I added unwanted and that covers a lot a ground and if a women is forced to carry and deliver an unwanted pregnancy and she is young and single, your kidding yourself if her life can just go on normally like nothing happened. I’m not going debate you, I am 100% behind a women’s choice to elect how she deals with a pregnancy, which in her state might not be evident until after it then becomes illegal. I hope the leaked brief upsets some Republican wins and costs them seats likely won. I’m heading back to my life, yours it seems is way to wrapped up in proving your view of basically anything is correct and how evil liberals and Dems are. I don’t know who I feel more sorry for on this never ending circle jerk called the political forum you few guys seem to enjoy, I’ve got better things to do. Only posted as I support a womens right to choose and hope this comes back to bite the right and I can always easily get Jim started on his next crusade.

Once again a person who has zero chance of ever having to deal with the ramifications of an act, claims it’s inconsequential.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

This.

Was that a response to Jim in CT? I reread his thread and didn't see anything in it about the "act" being inconsequential. But, then, you do see things the way you want to see them.

As far as inconsequential goes the cost of a vaginal delivery in America as of 11/21 was $5-$11K. Who foots the bill for that, to say nothing of raising a child, when women are forced to give birth & the places most likely to force them to do so don’t fund medical & related services?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

In the US there have been 41 bombings of abortion clinics, and another 173 arsons.
11 total people have been murdered in 7 separate attacks on abortion clinics. There have also been 17 attempted murders.
To my knowledge, there are zero cases of pro-choice bombings or murders.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

no, not this. not even close.

(1) everyone understands that the more restrictive abortion rights are, the harder things will be for some women. And i feel empathy for them.

but…

(2) please tell me where in the constitution, where it says that judges are supposed to decide cases, based on the premise of easing the burden for one side or the other. It doesn’t say that.

(3) i can happily and honestly discuss the impact of restrictions on women. You can raise my taxes to pay for effective sex education and availability of contraception. I’m all in favor of reducing unwanted pregnancies. You can also raise my taxes to pay for expenses to help pregnant women carry the baby and give it up for adoption.

It’s your side, which never, ever discusses the impact of all this to the other party involved, the baby. All you do is express concern for the mother. The mother isn’t the only one involved. You’ll never be aborted, and you have literally zero empathy or consideration for the tens of millions who are.

i have deep empathy for a woman who is pregnant and in despair over it. That empathy, does t extend to the point where i’m ok with them slaughtering someone else to ease their burden.

there is literally zero right to abortion in the constitution. Zip.

There is an explicit, irrefutable
right, to not have your life taken without due process.

The issue of abortion isn’t about women’s rights, because we all agree that women can do whatever they want, as long as they don’t harm someone else. we all agree on that.

The whole issue then, is whether or not the baby represents “someone else.”. every other angle of this, is a politically motivated smokescreen.

that’s all that matters here, the status of the baby. yet your side never mentions it. because they know it makes their position look monstrous.

you focus on the impact to mothers, and ignore the impact to the babies, because it’s more convenient for you. It’s also extremely intellectually dishonest and cowardly. But it makes your position a whole lot easier to do defend, and that’s all just matters.


Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

yes you added unwanted. but you included rape and incest, which is a rounding error.

if a woman can dismember a baby in her womb and “carry on with her life like nothing happened”, please explain why she can’t do the same if she gives the baby up for adoption, giving the baby a life and giving a desperate couple something they can love. it’s about as loving and noble and heroic a thing as i can imagine.

and like every other pro abortion person, you spend 100% of your focus on the mother, and you purposely ( and conveniently ) ignore the impact to the other party involved,,the baby.

It’s very convenient for you, to pretend like there’s only one side to this. I did that for a few years when i was pro abortion. then i bothered to consider the impact to the other party involved. And then i saw my first ultrasound of an unborn baby, and there wasn’t any ambiguity as to what i was looking at.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Conservative logic and Jim carrying their water


there is literally zero right to abortion in the constitution. Zip.


let's just skip Unenumerated rights and the Ninth Amendment

here are some Basic Rights Not Listed in the Constitution so let go with The argument there is literally zero right to abortion in the constitution. Zip. as they reason to overturn 50 years of settled law

So how willing is the GOP and the SCJ willing to go?

Innocent until Proven Guilty
The Right to a Fair Trial
The Right to a Jury of Your Peers
The Right to Vote (gop already dont think this is a right )
The Right to Travel
Judicial Review
The Right to Marriage
The Right to Privacy
and the big one the right to Reading and Interpreting the Constitution

Those who claim that the Constitution doesn’t say “right to privacy” or “separation of church and state” are relying upon the assumption that unless a particular phrase or specific words actually appears in the document, then the right doesn’t exist — either because the interpreters are drawing invalid implications or because it’s illegitimate to go beyond the exact text at all.

the GOP the constitution is for Me not thee . unless it's a right they agree with

of course there are non enumerated rights.

the right to life isn’t one of them. that’s enumerated clearly, isn’t it?

i’m not getting aborted. so how is my being pro life a scenario where i’m securing rights for me, that i’m not giving to thee? please, please explain.

you accuse me of carrying the rights water. yet i criticize the right frequently, and i’ve never seen you disagree with the left. not once.

doesn’t that imply that i think, and you’re the one carrying water?

sure seems so
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

So in a nutshell Jim you are fine with imposing your moral objection .
on people you have never met . have no insight with their situation or more than likely will never meet ..and will impact you NEVER!

And this is the problem with the anti abortion crowd this Faux suggestion it's about the unborn it's just a lie woven into their narrative so they dont look like what they are the arrogant morality police ...

So then what's next for the anti abortion GOP vote getter cause More CRT more Grooming and suggestions of pedophiles

making it a crime for state residents from seeking Abortions in other states or Mail ordering the day after Pill . why stop their ban blow jobs and masterbation cant have all that potential life swirling down the drains of America !

they claim it's now a states right issue they will be attacking this next ... I am certain

FYI I myself or my family do not promote Abortion nor have stood in the way of others if the thought that was best for them or their family .. I guess freedom has a different meaning in my house and the 54% of americans who think row shouldn't be struck down


And here's a question I have no answer for why wouldn't States actually hold a referendum vote on Abortion in their state ? if they are 100% positive that's what the people Want...

https://i1.wp.com/i.giphy.com/media/...0ig8/giphy.gif
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

i don’t impose
many of my beliefs in others. But i’m comfortable trying to impose my opposition to mass infanticide, onto others

When you express your opinions, that’s fine. When i do it, i’m trying to impose my morals on others.

Do i have that right?

Your opinion on abortion, has nothing to do with whether or not roe should
be overturned. All
that matters, is whether or not the case was constitutionally correct.

If it gets overturned it goes to the states, and THERE is where we can debate the pros and cons.

Supreme court decisions aren’t guided by popularity. You don’t seem to get that.

Drawing a constitutional line from the protection against unreasonable search and seizure, to abortion, is a big, questionable leap.

send it to the states. Why are you afraid to let democracy play out?

big moral questions should be decided by our representatives. by people who we can vote out if they get it wrong.

Even if roe is overturned,,people
will be able to get abortions. the logistics will surely be harder for some, but not impossible.

you can start a fund to help cover the costs to help women get to the closest Planned Parenthood clinic.

abortion will be in pretty good shape after this. hundreds of thousands of unborn will still be brutally dismembered every year, through zero fault of their own, so that as GS said, “moms can go on with their lives as if nothing happened.”. that should make you happy.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

WDMSO, read this. Ruth Bader Ginsburg was a big believer in abortion rights, but she had criticisms of the way SCOTUS decided Roe.

Being against Roe V Wade, and being against abortion, are not the same thing.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/why...-of-roe-v-wade
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Many don’t know this.

In 2018, the Government of Ireland put a Woman’s right to abortion up for the National vote. The Catholic Church fought it for years. As a compromise the Government put forward the vote BUT only Irish citizens who were in Ireland on the day of the vote could participate in the election. Sucks right? Well at the time, many of the younger Irish folks were working in Canada, Australia, the European continent and the US. So what happened? Well they got really pissed off that they couldn’t vote at the Irish Embassy.
They planned and coordinated and 1,000s of Irish citizens especially the young, flew back to Ireland from points all over the world just to vote. The referendum passed overwhelmingly and a woman’s right to an abortion was enshrined in law.

Young Americans will do the same here.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

interesting side effect, is what this means for Trump. Until monday night, i had held out hope that if he runs again, that there’s was a chance someone would beat him in the primary.

Now, there may not be any chance. He did this. The social conservatives will be worshipping the guy. if they werent already, there are now. He had already established himself as probably the best friend to the unborn that had ever been in the white house. This cements that. Not saying he did it for noble reasons, he may well have only done this only to tick off liberals
more. but he did it nonetheless.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Republicans won’t hold a vote in red states . Oddly the majority of theses states houses are you guessed it men .. and abortion is about votes

They fear a referendum vote on the topic so it will never been on the ballot..

And sorry Jim actually suppressing someone’s Rights isn’t just having an opinion it’s actually causing tangible harm to those who are being denied the right they held for 50 years
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

He had already established himself as probably the best friend to the unborn

What comical is you actually think he is sincere in those believes

He’s a con telling the gullible what they want to hear . And if he thinks it benefits him the louder he gets
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"What comical is you actually think he is sincere in those believes"

Not sure how any human being could possibly conclude I believe he's sincere. In the post you replied to, I specifically said:

"Not saying he did it for noble reasons,"

So when I say that, you somehow conclude that I believe he's genuine? How?

You're either not very bright, or a liar. There simply isn't a third possibility. I specifically said, in a short sentence with very small words (8 words, 5 had only 1 syllable), that I question his intentions. And you believe I said the opposite.

Talking with you is a complete waste.

"He’s a con telling the gullible what they want to hear"

A con man makes promises, and then doesn't keep them. He delivered, he didn't just promise. Social conservatives have been asking for this for 50 years, and it took him to do it. Others promised to try, he did it.

Worth noting that liberals also asked for criminal justice reform for decades, and it also took Trump to do it. Obama had huge democratic majorities in congress for his first 2 years, he could have given liberals criminal justice reform in a day if he wanted to. Trump did it for them.

The draft ruling renews debate over minority rule in the country

I guess I am not the only one thinking this :cheers2:

Which is a better example of "minority rule"?

(1) 9 un-elected appointees deciding these things, or

(2) the American people getting to decide for themselves?

How will abortion be banned, in states where most people want it? If most people want it, they'll elect legislators who will vote that way. That's how our country works.

you really need to decide if your in the Trump cult or your Not .. your all over the map

So your now suggesting Trump made what conservatives wanted for 50 years by stealing a SCJ nomination from Obama and nominating 2 conservatives Judges who were against Row on moral grounds and their religion . not the Law . and lied in their confirmation hearing about it

I love your version of America could it get any more corrupt



FYI Trump’s criminal justice reform bill becomes persona non grata among GOPers

With rising crime and the approaching midterms, Republicans have moved far past the First Step Act.

Three-and-a-half years later, few Republicans — Trump included — seem not at all interested in talking about it.

a friend posted this. interesting

An abortion costs about $400.

In the U.S., the average cost of a vaginal birth is $13,024, including standard predelivery and postdelivery expenses such as facility fees and doctor fees. A cesarean section (C-section) is much more expensive, costing an average of $22,646 Who do you think pays for this?

if they have no insurance


According to the U.S. Department of Agriculture, the average cost of raising a child to age 18 was $233,610 as of 2015. 1 With an annual adjustment for inflation of 2.2% each year factored in, the lifetime cost of raising a child born in 2022 could be estimated at $272,049.


Hard to earn a living trying to raise a child you weren't expecting and your choices were removed by people claiming they care .. then claim we are a welfare state

"you really need to decide if your in the Trump cult or your Not .. your all over the map"

I'm "all over the map", because I'm not a thoughtless simpleton.

You, like many people, think it's all or nothing. This is why you never criticize liberals, never agree with conservatives. It has to be all or nothing.

I see that life isn't that simple.

Trump is a disgusting human being, who nonetheless achieved some terrific policy results. And he had some dismal policy failures.

Unlike you, I can judge politicians on everything they actually do, good and bad. You can only see good in liberals, can only see bad in conservatives.

"your all over the map"

I am actually relieved to hear you say that. yes, I'm all over the map. Because even though you won't admit this, there are good ideas and bad ideas on both sides. There are god people and bad people on both sides.

It's confusing to you that I'm "all over the map". You are firmly planted on the left side of the map, with your eyes closed and your fingers in your ears.

It's a good thing, not a bad thing, to be all over the map.

Trump gave conservatives a huge win with Roe, which conservatives wanted for decades. He also gave liberals a big win with criminal justice reform, which liberals wanted for decades.

Trump (1) is a disgusting individual, who (2) did do some things to help both sides.

Both of those things are true.

"Trump made what conservatives wanted for 50 years by stealing a SCJ nomination from Obama"

How on Earth, did Trump steal that nomination from Obama? He was a private citizen. Lord is he living rent free in your head.

I agree Garland should have been given a hearing (and then rejected). Here's what you won't admit...what McConnell did, was invoke the "Biden Rule", that's actually what it was called. When Bush Sr was POTUS, Biden famously said that if Bush tried to nominate a justice, the democrat-controlled senate should stop him. Biden said it, they call it the "Biden Rule". Now, the democrats never acted on that, but Biden suggested it was appropriate. What's good for the goose...

Also, the American people chose to give Senate control to Republicans at that time. They didn't do that, because they all wanted Garland to replace Scalia. Elections have consequences.

"and nominating 2 conservatives Judges who were against Row on moral grounds and their religion . not the Law"

So in addition to macroeconomics, you're also an expert on Constitutionjal law.

There's no way you read that draft opinion. So you have no clue what their legal basis was. There are many legal scholars who believe Roe was wrongly decided.

"and lied in their confirmation hearing about it "

Show me video where one of them promised never to repeal Roe. They dodged a little for sure. Again, it was Ginsburg who set the precedent during her confirmation, she refused to get specific about how she'd vote on future cases. All others after her, have followed suit.

Do you aver answer any of my questions? Ever?

Not interesting as much as it is stupid. The unborn "never make demands of you." This "traditional pastor" must not have had a pregnant wife or pregnant parishioners. Babies in the womb make constant, 24/7 demands. That ranks as one of the stupidest statements I've ever heard.

And "prisoners, immigrants, the sick, the poor, widows, orphans, all get thrown under the bus for the unborn"--really? I've not seen this phenomenon. Whenever a woman gets pregnant all those groups are thrown under a bus? Wait . . . I thought this traditional pastor said the unborn "never make demands of you."

Sounds like this traditional pastor is demanding that his pregnant parishioners keep pouring money into his coffers for all those groups without detracting a bit for the expense of the babies in the womb who "never make demands of you."

i don’t value life with a financial
accounting.

anyone can go to a catholic hospital, give birth, and pay nothing if you can’t afford it.

lots of people make a good living while raising children. there’s also adoption.

again, all your side ever does, is focus on the mother. the baby is the other side.

can you discuss abortion from the baby’s perspective, for a sentence or two?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

bingo.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"the unborn never make any demands of you".

Well, in that case, it's no burden asking pregnant mother to carry the baby to term and give it up for adoption.

My god, man, where do you get this stuff. Do you subscribe to some low IQ lefty news service?