the most salient point is Charlie Witek's comment about managing "live fish" not dead fish.....

and not just thinking about killing them in 2015, but having them around to fish for in 2020........

It is opinion really, but the ones I despise the most are the ones who take 10's of thousands of pounds for no reason other than money. I don't like anyone poaching, but the guys making money poaching/selling illegally are much worse to me than someone who is keeping them to eat. In any case, the poachers come in all shapes and sizes. Some just are easy to spot and others are pro's at hiding it.

It's not opinion, it's fact. Have you ever been there to see it??? Too bad you despise one over the other, you should reconsider...I on the other hand despise both sides that don't abide by the law...even if they claim stupid...I guess you have different standards of judging people
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If it is about abiding by the law, then why is the language part a primary focus? Have I been there to see what? I know all kinds of people poach. The language they speak is irrelevant, whether they keep 10 undersized fish in Quincy or 200,000 lbs on the bay. I don't have different standards for judging people, though I did judge the motivation for the acts. On that you are right, they are both bad as I believe I said. I also despise the charter boat slaughter off the block and the massacre on the banks of the canal and those are legal so I guess I will work on straightening out how I rank my despising.

I think we agree on the fundamentals that poaching is poaching no matter which way you slice it or who does it...the language part is used as the excuse of not being able to understand the law...when in reality it's ingnorence of the law...
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You know, I saw quite a few guys riding two big bass up to their trucks this summer while there was a cow blitz at a certain 400 yard stretch of Canal. No rods or gear on the bike. Then saw them a half hour later riding two more up there. On closed commercial days. Then riding back down to their gear and fishing again.

They all speak English pretty well. Like they were born here. Which, since I know most of them by sight if not by name, they were.
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MA Enviromental Police Hotline
800-632-8075

Try that in Russia or just about anywhere else.

there are (respected) members here who have suggested to friends that any decent fish they catch in the canal, they should give them a call and they'll come get it- and then sell it-

and they are good "recreational" guys....

the problem with striped bass is that they are worth too much

After you read this you will understand how badly New jersey threw bass under the bus. Now it will be hard to stop most of the states from going with two fish limits. Once again the public that bothered to give comments will be ignored. Plus note just how big a percentage the charters are on the fish killed in NY.

I read that too.
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It has been getting leaner and leaner for the shore guys down there for awhile now.

As long as were talking, I find the concept of who is a charter captain and who is a commercial fisherman interesting. For the purpose of the IRS how many trips do you need to take before your a charter captain is it one per year or is it a certain amount? Point being: I get the feeling that there are guys out there that say they are charter captains but are really in another occupation and just supplement there income by chartering. I have some sympathy for someone whose full time profession is chartering vs. a part timer. Additionally on a different point. I am sick to death of the so-called commercial fishermen who have other full time real jobs and commercially bass fish. In specific I know full time fireman and policemen who beat the hell out of the bass. I wonder how many of the guys commercial fishing at the block last year? I would suspect very few. Most probably had other jobs which they supplemented by helping to destroy a public resource. And don't tell me that they are providing a public service to feed bass to people who don't have access to bass to eat. No their doing it for the money pure and simple. If your a real commercial fisherman or charter captain, meaning that's how you feed your family I have sympathy, but not for the others.

Nowadays a lot of people have two jobs. It's what people do to get by.
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I will make sure I tell that to the fire captain in town that purchased a house on Martha's Vineyard with the proceeds of his commercial bass fishing. How about the teachers fishing off the block the last few summers. I am sure they are having a rough time in this economy. Especially after they had their pensions cut back last year. You guys have all the excuses anyway to get a bigger piece of the pie than the next guy. I reassert my belief that started this discussion. The rules should be the same for everyone. If they are not, special interests groups will fight for the crumbs that remain and eventually here will be no bass to fish for.

You are entitled to reap the benefit$ of this public resource just as much the next guy.
Just because you choose not to, doesn't make it wrong for others to do so.

Or 3.
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Do you really believe someone built a house on Martha's Vineyard from the proceeds from commercial bass fishing ?
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Some folks in this discussion are truly delusional.

Yeah, money has a funny way of doing that to people.
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You know what's delusional? Saying killing 2 fish is equal to killing 1 fish. Now that's delusional.
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Vineyard ?
Psssshhh- he must suck. My Bass money is going my new homestead on Nantucket.
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Exactly
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It's the opportunity to catch two larger fish fish versus the opportunity to catch one smaller fish.
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Delusional
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That's baloney, any charter worth his salt will put his client on large, much larger than 33 inches. One 30 lber is plenty, and they can keep catching all day and throwing them back. And if they need more meat, go for fluke, sea bass or scup, or stop at the fish market and buy them some fillets on top of the 400 dollar fee. And if you tell me you can't put your client on decent fish, that is an obvious sign the stock is in trouble
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I said it once and I will say it again. This is really about charter captians and crew and SELLING bass.
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make it a gamefish.

What is delusional is the idea that the population can be properly managed with maximum sustainable yield as the standard.

After a meeting yesterday it appears NY will now also request a two fish bag from ASMFC for all fishermen. These decisions are creating lots of disillusioned recs who are now seeing that the ASMFC public hearing process last year was basically a waste of time. Massachusetts meetings this week - and RI appears to be waiting for the last minute so as to see what other states have done.

Because recreational fisherman have so overwhelmingly been in favor of the one fish option, there have been discussions amongst recs advocating a boycott of the Party and Charter Boat Associations that are favoring the two fish option. With today's widespread communication capabilities along the coast it may just have some effect and if it's all about the money it would give the for-hire guys something to think about if they ostracize themselves from the recreational community.

Striped bass is a unique fishery to the recs and unlike other fisheries they've really got people's attention on this one.

Most of those "other " fish are not easily obtained on our side of the ditch .
As you guys are aware, bass move, they migrate, they don't stay in the same spot . We had days where you could get bass at Racepoint and the very next day they had moved outside the three-mile zone.
Just because a charter can't catch 2/33 inch fish for every client ,every day does not mean the bass are in trouble nor does it mean the captain is not "worth his salt " (a phrase you guys particularly enjoy)
It will be good if the charterboats get 2 fish then you guys can continue to point fingers . ( something else you seem to particularly enjoy )
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a few more years of 2 fish being killed and there will not be any bass in the ditch or north of there either

time to sacrifice is now before it's too late

1 fish for all now, before it becomes no fish

If this isn't pure petty jealousy, I don't know what is.
If you don't get your way, then you're going to boycott. :crying:

It's not against the law to sell charter caught bass.
However to your point, if the charter boats do not get 2 fish limit, there will be some sort of amended rule so they will be able to possess more then the 8 fish rec limit on commercial 15 fish days(Monday&thurs).
Right Now it's not an issue. they are allowed 16 fish with 8 guys.(15 can go to market)

If the rec limits on charter boats change to where they are only allowed 8 fish on a commercial day, you can bet there will be something coming to amend that from the commercial front.

Threats ??? Real class
I change my mind… When would you like to book the trip ??
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It's a topic of conversation in circulation and it's not my idea. Not going fishing is not a threat. It's merely a decision not to lend financial support to a group that does not share a similar conservation ethic.

Thanks for the offer but I wouldn't like to book a trip.

FYI...the analysis of potential reduction in the below chart was not done in segments. It was a fishery wide analysis. To suggest that the same reductions will apply if this is pick and choose by subset of the is just inaccurate. No one has seen analysis of split regs. IT may not be possible.

There're plenty of Charter captains that do favor a one-fish option. They're not too popular with some of there associates right now but they have been speaking up commendably in the face of criticism. If you're going to take a charter it only seems logical to write your check out to someone who shares a similar attitude about the resource.

A lesson in history and a question at the end.

History: Three years ago Gulf of Maine advocates were in a similar argument. We needed a Haddock reduction and privates wanted a ten fish limit while the charter fleet was stating they must have unlimited bag limit to sell charters. The charter fleet won and we stayed at unlimited for the 2013 season. When the catch data came in we caught more than 200% of our quota. This is why, even though our haddock quota recently more than doubled we are only going to have a bag limit of less than 5 haddock in 2015.

Current SB debate: IF MA can analyze, predict and manage split regulations NOW then they can surely can do so after the fact when there is more data.

It is known that if the fishery does not make the required 25% reduction we will be required to adjust regs again and next time there WILL BE closures. In New England I think this will be closures during at least part of May or September.

QUESTION: Are the 2 fish for the charter fleet advocates on this page willing to agree to split accountability measures? If your risky reg does not work (just like what happened with haddock) will you agree now to follow the data you are selling now and put into regulation a guarantee of split accountability?