I'm flattered to see so much thought was put into your hypothesis George. However, your thought process and deductive reasoning is flawed in this instance. I would also prefer to call this a discussion rather than dragging it down to the inevitable argument. Some people you may not know as well as you think you do. I really see no need for investigative reporting to root out the perpetrators. Bluff? No, I'm not playing poker here.
I realize you're a plugger and proud of it. The method obviously brings you a lot of pleasure between the building and the fishing and in the end, the catching.Please try not to take it personally. I've seen and admired your work and would love to own one.And no, not to sell on ebay. I'm not saying I don't plug at all. I'm just saying my method for targetting trophies is live bait.No need to try and read between the lines here. By the way, I too have caught my fair share of 30# class fish on jigs and wood.I also know of plug only charter captains that slay with wood. If the method had produced the results I have gotten with live bait we would not be having this discussion.Try to keep your faith in mankind without making assumptions based on your imagination.

as with anything...i think it is whatever floats your boat..i pretty much only fish plugs, topwater at that...have seen plugs outfish eels and bait many many times...although live-lining a bunker now and again is pretty fun...

Actually the best of both worlds, and beats the sh!t out of the mess of rigged eels and the caring of live eels, is a skin on a needlefish!

Never leave home without them.:kewl:

OK, I'll buy that very interesting bit of information.....though it certainly reflects poorly on someone no longer around to defend his reputation.

I must say my "faith in mankind" has been dented a bit by the above. Regardless, although I am proud of catching fish on plugs I build, I can't think of a fish I have caught in years that I'd be proud of based on size alone. Which is EXACTLY why I choose to fish plugs. I could fish eels, scup, bunker, shad, and even fluke every bit as well as anyone you know (I have the boat skills and knowledge and equipment to do so), and undoubtably I'd catch more large fish, but I reject the proposition that the size or number of fish one catches is the best measure of accomplishment. I think the obstacles overcome in making a catch are far more meaningful.

What gets my dander up is the suggestion that big fish do not fall to plugs. They obviously do, even if the level of difficulty at accomplishing it is beyond what you are interested in investing in fishing to get out of the sport what you want. To discourage others from trying is more self serving than helpful.

Glory...:uhuh:

Long time ago my great uncle landed a 63 lber on a pencil in the canal. He was a friend of Stan Gibbs and I believe they were fishing together on that day, along with my father at a very young age. Big fish can be caught on plugs. Big fish can be caught on eels. I'm sure guys using bright yellow Benny's special rods have hooked into big fish. In my opinion it shouldn't matter whether you fish plugs or bait, going large is an accomplishment regardless. Although I do fish plugs, jigs, and plastics almost exclusively, I occasionally enjoy throwing an eel or live lining a bunker, and I've had decent success with both the artificials and the real things.

Put on a tandem rigged 14" black Hogy with eel scent on it and you are good to go!!!

George, I chose to leave names out of this discussion to protect both the innocent and guilty.I was surprised you decided to go down that road to be honest.
As far as what makes YOU happy when fishing,that is also none of my business.Catching fish is not a matter of pride to me,only satisfaction,regardless of method.I have to say it is MY experience that eels provide more opportunities for BIG fish and a host of others seem to agree. Certainly,as I and others have stated already plugs can also yield impressive results so please get your danderuff down. As I type this I am making plans to go to Westport in my modest tin boat and plug this evening like the rest of the charlatan's. And I am hoping for a cow regardless.
People like yourself who consider themselves purists because of their preference in styles will continue to amuse me with their lack of respect for others accomplishments based solely on plugs vs. bait or shore vs. boat. Cosider yourself fortunate you are able to invest the time necessary to become a prolific angler with plugs but to show distain for those who use other tactics seems petty.I suggest a healthy respect for your fellow angler based entirely on your love of the sport. Something that we ALL seem to share.

It's all ballbearings nowadays, maye you guys need a refresher course?

When guys like Cinto, Tim Coleman and Stetzko got their big fish, the freebie possibilities weren't there. Coleman was the editor of The Fisherman--he probably had freebies stacked on his desk like cordwood. The last thing he probably needed was more free plugs :rotf2:

In Cinto's case--if the fish was caught on an eel, and he told the truth, it would have been accepted as a world record. Why would he lie about catching it on a plug, when saying that it was caught on a lure with multiple trebles (not accepted by IGFA as legit at the time) disqualified it? :confused:

Nowadays? Sure. Guys do it. And some guys, who write, have been known to trash certain plugs in print precisely because the builder wouldn't grease them. The internet's made it even worse. The old saying, "believe half of what you see and nothing of what you hear" has never held more water than on internet fishing sites. ;)

Bottom line: over the course of the season, over the vast majority of fishing terrain in the Northeast, you will hang more big fish on eels than on any piece of wood, plastic or lead. It's not even open to debate. If I was still fishing for the buck, you bet yer arse I'd be slinging snakes, especially in the last hour and a half of the west tide, and the first couple of the east, in the Canal :humpty:

Chris, I think you have made an excellent point and should be applauded for your honesty and convictions of sticking with what you believe.:claps::claps::claps:

this is getting interesting, but to get away from the controversial stuff.... like a few have mentioned, it's all about your confidence. Of course if you are like me and really depend on live eels at night, then of course your confidence is going to be low without them.
It's just like on the kayak now, if I don't have a tube and worm with nice fresh worms, my confidence goes way down trolling or casting sluggos or plugs.

Is there a chance? Yes, here are my thoughts.

I've caught nice fish at dawn and dusk before on plugs so full moon is the same conditions. The key factor for me has been large surf/white water and water depth. White water makes the fish feed with its lateral line - its looking for movement. Shadows are key areas as well, large boulders and getting out far with the wetsuit helps tremendously.

Obviously if I had my choice its a dark moon phase and always eels, but this has worked for me.

Nope not me!
Chris,
At this point with 4 day's left in the Tourney & with the perfect alignment of negative tides,moon phase,bait,water temp & ideal weather IMHO Thursday & Friday morning will be the time Togo but not with shoestring eels.......It's just not worth the gas,money,and sleep deprivation,I can't se the point in waking up 6 hrs. before work to drive down to the kill zone with intentions of going large but instead to have all those thoughts deflated buy micro eels balling up on me or just as bad not being able to cast out far enough for a proper offering No thanks I'll have to pass.


Bob

Forgive me, Father, for I have sinned. I mistook your prophet Chris' word when he began his noble purpose by saying, "....... we know that without eels we stand a snowballs chance in hell of catching a trophy bass. Is there anyone who thinks they stand a legitimate chance for a trophy with jigs or plugs?.......", when in fact he clearly meant, " Certainly,as I and others have stated already plugs can also yield impressive results".... In my ignorance I compounded my sin by causing him to slander the names of those too holy to mention, and then challenging the holiest of commandments, "Thou shalt killest the mostest and biggest fish thoust can by any means that is most efficent, and displayest those fish for all to admire and give praise, soest thou might attain great fame and personal fortune and groweth bigger testicles than those other chumps, to help find thoust's #^&#^&#^&#^& as thy belly swells with the fruits of thy fortune". But thank you lord for thy mighty apostle, Chris, who has shown me the evil error of my petty purist ways and the smallness of my testicles. For pennance let me split asunder my flyrod over my wetsuit's knee, toss away to the currents my unholy wooden idols, and carry Back Beach's eel bucket all the days of my life, gaining sustance only from it's dregs once the night's work is done. And if I do, oh lord, please make this dandruff and distain (and Flap too if you don't mind) go away, so when I die I should be worthy to enter thy kingdom, Rhode Island.

Amen

this is the best eel vs plugs thread ever...:kewl:

This is the article from the 1914 Field and Stream I have which recounts the catching of the (then) world's record striped bass in1913 as told by Charles Church in his own words. I gave the article to Mike Dauphin who now uses it on his website - it's an interesting read for any of you not familiar with it.

"On August 17th, last past, in company with my brother-in-law, Carl F. Kraut, I started out in my 13 foot smack-boat to try my luck at striped-bass fishing. We sailed down to the south side of Nashwena Island to some favorite bass pools of mine, for I have fished these pools for 28 years. Nashwena Island is one of the Elizabeth Islands. This group of islands extends from Woods Hole to the Sow and Pigs Light Boat and separates Buzzards Bay from Vineyard Sound. We had had a strong breeze from the southwest for three days, and there was a heavy swell running and the water was quite thick, which is favorable for bass fishing. Going through Cannapitsit it was quite rough, so I did not stop on the point but kept on down to the big bend, which is about midway of Nashwena Island. I took in my little sprit-sail and Carl took the oars; as we neared the shore I noticed there was quite a lot of seaweed floating on the water, so I said to Carl , "We will try the bend, but it looks as if we can't fish here." I took my rod, which is made of bamboo, tip being 6 feet 6 inches, and weighs 11 ounces, butt 12 ounces, and was made by Abbie and Imbrie of New York. I then took a dry flour bag, as I use live eels for bait at that time of year, and took hold of an eel about 12 inches long and hooked the 7/0 limnick bass hook through the lips of the eel, which was very lively. I then reeled the eel up to about two feet from the end of my rod, ready for a cast. Carl then backed the boat in towards the shore, keeping her headed towards the surf, for the nearer shore you get, the rougher it is and we had to keep just outside the breakers, for it is all rocks and each rock is covered with rockweed and every swell that rolls in this rockweed washes in and the undertow washes it out again, ready for the next sea."

"Getting close in as we dared to, I cast the eel into the surf within two feet of the beach and then I reeled it in towards me just fast enough so that it would not get in under one of the many rocks that are there. When I got the eel close to the boat I noticed there was some long eel-grass on the hook , so I took a match out of my pocket and bent it onto my line about two feet above my hook so it would catch this eel-grass and in that way, keep my eel as clear as possible. I then made another cast and felt a strike, so I said to Carl "Hold on!" but the fish did not take it."

"I will here have to explain a little so you will understand that when a striped-bass sees an eel he swims by it, striking it with his tail, which stuns the eel and it sinks, then he grabs the eel by the head and he swallows it. This is when you strike him. Now, you see, when I felt the strike I said "Hold on!" for Carl knows what's coming. If he had kept rowing I could not have let the eel sink, or, if I kept reeling him towards the boat, he would not sink; so, you see, it is very important that your oarsman knows his job, for in the surf it is very easy to get tipped over and both of you have got to be wide awake all the time. I then made another cast and very quickly had another strike, but he would not bite. I said to Carl, "He must be a small one; perhaps there is another one with him. Let's try the five-rock pool" (which is only about 100 feet to the eastward). Carl kept the bow of the boat off, as the wind was still southwest, and we soon got abreast of the pool. I then made a cast in front of the two inshore rocks and behind the three off-shore ones. The eel had hardly struck the water when I had a strike and said I, "This is something else!" for I saw a whirl which I knew was made by a large bass. I waited for a few seconds before I struck him, for he was swimming round and round in a circle, my line lying loose on the water. I did not dare strike him up and down, because a bass has a row of sandpaper teeth in the center of his upper jaw and if your line hits that it will cut like a razor and you will lose your fish. Carl was as wise to the situation as I, and he pulled hard on one oar, splashing it all he could. That scared the fish and he started off for deep water, going by the boat on the west side, so I could strike him sideways and the line would draw down in the side of his jaw, for all bass caught with live eels should have the hook down in their stomach if handled properly. I use a thumb-stall knit out of twine on my left thumb, and just as soon as I strike the fish I hold the rod straight up in the air in my left hand, my thumb against the reel, the butt pressing against my stomach."

"The fish started off-shore; so did Carl, for deep water was the only place for us to save him. He took about 100 yards of line on the first rush, then he started to roll, but I reeled up on him so hard he came like lightening right for us and ran under the boat. But Carl was watching the line as well as I , and was turning the boat as fast as he could, so that when the fish ran under the boat and got on the other side, my line was all clear. Then he made for shore full speed. I yelled for him to pull hard to the westward , holding all the strain the rod would stand and shearing the fish to the south. I kept him clear of the three large rocks, but he went around one large rock to the eastward of them, so Carl backed water for all he was worth directly east 'til we got south and east of this rock, then we backed due north so I could draw the fish clear from that rock before he cut my line off."

"It was awfully rough and the boat would ride way up in the air on some of those swells so I could hardly keep my feet. I held the rod just as high as I could, and we took in about a half barrel of water, when the fish started for the boat, going out across the stern for the southeast and then off-shore for about 150 yards, for I did not attempt to hold him very hard, as I wanted to get offshore myself. I was getting tired and Carl was all wet, as well as tired. The fish lay quite still 'til I reeled almost up and down on him, and we were in seven fathoms of water, then he would run a short way, but he was getting tired like ourselves."

"We had no idea as to how large he was then, but when I undertook to raise him to the surface my rod bent so I was afraid I would break it. Carl yelled "For cat's sake, don't lose him!" He rowed away from the fish and I had to bring him to top water that way. Probably I was 50 yards from where I started to lift that fish alongside the boat. After getting him on top of water, it was so rough and the tide was running so heavily to eastward against the southwest wind that we had some job. Carl backed down toward the fish slowly , while I reeled in the line 'til I got within 50 feet, then he took in his oars and got ready the gaff hook. I led the fish alongside, but the tide would set him so fast to the eastward, with the sea and the wind blowing us northeast, that it was only after three attempts that I got him alongside, where Carl could get at him."

"I knew it was all off when he reached for him, for he was never known to miss one, but when he took the bass over the side of the boat I noticed he rolled in; as a rule Carl lifts them clear of the gunwale, so I said, "Some fish!"

"After we had weighed the fish we could hardly believe it ourselves, but it certainly was a beauty, 73 pounds, good and strong. My reel was made by J.B. Crook of New York. It is a German silver reel, one that my grandfather had and must be 100 years old, for I have used it for 28 years. My line is a Hall line, 15 thread. I like the Hall lines better than any other for the reason that the dye does not come out and leave the line rotten, like the other lines, and I have used a lot of them."

"I was born on Cuttyhunk, and have fished with all the old members of the Cuttyhunk Club. Last year I caught 38 bass; this year only 17. I have used all kinds of bait, but there is nothing like a live eel, only don't do what almost everybody else does: strike when you feel their bite, for the bite is his tail striking the eel."

"I hope I have made it plain for your readers, so that those who have not caught a bass can realize the sport there is in it."


Charles B. Church, Gosnold, Massachusetts

Date - August 17, 1913
Weight - 73 lbs.
Length - 5 ft.
Girth - 30 ½ in.
Where Caught - Vineyard Sound, Massachusetts
Rod - Abbie and Imbrie, 6 ft. 6 in., 11 oz. bamboo
Reel - J.B. Crook
Line - 15-thread Hall
Lure - Live eel

Literally laughed out loud Slingah, thanks for that.

I think fishing plugs is the hard way to go . I think its the most challenging and humbling . Thats exactly why it holds my intterest . I've fished with people who's know how and skill level is better than mine ,only for the time and effort they've put in . Building plugs just adds to it . To me the ultimate goal of a plug fisher is to imitate live bait . The perfect plug , the right place,,the right time,,the perfect retrieve. All the lessons learned should eventaully payoff . When plug fishing is good its hard to beat every cast catching and top water explosions. If I was going strictly for large I'd fish eels,,chunks and re-bar.. fish and let fish ..

If I were you I would get yourself to the nearest church and while lying prostrate before the altar and pary to Gog on high to remove these evil thoughts from your soul while repeating the holy mantra of the plug fisherman,

"Oh Lord, My God, the only one true God, I lay before you beseaching thy divine providence (not Rhode Island) and give me the strength to resist the temptation , unlike Adam, the first man who many believe falsely was created, in a garden in Narragansett, to taste the forbidden fruit of the eel, that wicked wicked serpent, whom does tempt all fishers to sell thier immortal soul to easier ways and thereby become loathsome unto you oh Lord, for only you know that by forsaking that evil serpent and accepting that the one true way to your kingdom is to take the wood, the same wood that carried your son home to you, the same wood that he suffered and died upon for our salvation, and to fashion from it the likeness of your most wonderful creatures of the deep and from that and guided by your hands on mine at my lathe, as your son once did in Nazareth, cast it into thy most wonderful sea, and take that seas most wonderous inhabitant, created by your goodness and care, the Striped Bass, as it should be rightly taken and then once taken released to live again with the memory of it's splendor and your righteous glory"

Amen

Try it, what the F()ck do you have to loose?:huh:

:rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotf2::rotf2:

I don't know who "Gog on high" is but he sounds dangerous so I ain't planning to do any parying with him, even if I am lying about my prostate.

I'd be careful there....last person that messed that word up ended up part of a class Action Suit

forgot to the answer question ... Yes .. I would fish without eels .. plug bite is on !! now !! .. Flap ,, to frickin funny .. :rotf2::jump1:

I am glad to see all are taking this seriously.
My answer is me, well usually.
Stay tuned next week when we explore the New testament and the question: Is using flyes with leaden eyes sacrilegious?

thats what works down here for the big girls - or live lining them in the spring

Jesus, Mary and Joseph, these Sand People are a nutty bunch...:smokin:

Apology accepted
Now we shall move on to understanding hyperbole my son

3 Hail Marys and a couple Our Fathers and you will be good to go George. Thanks for the laugh. I am glad I don't take fishin as serious as youzz guys.
George's Hail Mary

http://www.themadmusicarchive.com/so...x?SongID=29692