No gun problem in the US [Archive] - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

PaulS

05-25-2022, 08:03 AM

one party controls the white house and both chambers of congress. If there’s any low hanging fruit that will help, what are they waiting for?

there’s many pieces to this. We need to at least try something different with guns, though that’s unlikely to make
much of a dent. the guns are out there, untold millions of them.

our mental illness infastructire isn’t working, and that will get worse with each generation spends more time online and less time connecting with people in meaningful ways.

we need more close knit families teaching their kids why empathy is important. we’re getting further and further away from that every day.

it’s not just guns. it’s us.

biden sure was mad that we aren’t doing anything. Since he’s apparently not in a position to do anything, maybe he should write a letter to his congressman.
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Look at Killingly CT. They could have had a cost free mental health center at the high school but the board of Ed said no because of politics:

The controversial decision has been mired in politics. Those opposed to the mental health center have raised complaints and references more commonly heard from the political right: cancel culture, Hillary Clinton, abortion, gender identity. Some wonder if schools are the best place for mental health care.

Norm Ferron, who was elected the new chairman during the board’s April 13 meeting, said he voted against the school mental health center because he was concerned that kids might get counseling about “controversial topics.”

“Basically, what is a stranger to the parents can be advising their child on any issue,” he said. “They might be giving them counseling directly opposed to the views of the parents.”

The Killingly Board of Education is used to controversy. In recent months, it voted down a proposal to host a vaccine clinic at the school and rescinded the district’s mask policy with language that makes it harder to bring back. Many members ran on the promise that they would reinstate the school’s controversial mascot, the Redmen, which they did in 2020.

Let's not forget that Abbott also said that he was embarrassed that TX was only #2 in gun ownership.

Jim in CT

05-25-2022, 08:15 AM

Look at Killingly CT. They could have had a cost free mental health center at the high school but the board of Ed said no because of politics:

The controversial decision has been mired in politics. Those opposed to the mental health center have raised complaints and references more commonly heard from the political right: cancel culture, Hillary Clinton, abortion, gender identity. Some wonder if schools are the best place for mental health care.

Norm Ferron, who was elected the new chairman during the board’s April 13 meeting, said he voted against the school mental health center because he was concerned that kids might get counseling about “controversial topics.”

“Basically, what is a stranger to the parents can be advising their child on any issue,” he said. “They might be giving them counseling directly opposed to the views of the parents.”

The Killingly Board of Education is used to controversy. In recent months, it voted down a proposal to host a vaccine clinic at the school and rescinded the district’s mask policy with language that makes it harder to bring back. Many members ran on the promise that they would reinstate the school’s controversial mascot, the Redmen, which they did in 2020.

Let's not forget that Abbott also said that he was embarrassed that TX was only #2 in gun ownership.

One example of many. I could fill the internet with examples of liberals wanting to make it harder to commit the mentally ill. And many examples of liberals saying the nuclear family is anachronistic.

Both sides contribute to this Paul. I have no idea what happened in Killingly, and I also know there's no such thing as free, particularly when it comes to public education. I'd like to see a teachers union in this state agreeing to do anything for free. And I lived there, I know what I'm talking about.

Paul, if the GOP is all that's stopping us from solving this, please explain why the democrats controlling the white house and both chambers of Congress, haven't proposed a single thing in 18 months that would effect this? What's stopping them?

The GOP needs to be more flexible on guns, that's one part of this, probably a small part. The left needs to concede the benefits of the traditional nuclear family and old-fashioned family values (guns were available in the 1950s, but this stuff didn't happen like we see today, because our culture then was superior in some ways) and start encouraging it, rather than constantly attacking it. How many murderers come from families with a mom and a dad and a golden retriever in the house, where they go to church on Sundays, eat supper together most nights, and get involved in scouting and camping and fishing and all those healthy activities? I'd bet very, very few. So why not encourage those tings, rather than attack them constantly?

Blame all around.

Jim in CT

05-25-2022, 08:25 AM

Two little kids are still missing today, did I hear that right? Why would that be? This wasn't a 9/11 type event...

Hope they're OK and we can have a little tiny something to be thankful for.

Pete F.

05-25-2022, 09:01 AM

detbuch

05-25-2022, 09:36 AM

USA: It's a mental health issue.

WORLD: We have those. We don't have mass shootings.

USA: Then it's a video game issue.

WORLD: We have those. We don't have mass shootings.

USA: It's very complex.

WORLD: No, it's gun laws.

USA: Prayer in school?

WORLD: God, you're stupid.
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"World"? You mean like Africa, Mexico, and South and Central America too. Check this out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mass_shootings_in_Europe_by_year

Pete F.

05-25-2022, 10:13 AM

"World"? You mean like Africa, Mexico, and South and Central America too. Check this out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mass_shootings_in_Europe_by_year

Don’t worry bucko, we’re leading the rest of the world

A shooting at an elementary school in Uvalde, Texas, that has killed 19 children and two adults marks the 27th school shooting this year and the 212th mass shooting.
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Got Stripers

05-25-2022, 11:57 AM

"World"? You mean like Africa, Mexico, and South and Central America too. Check this out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mass_shootings_in_Europe_by_year

Wow staggering three mass shootings in Europe this year, limited deaths in comparison to the 40+ in the US this year, I think you might have embarrassed yourself with that nugget.

I don’t think anyone can argue the mental health aspect of this problem is a big part, but there is no way to track or even predict who might snap, even if no previous evidence exists. Access to guns and especially high powered assault style weapons, in addition to the millions of stolen, illegal and now ghost guns is the bigger problem.

I get the constitutional 2A argument, but when that was written consider arms were basically on an even footing. I doubt the intent was to have the ability to arm yourself with anything, when the next lethal weapon of war is developed, does any citizen have the right to arm up if his neighbors are?

Jim in CT

05-25-2022, 12:30 PM

I get the constitutional 2A argument, but when that was written consider arms were basically on an even footing. I doubt the intent was to have the ability to arm yourself with anything, when the next lethal weapon of war is developed, does any citizen have the right to arm up if his neighbors are?

So do we let the president or congress disregard the parts of the constitution they don't happen to like? I don't disagree with you in theory, but if we let Biden decide which parts of the constitution he can ignore, say Trump wins again in 2024, are you comfortable letting Trump decide which parts of the constitution he can ignore?

There are also 100 million (/) guns out there. Tougher gun laws aren't going to involve confiscating them.

Doesn't mean we don't try to do something, but both sides need to be more honest, less partisan, about the components of the problem, and the pros and cons of solutions.

And I'd love to see a study that shows how many Americans are killed in these random mass shootings versus killed in garden variety gun violence, and how much media coverage each tragedy gets.

Pete F.

05-25-2022, 12:33 PM

Well let’s see, what’s the average age of mass shooters
This one was18, maybe it should be harder to buy guns than beer.
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Pete F.

05-25-2022, 12:39 PM

detbuch

05-25-2022, 01:06 PM

Wow staggering three mass shootings in Europe this year, limited deaths in comparison to the 40+ in the US this year, I think you might have embarrassed yourself with that nugget.

So in 2021 there were seven mass shootings in Europe--33 killed and 79 injured. Are those acceptable numbers? Would 40 dead and 100 injured be acceptable? Would 50 dead and 110 injured be an acceptable number for mass shootings in the U.S. Would guns not be a problem with those numbers.

What is the acceptable number of deaths and injures from mass shootings in the U.S. below which guns would not be the problem and above which they would be the problem?

My response was to Pete F in which he quoted "world" as saying "We don't have mass shootings."

That is blatantly false, as my response showed. And in other parts of the world, such as Africa and the Americas south of our border, the numbers are worse than ours.

So, what's the magic number of deaths and injuries at which we will be OK with guns, and above which guns are the culprit?

Raider Ronnie

05-25-2022, 01:43 PM

Anyone that believes the Goberment wants more gun control & laws probably also believes the goberment gives a crap about blacks, Hispanics, gays ect…….

Nothing will change.
A few weeks in the news and back to business as usual.
Of course, The media will do its best to spin this that the shooter was a white KKK loving White supremacists
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Pete F.

05-25-2022, 02:10 PM

So in 2021 there were seven mass shootings in Europe--33 killed and 79 injured. Are those acceptable numbers? Would 40 dead and 100 injured be acceptable? Would 50 dead and 110 injured be an acceptable number for mass shootings in the U.S. Would guns not be a problem with those numbers.

What is the acceptable number of deaths and injures from mass shootings in the U.S. below which guns would not be the problem and above which they would be the problem?

My response was to Pete F in which he quoted "world" as saying "We don't have mass shootings."

That is blatantly false, as my response showed. And in other parts of the world, such as Africa and the Americas south of our border, the numbers are worse than ours.

So, what's the magic number of deaths and injuries at which we will be OK with guns, and above which guns are the culprit?

One could say it’s roughly the same as abortions
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Got Stripers

05-25-2022, 02:26 PM

So in 2021 there were seven mass shootings in Europe--33 killed and 79 injured. Are those acceptable numbers? Would 40 dead and 100 injured be acceptable? Would 50 dead and 110 injured be an acceptable number for mass shootings in the U.S. Would guns not be a problem with those numbers.

What is the acceptable number of deaths and injures from mass shootings in the U.S. below which guns would not be the problem and above which they would be the problem?

My response was to Pete F in which he quoted "world" as saying "We don't have mass shootings."

That is blatantly false, as my response showed. And in other parts of the world, such as Africa and the Americas south of our border, the numbers are worse than ours.

So, what's the magic number of deaths and injuries at which we will be OK with guns, and above which guns are the culprit?

Nobody believes (or at least I don’t) no mass shootings happen elsewhere, but it really is unique to the US in terms of the numbers, we are well over 200 deaths for the year. Way too many guns and way to easy for anyone to get their hands on one. Both sides of the isle really need to figure this out or this disconnected society will continue to kill our own children.

wdmso

05-25-2022, 02:42 PM

Jim in CT

05-25-2022, 03:01 PM

wdmso

05-25-2022, 05:07 PM

what would the background check have shown in this case? cause to deny him a gun?

Chicago has tough gun laws. How’s that working out?

i’m not saying we do nothing.
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Jim all guns in Chicago start out as legal guns.

Access and quantity are the big issues and the next are weapon types

Why does only the United States have this gun violence problem?

There is a reason and Mental heath isn’t that reason
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detbuch

05-25-2022, 05:12 PM

Nobody believes (or at least I don’t) no mass shootings happen elsewhere, but it really is unique to the US in terms of the numbers, we are well over 200 deaths for the year. Way too many guns and way to easy for anyone to get their hands on one. Both sides of the isle really need to figure this out or this disconnected society will continue to kill our own children.

Do you have a number above which guns are the problem and below which guns are not the problem?

detbuch

05-25-2022, 05:41 PM

Why does only the United States have this gun violence problem?

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According to Newsweek, "In 2018, the homicide rate in Mexico hit a record high of 35,964, spiking 12 percent from the year before, according to the country's National Institute of Statistics and Geography. Of those murders, at least 20,005 were carried out with guns." And the murders continued to rise at the time this article was written.

The numbers are similar or worse in other countries south of our border. And much worse in parts of Africa.

Are all those numbers, which are way worse than in the U.S., a result of the weapons (mostly guns)?

With 393 million guns owned by U.S. citizens, you'd think that those guns would be killing a way lot more people than they do.

Maybe most of the guns don't want to kill anybody?

We should outlaw the guns that want to kill people.

Jim in CT

05-25-2022, 06:17 PM

Jim all guns in Chicago start out as legal guns.

Access and quantity are the big issues and the next are weapon types

Why does only the United States have this gun violence problem?

There is a reason and Mental heath isn’t that reason
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i agree access and quantity are a big issue. i agree 100%.

what do we do about it? i honestly don’t know. we can’t confiscate hundreds of millions of guns. literally hundreds of millions. which makes
me wonder what gun laws will
do.

i don’t know why you can’t concede that mental health is part of it. i guess because the dnc hasn’t ordered you to believe it.

we’re a free country of 330 million people. there’s a very small number of very sick
folks, and a ton of guns.
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wdmso

05-25-2022, 06:29 PM

i agree access and quantity are a big issue. i agree 100%.

what do we do about it? i honestly don’t know. we can’t confiscate hundreds of millions of guns. literally hundreds of millions. which makes
me wonder what gun laws will
do.

i don’t know why you can’t concede that mental health is part of it. i guess because the dnc hasn’t ordered you to believe it.

we’re a free country of 330 million people. there’s a very small number of very sick
folks, and a ton of guns.
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Any one who kills children has MH issues that’s obvious and not up to debate

Please don’t go down the confiscate nonsense the right loves to preach

But when an 18 year old buys 2 ARs and 350 rounds over 3 days and there’s no red flag or waiting period in Texas .. these are basic laws needed

But In the state of Texas, a mandatory 24-hour waiting period is required for all abortions. The waiting period begins at your in-office consultation and ultrasound visit. A mandatory ultrasound is also required by law under

Texas Priorities are clear
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JohnR

05-25-2022, 08:52 PM

In 2008 Justice Antonin Scalia introduced another interpretation that gun proponents seize on to argue against gun control. He wrote the Supreme Court decision that individuals have the right to own firearms. But Scalia also stated, “Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited.” He approved of “laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.”
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There can be some qualifications, but the default should be shall issue unless there is a reason not to.

Only gun dealers with a Federal Firearms License are required to do a background check before selling a gun in Texas, not private sellers. Texas has NO state requirement for more comprehensive background checks when purchasing a firearm. Therefore, persons prohibited from owning firearms can easily obtain a gun - on the internet, at a gun show, even from a private seller out of the trunk of a car.
In states like Texas with no state-required background check, research has shown that 57% of private gun sales were done with no background check.
Around 80% of all firearms acquired for criminal purposes are obtained through transfers from unlicensed sellers. Including the purchase of his firearm by the Odessa/Midland mass shooter.
Texans overwhelmingly (79%) support universal background checks.

But it’s a mental health problem
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It's a Mental Health AND a Culture Problem.

what would the background check have shown in this case? cause to deny him a gun?

Chicago has tough gun laws. How’s that working out?

i’m not saying we do nothing.
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Doesn't work in Chicago.

RI did one thing sensible, they recently changed it to the town where you live runs the background check, not the town where the shop is.

Jim all guns in Chicago start out as legal guns.

Access and quantity are the big issues and the next are weapon types

Why does only the United States have this gun violence problem?

There is a reason and Mental heath isn’t that reason
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Lots of stolen guns in Chicago but it is NEVER the criminal's fault.

detbuch

05-25-2022, 10:16 PM

detbuch

05-25-2022, 11:28 PM

There can be some qualifications, but the default should be shall issue unless there is a reason not to.

If there can be a reason to, and the 2A does not clearly spell out the reasons, then the reason will be left up to those in government power and on the SCOTUS to spell out and enforce.

If the reason for voiding the protection provided by the 2A is left up to government, then the Amendment is not an unalienable right.

It's a Mental Health AND a Culture Problem.

I agree. The more nihilistic our culture becomes, the less life has meaning or value--and the more that destruction of life will be an attraction, an amusement, a source of power, to those who see or feel no, for lack of a better word, no sacredness, no concrete foundation, no reliable, predictable, believable reality or truth. Where all is relative, even your body can be shaped or transformed into ways that defy that which connected you to some semblance of reality. So the power you had as an individual in a structured society with coherent beliefs and customs becomes essentially frivolous. The excitement of succeeding in a prescribed society becomes a joke. Any accomplishment within the joke has fleeting value or purpose as it can be voided of meaning or importance with waves of new superficial attractions. The only believable reality is the power to participate in the joke in whichever way you choose. And the most significant thing, maybe the only significant thing you can do, the most powerful thing you can do, is just blow the whole joke up. And thus being something of actual importance to those meaningless people around you. And, for the moment, they can recognize that you are the most important thing in their existence

Lots of stolen guns in Chicago but it is NEVER the criminal's fault.

It's only their fault if they're a white supremacist.

wdmso

05-26-2022, 04:01 AM

There can be some qualifications, but the default should be shall issue unless there is a reason not to.

It's a Mental Health AND a Culture Problem.

Doesn't work in Chicago.

RI did one thing sensible, they recently changed it to the town where you live runs the background check, not the town where the shop is.

Lots of stolen guns in Chicago but it is NEVER the criminal's fault.

It’s always the criminals fault

It’s never a criminals fault is just a conservatives 2a talking point

And I agree Mental Health AND a Culture Problem. Plus an a availability problem

In Texas you need to be 21 for a hand gun but 18 for any long rifle

The majority of responsible gun owners want better gun control but for some reason Republicans ignore those poll?

Have as many guns as you like they should all be registered. And have a purchase history or come with a title

Only 11 States Require Gun Owners to Report Stolen Weapons to Police

California
Connecticut
Delaware
District of Columbia
Illinois
Maryland (handguns and assault weapons only)
Massachusetts
Michigan (thefts only)
New Jersey
New York
Ohio
Rhode Island An DC

This 11 could be more this was dated 2017. But I doubt it

researchers at Harvard and Northeastern universities estimated that as many as 380,000 weapons are lost or stolen each

More children died by guns than car crashes in 2020, for the first time in decades

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/guns-now-kill-more-children-and-young-adults-than-car-crashes/

Clearly this study can’t blame it all on just mental health.

People who shoot up schools or serial killers yes Mental heath is a huge factor in their crimes I don’t think that’s debatable but some how the weapons the use isn’t debatable for many on the right as even a factor in their crimes?
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Jim in CT

05-26-2022, 05:15 AM

There can be some qualifications, but the default should be shall issue unless there is a reason not to.

It's a Mental Health AND a Culture Problem.

Doesn't work in Chicago.

RI did one thing sensible, they recently changed it to the town where you live runs the background check, not the town where the shop is.

Lots of stolen guns in Chicago but it is NEVER the criminal's fault.

no, it sure isn’t working in chicago.

We all need to get better at admitting what works, and expand in that. And admitting what doesn’t work, and either adjusting or doing away with what doesn’t work.

What Guiliani did in NY with gun violence not only worked, it was practically a miracle. But a lot of people won’t admit that, because they don’t like the party he’s in and that he likes Trump.

At the same time, some conservatives need to admit the 2a isn’t limitless. James Madison who wrote it, later banned firearms on campus at the university of VA when he was school president. Which means the guy who wrote it,,meant for the right to be limited. But again ,,if there are 400 million guns already out there, we need to concede that future gun control can at best have a limited impact because we aren’t confiscating them

We all need to set ideology aside, and just look at results honestly. It’s not hard.

and we need to admit that the constitution might be in the way of some things we’d like to do, and that’s ok.
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Got Stripers

05-26-2022, 05:56 AM

It's only their fault if they're a white supremacist.

Stupid statement by you both, so what no criminals go to trial, it’s the standard right dodge “guns don’t kill people”. Take all the assault rifles out of the picture since they became available and what is the reduction of the death rates and how many children are able to grow up.

Jim in CT

05-26-2022, 07:20 AM

Stupid statement by you both, so what no criminals go to trial, it’s the standard right dodge “guns don’t kill people”. Take all the assault rifles out of the picture since they became available and what is the reduction of the death rates and how many children are able to grow up.

I agree that weapons that look like the AR-15 are disproportionately used in mass shootings. I'm convinced the look of those rifles fuels the fantasies of some very sick folks. But we tried an assault weapons ban, it didn't work. They let it lapse. Doesn't mean it wouldn't have some benefit today, but how do you get rid of the ones already out there?

JohnR

05-26-2022, 07:31 AM

The majority of responsible gun owners want better gun control but for some reason Republicans ignore those poll?

I'm going to pull this one quote because this is really where things distill from.

First and foremost, eff off for your statement that insinuates that only the firearm owners that agree with your requirements are responsible. Way to bridge the divide. But your statement there is just a mini version of the left's overall approach; marginalize and demonize the right.

A lot of Republicans want better gun control, but they do not want what the left brings. I'm willing to work for better legislation that would actually make a difference but no matter what goals or concession the right is willing to work on, it will never be enough as the left will want more and consume more. Want to know what would have worked here? A proper and well regulated Red Flag law. Why can't we have a Red Flag law that keeps firearms out of the hands of people that should not have them while respecting the rights of the significant majority of people?

The left wants no guns and the major effort made is to take the guns out of the hands of law abiding people. The left wants a UNIFYING topic they can rally support around to make Republicans Bad People, regardless of the facts on the ground. The left spends BILLIONS of dollars per year to get "assault rifles" banned for the 300-400 per year killed by them and you don't hear a fcking peep about the 15000 murders in America's cities every year. Gun homicides increased in cities by THIRTY-SEVEN PERCENT in 2020 over 2019. Over Fifty percent of gun deaths are suicide, 45 percent are violent crime. Of that violent crime, a tiny amount are these "Mass Shootings". It is still too much, and most instances of those Mass Shootings are mental health.

The left moves the needle with "Common Sense" Gun reform. Everything from the Left is "Common Sense" and it is stated enough by politicians and a compliant and willing media, they believe it. But it entirely misses the problem, mental health.

I will not accept the lefts targeting of Legal Gun owners rather than targeting the people likely to commit the crime. We could work on that but we don't because the Left doesn't want that, they want to break those that don't agree with them.

So, no, I will give in to your demands. I will not accept your "common sense" and more kids are going to die because we can't work together because YOUR side demands changes that won't resolve anything at the problem level while directly impacting the rights of those that are not the problem.

Stupid statement by you both, so what no criminals go to trial, it’s the standard right dodge “guns don’t kill people”. Take all the assault rifles out of the picture since they became available and what is the reduction of the death rates and how many children are able to grow up.

Take "assault weapons" out of the picture and 2020's 46,000 gun deaths comes way down to about 45,700.

So, no, "assault weapons", the major target of the dems and, cough, Common Sense Gun Laws people, cough, is responsible for much less than 1% of annual gun deaths.

Jim in CT

05-26-2022, 07:46 AM

I'm going to pull this one quote because this is really where things distill from.

First and foremost, eff off for your statement that insinuates that only the firearm owners that agree with your requirements are responsible. Way to bridge the divide. But your statement there is just a mini version of the left's overall approach; marginalize and demonize the right.

A lot of Republicans want better gun control, but they do not want what the left brings. I'm willing to work for better legislation that would actually make a difference but no matter what goals or concession the right is willing to work on, it will never be enough as the left will want more and consume more. Want to know what would have worked here? A proper and well regulated Red Flag law. Why can't we have a Red Flag law that keeps firearms out of the hands of people that should not have them while respecting the rights of the significant majority of people?

The left wants no guns and the major effort made is to take the guns out of the hands of law abiding people. The left wants a UNIFYING topic they can rally support around to make Republicans Bad People, regardless of the facts on the ground. The left spends BILLIONS of dollars per year to get "assault rifles" banned for the 300-400 per year killed by them and you don't hear a fcking peep about the 15000 murders in America's cities every year. Gun homicides increased in cities by THIRTY-SEVEN PERCENT in 2020 over 2019. Over Fifty percent of gun deaths are suicide, 45 percent are violent crime. Of that violent crime, a tiny amount are these "Mass Shootings". It is still too much, and most instances of those Mass Shootings are mental health.

The left moves the needle with "Common Sense" Gun reform. Everything from the Left is "Common Sense" and it is stated enough by politicians and a compliant and willing media, they believe it. But it entirely misses the problem, mental health.

I will not accept the lefts targeting of Legal Gun owners rather than targeting the people likely to commit the crime. We could work on that but we don't because the Left doesn't want that, they want to break those that don't agree with them.

So, no, I will give in to your demands. I will not accept your "common sense" and more kids are going to die because we can't work together because YOUR side demands changes that won't resolve anything at the problem level while directly impacting the rights of those that are not the problem.

Take "assault weapons" out of the picture and 2020's 46,000 gun deaths comes way down to about 45,700.

So, no, "assault weapons", the major target of the dems and, cough, Common Sense Gun Laws people, cough, is responsible for much less than 1% of annual gun deaths.

Red flag laws MIGHT have stopped Sandy Hook. That poor kid was well known as being horribly broken. But it's also very easy to see red flag laws abused, where certain people would spend all day calling the cops, telling them that everyone they don't like, is too dangerous to own a gun. Very ripe for abuse.

Very, very tough.

"you don't hear a fcking peep about the 15000 murders in America's cities every year."

This is exactly true, and it's irrefutable proof that this isn't about saving lives, it's about demonizing the other side to win elections. If you actually want to save lives, you'd immediately implement stop and frisk in every single big city. We know that worked. We san see what New York looked like before, during, and after. But ideology is what matters here, not results.

You never get this worked up. Tough times. And getting worse.

Got Stripers

05-26-2022, 07:56 AM

I'm going to pull this one quote because this is really where things distill from.

First and foremost, eff off for your statement that insinuates that only the firearm owners that agree with your requirements are responsible. Way to bridge the divide. But your statement there is just a mini version of the left's overall approach; marginalize and demonize the right.

A lot of Republicans want better gun control, but they do not want what the left brings. I'm willing to work for better legislation that would actually make a difference but no matter what goals or concession the right is willing to work on, it will never be enough as the left will want more and consume more. Want to know what would have worked here? A proper and well regulated Red Flag law. Why can't we have a Red Flag law that keeps firearms out of the hands of people that should not have them while respecting the rights of the significant majority of people?

The left wants no guns and the major effort made is to take the guns out of the hands of law abiding people. The left wants a UNIFYING topic they can rally support around to make Republicans Bad People, regardless of the facts on the ground. The left spends BILLIONS of dollars per year to get "assault rifles" banned for the 300-400 per year killed by them and you don't hear a fcking peep about the 15000 murders in America's cities every year. Gun homicides increased in cities by THIRTY-SEVEN PERCENT in 2020 over 2019. Over Fifty percent of gun deaths are suicide, 45 percent are violent crime. Of that violent crime, a tiny amount are these "Mass Shootings". It is still too much, and most instances of those Mass Shootings are mental health.

The left moves the needle with "Common Sense" Gun reform. Everything from the Left is "Common Sense" and it is stated enough by politicians and a compliant and willing media, they believe it. But it entirely misses the problem, mental health.

I will not accept the lefts targeting of Legal Gun owners rather than targeting the people likely to commit the crime. We could work on that but we don't because the Left doesn't want that, they want to break those that don't agree with them.

So, no, I will give in to your demands. I will not accept your "common sense" and more kids are going to die because we can't work together because YOUR side demands changes that won't resolve anything at the problem level while directly impacting the rights of those that are not the problem.

Take "assault weapons" out of the picture and 2020's 46,000 gun deaths comes way down to about 45,700.

So, no, "assault weapons", the major target of the dems and, cough, Common Sense Gun Laws people, cough, is responsible for much less than 1% of annual gun deaths.

Do the math on mass shootings only, I'm betting it's a different picture and you just keep putting ignorant statements up one after the other. The "left wants no guns", so no left gun owners, no left hunters, no left owners of guns to protect their homes, what a crock John.

JohnR

05-26-2022, 08:02 AM

Do the math on mass shootings only, I'm betting it's a different picture and you just keep putting ignorant statements up one after the other. The "left wants no guns", so no left gun owners, no left hunters, no left owners of guns to protect their homes, what a crock John.

Not a crock, Bob. Receipts Bob, I bring receipts. The difference between me and you on this topic is that I have at least done some homework and you are reacting to the feels.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/

JohnR

05-26-2022, 08:06 AM

Red flag laws MIGHT have stopped Sandy Hook. That poor kid was well known as being horribly broken. But it's also very easy to see red flag laws abused, where certain people would spend all day calling the cops, telling them that everyone they don't like, is too dangerous to own a gun. Very ripe for abuse.

A Red Flag law that has serious provisions to protect people's individual rights - current ones don't - and are written to mitigate bad faith manipulation - yeh, I can get behind those.

Jim in CT

05-26-2022, 08:29 AM

A Red Flag law that has serious provisions to protect people's individual rights - current ones don't - and are written to mitigate bad faith manipulation - yeh, I can get behind those.

agreed. THATS common sense.

and institute stop and frisk to address garden variety city gun violence.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

JohnR

05-26-2022, 08:31 AM

agreed. THATS common sense.

and institute stop and frisk to address garden variety city gun violence.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I am mixed on Stop and Frisk because THAT has impacts on the person's rights. There needs to be Just Cause, yada yada yada, to search someone by Gov officals.

wdmso

05-26-2022, 10:18 AM

Pete F.

05-26-2022, 10:21 AM

Here’s a start

https://www.theiacp.org/sites/default/files/2019-05/IACP%20Firearms%20Position%20Paper_2018%20(1).pdf
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JohnR

05-26-2022, 10:24 AM

eff off for your statement that insinuates that only the firearm owners that agree with your requirements are responsible.

Now your hearing things ..

The public is getting sick and tired of the 2a crowd and their my way or the highway mentally.. so you have a choice participate in crafting gun laws or Keep ignoring the problem sooner or the later the public is going to fix the problem. And all gun owners won’t like the results…
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I chose to participate in gun laws, I will support gun laws that are properly crafted and focus on the problems, not the boogeymen brought out. As I stated this morning:

A Red Flag law that has serious provisions to protect people's individual rights - current ones don't - and are written to mitigate bad faith manipulation - yeh, I can get behind those.

And THIS ^^^^ might have prevented 2 days ago, Parkland, Newtown, Buffalo, and half a dozen others.

Pete F.

05-26-2022, 11:24 AM

Pete F.

05-26-2022, 11:44 AM

An important thing to understand is that most people who have murdered large numbers of human beings were not mentally ill in any way
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Jim in CT

05-26-2022, 01:12 PM

A bunch of police officers standing outside the school, while the shooting is going on, parents pleading for them to go in, pretty much demolishes the argument about the good guy with a gun saving anyone.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

So the inability of police to reduce crime to 0, means there's no argument to support the existence of the police?

You do this a lot, to shoot down right wing ideas, you point out that those suggestions aren't guaranteed to be flawless. Can you name many liberal policies which you support, which we can't find a specific case showing them to be imperfect?

I notice you never hold liberal suggestions to the same standard, liberal suggestions don't need to be prefect. "Good" is good enough for liberal ideas, but conservative ideas are "demolished" if they are imperfect in any way.

PaulS

05-26-2022, 01:14 PM

and institute stop and frisk to address garden variety city gun violence.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

In 2012, the NYPD made more than 532,000 stops, each of which could progress to a frisk or to a full search. The police found guns only 715 times. In other words, guns were found during 0.1 percent of stops.

PaulS

05-26-2022, 01:29 PM

I think Herschel Walker wants to expand MH funding and do some other things. If anyone needs a job maybe they can apply to "look at young men that's looking at women, that's looking at their social media?"

We need to get into what happened to him, why, by putting money in mental health. Have people thought about that?" Walker said, referring to the 18-year-old alleged shooter in Uvalde, Texas. "We've gotta get back into prayer. People thinking now praying is bad. No, it's not bad. We need to pray for things like that. We need to continue to go out and fight, continue to take your constitutional rights away, and I think we can't do that."

Fox & Friends" co-host Brian Kilmeade asked Walker where he stands on gun control measures such as universal background checks or raising the age to buy assault weapons from 18 to 21.

"Well, you know, it's always been an issue, because as I said earlier on, they wanna score political points . People see that it's a person wielding that weapon, you know, Cain killed Abel," Walker said. "And that's the problem that we have. And I said, what we need to do is look into how we can stop those things.

"You talk about doing a disinformation," Walker continued, "what about getting a department that can look at young men that's looking at women, that's looking at their social media? What about doing that, looking into things like that, and we can stop that that way?"

Walker also mentioned "putting money into other departments rather than the department that's wanting to take away your rights," but did not specify any agency.

Jim in CT

05-26-2022, 01:29 PM

In 2012, the NYPD made more than 532,000 stops, each of which could progress to a frisk or to a full search. The police found guns only 715 times. In other words, guns were found during 0.1 percent of stops.

If the cops weren't doing anything else at that specific time, removing 715 illegally carried guns in one year, seems like a worthwhile use of time. Until the bad guys start wearing signs that announce their intentions, unfortunately we need to cast the net pretty wide. What's a more efficient way to get illegal guns of the street? Ask criminals to pretty please turn themselves in? Chicago and DC in recent past had very tough restrictions on gun ownership, did that help gun crime more than the things Rudy did?

Put stop and frisk, specifically, aside. Did murder rates drop meaningfully during Rudy's tenure Paul? Did he do a great job with violent crime? In the 5-6 years begore Rudy was sworn in, NYC had about 2500 murders a year. By the time he left, it was under 1,000 a year. Rapes went from 5,000 per year to 3,500. Robberies from over 100,000 per year to under 40,000. Total violent crimes from over 200,000 per year to under 100,000.

Maybe stop and frisk had zero impact. But obviously in aggregate, the things he did, helped. Why in Gods name would we willfully choose to ignore that, because we don't like the party he is affiliated with?

We would all (conservatives included) do well to put ideology aside, focus on results. Look at what has worked, and do more of that. Look at what doesn't work, and stop doing it. Why is that so hard?

https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm

PaulS

05-26-2022, 01:45 PM

If the cops weren't doing anything else at that specific time, removing 715 illegally carried guns in one year, seems like a worthwhile use of time. Until the bad guys start wearing signs that announce their intentions, unfortunately we need to cast the net pretty wide. What's a more efficient way to get illegal guns of the street? Ask criminals to pretty please turn themselves in? Chicago and DC in recent past had very tough restrictions on gun ownership, did that help gun crime more than the things Rudy did?

Put stop and frisk, specifically, aside. Did murder rates drop meaningfully during Rudy's tenure Paul? Did he do a great job with violent crime? In the 5-6 years begore Rudy was sworn in, NYC had about 2500 murders a year. By the time he left, it was under 1,000 a year. Rapes went from 5,000 per year to 3,500. Robberies from over 100,000 per year to under 40,000. Total violent crimes from over 200,000 per year to under 100,000.

Maybe stop and frisk had zero impact. But obviously in aggregate, the things he did, helped. Why in Gods name would we willfully choose to ignore that, because we don't like the party he is affiliated with?

We would all (conservatives included) do well to put ideology aside, focus on results. Look at what has worked, and do more of that. Look at what doesn't work, and stop doing it. Why is that so hard?

https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm

Murder (and all crimes) dropped across the whole US - not only in NY. Rates started to fall before stop and frisk and continued to fall after S&F was stopped. Criminologist argue over the reasons with probably 10 -15 being listed. Some that people agreed on previously have been called into question. One that is lately getting more study is the decrease in lead in gas. There is/was no smoking gun that is an answer.

PaulS

05-26-2022, 02:10 PM

https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm

FYI - Rudy was mayor from 1994 to 2001. It looks like most crimes started to go down a few year before he became mayor and continued to decrease after Rudy.

Jim in CT

05-26-2022, 02:23 PM

FYI - Rudy was mayor from 1994 to 2001. It looks like most crimes started to go down a few year before he became mayor and continued to decrease after Rudy.

When you say "it looks like", what were you looking at? You got data that shows that NYC's crime drop didn't stick out?

I googled that question, saw this article.

University of California isn't known as a right-wing school last time I checked. Yet a law professor there said NYC's crime drop under Rudy "one of the most remarkable stories in the history of urban crime".

https://www.city-journal.org/html/how-new-york-became-safe-full-story-13197.html

Here is another article. From the article:

"During the 1990s, crime rates in New York City dropped dramatically, even more than in the United States as a whole. Violent crime declined by more than 56 percent in the City, compared to about 28 percent in the nation as whole."

Meaning, NYC saw a drop that was exactly double the nationwide average.

During the 1990s, crime rates in New York City dropped dramatically, even more than in the United States as a whole. Violent crime declined by more than 56 percent in the City, compared to about 28 percent in the nation as whole.

But Rudy was a Republican, and even worse, a Trump ally. He can't have done anything good.

PaulS

05-26-2022, 02:42 PM

When you say "it looks like", what were you looking at? I looked at the chart you linked. You got data that shows that NYC's crime drop didn't stick out?

I googled that question, saw this article.

University of California isn't known as a right-wing school last time I checked. Yet a law professor there said NYC's crime drop under Rudy "one of the most remarkable stories in the history of urban crime".

https://www.city-journal.org/html/how-new-york-became-safe-full-story-13197.html

Here is another article. From the article:

"During the 1990s, crime rates in New York City dropped dramatically, even more than in the United States as a whole. Violent crime declined by more than 56 percent in the City, compared to about 28 percent in the nation as whole."

Meaning, NYC saw a drop that was exactly double the nationwide average.

During the 1990s, crime rates in New York City dropped dramatically, even more than in the United States as a whole. Violent crime declined by more than 56 percent in the City, compared to about 28 percent in the nation as whole.

But Rudy was a Republican, and even worse, a Trump ally. He can't have done anything good.

The crime rates (according to the chart YOU linked) started to decline BEFORE Rudy was Mayor and continued AFTER Rudy was no longer Mayor.

So it has nothing to do with Rudy being a Republican or "even worse" a Trump ally.

Jim in CT

05-26-2022, 03:04 PM

The crime rates (according to the chart YOU linked) started to decline BEFORE Rudy was Mayor and continued AFTER Rudy was no longer Mayor.

So it has nothing to do with Rudy being a Republican or "even worse" a Trump ally.

if his policies were left in place after he left office ( which i think? they largely were by Bloomberg), why wouldn’t the improvement continue?

he’s a republican, we get it, he can’t have good ideas

Paul, what’s happening with crime in chicago? is it all republicans committing the murders?
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PaulS

05-26-2022, 03:13 PM

if his policies were left in place after he left office ( which i think? they largely were by Bloomberg), why wouldn’t the improvement continue?

he’s a republican, we get it, he can’t have good ideasso you were just proved wrong in that stop and frisk wasn't the only answer so you come back with the tired "all Repub. bad" response.

Paul, what’s happening with crime in chicago? is it all republicans committing the murders?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I have no idea who is committing all the murders in Chicago other than they are bad people and that the majority of guns used in crimes come from other states. Is it Dems? and how do you know how they voted in the last election?

Jim in CT

05-26-2022, 03:18 PM

The crime rates (according to the chart YOU linked) started to decline BEFORE Rudy was Mayor and continued AFTER Rudy was no longer Mayor.

So it has nothing to do with Rudy being a Republican or "even worse" a Trump ally.

OK, Like you said, I looked at my data, compared the decrease in murder and total violent crime from 1993 (last year before Rudy) to 2001 (Rudy's last year), for NYC and the whole country.

For murders over that time, NYC saw a 60% drop (from 2,420 to 960) while the US saw a 35% drop (from 24,530 to 16,037).

For total violent crime, NYC saw a 50% drop (from 195,352 to 98,022). The US saw a drop of 25% (from 1,926,020 to 1,439,480).

Why did NYC see better decreases than the rest of the country? The difference is even more stark, because the US numbers include NYC. If you were to exclude the NYC numbers from the nationwide numbers, NYC would look even better than "US excluding NYC".

So why did NYC see vastly more improvement?

JohnR

05-26-2022, 03:20 PM

A bunch of police officers standing outside the school, while the shooting is going on, parents pleading for them to go in, pretty much demolishes the argument about the good guy with a gun saving anyone.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

A bunch of police officers did not go into the school after him, and stopped parents from going in. So good guys with guns did not stop that until, from what I understand, an off duty Border Patrol officer went in and killed the murderer, getting shot in the process. So a good guy with a gun DID end it after other marginally not good guys with guns (and body armor and rifles) held the parents back.

An important thing to understand is that most people who have murdered large numbers of human beings were not mentally ill in any way
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Large numbers like Stalin and Hitler? Or like Lanza, Ramos, Holmes, and Cruz?

I have no idea who is committing all the murders in Chicago other than they are bad people and that the majority of guns used in crimes come from other states. Is it Dems? and how do you know how they voted in the last election?

They are almost certainly not Republicans because there are so few remaining in the city to pick from.

Jim in CT

05-26-2022, 03:21 PM

I have no idea who is committing all the murders in Chicago other than they are bad people and that the majority of guns used in crimes come from other states. Is it Dems? and how do you know how they voted in the last election?

The fact that gun crime is high in Chicago in part because of guns from elsewhere, is exactly why additional gun control laws aren't likely to work, unless you have a way of confiscating the 400 million that are out there, which isn't even worth discussing. Those guns are out there, and they aren't going away, and they are the reason why additional gun control isn't the silver bullet that the left says it is.

We need more than gun control. Way more.

Jim in CT

05-26-2022, 03:25 PM

Large numbers like Stalin and Hitler? Or like Lanza, Ramos, Holmes, and Cruz?

.

He's saying most mass shooters had no mental issues, not sure about that.

How many had two loving, dedicated parents who spent quality time with them? Same question of people who murder others in garden variety gun crime...

Culture is a big contributor.

Covid-related isolation will make it all worse, and that will be manifesting itself for another 20 years. Super.

PaulS

05-26-2022, 03:39 PM

OK, Like you said, I looked at my data, compared the decrease in murder and total violent crime from 1993 (last year before Rudy) to 2001 (Rudy's last year), for NYC and the whole country.

For murders over that time, NYC saw a 60% drop (from 2,420 to 960) while the US saw a 35% drop (from 24,530 to 16,037).

For total violent crime, NYC saw a 50% drop (from 195,352 to 98,022). The US saw a drop of 25% (from 1,926,020 to 1,439,480).

Why did NYC see better decreases than the rest of the country? The difference is even more stark, because the US numbers include NYC. If you were to exclude the NYC numbers from the nationwide numbers, NYC would look even better than "US excluding NYC".

So why did NYC see vastly more improvement?

Compstat
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

PaulS

05-26-2022, 03:41 PM

The fact that gun crime is high in Chicago in part because of guns from elsewhere, is exactly why additional gun control laws aren't likely to work, unless you have a way of confiscating the 400 million that are out there, which isn't even worth discussing. Those guns are out there, and they aren't going away, and they are the reason why additional gun control isn't the silver bullet that the left says it is.

We need more than gun control. Way more.

Right no one is saying you should be confiscating all the guns out there. But there is a gun highway coming from other States like Indiana and Mississippi that lead directly to Chicago. Stop that and you take away much of the guns that are used in crimes in Chicago.
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Got Stripers

05-26-2022, 04:14 PM

Copied this list from a friend. Personally I have no idea the list of school shootings is this long since the late 90s. Yes I looked up some of them to make sure not fabricated. Only mass shootings made the news. Majority were personally targeted. The facts and statistics really not important here. I do agree guns don’t kill people, people kill people. I also support the 2nd amendment if interpreted correctly. I do have problem with the gun laws not being uniformed across the country. Many argues about California yet most guns are purchased out of state. Similar to us M#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&s buying fireworks in New Hampshire. My point is that us responsible gun owners have no issues waiting a few days for background check. While this is not going to end gun violence but it may reduce the guns on the streets and some potential tragedies.

Thurston High School.
Columbine High School.
Heritage High School.
Deming Middle School.
Fort Gibson Middle School.
Buell Elementary School.
Lake Worth Middle School.
University of Arkansas.
Junipero Serra High School.
Santana High School.
Bishop Neumann High School.
Pacific Lutheran University.
Granite Hills High School.
Lew Wallace High School.
Martin Luther King, Jr. High School.
Appalachian School of Law.
Washington High School.
Conception Abbey.
Benjamin Tasker Middle School.
University of Arizona.
Lincoln High School.
John McDonogh High School.
Red Lion Area Junior High School.
Case Western Reserve University.
Rocori High School.
Ballou High School.
Randallstown High School.
Bowen High School.
Red Lake Senior High School.
Harlan Community Academy High School.
Campbell County High School.
Milwee Middle School.
Roseburg High School.
Pine Middle School.
Essex Elementary School.
Duquesne University.
Platte Canyon High School.
Weston High School.
West Nickel Mines School.
Joplin Memorial Middle School.
Henry Foss High School.
Compton Centennial High School.
Virginia Tech.
Success Tech Academy.
Miami Carol City Senior High School.
Hamilton High School.
Louisiana Technical College.
Mitchell High School.
E.O. Green Junior High School.
Northern Illinois University.
Lakota Middle School.
Knoxville Central High School.
Willoughby South High School.
Henry Ford High School.
University of Central Arkansas.
Dillard High School.
Dunbar High School.
Hampton University.
Harvard College.
Larose-Cut Off Middle School.
International Studies Academy.
Skyline College.
Discovery Middle School.
University of Alabama.
DeKalb School.
Deer Creek Middle School.
Ohio State University.
Mumford High School.
University of Texas.
Kelly Elementary School.
Marinette High School.
Aurora Central High School.
Millard South High School.
Martinsville West Middle School.
Worthing High School.
Millard South High School.
Highlands Intermediate School.
Cape Fear High School.
Chardon High School.
Episcopal School of Jacksonville.
Oikos University.
Hamilton High School.
Perry Hall School.
Normal Community High School.
University of South Alabama.
Banner Academy South.
University of Southern California.
Sandy Hook Elementary School.
Apostolic Revival Center Christian School.
Taft Union High School.
Osborn High School.
Stevens Institute of Business and Arts.
Hazard Community and Technical College.
Chicago State University.
Lone Star College-North.
Cesar Chavez High School.
Price Middle School.
University of Central Florida.
New River Community College.
Grambling State University.
Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
Ossie Ware Mitchell Middle School.
Ronald E. McNair Discovery Academy.
North Panola High School.
Carver High School.
Agape Christian Academy.
Sparks Middle School.
North Carolina A&T State University.
Stephenson High School.
Brashear High School.
West Orange High School.
Arapahoe High School.
Edison High School.
Liberty Technology Magnet High School.
Hillhouse High School.
Berrendo Middle School.
Purdue University.
South Carolina State University.
Los Angeles Valley College.
Charles F. Brush High School.
University of Southern California.
Georgia Regents University.
Academy of Knowledge Preschool.
Benjamin Banneker High School.
D. H. Conley High School.
East English Village Preparatory Academy.
Paine College.
Georgia Gwinnett College.
John F. Kennedy High School.
Seattle Pacific University.
Reynolds High School.
Indiana State University.
Albemarle High School.
Fern Creek Traditional High School.
Langston Hughes High School.
Marysville Pilchuck High School.
Florida State University.
Miami Carol City High School.
Rogers State University.
Rosemary Anderson High School.
Wisconsin Lutheran High School.
Frederick High School.
Tenaya Middle School.
Bethune-Cookman University.
Pershing Elementary School.
Wayne Community College.
J.B. Martin Middle School.
Southwestern Classical Academy.
Savannah State University.
Harrisburg High School.
Umpqua Community College.
Northern Arizona University.
Texas Southern University.
Tennessee State University.
Winston-Salem State University.
Mojave High School.
Lawrence Central High School.
Franklin High School.
Muskegon Heights High School.
Independence High School.
Madison High School.
Antigo High School.
University of California-Los Angeles.
Jeremiah Burke High School.
Alpine High School.
Townville Elementary School.
Vigor High School.
Linden McKinley STEM Academy.
June Jordan High School for Equity.
Union Middle School.
Mueller Park Junior High School.
West Liberty-Salem High School.
University of Washington.
King City High School.
North Park Elementary School.
North Lake College.
Freeman High School.
Mattoon High School.
Rancho Tehama Elementary School.
Aztec High School.
Wake Forest University.
Italy High School.
NET Charter High School.
Marshall County High School.
Sal Castro Middle School.
Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School
Great Mills High School
Central Michigan University
Huffman High School
Frederick Douglass High School
Forest High School
Highland High School
Dixon High School
Santa Fe High School
Noblesville West Middle School
University of North Carolina Charlotte
STEM School Highlands Ranch
Edgewood High School
Palm Beach Central High School
Providence Career & Technical Academy
Fairley High School (school bus)
Canyon Springs High School
Dennis Intermediate School
Florida International University
Central Elementary School
Cascade Middle School
Davidson High School
Prairie View A & M University
Altascocita High School
Central Academy of Excellence
Cleveland High School
Robert E. Lee High School
Cheyenne South High School
Grambling State University
Blountsville Elementary School
Holmes County, Mississippi (school bus)
Prescott High School
College of the Mainland
Wynbrooke Elementary School
UNC Charlotte
Riverview Florida (school bus)
Second Chance High School
Carman-Ainsworth High School
Williwaw Elementary School
Monroe Clark Middle School
Central Catholic High School
Jeanette High School
Eastern Hills High School
DeAnza High School
Ridgway High School
Reginald F. Lewis High School
Saugus High School
Pleasantville High School
Waukesha South High School
Oshkosh High School
Catholic Academy of New Haven
Bellaire High School
North Crowley High School
McAuliffe Elementary School
South Oak Cliff High School
Texas A&M University-Commerce
Sonora High School
Western Illinois University
Oxford High School
Robb Elementary School

JohnR

05-26-2022, 04:56 PM

Not a crock, Bob. Receipts Bob, I bring receipts. The difference between me and you on this topic is that I have at least done some homework and you are reacting to the feels.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/

Still waiting for a response here Bob.

Right no one is saying you should be confiscating all the guns out there. But there is a gun highway coming from other States like Indiana and Mississippi that lead directly to Chicago. Stop that and you take away much of the guns that are used in crimes in Chicago.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Indianna & Mississippi require dealers adhere to Federal to do a background check before firearms purchases. They do not have the best state laws.

My point is that us responsible gun owners have no issues waiting a few days for background check. While this is not going to end gun violence but it may reduce the guns on the streets and some potential tragedies.

I am a bit of a 1A and 2A absolutest but I am amenable for certain background checks, waiting periods, and some training requirements for certain things. But I am not compromising when the other side won't. I will not bend the knee.

PaulS

05-26-2022, 05:03 PM

Is the husband who had a heart attack and died shortly after visiting the memorial to his wife who was a teacher and was killed considered a victim also?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Jim in CT

05-26-2022, 05:30 PM

Is the husband who had a heart attack and died shortly after visiting the memorial to his wife who was a teacher and was killed considered a victim also?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

heartbreaking.
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nightfighter

05-26-2022, 06:49 PM

Well we MUST be able to come up with something better than what we are "living" with... And beyond time to take the Republican/Democrat out of the discussion. Mass has the strictest I think I read. It is a starting point. Waiting periods at a minimum. Licensing. Meet face to face with somebody, not a Zoom. Background check with cross references to mental health records/prescriptions?

BUT we need to spend some money on the mental health system. NOW! I know of a 14 or 15 year old girl who sits on a cot, in a hospital corridor, for four weeks now, because there are no beds to deal with her depression! That just isn't acceptable. While we obligingly send $Billions to Ukraine (and rightfully so) should there not be an investment made in mental health and our own veterans while the money is flowing????

Jim in CT

05-27-2022, 05:18 AM

after all the school shootings, how and why was there an unlocked door?

i taught at a school in a fairly poor town. Yet every single outside door had censors on them, if any of them
was ever unlocked, an alarm
immediately went off in the office, telling them which door was unlocked

Many parts of this issue are almost impossible to deal with - almost half a billion guns are out there already, evil is out there, and serious mental illness is out there. These are very difficult things to address.

Locking a door is not hard.

And the police appear to have a TON of explaining to do.

What a complete institutional/functional breakdown.
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Jim in CT

05-27-2022, 05:49 AM

Right no one is saying you should be confiscating all the guns out there. But there is a gun highway coming from other States like Indiana and Mississippi that lead directly to Chicago. Stop that and you take away much of the guns that are used in crimes in Chicago.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Paul you said, correctly, that strict gun laws in chicago don’t do anything, because there’s a sea of guns out there.

Every city is exactly like chicago in that regard. we’re all surrounded by guns, and we can’t do anything about it.

You’re saying, stop the gun highway and you’ve solved the problem? if you built a wall around chicago today, you’re saying that would solve gun crime there? there aren’t millions of guns in chicago already?

If there weren’t any guns currently out there, gun control laws could
make a huge difference. But there are, so they won’t.

I’m not saying we don’t change gun laws where it makes sense, but we need to recognize that does absolutely nothing to address the 400 million guns that are currently out there, and whose hands they are in.

The way to make real widespread change, is to change culture and hearts. That’s extremely difficult, and we’re moving in the exact opposite direction. I don’t like saying it, but i am convinced it’s true, one party is completely invested in moving our culture in the exact wrong direction.

We’re a huge, free country that’s up to our eyeballs in guns. The more we move away from old fashioned values, the more of these there will be.

These things don’t happen with this frequency, in the 1950s, but guns were still common. I’d like to have a national discussion about why the culture then, was so much less prone to this violence.

Family, connecting with others in a real way, faith, empathy, humanity. Understanding that not every human impulse is something to celebrate.

Paul, we don’t like each other much. But you could have 10 machine guns in your home, and i know my kids wouldn’t be in any danger around you. I know it.

it’s not just the guns. it’s not just assault rifles. This kid walked into a school unchallenged,,and was allowed to do whatever he wanted for an hour. he could have pulled this off with a cub scout knife.

Guns are part of the problem, no question. But if we could get more of us to see others the way you see them ( as human beings), that would
also be a huge help.

and it looks like we’ve done nothing to make schools
much safer since Columbine. I don’t know why or how that could be

I’m seeing reports that he shot his gun randomly for ten minutes outside the school, before he entered. How could an external door be unlocked during ten minutes of shooting just outside?

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Got Stripers

05-27-2022, 06:14 AM

Disturbing the new timeline, WTF is wrong with the police who thought holding parents back was the priority.

JohnR

05-27-2022, 06:31 AM

Disturbing the new timeline, WTF is wrong with the police who thought holding parents back was the priority.

Yes. This is going to be worse than Parkland in regards to the ineptitude of the police and maybe the FBI.

The police in Uvalde were armed far higher than the police at Parkland, many with body armor and rifles. They may have gotten some kids out, including their own, while the gunman was in the building - waiting for confirmation on that.

The FIB reportedly had a tip that this kid said he was going to shoot up a school.

The school may have had a lock system, but it was not in play.

wdmso

05-27-2022, 06:55 AM

Mass shootings are so common that mayors now have a checklist for when one happens

I think the public honestly doesn't see Gun Law as the Cure for the Gun violence epidemic in America ..But they want more of an effort to stop it. But they see One Party! and if we're being honest ONE party who is willing to do Nothing :faga: and just make excuses

the Party of No has a track record of :faga:

they do it with Climate change (its cyclictic not a real issue )

they do it with green energy ( it will never replace oil no suggested it will in the near term)

they did it with Covid (it's just the flu)

they did it Masks (Its my freedom)

But this same party has no issues changing voting laws based on a Lie week after the election!

And banning abortion or requiring a waiting period for Them All for their small % primary voters ?

Many Americans not just liberals are tired of the the rights willingness to do Nothing. to solve the problem..

So some interesting stats on the Gun culture in the US

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/06/22/guns-and-daily-life-identity-experiences-activities-and-involvement/

Jim in CT

05-27-2022, 07:51 AM

Only gun dealers with a Federal Firearms License are required to do a background check before selling a gun in Texas, not private sellers. Texas has NO state requirement for more comprehensive background checks when purchasing a firearm. Therefore, persons prohibited from owning firearms can easily obtain a gun - on the internet, at a gun show, even from a private seller out of the trunk of a car.
In states like Texas with no state-required background check, research has shown that 57% of private gun sales were done with no background check.
Around 80% of all firearms acquired for criminal purposes are obtained through transfers from unlicensed sellers. Including the purchase of his firearm by the Odessa/Midland mass shooter.
Texans overwhelmingly (79%) support universal background checks.

But it’s a mental health problem
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

have you ever once said a democrat idea was wrong or a republican idea had any merit? ever?

democrats run the federal
government . what have they done last two years to stop these things? please specify.

democrats run chicago, which has strict anti gun laws? how is that working out?

you are not persuadable by results. ideology is all that matters.

if it’s not a mental health issue, why didn’t these things happen in the 1950s with this frequency? we’re guns invented in the 1990s?

almost everything you say is destroyed by historical facts.

all those crazy things you say the gop stands for, yet people are leaving blue states for red ones, and the gop is poised to do great in november. why is that?

this week, senate republicans proposed a school safety bill. senate democrats killed it. so stop saying the gop does nothing. you’re lying.

the 2 sides have different ideas, and neither side is willing to compromise, and you are a perfect example of that ideology-driven stupidity.
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Jim in CT

05-27-2022, 07:57 AM

Yes. This is going to be worse than Parkland in regards to the ineptitude of the police and maybe the FBI.

The police in Uvalde were armed far higher than the police at Parkland, many with body armor and rifles. They may have gotten some kids out, including their own, while the gunman was in the building - waiting for confirmation on that.

The FIB reportedly had a tip that this kid said he was going to shoot up a school.

The school may have had a lock system, but it was not in play.

how can there be a school that doesn’t have a kick system for christ’s sake?

i saw a report that an offf duty cop was getting a haircut. his wife and daughter were in the school. the wife texted him. he grabbed a shotgun from the barbers office ( it’s TX after all), went to the school, got his daughter out, got a bunch of other kids out, and apparently helped coordinate with CBP as they were entering.

i also hears a mom broke past police and got into the school somehow, and got her two kids out. the wall street journal reported that.

it’s hard to process it all. also hearing that some cops who appeared to be standing there doing nothing had actually been shot already. Lots more to learn.

Lock the god damn doors.
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wdmso

05-27-2022, 08:27 AM

have you ever once said a democrat idea was wrong or a republican idea had any merit? ever?

democrats run the federal
government . what have they done last two years to stop these things? please specify.

democrats run chicago, which has strict anti gun laws? how is that working out?

you are not persuadable by results. ideology is all that matters.

if it’s not a mental health issue, why didn’t these things happen in the 1950s with this frequency? we’re guns invented in the 1990s?

almost everything you say is destroyed by historical facts.

all those crazy things you say the gop stands for, yet people are leaving blue states for red ones, and the gop is poised to do great in november. why is that?

this week, senate republicans proposed a school safety bill. senate democrats killed it. so stop saying the gop does nothing. you’re lying.

the 2 sides have different ideas, and neither side is willing to compromise, and you are a perfect example of that ideology-driven stupidity.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

More than 100 TV ads from Republican candidates and conservative-aligned groups showed guns or used guns as a talking point this year,

Pull your head from the Sand

the GOP unwillingness to try to prevent these Crimes is the actual issue ..

And chicago has a Gang and Gun Issue .. but get back to me when there intent is shooting and killing children Wholesale ..

How And Why Chicago Violence Became Conservatives' Favorite Talking Point

and clearly yours

For a certain segment of conservative politicians and pundits—far from all, to be sure—pointing out what is often referred to as “black-on-black crime” in Chicago has become the preferred shorthand for castigating ineffectual liberalism, reinforcing racial wedges and feigning a concern for crime victims—even when their voting records paint a different picture of their priorities.

https://chicagoist.com/2016/08/29/how_and_why_chicago_violence_became.php

Jim in CT

05-27-2022, 08:36 AM

Jim in CT

05-27-2022, 08:42 AM

More than 100 TV ads from Republican candidates and conservative-aligned groups showed guns or used guns as a talking point this year,

Pull your head from the Sand

the GOP unwillingness to try to prevent these Crimes is the actual issue ..

And chicago has a Gang and Gun Issue .. but get back to me when there intent is shooting and killing children Wholesale ..

How And Why Chicago Violence Became Conservatives' Favorite Talking Point

and clearly yours

For a certain segment of conservative politicians and pundits—far from all, to be sure—pointing out what is often referred to as “black-on-black crime” in Chicago has become the preferred shorthand for castigating ineffectual liberalism, reinforcing racial wedges and feigning a concern for crime victims—even when their voting records paint a different picture of their priorities.

https://chicagoist.com/2016/08/29/how_and_why_chicago_violence_became.php

chicago style violence claims way more lives than these mass shootings. John had the numbers

Your side ignores that, because it’s not a politically winning issue for them.

I’m not distorting anything. your side is. they spend all their energy on mass shootings because they think it helps them win elections.

They never talk about the much larger scale problem, because it makes their side look incompetent. Which, unfortunately for you, they are.

CT has had pure un checked
liberalism for decades. Sandy Hook happened here. Was that somehow the fault of republicans, who control nothing here in CT?

again, i’m reacting to actual results. You’re only reacting to what helps your ideology. Even now.
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RIROCKHOUND

05-27-2022, 09:12 AM

Pete F.

05-27-2022, 09:15 AM

We have trained every school shooter for years in what the schools do to stop them.
Usually lockdown drills are 4x a year, so an 18 year old boy has been trained 48x
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Jim in CT

05-27-2022, 09:51 AM

Too much emotion on both sides and not wading through the thread, so this is likely one and done... This one hits close to the bone with a 3rd and 6th grader. Plus I am staying out of here in protest of ScottW fishing the keys for a month straight....

If I were the Dem in the senate, I would put up a clean bill with some of the topics presented here (background, waiting, etc). Get everyone on the record on each of these issues rather than a more convoluted bill trying to do everything.

I would recommend a book called 'Gunfight' by Ryan Busse. Interesting perspective (former gun company executive) on the cultural change in the last decade or so, particularly on the marketing of body armor/tactical gear/AR-type weapons etc. to couch commandos.. He has a Ted talk out there as well.

i don’t think it can be denied that the look of the ar-15 fuels
the fantasies of a small number of very, very sick folks. that has to be part of this. but if we ban them going forward, given how many are out there, does it do anything? or do we confiscate the ones that are out there?

we had a nationwide assault weapons ban. they let it lapse, because it didn’t do anything. but that was before the rise of these couch commando mass killings, maybe it would have more of an impact now, on those?
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JohnR

05-27-2022, 11:19 AM

Mass shootings are so common that mayors now have a checklist for when one happens

Mayors have a checklist (Incident Response Plan) for a bunch of different things, well usually the EMA Director does or the PD Chief / FD Chief depending on purview. That have it for weather, shootings, IT issues, contageous outbreaks (pre-COIVD), and 99 other topics.

how can there be a school that doesn’t have a kick system for christ’s sake?

i saw a report that an offf duty cop was getting a haircut. his wife and daughter were in the school. the wife texted him. he grabbed a shotgun from the barbers office ( it’s TX after all), went to the school, got his daughter out, got a bunch of other kids out, and apparently helped coordinate with CBP as they were entering.

i also hears a mom broke past police and got into the school somehow, and got her two kids out. the wall street journal reported that.

it’s hard to process it all. also hearing that some cops who appeared to be standing there doing nothing had actually been shot already. Lots more to learn.

Lock the god damn doors.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I have seen some bad things, but as usual, first and second reports often wrong. Let's see what shakes out.

I would recommend a book called 'Gunfight' by Ryan Busse. Interesting perspective (former gun company executive) on the cultural change in the last decade or so, particularly on the marketing of body armor/tactical gear/AR-type weapons etc. to couch commandos.. He has a Ted talk out there as well.

I recommend people consider that if anything has proven true over the past 10-15 years is that government is increasingly failing in protecting people, both parties, from security to Baby Formula, to your rights. The trend of our country and the world in general has become more turbulent, dangerous, and divided. There has been ZERO evidence to indicate this trend is going to reverse. The Games Have Yet To Begin.

So with all of the great jobs done by all the "experts", seems kinda foolish to turn all of your security over to them.

Pete F.

05-27-2022, 01:06 PM

If laws don't stop bad people from getting guns then WHY DID HE WAIT UNTIL THE LITERAL DAY IT WAS LEGAL TO BUY ONE?
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JohnR

05-27-2022, 02:32 PM

For the same reason people wait until 21 to use their real ID to buy a beer. And like most laws, people get drunk in bars before 21.

Got Stripers

05-27-2022, 03:11 PM

if the democrats want to solve this and have the right ideas, why haven’t biden and the democrats in congress passed those solutions? Who’s stopping them? They run the show. Do you not get that?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Because laws die at Mitches feet and two democrats will not work to eliminate the filibuster.
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spence

05-27-2022, 03:52 PM

Can someone explain to me why so few people die in this country from fully automatic weapons? I'll wait.

wdmso

05-27-2022, 04:10 PM

Mayors have a checklist (Incident Response Plan) for a bunch of different things, well usually the EMA Director does or the PD Chief / FD Chief depending on purview. That have it for weather, shootings, IT issues, contageous outbreaks (pre-COIVD), and 99 other topics.

But that's not really the Point, I am we aware of disorder management plans or (Incident Response Plan) for a bunch of different things

it's the reason they need the plan to start with .. that should be the concern ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ska0nG8U_Jc

from this school has guns stashed for teachers 2017

wdmso

05-27-2022, 04:18 PM

Can someone explain to me why so few people die in this country from fully automatic weapons? I'll wait.

I'll take a crack at it you need Federal Firearms License

And

As a private citizen (without an FFL) you can only buy an old machine gun (over 35 years old), it’ll likely cost north of $15,000, and you’ll have to wait around a year for the transfer via an ATF Form 4.

Raider Ronnie

05-27-2022, 05:19 PM

As information has been coming out this whole thing sounds fishy.
The kid has a $70K for truck (18 years old)
Owns 2 ARs ($5k)
Body armor, tons of ammunition
WHERE DOES AN 18 year old get this kind of $$$ ?
Supposedly the grandmother worked at the school.
Door unlocked where he entered.

Then they have the police in full body armor standing around for an hr+ doing bothering but hold back kids parents while kids being shot up.

They can talk all they want about gun laws but nothing is ever going to change. It’s big business.
I’m all for gun rights & ownership & have my LYC as do my sons but unlike more gun advocates I say gun laws should be universal federally.
Makes no sense some states are almost impossible to own legally but you can go to another state, walk into Walmart and buy any gun.

wdmso

05-28-2022, 07:02 AM

Jim in CT

05-28-2022, 09:08 AM

Where are Ron desantis comments on Texas shooting ?

I bet if it happened at Disney or by a Trans man in a women's bathroom he would have a lot to say

some will see it as political brilliance

I see it for what it is political cowardice.. and kowtowing to the far right . Who he thinks will bring him the next president nominee
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

what, exactly, is political
cowardice wayne? what does desantis have to do with the immediate aftermath of this?

ANY excuse to bash those with whom you disagree. Pathetic. You have no idea what he has said or not said, but you know it’s wrong.
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Jim in CT

05-28-2022, 09:11 AM

Can someone explain to me why so few people die in this country from fully automatic weapons? I'll wait.

there aren’t 400 million of them already out there

your statement is correct, and is also apples And oranges.

i agree there are too many out there. But they’re out there. And they seriously erode any potential
benefit of prospective gun laws, don’t they?
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JohnR

05-28-2022, 09:43 AM

Because laws die at Mitches feet and two democrats will not work to eliminate the filibuster.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Thank god - what a #^&#^&#^&#^&ing disaster we'll have when bad bills - from both parties - can be passed with less resistance.

I was wrong, I though this crew here was smarter than this - even when we disagree.

Can someone explain to me why so few people die in this country from fully automatic weapons? I'll wait.

I really can't because of the very small amount of 300-400 people that die each year from rifles, they don't break out the automatic rifles from that number. I do know however, that the number of those that die from hammers every year is greater.

I'll take a crack at it you need Federal Firearms License

And

As a private citizen (without an FFL) you can only buy an old machine gun (over 35 years old), it’ll likely cost north of $15,000, and you’ll have to wait around a year for the transfer via an ATF Form 4.

AND pay The TAX

Jim in CT

05-28-2022, 10:06 AM

Because laws die at Mitches feet and two democrats will not work to eliminate the filibuster.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

which now did dems try to pass that mitch killed, which would have prevented this?

after this shooting, senate republicans proposed some
kind of school
safety bill that senate democrats killed. Funny that you didn’t complain about that.

And i agree with you that the gop is too stubborn on gums. Maybe we should have stricter purchase reuirements for the ar-15, tougher background checks or red flag laws? again, there are so many out there that such a law might not do much, but maybe it helps. little. maybe raise the age to 21.

But i don’t see the left doing anything except making political speeches, either

We have to be able to talk about what has been tried already, and whether or not it worked. We need to be able to talk honestly about what works and what doesn’t. Neither side can do that. We elect too many jerks on both sides.

But we need to be able to say out loud, that due to the fact that there are more guns out there right now than people living in the country, prospective gun laws aren’t the only aspect of this. There’s a lot more to it.

You almost never hear democrats discuss anything other than gun control, because that’s the aspect of this that polling shows is a political winner for them. Same with the right and opposing gun control.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Pete F.

05-28-2022, 10:46 AM

There have been 27 school shootings already this year. Firearms are the number one cause of death for kids in this country.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

wdmso

05-28-2022, 12:05 PM

what, exactly, is political
cowardice wayne? what does desantis have to do with the immediate aftermath of this?

ANY excuse to bash those with whom you disagree. Pathetic. You have no idea what he has said or not said, but you know it’s wrong.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

He has said nothing Jim some leader!
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Jim in CT

05-28-2022, 02:43 PM

He has said nothing Jim some leader!
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i haven’t seen that CT governor Lamont said anything either.
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wdmso

05-28-2022, 03:15 PM

i haven’t seen that CT governor Lamont said anything either.
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Is he trying Hard to be the next POTUS ... Like Ron is

Jim in CT

05-28-2022, 03:48 PM

Is he trying Hard to be the next POTUS ... Like Ron is

if Desantis said anything, you’d call him a pro-gun monster. when he says nothing, he’s a coward.

doesn’t matter what he does, it’s wrong. WE GET IT.
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Pete F.

05-29-2022, 04:59 AM

Pete F.

05-29-2022, 05:46 AM

if Desantis said anything, you’d call him a pro-gun monster. when he says nothing, he’s a coward.

doesn’t matter what he does, it’s wrong. WE GET IT.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

How about a running list of GOP causes of gun violence:

- doors
- evil
- wokeness
- lack of home schooling
- video games
- low church attendance
- secularism
- mental health
- unarmed teachers
- cultural decline

What else?

I presume George Soros is also somehow responsible.
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Jim in CT

05-29-2022, 07:37 AM

The NRA spent $1.8 million in 2018 to elect Ron DeSantis and Rick Scott.

Ron DeSantis has vowed to sign a “constitutional carry” into law in Florida, allowing people to carry guns in public, either visibly or concealed, virtually anywhere, at any time, without training, registration or government licensing.

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

in this case, the deranged killer was in a room full of little kids for almost an hour. He could have killed them all with a pocket knife.

i’m not a big gun guy. But how much good will prospective gun laws be, when there are 400 million guns already out there? we know what happens when places like chicago and DC ban guns. it doesn’t help much.

So gun control is one part of this, but there are many other aspects which the left refuses to discuss, because they aren’t political winners for them,,just as gun control
is something the right avoids.

erosion of families, bullying in school ( which teachers tolerate even though they know exactly who’s doing it), erosion of faith, entertainment industry committed to desensitizing kids to graphic violence, mental health issues, americans getting less connected to each other, spending WAY too much time alone online.

It all feeds this. Neither side will admit to it all.

how many kids become killers, who are from a home ( regardless of income) with 2 parents who are dedicated to their kids and who make it very clear that they love those kids? homes where everyone eats supper together and talks to each other instead of staring at screens all day?

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wdmso

05-29-2022, 08:17 AM

if Desantis said anything, you’d call him a pro-gun monster. when he says nothing, he’s a coward.

doesn’t matter what he does, it’s wrong. WE GET IT.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

A leader who wish to be POTUS speak . And Ron doesn’t have an issue speaking on any topic or passing any law that excites his base

Yet 20 American children murdered
And he keeps his mouth shut..

That’s not leadership

https://floridaphoenix.com/2022/05/26/gov-desantis-silence-on-texas-school-murders-fits-a-pattern-his-critics-contend/

Gov. Ron DeSantis has not shied away from commenting on national and international controversies. China, Venezuela, our southern border — he’ll opine at great length and ferocity.

About the mass murder this week in Uvalde, Texas — where an 18-year-old shot to death 19 small kids and two teachers — he has uttered not a peep beyond ordering flags at state and local facilities flown at half staff — and it was President Joe Biden’s proclamation.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Pete F.

05-29-2022, 09:11 AM

in this case, the deranged killer was in a room full of little kids for almost an hour. He could have killed them all with a pocket knife.

i’m not a big gun guy. But how much good will prospective gun laws be, when there are 400 million guns already out there? we know what happens when places like chicago and DC ban guns. it doesn’t help much.

So gun control is one part of this, but there are many other aspects which the left refuses to discuss, because they aren’t political winners for them,,just as gun control
is something the right avoids.

erosion of families, bullying in school ( which teachers tolerate even though they know exactly who’s doing it), erosion of faith, entertainment industry committed to desensitizing kids to graphic violence, mental health issues, americans getting less connected to each other, spending WAY too much time alone online.

It all feeds this. Neither side will admit to it all.

how many kids become killers, who are from a home ( regardless of income) with 2 parents who are dedicated to their kids and who make it very clear that they love those kids? homes where everyone eats supper together and talks to each other instead of staring at screens all day?

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Last week the killer was in a building with one door and this week the cops were so scared of his weapon that they stood in the hall.
Chicago is over a bridge from a state with far looser gun laws and there’s plenty of states with higher gun deaths per capita than Illinois.

AR type firearms went from 400,000 in this country in 2004 when the assault rifle ban, that you claim did nothing, ended to 20 million today.

The US has 393 million guns in circulation (46% of all guns) or 121 firearms for every 100 residents.

Please explain how the remaining 7.4 billion people on the planet can live "FREE" with roughly the same number of guns. Aside from mass shootings, what other freedoms do we get?
I know you’ll miss the sarcasm
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Jim in CT

05-29-2022, 12:00 PM

A leader who wish to be POTUS speak . And Ron doesn’t have an issue speaking on any topic or passing any law that excites his base

Yet 20 American children murdered
And he keeps his mouth shut..

That’s not leadership

https://floridaphoenix.com/2022/05/26/gov-desantis-silence-on-texas-school-murders-fits-a-pattern-his-critics-contend/

Gov. Ron DeSantis has not shied away from commenting on national and international controversies. China, Venezuela, our southern border — he’ll opine at great length and ferocity.

About the mass murder this week in Uvalde, Texas — where an 18-year-old shot to death 19 small kids and two teachers — he has uttered not a peep beyond ordering flags at state and local facilities flown at half staff — and it was President Joe Biden’s proclamation.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

i don’t equate leadership with using the deaths of kids to engage in political demagoguery.

you know what he’s going to say, and you’re going to say he’s wrong.

we get it.
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Jim in CT

05-29-2022, 12:04 PM

Last week the killer was in a building with one door and this week the cops were so scared of his weapon that they stood in the hall.
Chicago is over a bridge from a state with far looser gun laws and there’s plenty of states with higher gun deaths per capita than Illinois.

AR type firearms went from 400,000 in this country in 2004 when the assault rifle ban, that you claim did nothing, ended to 20 million today.

The US has 393 million guns in circulation (46% of all guns) or 121 firearms for every 100 residents.

Please explain how the remaining 7.4 billion people on the planet can live "FREE" with roughly the same number of guns. Aside from mass shootings, what other freedoms do we get?
I know you’ll miss the sarcasm
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pete those countries do t have more guns than people. we do. your facts are correct. and they are precisely why prospective gun laws won’t do
much

All you have to do, is look at places that enacted very strict gun laws, and see what the effects were.

the cops weren’t afraid as a group. you’re lying. you’re muting about this massacre if
kids, to attempt to win a political
argument.

The commander incorrectly decided it was not an active shooter, and followed the barricaded entrant protocol.

If you have evidence that cops stayed out because they were ll o sated, let’s see it.

if you don’t, then shame on you .
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JohnR

05-29-2022, 06:59 PM

It's interesting, take out the cities here and europe and compare and that stats are pretty much the same rate.

But according to Pete, Republicans are the problem.

Pete F.

05-30-2022, 05:31 AM

pete those countries do t have more guns than people. we do. your facts are correct. and they are precisely why prospective gun laws won’t do
much

All you have to do, is look at places that enacted very strict gun laws, and see what the effects were.

the cops weren’t afraid as a group. you’re lying. you’re muting about this massacre if
kids, to attempt to win a political
argument.

The commander incorrectly decided it was not an active shooter, and followed the barricaded entrant protocol.

If you have evidence that cops stayed out because they were ll o sated, let’s see it.

if you don’t, then shame on you .
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You always believe the party line.

Change is not impossible and there’s no simple magic law, it’s going to be a long hard slog to get us out of the place we are in with all the play soldiers.

We are seeing lots of changes to the story given by officers, as they coordinate their stories.
Take every one with a grain of salt. ANY statement from police departments that uses the passive voice ("projectile impact responsible for death of man near officer-involved incident") is an attempt to hide something, if not an outright lie, and media often publish them verbatim.

Every department has training that acknowledges danger. This does not mean there is an obligation to take risks.

A common instruction around precincts is "better to be judged by twelve than carried by six."

Which is to say, a cop should murder someone before taking risks.
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Jim in CT

05-30-2022, 05:43 AM

You always believe the party line.

Change is not impossible and there’s no simple magic law, it’s going to be a long hard slog to get us out of the place we are in with all the play soldiers.

We are seeing lots of changes to the story given by officers, as they coordinate their stories.
Take every one with a grain of salt. ANY statement from police departments that uses the passive voice ("projectile impact responsible for death of man near officer-involved incident") is an attempt to hide something, if not an outright lie, and media often publish them verbatim.

Every department has training that acknowledges danger. This does not mean there is an obligation to take risks.

A common instruction around precincts is "better to be judged by twelve than carried by six."

Which is to say, a cop should murder someone before taking risks.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

so it’s a party line, and not objective fact, to say strict gun laws havent done much to reduce violence in DC and Chicago?

Change is not impossible. But it will
take more than new gun control
laws.
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Pete F.

05-30-2022, 05:46 AM

A fraud on the American public.” That’s how former Chief Justice Warren Burger described the idea that the Second Amendment gives an unfettered individual right to a gun. When he spoke these words to PBS in 1990, the rock-ribbed conservative appointed by Richard Nixon was expressing the longtime consensus of historians and judges across the political spectrum.

Twenty-five years later, Burger’s view seems as quaint as a powdered wig. Not only is an individual right to a firearm widely accepted, but increasingly states are also passing laws to legalize carrying weapons on streets, in parks, in bars—even in churches.
Many are startled to learn that the U.S. Supreme Court didn’t rule that the Second Amendment guarantees an individual’s right to own a gun until 2008, when District of Columbia v. Heller struck down the capital’s law effectively banning handguns in the home. In fact, every other time the court had ruled previously, it had ruled otherwise. Why such a head-snapping turnaround? Don’t look for answers in dusty law books or the arcane reaches of theory.

So how does legal change happen in America? We’ve seen some remarkably successful drives in recent years—think of the push for marriage equality, or to undo campaign finance laws. Law students might be taught that the court is moved by powerhouse legal arguments or subtle shifts in doctrine. The National Rifle Association’s long crusade to bring its interpretation of the Constitution into the mainstream teaches a different lesson: Constitutional change is the product of public argument and political maneuvering. The pro-gun movement may have started with scholarship, but then it targeted public opinion and shifted the organs of government. By the time the issue reached the Supreme Court, the desired new doctrine fell like a ripe apple from a tree.
The Second Amendment consists of just one sentence: “A well regulated militia, being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” Today, scholars debate its bizarre comma placement, trying to make sense of the various clauses, and politicians routinely declare themselves to be its “strong supporters.” But in the grand sweep of American history, this sentence has never been among the most prominent constitutional provisions. In fact, for two centuries it was largely ignored.

The amendment grew out of the political tumult surrounding the drafting of the Constitution, which was done in secret by a group of mostly young men, many of whom had served together in the Continental Army. Having seen the chaos and mob violence that followed the Revolution, these “Federalists” feared the consequences of a weak central authority. They produced a charter that shifted power—at the time in the hands of the states—to a new national government.

“Anti-Federalists” opposed this new Constitution. The foes worried, among other things, that the new government would establish a “standing army” of professional soldiers and would disarm the 13 state militias, made up of part-time citizen-soldiers and revered as bulwarks against tyranny. These militias were the product of a world of civic duty and governmental compulsion utterly alien to us today. Every white man age 16 to 60 was enrolled. He was actually required to own—and bring—a musket or other military weapon.

On June 8, 1789, James Madison—an ardent Federalist who had won election to Congress only after agreeing to push for changes to the newly ratified Constitution—proposed 17 amendments on topics ranging from the size of congressional districts to legislative pay to the right to religious freedom. One addressed the “well regulated militia” and the right “to keep and bear arms.” We don’t really know what he meant by it. At the time, Americans expected to be able to own guns, a legacy of English common law and rights. But the overwhelming use of the phrase “bear arms” in those days referred to military activities.

There is not a single word about an individual’s right to a gun for self-defense or recreation in Madison’s notes from the Constitutional Convention. Nor was it mentioned, with a few scattered exceptions, in the records of the ratification debates in the states. Nor did the U.S. House of Representatives discuss the topic as it marked up the Bill of Rights. In fact, the original version passed by the House included a conscientious objector provision. “A well regulated militia,” it explained, “composed of the body of the people, being the best security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, but no one religiously scrupulous of bearing arms, shall be compelled to render military service in person.”

Though state militias eventually dissolved, for two centuries we had guns (plenty!) and we had gun laws in towns and states, governing everything from where gunpowder could be stored to who could carry a weapon—and courts overwhelmingly upheld these restrictions. Gun rights and gun control were seen as going hand in hand. Four times between 1876 and 1939, the U.S. Supreme Court declined to rule that the Second Amendment protected individual gun ownership outside the context of a militia. As the Tennessee Supreme Court put it in 1840, “A man in the pursuit of deer, elk, and buffaloes might carry his rifle every day for forty years, and yet it would never be said of him that he had borne arms; much less could it be said that a private citizen bears arms because he has a dirk or pistol concealed under his clothes, or a spear in a cane.”
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Jim in CT

05-30-2022, 05:52 AM

wdmso

05-30-2022, 08:01 AM

i don’t equate leadership with using the deaths of kids to engage in political demagoguery.

you know what he’s going to say, and you’re going to say he’s wrong.

we get it.
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I question if you even understand what is and what’s isn’t good leadership

Owning the libs isn’t leadership neither is silence during a national tragedy

So to criticize those who willingly sit on their hands when it comes to attempting to reduce gun violence. Yet your party is all about making it easier to by a gun than use an absentee ballot. Or more laws to protect the unborn

No one is using the deaths of kids to engage in political demagoguery.

They are just telling the truth
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Jim in CT

05-30-2022, 08:35 AM

I

No one is using the deaths of kids to engage in political demagoguery.

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CT senator Chris Murphy does exactly that every time. Long before we know the details, he’s running his stupid mouth, claiming that the attack is more evidence that he’s right in the issue . he does it every single time, and always before he knows any details.

Beto Oroarke was t demogouging when he interrupted a press conference?
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wdmso

05-30-2022, 09:32 AM

It's interesting, take out the cities here and europe and compare and that stats are pretty much the same rate.

But according to Pete, Republicans are the problem.

The indisputable fact is that where there are more guns, there are more gun deaths.

Availability is a huge issue

Based on the number of gun deaths per capita in 2019 alone, states with the most gun violence are:

Alaska - 24.4
Mississippi - 24.2
Wyoming - 22.3
New Mexico 22.3
Alabama - 22.2
Louisiana - 22.1
Missouri - 20.6
South Carolina - 19.9
Arkansas - 19.3
Montana - 19.3
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wdmso

05-30-2022, 11:01 AM

Former President Donald Trump has called on US lawmakers to prioritise funding for school security over sending military aid to Ukraine.

:faga:

Pete F.

05-30-2022, 11:13 AM

so it’s a party line, and not objective fact, to say strict gun laws havent done much to reduce violence in DC and Chicago?

Change is not impossible. But it will
take more than new gun control
laws.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
How many of the guns used in the commission of crimes were purchased in those places?

So yes, it’s a party line and an objective falsehood that strict gun laws have had no effect.
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Pete F.

05-30-2022, 11:18 AM

Pete, has anyone said the 2A is unlimited or unfettered? Who are you responding to?

Are gun control laws working in Chicago, DC?

Instead of going off on unrelated tangents, why not discuss something right at the heart of this?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Burgers opinion is certainly germane to a discussion about gun control.
It’s illustrative to the fact that the NRA and the arms industry have controlled the discussion for years to the detriment of Americans
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Pete F.

05-30-2022, 11:27 AM

CT senator Chris Murphy does exactly that every time. Long before we know the details, he’s running his stupid mouth, claiming that the attack is more evidence that he’s right in the issue . he does it every single time, and always before he knows any details.

Beto Oroarke was t demogouging when he interrupted a press conference?
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As usual, anyone who maintains a consistent gun control position is wrong and if they don’t they’re flip flopping.
Did you know that after the Columbine school shooting over 10,000 cops were hired to "prevent school shootings"? 43% of schools in the USA have law enforcement officers & none of them have prevented a single school shooting. Instead, they just arrest kids for absurd violations.
Millions have been made selling guns to people who are convinced by the arms lobby rhetoric that buying one makes them safer.
The data unequivocally says that’s false.
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wdmso

05-30-2022, 03:42 PM

Jim in CT

05-30-2022, 04:22 PM

So telling the Truth is demogouging

Only to those who accept the lies
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you didn’t read what i wrote. he concludes it’s due to lack of gun control, long before he knows the details.

how do you address availability? i agree with you availability is a huge problem. I agree with you 100%.

I’m assuming you’d address availability with strict, prospective, gun laws

That doesn’t address the guns that are out there. And it’s precisely why our cities are still war zones, despite having strict gun laws

Do you know what einstein’s definition of “insanity” was, wayne? doing the same thing again and again, and expecting a different result.

How many times does a liberal idea have to fail, before you’d conclude it just doesn’t work?

most people, they see something fail 4 or 5 times, it starts to sink in. not you guys.
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Jim in CT

05-30-2022, 04:27 PM

Former President Donald Trump has called on US lawmakers to prioritise funding for school security over sending military aid to Ukraine.

:faga:

tell me wayne, how many things are more important to americas interests, than protecting our children?

How many things are more important to you, than safeguarding our children? I’m very curious to know how many things are more important to you.

j
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Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Pete F.

05-30-2022, 08:31 PM

Jim in CT

05-31-2022, 05:03 AM

So far Republicans have blamed the shooting in Texas on the following instead of guns
1. FBI
2. CRT
3. Woke mobs
4. Doors that lock
5. Doors that don’t lock
6. Too many doors
7. Lockdowns
8. Cops
9. Not enough cops
10. Video games
11. Teachers
12. Ukraine aid
13. Chicago
14. Guns exist and nothing possibly can be done
15. Not safeguarding children, because Ukraine
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nobody said the ukraine aid prevented us from safeguarding kids.

when the facts dont support your ideology, you lie. you can never, ever admit that liberalism has any flaws. neither can wayne or spence. not once, not ever.

If liberalism is so great, why is CT ( which has been a 40 year experiment in pure liberalism) bankrupt, unbelievably expensive, home to some of the greatest income inequality on the planet, the cities are abject failures,, and people are leaving?
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Pete F.

05-31-2022, 05:22 AM

nobody said the ukraine aid prevented us from safeguarding kids.

when the facts dont support your ideology, you lie. you can never, ever admit that liberalism has any flaws. neither can wayne or spence. not once, not ever.

If liberalism is so great, why is CT ( which has been a 40 year experiment in pure liberalism) bankrupt, unbelievably expensive, home to some of the greatest income inequality on the planet, the cities are abject failures,, and people are leaving?
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Nine out of the ten poorest states are Republican led and 95 out of the 100 poorest counties are also in Red States, but tell me again how Republican policies are great for Americans
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Jim in CT

05-31-2022, 06:56 AM

Nine out of the ten poorest states are Republican led and 95 out of the 100 poorest counties are also in Red States, but tell me again how Republican policies are great for Americans
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

wealthy individuals lean left, poor individuals lean right.

What i asked, and which you dodged, was about CT.

CT is one of the wealthiest states, if you’re talking about the citizens. If you’re talking about the state itself, it’s bankrupt, despite having very high taxes applied to very high incomes. Meaning, we have the liberals who run the state, a ton of money. It didn’t work.

What states are people
moving to in the biggest numbers Pete? Red states or blue states?

Have fun contorting yourself like a gymnast, to avoid answering.

Therebarevolentynofnolaces in red states where I’d never want to live. But there are also places in red states which offer a great quality of life at a cheap price - Charlotte suburbs,,Nashville suburbs, plenty of places in NH where they can’t build $650,000 houses fast enough.

Can you point me to any places in blue states, which offer a high quality of life with very low taxes? Or are all of those places in conservative states?
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wdmso

05-31-2022, 06:59 AM

tell me wayne, how many things are more important to americas interests, than protecting our children?

How many things are more important to you, than safeguarding our children? I’m very curious to know how many things are more important to you.

j
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

how many things are more important to americas interests, than protecting our children?

We’ll for most Americans anything! Would be the answer

But that’s not the GOPs answer is it

Unless it the unborn. Or grooming of children by teachers , or Disney or about transgenders kids

Then the GOP is all over it

20 slaughtered in a class room.

It’s every other reason on the planet. Their too afraid to mention the Weapon.. and be labeled a Rino
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PaulS

05-31-2022, 07:06 AM

Nine out of the ten poorest states are Republican led and 95 out of the 100 poorest counties are also in Red States, but tell me again how Republican policies are great for Americans
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Exactly. I'm sure the states w/higher gun deaths are mostly R states. Look at health and welfare stats also - its not much different.

Pete F.

05-31-2022, 07:22 AM

Now that Jim is concerned about income inequality and defines high quality of life by how you die or how little you pay in taxes and getting shot is good, here's the lowest gun deaths per capita.

California
8.5
3,449
Connecticut
6
219
New York
5.3
1,052
Rhode Island
5.1
54
New Jersey
5
443
Massachusetts
3.7
268
Hawaii
3.4

Jim in CT

05-31-2022, 07:28 AM

how many things are more important to americas interests, than protecting our children?

We’ll for most Americans anything! Would be the answer

But that’s not the GOPs answer is it

Unless it the unborn. Or grooming of children by teachers , or Disney or about transgenders kids

Then the GOP is all over it

20 slaughtered in a class room.

It’s every other reason on the planet. Their too afraid to mention the Weapon.. and be labeled a Rino
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

i’m not afraid to discuss the weapon. but you won’t discuss anything else.
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Jim in CT

05-31-2022, 07:31 AM

Exactly. I'm sure the states w/higher gun deaths are mostly R states. Look at health and welfare stats also - its not much different.

are rich liberals, wealthy because of liberalism? and are poor people, poor because of conservative state government?

The people who live in Ct tend to be very wealthy. But the state itself, is in horrific financial shape. the unfounded debt, I think, is more than $75k for every human being in the state.

When you have astronomical
taxes and also have crushing debt, what does that tell you?

Take a drive through New Haven or Hartford. Are those places a lot better than big cities in red states?
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Jim in CT

05-31-2022, 07:33 AM

how many things are more important to americas interests, than protecting our children?

We’ll for most Americans anything! Would be the answer

But that’s not the GOPs answer is it

Unless it the unborn. Or grooming of children by teachers , or Disney or about transgenders kids

Then the GOP is all over it

20 slaughtered in a class room.

It’s every other reason on the planet. Their too afraid to mention the Weapon.. and be labeled a Rino
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

let’s get to the point. Instead of telling us that the GOP is evil, why not tell us what laws you’d propose, which are practical, constitutional, and which would likely have a meaningful beneficial impact to gun violence?
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PaulS

05-31-2022, 07:35 AM

You're an actuary - Seems like there is a pretty good correlation between the states political leanings and their wealth (All people don't measure things by just the $).

Jim in CT

05-31-2022, 07:40 AM

You're an actuary - Seems like there is a pretty good correlation between the states political leanings and their wealth (All people don't measure things by just the $).

rich people used lean right. in the past few years, that changed. now they lean left.

that doesn’t mean liberalism created that wealth. it’s harder to be wealthy in liberal states Paul. i could
move to NH and put almost $1,000 a month in my pocket, between the lack of income tax and sales tax. $1,000 a month, every month. Know what that adds up to over a few decades?

A ton.

CT is t rich because of liberalism. It’s rich, primarily, because if it’s good fortune to be next door to New York City.

And while you keep talking about the citizens of CT, for some reason you don’t seem to want to discuss the financial status of our state government.
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PaulS

05-31-2022, 07:58 AM

Jim in CT

05-31-2022, 08:14 AM

It's not harder to be rich in liberal states. The stats prove otherwise. You're holding the location of Ct against CT while ignoring the advantages of the location of FL. The CT debt sucks. But people aren't moving to FL. just bc of taxes/policies. The US pop. is getting older so they want to move to warmer place and get out of the snow/cold.

It is not as simple as looking at one metric and ignoring others. Every state has its good/bad.

i just proved it’s harder to be wealthy in CT. living here costs me $1,000 more each month, compared to the cost of living in NH. Hundreds of thousands of dollars over a lifetime. And i have literally nothing to show for that. I get nothing i couldnt get in a nice NH suburb like Hollis or Brookline.

My salary has absolutely nothing to do with the state government of CT. Absolutely nothing. Neither does the salary of the hedge fund managers in New Canaan.

You’re confusing correlation with causation. it’s a common mistake, and a gigantic mistake.

Today’s democratic party platform is attractive to the wealthy. Today’s republican platform is attractive to the working poor. Neither party is causing its fans to be wealthy or poor.

if people are moving for weather, why are they moving to FL and not to southern CA.

You have fun answering that one.
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Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

PaulS

05-31-2022, 08:43 AM

Jim in CT

05-31-2022, 08:59 AM

Somehow it is a lot harder to be wealthy in Conn than those states led by Rs yet the richest states are led by Ds. So who should we believe that stats based on 350M people or what you say?

And if your company was in Ark you would be paid a lot less.

You're looking at only 1 fact of many.

a state with rich residents, is different than a state that has a lot of money and can help its needy citizens.

Again, i used elementary school
arithmetic to show that for folks like me, it’s a lot harder to accumulate wealth in CT than, say, NH. i will pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes that i wouldn’t pay in NH. and nothing to show for it.

CT is a beautiful and expensive place. Therefore, if you’re wealthy, it’s a terrific place to live. So it will attract wealthy people.

You’re again confusing correlation with causation. Most of the country’s grizzly bears live in Alaska, which is a red state. Can i therefore conclude that conservatism is better for grizzly bears than liberalism? or would that be stupid?
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Jim in CT

05-31-2022, 09:00 AM

And if your company was in Ark you would be paid a lot less.

You're looking at only 1 fact of many.

i can move to NH and keep the same salary. same salary, much lower taxes.
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PaulS

05-31-2022, 09:10 AM

Jim in CT

05-31-2022, 09:22 AM

And when my company moved to regional offices in Tx and were looking for people to staff the office they said don't expect the same raises. Goldman Sachs said if you leave NY don't expect a NY salary.

i’m familiar with regional salary adjustments. and at every company i’ve worked at, it was assumed
that the extra money to live in the northeast, was nowhere near enough to compensate you for the higher cost of living.

Everything is more expensive in CT. taxes, car taxes to the town ( which doesn’t exist in many places) has taxes, utility rates, groceries, UCONN, almost every aspect if life is more expensive. the cumulative additional
cost over a lifetime, is astronomical.

And we both know, that as boomers retire and the state is paying those pensions, taxes will go way up. The penalty to live here cannot fail to increase over the next 20 years.

And i have no idea what we get for that money. Our roads stink, our cities stink, UCONN is expensive for a public school.

I work for a huge huge company. Every CT employee could
move to NH and keep the same salary. So how would
i be wrong, if i said it’s harder to accumulate wealth in CT than it would be in NH?
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Jim in CT

05-31-2022, 09:27 AM

It is not as simple as looking at one metric and ignoring others. Every state has its good/bad.

when you’re asking whether or not liberalism makes it harder to accumulate wealth over a lifetime, taxes is an obvious metric. The state government controls its tax rates

Do you admit that over 50 years, you’d pay a ton more in taxes if you lived in CT, compared to living in a Boston suburb in NH?

And maybe you need to look at other factors. Fine. Please tell me what factors make CT look cheaper than NH? What factors offset the higher taxes in CT?

if UCONN was free, you’d have a point. It ain’t.

If we had no gas taxes, you’d have a point. But we do.

All i can think of is tolls. NH had tolls and we don’t. But we have insane gas taxes.
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Jim in CT

05-31-2022, 09:55 AM

Funny thing, it was only a few years ago that most wealthy people leaned right. And liberals used that fact (and it was indeed a fact) to say that the GOP only cared about the wealthy, and that the democrats were the party of the little guy.

Today, most wealthy people lean left. and all of a sudden, democrats don't think it's bad to be the party of the rich. Now, the lefties here claim it's a bad sign that the GOP is the party of the working stiff.

Whatever fits the narrative.

Pete F.

05-31-2022, 10:10 AM

Jim's been listening to Faux again, where he's heard Rafael Cruz complain about the liberalization of the coastal elites............

Cruz is a graduate of Princeton and Yale, a lawyer, a senator, the multimillionaire husband of a Goldman Sachs executive, who sends his kids to an exclusive school, but sure, let’s listen to him on ‘elites’!

And whether it's Cruz, Stefanik, Hawley, John Kennedy, or any of the countless other GOP privileged elites pretending they aren't, it's clear being a shameless, lying, opportunist willing to do and say anything is mandatory for success in the GOP. Principles are a liability.

PaulS

05-31-2022, 10:35 AM

Jim in CT

05-31-2022, 10:46 AM

your only about taxes or wealth and totally ignore every other stat which show states run by Rs are in a worse position. other than taxes the R states are near the bottom in most quality of life stats, maternal mortality, low wages, low levels of mental health access, high incarceration rate, healthcare, infrastucture.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/worst-states-to-live-in

Even Fox business ranks D states better.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/best-worst-us-states-live-2021-report

"your only about taxes"

You said CT doesn't make it harder to accumulate wealth. I pointed out the fact that our taxes are much higher than average. I believe that makes it harder to accumulate wealth. You apparently disagree, you say it's not that simple, yet you won't say what the CT state government does, which makes it easier to accumulate wealth?

Please list the things that our state government does (not things that some citizens do, but things that the democrats in Hartford enacted) which make it easier for CT residents to accumulate wealth?

Just because a state has a large number of rich/poor people, doesn't mean the state government had an efefct on those people being rich or poor.

Are you saying the town government of Greenwich helped its citizens get rich? Or did they create a place where rich people want to live? Those are two very very different things.

So the GOP is responsible for red states that aren't nice. But liberalism has nothing to do with the plight in Chicago, or how expensive CT is, or anything else bad that happens in blue places.

Paul, there are places in NH where I'd never want to live. But there are also places in NH (as well as NC and SC) where I would want to live, places with a great quality of life and super low taxes.

Can you point me to any places in the country that are in blue states, which have a high quality of life, and super low taxes? Or are all such places in red states?

PaulS

05-31-2022, 10:55 AM

Jim in CT

05-31-2022, 11:50 AM

Greenwich has some of the best schools in the country and the more right leaning ones have the worse schools in the state. Those places that have high qualities of life and super low taxes are the most liberal area in the conservative states. So as I've said numerous times in not as simple as you make it. Many of those people in NH who are prospering live in So. NH and work in Mass.

There is a pretty damn good correlation between the wealth and a states politics.

"Greenwich has some of the best schools in the country "

And is that because of the democrats in Hartford? Or is it because they literally have more money than they know what to do with, and because the riff raff can't afford to live there? And if it's because of the money, WHAT DID THE STATE DEMOCRATS DO, to enable those residents to get rich?

I taught. 90% of success/failure in public schools, is determined at home.

Ang again, if people re moving for weather, why not to southern CA?

Jim in CT

05-31-2022, 11:53 AM

Those places that have high qualities of life and super low taxes are the most liberal area in the conservative states. So as I've said numerous times in not as simple as you make it. Many of those people in NH who are prospering live in So. NH and work in Mass.

There is a pretty damn good correlation between the wealth and a states politics.

"Those places that have high qualities of life and super low taxes are the most liberal area in the conservative states."

You saying it, doesn't make it so.

"There is a pretty damn good correlation between the wealth and a states politics"

Yet you refuse to post a single syllable, about what the CT state democrats did, to enable those Greenwich residents to become so successful.

I concede that CT state democrats have done things to make CT an attractive place for multi millionaires to live in. But I don't concede that the state helped those people obtain their wealth, and for as adamant as you say the state did help, you won't specify how.

PaulS

05-31-2022, 12:02 PM

Jim in CT

05-31-2022, 12:29 PM

So I guess it is just randomness that makes the poorest counties mostly in Rs states and the richest counties mostly in D states and mosty the poorest states run by Rs and the richest states mostly run by Ds or should we talk about the outliers like S. NH or Ashville or Brentwood TN?

It might not be a coincidence! Maybe the democratic governments in those places, are creating environments which help make people rich. But you can't point to one single example of that, so pardon me if I'm skeptical. And if that were the case, why haven't the CT state democrats replicated that formula in Bridgeport? Whatever you believe they did, it seems they started at the NY border, and kept moving east until they got to Bridgeport, and then they put a halt to it, apparently.

Why not look at the places that are working (good quality of life, low taxes) and see if we can expand on whatever they may have done? But you don't want to do that, because none of you can bear to admit that the conservative agenda, for all its flaws, has some good ideas too.

My brother moved to Fraklin TN many years ago. Great schools, new roads, super low taxes, it was an up and coming place. Now it's one of the hottest markets in the nation. He sold his house for more than triple what he paid for it 10-12 years ago.

The NH suburbs of Bedford, Hollis, Brookline, Amherst...they literally can't build $600,000 houses fast enough. I don't even know what the political affiliation is of those places, but they're located in a purplish state. Same with the Charlotte NC suburbs. They're not deep red, though I guess the places in SC, like Fort Mill, are.

I say let's expand on what they're doing. You dismiss them as outliers.

PaulS

05-31-2022, 01:01 PM

Got Stripers

05-31-2022, 01:56 PM

How about we regulate like we do cars and trucks, adding we don’t sell Indy race cars to the general public.

Jim in CT

05-31-2022, 01:58 PM

Why do I have to point out one place. look at the country as a whole. The richest states are primarily run Democrats. The poorest states are primarily run by Republicans. The richest counties are primarily in Democratic states. The poorest counties are primarily and Republican states. pretty clear. How about we expand on what the more successful counties or states are doing and raise taxes and provide better benefits like more access to mental health and the better educational system so high tech companies have more incentive to go to them? And you fail to consider that the poorest people are going to go to the biggest cities where they can get the mental health help, access to drug treatment centers and hospitals, public transportation excetera. Instead you try to say that Democratic policies have made those cities poor while failing to understand the population who lives there.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

so the hedge fund managers in Greenwich, we’re successful because CTs high taxes gave them good public services

CT has wealthy residents. The state is beyond bankrupt, and therefore can’t afford to do anything for
anybody. Paul, ask someone who has worked for DCF for 30 years, about all the services that have been cut.

we spend tax dollars to
enrich unions. everyone else falls through the cracks. take a stroll
through Bridgeport some day and tel me about how much better off morbid, thanks to our high taxes.

The state of CT has wealthy residents. The state itself, is circling the drain. Many liberal states are in horrible financial shape. You can’t help anyone, when you’re broke.
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PaulS

05-31-2022, 02:07 PM

Pete F.

05-31-2022, 06:08 PM

House Republicans have introduced the Leaker Accountability Act, making Supreme Court leaks punishable by up to 5 years in prison.

They've not introduced a single bill combatting the epidemic of gun violence and mass shootings.
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Jim in CT

06-01-2022, 07:11 AM

The richest states are primarily run Democrats. The poorest states are primarily run by Republicans. The richest counties are primarily in Democratic states. The poorest counties are primarily and Republican states.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

correction…the states with the wealthiest residents are run by democrats

CT is a state made up of very wealthy individuals. The state itself, is bankrupt, drowning in debt, cutting vital services to the needy to enrich their union masters.

Do you understand the difference between a state government, and the people who live in the state?

TN has no state income tax. Yet they have massive surpluses, so
much so, that tuition at community colleges is free to state residents.

CT has insane income taxes ( and many other taxes that TN doesn’t have), yet we will
never, ever be able to offer such a perk.

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PaulS

06-01-2022, 07:32 AM

and yet the average salary in CT is much higher, there is less crime and a better education system than Tenn.

Pete F.

06-01-2022, 08:01 AM

I thought I heard that CT was broke?

Gov. Ned Lamont disclosed Connecticut’s projected fiscal reserves exceed $7 billion.

Jim in CT

06-01-2022, 08:02 AM

and yet the average salary in CT is much higher, there is less crime and a better education system than Tenn.

better education system, if you can afford it. You always leave that part out.

and to the lousy cities in TN, is that the fault of the state? or the fault of the people who run the cities?

My brother lived in Franklin, which is every bit as nice as, say, Avon CT. Insane public schools, beautiful little town. No income tax. And free tuition at the states community colleges.

So can you please point me to a town in CT, that offers a similar quality of life as Franklin TN, with no state income tax, and free tuition at community colleges?

I’ll wait.

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PaulS

06-01-2022, 08:18 AM

Jim in CT

06-01-2022, 08:34 AM

another interesting fact - GDP per capita.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_GDP

The richest (and best educated) states are primarily run by Democrats. The poorest states are primarily run by Republicans. The richest counties are primarily in Democratic states. The poorest counties are primarily in Republican states.

You keep saying the same thing "blue states have wealthier citizens on average". I keep saying I agree with you, so I have no idea why you keep saying the same ting, I don't know who or what youre responding to.

I've asked you many times what liberalism has done to make those citizens more successful, and you keep responding with "blue states are wealthier."

We both know that means you can't think of a reason why liberalism results in wealth. Because it doesn't. If it did, the state governments of the blue states would be in great shape, and they aren't.

And for the second time, when wealthy americans leaned right, you all said that was a bad thing, a sign of what was wrong with the GOP. Now that wealthy people are liberals, all of a sudden it's a good thing to attract the wealthy.

TN has very poor towns. But the state (meaning the state government) literally has more money than they know what to do with, so they offer free community college tuition.

CT has a ton of very wealthy residents, yet the state can't pay its bills.

Lemme guess your response..."CT is wealthier than TN".

except it's not. The residents of CT are far wealthier than the residents of TN. The state of CT is a lot less wealthy than the state of TN. Despite taking far more money from its citizenry, the state of CT is in far worse shape.

Funny you won't comment on that.

PaulS

06-01-2022, 08:42 AM

PaulS

06-01-2022, 08:50 AM

https://www.forbes.com/sites/wesleywhistle/2020/07/06/free-college-comes-to-connecticut-community-colleges/?sh=6c03851965b9

https://www.ct.edu/PACT?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxOPPl7KM-AIVMMmUCR3lnglxEAAYASAAEgJxvfD_BwE

https://www.wtnh.com/news/connecticut/cscu-announces-new-funding-for-free-community-college-for-fall-2020-semester/

WTNH) — Connecticut State Colleges and Universities announced Thursday that the Board of Regents for Higher Education will again be funding a free community college program for the fall 2021 semester.

BOR has allocated $3-million in one-time funding to launch the Pledge to Advance Connecticut (PACT).

“PACT is Connecticut’s tuition and fee-free community college program. The BOR’s action is expected to cover PACT scholarships for eligible students for the fall 2020 semester, but additional state funding would be required for the program to continue in the spring,” CSCU said Thursday.

To qualify, you must be a first-time, full-time student who has graduated from a Connecticut high school. Candidates must fill out a FAFSA and apply and register by July 15.

Jim in CT

06-01-2022, 08:52 AM

a state is made up of its citizens. A state is not a person. I could care less if you think the "wealth" of a state is based on how much $ the state has in the bank. I'm more concerned w/how healthy the citizens are or how long they live or their access to good mental health services, or any other fact that impacts people and their lives on a day to day basis. When you look at those the R led states fall down.

so what does this say to you about our state government.

we have some of the highest tax rates in the nation, applied to some of the highest incomes in the nation. That necessarily means, we have the state government a ton of money. They spent all that.

Then we got the casinos, which in good years,, gave hundreds of millions of dollars to the state. And they spent all
that.

Then because that wasn’t enough, the state borrowed tens of thousands of dollars for every person living here, and they spent all that.

And what do we have to show for it? What can i get here, that I can’t get in a nice suburb of NH, or in a well run place like Franklin TN?

Nothing. I get nothing from the state, that i wouldn’t get if i lived in a other state with lower taxes.

What i get, is a public university in CT that’s way more expensive than what’s available in other places with lower taxes.

If you’re a multi millionaire, CT is a better place. And probably if you want state welfare, Ct is a better place.

But for everyone in between, please tell me what CT offers, that you can’t get ( cheaper) in a well run suburb of NH or TN or SC?

What’s our value proposition? Abortions?
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PaulS

06-01-2022, 08:53 AM

Jim in CT

06-01-2022, 08:57 AM

This article is especially interesting in that one party seems to be against free tuition - any idea which party that was?

https://www.ctpost.com/local/article/Connecticut-Democrats-unveil-free-college-plan-12720739.php

we can’t begin to afford it. TN can, that have big surpluses most years. we dont.

What part of “we’re broke”, exactly, don’t CT democrats understand?
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Jim in CT

06-01-2022, 09:00 AM

This article is especially interesting in that one party seems to be against free tuition - any idea which party that was?

https://www.ctpost.com/local/article/Connecticut-Democrats-unveil-free-college-plan-12720739.php

I’m also no fan of the CT GOP.

i commented directly on your article. Any chance you can do the same?

Here, our u funded debt at the end of 2021 was estimated at about 100 billion. That’s 33,333 for every human being i. the state ( assuming we all pay taxes, which we don’t.). That’s an additional $133,333 for every family if 4, on top of current taxes.

What’s your take on that?

https://ctexaminer.com/2021/12/14/connecticuts-pension-debts-arent-even-close-to-covered/
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PaulS

06-01-2022, 09:09 AM

Jim in CT

06-01-2022, 09:15 AM

You were big on touting free tuition in TN. I showed that we have free tuition in CT and now you're dismissing it along with many other stats that show people in CT lead better lives than people in TN.

You win.

TN has more than enough surplus funds, to pay for it. As I showed, we don't.

I'm not dismissing free tuition in CT. I'm saying we can't come close to affording it, and you didn't offer a syllable to suggest otherwise.

TN has no state income tax, it offers free tuition at its community colleges, and this year it is projecting a 3.4 billion surplus.

https://www.timesnews.net/news/state/tennessee-collected-3-4b-more-in-taxes-and-fees-than-previously-estimated/article_935c4d8b-0b57-54e3-8abc-b636f8c55532.html

CT, I think, is projecting a very big surplus for this year. But we have unfunded debt of $100 billion.

I get that you're not going to comment on anything that criticizes CT or praises anything about TN. We can be done.

I know what's coming in this state. Do you?

Pete F.

06-01-2022, 09:49 AM

i don’t equate leadership with using the deaths of kids to engage in political demagoguery.

you know what he’s going to say, and you’re going to say he’s wrong.

we get it.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Speaking of political demagoguery

Powerful words from Combined Law Enforcement Associations of Texas:

"There has been a great deal of false and misleading information in the aftermath of this tragedy. Some of the information came from the very highest levels of government and law enforcement. Sources that Texans once saw as iron-clad and completely reliable have now been proven false. This false information has exacerbated ill-informed speculation which has, in turn, created a hotbed of unreliability when it comes to finding the truth. The truth we all can trust.
For this reason, we believe that a strong independent investigation by the US Department of Justice with assistance from the FBI will discover what really happened, thus helping agencies everywhere to understand how best to stop a similar compounded tragedy from happening again."
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wdmso

06-01-2022, 01:36 PM

Texas officials: Teacher didn’t leave door propped open before massacre

Seems Easier to blame a grooming woke teacher then taking the time and finding the actual Truth .. 1st?

Not following why this shooting narrative has become so confused?

Who or what were they trying to protect? And Why?
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Raider Ronnie

06-02-2022, 05:33 AM

Speaking of political demagoguery

Powerful words from Combined Law Enforcement Associations of Texas:

"There has been a great deal of false and misleading information in the aftermath of this tragedy. Some of the information came from the very highest levels of government and law enforcement. Sources that Texans once saw as iron-clad and completely reliable have now been proven false. This false information has exacerbated ill-informed speculation which has, in turn, created a hotbed of unreliability when it comes to finding the truth. The truth we all can trust.
For this reason, we believe that a strong independent investigation by the US Department of Justice with assistance from the FBI will discover what really happened, thus helping agencies everywhere to understand how best to stop a similar compounded tragedy from happening again."
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

There’s nothing False about the timeline & the reports of all the cell phone calls made while the cops stood around doing nothing while this nutcase continued to slaughter kids.
You want to fix the problem with school shootings, end gun free zones & give schools the same protection government buildings get.

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wdmso

06-03-2022, 10:19 AM

DeSantis Vetoes Funds for Rays Facility After Team Comments on Gun Violence

Ron freedom of speech is for ME! Not for thee

but Ron has no comments himself on the shootings shocking

And people call that leadership :faga:

Pete F.

06-03-2022, 12:24 PM

There’s nothing False about the timeline & the reports of all the cell phone calls made while the cops stood around doing nothing while this nutcase continued to slaughter kids.
You want to fix the problem with school shootings, end gun free zones & give schools the same protection government buildings get.

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Simple, just need more guns

Ohio school districts could begin arming employees as soon as this fall under legislation approved by Republican lawmakers and set to be signed by GOP Gov. Mike DeWine.

Will there be background/vetting procedures in place before Ohio starts arming art teachers? Will Ohio’s teachers be trained in close quarters shooting? Will they get continuous training throughout their lifetime to keep skills up? If not, will their guns be removed?

Will there be gun safes in every room in Ohio? Who will maintain these guns to keep them in working order? Who's responsible for these guns if a child touches it? How much state-sponsored ammunition will be offered to each teacher? Will each school in Ohio hire an armorer?

In Buffalo, a trained guard with a pistol lost the battle and his life against an assailant with an AR15 & body armor. The Tree of Life shooter wounded 4 Pittsburgh cops, including 2 SWAT members.

If you don't have the mindset to kill, a weapon does nothing.
Do you really want trained killers teaching children?

Will Ohio’s GOP raise taxes to pay for all these new guns & training?

Of course not.

wdmso

06-03-2022, 03:16 PM

Simple, just need more guns

Ohio school districts could begin arming employees as soon as this fall under legislation approved by Republican lawmakers and set to be signed by GOP Gov. Mike DeWine.

Will there be background/vetting procedures in place before Ohio starts arming art teachers? Will Ohio’s teachers be trained in close quarters shooting? Will they get continuous training throughout their lifetime to keep skills up? If not, will their guns be removed?

Will there be gun safes in every room in Ohio? Who will maintain these guns to keep them in working order? Who's responsible for these guns if a child touches it? How much state-sponsored ammunition will be offered to each teacher? Will each school in Ohio hire an armorer?

In Buffalo, a trained guard with a pistol lost the battle and his life against an assailant with an AR15 & body armor. The Tree of Life shooter wounded 4 Pittsburgh cops, including 2 SWAT members.

If you don't have the mindset to kill, a weapon does nothing.
Do you really want trained killers teaching children?

Will Ohio’s GOP raise taxes to pay for all these new guns & training?

Of course not.

I thought teachers were indoctrinating the youth of America?

Now the GOP wants to arm them
Teachers have to use personal fund for paper and pens for their classes

But now we’re going to find money to arm them , and pay for the training ? And the liability insurance?

And it’s voluntary.. it all equals pointless
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Got Stripers

06-05-2022, 10:16 AM

Care to guess how many mass shootings and deaths since this thread started, one a day for the entire year, but it’s all mental health and hardening school.

wdmso

06-05-2022, 01:46 PM

Care to guess how many mass shootings and deaths since this thread started, one a day for the entire year, but it’s all mental health and hardening school.

It’s just easier for them to call everyone crazy. Then to admit there’s a gun availability problem in America

Most states don’t require lost or stolen guns to be reported . And it’s near impossible to trace them back to owners because the GOP will not allow electronic records for gun purchases

Federal law prohibits the federal government from collecting firearm sales records in a central repository

Aka a searchable data base

Because the gun lobby claimed it’s a step toward confiscation.. seems their against making it easy for law enforcement to trace weapons used in crimes

In a 21st century searchable database that can be set up to only provide certain data..
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Got Stripers

06-06-2022, 04:51 AM

Five mass shootings over the weekend, but any bets on if Mitch let’s anything happen to make changes most Americans want.

Jim in CT

06-06-2022, 05:54 AM

Five mass shootings over the weekend, but any bets on if Mitch let’s anything happen to make changes most Americans want.

Americans want sensible changes that will work. Not radical
changes that have been tried already and failed, but which will make liberals feel good about themselves

just take politics out of it and solve the damn problem, like we all solve problems every day. But they ( both sides) can’t be honest or take the politics out of it.

They don’t want to solve the problem, they want to win elections. Those are two very different objectives

Term limits would go a long way to solve it.
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Jim in CT

06-06-2022, 05:58 AM

It’s just easier for them to call everyone crazy. Then to admit there’s a gun availability problem in America

Most states don’t require lost or stolen guns to be reported . And it’s near impossible to trace them back to owners because the GOP will not allow electronic records for gun purchases

Federal law prohibits the federal government from collecting firearm sales records in a central repository

Aka a searchable data base

Because the gun lobby claimed it’s a step toward confiscation.. seems their against making it easy for law enforcement to trace weapons used in crimes

In a 21st century searchable database that can be set up to only provide certain data..
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

i admit there’s a gun availability problem.

i also admit that the 400 million guns out there, are the reason why prospective gun laws have failed
miserably to prevent gun crime in the past.

Yet the liberal solution is always an exact repeat of didn’t work i. chicago and DC.

Is gun availability the only part of this wayne? i’ve said gun control is a part of this, so has john.

Is there anything else wrong, that’s worth addressing? or is it just the inanimate object?

is there anything sickly about our culture? anything at all?

You’re just a parrot.
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Pete F.

06-06-2022, 08:00 AM

Jim in CT

06-06-2022, 08:58 AM

The United States is the 128th safest country in the world according to the Global Peace Index. The US’s safety rank has decreased each year since 2016. A large factor in determining the safety index of countries is their murder rate.

Too many cities have worse murder rates than Chicago and DC.

St. Louis, MO (69.4)
Baltimore, MD (51.1)
New Orleans, LA (40.6)
Detroit, MI (39.7)
Cleveland, OH (33.7)
Las Vegas, NV (31.4)
Kansas City, MO (31.2)
Memphis, TN (27.1)
Newark, NJ (25.6)
Chicago, IL (24)
Cincinnati, OH (23.8)
Philadelphia, PA (20.2)
Milwaukee, WI (20.0)
Tulsa, OK (18.6)
Pittsburgh, PA (18.4)
Indianapolis, IN (17.7)
Louisville, KY (17.5)
Oakland, CA (17.1)
Washington D.C. (17.0)
Atlanta, GA (16.7)

Police budgets are at an all-time high and climbing. But clearance rates—the rate at which cops make an arrest related to a crime—are at historic, all-time lows. Cops nationwide have stopped “solving” crimes. Only 50% of murders even lead to an arrest.

Maybe military style policing isn’t working.
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I never said Chicago was the most dangerous city. It’s relevant to bring up Chicago because they tried extremely strict gun control
there, and yet they have 500 homicides a year.

As always, even you know you can’t respond to what i said, so you respond to something no one ever said.

Show me the data to suggest that gun control will work here in the US, and i can be persuaded.

Out of curiosity, look at the list of cities with the highest murder rates. What percentage of those cities have been run by liberals for decades? And what percentage have been run by conservatives for decades?

Does the answer to those questions, lead you to any conclusions at all?

We need to do things very differently in our cities. What we’re currently doing, isn’t working . Do you disagree?

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Pete F.

06-06-2022, 10:57 AM

I never said Chicago was the most dangerous city. It’s relevant to bring up Chicago because they tried extremely strict gun control
there, and yet they have 500 homicides a year.

As always, even you know you can’t respond to what i said, so you respond to something no one ever said.

Show me the data to suggest that gun control will work here in the US, and i can be persuaded.

Out of curiosity, look at the list of cities with the highest murder rates. What percentage of those cities have been run by liberals for decades? And what percentage have been run by conservatives for decades?

Does the answer to those questions, lead you to any conclusions at all?

We need to do things very differently in our cities. What we’re currently doing, isn’t working . Do you disagree?

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

How far away is Chicago from Indiana, a place with almost no gun control? Or DC from Virginia?

So the governance of the state and country make no difference?

The USA safety rating has decreased yearly since 2016 yet you squawk like it’s a new thing and impossible to solve.

The NRA has spent millions on politicians over the past thirty years, succeeding in removing the successful assault weapons ban.
Since 2004 when there were 400,000 in existence the number has grown to more than 20 million.

Trumplican politicians pose in campaign ads, with weapons and people have pictures of their families with their weapons.
And we wonder why we have mass shootings in this country.

You claim the issue is in Cities, you mean like Uvalde?

You parrot all the talking points, consistently and claim that any counterpoint is parroting.

It’s not impossible, following the Uvalde, Texas school shooting, Canada is expanding background checks, banning 1,500 types of military-style assault weapons, starting a buyback program, and requiring rifle magazines to be permanently altered to never hold more than 5 rounds.
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Jim in CT

06-06-2022, 11:51 AM

How far away is Chicago from Indiana, a place with almost no gun control? Or DC from Virginia?

So the governance of the state and country make no difference?

The USA safety rating has decreased yearly since 2016 yet you squawk like it’s a new thing and impossible to solve.

The NRA has spent millions on politicians over the past thirty years, succeeding in removing the successful assault weapons ban.
Since 2004 when there were 400,000 in existence the number has grown to more than 20 million.

Trumplican politicians pose in campaign ads, with weapons and people have pictures of their families with their weapons.
And we wonder why we have mass shootings in this country.

You claim the issue is in Cities, you mean like Uvalde?

You parrot all the talking points, consistently and claim that any counterpoint is parroting.

It’s not impossible, following the Uvalde, Texas school shooting, Canada is expanding background checks, banning 1,500 types of military-style assault weapons, starting a buyback program, and requiring rifle magazines to be permanently altered to never hold more than 5 rounds.
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SO you're not going to come close to answering my question, shocker.

"How far away is Chicago from Indiana, a place with almost no gun control? Or DC from Virginia?"

You're proving my point. Like Chicago and DC, every place in America is surrounded by guns. Which is why prospective gun laws have little impact. How will it be different this time?

"You claim the issue is in Cities, you mean like Uvalde?"

If we're talking about garden variety gun violence, the issue is primarily cities, yes. I don't see any small suburbs on your list of places with the highest murder rates. Do you?

"You parrot all the talking points"

Nope. I've said 100 times I support common sense gun control that hasn't been shown to be a dismal failure already.

That was a good post by you. You dodged my question completely, and told 3/4 demonstrably false lies.

"Canada is expanding background checks"

Totally support that.

"banning 1,500 types of military-style assault weapons"

We did that here, they let it lapse because it didn't work.

"requiring rifle magazines to be permanently altered to never hold more than 5 rounds."

These are clearly aimed at mass shootings, and might help. They will do absolutely nothing to put a dent in the carnage happening in our cities, which claims way more lives., Why is your side so much more concerned about these rare mass shootings, than about what happens every single day in our cities?

Answer - it's about winning lections, not about saving lives.

Rudy Guilianni showed us how to save lives, he paved the way when he was mayor of NY. But those policies don't help liberals win elections, so better to do away with them and live with the spike in murders.

Pete F.

06-06-2022, 12:15 PM

Jim in CT

06-06-2022, 12:31 PM

The rate of murders in the US has gone up at an alarming rate. But, despite a media narrative to the contrary, this is a problem that affects Republican-run cities and states as much or more than the Democratic bastions.
In 2020, per capita murder rates were 40% higher in states won by Donald Trump than those won by Joe Biden.
8 of the 10 states with the highest murder rates in 2020 voted for the Republican presidential nominee in every election this century.
But yet you parrot that it’s the liberal cities that are the issue.

If it didn’t work why were there only 400 thousand when the ban was removed and 20 Million and growing now?
Controlling the availability and distribution of guns nationwide will make a difference, Americans don’t have anymore need for guns than other countries.
Federal law requires magazine limitation for duck hunting—no more than 3 rounds in a shotgun. Why? It's not fair to ducks.

Yet when we try to limit magazines to 10 rounds in Congress, we’re blocked. If we can limit magazines to protect ducks, we ought to be able to do the same to protect people.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"In 2020, per capita murder rates were 40% higher in states won by Donald Trump than those won by Joe Biden."

Why is state control more important than city control? Other than the fact that it makes the point you desperately want to make...

"Controlling the availability and distribution of guns nationwide will make a difference,"

Not a big difference, not when there are already 400 million guns out there, many in the hands of violent criminals. We've had nationwide gun control laws and assault weapons bans.

"Federal law requires magazine limitation for duck hunting—no more than 3 rounds in a shotgun. Why? It's not fair to ducks."

I'm not disagreeing with you. But why not address all aspects of this, as opposed to limiting the discussion to topics that are political winners for the left?

Got Stripers

06-06-2022, 01:04 PM

Assault rifle bans that expire don’t help, limits on the sale or an outright ban, along with the rounds these semi automatic weapons can fire, background checks, waiting periods for certain sales, closing the loop holes in private sales and MUCH better vetting of anyone buying would help. Buy back programs, red flag laws, obviously mental health programs are all needed. Certainly politicians actually voting the way the MAJORITY of their constituents want would be a huge help, but they won’t it means donor money goes elsewhere and they loose the power. The pro life mantra doesn’t play well when you ignore the thousands of children loosing their futures in these mass shootings.

Jim in CT

06-06-2022, 01:33 PM

The pro life mantra doesn’t play well when you ignore the thousands of children loosing their futures in these mass shootings.

Except the right isn't ignoring mass shootings, they just focus on different aspects of the solution. The left focuses on gun control ands ignores everything else. The right ignores gun control and focuses on everything else. Somewhere in the middle, is the solution.

It's the left that absolutely ignores everyday urban gun violence, which costs far more lives. They ignore it because the issue doesn't help them win elections.

Pete F.

06-06-2022, 01:46 PM

"In 2020, per capita murder rates were 40% higher in states won by Donald Trump than those won by Joe Biden."

Why is state control more important than city control? Other than the fact that it makes the point you desperately want to make...

"Controlling the availability and distribution of guns nationwide will make a difference,"

Not a big difference, not when there are already 400 million guns out there, many in the hands of violent criminals. We've had nationwide gun control laws and assault weapons bans.

"Federal law requires magazine limitation for duck hunting—no more than 3 rounds in a shotgun. Why? It's not fair to ducks."

I'm not disagreeing with you. But why not address all aspects of this, as opposed to limiting the discussion to topics that are political winners for the left?

So when I rebut your usual Chicago DC trope it becomes my “desperate point” because gun crime in Trumplican strongholds is moot

Nobody is saying to only look at one cause except the right, who’s claiming that the second amendment means more than “a well regulated militia” and how dare you threaten my ability to have as many guns as I want without restrictions, etc.
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wdmso

06-06-2022, 02:00 PM

Where’s that well regulated militia when people need them?

Seems Uvalde Police Enlist Bikers to Block Reporters Covering Funerals

Bikers to the rescue where have we seen this before

Let me help

Trump Warns: It Would Be ‘Very Bad’ if My Police, Biker Gang Fans Decided to Get ‘Tough’ on My Opponents
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Pete F.

06-06-2022, 02:12 PM

What are you worrying about?

In a new @CBSNewsPoll, 72% of the nation believes mass shootings are preventable, however, there is a partisan split with 44% of Trumplicans saying mass shootings are something we have to accept.

Wearing masks will warp kids for life, but going to school in a jail with armed guards and drills on what to do if there’s an active shooter won’t have any effect.

Since 1999, when the Republican Party overturned common sense gun safety measures, every parent has seen our schools turned into fortresses with armed guards at many. Still doesn’t keep our kids safe. does it?
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Got Stripers

06-06-2022, 03:35 PM

Leading cause of deaths in US kids is guns, not drugs, not car accidents and it gets worse every year, 12 a day but Mitch will make it right

Jim in CT

06-06-2022, 04:40 PM

Jim in CT

06-06-2022, 04:41 PM

Leading cause of deaths in US kids is guns, not drugs, not car accidents and it gets worse every year, 12 a day but Mitch will make it right

and what % of those kids are killed with AR-15s in mass school
shootings ( which is all
the left talks about). and what % are killed in garden variety urban violence one at a time, which the left desperately wants to ignore?

why are we putting 100% of the energy into the much smaller problem? Answer - Politics. The solution to fixing the cities lies with conservative ideas, and the left well knows this, and therefore the left refuses to discuss it.

John had the numbers for the tiny % of gun deaths that democrats dedicate 100% of their energy to. Makes the motives pretty obvious.

I’m not saying the gop isn’t at fault, they’re too in the pocket of the NRA. but there’s a lot more to this than can be impacted with gun laws.
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Raider Ronnie

06-07-2022, 09:49 AM

Anyone with a lead of a pre-ban AR-14,
I’m looking to buy.
$ finders fee if it leads to a good price.
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Pete F.

06-07-2022, 11:53 AM

Here's something written by Mona Charon, a conservative, albeit not a Republican.

The aftermath of a horrific mass shooting is not the time one would usually turn to a humor site, and yet, the Onion had an insightful take on Uvalde.

The headline: “‘No Way to Prevent This’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Occurs.”

The piece quotes a fictitious citizen: “‘This was a terrible tragedy, but sometimes these things just happen and there’s nothing anyone can do to stop them,’ said Idaho resident Kathy Miller.”

And here’s the kicker—the Onion has run pieces with that same headline for years.

As I write, there are reports of yet another attack in Tulsa. Our mass shooting problem—there have been an average of two per month for the past 13 years —arises from a familiar stew of history, culture, law, and commerce. And certain facts loom large. Yes, we are among the most violent countries in the advanced industrial world, and have long been. Yes, guns have always been plentiful whereas mass shootings are a relatively new disease. Yes, mass shootings represent a small fraction of gun deaths in America. And yes, the Second Amendment makes limiting guns more difficult here than in Canada, Australia, or other places. Those are big, hulking obstacles to solving our problem. But there are other assumptions that are trotted out regularly in our hoary gun discussions that are less daunting than they appear.

Consider the matter of guns in circulation. We are often told that there are about 393 million guns in private hands in the United States—more than one per person. How then, some demand, can we expect to make a dent in the problem by instituting controls that affect only new gun sales? All that would do, they insist, is make it more difficult for law-abiding people to obtain guns, while criminals would always have easy access.

The sheer number of guns in private hands needn’t intimidate us into inaction. We have 289 million cars in America and manage to regulate, license, and control them in various ways. The number is not the point. It’s the laws that matter.

Here is a list of 22 mass shootings since 2012. The Aurora, Colorado shooter (I do not publish the names) purchased his guns just before killing people in a movie theater. 12 dead. The Navy Yard shooter purchased his guns before his rampage. 12 dead. The killer who attacked Charleston’s “Mother Emanuel” church purchased his Glock after a botched background check. 9 dead. The Roseburg, Oregon shooter purchased his guns. 10 dead. The San Bernardino shooter got a friend to purchase the guns he used in his attack. 14 dead. The Orlando shooter purchased his guns legally a week before killing people in a nightclub. 49 dead. The Las Vegas killer purchased 33 of the 49 guns found in his hotel room in the year prior to his shooting spree at a country music festival. 58 dead. The Sutherland Springs, Texas killer was able to purchase his firearms despite a history of domestic violence. 25 dead. The Parkland, Florida shooter purchased his weapon a year before attacking Marjory Stoneman Douglas high school. 17 dead. The Pittsburgh assassin legally purchased his rifle and three handguns before shooting up the Tree of Life synagogue. 11 dead. The Thousand Oaks killer? Legally purchased. 12 dead. Virginia Beach? Legally purchased. 12 dead. El Paso? Legally purchased. 23 dead. Dayton? Legally purchased. 9 dead. Atlanta? Legally purchased. 8 dead. Boulder? Legally purchased a few days before a grocery store attack. 10 dead. San Jose? Legally purchased. 9 dead. Buffalo? Legally purchased. 10 dead. And Uvalde, legally purchased days before the attack on Robb elementary school. 21 dead.

Of those 22 cases, there were just three that did not involve a legal sale to the killer: The Midland, Texas shooter purchased his rifle through a private sale before killing 7 strangers; the Santa Fe shooter, who killed 10 at his high school, used guns legally owned by his father; and the shooter who killed 26 people at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut used guns bought by his mother.

Perhaps all of these killers would have been able to lay hands on guns already owned by individuals. Maybe. But it would have been much harder than walking into a gun store. In most cases, these killers are mentally unstable, impulsive, and socially maladroit. Purchasing a weapon via private sale would be more challenging.

So making it more difficult to purchase guns—say, by adding more complete background checks, increasing the minimum age to 21, requiring waiting periods, or adopting “red flag laws” that make it possible for family members or police to ask courts to have a person’s guns temporarily removed—would have inhibited the vast majority of the killers listed above.

Here’s another cliché that needs burial—the hunting culture. The misperception here tends to be among pro-gun control Democrats who don’t actually know any hunters and don’t have many in their urban districts but assume that “out there” scores of millions of Americans are shooting deer and pheasants every weekend. This leads some Democrats to mock those who buy AR-15s, as when President Joe Biden asked whether they think the “deer are wearing Kevlar vests.” In fact, hunting is in steep decline in the United States. Less than 4 percent of the population hunts, leading to worries about wildlife conservation. More Americans bicycle than go hunting. Four times as many sing in choirs. And vastly more—65 percent—play video games.

For good or ill, the rugged American guy out in a duck blind wearing camouflage is becoming, if not quite as endangered as the red wolf, nearly so. Hunting today is less an honored tradition than a boutique hobby.

Hunting is not the reason millions of Americans cherish their guns. Their reasons range from benign, like concerns about their safety, to insane, like stockpiling weapons for the coming apocalyptic battle between QAnon and the forces of darkness. But Democrats stumble when they play into GOP talking points about gun-grabbers. Beto O’Rourke’s pronouncements—“Hell yes, we’re going to take your AR-15s”—does more damage to the goal of reasonable gun control than the NRA can do in a year.

One more old saw that needs retirement: the mental health focus. I have written for years about the legal obstacles we’ve adopted that make it far too difficult to stop an unstable or dangerous person from obtaining or keeping a firearm. But the GOP is now hiding behind the “mental health” mantra to evade responsibility. It does no good to talk of improving mental health if 1) you have no intention of increasing funding, and 2) you refuse to adopt measures (like red flag laws) that would impinge upon the Second Amendment rights of even a small number of individuals.

A bipartisan group of senators is currently huddling in hopes of devising some kind of gun control compromise that can pass both houses. Godspeed to them. But I fear their efforts will fail in our ultrapolarized climate.

If we hope to unstick our politics and permit compromise and common-sense reforms for heart-wrenching problems, we’re going to have to reform the way we choose our leaders. GOP politicians don’t dance to the NRA’s tune for the money. They do it because that’s what Republican primary voters demand. And Democrats who grandstand about gun confiscation are appealing to their left flank—the voters who show up for primaries. In the matter of guns, as with other pressing national concerns, the solutions cannot be unlocked until the incentives facing politicians change—and that requires nonpartisan primaries.

Raider Ronnie

06-07-2022, 01:19 PM

They can talk all they want.
Guns aren’t going anywhere.
Matter of fact I’m getting ready spend some $ on a few.
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Pete F.

06-10-2022, 12:01 PM

Rural America Reels From Violent Crime. ‘People Lost Their Ever-Lovin’ Minds.’

Murder rates didn’t soar only in cities during the pandemic; small-town sheriffs and prosecutors are overwhelmed with homicide cases
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Pete F.

06-17-2022, 02:00 AM

Jim in CT

06-17-2022, 05:36 AM

California Governor Gavin Newsom just joined Truth Social and is pointing out to Trump supporters that 8 of the 10 states with the highest murder rates are red states— “I know we’re all on this platform in search for the ‘truth.’”
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and who runs the places within those states that are driving the murder rate? are murder rates high throughout the whole state? or in certain places? and who runs those certain places?

here are cities with highest murder rates. how many are run by republicans for decades?

https://worldpopulationreview.com/us-city-rankings/cities-with-most-murders

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Pete F.

06-17-2022, 06:31 AM

That’s what makes your narrative work
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Jim in CT

06-17-2022, 08:31 AM

That’s what makes your narrative work
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

and pointing to states, is what makes your narrative work.

Why is the state of TN more responsible for what happens in Memphis, then the people
who run Memphis?

If the state of TN was that bad, why are so many people
moving to the suburbs like Franklin, which are thriving? if a state was that influential and that incompetent, wouldn’t the whole state be poorly run?
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Pete F.

06-17-2022, 06:39 PM

Murder rates are 40% higher in the 25 states that Trump won than the 25 states that Biden won.
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Jim in CT

06-17-2022, 07:44 PM

Murder rates are 40% higher in the 25 states that Trump won than the 25 states that Biden won.
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then there won’t be enough republican voters for the gop
to win in november. you’re all
set.
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Raider Ronnie

06-18-2022, 03:59 AM

$20million guns sold In 2021.
On average $400-$700 for a hand gun.
That adds up to a whole lot of sales tax revenue for states with the exception of NH & a handful of other states that don’t have sales tax and the gang bangers who get their guns illegally.
Guns aren’t going anywhere !

Democrats in power are the greatest gun salesmen 👍
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wdmso

06-18-2022, 06:02 AM

wdmso

06-18-2022, 09:55 AM

Jim in CT

06-18-2022, 03:44 PM

X Uvalde officials are using a legal loophole to block the release of shooting records

The city and its police department are arguing against the release of the requested records, citing the following reasons: the city is being sued, some individuals' criminal history records could include "highly embarrassing information"; some of the information could reveal police "methods, techniques, and strategies for preventing and predicting crime," could cause "emotional/mental distress," "is not of legitimate concern to the public,

Wow
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the point being, you can’t always count on the government to protect you or your kids, therefore a compelling argument can be made to avail yourself of your second amendment rights.

your post could be a poster for the NRA.
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wdmso

06-18-2022, 03:56 PM

the point being, you can’t always count on the government to protect you or your kids, therefore a compelling argument can be made to avail yourself of your second amendment rights.

your post could be a poster for the NRA.
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Spoken like a true cult member!

not sure how you can twist what what I posted into this

"the point being, you can’t always count on the government to protect you or your kids"

and somehow twist into why we need the 2nd Amendment :faga:

Raider Ronnie

06-18-2022, 04:13 PM

No fear and tin foil hats drive gun sales . Gun owners prove it again again and again .. when ever a Dems in office
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Whatever you say.
Fact is no way in hell any elected politician r or d would ever do away with a tax
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Jim in CT

06-18-2022, 04:16 PM

Spoken like a true cult member!

not sure how you can twist what what I posted into this

"the point being, you can’t always count on the government to protect you or your kids"

and somehow twist into why we need the 2nd Amendment :faga:

you made a case that we can’t count in the police. As is often the case, guy made the opposite argument of what you thought you were making.

You made a terrific pro 2A argument. Kudos.
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wdmso

06-18-2022, 04:55 PM

you made a case that we can’t count in the police. As is often the case, guy made the opposite argument of what you thought you were making.

You made a terrific pro 2A argument. Kudos.
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wow your imagination is running wild now its

"you made a case that we can’t count in the police."

Jim you are more and more detached from reality! it's more obvious by the day ..

you can't even read the actual Truth of why Texas refuses to release information to the Public and see it for what it is Stonewalling

Typical hypocrite conservative Claiming to support freedom and transparency ... only if that Transparency Benefits the GOP or conservativism like I have said freedom for Me not for thee the new MANTRA of the right

wdmso

06-19-2022, 09:36 AM

Police officers never tried to open the door leading to two classrooms at Uvalde's Robb Elementary School during the 77-minute time period between when gunman Salvador Ramos, 18, got inside the room and killed 21 people and when officers got in and shot him, according to surveillance footage

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/uvalde-robb-elementary-
shootings/2022/06/19/id/1075063/

Seems the Truth Has made the case that we can’t count in the police. At least in Uvalde

wdmso

06-22-2022, 07:18 AM

McCraw testified during a Texas state senate hearing the door could not be locked from the inside, and there was no indication that officers even attempted to try to open the door ..
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Pete F.

07-04-2022, 05:06 PM

Well-Regulated Militia Opens Fire On Fourth Of July Parade In Highland Park, Illinois; Cheap Thoughts And Useless Prayers Now Being Rushed To The Scene ... more on this soon-to-be-forgotten-and-then-repeated story as it develops ...

"We've really got to harden these parade routes. One entrance and exit per parade. Ballistic shields on every float and body armor for every baby."

Some politician, tomorrow

Reporter: Any idea how he got on to the roof?
“So the roof was a business and it looks like access to the roof via a ladder in an alley was unsecure.”

I think we can all agree, more ladder control will keep us safe.

Guns don’t kill people, ladders do.

This was a parade with tons of cops and firefighters, apparently non of the good guys with guns could do anything about it.

No other social problem is solved by more of the same. We don’t give alcoholics more booze. We don’t give drug addicts more drugs. Those who wish to quit smoking are not encouraged to smoke more. Yet Church of the NRA believers insist that we need MORE guns. Where’s the logic?
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Got Stripers

07-04-2022, 06:46 PM

Militia needs training, there just aren’t that many calendar days in a year you can practice on live targets, you never know when the red coats are coming. The pace is good, over 250 mass shooting this year, keep up the pace boys, you never know when that call to arms will come in.

JohnR

07-04-2022, 08:07 PM

Well-Regulated Militia Opens Fire On Fourth Of July Parade In Highland Park, Illinois; Cheap Thoughts And Useless Prayers Now Being Rushed To The Scene ... more on this soon-to-be-forgotten-and-then-repeated story as it develops ...

Good Job, Pete. Stunning. Left wing incel anarchist shoots up a 4th of July parade and you call it Well-Regulated Militia.

You will soon find that this kid:

Was a problem kid.
Couldn't adjust

Socialist.
Hated everyone.
His family has gone thru rough times with the pandemic.

The Dad Fisherman

07-04-2022, 08:16 PM

He made his escape in a Honda Fit, so at least he was concerned about the environment
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Pete F.

07-04-2022, 08:34 PM

Good Job, Pete. Stunning. Left wing incel anarchist shoots up a 4th of July parade and you call it Well-Regulated Militia.

You will soon find that this kid:

Was a problem kid.
Couldn't adjust

Socialist.
Hated everyone.
His family has gone thru rough times with the pandemic.

Bobby Crimo, aka Awake the Rapper, is the shooter responsible for the July 4 Highland Park Parade shooting.

He was a die-hard Trump supporter who released a QAnon-inspired song called “I Am The Storm.”

Has 47 tattooed on his face

As we see, he's apparently a proud Trump supporter, & was out exercising his conservative rights & spreading his conservative values this July 4th.
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Got Stripers

07-05-2022, 05:40 AM

JohnR

07-05-2022, 07:27 AM

Bobby Crimo, aka Awake the Rapper, is the shooter responsible for the July 4 Highland Park Parade shooting.

He was a die-hard Trump supporter who released a QAnon-inspired song called “I Am The Storm.”

Has 47 tattooed on his face

As we see, he's apparently a proud Trump supporter, & was out exercising his conservative rights & spreading his conservative values this July 4th.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

He shot up a 4th of July Parade. What "Right Wing" person does that?

He wore a Where's Waldo outfit in front of a Trump Flag - not exactly a Venn Intersection of Trump supporters. He was there for the Memes.

His social media posts leaned into the left/anarchist realm, some leaned to the right. What we'll find out is a kid with mental illness problems that could not adjust to society.

PaulS

07-05-2022, 07:33 AM

Darren Bailey, an Illinois state senator and the Republican nominee for governor, apologized Monday after saying that people should "move on" from the deadly Highland Park shooting earlier in the day.

Bailey spoke after a July Fourth parade in the town of Skokie was canceled in the wake of the shooting, which left at least six dead and injured at least 24 others.

"Let's pray for justice to prevail, and then let's move on and let's celebrate the independence of this nation," he said.

Bailey said in a statement released after his comments that he apologizes if he "diminished the pain" being felt across Illinois.

Jim in CT

07-05-2022, 07:42 AM

wdmso

07-05-2022, 07:43 AM

It’s about weapon availability

The rest is window dressings designed to muddy the water
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JohnR

07-05-2022, 08:03 AM

It’s about weapon availability

The rest is window dressings designed to muddy the water
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

It's about your Constitutional Rights, exercising your Constitutional Rights, and the restrictions imposed on those rights. How do we effectively hamper only those that need restriction, rather than restricting everyone while only, maybe, occasionally, excepting need.

Jim in CT

07-05-2022, 08:08 AM

It’s about weapon availability

The rest is window dressings designed to muddy the water
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That's not all it is, and I can prove it. Here goes...we all have access to that weaponry, but 99.5% of us would never even think of hurting anyone, no matter how many weapons are available. A big part of this, is that more and more of us are slipping into that mental abyss, and that abyss is getting darker and scarier all the time as our collective moral compass gets more and more broken.

You are correct, if there were zero guns out there, presumably there'd be zero gun crime. Problem is, there is no remotely practical way to eliminate gun availability which (1) is constitutional, and (2) is realistic to implement. I agree it's time to try things that haven't been tried before, but I don't believe gun control will move the needle much. It's been tried so many times. It never accomplishes much. What will be different this time? I do think we have to try just so we can tell our kids we didn't choose to do nothing, but I have no reason to believe it will work. None.

If there were no guns, there'd be no gun violence. At the same time, if there were no sociopaths walking among us, we could all have machine guns but there'd be no gun violence.

There are 2 levers to pull here, gun availability and the culture/mental illness aspect of our society. Both parties are guilty of focusing on one side and completely ignoring the other.

Jim in CT

07-05-2022, 08:11 AM

It's about your Constitutional Rights, exercising your Constitutional Rights, and the restrictions imposed on those rights. How do we effectively hamper only those that need restriction, rather than restricting everyone while only, maybe, occasionally, excepting need.

That's completely, exactly correct.

"How do we effectively hamper only those that need restriction"

Answer - obviously, we can't. Not a chance.

If a democrat president can trample on constitutional rights because he feels morally justified in doing so, then a Republican president can do the same thing. And the people calling for Biden to be able to ignore parts of the constitution they don't happen to like, won't like it one bit if Trump declared he was doing the same thing.

Got Stripers

07-05-2022, 08:12 AM

That's not all it is, and I can prove it. Here goes...we all have access to that weaponry, but 99.5% of us would never even think of hurting anyone, no matter how many weapons are available. A big part of this, is that more and more of us are slipping into that mental abyss, and that abyss is getting darker and scarier all the time as our collective moral compass gets more and more broken.

You are correct, if there were zero guns out there, presumably there'd be zero gun crime. Problem is, there is no remotely practical way to eliminate gun availability which (1) is constitutional, and (2) is realistic to implement. I agree it's time to try things that haven't been tried before, but I don't believe gun control will move the needle much. It's been tried so many times. It never accomplishes much. What will be different this time? I do think we have to try just so we can tell our kids we didn't choose to do nothing, but I have no reason to believe it will work. None.

If there were no guns, there'd be no gun violence. At the same time, if there were no sociopaths walking among us, we could all have machine guns but there'd be no gun violence.

There are 2 levers to pull here, gun availability and the culture/mental illness aspect of our society. Both parties are guilty of focusing on one side and completely ignoring the other.

OMG Jim is going to prove something else, thank god he is here to set the record straight on the pressing issues of our lives:jump:

PaulS

07-05-2022, 08:32 AM

But when Hilary says Republicans hate everybody, you defend her by saying "she apologized". So only democrats are let off the hook when they apologize?

I'm pointing out a stupid comment while also showing he apologized -mostly for your benefit. You constantly point out Hillary's deplorable comment (which looking at the state of the Rep. party was true) while not giving her credit for apologizing.

70% of the Rep. party fails to recognize the legit Pres. election while calling people groomers, pedos, talking about doing away w/gay marriage, etc. Seems to me the Rep. party is the party of anger and hate.

Jim in CT

07-05-2022, 08:39 AM

I'm pointing out a stupid comment while also showing he apologized -mostly for your benefit. You constantly point out Hillary's deplorable comment (which looking at the state of the Rep. party was true) while not giving her credit for apologizing.

70% of the Rep. party fails to recognize the legit Pres. election while calling people groomers, pedos, talking about doing away w/gay marriage, etc. Seems to me the Rep. party is the party of anger and hate.

i’m not moved by self
serving apologies by politicians, even in my party. It was a ghoulish comment and the jerk should go away.

if you think hilary was correct, you may really not like what happens in november.

just keep insulting the other side, all the polls show it’s working swell with independents.

democrats aren’t angry. right.
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PaulS

07-05-2022, 08:52 AM

i’m not moved by self
serving apologies by politicians, even in my party. It was a ghoulish comment and the jerk should go away.

if you think hilary was correct, you may really not like what happens in november. I won't like what most likely happens in Nov. but it will be mostly bc of inflation.

just keep insulting the other side, all the polls show it’s working swell with independents. Rich coming from you.

democrats aren’t angry. right.
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NM

JohnR

07-05-2022, 08:55 AM

That's completely, exactly correct.

"How do we effectively hamper only those that need restriction"

Answer - obviously, we can't. Not a chance.

We MUST find a way. Problem is the effort to find a way isn't being made. SCOTUS even stated that there is no reason why 2A should not have the RIGHT as default, like other rights. Rather than being the only RIGHT which is hampered from outset.

If a democrat president can trample on constitutional rights because he feels morally justified in doing so, then a Republican president can do the same thing. And the people calling for Biden to be able to ignore parts of the constitution they don't happen to like, won't like it one bit if Trump declared he was doing the same thing.

True

Jim in CT

07-05-2022, 10:25 AM

We MUST find a way. Problem is the effort to find a way isn't being made.

True

i agree we must try, too many little coffins. but it will be abused.

we also need to start electing a different kind of politician. Normal, productive, decent people.
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Pete F.

07-05-2022, 10:57 AM

i agree we must try, too many little coffins. but it will be abused.

we also need to start electing a different kind of politician. Normal, productive, decent people.
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Now you think morals and decency count?

Remember. If the shooter is:
•Black: He's a thug
•Immigrant: He's an illegal
•Muslim: He's a terrorist
•White: He's had a rough childhood & was bullied & girls never gave him a chance & he kept to himself & loved puppies & we must spend more on mental health.

ITS. THE. GUNS.

Mericuh
Land of the gun
Home of the grave.
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wdmso

07-05-2022, 11:16 AM

He made his escape in a Honda Fit, so at least he was concerned about the environment
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Wow all ready saw that original thought over a newsmax with the rest of regular denial crowd ..

Shocking
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wdmso

07-05-2022, 11:49 AM

It's about your Constitutional Rights, exercising your Constitutional Rights, and the restrictions imposed on those rights. How do we effectively hamper only those that need restriction, rather than restricting everyone while only, maybe, occasionally, excepting need.

Like I said window dressing the rights been twisting the 2A argument for decades

It’s odd I have said own as many guns as you want and certain guns should be controlled and licensed accordingly

But the 2A extremist live in this fantasy that that’s an infringement of their rights and all roads lead to confiscation …

When was the last time you saw a Elmer Fudd at a 2 A rally ?

All I see are clowns in tactical gear with their tricked out weapons playing dress up. Mean while responsible gun owners like myself just sit back shaking their heads .. seeing 2A hijacked

Because that’s the image the extreme 2A groups want to present …. We are armed and dangerous

It’s pure selfishness . that’s how I see it .
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The Dad Fisherman

07-05-2022, 12:00 PM

Wow all ready saw that original thought over a newsmax with the rest of regular denial crowd ..

Shocking
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You spend a lot more time on Newsmax than I do, only thing I go there for is reruns of Last Man Standing.

It was sarcasm which, for some reason, escapes your agile mind. :rolleyes:
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wdmso

07-05-2022, 12:37 PM

You spend a lot more time on Newsmax than I do, only thing I go there for is reruns of Last Man Standing.

It was sarcasm which, for some reason, escapes your agile mind. :rolleyes:
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It’s the best place to observe the Trump and Maga cult in the wild

Sure it was sarcasm .. the guy just killed 6 people
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Jim in CT

07-05-2022, 02:16 PM

Got Stripers

07-05-2022, 03:19 PM

here it is. really lousy parents. shocker.

we can’t get rid of the guns. We can love our kids.

How many mass murderers grew up in a house with a mom and a dad who were absolutely committed to the kids, everyone loves each other, went to church some sundays, ate dinner together most nights with electronics turned off?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/highland-park-shooting-suspects-parents-problem-says-former-coach
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Wow you really think society as a whole is suddenly going to revert back to the 50’s family life style? Good dream while your sleeping, but if anything this country is more and more demanding on parents trying to earn a living and kids subject to crap that impacts their mental health and you can’t eliminate either pressure. The depth of gun violence in this country and the fact it’s just getting worse and more frequent is a sad statement on the American dream. You don’t want big brother watching you and even if you can monitor the internet traffic for troubled souls, plenty off the grid can still easily access high powered weapons. Guns remain the main issue.

Jim in CT

07-05-2022, 04:59 PM

Wow you really think society as a whole is suddenly going to revert back to the 50’s family life style? Good dream while your sleeping, but if anything this country is more and more demanding on parents trying to earn a living and kids subject to crap that impacts their mental health and you can’t eliminate either pressure. The depth of gun violence in this country and the fact it’s just getting worse and more frequent is a sad statement on the American dream. You don’t want big brother watching you and even if you can monitor the internet traffic for troubled souls, plenty off the grid can still easily access high powered weapons. Guns remain the main issue.

i never ever said i thought that was going to happen. i said that the further away we get from that, the more f-cked up we are. i don’t see us ever going back, which is synonymous with saying i don’t see it getting better.

That 1950s style family unit, you know what? it worked on a whole lot of levels.

You also didn’t answer my question ( how many future mass murderers grew up in that scenario), and the reason you dodged, is because you know the answer, but it doesn’t serve your political agenda. so you ignored it.

you say we can’t relieve the pressure on parents or kids? Bullsh-t. My wife has been home for 12 years, we pulled that off by living within a lifestyle that we can afford on my salary. We sold our boat, our vacations are camping, one of our cars is a 13 year old
minivan, and we don’t go out drinking, gambling, spending money. We chose not to live in a way that guarantees pressure on both of us to make a living. It can be done. It involves sacrifice and not caring about possessions.

You say you can’t ease the pressure on kids to reduce how much they’re exposed to things that hurt them mentally?

BULLSH-T.

Parents, at least good parents, can significantly reduce that. but it takes work. talk to your kids, play with them, instead of letting them
spend 12 hours a day online while you gold or shop. it takes a ton of work. but it’s the job of parenting.

Based in your post, i’m glad i wasn’t your kid. You can reduce those pressures, but it takes sacrifice and work, two things liberals aren’t exactly known for.
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Got Stripers

07-05-2022, 05:29 PM

i never ever said i thought that was going to happen. i said that the further away we get from that, the more f-cked up we are. i don’t see us ever going back, which is synonymous with saying i don’t see it getting better.

That 1950s style family unit, you know what? it worked on a whole lot of levels.

You also didn’t answer my question ( how many future mass murderers grew up in that scenario), and the reason you dodged, is because you know the answer, but it doesn’t serve your political agenda. so you ignored it.

you say we can’t relieve the pressure on parents or kids? Bullsh-t. My wife has been home for 12 years, we pulled that off by living within a lifestyle that we can afford on my salary. We sold our boat, our vacations are camping, one of our cars is a 13 year old
minivan, and we don’t go out drinking, gambling, spending money. We chose not to live in a way that guarantees pressure on both of us to make a living. It can be done. It involves sacrifice and not caring about possessions.

You say you can’t ease the pressure on kids to reduce how much they’re exposed to things that hurt them mentally?

BULLSH-T.

Parents, at least good parents, can significantly reduce that. but it takes work. talk to your kids, play with them, instead of letting them
spend 12 hours a day online while you gold or shop. it takes a ton of work. but it’s the job of parenting.

Based in your post, i’m glad i wasn’t your kid. You can reduce those pressures, but it takes sacrifice and work, two things liberals aren’t exactly known for.
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I don’t disagree with you Jim, what I’m saying is the reality is Parents have forgotten how to parent and it’s likely never going to reverse course. So if you agree that sadly is the case, the main problem remains, guns, guns and more guns. How does a kid who got knives and swords taken away because family reported him, can then turn around two years later and legally (big problem) buy all those weapons. He isn’t going dear or duck hunting, but we can’t legislate real impactful gun legislation.