MAKAI I love your last sentence ..........toooo bad there are far tooooooomany that believe that ,s what,s lifes about &&&&&&&&& ride it all their lives :af:

Priority #1 right now should be what is best for the fish population... PERIOD.

Those who vehemently oppose the idea that bass stocks are in trouble most likely have views that are motivated by money.
We are playing Russian Roulette with an entire fishery.
If the bass population never collapsed in the past, then maybe you can stick to a "no way... never gonna happen" mentality... but it did, and it seems that some just refuse to accept the idea that bass are in any trouble at all.

The charters are a much smaller segment of the overall population of Recreational fishing.
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So... That has no impact on my argument. Unless they are statistically insignificant. Which I do not believe they are.

They are statistically less significant. And once again, in my area, which is the Cape Cod Bay ,Racepoint area, two at 33" will result in less fish being killed. Significantly less. IMO
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Absolutely no doubt.
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Bottom line there was a public comment period 95% of those who commented decided that a 1@ option would be the best option for recreational anglers. If charter fares are recreational anglers they should abide by those rules. The opportunity to express an opinion otherwise was prior to x date. Now that the board has made a decision the state managers are saying we have heard from many voices that for hire vessels will be hurting if they can not continue with 2 per fare??? Let's explore CE. Ok so where were these voices and why were they not on record. It wasn't even close. Now we are dealing with this end around Monday Morning QB BS. The masses that followed the guidelines spoke their mind and supported one stance or another are now being told hey eff you we are going to do what the hell we feel like. If charter fares want a different limit then they need to be classified as something other than recreational. Their fish need to be counted and the numbers need to be applied to the overall quota in a different manner.

For every guy that is running two a day three a day trips with 6-10 fares there is also the big fleets running two or three with 3 mates a captain and 50 heads. It adds up to a s$&t ton of dead fish. Not saying shore and boat anglers don't take a ton either. I am simply saying everyone needs to play by the same rules if they are to be considered the same type of angler.
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i read a update in a paper this morning but I don,t know how to transfer it ..:fishslap:

WHAT THE F(**(&^ !!!!!

Where's Clammer????? No way would he write a clear sentence.... NO WAY.

The spend more catch less agument above is exactly why the charter guys want customers to have to opportunity to catch 2 Fish I suspect......

There is Rec and Charter guys and then there is comm guys (many of which go back to Rec or Charter when Comm season is over) there are some great Comm guys and some that are horrible...there are some great rec guys and some that couldn't catch a cold...anyone can go get a charter license, but not all of them can be consistently good..I have many rec friends that can outfish charters...in fact, i have a few rec friends who get calls from Chaters asking them where the fish are....the good ones stay in business for the moat part but the bad ones don't, they just circulate through and try to make it, then drop out for a new one to come along...especially bass charter where you don't need a huge boat way offshore...

Off topic I know....but I just think we need to be cautious when making big generalizations with facts....
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From 1900-2010, freshwater fish species in North America went extinct at a rate 877 times faster than the rate found in the fossil record, while estimates indicate the rate may double between now and 2050. The reason is spelled very simply MAN.

What's happening in the Marine environment?
As of January 2011, 113 marine species and sub-species were formally listed as being at risk or vulnerable to extinction, including:
56 birds
37 fish
15 mammals
3 invertebrates
2 reptiles

Pretty much the same for marine, spelled the same too; MAN.

Hope stripers don't go the way of the doto bird.

Just some random thoughts; take them for what they're worth (not much?).

I was mate on a charter boat during the mid-80's. We did not target striped bass, but we did catch a lot of blues. The charters usually had us keep all of the fish, but when we got back to the dock, they did not want all of the fillet. This makes sense, right?

Same charter boat; we spent 6 weeks primarily targeting giant bluefin, per customer request. They would sign a release before the trip that the boat would own any fish caught. Fishing for no meat, just for the opportunity to battle a bluefin. Want to know how many days we went out and did not even have a bait hit? And the customers always tipped me, fish or no fish. I guess they had a good time spending their cash and catching nothing.

Limits are for honest anglers. Look through the police reports (RISAA newsletter makes it easy) and look at all of the dishonest anglers that are unlicensed keeping a variety of undersized fish and more than their limits. Do you think that they even care that there is a regulation?

Why not explore making recreational fisherman (that are honest!) be required to have a tag to kill a bass and bring it home? You'd have to buy them at the beginning of the year, when all of us honest guys buy our fishing licenses. I'd probably buy 2 for my family of 3. If I had a desire to eat more than that, I could buy fish at the market. If I didn't keep 2 fish during the year, oh well. More money in that "earmarked" fund for the state that gets funnelled into the general budget. At least with this kind of system, we could start to get an idea of how many dead fish honest fishermen would like to bring home in a year.

Yeah, I know. There is no budget to enforce any of it. I have encountered 2 environmental officers in the past 5 years. One on an October night at a popular beach location and once on a rainy October day at a Connecticut launch ramp. I had not kept any fish on either occasion, so they didn't have much to check.

Beat me up as you wish. I have thick skin.

That may be true but they are:

1. More mobile as they are in boats and

2. More skilled at what they do because it's their business and they have the best technology available.

Therefore I don't buy the statement that they have less effect on the fish populations. There were more 50# fish caught at the Block this summer by the charters than all of the Surfcasters have caught in the last 40 years.

Then they should abide by the 1@28 rec limit. If your 2 fish loophole passes, whats to stop anybody that wants to keep 2 fish illegally from saying they were on a charter if caught?

[QUOTE=Got Stripers;1059570]From 1900-2010, freshwater fish species in North America went extinct at a rate 877 times faster than the rate found in the fossil record, while estimates indicate the rate may double between now and 2050. The reason is spelled very simply MAN.

What's happening in the Marine environment?
As of January 2011, 113 marine species and sub-species were formally listed as being at risk or vulnerable to extinction, including:
56 birds
37 fish
15 mammals
3 invertebrates
2 reptiles

Pretty much the same for marine, spelled the same too; MAN.

Hope stripers don't go the way of the doto bird.[/

Man that's a reach
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If recreational regs are 1@28" and you are a recreational angler before you step on a charter boat, then you are still a recreational angler once aboard a charter boat.
A charter boat is not a magic portal to special rules that allow you to still kill 2 fish.
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This will blow your mind then. They don't need a license either .
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I know... Because they are covered under the umbrella of the boat
. A license doesnt kill or save fish, so If you are equating the license special treatment to the reg. special treatment, they are not equal.
Why? Because a license is not going to result in more or less dead fish. I made my point before that i dont care about dollars of ANY kind in this equation ( be it state license fees, charter income, whatever). All i care about right now is protecting fish that have no option to protect themselves from being wiped out.

Do you think the 2nd dead bass on board gives a crap if the guy has a license or not? The extra fish getting killed is the issue... I dont care one bit if i paid for a license and another guy didnt... I care about protecting bass right now.
Its all about the fish...

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And there you have it ! That is where we differ . I think people can also be figured into the equation .
We are not talking about White Rhino here .
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People can be figured in as population shows signs of recovery Sorry if that sounds cold, but 1@28" still allows you to operate. Adjusting in creative ways to sell the experience is not that hard.
If we have a 1980's repeat, people will be the only factor in the fishless equation.
Simply ignoring the decline and saying " aaahhhhh i'm not convinced there is even a problem" just seems crazy to me. Im not a charter captain, but i was able to think of half a dozen very creative and enticing marketing strategies that i would implement that would draw customers attention as well as my competitors. As a charter business, you need to know how to adjust to catch customers... Not just fish.
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I think 1 @ 28" or greater achieves that balance
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Buckman, we are just not going to agree, and i accept that. I respect your opinion, and i just pray that years from now you were right and i was wrong.
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It's been a spirited debate . I think fish will be just fine .
25% should help immensely.
🍻
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It's still just another commercial grab for more of the resourse at the expense of the fish.No matter what the numbers there.s always some group trying to grab more no matter how bad the fishing gets. Why do some of you guys think they're working to shut down recreational and part of commercial cod fishing. Nobody stopped till it was too late.We are the problem as we don't work together till it's too late. 1 fish 2 fish 3 fish it don't matter. The fishing is gettin worse no matter how deep the hole you stick your head in. Gamefish will help. Cut backs n limits will help. But we need to stop cheating to get more at the expense of the fish.

Cod were doing just fine on Stellwagen Bank until Jane Lubchenco and her brilliant Catch Share system allowed draggers to completely rape the bank of Cod...that is a fact. It wasn't the charters and wasn't the recs, it wasn't rod and reel...it was the draggers and although I don't have a charter business those charter guys and us rec guys got a bum deal with that...so all the blame for Cod is not on Recs or Charters, it's on mid water trawlers, sector boats etc being allowed by the government to come up here and wipe out Cod...many of these boats aren't even from anywhere near hear and their ports are far away...blame catch shares, Jane Lubchenco and the government for. that...
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Catch shares sounded really good on paper. Far less discards. But I see why it failed.
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Its doing a number on the winter Fluke off of RI .we are starting to see the results :soon:

Buckman, I also respect your opinion but I too do not think the bass are going to be fine and it's not about us. It's really about what's happening, as we speak, at Oregon Inlet. Chesapeake Bay, Virginia with trawlers.
Hell, I'm 67 and have caught more fish than I probably had a right to. I want to save the fish for the future generations but I really don't have much hope. For every fish we C&R in New England some a ssh ole in Virginia or DE or NC kills.

Why do some of you guys think they're working to shut down recreational and part of commercial cod fishing. Nobody stopped till it was too late.We are the problem as we don't work together till it's too late.


Is this a joke ???

So what will be different. Two fish will push us further towards a collapse. Even the scientists who will ultimately have to review the "state" requests will tell you the original 2 @ 28" has only a 50 % chance of success. The charter, headboats and private boaters kill most of the breeders and there's no denying that. So I ask..If you were standing in a firing squad lineup with Joe Blow, just 2 of you, and the shooter had one round, would you like your chances ? Stop the political and greed based BS and get back to being concerned with the resource. No one is going to pay $600 to go bluefishing or chasing fluke on a sustained basis.

Sorry ..that 1@28".

What he said. After the bass are all gone, I guess you could take them cod fishing, oh, wait…….

It's just not that bad . Geeez
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So when I sat in at a bunch of the ASMFC dog and pony meetings the last few years, I wish I had your anecdotal evidence to shoot back at their scientist.
Where they get off telling us the female spawning biomass coast wide has been declining since 2006 is beyond me. And all these hypoxic zones the fingerling fish are having great difficulty dealing with is flawed science at best.
Nobody mistrust the government more than I, So I pray all your evidence to the contrary is true and the halcyon days of yore are just around the corner.
Because I sure miss those times !
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that's the biggest bummer of all this from my point of view....

I'm 49 years old-

I just hope like hell (!) the fishery recovers before I get too old to enjoy it again......

I cant stand winter, snow and cold weather.

when people ask me why I dont just move down south,
the one and only thing that keeps me in the Northeast
is my love for surfcasting for striped bass and everything that
goes with the outing.
If the striped bass fishery ever collapses, as it did in the 80's
I would seriously consider moving down south in pursuit of
warmer temps and a wider range of fishing opportunities
( at least when I retire)

i don't get the new math.....more equals less.

just thinking out loud here ( dangerous thing to do ). what if the charters sports got to keep 2 @ 28" but the capt and crew can't keep and/or sell any? the charters get their clients and the clients get their meat going by their argument for 2@ 28".

I am retired and there are only a couple of things keeping me around here. My fishing friends, family and Stripers.

It's not one of the available options.
According to the asmfc's math in order to keep above the 25% reduction, with 2 fish, the minimum size must increase to 33"
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y25...psbi5frcos.png