Buts its not the MANDATORY religion.

Comes down to freedom of choice.....I don't think ole Bin Laden believes in that,

And getting back to Native Americans, they certainly didn't have a choice now did they?

Lets not forget the missionaries that have sprouted up all over the world funded by US groups.

(uh oh i think im being a flip flop!)

And I'm going to quote this again, and repeat, Fundamentalists live in Malaysia. They don't go and blow up the K-L Towers, or the brand new F-1/Superbike track, or airports, or airliners. They live in a more modern than most of the US society. You are wrong.

RIJimmy your blowing my mind with your comments. I've typed like 5 responses so some of your replies and have to delete them:hihi: However, Spence and I were just on the phone having a global test and we both agree that we dont agree with you, so we will have to kill you :laughs:

In my utopian dream of a perfect world, there is no religion and everyone treats people with love and respect. a little comprimise and understanding go a long way.

Eben, it's all part of the master plan. Expand into the western world, expell the native populations and take all the resources. What else were they supposed to do :confused:

This sort of genetic superiority complex is what got the Germans into trouble 80 years ago :rolleyes:

-spence

No they did not have a choice. They fought (and rightly so)
And as I have said before, I dont believe that any radical religion or radical culture has a choice. Remember, I said Bin LAden is right, his culture is threatened. Capitlism has spread to all corners of the world. If the forests where the pygmies live have some value, eventually they will be forced to move or conform. Look at Russia? Czeck Republic, China? Do you think that 30 years ago those governments would ever have beleive that they would have Pepsi and Coca Cola???

My analogy to the Native Americas and Isalmic fundamentalsits is that their way of lives conflict with modern socieites. The takeover of Indian lands was intentional (and dishonest) the take over by western culture is not intentional, but it is happening.

Do I wish the USA was a country of forrests, clean rivers and people living in harmony with the land......of course. But thats not how we developed. We lust for our Van Staals and 150 inch TVs. Is it good?, bad? I have nothing to compare it to. But I beleive that Bin Laden adn his followers beleive it is bad and want to stop it from spreading. I hope my points are somewhat clearer

So because they conflict they have to be destroyed?
Right.

Corruption and greed is what destroyed the soviet union, not mcdonalds.

You are right. They do not kill people for their religion. All my comments are pointed at those who do. Radical Fundmentalist to me, means those that will fight and kill to keep their way of life. If radical muslims co-exist with others in Malaysia I guess in my opinion they are not what I would call radicals.

Jeez, Im not sure why you guys are getting so angry with me, Im not sure I am explaining myslef clearly and I dont think my points are that off base.

Well then, go rally against Jerry Falwell and all his buddies, they want you to beat your wife and run gay people over because they're all wrong.

No No No No. Im not saying anyone has to be destroyed. I give up. :smash:

Now Native American's are considered a "radical culture" :confused: :confused: :confused:

Perhaps if we go fishing sometime I'll show you my Cherokee Nation card (yes I really have one) and you can give me a TB invested blanket :rolleyes:

-spence

I would.

You would run gay people over :confused: :confused: :confused:

-spence

I think what you're missing is WE screwed up.
WE *used* Pakistan and Afghanistan to fight Communism.
We pissed them off and pushed crap on them.
They aren't coming over here with McAllah's and trying to convert us all to Islam.

Our foreign policy just plain freaking SUCKS. Always has, always will.

Hey, then its settled, you're no better than OBL.

Forget it Spence. They were/are a culture that could not coexist with an industrialized, growing nation thats lusts for commercial profit.

yes.. you are making more sense:D


i have 2 questions though...

1- how many Iraqi's were on the planes durring 9/11?

2- How many americans were killed by Iraqi's on US soil or in Iraq after 9/11?



I think someone's been Bushwacked

Cut it out, you know I meant i would rally.

So commercial profit justifies eradication of cultures :confused:

And you would rally for running gay people over :confused:

Now I'm confused...

-spence

- you're changing the sublect, I never mentioned Iraq nor GWB.

Yea, Eben...the topic is now about RIJIMMY running over gay native Americans for profit...

Sorry :laughs: :laughs: :laughs: :D

-spence

don't forget doing it for al... i mean jesus!

Spence play fair:hihi:

Jim i was asking because in your statement that you would want to protect americans lives at all cost, i was just wondering how many iraqi's have killed americans?? the bulk of muslim terrorists killing americans are Saudi and Pakistani... shall we attack them?

No spence, Im only analyzing what happens. not saying whether its right or wrong.

For example. I lived in San Francisco for 6 years. For teh the first 3 years it was a great multi-cultural city with people with diverse backgrounds. The second 3 was after teh dot-com boom. The city was over run by yuppies, rents went sky high, the "interesting" cultures where pushed out. I moved out, I hated teh change.
Was the change right? Who knows, its just what happened.
Is the invasion of US culture in Saudi Arabia right? I dont know. But OBL is going to fight it and that means he is going to have to hit the US.
Societys have been changing for 10,000 years, Im not sure what " right" is or what progress is.
My whole point is that Bin Laden si trying to fight this change. Many,many others have tried for centuries

I'm pretty sure Bin Laden blowing up the twin towers isn't over Levis and McDonalds.

But your voting in a way that encourages a viscious cycle:smash:

RIJIMMY: the way you speak is as if you only listened to Fox News and didn't actually read the transcript of Osama Bin Laden's latest speech, so here it is:

You, the American people, I talk to you today about the best way to avoid another catastrophe and about war, its reasons and its consequences.

And in that regard, I say to you that security is an important pillar of human life, and that free people do not compromise their security.

Contrary to what [President George W.] Bush says and claims -- that we hate freedom --let him tell us then, "Why did we not attack Sweden?" It is known that those who hate freedom don't have souls with integrity, like the souls of those 19. May the mercy of God be upon them.

We fought with you because we are free, and we don't put up with transgressions. We want to reclaim our nation. As you spoil our security, we will do so to you.

I wonder about you. Although we are ushering the fourth year after 9/11, Bush is still exercising confusion and misleading you and not telling you the true reason. Therefore, the motivations are still there for what happened to be repeated.

And I will talk to you about the reason for those events, and I will be honest with you about the moments the decision was made so that you can ponder. And I tell you, God only knows, that we never had the intentions to destroy the towers.

But after the injustice was so much and we saw transgressions and the coalition between Americans and the Israelis against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, it occurred to my mind that we deal with the towers. And these special events that directly and personally affected me go back to 1982 and what happened when America gave permission for Israel to invade Lebanon. And assistance was given by the American sixth fleet.

During those crucial moments, my mind was thinking about many things that are hard to describe. But they produced a feeling to refuse and reject injustice, and I had determination to punish the transgressors.

And as I was looking at those towers that were destroyed in Lebanon, it occurred to me that we have to punish the transgressor with the same -- and that we had to destroy the towers in America so that they taste what we tasted, and they stop killing our women and children.

We found no difficulties in dealing with the Bush administration, because of the similarities of that administration and the regimes in our countries, half of which are run by the military and half of which are run by monarchs. And our experience is vast with them.

And those two kinds are full of arrogance and taking money illegally.

The resemblance started when [former President George H.W.] %$%$%$%$%$ the father, visited the area, when some of our own were impressed by America and were hoping that the visits would affect and influence our countries.

Then, what happened was that he was impressed by the monarchies and the military regimes, and he was jealous of them staying in power for tens of years, embezzling the public money without any accountability. And he moved the tyranny and suppression of freedom to his own country, and they called it the Patriot Act, under the disguise of fighting terrorism. And %$%$%$%$%$ the father, found it good to install his children as governors and leaders.

We agreed with the leader of the group, Mohammed Atta, to perform all attacks within 20 minutes before [President George W.] Bush and his administration were aware of what was going on. And we never knew that the commander-in-chief of the American armed forces would leave 50,000 of his people in the two towers to face those events by themselves when they were in the most urgent need of their leader.

He was more interested in listening to the child's story about the goat rather than worry about what was happening to the towers. So, we had three times the time necessary to accomplish the events.

Your security is not in the hands of [Democratic presidential nominee John] Kerry or Bush or al Qaeda. Your security is in your own hands. Any nation that does not attack us will not be attacked.

Likwid, did you read my initial post??? Jeez I read this in its entirity,, it mirrors a lot of points in Moore's film He clearly says he want to reclaim his land. What land is that???? Quote: We want to reclaim our nation. As you spoil our security, we will do so to you." Huh, think about it, we never invaded any muslim nation prior to Iraq. He means get the infidels out of the holy lands. Stop AMerican influence. Bin Laden has been attacking the US for years, long before GWB was Pres,
do you agree with him??????
Please tell me what your point is?

This transcript bothers me becaue it is an attempt of an enemy to speak directly to us, you and me. I think its pure propaganda to try to appeal to us. Its eery,

I'm hungry.

What's for dinner?

ps: the gov. in Malaysia is Muslim
the PM or whatever he is is Muslim
Its a muslim controlled country.