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The lack of a formal budget has nothing to do with progressivism, Obama has submitted a budget every year he's been in office. -spence |
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It was a stunt. -spence |
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will take sacrafice by EVERYONE. Not only tax increases but budget cuts. How else are you going to pay down a $16 -17 Trillion dollar debt? Obama is already gutting $716 billion out of Medicare to help pay for Obamacare. So where does that leave Medicare? What is Obama's plan for Medicare? |
The "gutting" of 716 billion is favored by both sides and I am not sure it is accurate that it is to help pay for Obamacare. Adjustments in payments to insurers and providers is supposed to cover those costs. I agree, as I have said repeatedly on here over the years, that it is going to take tax increases and cuts in spending to deal with the deficit. What sacrifices are made is the question. Obama would moderately raise taxes on the top 1% to where they were prior to Bush 2. He would maintain middleclass rates. Romney likes the Ryan plan, which would astronomically lower taxes for the extremely wealthy and the middle class would pay more in taxes and more for health care/medicare. The Obama health law pays for itself and reduces the deficit and, as the CBO has pointed out, if Republicans overturn it it will add $100+ billion to the deficit. That is why I find the argument that Romney and Ryan will lower everyones taxes, get people off of food stamps, and "restore" the by the people, for the people to be a farse.
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Yes, the Ryan plan is tweaking around the edges of progressive big government, and it is as likely to suffer degradations of future administrations, but it has a built in "trajectory" or "vector" or a "heading in the right direction" of returning a portion of responsibility and choice to the people. And though it may be unlikely that that direction can be maintained against the allure of the nanny state, if it could, and gradually infiltrate the rest of our big government structure, then true constitutional government, rather than bureaucratic administrative government, could be restored. That it seems unlikely, does not make it a farse. That you and so manhy others consider it a farse, and even so many more have become dependent on government, makes it unlikely. |
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you would have been great fun during the Revolution, I suppose you would have deemed that whole "by the people, for the people"...thingy..."to be a farse" then as well...:uhuh: CBO: Obamacare Will Spend More, Tax More, and Reduce the Deficit Less Than We Previously Thought - Forbes http://washingtonexaminer.com/cbo-to...rticle/2503013 "The first impact of ObamaCare on the economy is its ever rising price tag. The revised cost estimates for the first full 10 years of ObamaCare is now $2.6 trillion***, almost three times the $900B President Obama had promised it would cost. This soaring cost, however, is only what government will be spending, not the additional costs of compliance borne by the private sector. The second economic impact of ObamaCare is all the taxes that will need to be raised to pay for this rising cost. There's a list of these new taxes at The Daily Ticker, along with an informative 4 ½-minute video interview of Henry Blodget explaining them (which actually has a bit of humor in it). But it's not only businesses and the investor class that will pay ObamaCare's new taxes; the middle class will also get hit. The third impact on the economy from ObamaCare is regulation. Bureaucrats have already written 13,000 pages of new regulations, and they're just getting started. This has business in a state of paralysis: what are these unelected, unaccountable regulators going to dump on me next? There's also the issue of whether the regulators know what they're doing. At Reason, Peter Suderman writes: As part of a multipart study of the law's regulations, Christopher Conover, a health policy researcher at Duke University's Center for Health Policy and Inequalities Research, and Jerry Ellig, a senior research fellow at the Mercatus Center, looked at eight of ObamaCare's major regulations and found that "that the regulatory impact analyses (RIAs) for these regulations were seriously incomplete, often omitting significant benefits, costs, or regulatory alternatives." ... The authors also conclude that the analyses were also "more likely to understate the magnitude of costs than to overstate them. All eight regulations appear to have understated the costs. In some cases, costs are understated by billions of dollars. The net effect of this pattern is to further contribute to the bias favoring regulation." Regulators who've decided to pursue certain rules have probably already decided that those rules are a good idea, and end up using the required analyses mostly to justify what they're already planning to do." ****I don't know if this is more or less accurate than any of the other numbers out there but based on the "vector"...it will be accurate at some point at least briefly:) |
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the Obama Program(vector) is one of massive, permanent and expanding federal power, which happens to be the antithesis of the farcical , but great? .....intent of our founding....this much we know:uhuh: |
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You need a strong leader that can lay out the true facts of where we are,what the consquences are, what we need to do, and then unite all our people to be willing to do their share of sacrificing. It can't be on the backs of one group, it has to be shared by everyone. This class warfare stuff will never work, except to divide the country and bring in votes for the party that promotes it. It's estimated that the increase in taxing the 1% will bring in 80-90 billion, which would do very little to pay down the trillions we have in debt. It will take a concerted effort on every citizen's part and a dynamic leader that can unite the people for the sake of America. While Obama promoted himself in his campaighn to be such a leader, he has failed. |
I pay enough in taxes.....should not have to suffer for miss guided politicians that sit at their desk bouncing a pencil contriving to take my hard earned money.....making policies that exclude them
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wow this republican cool-aid tasted great....oh wait so doesn't the democrats.. Must keep head down, keep working, keep paying for corporate handouts, keep paying for mortage handouts, keep paying for welfare and medicaid handouts, there may not be a social security hand out for me at the end, but thats ok it only hurts when I think.
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And for buchie: you don't postulate on anything, because everything you say out is put out as fact, even when it is bs. I guess that is better :rotf2: |
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We will be working for the Govt from Jan-July before we see our own dime. That's why all Govt programs need to be cut to help stop the bleeding,none excluded. These guys use many of these programs to pay back contributors and to buy votes for their own agenda and are scared to death to do what's really needed. We need a President that will get out there explain his plan every week if need be, motivate and inspire us to get out of this quick sand. Holding a news conference every 2 months and appearing on Entretainment Tonight to talk about himself,his hobbies etc. is a dis-service to the country. We all know he's a nice guy,but let's hear how he's really going to bring the Govt back to fiscal responsibility. |
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Absolutely. Nothing better than attending a local or county meeting to have your say, have it heard and answered. It's the power of the individual. My Representative holds monthly teleconference meetings where you can state your opinions and ask questions. Can't beat it for finding out what is really going on with legislation in Washington. |
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The ones who when asked why they are voting for "hope and change" have no good answer. Not saying you are one of them. You may have very valid reasons for voting D. If you want to call every American who votes Romney Ryan sheeple it may be time to look at why people vote Obama Biden as well? I will vote Romney Ryan and it is simple for me. I work harder than I ever have for far less money than ever before. I am going to be looking at a tax increase in January due to legislation I didn't want. I fear if this administration is given a term without needing to campaign to keep their jobs we will be seeing far more legislation we don't want I and my business will not survive another four years of the current regime. I kill myself daily to provide for my family I have gone months with out pay to make sure employees get taken care of before me. I pay my bills I have paid my dues. And I get to see people live and die through entitlement our current leadership included. I am middle class and my quality of living is rapidly decreasing. I don't live lavishly. I haven't taken a vacation for three years my customers are happy with me there just is not enough work for everyone. It is what it is. I just know if this regime gets another 4 years it will get worse. Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
Sheeple wasn't my word. Obviously it is subjective. Very little has changed for small business under Obama. Many people who speak out against voting for him talk about the fear of what he Will do. The nra is big on that. Makes me want to get their sticker off my truck. Scare tactics. But concern for your business is an understandable reason. I fear for a country where billionaires change the tax system so the middle class gets hammered harder while they pay a tiny percent.how that helps the deficit is beyond me.i also don't get how that makes a better country.
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I feel your pain JB. A family member has been a bank manager for many years and
was able to approve most small business loans under certain criteria on her own. Now with the new Banking Regulations all small business loans must be sent to a Loan Officer at Headquarters. No matter what the loan history is with the local bank, the business needs to put up %60 colatteral in some form, even their homes, to get a loan. Not a favorable enviornment to grow a small business or hire additional employees, and these are many of the people they want to increase taxes on. Doesn't make sense for economic growth. |
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noone wants to "work" for an entity that is so bloated and irresponsible with what is already being provided them.... giving them even more would be an exercise in futility and enablement....see California below... |
I am simply tired of this notion that Obama and Biden give 2 s@&ts about the American middle
Class. They care about one group of people those they can convince to vote for them. They care about Middle class to the extent that they want the unions to back them period. Then they care about the poor (American non working families, which is becoming generational) . And they also care about big corporate America. Because that is where they get their campaign money. Divide and conquer. We are being divided, look at the arguments on a fishing forum for crying out loud, next will come the conquering. I am not talking about enslavement or any Indiana jones type crap. But making people live to their will. Doing as they think we need it has already happened it will again. Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
“The period which immediately precedes an election, and that during which the election is taking place, must always be considered as a national crisis. ... As the election draws near, the activity of intrigue and the agitation of the populace increase; the citizens are divided into hostile camps, each of which assumes the name of its favorite candidate; the whole nation glows with feverish excitement.” -- Alexis de Tocqueville, “Democracy in America,” 1835
I like Ramesh I’m Right, You’re Wrong and Other Political Truths By Ramesh Ponnuru Aug 20, 2012 I can’t stand the people on your side. Not you, particularly. You’re fine. It’s your side that’s ruining everything great about this country. Your side lies shamelessly. Your leaders just make things up. And you just follow them blindly, like sheep -- like blind sheep. You hang out with people who think just like you, and listen only to shows where you’ll hear your own views repeated. It’s an echo chamber of lies! That’s how your side wins elections. It whips gullible people into a frenzy about supposed threats to their freedoms and livelihoods, and it deceives everyone else into thinking it’s more moderate than it really is. Once the election is over, though, your side starts pushing its extreme agenda behind the scenes. When your side wins an election, you make out the president to be some sort of messenger from God. Nothing he does can be wrong. It doesn’t matter how big a hypocrite he is. He can campaign on bringing us together and then do nothing but divide us when he gets in -- but you don’t mind. When our side wins, on the other hand, the president has to be personally trashed and accused of the most monstrous crimes. Your side stirs up hate against the people on my side. The horrible signs your people hold up at their protests, the venom your spokesmen spew on television: It’s scary. I wonder how you can go through life with all that anger inside you. Your side is simplistic. You never stop and think things through. That’s how you end up with your ridiculously inconsistent positions on abortion and the death penalty. You even fight against legislation that would make your own life better! How crazy is that? Honestly, I don’t know whether to be sorry for you or mad. Sometimes I wish we could just free you from these awful leaders and their dumb ideas. Sometimes I wish all the people on your side would just secede and form your own country. I don’t know if your side even believes in democracy. Your people are willing to do whatever it takes to win. That’s all they care about. They don’t care about how much damage their incivility does to the tone of our national life. It makes me sad. Your side is willing to exploit tragedies for political gain. When your side’s rhetoric leads to political violence, on the other hand, you start saying how we shouldn’t politicize senseless crimes. Awfully convenient, isn’t it? Your side’s extremism just grows and grows. Back in the day, people on your side had some sensible views and were willing to work with people on my side. Now your side purges anyone who would dare to do that. The people on your side constantly whine about how unfairly they are treated. You’re always stoking phony outrage against the political leaders you hate. They are shameless liars, you say. But why should we take demands for honesty seriously when they come from your side? Frankly, anything your side gets is justified payback for all the things you’ve done. I’m not saying that my side is perfect. Not at all. I complain about the people on my side all the time. They’re wimps. They’re too polite. They let your side get away with murder. And the press lets it happen, too. The people on my side always bring knives to the gunfight. Maybe the most infuriating thing your side does is pretend that we’re morally equivalent. That’s not true: Your side is full of much worse people. I can’t even stand seeing them on television. No way could I ever watch that supposed news network of yours. It’s nothing personal. I just hate people like you. ////////////////////////////////// spending related....and funny...unless you live in Cali. August 21, 2012 Funding Failure Aaron Gee Jerry Brown has a problem. His state continues to spend billions more than it collects in taxes. Outlays for pensioners are starting to bite into day to day government functions. Unable to get higher taxes through his state's legislature Brown is turning to the voters with proposition 30, asking the voters to raise their own taxes. Proposition 30 is being sold to the public as a way to balance the budget and prevent cuts to schools and public safety. Brown parades around the state preaching that his citizens must accept the tax "for the children". Already the most tax burdened state in the union according to a Pacific Research Institute study, more taxes just continues the status quo. The revenue generated will not do much to fill this years 16 billion dollar deficit, nor go to schools, or public safety. That money will be used to shore up a broken retirement system that is underfunded by hundreds of billions of dollars. The other sad truth is that much of the income promised by this new tax will never be collected. With nearly 2,000 upper income Californians leaving the state every week the amount of money garnered from Brown's latest "tax the rich" scheme is sure to be much, much, less than forecast. California already has the worst business climate in the United States which makes raising taxes that much more damning. Businesses are leaving the state and with them taxpaying workers. |
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and President Obama’s economists are nothing if not optimistic. In the fiscal year 2013 presidential budget request, they’ve once again forecast higher future growth than their private-sector peers – about a half-point of gross domestic product growth more, per year, than the 45 economists included in the Philadelphia Fed’s Survey of Professional Forecasters. The Obama budget, released Monday, forecasts 2.7 percent real GDP growth this year and 3.0 percent next year. Growth increases to 3.6 percent in 2014 and 4.1 percent in 2015. The highest the Philadelphia Fed consensus projections peg growth at 2.3 percent this year and slowly rising to 3.1 percent in 2015 ........................................ Jul. 27, 2012, 8:30 AM | 3,842 | 24 UPDATE: The U.S. economy expanded by 1.5 percent during the second quarter, topping expecations( well, not Obama expectations) for a 1.4 percent gain, new data out of the Bureau of Economic Analysis shows. Nonetheless, the government figures continued show that the nation's economy is on uneven footing and losing momentum. During the first three months of the year, the country's gross domestic product expanded by a revised 2.0 percent, moderately faster than the pace seen today. |
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Peanuts, what's another Trillion +. :rollem: And that's with 2 wars winding down. Hello America, are you awake? |
No scott, i dont have a confederate flag on my truck. I do know some tea party guys who do and one has it tattooed on his shoulder.
You also seem to point out as justplugit does that everyone needs to pay more taxes.that doesn't follow your party line. Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
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Originally Posted by zimmy "You like that the majority of current tax payers would pay higher taxes under the Ryan plan?" |
The other sad truth is that much of the income promised by this new tax will never be collected. With nearly 2,000 upper income Californians leaving the state every week the amount of money garnered from Brown's latest "tax the rich" scheme is sure to be much, much, less than forecast. California already has the worst business climate in the United States which makes raising taxes that much more damning. Businesses are leaving the state and with them taxpaying workers.
and coming to TX where I pay state tax of, whats that number again, oh yeah, ZERO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Justplug correctly stated it will take tax raises and spending cuts to cut the deficit. You point out that taxing the rich wont fix it, which points to tax raises on everyone. Ryan plan looks like it lowers taxes on everyone, but actually raises taxes, but only on the middle class. So are people tricked by Ryan or just don't know enough about his plan?
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