What does that have to do with anything I said?

And I don't agree that because a huge majority of the fishermen say there is a problem, then there really is a problem. Most of the fishermen who say there is a problem have gotten used to the fishery when the SSB was at 250% of the objective. Back in the 50's and 60s there were far fewer fish being caught and that was considered normal.

Oh and BTW - I generally don't do striped bass charters, so I'm not putting $$ before the health of the fishery.

Mike, I believe you have caught Hudson fish in MA, but numerous tagging studies have shown that 90% of the Hudson fish don't move further than 50 miles from the mouth of the river. I have caught Hudson fish (with tags) off of Montauk, where they shouldn't be. But I think that the fish you and I caught were part of the 10% that got lost. :)

Weather plays a huge role in lots of activities, which are all managed either by the government or privately. Ignoring the impact of weather on any given weather dependent activity is sure to bring a management failure. What the managers are trying to do right now is to keep the SSB high enough so when we do get the right weather there will be huge spawning success.

Blinded by science !
Statistics can be used to dance to many tunes.
But as someone who has been obsessed with chasing this fish since the late 60's, I'll trust the empirical evidence. The near shore fishery for bass is a shadow of what was. Many spots that would hold decent fish even in the lean years are seldom producing at all. Some still do but in general these fish are not as wide spread as the past.
We are too greedy to back off a bit. The keep em all attitude I've seen this year is more than I can recall seeing. As long as you can score $100 a fish, good luck with the culling, stacking, highgrading and poaching. Non enforceable and the fines are to lame to be a deterrent. A part of me wants this fishery to go right down the tubes, just to teach us all a Fn lesson. 😠
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Lets look at forage fish for a second, the devistation netting has done to bait fish must have a major effect on the near shore Bass fishery and population health. Boston Harbor used to be LOADED with pogies and void of seals. I'm not 40 yet and used to see front end loaders scooping up tons of beached pogies off Wollaston beach in the past as they beached themselves during blitzes from Bass and Blues. The river hearing were almost whiped out as well and are now coming back. Don't underestimate the effects of Weather, forage and natural preditors like a fast growing seal population that needs to eat. There are others ways to protect the population as attacking rod and reel fisherman (including all rec, charter and comm) is not the only answer. We should all be coming together to fight these pressures as well.
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My point was that we can't comment on or discuss weather options for managing the species because it is completely out of our hands. We have no way of knowing if the right weather is going to come next year or in 20 years.

What we do know is that SSB is declining quickly and we also know that there are relatively few smaller fish in the pipeline to replace the big fish that are being killed off at an alarming rate under the current regulations.

As A marine Bioligest [sp] stated last year ..................... &&& to me this really sums it up .

aside from the deadly electronics , the use of the internet & cell phones / which he said just made a guy/or gal a fisherman & a call away from the fish .

he put it very bluntly ........NOW there is waaaaaaaaaaay to many fisherman &&&& not enough bass :fishin:

Well, if you believe the stock assessment, the SSB is NOT declining quickly, in fact it will rise starting in 2016.

But, FWIW, I support the full reduction next year, not because I think its the best option, but because it is the most prudent move on the table. I would have much preferred any other option that had more than a 51% chance of reaching its goal.

Another way of stating it: For the 7th time in 9 years, the juvenile index fell below the 61 year average, though this year only fell about 6% below the average.

I received this yesterday.

Stripers Forever
Dear Paul,

MD has just released the 2014 young of the year figures for striped bass. The graph below shows the arithmetic mean numbers:
Image
The 2014 number is 11.02. This is sure to be a great number for the spin doctors. Looking at it positively this may be the best of the last three years, but in reality this is another very mediocre number and certainly not one that will allow continuing harvesting striped bass at current levels. One of our SF board members once said that a classic sign of a species in trouble is when both the lows and the highs of spawning success are in decline. The average of the last 3 years is now about 5.9 which is only slightly better than the levels experienced during the crash of the late 70s and 80s and just half of the long term average of 11.8 taken from 1957 through 2014.

In the graph above you will note that the large years happened quite regularly throughout the 1990s; these big years were needed to produce the great fishing that encouraged angler participation, tackle sales, and sustained the guiding industry. In fact there were five years within the 15 year period of 1989 to 2003 that had a young of the year count above 20. In the 11 years from 2004 through 2014, there has been only 1.

Of extra concern is that while that one year class – 2011- was very large those fish should be about 17 or 18 inches this fall and they should be everywhere, but no one seems to be finding that to be the case. In fact the entire summer of 2014 was very spotty for school bass fishing. Some locations along the coast reported quite a few while many normally good spots had almost none or only a few good days. However many there will be as three year olds there will surely be many fewer in the future as they are harvested first in the Chesapeake Bay and later the coastal fisheries. So in summary we feel that while the 2014 year class is not bad news, it provides no reason to abandon the major reductions in harvest the ASMFC will be contemplating on Wed. 10/29.

Click here to view the MD DNR young of the year page. Click on either geometric or arithmetic mean to download the excel document. (If the pages opens up and asks for a password, but just X that window out and the document will open up anyway.)

Thank you for your support.

​Brad Burns, President

Stripers Forever, a non-profit, internet-based conservation organization, seeks game fish status for wild striped bass on the Atlantic Coast in order to significantly reduce striper mortality, to provide optimum and sustainable public fishing opportunities for anglers from Maine to North Carolina, and to secure the greatest socio-economic value possible from the fishery.
Image
Stripers Forever PO Box 2781 South Portland, ME 04116-2781
stripers@stripersforever.org
Stripers Forever, P O Box 2781, South Portland, ME 04116-2781, USA

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There are THREE (3) major spawning areas that contribute to the Coastal Striped Bass Stock. Chesapeake, Delaware and Hudson River. Fish from ALL THREE of these areas leave their spawning grounds and migrate along the coast. All three migrate into MA and are part of the fish we catch in MA. Combined, the rest of the spawning fish throughout the entire coastal range make up less than 1% of the coastal migrating population. There are spawning fish in pretty much every state just not enough to matter compared to the three aforementioned spawning areas. These are not assumptions but scientific facts.

If anyone wants to challenge or debate these facts then 1) Give John R $1000, 2) I'll do the same, 3) the losers cash goes to the charity that the winer chooses and 4)My statement will be evaluated by Dr. Gary Nelson of MA DMF, he is Chair of the SB Stock Assessment and the guy I think we could agree would have the knowledge if I am communicating fact or fiction.
_____________

Now for the rest of the story...

Environmental conditions clearly have more to do with the amount of (young of year )production than any conservation measure fisheries mangers can provide.

The Data clearly shows that the same SSB that produced the largest year classes on record have also produced the smallest.

I find it completely ridiculous when people argue that because we can't control the environment we should keep fishing at the current rate of harvest. Who or what is to blame for the declining number of available SB has nothing to do with the FACT that we know there are less fish available. The same lack of control of the environment existed when we increased harvest based upon the knowledge we had a high and increasing number of SB. Now that we KNOW the numbers are in serious decline, it is obvious to me it is time to reduce harvest. That is good management, not to mention good common sense.

To conclude, the last time we had questionable year classes we had a 1 @ 28" coastwise standard and the number increased. Shouldn't that be the new number. I think it should.

I know some people want a larger minimum size but we do kill and are charged with 9% release mortality so I want those fish to count. Not to mention I think most normal shore bound anglers, (the ones that buy the low end tackle sold in a million more places then high end tackle) should be allowed to harvest a reasonable fish.

Ill be fighting for a larger minimum size as that is what MSBA voted to support....just giving my personal opinions here.

every person who has posted here supports the reduction. we may have varying opinions on the health of the stock, but just the fact that everyone agrees that something needs to be done should be viewed as a positive thing. i would truly be amazed if the reduction is not approved wednesday

Niko, I agree all of us posting here support the reduction. However make no mistake the votes at the upcoming meeting are far from guaranteed. As a matter of fact the soft counts I am involved in have a reduction being passed but the reduction being in name only...I will explain.

I do not think even the mid/south atlantic states like VA that openly are saying they are not in favor of a reduction will be able to duck using the reference points from the new assessment. Ill assume the new reference points are adopted. This will mean that "a" reduction is REQUIRED.

The second vote will be the timeline to take the reduction. The choices are clear. Take it all in one year or the three year phase in aka 7/7/7. The problem I and many others worry about is that if they choose the phase in and fail to achieve the target the only way to reduce harvest in a few years will be seasons, because we will already be using stretched out measures from this action that did not work. As I have stated in other places, do you want to risk the possibility of having to give up some of May or September? Not to mention the nightmare of having different size and or bag limits for three consecutive years.

Conversations up and down the coast indicate this vote is in serious question and one or two votes either way will swing it. Indications are that New England states are all for 1 year. Nj appears to be a real swing vote on this questions and indications are that NJ is in the 3 year camp, God I hope info on this is incorrect.

After that vote the coastal regs then will be another long debate, too many options....for me I just hope it ends up one fish. Any second fish or intricate slot and the discards are going to kill us in the next assessment.

Then there is the chesapeake votes and the commercial reduction votes etc.

I hope guys aren't assuming this reduction is a done deal. This Wednesday the rubber hits the road. Stand up and be heard or stop whining as this is the meeting we all need to show up and be present. Just like the big Menhaden vote of a few years ago, If we fill that room, our presence will matter. Leave it half empty like the hearings were half empty and we will have no one to blame but ourselves.

God I hope guys come out from behind the keyboards. 800 on a VS, 500 on a rod, 30 on a Sebile....my point is this Wed is worth taking a sick day over.

Great news - NJ is the swing vote?
Land of the "bonus" tags and 3 rec keepers a day.
Awesome.
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MakoMike,

I agree with you that the YOY index has been historically measured in the Chesapeake bay. I must disclose, I am not a biologist! :-) But, I do know that striped bass spawn in other river systems. Perhaps these populations are too small to justify measuring them? I frankly do not know. Again, I am not a biologist! :-). But, the scientific/analytical part of my brain cannot help but to be curious about the missing data.

Again, I agree with you! :-).

Word! ;-)

FYI. New York state does also collect YOY data, but as I said, those fish don't migrate very far.

Cool! Good to know!! Thank you MakoMike.

I'm with you. I really think nothing will stop the slide now. Too much money being made on the remaining big fish.

Fall run in Gloucester? 2014
 

You missed it because there was there was not one of any worth? well if you lived there or came after work on the lucky days you would have thought there was. nevertheless, i hope of the cuts? otherwise?

here is Skip Montello trying hard this fall to catch a fish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=186D...ature=youtu.be

and as to the at stupid plum island surf cast logo you have? TELL YOUR FELLOW FISHERMEN TO STOP KILLING SO MANY FISH! TELL SURFLAND AND LIZ TO STOP DISPLAYING PICTURES OF 28' FISH.

Just spent 5 weeks fishin the Vineyard and 10 days in Rhody.LOL My retirement gift so to speak.Saw resident fish leave and no migration filling the holes.Last week of the Derby had days with just a couple 10 to 14 lb bass weighed in. This trend started 10 yrs ago. With less than 300 boat n shore bass weighed in -288- . Not much real effect on the bio mass anymore. bass fishing in Rhody was slow to poor all season.Block was good for a bit but besides that we all know the story.
We, the rod n reel coms have a small affect. Big boats land between 10,000 an 30,000 a haul. most bicatch goes back dead.Sometimes over 1/2 the catch. How many big boats do this. I watched 6 boats working Vineyard sound from 7 gates one night. We are our own problem. We need to stop quibbling and work together.We don't it really will be a dead sea. Greedy will always lie for a buck. Theives will always steal unless we step on the mess by working together. If the regulators don't due what the majority wants then we need to file suit to change the process and replace the people that truely are corrupted.No point being nice about it anymore. Fishin down right bites most places now. a few nice times from time to time but the all n all numbers show just how bad it's gotten. I kept one fish this yr to eat an weighed her in after she drove a 6/0 into my finger. MMMMMMM thats way more than 25% or 33% cut back. Keep argueing . If I get my truck fixed in time I'll be in Conn to speak my peice.Ron McKee- The Striper Maine-iac

I know you have something useful to say but for the life of me, I can't figure it out.

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