Originally Posted by spence (Post 1204064)

Incomplete information.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1204010)

and which candidate, if they win, is likely to support more
lockdowns.

you’re saying fear of lockdowns is a rejection of trump? trump
wants lockdowns, not biden?

that’s some serious logic there boys. trump, not biden, is responsible for fear of lockdowns one week ahead of an election biden is projected to win. trump is calling for opening things up, while
biden is telling people to prepare for a dark winter. Despite all that, you associate lockdowns with trump. incredible.

have you guys all been painting inside with the windows shut? you need to open the windows a crack.
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Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1204066)

Then please provide the information I missed, so that we can have the complete picture.

Even Chris Cuomo attacked Pelosi for this. But you can't. You're more extremely partisan than he is. Kudos. But you don't have a side, no sir.

Originally Posted by spence (Post 1204069)

The resistance to travel bans was mostly concern that the Trump administration would use them to enact immigration policy that was anti-Muslim. The Dems weren't trying to reverse the travel restrictions from China.

Originally Posted by wdmso (Post 1204083)

seem jim forgets we allowed over 1000 plus infected people back into the country with out testing them from all over the world and released them into airports to travel home spreading covid as they went ... not sure what good a travel ban is if you never tested or tracked returning travelers?

Its like saying dont be mad at we or hold me accountable I locked the front door!!! but you left all the windows and back door open

Originally Posted by Got Stripers (Post 1204084)

The partial travel ban is Jim’s fallback.

Originally Posted by wdmso (Post 1204083)

seem jim forgets we allowed over 1000 plus infected people back into the country with out testing them from all over the world and released them into airports to travel home spreading covid as they went ... not sure what good a travel ban is if you never tested or tracked returning travelers?

Its like saying dont be mad at we or hold me accountable I locked the front door!!! but you left all the windows and back door open

Originally Posted by Pete F. (Post 1204047)

Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1204052)

right the timing was a coincidence

and pelosi trying to pass a bill which would
have reversed the travel ban, what do you call that?

and biden waiting until april
to say that travel bans were a good idea? wasn’t that way too late?
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Originally Posted by Pete F. (Post 1204062)

Janurary 27th 2020 OpEd by Biden in USA Today

The possibility of a pandemic is a challenge Donald Trump is unqualified to handle as president. I remember how Trump sought to stoke fear and stigma during the 2014 Ebola epidemic. He called President Barack Obama a “dope” and “incompetent” and railed against the evidence-based response our administration put in place — which quelled the crisis and saved hundreds of thousands of lives — in favor of reactionary travel bans that would only have made things worse. He advocated abandoning exposed and infected American citizens rather than bringing them home for treatment.

Trump’s demonstrated failures of judgment and his repeated rejection of science make him the worst possible person to lead our country through a global health challenge.

The outbreak of a new coronavirus, which has already infected more than 2,700 people and killed over 80 in China, will get worse before it gets better. Cases have been confirmed in a dozen countries, with at least five in the United States. There will likely be more.

Diseases don't stop at borders or walls
The State Department has scheduled an evacuation flight and advised Americans against traveling to Hubei province, the epicenter of the outbreak, and is evacuating non-essential personnel.

Trump has blithely tweeted that “it will all work out well.” Yet the steps he has taken as president have only weakened our capacity to respond.

Trump has rolled back much of the progress President Obama and I made to strengthen global health security. He proposed draconian cuts to the National Institutes of Health (NIH), the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the Agency for International Development — the very agencies we need to fight this outbreak and prevent future ones.

He dismissed the top White House official in charge of global health security and dismantled the entire team. And he has treated with utmost contempt institutions that facilitate international cooperation, thus undermining the global efforts that keep us safe from pandemics and biological attacks.

To be blunt, I am concerned that the Trump administration’s shortsighted policies have left us unprepared for a dangerous epidemic that will come sooner or later.

Pandemic diseases are a prime example of why international cooperation is a requirement of leadership in 2020. Diseases do not stop at borders. They cannot be thwarted by building a wall. We cannot keep ourselves safe without helping to keep others safe as well and without enlisting the help of other nations in return. And here’s the truth — the United States must step forward to lead these efforts, because no other nation has the resources, the reach or the relationships to marshal an effective international response.

That’s how we broke the infection curve on Ebola. In September 2014, CDC projections warned that over 1 million people could be infected if we failed to act. By February 2015, thanks to the leadership of our administration, the number of new Ebola cases was fewer than 400. A few months later, the epidemic was essentially extinguished.

I will uphold science, not fiction or fear
We brought the world together behind a response that only the United States could mobilize — including dispatching our military on a limited mission to help build the urgent infrastructure necessary to coordinate a massive global public health response, deploying American disaster assistance response teams to Africa, unleashing the NIH to help spur the discovery of new treatments and vaccines, protecting our citizens from potential cases of Ebola in the USA, and harnessing civilian expertise from the CDC at home and abroad.

We acted over the chorus of uninformed objections from critics like Donald Trump, and more than 60 countries followed our lead, contributing over $2 billion, thousands of health professionals and personnel, and other critical resources like personal protective equipment. Just as important, we strengthened our focus on preparing for the next crisis.

That’s the kind of leadership a moment like this demands — a leadership Trump could never deliver.

As president, I will reassert U.S. leadership in global health security. My policies will always uphold science, not fiction or fearmongering. I will ask Congress to beef up the Public Health Emergency Fund and give me the power to use the Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act to declare a disaster if an infectious disease threat merits it.

I will also renew funding — set to expire in May — for the nationwide network of hospitals that can isolate and treat people with infectious diseases, and fully fund the Global Health Security Agenda so the world is ready for the next outbreak. And I will rebuild public trust, make sure we have dedicated resources to help us respond to crises quickly, and better harness the capabilities of the private sector to protect the American people. Our national security requires nothing less.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1204066)

Then please provide the information I missed, so that we can have the complete picture.

Even Chris Cuomo attacked Pelosi for this. But you can't. You're more extremely partisan than he is. Kudos. But you don't have a side, no sir.

Originally Posted by Pete F. (Post 1204081)

The No Ban Act had a narrow exception that allows the president to institute travel bans during public health crises, including the current pandemic

Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1204087)

I don't forget that. I never, ever said that his travel ban was effective. What I said, is that Biden said the ban was hysterical and xenophobic.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1204089)

Whew. I'm not saying the travel ban was good. I'm saying that if liberals said then that it was an overreaction, they can't say today that Trump should have done more. You can't have it both ways.

Going too fast for you?

Originally Posted by Pete F. (Post 1204090)

I think you are going too fast for yourself

Biden dealt with Covita's hysterical xenophobic response during the Ebola pandemic. It's all in the public record including Covita's tweets.
Nobody said a travel ban was an overreaction, just that it alone was not the correct response and apparently you agree.
It had as much effect as designating one part of the pool as the urination area.
If you want to see a detailed pandemic plan I linked it several posts ago, Covita literally threw his in the garbage.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1204091)

"Biden dealt with Covita's hysterical xenophobic response during the Ebola pandemic. It's all in the public record including Covita's tweets."

Thw day Trump announced his travel restrictions, Biden said Trump was hysterical and xenophobic. Also public record. Right?

"Nobody said a travel ban was an overreaction"

Biden said it was "hysterical".

In mid-January, the WHO said there was no evidence of human-to-human transmission.

Nancy Pelosi on Feb 24: "but we do want to say to people ‘Come to Chinatown, here we are — we're, again, careful, safe — and come join us.'”

Bill Diblasio in March 2: ""Since I’m encouraging New Yorkers to go on with your lives + get out on the town despite Coronavirus"

Anderson Cooper on March 2: "The flu right now is far deadlier," Cooper says. "So if you’re freaked out at all about the coronavirus you should be more concerned about the flu"

Mar.9 - Bernie Sanders tells Foxnews he would not close our borders in response to the virus

Dr Fauci on Jan 26: "The American people should not be worried or frightened by this. It's a very, very low risk to the United States," Fauci says on The CATS Roundtable. "It isn't something that the American public needs to worry about or be frightened about."

Feb. 11 - Ron Klein, Biden campaign top coronovirus advisor: "coronavirus won't be a "serious pandemic."

Feb. 13 - Ron Klein, Biden campaign top coronovirus advisor: "We don’t have a #COVIDー19 epidemic in the US but we are starting to see a fear epidemic. Kudos to @NYCMayor (and others) for standing against that."

Nah, no one was downplaying it in the winter. Nope! Only Trump somehow got it wrong. All the democrats knew exactly what was coming. Right, Pete?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fro...vent-aged-well

Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1204091)

"Biden dealt with Covita's hysterical xenophobic response during the Ebola pandemic. It's all in the public record including Covita's tweets."

Thw day Trump announced his travel restrictions, Biden said Trump was hysterical and xenophobic. Also public record. Right?

Here is what Biden said "We have, right now, a crisis with the coronavirus. This is no time for Donald Trump's record of hysteria and xenophobia - hysterical xenophobia - and fearmongering to lead the way instead of science."

"Nobody said a travel ban was an overreaction"

Biden said it was "hysterical".

See above

In mid-January, the WHO said there was no evidence of human-to-human transmission.

President Trump’s head popped up during his top-secret intelligence briefing in the Oval Office on Jan. 28 when the discussion turned to the coronavirus outbreak in China.

“This will be the biggest national security threat you face in your presidency,” national security adviser Robert C. O’Brien told Trump, “This is going to be the roughest thing you face.”

Matthew Pottinger, the deputy national security adviser, agreed. He told the president that after reaching contacts in China, it was evident that the world faced a health emergency on par with the flu pandemic of 1918, which killed an estimated 50 million people worldwide.

Ten days later, Trump called Woodward and revealed that he thought the situation was far more dire than what he had been saying publicly.

“You just breathe the air and that’s how it’s passed,” Trump said in a Feb. 7 call. “And so that’s a very tricky one. That’s a very delicate one. It’s also more deadly than even your strenuous flus.”
“This is deadly stuff,” the president repeated for emphasis.

In a Feb. 7 interview, when asked what Chinese President Xi Jinping
told him about the virus, Trump says, “This is deadly stuff.”

At that time, Trump was telling the nation that the virus was no worse than a seasonal flu, predicting it would soon disappear and insisting that the U.S. government had it totally under control. It would be several weeks before he would publicly acknowledge that the virus was no ordinary flu and that it could be transmitted through the air.

When on Feb. 7th Covita told Bob Woodward how dangerous it was, maybe if he had said that to others things would have been different.

It was not until March 11th that he spoke "My fellow Americans: Tonight, I want to speak with you about our nation's unprecedented response to the coronavirus outbreak that started in China and is now spreading throughout the world."

Nancy Pelosi on Feb 24: "but we do want to say to people ‘Come to Chinatown, here we are — we're, again, careful, safe — and come join us.'”

Bill Diblasio in March 2: ""Since I’m encouraging New Yorkers to go on with your lives + get out on the town despite Coronavirus"

Anderson Cooper on March 2: "The flu right now is far deadlier," Cooper says. "So if you’re freaked out at all about the coronavirus you should be more concerned about the flu"

Mar.9 - Bernie Sanders tells Foxnews he would not close our borders in response to the virus

Dr Fauci on Jan 26: "The American people should not be worried or frightened by this. It's a very, very low risk to the United States," Fauci says on The CATS Roundtable. "It isn't something that the American public needs to worry about or be frightened about."

Feb. 11 - Ron Klein, Biden campaign top coronovirus advisor: "coronavirus won't be a "serious pandemic."

Feb. 13 - Ron Klein, Biden campaign top coronovirus advisor: "We don’t have a #COVIDー19 epidemic in the US but we are starting to see a fear epidemic. Kudos to @NYCMayor (and others) for standing against that."

Oddly enough while those people with the exception of Fauci in January, were saying things, Covita was keeping it on the down low..........

Nah, no one was downplaying it in the winter. Nope! Only Trump somehow got it wrong. All the democrats knew exactly what was coming. Right, Pete?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fro...vent-aged-well

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND (Post 1204092)

Simple answer. Trump was right on the partial travel ban, maybe it should have gone further

The liberals listed were wrong at the times you quoted.

This was in the first months of this #^&#^&#^&#^&. We know from Woodward's recording Trump knew early, this had the potential to be bad. How much did the mayors and governors know in Feb/early March? I don't know. We know Trump knew it could be bad.

The difference is, the others (non-Trump) have adjusted course as we learned more about this thing. Trump has basically not. We are at all time daily highs on an upwards sloped and we have 'turned the corner'? (I don't love the SNL debate-stuff right now but Alec Baldwin as Trump had a good line about how this isn't a second wave because it never went back down). He is also out there making fun of mask and mask wearers. Yes there is still reasonable debate on that Jim, but the majority/plurality/consensus is that it seems to help limit spread.

USA Today even had an analysis that following Trump campaign rally's/events brought, cases have increased higher in those counties than elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1204088)

My fallback, is that when liberals say he didn't do enough, I'll point out that back then, they said he did too much.

The travel ban, is completely irrelevant. What is relevant, is that liberals said it was an overreaction. The same people who said then that he overreacted, now say he didn't do enough.

That logic may make sense to you, seeing as you somehow conclude that the economy is now at its worst point since the great depression. To non-deranged people, that logic is, to put it politely, lacking.

Tell me more! What stocks should we buy this year? Share your economic knowledge with all of us, don't hoard it to yourself.

You sure showed me...

Originally Posted by Got Stripers (Post 1204097)

If you don't think the messaging from the top, especially in light of what he knew (woodward tapes are very telling), then you are blind.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1204099)

If



Cuomo wasn't a victim of early-days ignorance. By the time he issued his genocidal order, the entire world knew that the elderly were the most at risk. That was well known when that Mensa candidate deliberately sent that disease to nursing homes. But none of you are critical of him. And despite what you say, he was and is in charge of his state.r.

Originally Posted by Got Stripers (Post 1203806)

To follow up on this three year view you seem to have, you can’t judge an administration on one, two or three years; it’s a four year term remember. So tax cuts that may have helped some have been spent to survive. We now have the highest unemployment and worse economy since the Great Depression. Vets expressing their disgust of numerous comments by Trump not sure he is viewed as positively by veterans as you think. Schools for the most part are closed and many if opened are closing again due to covid outbreaks. Report cards are for the entire term Jim, so grades aren’t passing, in fact they are failing grades but keep waving your Trump 2020 flag.

Originally Posted by detbuch (Post 1204124)

You want to make that fourth year to be considered simply the flow of a four year term. And that what happened economically in that final year was Trump's doing. You ignore what happened to the world economy during that time. All the other countries, including those you credit with handling the pandemic better than Trump, also had their economies tank, most even worse than ours. And now, still part of that fourth year, we are recovering from this worldwide economic disaster much faster and better than expected--a record 33% rise in GDP in the 3rd quarter and the unemployment rate, rather than rising dramatically as predicted, went down to almost half of what it was, and we have a V shaped recovery that signals a rapid recovery. As well, a vaccine is coming way sooner than it normally would, which would certainly help speed up the defeat of the virus.

That is not a failing grade. Nor were the first three years.

Originally Posted by Got Stripers (Post 1204168)

Well Trump should be a shoe in then, you guys on the right have nothing to worry about.
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Originally Posted by wdmso (Post 1204105)

I love how you always fall back on the nursing home argument.

Nursing Homes & Assisted Living Facilities Account for 42% of COVID-19 Deaths

WHO do you blame for deaths not in New York


Ps At issue is a directive that Mr. Cuomo’s administration delivered in late March, effectively ordering nursing homes to accept coronavirus patients from hospitals.

The goal was to free up hospitals’ beds at a time when those facilities were being overwhelmed by fresh waves of virus patients

Yes Jim it was a bad decision but to suggest to suggest malicious intent.

Seems your hate is miss directed Trumps killed 200k by your own logic if i recall you blamed obama for for 12k deaths when you thought covid was BS like Trump .. now you acting all righteous its comical

Originally Posted by Got Stripers (Post 1204097)

The "liberals" you bitch about reacted early on in a negative way were NOT in charge .

Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1204191)

Governor Cuomo was not the chief executive of the state of NY in January?

What the f^ck are you talking about?

Originally Posted by Got Stripers (Post 1204208)

Reacting to comments Pelosi made, pretty sure she isn't in charge of the white house or NY.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1204240)

You didn't limit your remark to Pelosi. You said the liberals I attacked weren't in charge.

Was Gov Cuomo the chief executive of NY when he ordered nursing homes to admit covid-positive residents?

What did Trump force people to do, which caused more deaths, than what Cuomo forced nursing homes to do?

HAVE FUN ANSERING THAT.

Originally Posted by Got Stripers (Post 1204245)

I’m expected to just live with the virus.

Originally Posted by Got Stripers (Post 1204245)

Have fun answering why the messaging still to this day, with record numbers of new cases, continues to be outright lies and dangerous. Cuomo was presented with extreme conditions and overloaded hospitals and since I am not educated on all the details and parameters he had to consider, all I can say is I hope he had little choice. You keep looking for a win on this Covid issue, what could poor Trump have done differently, good god Jim how about NEVER lying to the American public. He has done so from the start (5 soon to be zero) and continues today, my arse we have turned the corner; I’m expected to just live with the virus and his ineptitude.

Originally Posted by Pete F. (Post 1204249)

Today in one speech, Covita has:
- - Falsely claimed we're turning some corner
-:

Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1204257)

You want to say he lied, fine, it's fair to hold him accountable. But tell me how his lies caused deaths?

"Cuomo was presented with extreme conditions and overloaded hospitals"

WHAT? The feds sent a massive hospital ship to NYC which wasn't needed. The feds converted the Javitts center to a hospital, and it wasn't needed.

What the actual f*ck are you talking about?

"I am not educated on all the details and parameters he had to consider"

No kidding! Yet with incomplete knowledge, you conclude that Cuomo did nothing wrong, and that Trump has 200,000 deaths on his hands.

Originally Posted by Got Stripers (Post 1204260)

Here Jim see if you can understand this, I don’t care to research want happened in NY,.