I will be looking for that one nice fish per month......I catch alot of fish but don't lay claim to being a cow killer/catcher......I will be lucky to catch anything worth weighing in knowing full well it will take a fish over 50 pounds to compete overall anyway....so I don't see my catch and kill habit changing in the least......I only keep 2 or 3 fish anyway all season.....and I won't keep a fish to tally overall points anyway as I don't really care for that type of thing. I will be keeping that one nice fish if I am fortunate enough but otherwise I will keep only a couple for the table. I enjoy the camraderie with my fellow fishermen.....this can be a fun event if we treat it right!:bgi:

well spoken
 

bigfish.... you have learned the true essence of fishing.

Guys, I think you took my statement the wrong way. I'm not blaming OTW for beeing greedy, just perhaps shortsighted...

-spence

????
 

its a dig ...it was late last night ,and i was tired, nothing personal..but it sounds like a lot of crying ,over a good intent, as for otw,s mag ,the intent of the derby was to have a good time bass fishing derby not a petty pi$$ing contest ...the opinions good or bad will make to the office for considration trust me ,,DAVE

I believe there was no ill intent on the part of OTW. They just didn't think the whole thing through. I have written to Chris in the past an gotten replies that may not have agreed with me but were his opinion, which is fine. Send him emails or write or call and let your feeling about the tournament be heard. i think they will respond. They don't want a war with their readers.
Let's let calmer heads prevail.

You mean the ones that stretch a tape measure every which way from Sunday over a 28 -1/1000" fish? And keep two rats a fraction of an inch over the limit?

Look at the bright side--if they enter, they'll at least be keeping two fish that probably already had a chance to spawn once. Maybe they'll actually start releasing anything under 34".

I think the entire C&R thing has gone too far. It is not doing anyone any good not even the fish. It is time to bring back catch and keep. According to many "scientific" articles all the fish you release just die anyany so you may as well keep them.

If we don't takem the comm guys will...take all you can while the going is good.

BTW, the 1980s was the best bass fishing in history!!! More large fish were caught then (including several state and world records) then any time in history.

According to official numbers we have too many bass anyway and nothing is in danger because of the fantastic job that the marine fisher depart's do. Go get em! Worry about any problems later.

Stifftip
 

I`m with you here Dave. I was kidding ya back.
I`ve been reading your stuff for years. Been getting OTW ever since 1997 when I moved close to the ocean and starting surf fishing/salt fishing. I appreciate OTW and all your articles and experiences & knowledge you have shared. Missed your articles in the last few years and got used to seeing Steve mention you in his as one of his fishing buds.

Hope this all works out for you and OTW and the Stripers.

Mike

I have to agree with bigfish. I will sign up for the tourney and my fishing "kill" will not be different from last year. I am looking for big fish, I couldn't care less about a 30# or 40# pin. On the other hand, a 50# or 60# is another story. I think a lot of weekly weighers may be commercial fishers who are taking bass anyway. Anyway, I mentioned my concerns about the yearly #age totals to OTW at the nesaltwater show ( I hope you all did the same ) and look forward to the party.

i can see the concern for the possible ill effects of the tournament on the stiped bass population, but i don't see the contest changing the way people keep fish or release them .the serious fisherman isn't going to keep fish just to weught them in unless it is a large fish. that they would probably keep anyways. the average joe who might weigh in a 34 inch probably won't catch 2 a week anyways and if he did he would keep them anyways.

What was that tourney they used to have for Bluefish - was it the Bluefish Boogie? It was pretty big for a while....

Flashback, circa 1992: Joe was at Quaker Lane B&T contemplating paying the $25 to enter - but decided against it as $25 bucks was kind of pricey and he was spending a lot on gas fishing six nights week. Still though, he was getting some big blues and the first prize was a Jeep that he would have looked good in. But ahh...what's the odds of winning?

Long story, short: The very next night, Joe goes out and twangs a 17-pound blue on a needlefish from along Jamestown's eastern shore - besting the Jeep winner by two-pounds.....

What does all this have to do with conservation and the ethics of fishing tourneys?
I have no blinking idea.
I do however know that not winning the new car hurts a lot more when you could have.

My understanding of how the contest works is that bragging rights are awarded to the club with the most points at the end of the season. If you were serious about winning, you would enter your two fish weekly to score the points for your club regardless if they were going to take the monthly top fish prize or not. I can't believe this wouldn't decrease the CnR among those members...

It just seems more than a little gratuitous...low size limit, frequent entries, big prizes for incentive (SUV, Grady White) and a season long duration.

I think with a few tweaks they could balance it a lot more and still put on a great tourney.

-spence

Yes, all there was was big bass, very poor YOY indices, and the fishery collapsed.

Indanite - I'm guessing you have not made up your mind because I can't see which side of the fence you're going to fall off of...

Let's keep this thread as good DEBATE. There is a lot of discussion on this that deserves hashing out more.

I'm pretty confident that OTW had no desire to create a "Kill Tourney" but instead was looking to recreate one of the greatest east coast tourneys in history, the Schaeffer Tournament. While I am personally encouraged by a regional Tourney (undecided if S-B participates as a team - on another thread) I am concerned about the potential fishery impact. Sure, there are plenty of "meat" tourneys around that just about all of us particpate in, typically weeklong / weekend tourneys like MDA, MSBA, Boston Harbor, etc.

So is the question that people would like to see OTW modify & reduce the "Kill Quotient"? And if so, HOW would you recommend it be done?

Increased minimum size ? Not fair to a lot of the noobs or those that can't target in best areas / methods (not that they would win anyway, but they could participate)

Max total of fish weighed in? Set a limit of X amount of fish per month? Set a limit of X amount of fish per person per TOURNEY?

What can be done to make this more conservation friendly?

I am supportive of a Tourney, but I would like to see modifications to reduce the pressure of this tourney and would like to see it further discussed. And, yes, don't look forward to see people cheating in it...

One more thing that I am sure will pi$$ some people off - commercial striped-bass permit holders should not be allowes to submit a fish during their open season. I know, it sucks, start the flame wars, but there is an advantage for them...


BTW - Harpoon makes my favorite beer in the world, doesn't mean I'm going to lay down on the tourney for it :buds:~ regardless of how close it is...

There sure is plenty to think about here. I'm amazed at the number of angles to consider. I'm grateful to you guys for pointing some of them out to me. I can be pretty clueless sometimes.

Questions?
 

Would there be this much controversy if it were named the Bluefish Cup? or the Dogfish Cup? or the Codfish Cup. Seems to me no one would have a problem with those species weighing in 2 a week.
Big blues aren't that easy to find lately up here. I haven't gotten a blue over 15 pounds in quite a few years. But most everyone that has "Striper fever" could cares less about most other species.

I have never fished a MV tourney, that is a month and a half long, but I don't recall this much talk about all those fish that are killed. Is that derby ok since it has been going for 60 years?

I very rarely enter tourneys outside of the ones within my club. But if there is a dollar involved people with be dishonest.

If OTW wants a tourney fine, give them a chance to work out the bugs. I am sure they will make changes yearly to satisfy differing opinions for various groups.

JohnR

Isn`t it very clear that I am undecided? :wavey: It is for me.

If they change it so tons of Stripers are not killed needlessly I`ll enter... if not I won`t and I`ll call, write, email, and post my opinions.

And............ most of the suggestions made to how to change the numbers I made early on when many didn`t say peep or that they would enter without question. At the same time I`ve been back and forth and conflicted but bottom line worried about too many Striped Bass being killed.

Respectfully,
Skitter

The world does not need another reason to kill striped bass, particularly the large spawners. This tournament is short sighted and irresponsible. "Recreating the past" is best left to politicans and old rock stars. On the Water could, and should, do much better for the resource we all have to share.

That other rag keeps a weekly tally at the back of the magazine, that way you know what size fish you would need to beat.


I like the idea of limiting people to so many fish over the life of the tournament.

Although maybe taking a big chunk of the population may not be a bad thing, considering that their food sources are not as plentiful as they should be.

me too Fred:wave:

Not about killin lots o fish for total points.Anymore.killed my share in NJ club tourney's.Definetly not a tree hugger though. i love to eat fish.
All kinds.
Not sure i need any pins either.If it becomes something along the lines of shaeffer i might miss out on ownin some when i'm old an gray an


I said this bout a 6 days ago.

Does anybody pay attention to the NIB.
:wall: :rotf2:
I still admit the Idea of bringin back the history of the tournament as a whole could be a good thing.I ten yr commitment would be nice for starters.I know how do they do that.But a fly by night 2 yr thing would be a real waste of fish an time.Without longevity there is no credability.

Good points but yes, it is a little different. Regs on bluefish are significantly looser than on bass so there is a difference. Cod & Dogfish aren't exactly known for their shorecatch abilitiy. None of the three have anywhere near the glamour and desire of the striped one. In fact, if you look at fish, in our waters, that are available to the usual person, the only thing on par would be freshwater bass. And those tournaments do Catch & Release.

I get 15# or better bluesfish from shore practically every year. I don't weigh them in, even though I would have likely won shore categories of most clubs I am in. Nor do I weigh in Bass that I know would place in tourneys unless I think I will win.

One month long and the system does not encourage the accumulation of points. Sure there are categories and weeklys and dailys but it really gears toward the bigger fish. Is it the most conservation friendly? Probably not. But fish can be donated to the food bank.

Unfortunately agree.

This is interesting as this is open discussion on this exact topic. OTW watches this site and others and will look, hopefully with an open mind, at this discussion and understand that it is just that, discussion. In fact, I would like to see some of them come on board to discuss... I think this tourney can be good but I would like to see it tweaked to be more conservation minded...

The funny thing about this is
 

that most of us only dream about catching a 30 #, 40#, or a 50# FISH. Give OTW a chance at working out the kinks before your wedgie causes blood loss to the extremities.

If every fish over 15lbs HAD to be released, I think your dream would be alot more likely to come true. Killing the largest and most fertile members of a species is not the way you make more large fish. Ensuring that smaller fish have more chance to breed, creates a smaller strain of fish. Ensuring the least efficent breeders breed, creates less fish. Why is that so hard for recreational fisherman to understand?

wooooooow..everbody has a valid opinion,,pro and con... this derby is brand new ,,right out of the box,,every otw dot head is watching this line for comment..and paying attition...the intress is fishing derby not a fishing war !!!!! give them a chance ,,it can only get better...try the derby for one year ,,if you are not happy ,,,then make your opinions know.... loudly !!!!! i like one fish per week per man

indanite ...thanks for remembering me ,,, it makes me feel good that i left a good imperssion when i wrote for the mag...i told only the truth ,about what i knew and were i fished,,my though is the spots were never mine alone ,,but for all of us,,, i know how to share....i,m almost 7 1/2 and i,m a big boy now???????only kiddin,,,

Nobody is against a big derby or against a nice dinner and beer fest afterwards. I like the fun and certainly like the beer. The whole point of the thread is to get the tournament organizers to consider a way in which the tourney can be big and fun without requiring a large fish kill.

I think it would be interesting to hear from the "rules committee" who came up with this current format. Why were the rules written as they are. I would guess in the excitement of planning a blockbuster tourney , nobody even considered the conservation angle. Its just something you have to take into consideration these days.

I never received a response to my 2 e-mails from last year's "OTW" controversial issue. :smash:

there not going to answer every e-mail sent espesaly if there geting flooded with hundreds on the the same issue.As far as the tournament goes NIB said it best,I love the idea they just need to change the rules so less fish are killed.

The only thing I can't figure out is that the OTW folks don't want people to send in any pictures of fish that have been taken/killed. They only want pictures of fish that are alive and look like they will be released. I understand this and the reason that they only want pictures in their magazine that look healthy for the fishery and the sport. But now they sponsor a kill tournament?

The folks that run OTW are good guys, so I'm sure they can make some changes to the tourney before it begins.

I can't imagine how you would run a C&R tourny and control cheating. Esp when it comes to cars and boats as prizes. I bet guys are coming up with cheating schemes as we speak.

The few big boat tournys that are run as C&R require a certified observer on board. I doubt you surf guys will hire an observer to watch out fish.


Once the prizes get big, cheating becomes a real problem. Kill contests are the only way to insure a fair contest. Even then it is tough. Killing a fish is not a sin. God put them on earth for us to eat. BESIDES according to OTW's own recent documents, you could not weigh a fish over 20# an let it go alive, it will die. 100% dead a given fact, so you may as well eat it.