and if there was EVER a shore guide or kayak-guy who truely derived his income from guiding..... I'd buy the guy a beer.

I think I'm pretty safe

makes things even clearer for me...
here's the solution:

now that we've established that there are "real" charter guys and "not real" charter guys it and appears that it's only a fraction of the "real" charter guys that feel that they need a two fish exception to stay in business we just need to determine who they are, verify that they are them and grant them an exception.....the other option is to give all of the "real" charter guys two fish(many of whom say they don't want two fish but who might be pressured by their clients to keep two fish against their will) along with the "not real" guys who probably don't deserve to have their "clients" get two fish anyway...that would be a waste and unfair

here's what we do.....make it 1@28 for all recs...keeps it nice and simple...easy to remember

"real" charter guys who believe that they need two fish for their clients who fish once a year in order to get them to book trips so that they can remain in business can apply for an exception....

fill out an application...real charter guys will have to meet a threshold for percentage of income derived from chartering (no rich trophy wives subsidizing, trust funds, retirement income or selling fish to your restaurant friends on the side, or using someone else's boat)...this will weed out the "not real" guys pretty quickly.....and simply have the once a year client purchase a second fish tag before the trip(this will provide important data for the future and ensure that clients won't abuse the "real" charter guy's exemption and help solve any possession limit issues that might arise)


seem reasonable?

I'm curious if you have ever been on a sixpack charter . Mate maybe ? It's not just the captain that earns money from charters . There's a whole economy that surrounds this business. You sing a different tune in the political form 😀
I can honestly say I have fished off the rocks and in the canal my whole life and I suck at it . I have not had the pleasure ,as many in this thread have , of participating in the massacres at the canal.
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sure have...not my favorite way to fish(not a canal guy either)...not sure how my tune has changed..looking for equal treatment for all recs...think the "special interests" need to show an actual need if they want special treatment rather than just giving blanket additional benefit to a segment of the recs(on for-hires) because their representatives scream the loudest or have well placed friends.... but I very much appreciate how hard those guys work in often tough conditions and having the responsibility of the lives and safety of their charters...if i have a "jealousy" it would be over their ability to be on the water frequently. tell me why my solution would not work, there only a couple of caveats, and satisfy all interests and how this economy surrounding the charter business would be adversely affected? I'm happy to cede a second fish(giving you what you ask for) to a "real" client (who doesn't have to opportunity to fish often and might not without a second bass) of a "real" charter (who believes and demonstrates that the second fish is essential to the survival of his business) ...as was pointed out...there's probably lots of pretenders out there who will benefit from two fish who probably shouldn't if there is an exemption granted all charters and it sounds like they're easy to spot:eyes:... as well as many who say they don't want that second fish but might be or feel obligated

I just got off the phone with the DEM and since 99% of the crowd here swears they do not keep any fish, they will allow Buckman and his son to catch as many damn fish as they want :D

So you want to give the guys with the 50 passenger party boats who pound block island twice a day, a 2 fish limit because they are "real charter boats" but the 6 pack guys who take clients out 2 days a week aren't allowed because it doesn't represent a high enough percentage of their income?
Brilliant

Lol . I appreciate that but it's not about me or my boy
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Your a very generous guy being willing to give up one of "your" fish so somebody, who "you" deam worthy , can have a second .
Do you see a problem with that?

I have merely stated that I don't believe that the sky has fallen far enough that it has to be a do or die situation.
As a sidenote… Yesterday was the last day to send in your letters opposing a closure of a huge segment of Stellwagen Bank so it may be set aside for fish "research" only... I'd like to thank all here who sent in their letters opposing the closure .
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LOL, I know, but all of these guys remind me of the Global Warming crowd... If the law makes the catch of bass different for charters, like they do with almost all other fish, then that's the law. I see no reason for all of the arguing and telling me the world is going to end if "it's not fair" if some guy paying $500 for a trip, to a licensed charter gets to keep 1 more fish than I do....

I am working on a way to capitalize on this by selling "bass credits" sort of like carbon credits, you buy my "bass credits" and I will plant rocks in hidden locations to protect bass.

:D

sounds like they might get to do it either way...unless everyone is fishing at 1@.....the Canal massacre was an interesting point... the way things stand , the Canal massacre should be half as bad next year...looks like the BI massacre could be pretty much the same

didn't say that...I don't consider them "my" fish...you even make it hard to agree with you:huh:

You don't even have to plant the rocks , you just have to say you will.
Hey , you can even eat striped bass every night while selling your striped bass credits
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That's why I said "Hidden Locations" nobody will know if I am planting the rocks or not :D

I guess I misinterpreted this .
Kind of just messing with you Scott, at this point, that's what this thread has turned into.
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i give you credit for hanging in for 20 pages

It's definitely going to get fun around here if the charter boats are granted two fish 😀
We might have to put up a suicide watch
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Nothing personal Buckman,but in 20 pages you have the majority of posts.
This issue obviously has touched a nerve with you,yet you accuse others of being ready to kill themselves...
Where does this put you on the Samaritan watch?
Whatever happens will have to suffice but in this country that doesn't mean we have to like it.
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Thanks to New Jersey other states now have an opening:

On Thursday, the New Jersey Marine Fisheries Council approved an option for a two-fish limit for the 2015 striped bass season. The approved option allows for one fish between 28 to 43 inches and another fish at 43 inches and above. The size and bag limit must now meet with legislative approval.
The Council was considering the nine original options contained in the Draft Addendum IV, which calls for a 25 percent reduction in the recreational harvest of striped bass, plus two other options of one fish between 29 from to 36 inches with another over 36 inches; and one bass from 28 to 42 inches with another over 42 inches.
However, based on a recommendation from the ASMFC Technical Committee, the Council elected to go up one inch. The approved option provides for a 25.1 percent reduction.
Russ Allen, a fisheries biologist with the New Jersey Bureau of Marine Fisheries who helped develop the options, said a bill containing the measure should be ready to go in about a week.

Bass fishermen have been divided on the issue of the reduction with some in favor of protecting the stock with a one-fish limit at 28 inches. Charter and party boat captains, however, feared that a one-fish limit would hurt an already suffering business.

well- the "its not fair" statement is exactly the point of these 20 pages of discussion, isn't it? just because "its the law" sure as hell doesn't mean its fair.....

43" trophy:gh:. Everyone should be ok with that

True !
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FYI

One thing I find wrong with that NJ proposal is the second fish size. And the 2nd fish altogether.
NY had 1@28 and another @40 but the vast majority of fisherman who keep their catch go by 2@28 and do not even know what the law says. Some do and don't care. That's what will happen in NJ.
It seems that the scientists who calculate how equivalency comes about will say anything. We started with 1@32 and 25% commercial cut from last years take ( not LY allowance ) and that supposedly gives us 25% overall. There is no way any of the options now being floated are going to equal that number but they seem to agree with the locals that it will. Smell a few rats ?
Finding a 43" fish off the beach is skilled work and still somewhat lucky. Finding a 43" fish with a skilled charter captain, or a head boat captain...not so difficult. Too many fish of the spawning size will be killed.

43" is kinda arbitrary.....?

From what the article said Jersey was told they had to add the inch to make it 43 from 42 because the numbers wouldn't work.
Amazing that this all comes down to mathmaticians and number crunchers but that is our system.

They'll just dump the smaller fish in the woods one fish sooner than they did last year. Or run one at a time up to their trucks instead of two at a time.

No matter what they change the law to, certain groups who "forget" how to speak English when DEM is around will continue to catch as many as they want as small as they want like they always have. Most of the time DEM won't waste the time trying to explain anything or write a citation. At most they chase them off and attempt to tell them it's illegal, but tomorrow that same group will be back in the same spot. Most recreational fishermen like the majority here are not the problem. Enforce the laws, give citations to all these damn "Undocumented Democrats" and crack down on the illegals keeping 18" bass. I've seen it many times.. called DEM 3 or 4 times and have seen them actually respond a grand total of ZERO times. Many of us bust our ass just to find a keeper, while certain populations keep every freaking thing that bites their line.

No matter what regs the powers at be come up with, there will always be someone breaking the rules. Even if the shut it down totally.

Speaking of enforcement, I love seeing MEP guys and gals doing road details. Pisses me off to be honest. theres not enough enforcement out in the woods or on the water but yet they are watching people repair the roadways.:1poke:

I assume you mean the Irish and English American poachers from Tilghman Island. No doubt they are the worst. And doing it for money too... scum bags.

What I have seen around here has been mostly families of I think Guatemalans and then smaller groups of 3 or 4 Chinese and sometimes Vietnamese men. Families (sometimes 15 or 20 people) seem to always be on the shore in a few spots near Middletown, they keep a lot of small fish, but I am sure they eat them and need the food. Of course if they were working and not sitting in those 2 or 3 spots sort of hidden off the road all day every day, all summer long, maybe they wouldnt need to keep illegal fish.

The Asian guys pop up all over, will plop down on your shoulder and fish right on top of you. I see them target blackfish more often than bass, but they keep every fish they catch.

I don't want to drive this thread off into the woods on a rant about illegals and their fishing practices but it bugs me to see people dump on legal fishermen (yes charter guys count) who may have legitimate reasons for trying to get the exception of the 2nd fish.

It just grinds my gears when I know any of us that can't fake a foreign language and pretend to not understand the DEM officer, would get hammered doing the stuff some of these illegals get away with all season long.

This is only something I've noticed the the last couple years. There has been three of them working details in Cambridge during the entire hunting season . I wonder how far they drive the pick up trucks into "work"every day and how they are able to accomplish their real job if they are in the city in the daylight hours
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You can feel better then that the biggest poaching jobs are done by the English speaking guys. Not sure how those Guatemalans can be here not working and at the same time stealing jobs from Americans, but you are right, better not to get off the point of the thread.
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Go fish in Quincy...you want to see the worst of the worst...and they don't speak English so well....
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I live on Wollaston beach in Quincy.
I amazed there are gulls and pigeons still alive in my neighborhood.
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I grew up right off Wolly Beach...times have changed
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2 litre soda bottles filled with periwinkles roasting in the summer sun......mmmmmm....mmmmmm....good !
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Nothing better than doing a charter with a group of these guys.
No filleting ever or left over live bait.
Wonder how a pogie taste cooked in a wok

I in the past have accidentally slow cooked pogie in a igloo cooler in the back of my suv. Judging from that smell I think they would be horrendous, no matter how much soy sauce you dumped on it....

Some sweet & sour, a little MSG and you got some goood eating.
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This is NYS marine resource advisory council's meeting summary which gives a good summary of the discussion in NY. As of mid November.

http://www.somas.stonybrook.edu/comm...2014-11-18.pdf
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