If the numbers are correct for the 2011 year class, this option while allowing for harvest of 2 fish per angler does offer some protection of the 2011yoy. But it does allow for the same amount of removal of fish larger than 33", which includes the current SSB.

Just out of curiosity, those that fished the cow party at block, was that body of fish predominantly 40# fish? 50#s? 60#s? Smaller? Mixed sizes? Similar sizes? Mostly one size with few larger ones mixed in?
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That might be part of their reasoning? Or fuzzy math?
Going to 33" totally removes all year classes under that size from the equasion
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Just a few comments:

Science tells us that, although bass populations have declined from their peak, the stock is in pretty good shape, they are not overfished and overfishing is not occurring.

It also tells us that the decline in populations is due to poor spawning success which totally related to the weather (not global warming), which we cannot control.

History shows us that when we get weather that is favors spawning success, the stock will recover.

I also agree that conservational equivalency, as it was used by the ASMFC is only a valid statistic when applied to the general population of recreational anglers. Theoretically there should be a conservational equivalency for the charter/party subgroup of recreational fishermen but we have no idea of what those numbers would be.

The charter/party fleet has a history of using conservational equivalent regs. for other species, scup, sea bass and tautog immediately come to mind.

So if any state adopts separate regs for the charter/party fleet, they should be restrictive enough to insure that they are the conservational equivalent of a 25% reduction. Maybe 2 at 36inches? I don't think the tables the ASMFC provided give us a true idea of what a 25% reduction for the carter/party fleet would be. All of the states can enact regs that are stricter that the ASMFC guidlines.

thats how this whole discussion got started in the first place.... the charter guys are pushing for MORE fish than the everyday, joe-taxpayer angler.... and they are pressuring their states' delegations to give them more.

not very likely that any state is gong to enact more restrictive regs in the face of that kinda pressure, right??

No, that is not correct. 1st of all it has nothing to do with RI's delegation to the ASMFC, its up to Janet Coit as head of the DEM.

2nd, Its my understanding that they are NOT pushing for more fish, just different regs for the charter/party fleet.

Charter/party boats already have different regs for scup, sea bass and tautog and it seems to work out pretty well. I don't see why it couldn't work for stripers, but I don't think that 2 at 33 is the right number.

Different regs for tuna also
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Public hearings have been scheduled
1. Striped Bass Management (322 CMR 6.07)

a. Commercial

i. To comply with recent changes to the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission’s Striped Bass Management Plan, DMF will reduce the commercial quota by 25%; and

ii. To address the unlawful sale of striped bass retained on closed fishing days, require commercial fishermen fishing on closed fishing days to mark striped bass that meet the commercial minimum size by removing a pectoral fin and prohibit fish with a pectoral fin removed from entering commerce.

b. Recreational

i. To comply with recent changes to the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission’s Striped Bass Management Plan, DMF is proposing to reduce the bag limit from 2-fish to 1-fish and maintain the existing 28-inch recreational minimum size; and

ii. Accept comment on adopting alternative measures for anglers onboard for-hire vessels to allow a 2-fish bag limit at a higher minimum size. Options include:

1. 2-fish bag limit with a 33-inch minimum size; or

2. 2-fish bag limit with one fish between 28 and 36 inches and one fish of at least 40 inches.



Public Hearing Schedule




Start Time: 10:00 AM

Wednesday, January 14, 2015

Katharine Cornell Theater

Tisbury Town Hall

54 Spring Street

Tisbury, MA 02568



Start Time: 6:00 PM

Wednesday, January 14, 2015

Admiral’s Hall

Massachusetts Maritime Academy

101 Academy Drive

Buzzards Bay, MA 02532


Start Time: 12:00 PM

Thursday, January 15, 2015

Nantucket Community Room

4 Fairgrounds Road

Nantucket, MA 02554

Start Time: 6:00 PM

Tuesday, January 20, 2014

DMF Annisquam River Station

30 Emerson Avenue

Gloucester, MA 01

thanks Mike

Option two for the charters may be a decent compromise. Still wouldn't slow the BI slaughter [if it happens again].

ONE FISH

Especially since those are proposals for Mass, not RI or NY. ;)

I guess we shall see if all the new england states adopt similar limits for the for-hire fleets so their fleets aren't at a disavantage.....

the CT charter guys were adamant about keeping 2 fish avaialble for their clients

Has CT scheduled any public hearing as of yet?

Many I have spoken with directly have since changed their tune and want the limit to stay at 28 inches even if that means a 1-fish bag limit as they feel it is easier in CT waters to regularly put their clients on a 28-inch fish than a 30-something-inch fish. I was told that the CT Party & Charter Boat Association submitted a recommendation to the DEEP in favor of a 2-fish limit, but this does not appear to have been the consensus of the organization but instead that of a minority within the ranks. This was told to me by a member of the association after a recent meeting.

Not at this time and I have a feeling that we may not have one.

I would hope that CT schedules some sort of meeting or comment period. If a 2 fish exemption (emphasis on IF) is granted to charters without any public input; the level of faith most people in CT have in the process would take a huge hit.
I am glad to hear a section of the CT Charter captains feel positive towards the 1 fish limit. It would be great to convince them to make their opinions known
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http://www.myeasternshoremd.com/news...12851af29.html

$ave the Blue Crabs!!

The only reason the bass are targeting crabs is because Omega has killed half the bait in the entire estuary. And to say that there are more Rockfish in the system than we have seen in our lifetime is BS. There is no science attached, not to mention that they will be busy killing the vaunted 2011 YOY this year, before they get to spawn !
What is so hard about 1 fish, good for all and a straight forward % reduction for commercials ? Conservation Equivalency is stupid and was lobbied into place so the slaughterhouse guys could keep doing what they are doing with a new set of smoke and mirrors.
I'm at the point where I hope they screw it up so that the ASMFC has to go into "OOPs...we messed up" mode and put a moratorium in place for more than a couple of years. Remember that the original proposal was estimated ( as in WAG ) to have only a 50% chance of success. Do we really believe all of the goofy proposals coming from NJ, RI, MD and Mass will make a difference ?

Well, just about every other SB site member has tossed in their $.02
on this. Having been a shore, kayak, and charter boat fisherman over the last 25 years or so, including the moratorium, I have seen it from many angles. So here's my take on this.

1. Two at 33" for charters won't work. Guys, the charter guys are good. Their clients want BIG fish to take home, and they know how to get them. I usually caught multiple keepers of 36" or more every time I went out. Two at 33" won't stop them any. It may even make things worse, because now they would be taking home bigger breeders who can produce more eggs. It would have to be closer to 36" or 37" to make any impact, and even that may not be enough.

2. There are other fish out there. During the moratorium, I caught a lot of blues (which unfortunately are also lacking now too). The charter guys are going to have to realize that catching stripers is a privilege, not a right, as we knew back then. There is other stuff to fish for; blues, togs, scup, black sea bass, fluke, winter flounder, albies (sometimes), weakfish (coming back in RI). The charter guys are going to have to accept the situation, and try to promote combined trips where they catch other stuff out there along with stripers in order to bring customers in. That's just the way it is. They'll have to realize it's less now or nothing later, like it is for the rest of us.

I say if there is to be 2 fish for charter, there has to be a trophy fish as a second. 1@28 and the 2nd at 50 plus inches. That will keep the fires burning after the first fish hits the icebox
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Agreed. If the charters win the privilege of a second striper, it truly has to be a trophy fish, not just another fish from the breeding pool.

2nd fish at trophy size would be fine as far as im concerned but 50 inches is absurd !
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48 inches + = trophy
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Yeah, I think we're about getting a good proposal here. I'd say 1 at 28,
1 at 40. The 1 at 28 will usually mean the sport will take the first keeper they catch, regardless of size, which will protect the bigger breeders some. 1 at 40 would make a trophy hard to catch, but not impossible; sometimes they would get one, often they wouldn't (I never
did more than 39" on any of my charters). That would give the sports a small, but not unrealistic, chance of taking home a real trophy, while protecting breeders in the 28" to 40" range, similar to the Maine regs. And, as we know from the moratorium the last time, it's the smaller fish, who may have years of breeding left in them, that need to be protected.

Weren't you guys bitching about all the huge bass caught off block island ?
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If it has to be 2 fish for charters, I would much rather have 1 @ 28" and some sort of trophy as the second than 2 @ 33".
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funny when you think about it and read the descriptions here of the average charter/party boat type..then realizing that the only people that will have the "privilege" of keeping two fish and the opportunity to chase that second "trophy" fish if an accommodation is made probably don't even fish that much or live locally and therefore have little stake in or reason for concern for the fishery, probably don't purchase a license or even know what the regulations are and might not even fish if they can't have at least the perception of being able to kill two bass and take some meat home....working really hard to accommodate these folks it seems :rotf2:

This is B.S. one at 28. Fair is fair. We went to the meetings one at 28 was the general consensus at both of the meetings I attended. Now a special interest group is lobbying for a bigger piece of the bass pie. It's not right. I feel bad that the one at 28 will effect your business. However I have concerns about the viability of your business if killing two fish is a requirement to stay in business. All charters do not have to kill basd to survive. I know many charter guys who emphasize catch and release, taking few bass back to the dock during the season. Furthermore , if your bussiness has to have special rules to Survive Mabey you should consider changes or find a new occupation. I don't think it's the governments job to design the rules to keep you in bussiness. I know it sounds cold, but I can think many bussiness that no longer exist. The governs ment should provide for the same rules for everyone not adapt the rules for the benefit of special interest groups.
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In the end, one @ 28 will likely wind up winning. If the charter guys
get more, there will be too much uproar from the regular sportfishing guys about it. But I do think it's sort of sad that the regular sportfishing guys can't see the difference. The typical captain has all the various bills to pay, and needs to keep charter customers happy. The typical sport plops down $200+ for his one (or maybe two) days a year out fishing, and that's his likely only chance at a keeper. A lot of the guys on this board are out 3-5 nights a week all summer, and may catch 20-30 keepers easily each season. Does it really seem fair for the charter guy to miss his one chance of the year at more than one, when others take home 10 times that many each year? Sigh. Life isn't fair, is it? It doesn't matter; no matter what they do, no one will like it.

agreed but the rules should be fair and applied equally if you want to avoid all of this unhappiness...if you want to compare anglers and time spent on the water as a reason for an exception you should also apply that to boats too....the average for-hire spends far more time on the water and with many more people on his boat than the average rec boat fisherman and as a result kills many more fish throughout a season, applying your logic does it seem fair that one boat on the water nearly every day should be able to keep twice as many fish per person as another boat that is on the water on an occasional weekend on what might be their only opportunity to keep fish that day/week/month?

"Does it really seem fair for the rec boat guy to miss his one chance of the week at more than one, when others take home 10 times that many each week?"

Omg you're a closet Liberal 😀
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haaaaa...

this is such a boat-centric argument, I'm still wondering if the guides and clients of shore guides/kayak fishing guides etc. will/should get a two fish exception based on the same rationale and the fact that the fishing is probably even tougher

To be honest , this might have been posted before but I found it informative .
http://www.reel-time.com/articles/co...eeing-decline/
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"Does it really seem fair for the rec boat guy to miss his one chance of the week at more than one, when others take home 10 times that many each week?"[/QUOTE]


Who are the "Others"
Charter crew or clients ???
Most charter clients go fishing 1 or 2 times a year.
Recs (as you say) go 1 time a week.

I was talking rec boat vs. "other" boat(boat for boat)....get's convoluted when you start talking about fairness and everyone is operating under different rules doesn't it?....we're talking about mortality reduction...how many dead bass hit the decks of that rec boat fishing maybe 1 time a week and how many hit the deck of the for hire boat....where's the reduction ?

the fairness issue is interesting....

if three brothers are in town for the weekend for their "1 time" fishing for the year...

one chooses to hire charter a boat and can keep two bass

one hires a shore guide and we don't know how exceptions would apply or fishes from a friend's boat and can keep one bass

one fishes the shore by himself, can keep one bass

fairness and the reduction .....and what makes the three brothers different that they are treated differently?

Life isn't fair… Deal with it
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buckman: You are right, life isn't fair. If the guides can not earn enough from their sports with 1@28" then maybe they should find another job; like many of us has had to do. The guides can complain all they want but it won't do them any good just like everyone else who has complained about hard times; you just have to suck it up and move on.
Ron

BOOM! Way to go Scott. This is the issue in a nutshell.
Do we really want to permit paying clients, most of who don't give a rats ass about the striped bass fishery, wouldn't even know the current regulations, many don't even have or even need a fishing license if on a charter in RI or Mass, the privilidge of killing two bass? These people are the last ones who DESERVE a second fish.

BTW I just heard from a Marine Bio from RI who mentioned that there will be a pre-ASMFC meeting(date not yet announced) that we will be held so that RI commissioners can interact with the public before going to the ASMFC meeting in early February.

That isn't fair, "there are very few species left for the charters to target." :fishslap:

I saw Scott's post and was going to reply with basically the same thing you just said.

My prediction is .the 6 pack boats get the two fish they want .in RI . Why ??.RI is totally politically infulenced & controlled ........................I quit going to meeting because for the most part they are f #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&g joke :sspam: