|
Quote:
more on the court case ....http://www.islandfreepress.org/2008A...eResponds.html and i'll be dammed if i can figgure out what is going on ... |
It's mind boggling.
I can't even read that crap without steam coming out of my ears. They make it sound like there are buggies all over every beach, when in fact there are only a few areas available for off road use. But they want it all. Whenever I meet anyone who share those views I invite them to come out with me. Once they see the care and respect that we give the beach and catch a few fish they jump off the bandwagon. So my guess is the enviros have never even had the experience. One of them must have been bored one day and got the rest of them P & M. http://bestsmileys.com/angry1/5.gif |
Here are some questions I would like "them" to answerer:
1. "How many 'drippy leaky SUV's' drive on and off the beach each week?" 2. "Does the Ranger inspect each vehicle before granting a drive on permit?" 3. "Can you provide the scientific data that imperially proves the hypothesis that driving on the beach is having a measurable adverse effect on the habitat?" It sounds like "they" are full of unsubstantiated claims and accusations. |
They were in the middle of coming up with a management plan I believe when the 'special interest group' threw thier .02 into the fire.
Rules and Regs are all part of the mix. These 'special interest groups' do not have a clue. |
duh , ok ...my head is spinning from trying to understand 'legalese' all week ..
but let's see the nps at hatteras basically said no contest and said they weren't going to contest the lawsuit. the counties and chappa picked up the ball and filed this http://www.islandfreepress.org/2008A...Opposition.pdf so i guess we are still in a wait and see whats gonna happen ... a confused brain dead 'derf' |
derf,
Thank you for the link to the pdf. I only got through page 8. But, based on the strength of the language that I am reading thus far....."they" (i.e. "Defenders of Wildlife and The National Audubon Society") are in for it. If this thing gets into court, the NPS attorneys sound like they are going to thread them to shreds. I am going to print out all 36 pages and read it more carefully; I will post back accordingly. -Fish360 I |
OSV users have been losing ground for years. There is no question in my mind that at some point driving on the beach will be history. There are simply too many of "them" and not enough of "us". If the outer banks goes green we will fall soon after, no question, esp if it is decided in a court.
$5 /gallon for your boat and stay off the beach and no fishing with any lead. Mark my words this will happen in our lifetime....time to find a new hobby. |
I have faith in Holland and Knight.
They have won many of these cases. They are also the lawyers for the MBBA. I don't understand legalease but from what I could understand H& K knows what they are doing. |
Mr. Sandman,
I hear you. I really do. But, if I am going to go down, I am going down fighting! I work hard. Play hard. And fight for my freedom even harder! Are there really more of "them", then "us"? I am joininig the OSV community this year with my new vehicle...but, I have been supporting OSV access rights for 3+ years (writing letters, etc). I do not think I am alone. Why? Because the OSV restrictions is just the start. The next stop for "them" is baning surf fishing. Therefore, I think this issue is more of our rights to fish. I think "they" should spend more time going after the legislation that is allowing the commercial fishing industry to deplete the ocean bed of all small bait fish (herring, eels, etc). |
This needs to be passed to everyone you can
This is a notice for all residents and business owners in Dare and Hyde counties. I am currently setting up a meeting for Thursday, March 27, at 6:30 p.m. at the Fessenden Center in Buxton. This will be a public meeting to describe in detail all of the current access issues, including the request by environmental groups for a temporary injunction to close portions of the beaches to off-road vehicles, the lawsuit over the Park Service’s Interim Plan for managing the beaches, and the negotiated rulemaking process to devise a long-term plan. Warren Judge, chairman of the Dare County Board of Commissioners, will be here to speak to us about these issues. We will be bringing all the current issues to the table and discussing what you might expect could happen to our beach access. Over the past several months, I have heard numerous islanders and homeowners say that they have no idea about what is transpiring or that they believe it is not possible for any form of government to close our beaches. Unfortunately, the severity of the situation is greater than you know or believe. The request for a temporary injunction will be heard on April 4 in U.S. District Court in Raleigh. If it is granted, Bodie Island spit, Cape Point and South Beach, Hatteras Inlet and the north and south points of Ocracoke will be closed to ORVs. You could be looking at full closures of these areas until the federal courts have heard the lawsuit against the Interim ORV Plan. If a judge decides in favor of the groups that have brought this lawsuit, there would be a full closure of all ORV access. The time has come to learn about this situation or to become a believer that this could happen. Don't believe that your state government is coming to help you. Governor Easley has yet to show one ounce of support, and you will not even get a reply from Sen. Elizabeth Dole. Congressman Walter Jones and Senator Marc Basnight have both condemned the ruthless tactics of the special interest groups that are trying to take away your ORV access. However, the federal government supercedes the state government, and there is not a lot they can do at the moment. So, if you want to hear all of the current information or just learn what is going on, then I encourage you to attend. I am working hard to put this together, and I hope to encourage a few other local leaders to come and speak about just how dire this situation really is. If you are not a believer, just show up and we will make you one. Sincerely, Rob Alderman |
|
derf,
I love that picture of the OSVs on the beach! Did you see that point and white water? I gotta fish this beach. Road trip. Mr. Sandman...that is a lot of OSVs! "United we stand, Divided we fall" |
More than 600 people packed into the Fessenden Center in Buxton on March 27 to learn more about future public access to six popular beach areas on the Cape Hatteras National Seashore.
Rob Alderman, owner of Hatteras Island Fishing Militia, a surf-fishing guide service, organized the meeting to provide residents and visitors with information on an April 4 court hearing that could result in the closure of areas at Oregon Inlet, Cape Point, South Beach, Hatteras Inlet and Ocracoke Island. Another informational meeting will be held tonight, Wednesday, April 2, at 6:30 p.m. at First Flight High School. "To think that this will only impact ORV [off-road vehicle] use just isn't true. People won't be allowed to walk in these areas either" explained Dare County Commissioner Allen Burrus. On Friday, April 4, Judge Terrence Boyle of the US District Court for the Eastern District of North Carolina will hear arguments in a request for a temporary injunction against beach driving on the seashore. In February, the Southern Environmental Law Center, representing the National Audubon Society and the Defenders of Wildlife, requested the injunction until their lawsuit against the National Park Service is resolved. The lawsuit contends that the park service has failed to manage beach driving in ways that protect shorebirds and sea turtles. The park has used an interim plan to temporarily protect endangered or threatened animals and plants until a long-term management plan for ORV use is in place. In 1972, Richard Nixon signed an executive order requiring the National Park Service and other federal public land managers to develop policies controlling ORV use, but the long-term ORV plan for Cape Hatteras National Seashore is still several years from completion. "It's not the public's fault that the park service didn't do their job for the past 30 years. I only hope Judge Boyle will have mercy on the public" said John Couch, president of the Outer Banks Preservation Association, Thursday. Bobby Outten, attorney for Dare County, told the audience at the Fessenden Center that the interim plan adequately controls beach driving while protecting shorebirds and other natural resources. "But, the signals we are getting is that the judge is still attached to the presidential executive order" explained Outten. Outten said Dare County, as one of the interveners in the lawsuit, could appeal the court's decision on the temporary injunction, but that an appeal might take anywhere from six to 18 months. "So even if we were to appeal a decision we didn't like, we clearly would be impacted this season and most likely next season" he said. Frank Folb, a member of the stakeholders committee helping to develop an ORV plan, showed maps of the pre-nesting closures going into effect under the interim plan this spring. Folb noted that the closures were larger than last year. "But, here's the depressing part" he said as maps of closed areas under a temporary injunction were shown to the audience. "These areas would be closed year-round to vehicles and pedestrians for the next three years. There'd be nothing left for humans. You couldn't even take a boat into the beach" he said. Couch reminded the audience that the official name of the seashore is the Cape Hatteras National Seashore Recreation Area. "It's not called a wildlife area, but what is happening today is that the Southern Environmental Law Center, the Defenders of Wildlife and Audubon are carving out six more wildlife refuges on our island" he said. Warren Judge, chairman of the Dare County Board of Commissioners, urged people to contact their federal representatives. "Congress has intervened before, and we need Congress to act now. We have just seven days from tonight to make a difference" he said Thursday. NC Senate President Pro Tempore Marc Basnight has asked the state's Congressional delegation to pass legislation "as soon as possible to clarify the Park Service's previously expressed intent to maintain public access, particularly vehicle access, to the Seashore". Chris Dillon, Basnight's special projects director, said Congress had taken similar action over the use of snowmobiles at Yosemite National Park. NC Representative Tim Spear has also weighed in on the issue, asking the state Attorney General to consider intervening on behalf of the citizens of North Carolina. "The citizens of our state stand to lose a fundamental right of access to publicly owned lands in one of the most beautiful and most sought after recreational areas in our state" wrote Spear in a March 18 letter to Attorney General Roy Cooper. Spear also said the beach closures would harm the economies of not only Dare and Hyde counties but also the state. |
http://www.cyberpeasantphoto.com/umsbuxtonvideos
Good Evening Everyone If you are a NCBBA member please vote online at www.ncbba.org. For those of us that could not attend the meeting in Buxton last week The video was published by the Island Free Press, Editor Irene Nolan. We are grateful for Irenes contribution to Hatteras, Ocracoke Island and to all of us that reside elsewhere but support Open Beach Access with our many friends on the Islands. |
thank you for the video link
...watching them now..
If a picture is worth 1,000 words... a moving pictures are worth 1,000,000,000 words! This is even more serious that I had imagined. The "magnitude" of this is HUGE. I dare not image the political ripple effects... I am so glad to learn that there are some people fighting to keep the beach open to SOVs. |
FYI...
I am the Stakeholder Representative on the Negotiated Rulemaking Committee and am charged with representing the National Fishermen's interests. Also, being the Executive Director of UMS (United Mobile Sportfishermen) and the RFA National Shore Access Rep, I am very very involved in this fight. As of today (Thursday evening) I can confirm there is a settlement negotiation ongoing between the NPS and the Plaintiffs aka The Big Three (Defenders of Wildlife, National Audobon & Southern Environmental Law Center). Today, NPS filed for a one week extension to the hearing on the injunction that is scheduled for tomorrow. The request was not answered today so we do not know what is going to happen tomorrow. The judge could take many roads. Bottom line is anything more severe than the interim plan will be devestating. If you see the videos posted earlier in this thread you will understand. The short term does not look good from any angle and the hope for long term preservation of access is up in the air. I can say that the fight is serious and more severe than any before. We have the "best" group ever assembled to wage this battle and are dealing with things in a no holds barred manner. In the end, this fight will come down to lawyers, lobbyists and money. If you care about beach access make sure you support local and national organizations with membership dues and donations. That is how we wage this war. I will post an update as I know more. |
Thanks Patrick,
I am not involved at all, I am just on an email list and wanted to keep all who is interested informed. that last post I posted sounded like I wrote it and I just cut and pasted it is all |
Patrick,
Thank you for the update. If you could keep us posted via this thread, that would be great. I just joined M.S.B.A. Good luck with this pivotal OSV access issue. -Fish360 |
Yesterday the Injunction hearing was held.
the Judge "indicated" he was prepared to issue and injunction but did also speak in a way that seemed to split the two sides arguements. NPS & the Plaintiffs (Enviros) asked for an extension as they were near a settlement. We (Pro access) are not hopeful of a settlement we can live with. As you can imagine there is a alot of strategy talk and discussion with the lawyers underway. Bottom line is we ahve at least another week before getting a significant bit of info. A lot of the message boards are burnign hot on this. We just don;t know yet. I can say it does not look good for the short term. |
posted on the 'fishin militia ' board by rob ...
Quote:
|
frank folb's view on the 'hearing' yesterday
(frank folb owns 'frank and fran's tackle shop , and is involved in the reg-neg negations going on .) Quote:
|
ok more info , and it fills in the blanks and answers some ?? i had ..
and i've been following this or at least trying to for years now ... http://www.islandfreepress.org/2008A...ze.htmlhttp:// |
Good Afternoon Friends...Negotiated Rulemaking is set to continue in May...The law suit and the request for preliminary injunction that was continued pending a settlement has taken a turn this afternoon...I think the Dare county press release says all there is to say. More when I know...pray for those that live on Hatteras, they may loose their livelyhood in the short term.
For Immediate Release: Dare County April 11, 2008 Contact: Public Relations Office 475-5900 darecountypr@darenc.com Beach Driving Negotiations Stall Dare County, the National Park Service, Defenders of Wildlife, and the National Audubon Society were unable to reach an agreement this week on parameters for beach driving in the Cape Hatteras National Recreational Seashore. Defenders of Wildlife and the National Audubon Society are Plaintiffs in a lawsuit for a preliminary injunction that would prohibit beach driving in the Cape Hatteras National Recreational Seashore. Last week Judge Terrence Boyle continued the hearing to allow time to finalize a settlement known as a “consent agreement” between the parties. Negotiations went into the evening on Wednesday, and lawyers for all sides had reached agreement on parameters for a resolution to present to their respective clients. They had agreed on buffers for nesting birds that would create opportunities for recreational access. Those buffers may have caused closures depending on the movement of the birds, but the opportunity for access would still be available. On Thursday when the two sides met to finalize the details of the agreement, it became clear the Plaintiffs were not willing to agree to the terms discussed in previous meetings. The National Audubon Society and Defenders of Wildlife expanded the size of buffers they were willing to accept to a size that would effectively eliminate opportunities for access and eliminated 5 of the 6 areas of concern from consideration. Since the changes proposed by the Plaintiffs on Thursday evening essentially eliminated opportunities for access, Dare County and the other Interveners could not agree to those terms. Talks toward an agreement were terminated, and a date for a hearing has not been set. Dare County Public Relations Department (252) 475-5900 - Office (252) 473-4594 - Fax |
I see it's clear where there agenda is, and it is no access for anyone but animals
|
As a young man i sat at town meeting and discussed weather land should be turned over to the feds for a seashore park or kept in private hands. The greatest concern was weather we could continue to use the land as we had always done such as beach fishing out of beach buggies, driving down the beach in winter to duck hunt ,fetch washed up fishing gear, driving to beach camps, picking beach plumbs and rose hips for jelly, clamming and other shell fishing and now i have to see if some member of a wildlife club who lives in middle America and has never seen the shore is going to change the way i live, my children live, and my grand children live.
|
The word that comes to mind to describe these eco-fanatics is: provincial.
They do not want a solution that benefits everyone. They only want a solution that benefit the birds. There are species in greater danger of extension then these birds...and nothing is done. Go figure. I gotta stop...blood pressure is rising.... I'll re-post once I cool down again. -Fish360 |
Late News...I should not comment further than the following story however I will caution that this may or may not be good news...more whn I can talk freely.
Still watching and waiting: Parties agree to settlement of beach-driving lawsuit; Public may know details on Wednesday, April 16 By IRENE NOLAN The three parties involved in the lawsuit to regulate beach driving along Cape Hatteras National Seashore announced on Friday evening, April 11, that they have agreed in principle to a settlement of the case. Terms of the proposed consent decree cannot be discussed at this time, according to attorneys involved in the case. The parties are filing a joint motion in U.S. District Court to continue the case until Wednesday, April 16, to allow the Defendant-Intervenors (Dare County Commissioners, Hyde County Commissioners, and the board of the Cape Hatteras Access Preservation Alliance) to vote on the proposed settlement. Assuming that the settlement is approved by the intervenors, the public will know the details of the agreement when the consent decree is filed in the court on Wednesday, according to Jason Rylander, attorney for the Defenders of Wildlife. The following are statements from attorneys representing the environmental interests in the case, as well as those representing Dare County and recreational users of Cape Hatteras National Seashore, that were released this evening. Derb Carter, Southern Environmental Law Center: “We are pleased to have all parties to the case at the negotiating table and in agreement in principle. We will continue to work to ensure that the natural resources and public enjoyment of Cape Hatteras National Seashore move forward hand in hand and look forward to filing a proposed consent decree next week.” Jason Rylander, Defenders of Wildlife: “We’re pleased to have come to an agreement in principle with all three parties to this important issue. While we can not discuss the terms of the proposed settlement, we remain committed to preserving the wildlife along the Seashore while allowing for continued recreational access to this unique natural area.” Statement from Bobby Outten and Larry Libesman, attorneys for Defendant-Intervenors: "Bobby Outten, Dare County Attorney, and Larry Liebesman , Holland and Knight LLP , outside counsel for Defendant-Intervenors, are very pleased that the parties have reached agreement in principle and will recommend to intervenors that the settlement be approved as soon as possible next week. John Couch, president of the Outer Banks Preservation Association, has indicated that he will recommend approval of the settlement to his board as soon a possible." Mike Murray, Superintendent, Cape Hatteras National Seashore: “This is the best of all possible outcomes. I am very pleased all parties have reached an agreement in principle.” Attorneys for the environmental groups and the federal government had announced on April 2 that they had reached an agreement to settle the lawsuit and the request for a temporary injunction to halt ORV use on popular areas of the seashore until the lawsuit is settled or until the National Park Service has a long-term ORV rule. The attorneys asked U.S. District Court Judge Terrence Boyle for a continuance of a planned April 4 hearing on the injunction request until April 11 so they could work out the details. Attorneys for the intervenors opposed the continuance. In his courtroom on April 4, Boyle granted the continuance and also said that he preferred that the intervenors, representing the public, be involved in a settlement, though he did not say what role they should play. All three parties – plaintiffs, defendants, and intervenors -- had been meeting this week in an attempt to reach a settlement. Earlier today, Dare County had issued a press release that said they were unable to reach an agreement and the talks were “terminated.” Also, earlier today, Boyle issued an order in the case that granted the intervenors’ motion of April 1 to file supplemental information to oppose the request for an injunction, and he denied the motion of the plaintiffs, the environmental groups, to strike, or not allow, the information because it had not been filed in a timely manner. |
settlement details ...
|
I cannot believe what I just read...
"The end result of the settlement is that management of seashore resources is now in the hands of Judge Boyle and the private, special-interest groups that negotiated the terms of the settlement without input from the public." Source: http://www.islandfreepress.org/2008A...ettlement.html ...and the ironic part of this is that the taxpayers (we the people) are going to pay for it. Go figure. |
I just popped on to post the same article...I can tell you all that the statement about the pro access intervenors had no choice is very telling. Honestly, I think this is going to get even get worse before it get's better. Bottom line is pro access/pro fishing groups are struggling for money in this fight and we are getting outspent for lawyers, for lobbyists, for advocates expenses at all points. RFA is going to announce a dedicated account just for the shore access program but without support it is tough to win. Negotiated Rulemaking continues in May.
|
| All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:41 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1998-20012 Striped-Bass.com