He voted for the war in iraq before he voted againstv it whver the hell that meens:smash: Not to long ago he said after all the stuff he new about iraq he still would have voted to go to war...yet recently he has been saying bush lied about all the circumstances leading to the war. Wich one is it???!! Did he support the use of force like he said....or does he not support the use of force like he said? cant have it both ways Johney:smash:

Well, Kerry never really said he would have still voted to go to war, he said he would still vote to give the President the authority so he would have that option.

There is a subtle difference that is very important. If you remember the context back then, the hawks in the administration were telling the President to just invade and screw the UN. The President went before Congress and promised to go to the UN, build a coalition like in Desert Storm, and put a war vote before the UN. In return the President asked for the approval of Congress to use force, the idea being for the UN process to work there must be a real threat of war behind it.

Kerry was a huge proponent if holding Saddam accountable, but he also insisted it be done properly. The reality is that Bush abandoned the UN process when it became clear we didn't have the evidence to justify the threat as was laid out. Bush didn't build a strong coalition and didn't put the war vote before the UN as promised. Bush did mislead the country on Iraq.

So Kerry isn't really trying to have it both ways, it's just that your opinion of the situation has been formed not by Kerry, but by Bush. They have done a brilliant job of twisting his record and Kerry has done a terrible job of fighting back.

The Bush Administration took a risk that we could remove Saddam with a moderate force and get out quickly. They were wrong at just about every turn. Even today they don't talk about the violence much, even though our troops are being attacked and are dying every day. They don't talk about how the violence is getting worse every day. They insist the Generals in Iraq arn't asking for more troops, when in reality they are. They don't talk about the fact that the new Iraqi Government is not seen as legitimate. They won't discuss how we're not really giving Iraq Democracy as that would instantly lead to a Shiite majority. They don't talk about the fact the estimated number of insurgents has nearly quadrupeled in the past 6 months. They don't talk about the fact that they have yet to train very many Iraqi police and military, but they do say they've fully trained over 200,000 which is a lie Joe Biden exposed this week.

This isn't pessimisim, it's reality. Things in Iraq are not going well and it's directly related to our invading without planning, without International support and without enough troops. Saddam did need to be held accountable, but there was no urgency that said we had to go that spring. UN sanctions and the no fly zones had removed most of Saddam's ability to even think about WMD and the links to al Qaida were of no substance to be any threat.

All this time we could have using our military and economic might to combat real and urgent dangers from terrorisim. Working to better sucure our ports, our borders and our airlines. Working to combat the spread of radical Islam and the ability of al Qaida cells to regroup. Working to end nuclear proliferation in North Korea and Iran.

Instead we went chasing after non-existant WMD's in Iraq and perhaps to settle an old score. How many Administration insiders have come forth and said that Bush and Cheney were completely absorbed with Iraq from Sept 12th on? Lots...

The real motivation for Iraq is the neo-conservative idea that we can win the war on terror through direct American leadership (i.e. military domination). Some might say transform the Middle East by "spreading democracy". The major flaw in this idea is that it's A - extremely imperialistic and B - extremely stupid. The preisdent has chosen to spread Democracy not by extending the hand of Lady Liberty, but by packaging Democracy inside 2000 pounds of high explosives. As long as we are seen as the invaders, every bomb we drop and every round we fire will create more insurgents and a larger recruitment pool for al Qaida.

To win Iraq we need to leave. We can't just cut and run obviously, but we must have a clear plan to remove the American face from the occupation. Internationalization will help tremendously, as will active Arab and Islamic participation from neighbors. We must provide an incentive for our allies to provide troops and invest in the rebuilding of Iraq. Not give no-bid contracts to Halliburton and tell the rest of the UN they don't get to participate because they didn't support us when we walked away from the UN.

John Kerry understands this, Bush doesn't.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand the President's priorities are not where they should be.

-spence

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES

Spence, I would have said that word for word...

Wah cry the libs.Same old sh*t different day.

Basswipe, thanks for the heartfelt retort.

Do you even know what a liberal is ?

-spence

better yet how about a 'neo-conservative'... these guys are making the liberals look conservative:hihi:

Spence not for nothing but if you were senator, and you were dead set against the war, would you really have voted to give the president the authority to go? You Rhody guys should take a lesson from us M#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&s, if we don't trust the guy why should you? The guy is a scam artist. He had a stock portfolio at the beggining of his campaign that did not have one AMERICAN Company in it. When he got wind that someone was going to break a story about it, he quickly liquidated what he had , and started buying stock in American companies. If the polls said we should hang Clinton, Kerry would bring the rope, and then tell evryone that Bill brought it himself. At least Bush has the guts to go in one direction, and stand by his decisions, good or bad.


Oh, by the way the state legislators are crying about Romney doing some campaign stuff for GW. Apparently they did not want him to speak in NY, or anywhere else, he should be here doing his job. Yet they fully support Kerry campaigning, and not attending to his senatorial duties. Kerry should have resigned once he got the nod. Another democratic double standard.

Kerry's by no means perfect, but I do believe he understands how to solve some fundamental problems.

Bush doesn't change direction period. He would drive off a cliff rather than hit the brakes. This is extremely reckless and makes you wonder what his real motivations are.

As much as a scam artist you might think Kerry is, I've seen what a scam artist Bush has been as President the past 4 years. In just about every facet of policy he has said one thing and done another.

-spence

I still have not seen anyone state his position other that bashing Bush and saying he would do it better!!!

When you've got a president that's this bad in office, it really doesnt matter what the otherguy stands for.. I'd vote in Alfred E Newman over bush anyday....

And yet another evasion tactic. You must not know what he will do or how he will do it ether.

Multiple targets, Tiverton and Wakefield

Read this interview, just yesterday, and please tell me one thing, just one, that Kerry says he'll really do and why it will work. His responses are utter nonsense.
He cannot even run a successful campaign, how can he run a country.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6009011/

Vote Bombas!

Imus couldn't even figure out what Kerry said.

What a waffle.

I understand him perfectly... maybe My private school education has givin me the edge:hihi:

The Ted Kennedy Brain-wash the Democratic children vocational Institute ?

umm no.

what Garrison Keeler from lake woobegon said the other day :D link

I understand him perfectly... maybe My private school education has givin me the edge


Remind me not to send my kids to that school when i have them someday. :smash:

Ebon I know why you Hate Bush so much.....You go to all the lefty websites and thats all you get for information. I will check a right wing site or two but i take the info there with agrain of salt becuase of course there are agendas. You need to be more diverse with were you get your info. Oh my i god i used the word "diverse"!!! Thats such a Liberal phrase! I think im losing it!!:D :laughs:

send them if you want them to think for themselves. Dont send them if you want them to follow the pack.

I hate bush because he is a robot. Kerry flip flops because when things change, his decisions chaange. for instance, he voted to go to war before bush went to the UN... when it turned out that bush's excuses were bogus and the UN sais no, Kerry said no too... any inteligent person would make the same decision. Regime change starts at home:smash:

and then he said he go to war, don't go to war,
go to war, don't go to war,
go to war, don't go to war,
go to war, don't go to war,
go to war, don't go to war,
go to war, don't go to war,
She loves me , loves me not
She loves me , loves me not
She loves me , loves me not
She loves me , loves me not
She loves me , loves me not
She loves me , loves me not

I think he spends to much time pulling pedals off daisy's

The UN did not say no because they thought Bush was lying....The UN said no just like they always do. They are Puss@^@ and have the same mindset as you do and think every conflict can be solved with diplomacy wich is not the case. How many times did the UN get jerked around by Saddam? Finally someone said enough is enough and took action. We would still be jerking around with UN for god knows how long if we didnt take action.

Sometimes its the bigger pussy that throws the first punch skip. :bshake:

Or the one thats got the most to lose,,,,,,

UN= useless nitwits.

OHmygawd Jimbo,
That was a hailarious picture!
Muckrakers would have a field day with me and Mikey though.
I'd have to be the president.
Later,
Rick

Sometimes its the bigger pussy that throws the first punch skip.

Not in this case:laughs:

Oh yea, Just wait until the big oil for food scandel breaks and you find out how corrupt the UN really is. :smash: Yea, thats who i wanna trust to protect america:rolleyes: