starting to wish i never got that new chevy back in feb. :crying:

Again.. there were millions of small business owners who were duped into a huge tax repabate if they bought a vehicle over a certian tonnage... basically a gas guzzler. well, maybe they werent duped, but you could see who would be happy... the business owner, the car maker and the oil co's... now the car owner is paying through the arse to pay for all that gas and the oil company is making all the $$$$$$

hear-hear.

While we all have opinions on how easy it is to just make the change. And I think most of us agree it is already too late and the damage should have been halted long ago. We are behind the proverbial 8-ball now and as spence pointed out - this is a complex issue with no obvious winner. The problems we have cannot all be blamed on Bush - why were there no hydrogen cars during the Clinton Admin. He had 8 years to do something about it....but there are still very few alternative fuel or even hybrid vehicles on the road.

I agree that there is definitely a conflict of interest with all the politicians with there fingers in the oil community. In my opinion there has to be something that can be done. But again, I will refer back to spence - nothing is easy.

Instead of complaining, we could all simply change our lifestyles and stop or minimize our use of foreign oil. I forgot where I read it, but some of the smaller gas station chains do not use foreign oil. All of us with big V-8s that do not require them for our work or families could down size. We could fish much closer spots. We could commute or use public transportation.

But know - we keep our oil guzzling hogs because we like them. We drive 40 miles to fish that special spot when there is local access to water in our same towns. We don't carpool or use public transportation because it is hot, cold, smells, late, early, schedule doesn't allow or because it is just inconvienent.

Then we turn around and complain that politicians simply aren't fixing our problems. When it comes to the national security - I agree we need to get off foreign oil. But if it is simply cost - suck it up and change your lifestyle. Since when did we become a nation of people who don't take matters into our own hands.

Instead of finger pointing - make your own small changes to become less dependant on foreign oil. If everyone stopped complaining and voted with their $$$ things would change. If we all sold our V-8s and bought green vehicles (bio-desiel, hybrid, natural gas), the green vehicles and the cooresponding places to fill them would become more available, with better features, etc. As long as we are willing to stand at the pump and pay $3.00/gallon and not change our habits - we are fluking ourselves.

I keep looking on ebay for a Flux Capacitor, but nuttin yet :eyes:

YUGO's
 

Fishaholic, when Clinton bombed Bosnia the yugo factory was the first to go. I remember watching the news and seeing the only thing left to the sign was the Y and it was hanging cockeyed in a sea of smoke and debris. I don't think they ever started production again.

It certianly can't all be blamed on Bush, but what does suprise me is a failure to push the issue post 9/11. How about a "Carpool for America" campaign or something??? Hell anything!

Without a doubt, the Administration's deep ties to the oil and energy industries are biasing policy decisions that in a post 9/11 world should be much more objective. This "keep shopping" mantra is only going to lead to consumer driven ruin when the shyte really hits the fan and all we can do is reflect on how much we've consumed.

-spence

middleman
 

I'll bet we find that this is the same as the Califonia energy crisis that occured in the 90's where homeowners in that state were forced to pay astonimcal sums for electricity. The government found that middlemen, buyers and sellers of energy working in the same room and sometimes for the same company were buying energy from the guys on the other side of the room in the morning and selling it back to them at an artificially inflated profits to generate sales and comissions. That's my two cents. Bush this morning released some of the government controlled oil reserves. Thats all he controls in this mess.

Flux Capacitator
 

Reel ecstasy,
Saw one the other day for sale cheap. It was listed next to a WIDGIT going half price.

Wow! So many misstatements it amazing! Nitrogen is currently the main plollutant produced by the internal combustion engine (both gas and diesel). Nitrogen does not come from water, which is one part Oxygen and two parts Hydrogen, hence the familiar H2O desgination. The "oil companies", except for those producing in the U.S., don't own the oil they produce, its generally owned by the country its in, i.e. Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Venezuela. So the cost of crude on the open market has little effect on them. The only effect is that when prices go up they make an additonal profit on the oil they have in inventory. (That can be a substantial profit) The big money makers in this run up of oil prices are the producing countries, most of whom belong to OPEC and keep the supplies low. Excess profits taxes on the oil companies may make people feel good, but it won't do anything to stop the rise in prices, since the countries that are reaping the profits don't pay U.S. taxes.

WOW!! i filled my sister's car just this morning in anticipation of the higher prices and it was 2.69. just went back now to fill mine and its already 2.99!!

:crying: :wall: :crying: :wall:

Yup; filled up Yesterday; now big descions is to fish local or drive....
After labor day hopefully we'll see a drop in price....

:hidin: :ss:

Heard on the radio that a station in Bklyn NY just broke the $4 / gal mark today.
On another board I saw a post that the UK is experiencing prices in the $7-8 range per gal, if you convert lbs sterling to us dollars.This is going to get a lot worse before it gets better.
Im thinking of buying a horse and a years supply of Hay.

Straw is cheaper :rotf3:

-spence

Was shocked to pay 2.99 at the pump in NJ this morning and noticed Super at 3.19. Hasn't been that bad here since I can remember. I'm going to start charging my kids when they want a ride somewhere, also giving friends a ride..."Dad, can you give Sabrina, Katrina, and a ride home?" "Sure thing. A dollar for the first half mile and fifty cents a mile after that. No IOU's but if your mother's hot I'll consider her in trade. Now pay up or get out my meter's running."

two oil pipelines
 

are shut down....just because of a lack of electricity....the military and the national guard are on there way and hopefully that scenario will soon be rectified.

Even if we refined Alaskan crude here it would barely effect anything at the pump. A couple cents in a best case scenario, which of course doesn't really matter right now. And you wouldn't see that benefit for at least a decade.

10 billion barrels of oil (best case scenario for Alaska, it could easily be less) isn't much to get excited about since we use 7 billion barrels a year.

what i really wnat to know is what went down in those 'top secret' energy meetings at the whitehouse just before the iraq war went down...

everyone remember those????? :hs:

i dont understand why people love these crooks so much. :huh:

the whole oil thing is a big rip off and i agree the administartion is taking care of 'oilmen" .


the hydrogen fuel thing is another issue. i wouldn't condemn the technology till you really understand it. I have no idea about how the dirty politics is coming into play but overall , someday , we will be burning hydrogen for fuel , its just a matter of time. the entire universe burns hydrgen (fuses it) for energy , we eventually will too. Its a great way to store energy from peak production times to. Lets say you have a wind mill that can generate all you need in the daytime. at night you have excess capacity. right now you have to store the energy in batteries. You could use the energy generation capability off peak to electrolize water and store the hydrogen and oxygen for burning when you need it. Anyway , you get the idea.

I drive a blazer and luckily get 18 to 20 MPG. Not great but i am glad i don't have a 10 MPG huge truck right now!.

the key to short term success is in conservation. the big car companies could forsee the death of the huge vehicles as passenger vehicles , that's why you can buy them so cheap now. remember that $10K you saved on the truck , well you will pay that over the next couple of years in fuel. Too bad , i always wanted to own a suburban for cruising the beaches. Like you own traveling motel! :)

has nothing to do with love of crooks. i hate aspects of the adminstration too. I just do not blame all of our woes on them. Most of the problems we have including energy and ecological issues didn't start a few years ago - they have always been there. And in typical US fashion nothing is done until there is a crisis.

I still would rather have the 'crooks' in the white house. I would rather pay $5 at the pump (consumption - something I control). than the alternative, turning over national security to the UN and a %$%$%$%$ load more social programs taking money from my check each pay period.

where is the
 

backwards engineered ALIEN technology when you need it. :)

Even hemp seed can make a vegetable based diesel fuel...
and there are cars driving around this "whole country" on free dirty
frying oil from restaurants... and what bugs the hell out of me
is all of the fantastic INVENTIONS of new technology carbuerators
that gave you incredible M.P.G. that have been purchased
(patent rights included) by the oil conglomeration that have been
buried away never to be heard of AGAIN.

it's a war about OIL and energy thats for sure.

and shouldn't school buses be one of the first vehicles to utilize
the hybrid engine technology for cleaner take offs from a dead stop
rather than only smaller toyota's...
anyone who's ever been behind a school bus
and has been fumigated with unburnt diesel oil fumes would agree.
the whole friggan roof of a bus could have interchangable solar panels
removable in the winter time because of snow .

we have the TECHNOLOGY.... but it's not being used.
it's either been made illegal...squelched...disposed of
or buried because of MONEY -> it's time for radical change.

now its 3.00 a gallon

the problem has been there, but the bush admin. is amplifying the causes for oil price increases.... ie global conflict. i bet your one of those who thought IRAQ was going to attack us somehow and posed a threat :hs:

:eek: $3.50 in Woods Hole for 87 octane! I just came back with an empty tank. It's higher down hear than other places on Cape, but $3.50???? :eek:

Funny John Kerry and the other corrupt liberal clinton both publicly stated that they believe there was a clear and present danger.

so did Kerry and clinton and the rest of congress (both left and right) conspire with GW's admin and international (Tony Blair) parties to fake a clear and present danger to fight for oil? Don't think so.

I do agree that is why were are still there and think we should have pulled out long ago. I don't care if we wiped out the entire population of Iraq if it meant that one US soldier did not end up with a hang-nail. I say nuke-it, pave-it and take the oil.

$4 very soon..
http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/31/news...ices/index.htm


IMO the price of fuel has more to do the the developement of china and their new demand (which it huge) then anything bush or clinton did or didn't do. It is easy to blame this on either but it is neither ones fault.
I like the price in caracus.

The past and present presidents continue to support a communist country either directly or indirectly.
"Made in China"

Ok Now I sound like a baby but WTF.
Filled up last night @266. This am same station 288. After work went by the same station 308.
How can this be, it's "old" Gas , It should take weeks before it go's up not 24 hrs.

And Sandman, I can't wait to see what I will be paying for gas over 30 days on the island for the derby.

VB

:whackin: :wall: :rocketem:

raven is 100% correct :)

VB