Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

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Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating (http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/index.php)

- Grumpy Old Pharts Board (http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/forumdisplay.php?f=41)

- - What happened to Made in America? (http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/showthread.php?t=55183)

Adam_777

02-16-2009 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnR (Post 665114)

Its not the "bad engineering" so much as the overall costs. When a GM or Ford needs to keep a model for 7 years between redesigns to realize a profit on that model and a Toyota or Honda can go 4-5 years between major redesigns. If it costs 2 billion dollars to design a car - forget building it or the parts - and a Japanese manufacturer can get that back in 33% less time they can spend on more and faster engineering.

Americans, can build and engineer fine. They have also learned lots from their mistakes of the 70s and 80s, not foolproof but significantly better with a very tight quality gap, but from a labor costs they've been fighting with one hand behind their back for some time... (I still can't explain though why I hear Power Steering whine from a new Ford or GM, WTF? )

I've had 5 new American built vehicles (4 Fords + 1 Chevy) from the 90s and 2000s and 3 Toyotas in the late 80s and I have been extremely please will ALL of these vehicles. In the past 11 + years I've been putting my money where my mouth is and happily buying American.

I would suggest some of the people beyotchin about it buy a domestic vehicle or at least one that is build here (surprisingly high amount)....

One thought about the Global economy though, agree or not agree, it is believed that the integrated global economies have prevented regional or perhaps larger wars. For example, Pakistan -v- India, and China -v- Taiwan/US. Less likely to kick off war if it is bad for business (of course, if business is bad :eek5: )

All good points.So the supposed high wages they pay the Union guys effects the overall price of the vehicle ,which effects the amount of profit the company makes ,which in turn effects how often new vehicles can be engineered and old redesigned.I guess it could be a legit excuse if the numbers added up on a much higher level.If not it would be just another ploy put out to try and fool the public into believing it's all the evil unions fault:af: .I may have to look deeper into this problem and see what I can dig up.

Raven

02-16-2009 05:35 PM

2 billion ??

to build a new car.... that's CRAP!! not that your saying ADAM

but that it costs that much... i know, i know dies and molds
and all that....

but hey, many Americans are converting cars to all electric inside their own garages for $7000.00 bucks with readily available parts.

Raven

02-16-2009 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam_777 (Post 664758)

Fire the Union and employ illegal immigrants for less than minimum wage.Then you'd be happy buying made in the USA products ?:conf:

I doubt that.... because i don't believe the car companies would lower the price if it cost them less $$ cash per vehicle to assemble them .

Adam_777

02-16-2009 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raven (Post 665172)

I doubt that.... because i don't believe the car companies would lower the price if it cost them less $$ cash per vehicle to assemble them .

You know that for sure!They would pocket the profits just the same and complain they are paying them too much.Then say the price per vehicle,bla bla bla would end up burying the company in the long run and they would blame the workers.It's the blame game at it's best involving big $$.The truth is they make poor decisions when it comes to investing the $$ in the future of the company so they are looking for a scapegoat and in most cases they blame it on others instead of admitting they screwed up.When was the last time you heard a big company admit they screwed up ?They don't ever,it's easier to put the blame on someone else for the problems they've caused.:splat::cputin::wavey::bl:

Raider Ronnie

02-16-2009 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam_777 (Post 664758)

How do you blame the union for bad engineering? Like the guy assembling headrests has a say in anything.I agree the unions are trying to get the workers more $$ and better benny's .They should be smart like all the rest of the big business in this country.Fire the Union and employ illegal immigrants for less than minimum wage.Then you'd be happy buying made in the USA products ?:conf:

Never said I blamed the UAW for bad engineering ! The engineers get that blame, I said they were "greedy"
On average they make $70 + and hr to work on an assembly line , I wouldn't call that even close to minimum wage, then there is all the retirees collecting ridiculous pensions !

Raider Ronnie

02-16-2009 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnR (Post 665114)

Gotta disagree on many points here John.

As the saying was for years in the industry with the big 3 american auto makers
"Make them last as long as the average auto loan" then they start falling apart and they keep you coming back!
That mentality worked with older generations (especially anyone alive during WW2) but those days are long gone.

Swimmer

02-16-2009 09:13 PM

You know there is a town in China named America, China. So some of the things that say made in America, well lets just say might not be.

Adam_777

02-17-2009 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swimmer (Post 665280)

You know there is a town in China named America, China. So some of the things that say made in America, well lets just say might not be.

That I can believe ! I hear they make wood plugs in that town.....

justplugit

02-17-2009 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slipknot (Post 664516)

Give me back the America I love and once knew :(

Me too Slip, but we have a whole generation that doesn't know what America was really about. :wall:

When Moral Correctness was replaced by Political Correctness, that was the beginning of the end, imho.

Slipknot

02-17-2009 04:54 PM

There's plenty of that in the other generations also Dave, I'm afraid. :(
but you are right, the morals have dropped off quite a bit.
The me generation and I want it now people have no understanding.

Raven

02-17-2009 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justplugit (Post 665594)

When Moral Correctness was replaced by Political Correctness, that was the beginning of the end, imho.

an astute observation very adeptly put into words Dave

the only thing wrong with it....is

i wanted it ten seconds after Slipknot posted this thread :grins:

likwid

02-17-2009 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slipknot (Post 665597)

The me generation and I want it now people have no understanding.

"Give me back the America I love and once knew"

:angel:

Ain't nothin free. :hihi:

striperman36

02-17-2009 06:44 PM

http://www.boston.com/business/techn...nymore/?page=1

The U.S. by far remains the world's leading manufacturer by value of goods produced. It hit a record $1.6 trillion in 2007 -- nearly double the $811 billion in 1987. For every $1 of value produced in China's factories, America generates $2.50.

justplugit

02-18-2009 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by likwid (Post 665637)

"Give me back the America I love and once knew"

:angel:

Ain't nothin free. :hihi:

:agree: But,no amount of $$ could ever bring back the America i knew.

It was based, among other things, on a Man's word was as good as his bond.

TheSpecialist

03-03-2009 10:53 AM

Quote:

On average they make $70 + and hr to work on an assembly line , I wouldn't call that even close to minimum wage, then there is all the retirees collecting ridiculous pensions !

Ron that is a misconception that the big three management uses to explain away why they are doing so bad. They are lumping in the cost of all benefits health insurance, disability, unemployment, retirement costs of current, and past employees. Those guys on the line might be making about 25- 40 and hour. Do you think that is unreasonable? I sure don't.

Why is it ok for some people to make craploads of money, and not ok for others. Why is it ok for a doctor to make a ton of dough? Because he know how to fix you. Why can't a guy who knows how to build a car be paid well?

Here is something to chew on. For years Ford has been using aluminum body parts on cars and trucks. Hoods, tailgates, liftgates etc. They have known that the process they use to paint them doesn't work. Why have they not fixed this problem. It starts out with the paint bubbling, then it oxidizes, and you think great my truck is rusting. Only problem is the truck is only 4-7 years old. The warranty only covers "rust through" , no hole no warranty covered repair. $800 to repair and repaint. Do you think that is a good product?

I have no problem with someone getting paid good money, enough to support themselves and their families, for what they do. I have a problem with people making millions off of the backs of the worker bees.

The Dad Fisherman

03-03-2009 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist (Post 670329)

Those guys on the line might be making about 25- 40 and hour. Do you think that is unreasonable? I sure don't.

$52,000 - $83,000 a year to put the same fender on a car one after another on an assembly line......I do think that is a little unreasonable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist (Post 670329)

I have no problem with someone getting paid good money, enough to support themselves and their families, for what they do. I have a problem with people making millions off of the backs of the worker bees.

I also agree with that too.....that is why the auto industry is in need of a makeover

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