incident at 3 Mile Island showed that safeguards worked. The release of a minimal amount of steam killed the future of the nuclear power industry. I lived about 10 miles south of Pilgrim, and it was the least of my worries.

Here, almost half of our power comes from nuclear and hydro. Only about 4.5% from natural gas, 3% from coal, and the latter is being phased out. We actually burn wood for power, too, about 13% of it comes from wood. Power plants also provide steam for municipal heating in winter.

INSANE! Almost $600 for electric!

Yes, and that was several years ago. My wife is home full time with 3 kids, they like to keep the AC cranking and they like the pool water warm. Not sure why the house has to be a meat locker while the pool has to be a jacuzzi. But the solar panels helped quite a bit.

I was referring to this part of what you said "I am happy that all of those screaming climate change from the rafters are insisting that people making minimum wage should just buy a 50K electric car powered by wind or solar."

Who is insisting that people making minimum wage should just buy a 50k electric car? I can see why the faux types would say that as it gets nutters wound up.

And you don't want the guv bureaucrats to come up with the solution, but is it ok they already stacked it in favor of the problematic side. One is ok to some people and the other isn't. That is why we are where we are. It's all about money and picking teams. Ironically, demand and therefore consumption and therefore prices and would be a lot lower if it weren't from the ff industry grip on politicians, particulary the nutters.

"Who is insisting that people making minimum wage should just buy a 50k electric car? I can see why the faux types would say that as it gets nutters wound up. "

Pete Buttigieg, the transportation secretary, that's who. He said if you have a problem with paying $4.50 for a gallon of gas, the solution was to go buy an electric car. That's a stupid and elitist thing to say for many reasons, but that's what he said.

.

I think the fact that you did this is great.

But I am more a realist.
18k / 18 years. A grand a year this costs you. What is you normal juice bill 150 a month. 1800 a year? So you save 800/ yr.

That’s not a head turner.
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Our bill was 190-220 a month. Also, you have to add in the difference from inflation and other ways the electric company will stick it to people for those 18 years. Plus that money can be on the market or other investments. Not chump change in any way. Your math wasn't exactly right. Break even in 7 years. They last 25 years. At saving $200 a month after break even is $2400 a year or about about 43K saved in energy bills over 18 years. Reality is probably closer to 60k with inflation.
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I was referring to this part of what you said "I am happy that all of those screaming climate change from the rafters are insisting that people making minimum wage should just buy a 50K electric car powered by wind or solar."

Who is insisting that people making minimum wage should just buy a 50k electric car? I can see why the faux types would say that as it gets nutters wound up.

And you don't want the guv bureaucrats to come up with the solution, but is it ok they already stacked it in favor of the problematic side. One is ok to some people and the other isn't. That is why we are where we are. It's all about money and picking teams. Ironically, demand and therefore consumption and therefore prices and would be a lot lower if it weren't from the ff industry grip on politicians, particulary the nutters.




You can't BUY a $15,000 Corolla. Whether on minimum wage or not.

Most of us here are not minimum wage and can grumpily withstand $4/gal fuel more easily than new parents or those starting out.

We have two problems, immediate supply and pricing of fuels that is hampered by Biden Admin, and long term converting where applicable from fossil fuels to more safe power generation" Nuke, some NatGas, and renewables.

And it really means squat if we do all this work and China, India, and others do not. We are sure AF cleaner drilling for oil, extracting it, and processing it than just about anyone else.



And yes, the GUV bureaucrats can't outline a plan that will get us from where we are to where we need to be. If they did you would have seen some. Instead we'll have stupid unimplementable requirements like those in the Green New Deal. But sure, right wing talking points.

If everyone didn't hit the nuclear panic button after 3 Mile Island, the US could be producing much more nuclear generated power. It was the solution. The incident at 3 Mile Island showed that safeguards worked. The release of a minimal amount of steam killed the future of the nuclear power industry. I lived about 10 miles south of Pilgrim, and it was the least of my worries.

Here, almost half of our power comes from nuclear and hydro. Only about 4.5% from natural gas, 3% from coal, and the latter is being phased out. We actually burn wood for power, too, about 13% of it comes from wood. Power plants also provide steam for municipal heating in winter.


Yes, and the systems they are coming out with now both are not breeder reactors - so they do not generate weapons grade materials in output, and the newest designs being engineered can even use nuclear waste or easy to find materials as fuel.

It is also the only SERIOUS way to power this country if one intends to stop using fossil fuels. Any other plan is absolutely absurd, foolish, and won't work.

You can't BUY a $15,000 Corolla. Whether on minimum wage or not.

Most of us here are not minimum wage and can grumpily withstand $4/gal fuel more easily than new parents or those starting out.

We have two problems, immediate supply and pricing of fuels that is hampered by Biden Admin, and long term converting where applicable from fossil fuels to more safe power generation" Nuke, some NatGas, and renewables.

And it really means squat if we do all this work and China, India, and others do not. We are sure AF cleaner drilling for oil, extracting it, and processing it than just about anyone else.



And yes, the GUV bureaucrats can't outline a plan that will get us from where we are to where we need to be. If they did you would have seen some. Instead we'll have stupid unimplementable requirements like those in the Green New Deal. But sure, right wing talking points.
You keep ignoring the point, but I guess no one really is insisting people on minimum wage but a 50K electric car. If it isn't a right wing talking point, I don't know where you got it. They do keep spewing that nonsense.

The Biden gas price thing is also right wing b.s. Prior to Ukraine, we were producing domestic oil at levels in the range of or higher at times than 2016 to 2020. Opec cut production during the pandemic and never raised it once demand increased. Increased global demand coupled with limited global supply caused the squeeze. It is a lie or just ignorance to pin it on Biden and the pundits and nutters in office know it, but it helps them get elected.

Oh yeah, and nuclear is so expensive. Big part of why we don't build new plants to go along with people in power are put there by coal and oil industries.

You two... off to the political forum! :)
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You keep ignoring the point, but I guess no one really is insisting people on minimum wage but a 50K electric car. If it isn't a right wing talking point, I don't know where you got it. They do keep spewing that nonsense.

The Biden gas price thing is also right wing b.s. Prior to Ukraine, we were producing domestic oil at levels in the range of or higher at times than 2016 to 2020. Opec cut production during the pandemic and never raised it once demand increased. Increased global demand coupled with limited global supply caused the squeeze. It is a lie or just ignorance to pin it on Biden and the pundits and nutters in office know it, but it helps them get elected.

Oh yeah, and nuclear is so expensive. Big part of why we don't build new plants to go along with people in power are put there by coal and oil industries.


https://twitter.com/greg_price11/status/1509592374435061761

BIDEN: "A typical driver will save about $80 a month from not having to pay gas at the pump" if they just buy an electric car.

Out of deference to JoeyFig, wanna move this to the Political Forum?




You two... off to the political forum! :)
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Okay ; )

Only the far right thinks Green energy is a scam and the far left think the world can exist oil free.

While normal humans see the benefit of a multiple prong approach to energy..

Imagine if the wheel was never adopted because people thought it was a hoax or was more worried it was going to put the horse out of business..
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Only the far right thinks Green energy is a scam and the far left think the world can exist oil free.

While normal humans see the benefit of a multiple prong approach to energy..

Imagine if the wheel was never adopted because people thought it was a hoax or was more worried it was going to put the horse out of business..
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Meanwhile back in CCB, the waters not warm enough, skunk on the flatties today….

https://twitter.com/greg_price11/status/1509592374435061761



Out of deference to JoeyFig, wanna move this to the Political Forum?

Okay ; )

I don't go in that cesspool of humanity anymore :deadhorse:. Woulda been best if I ignored this thread, too. As a last word before I go catch the bottom of the drop, all of these but the Tesla's (which don't qualify) are between about 23-31k after incentives under normal market conditions. https://www.autotrader.com/best-cars/10-cheapest-evs

So... he is right and nobody is screaming for 50k cars for minimum wage earners :bshake: Transition has started whether Exxon or Tucker C want it or not.

Yes it has. And it will pick up speed over the next few years. Wind is growing steadily, while solar is growing almost exponentially; it will be about 5% of the total this year, and nearly 20 in MA. I see no reason why wind and solar could not be at least 40% of the total by the end of the decade, and maybe more.
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this article was written by Michael Shellenberger, who the New York Times called “a hero of the environment”.

he has a different take on wind and solar. i don’t know if he’s right, or if those who say wind and solar are obviously the answer, are right. i do know that he raises many points that the environmentalists never, ever speak about. Either he’s lying, or the environmentalists are being very misleading.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/quillette.com/2019/02/27/why-renewables-cant-save-the-planet/amp/
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No, renewables alone cannot do it. The other part has to come from a commitment to conservation; using telecommuting, retrofitting homes, putting in LED lights, cutting back on jet air travel; these are all a large part of the solution.
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No, renewables alone cannot do it. The other part has to come from a commitment to conservation; using telecommuting, retrofitting homes, putting in LED lights, cutting back on jet air travel; these are all a large part of the solution.
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but switching to EVs means we need a lot more electricity.

oil or nuclear generated electricity will play a big role. has to, unless a new technology emerges which is possible.
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Maybe; depends on how much we conserve elsewhere.
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I think wind and solar play a part, but if they double it won't be close to enough.




Zimmy - you can't get them even IF you had the money.