At a campaign stop, he said to a young girl, “I guarantee you, I guarantee you, I’m gonna end fossil
fuels and I’m not gonna cooperate with them.”

But he’s not hostile to fossil fuels.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Slszva6kk90

Jim, stop jerking off.

great response.

you looking forward to november?
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Poor victim

The purpose of legitimizing propaganda is to have a seemingly independent third party claim something. Then HE points to that person and says, “See? He’s saying the same thing! It must be true!”

Soaring inflation is a truly global phenomenon, with the U.S. near the middle of the pack, according to an analysis of 111 countries.
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Poor victim

The purpose of legitimizing propaganda is to have a seemingly independent third party claim something. Then HE points to that person and says, “See? He’s saying the same thing! It must be true!”

Soaring inflation is a truly global phenomenon, with the U.S. near the middle of the pack, according to an analysis of 111 countries.
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how am i a victim?

You guys denied biden was hostile to fossil fuel, so i post a video of him being extremely hostile
to fossil fuels?

I can’t be the victim, when i just clobbered you.

Biden isn’t singularly responsible for inflation. I’ve said that 50 times, so i don’t know why you keep pointing that out, or who you’re responding to. But, he added trillions of dollars into circulation, and any honest person will tell you that fuels inflation. So he made it worse. And polling shows america knows it.
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Once agin anything Biden says is taken literally
Anyone with an R it’s hyperbole?


Mr Trump asked his challenger: "Would you close down the oil industry?"
"I would transition from the oil industry, yes," responded Mr Biden, adding, "because the oil industry pollutes significantly".

Biden said fossil fuels had to be replaced by renewable energy over time with the US moving towards net zero emissions. In 2050

The POTUS doesn’t have the power many Americans think he has
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Once agin anything Biden says is taken literally

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so we should ignore what he actually says, and wait for the translation.
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so we should ignore what he actually says, and wait for the translation.
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There is no translation for most of the things Biden says.
He puts Mumbles Menino to shame with his articulate use of the English language 😜
I laugh my ass off every ride home from work listening to Howie Carrs daily Biden Blunders.
Come on man, you know the thing…
Today it was a recording of a guy singing Sinatra’s Summer Wind
But instead it was Solar Wind taken from a recent Biden speech.
Biden’s wife should be shot for allowing them to make the guy stand in like Weekend at Bernie’s.
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so we should ignore what he actually says, and wait for the translation.
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Jim the comments were from 2019 during an election stop

But. You think what Biden said about fossil fuels (even after clarifying the statement) is bad for America

to bad you and the rest of the Maga crowd don’t care that Trumps still claiming the election was still stolen and
Isn’t the real Threat to our country

Typical
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Biden’s wife should be shot

Different thread. Shooting 9mm to get better

Let me guess Hyperbole?
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Jim the comments were from 2019 during an election stop
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so we should assume he’s lying when he’s campaigning?

I never want to see Trump again, so i can’t imagine why you refer to me as a trump loyalist. i’d vote for any republican other than him in a primary.

Wayne,,one of us criticizes his side regularly. the other one never criticized his side, never under any circumstances. One of us agrees with each side on some big policy issues, the other one thinks one side is correct 100% of the time.

Who’s the blind thoughtless partisan, and who can think for himself? Do you even know?
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https://www.bbc.com/news/business-61803496

Petrol prices hit new highs every day for a month

The cost to fill a family car now stands at about £103 for petrol, and £106 for diesel, it said.

The war in Ukraine and moves to reduce dependence on Russian oil have helped drive up fuel prices, putting households under pressure as food and energy bills also soar.

The average petrol price is now 186.59p per litre, with diesel at 192.48p.


But but Biden or Boris :faga:

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-61803496

Petrol prices hit new highs every day for a month

The cost to fill a family car now stands at about £103 for petrol, and £106 for diesel, it said.

The war in Ukraine and moves to reduce dependence on Russian oil have helped drive up fuel prices, putting households under pressure as food and energy bills also soar.

The average petrol price is now 186.59p per litre, with diesel at 192.48p.


But but Biden or Boris :faga:

(1) Biden chose to come across as hostile to oil. his choice, he owns the effects.

(2) covid was also a global event. How many times did you point that out to defend Trump? Exactly Zero.
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so we should assume he’s lying when he’s campaigning?

I never want to see Trump again, so i can’t imagine why you refer to me as a trump loyalist. i’d vote for any republican other than him in a primary.

Wayne,,one of us criticizes his side regularly. the other one never criticized his side, never under any circumstances. One of us agrees with each side on some big policy issues, the other one thinks one side is correct 100% of the time.

Who’s the blind thoughtless partisan, and who can think for himself? Do you even know?
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Jim people took bidens words and confronted him accordingly
And his remarks were clarified as they should have

No one on the republican side no one minus Liz and Adam are confronting Trump and his election lies and his MAGA cult are electing election deniers in Primarys across the nation .. that's why I have no use for the current GOP

They are putting Trump (man) their jobs (staying elected) before the country all while yelling America 1st its all a lie ! while hiding behind patriotism ! when it's closer to Nationalism and fascism rolled into one once you pull back the curtain. and see what's actually happening :cheers:

(1) Biden chose to come across as hostile to oil. his choice, he owns the effects.

(2) covid was also a global event. How many times did you point that out to defend Trump? Exactly Zero.
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covid was also a global event. How many times did you point that out to defend Trump? Exactly Zero.


Trump's Failing with covid wasn't covid

. it was how he didn't deal with covid

thats where he gets the blame ... not he caused it

GOP Biden cause gas prices full stop ... because their dishonest and they know their supports are gullible, and telling lies offers no risk on election day... but the truth that will get you primaried in Trumps GOP:bl:

Jim people took bidens words and confronted him accordingly
And his remarks were clarified as they should have

No one on the republican side no one minus Liz and Adam are confronting Trump and his election lies and his MAGA cult are electing election deniers in Primarys across the nation .. that's why I have no use for the current GOP

They are putting Trump (man) their jobs (staying elected) before the country all while yelling America 1st its all a lie ! while hiding behind patriotism ! when it's closer to Nationalism and fascism rolled into one once you pull back the curtain. and see what's actually happening :cheers:

no one is co fronting trump.

so you’ve never ever heard of never trumpers

and i’m talking about me. you said i keep
defending him.
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Biden Tells Oil Refiners: Produce More Gas, Fewer Profits

https://www.newsmax.com/politics/joe-biden-oil-gas-producers/2022/06/15/id/1074496/

and the classic MAGA comments start following


So Brandon addresses and treats private companies as if he's a socialist dictator and they are state-owned and beholden to his mandates

outrage just for outrage :rotflmao::rotflmao:

no one is co fronting trump.

so you’ve never ever heard of never trumpers

and i’m talking about me. you said i keep
defending him.
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so you’ve never ever heard of never trumpers


who do you think are getting primaried

It’s 100 degrees today in Odessa Texas and the city just told its 122,600 residents that they could be without water for the next 48 hours.

That’s what decades of voting in a Republican government will do for you.
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so you’ve never ever heard of never trumpers


who do you think are getting primaried

but they themselves, the never trumpers, don’t like trump.

i never said everyone in the gop is opposed to trump. You said no one is. it’s false.
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Actually it's that no Republican politician dare go against Trump, because they will be primaried.

Someone asked us why we criticize the GOP much more than the Democrats.

It's simple: While we disagree with Democrats on certain policies, (especially the "Squad"), they're not a threat to our democracy.

Today's GOP headed by Trump poses an existential threat to our republic.

“Don’t worry about the guy who led the failed putsch, inflation is the real issue!” is a special kind of historical ignorance.

Actually it's that no Republican politician dare go against Trump, because they will be primaried.

Someone asked us why we criticize the GOP much more than the Democrats.

It's simple: While we disagree with Democrats on certain policies, (especially the "Squad"), they're not a threat to our democracy.

Today's GOP headed by Trump poses an existential threat to our republic.

“Don’t worry about the guy who led the failed putsch, inflation is the real issue!” is a special kind of historical ignorance.

trump
was potus for 4 years, for half that time his party controlled congress. in what ways did he destroy our democracy? did he unilaterally change the constitution?

I see Bidens press secretary saying that Biden encourages people to protest ( intimidate) outside the homes of supreme court judges who don’t rule the way Biden wants. That’s not a threat to our democracy.

Trumps not on the ballot in 2022, so inflation, especially this inflation, is a legitimate concern. You’re about to find out how much of a concern it is, and who Americans blame for it.

But you’ve got January 6, and the voting block of people
who want to take their young kids to drag queen shows. You’ll do great.
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trump
was potus for 4 years, for half that time his party controlled congress. in what ways did he destroy our democracy? did he unilaterally change the constitution?

I see Bidens press secretary saying that Biden encourages people to protest ( intimidate) outside the homes of supreme court judges who don’t rule the way Biden wants. That’s not a threat to our democracy.

Trumps not on the ballot in 2022, so inflation, especially this inflation, is a legitimate concern. You’re about to find out how much of a concern it is, and who Americans blame for it.

But you’ve got January 6, and the voting block of people
who want to take their young kids to drag queen shows. You’ll do great.
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in what ways did he destroy our democracy?


not paying attention or :faga::faga:

in what ways did he destroy our democracy?


not paying attention or :faga::faga:

Instead of insulting me and using emojis like a middle school girl, can you list a few ways in which Trump succeeded in destroying our democracy? Not far-fetched stuff that never amounted to anything, but things that actually destroyed our democracy?

Just like the guy charged with attempted murder of Kavanaugh, success is not required to commit a crime.
Jan. 6 committee has exposed Trump’s lies, indicted the GOP in the process, and utterly destroyed the “big lie” that the 2020 election was stolen. They clearly demonstrated the GOP’s willingness to lie and undermine democracy to override the American voters.
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Eastman relayed in previously undisclosed email that he had awareness of a debate among SCOTUS judges about whether to listen to an election case.
Another Trump lawyer, Ken Chesebro, suggested the justices may be more inclined to weigh in if they had “fear” of “‘wild’ chaos” on Jan 6. He said it five days after Trump’s “wild” tweet about his Jan 6 rally.
The emails are among a tranche the House select committee has, according to people familiar with their work.
It’s unclear what, if anything, Eastman was basing his claims on. Equally striking is Chesebro’s statement about pressuring the justices to agree to hear a case for fear of “wild” chaos on Jan. 6.
“I don’t have the personal insight that John has into the four justices likely to be most upset about what is happening in the various states, who might want to intervene, so I should make it clear that I don’t discount John’s estimate,” Chesebro wrote.
The email exchange took place on Christmas Eve in 2020, five days after Trump’s “Be there. Will be wild!” tweet.
Chesebro email is in some ways more striking, as it’s unclear whether Eastman actually had information, while Chesebro openly described wanting to create a certain climate by which the justices would act.
…provided the committee with crucial evidence about the role played by Mr. Eastman, who conceded during an email exchange with Mr. Jacob that his plan to overturn the election was in “violation” of federal law.’ No wonder Eastman was advised to get a good lawyer.

But Kavanaugh……
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Just like the guy charged with attempted murder of Kavanaugh, success is not required to commit a crime.
Jan. 6 committee has exposed Trump’s lies, indicted the GOP in the process, and utterly destroyed the “big lie” that the 2020 election was stolen. They clearly demonstrated the GOP’s willingness to lie and undermine democracy to override the American voters.
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i agree success isn’t a prerequisite to a crime. But wdmso clearly implied trump “has destroyed” our democracy in some ways.

what are the ways i’m which Trump “has destroyed” ( and that does require some
success) our democracy?

which parts of our democracy were intact in 2016 which trump
destroyed?

I see a threat to SCOTUS that i’ve never seen before in my lifetime, and Trump isnt behind it.

And i’m not saying Trump's a great guy. But our democracy survived him just fine

anything to avoid talking about Bidens results. Anything. And they’re getting worse.
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Eastman relayed in previously undisclosed email that he had awareness of a debate among SCOTUS judges about whether to listen to an election case.
Another Trump lawyer, Ken Chesebro, suggested the justices may be more inclined to weigh in if they had “fear” of “‘wild’ chaos” on Jan 6. He said it five days after Trump’s “wild” tweet about his Jan 6 rally.
The emails are among a tranche the House select committee has, according to people familiar with their work.
It’s unclear what, if anything, Eastman was basing his claims on. Equally striking is Chesebro’s statement about pressuring the justices to agree to hear a case for fear of “wild” chaos on Jan. 6.
“I don’t have the personal insight that John has into the four justices likely to be most upset about what is happening in the various states, who might want to intervene, so I should make it clear that I don’t discount John’s estimate,” Chesebro wrote.
The email exchange took place on Christmas Eve in 2020, five days after Trump’s “Be there. Will be wild!” tweet.
Chesebro email is in some ways more striking, as it’s unclear whether Eastman actually had information, while Chesebro openly described wanting to create a certain climate by which the justices would act.
…provided the committee with crucial evidence about the role played by Mr. Eastman, who conceded during an email exchange with Mr. Jacob that his plan to overturn the election was in “violation” of federal law.’ No wonder Eastman was advised to get a good lawyer.

But Kavanaugh……
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i didn’t say “but” kavanaugh, you did. I can discuss two things at once. you’re the one for whom it must be one or the other for some
reason.
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But wdmso clearly implied trump “has destroyed” our democracy in some ways.

wow you can't see How ? I am shocked

Yet you can see Brett almost got assassinated ?


FYI hearing no evil and speaking no evil and seeing no evil isn't an insult its the current position of the GOP and most of their supporters

But wdmso clearly implied trump “has destroyed” our democracy in some ways.

wow you can't see How ? I am shocked

Yet you can see Brett almost got assassinated ?


FYI hearing no evil and speaking no evil and seeing no evil isn't an insult its the current position of the GOP and most of their supporters

you still won’t specify and pillars of mouse democracy that no longer exist thanks to him. i can only assume
you can’t think of any to list.

the guy at Kavanaughs house got charged with attempted
murder, which is not a charge they ( especially with democrats in charge) apply lightly.

stocks dropping, mortgage rates soaring, housing prices have to drop, almost nothing the north in power. an feel
good about at this point.

who do you think the democrats will run in 2024? that’s a sincere question.
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you still won’t specify and pillars of mouse democracy that no longer exist thanks to him. i can only assume
you can’t think of any to list.

the guy at Kavanaughs house got charged with attempted
murder, which is not a charge they ( especially with democrats in charge) apply lightly.

stocks dropping, mortgage rates soaring, housing prices have to drop, almost nothing the north in power. an feel
good about at this point.

who do you think the democrats will run in 2024? that’s a sincere question.
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Here’s an example for you

New Mexico’s Supreme Court orders county commission to certify vote
The order follows the commission’s refusal to approve primary vote tallies, citing discredited concerns about Dominion machines

This was all promoted and fueled by Donald trumps lies and direct attacks on the legitimacy or nations election system


they refused, citing unsubstantiated concerns about fraud.

Imagine that.


In 2024 I have no clue . I know Harris is a no so is Biden

But just like Republican primaries the far left might pick on who the agree with. Not who can win a general election

Imagine if joe manchin ran that would be interesting
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Here’s an example for you

New Mexico’s Supreme Court orders county commission to certify vote
The order follows the commission’s refusal to approve primary vote tallies, citing discredited concerns about Dominion machines

This was all promoted and fueled by Donald trumps lies and direct attacks on the legitimacy or nations election system


they refused, citing unsubstantiated concerns about fraud.

Imagine that.


In 2024 I have no clue . I know Harris is a no so is Biden

But just like Republican primaries the far left might pick on who the agree with. Not who can win a general election

Imagine if joe manchin ran that would be interesting
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so what part of democracy got destroyed? the court stepped up
and did what they’re supposed to do.

so you actually provided an example of our democracy working exactly as it’s supposed to. checks and balances works. it worked before trump, and per your example, still working.

our democracy works.
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so what part of democracy got destroyed? the court stepped up
and did what they’re supposed to do.

so you actually provided an example of our democracy working exactly as it’s supposed to. checks and balances works. it worked before trump, and per your example, still working.

our democracy works.
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We are finding out just how close it came to not working, and now new evidence is breaking every single day now. Suddenly a lot of people want to come out and tell the truth.

This is the end of the beginning.
Now comes the collapse, and it will come faster than people think.
Everything Trump touched will die.
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We are finding out just how close it came to not working, and now new evidence is breaking every single day now. Suddenly a lot of people want to come out and tell the truth.

This is the end of the beginning.
Now comes the collapse, and it will come faster than people think.
Everything Trump touched will die.
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what do you honestly think is going to happen in november? Blue wave?

Before covid, our economy was as robust as any i’ve seen in my life. Now it’s very, very shaky.

Crime, immigration, drugs, stock market in bear territory, gas prices, food prices, shrinking GDP, 11 million unfilled jobs.

Biden doesn’t own any of that? Zero?
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Has nothing to do with the attempted coup by the Trumplican party
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Has nothing to do with the attempted coup by the Trumplican party
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Watch the hearings from today...blistering.

Has nothing to do with the attempted coup by the Trumplican party
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i agree 100%. Trump has zero business running again. Zip.

Does Biden have anything to do with the horrific state of crime, immigration, drug overdoses, unfilled jobs, tanking stock market, soaring inflation? Has he contributed to any of that?
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so what part of democracy got destroyed? the court stepped up
and did what they’re supposed to do.

so you actually provided an example of our democracy working exactly as it’s supposed to. checks and balances works. it worked before trump, and per your example, still working.

our democracy works.
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so you actually provided an example of our democracy working exactly as it’s supposed to. checks and balances works




You just can't see the bigger Picture can you


Do you Drive your car into a wall at 100MPH So you can provide an example of that seat belts an an Air Bags are working exactly as it’s supposed to?


Days after he mounted a failed attempt to pressure Vice President Mike Pence to overturn the 2020 election, attorney John Eastman asked Rudy Giuliani to help him get on Donald Trump’s list for a presidential pardon, according to an email revealed by the Jan. 6 select committee on Thursday.

“I’ve decided that I should be on the pardon list, if that is still in the works,” Eastman wrote to Giuliani in the email.


Courts should not be involved in elections ... But they should be involved with people trying to steal an election ..:thanks:

so you actually provided an example of our democracy working exactly as it’s supposed to. checks and balances works




You just can't see the bigger Picture can you


Do you Drive your car into a wall at 100MPH So you can provide an example of that seat belts an an Air Bags are working exactly as it’s supposed to?


Days after he mounted a failed attempt to pressure Vice President Mike Pence to overturn the 2020 election, attorney John Eastman asked Rudy Giuliani to help him get on Donald Trump’s list for a presidential pardon, according to an email revealed by the Jan. 6 select committee on Thursday.

“I’ve decided that I should be on the pardon list, if that is still in the works,” Eastman wrote to Giuliani in the email.


Courts should not be involved in elections ... But they should be involved with people trying to steal an election ..:thanks:

if i drive my car 100 mph into a wall and i walk away, i wouldnt then say car safety standards don’t exist anymore. that’s exactly what you did.

Trump tried to undermine our democracy, and our democracy told him to go kick rocks.

We get it, you hate him. But he didn’t destroy our democracy.

If supreme court justices are afraid to decide cases the way they think they should be decided because they fear for their safety, would
that be an example of our democracy being destroyed? I think it would. Yet unless Psaki is lying, Biden is encouraging americans to intimidate judges at their homes.

But that’s ok, because Biden is a democrat.

It’s ok when left wing looks publish their home addresses,,and publish the names of the schools
their kids attend. Because it’s ok when democrats do it.
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i agree 100%. Trump has zero business running again. Zip.

Does Biden have anything to do with the horrific state of crime, immigration, drug overdoses, unfilled jobs, tanking stock market, soaring inflation? Has he contributed to any of that?
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"Tim, I know you and trust you but you're not the one behind the wheel."--VP Pence to his Secret Service detail after evacuating his office, refuses to get into his car.
Gives you a sense what Pence really thought Trump was capable of at that point on January 6th
Yet you’ll spin it into border, crime, drugs and inflation
And you expect us to fall for that???.
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"Tim, I know you and trust you but you're not the one behind the wheel."--VP Pence to his Secret Service detail after evacuating his office, refuses to get into his car.
Gives you a sense what Pence really thought Trump was capable of at that point on January 6th
Yet you’ll spin it into border, crime, drugs and inflation
And you expect us to fall for that???.
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i didn’t spin anything. i armutted trump has no business running again.

i know why i believe what i believe. That’s why, unlike you, i’m happy to respond to questions from the other side, happy to admit when you’re right.

this thread is about Biden, but you don’t want to talk honestly about him because it’s a losing proposition for you, so you, not me, pivoted to another topic.


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Yesterday’s hearing has made clear again that:

1. Donald Trump is a corrupt, unfit criminal who did all he could to overthrow an American election. There’s no debating this.

2. Donald Trump remains the leader of the Republican Party & the 2024 GOP nomination is his if he wants it.
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Yesterday’s hearing has made clear again that:

1. Donald Trump is a corrupt, unfit criminal who did all he could to overthrow an American election. There’s no debating this.

2. Donald Trump remains the leader of the Republican Party & the 2024 GOP nomination is his if he wants it.
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agreed ( though I’m voting for Trump if he’s the GOP nominee).

and 3, Joe Biden is overseeing one policy disaster after another.

do you blame Biden for any of the mess we’re going through right now?
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agreed.

and 3, Joe Biden is overseeing one policy disaster after another.

do you blame Biden for any of the mess we’re going through right now?
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Jim please name one policy’s change responsible for what’s happening here and around the Globe


Yet

Publix heiress paid Kimberly Guilfoyle’s $60,000 speaking fee on Jan. 6. For 3 minutes

The funds were directed to Donald Trump Jr.'s fiancee through Turning Point Action, a nonprofit run by Charlie Kirk

Their are 2 things happening in America one was planned and organized.. the other happens on a cycle and no individual plans or organized it! What’s the saying what go’s up must come down ..

To many Americans and companies have gotten to think low interest rates and free money were here to Stay . and the swing from employers retirement plans to 401k and other retirement investments . Mantra of personal responsibility. These normal people are now paying the price. Upset at the government who had nothing to do with them leaving all their money in high risk investment. At the suggestion of people making money off them with no fiduciary intent

I know several people who kept all their eggs in high risk and now a year from retirement. Are seeing a 200 to 300k hit in their plans .. they were all market experts when they were seeing big returns.. now it’s Biden’s fault .. lol
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Jim please name one policy’s change responsible for what’s happening here and around the Globe


Yet

Publix heiress paid Kimberly Guilfoyle’s $60,000 speaking fee on Jan. 6. For 3 minutes

The funds were directed to Donald Trump Jr.'s fiancee through Turning Point Action, a nonprofit run by Charlie Kirk

Their are 2 things happening in America one was planned and organized.. the other happens on a cycle and no individual plans or organized it! What’s the saying what go’s up must come down ..

To many Americans and companies have gotten to think low interest rates and free money were here to Stay . and the swing from employers retirement plans to 401k and other retirement investments . Mantra of personal responsibility. These normal people are now paying the price. Upset at the government who had nothing to do with them leaving all their money in high risk investment. At the suggestion of people making money off them with no fiduciary intent

I know several people who kept all their eggs in high risk and now a year from retirement. Are seeing a 200 to 300k hit in their plans .. they were all market experts when they were seeing big returns.. now it’s Biden’s fault .. lol
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Biden announced we were going to end fossil fuels, Biden ended the pipeline ( oil pricing is largely a futures pricing model, so perception matters), Biden spent trillions and trillions, Biden bungled the withdrawal from afghanistan at the end, Buden out an imbecile ( Harris) in charge of the border, liberal DAs are cording violent criminals, liberals
are villifying police, liberals say we can choose to be whichever if the 50 genders we’d like to be, liberals say concerned parents are domestic terrorists, is that enough?

so in your mind, Biden has fine absolutely nothing to exacerbate these problems? not one bit?

good news is, in november we get to see which one of us america agrees with. I for one, can’t wait. You?
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I know several people who kept all their eggs in high risk and now a year from retirement. Are seeing a 200 to 300k hit in their plans .. they were all market experts when they were seeing big returns.. now it’s Biden’s fault .. lol
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it’s not all Bidens fault, but some of it’s his fault, and all of it’s his problem.

You blamed Bush for the subprime
mortgage crisis, you blamed Trump for covid. Fine. Now it’s your turn to be in the receiving end of that logic. Do you like it?
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Biden announced we were going to end fossil fuels, Biden ended the pipeline ( oil pricing is largely a futures pricing model, so perception matters), Biden spent trillions and trillions, Biden bungled the withdrawal from afghanistan at the end, Buden out an imbecile ( Harris) in charge of the border, liberal DAs are cording violent criminals, liberals
are villifying police, liberals say we can choose to be whichever if the 50 genders we’d like to be, liberals say concerned parents are domestic terrorists, is that enough?

so in your mind, Biden has fine absolutely nothing to exacerbate these problems? not one bit?

good news is, in november we get to see which one of us america agrees with. I for one, can’t wait. You?
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Jim never paints with a broad brush
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