How much interspecies management is there? For instance do they look at the ratios of forage species to predatory species to prevent a manmade imbalance?

Pie, if they do cut back think of all the time you'll have to turn me some giant pikie bodies :D :smash:

-spence

:rotf2: - OK, I'm really not laughing. Really. If they did, would the menhaden be so vastly overfished? The most important fish in the Western Atlantic?

According to the ASMFC they are now doing multispecies assessments. For what it's worth...

-spence

Spence:
Just got a new load of AYC. I promised you some pikies and after the season is over I'll make you a FEW!

Hopefully there will be some bass left to throw them at :smash:

Amen to that.

I was just at a presentation given by NMFS in Seattle a couple of weeks ago and they said that their goal is to move to a total ecosystem based management system of fisheries management. Unfortunately he said you are more likely to see this in the Northwest, where fisheries manangement is less political than it is in the Northeast.

The guy basicaly said in so many words that fisheries management in the Northeast is basically a joke and is based on nothing but politics. THIS CAME DIRECTLY OUT OF THE MOUTH OF A HIGH RANKING NOAA OFFICER.

Zacs;

That shouldn't be news to anyone familiar with the management of the fisheries;

Ecosystem based management has become a hot-topic lately among both academics and policy makers; The science (I think) is starting to catch up to this and less emphasis is done researching one individual species etc.. rather now it is on how species X, Y,Z react to eachother under conditions 1,2,3 at location.. blah blah.. My work focuses on the location/condition issues; mapping habitats etc.. (where's the rock, mud, sand ad nauseam)

Basically this is probably how it should have been thought about all along; but.. such is life and fisheries management.....

Put a 3 year moratorium on pogies(aka bunker/menhaden) and watch how healthy the stocks get.There are a lot of bass out there and in the Chesapeak area,but they are getting macrobacteriosis and are skinny because they don't have enough fatty food to eat. Menhaden multiply quickly - they have to-evrything eats them. 3 years and their stocks would rebound and we would have a much healthier striper population. But.......big companies make MONEY off of pogies :rolleyes: what was I THININKING.........:(

I agree with Joe and anyone else who worries about the bass( and any other gamefish that feeds on menhaden) food base. That explosion of juvenile bass we had several years ago are now the big ones that have been fairly well preyed upon and without enough fatty food, they won't be as prolific and their young won't be as strong. They have to get those factory ships off the forage fish!:af:

so, seriously tho, what can we do about it?

we have a bunch of people with great ideas here, lets get them out there some how. or is it just that no one will listen?

Its more than just a BAIT PROBLEM............Bait will help, But lets stop over FISHING...............

Well, just found this one on another site.... seems we need to catch and kill more bass, because of the decline in menhadden population :rolleyes:




We may need to increase commercial and recreational catch of Stripers to improve the health of the species, according to this article from AP.

Survival rate of striped bass falls
By The Associated Press

Biologists are trying to find out why the survival rate of striped bass, whose numbers rebounded under strict catch limits in the Chesapeake Bay, appears to be falling.

"There’s an increased concern by fisheries managers that we could be looking at some future crash" of the striped bass population, said Wolfgang Vogelbein, a scientist at the Virginia Institute of Marine Science.

Pollution, disease or starvation could be at fault, biologists say. Some scientists are also beginning to ask whether the recreational-catch limits and commercial-harvest quotas, which helped the striped bass recovery, are too restrictive.

"We’ve got a rare case of a species coming back to high abundance and are now seeing things that may be problems caused by this high abundance," said Desmond Kahn, a biologist with the Delaware Division of Fish and Wildlife.

If the trend continues, the decline would be the first threat striped bass have faced since the 1980s, when overfishing whittled down their numbers to such a point that the federal government banned fishing for the species from North Carolina to Maine.

The Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission, composed of Virginia and 14 other Atlantic states, engineered the moratorium. It earned accolades from conservationists worldwide when the striped bass population rebounded to record highs.

The Atlantic commission declared the striped bass "fully recovered" in 1995.

Known in the bay as rockfish, striped bass now support a multimillion-dollar sports fishing industry in Virginia and are regularly pursued by commercial netters. The state controls the sport and commercial harvests through catch quotas imposed by the Atlantic commission.

About 75 percent of the coastal striped bass population is spawned in the bay. Most of the fish live there for several years until they mature. They then join the adult population that generally migrates offshore from North Carolina to Maine’s coastal rivers, returning to the bay each year to spawn.

The commission’s estimates continue to show robust population growth. Striped bass have been reproducing so successfully in the bay, however, that the population may be able to tolerate increases in mortality, Kahn said.

Yet biologists are trying to figure out why young striped bass in the bay aren’t living as long as they once did.

The bay’s striped bass enjoyed a survival rate between 60 percent and 70 percent through the mid-1990s, Kahn said. That rate, however, dropped to 40 percent to 50 percent in 1998 and has remained about the same since then.

Kahn said an analysis of tagged fish indicates the numbers are declining because the striped bass are dying — not because they are being harvested.

One possible cause could be a disease called mycobacteriosis, which was discovered in the bay’s striped bass in 1997, a year before striped bass survival rates fell.

At first, an estimated 10 percent of the bay’s resident striped bass were believed infected with the disease, which often leaves red sores on a fish’s flanks and attacks its internal organs. Now, more than 70 percent of the fish are infected, said Vogelbein, the VIMS scientist.

Another problem could be pollution. Nutrients from sewage-treatment plants and polluted runoff from farms and development create algae blooms that leave a vast "dead zone" in the bay’s depths devoid of oxygen. Striped bass normally seek summer refuge in deep water but now must make do in shallower water that contains oxygen but is warmer than the fish prefer.

Scientists also say menhaden, which striped bass eat, have declined in population. Studies show that menhaden represented 80 percent of the striped bass’s diet in the Maryland portion of the bay in the 1950s.

"Now, it’s down to 20 percent of their diet," said Kahn, who notes that striped bass have gotten skinnier over the years.

Jim Price, a former Maryland fishing guide, has been arguing for years that striped bass are going hungry in the bay.

"We need to kill more of these fish," he said of striped bass. "I want to see the bay get back into balance."

Researchers say a work session scheduled next month on the ecological role of menhaden in the bay may begin to shed light on whether changes in the menhaden population are affecting striped bass.

I wouldn't doubt bass #'s are down. Fishin in a wetsuit till this point, I expected more bass and heavier too. Although alot of area's are new to me there's no doubt they should give up some qaulity fish by now. The boat fishin this year has been good giving up a bunch of fish in the 30#'s but in general I thought the quantity would be a little higher......I'm not bitchin but the #'s in the surf for me has been way down.

Just for discussion....HOW

remember that the vast majority of fish killed are either by the recreational take or the 8% recreational release mortality

Stopping commercial bass fishing only will not save enough fish to effect the total biomass numbers for many years

Patrick - overfishing is commited by BOTH groups. And not commercial bass person is a Rod & Reeler. Seems like they like nets down in NC.... BTW - I have the rack for you - call me tomorrow am and I'll give you directions...


Folks - it is a BAIT problem. Bass and everything else out there does not have enough to eat...

They (managers) will absolutely listen if you show up and talk. Recreational friendly ,managers are dying for the recreational public to make some noise by showing up and participating.

Internet discussion like this is ok, but bottom line is that when it comes to Management meetings, there is close to ZERO attendence by the recreational public. All the comments on bait are right on in my opinion but at a recent Herring meeting there was no recreational attendence besides myself. There was a Menhaden meeting last month in Plymouth that lasted ....ready....15 minutes because no one showed up for that agenda item....

Talking here is good for dfiscussion but showing up and asking questions not yelling at managers is what is needed

Truth hurts but we (recreational fishers) love to complain and almost never show up to participate in the process. Further making things worse is when recreational representatives attempt to back up their statements to managers with a letter writing campaign or e-mail campaign of phone call campaign, everyone has an excuse why they did not participate and the recreational voice is once again ignored because it did not speak.

now I will get attacked by those who are feeling guilty about my statements:smash:

they have stopped bunker fishing in long island sound and they are seeing alot of adult pogys now another thing you have to take as a factor is the large bluefish those blues will gobble up huge schools of pogys in no time

Patrick, How you say. I don't know.Thats why I posted this. I've been the meeting Route before, Same few all the TIME...... Some thing needs to get done. I don't have the answers . But when and if it hits the Shi**er again that will be it..............Everyone I know numbers are down, From the little guy to the Commercial guy,Has to be a Reason...............No bait is one. Maybe a off year who knows. But there are Some good points here...

Seals I believe are affecting the Cape fishing more than anything.....local has been pretty good.:D Overall though my year has been horrible......lots of fishing, not much to show for all of it.:(

Like Jim Price said we need to kill more fish !!!! With that kind of thinking no wonder we are in trouble.

A comment on Karl's point on nutrients in Pleasant Bay.
I can see the Gov'ts solution: too many trophy homes ? Runoff messing up the eco-system? No problem. Set up a No Fishing MPA!!!!!

commercial
 

i dont think the average sports fisherman are hurting the fishing. maybe tighten up on commercial fishing?

Fishing has been in decline for a few years IMHO, you have to work much harder and cover a lot more water to catch these days and I've got a boat to get around quickly in. Take this past Sunday which is a perfect example, I covered well over 40 miles running around from Westport to Sekonit, north of Westport, out to Cuttyhunk and never saw a single bird working on a day I'd have seen them working for miles away.

I caught stripers, nothing large, but where is the bait? I say we burn the Omega plants to the ground, sink and scuttle all their trollers and convert them into structure, then raise the length limits or go to a slot to produce some consistant year classes and some fresh genes.

Otherwise we will all have to become bluefisherman like Clammer:).

And that my friends, is why we fail.

I volunteer with the BoyScouts.
Every kid in the troop has at least one parent.
Most have two.

We have crap for turnout and commitment from the parents.
People are quick to bitch but when push comes to shove they wond make a commitment no matter how important it really is.

I think that the bass that seem to be offshore stay off shore most of the time and rarely venture in to the surf. The SURF bass have been decimated by all the forces previously mentioned that have been preying on them for the last 100 years.
There has been a scientific finding that due to the overfishing of Codfish the stock that remains has had a shift in its growth pattern due to genetic factors. Seems the fish that grow fastest mature earliest have the most success in breeding and now there is 'new' codfish. We have been overfishing the inshore species of bass, I think we are selectively fishing them out to the point where they no longer breed to their historic #'s. If this was just the Cape you could say it is only X factor but it is all up and down the coast. There seem to be no summer bass anymore only the migration fish that pass us by. Habs I agree with you, its going down hill and faster each year.

i think its a off year i have seen tons of bait and even some adult pogys i caught 4 bass all upper 20 inches feeding on sand eels and baby pogys in a bay near my house i was great fun i was useing a popper seeing that striper come up and smack it was amazing but like i said we need to stop commercial fishing for pogys. pogys are like hamburgers for stripers

Crow;
Thats an interesting theory re; inshore and deeper water Bass...

Any studies been done to prove that? It would certainly be interesting, but I think b/c Stripers are so Migratory they just move inshore and deep and back again...

B

Something to consider is how many recreational bass fishermen there are today as compared to maybe 3 or 4 years ago... Because there are so many people fishing for bass, the stocks could be wiped out very quickly without anyone noticing it until its too late. For all we know this is happening now.

Not only do we need to save the bait, but We need a saltwater liscence to raise funds to protect the bass. those funds could go twards stricter enforecement of the current laws, or the $$ could go twards making bass a gamefish... who knows:huh:

We should have made bass a gamefish 20 years ago when they we almost wiped out. There is a relatively small contingency of Commercial Rod & Reel guys in the Northeast so they are not the problem. The real problem is Virginia where they net thousands of brood stock every Dec & Jan.