I just bought four new Gibbs plugs after reading all this. If they're working so well that they're falling apart, then I want a whole set!!!

Oh, they work all right--no one said they didn't work. Why do you think I keep buying them even though they crack on a good fish? That and the fact that they're the only game in town for wooden bottles and darters.

Point was, there was a time when they worked AND stayed in one piece for about a hundred fish.

I just have to say, also, I'm wondering what the "bouncy properties" of sugar pine are that are desireable??? Or, is it a case of misspelling "buoyancy"? The Clueless One wonders--maybe my good friend patrick can explain it to me ;)

Hey Ditch, I have a small casting swimmer that has screw eyes. It's a 5/8 oz fella. I think all their small plugs and all darters have screw eyes.

Allright, here's a question for you guys. When you say you have to work a darter in current. How should that current be in relationship to you? Coming towards you? Going away? Running left or right? My first guess would be running away from you but I just want to make sure.

Mike, I obviously don't know the exact situation with your split lure but I will say that wood being a product of nature is not 100 % predictable. There can be flaws in the wood that are undetectible under the surface. Maybe you got one of the few that may have had a check in the wood somewhere, but I can see how upset you can get seeing how they are supposed to be tested before you buy them. Nothing is perfect. As far as your other notes about the different cuts I won't comment on them, you are more familiar with them than I.

This thread is very good and I really wonder if that was a real email Patrick got, maybe the guy is too embarassed to respond to the forum.

And Saltheart, you found Gibbs' for $6.50 at Worcester. You bargain hunter you, I bought some there and paid 9 each. I gotta follow you around the next show ;)

Quite a few years ago Red Top had their own line of swimmers called Cap'n Bill's. I spoke with Bunny about these plugs several years ago and his reply may explain the 'splitting plug' phenomena.
It seems that these plugs became pretty popular and they had trouble meeting demands. So they hired someone to build the plugs for them. Bunny said in order to speed up the process the sub-contractor cut corners by not soaking or not soaking the plugs long enough in a solution (I think it was fermiculite or something like that). This caused all the plugs built in this manner to split after very little usage. You could always tell the plugs that Red Top built versus the ones that they had sub-contrated out.
The splits in these plugs was pretty unsightly. I used to just fill the split with epoxy and continue to fish them.
When you pay the current inflated prices for Gibbs lures .. you expect them to perform. The last lure I bought from them was a PP. The attachment thru wire was not even centered. So its still in the wrapper.

Anytime I use a popper in the future .. it will be a Hawg Hunter!

Linesides, the old Danny I'm speaking of is in the 3oz. size. The big difference is sometime ago Gibbs decided to change the lip design so it's similar in all the sizes. Basically, the lip is the same width from the spot where it leaves the body to the tip. The older ones had a lip where it was the same width as the body where it met the body, but it widened a little as it came to the end. Follow me? No, I wasn't referring to the TS swimmers. I know the TS swimmers. Their lip was similar to what I described as well.

I do have to agree with you Mike P, for Darters and Bottles, Gibbs is the only game in town. I'm sure someone will make some wooden Darters soon. The Bottles I doubt because I'm sure Gibbs owns that patent.

A thread like this would be a waste if all the manufacturers don't read these boards. I'm sure a couple do and only browse, which would be fine by me. As long as they took what is said here into consideration.

Nevermind

Slipknot , you got to read the fine print. Worcester show , 3 shows back , thats the 1999 show . The rumor was that the company would be sold and the prices would sky rocket. I loaded up before it all happened. A funny thing was that I couldn't get any needlefish cause some guy from RI had loaded up on them the day before and wiped them out. Turned out to be #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&. :)

They've been reading the board, and some e-mails were sent and recieved and I won't get into the nitty-gritty but I will say this. After receiving a couple of the e-mails, several points had been raised about the construction of these plugs where we were in error (so to speak) and I would like to pass along that info. This is hard fact, what the plugs are made with and out of. This is info which is not debatable such as construction materials used as opposed to percieved and actual perfromance or quality, which is really determined by the people that use the product.

Wanting to get the right info out, I have no problem with posting the correct construction materials which I was corrected on by one of the co-owners of Gibbs Lure, Dan Smalley:
I'm sure that if bad plugs were returned to them, they would stick by their promise to back them up. I think that's fair to say too.

The above was put up as to get everyone on the same page as far as construction methods and I think that should be put up. There are still questions on the performance and quality of said plugs and that's where a lot of your opinions have been coming in. Especially those of you that have been working these plugs for generations.

But they have been reading the boards, whether they are listening or not, I can't tell you. But I think it's a hell of an opportunity for them to see what "Gibb's clients" are saying and feeling about their product. I say "Gibb's clients" because even though he stated above that you are my clients, that's not entirely true because I don't sell you anything. But you do buy Gibb's product as well as others and you fish 'em.

I also invite Dan or Dennis from Gibb's Lures to come onboard to give some insight to some of the other issues which are being disputed here such as quality and to a lesser degree, performance.

Again, they have been reading the progression of this thread and I hope they use this as an opportunity to interact with their clients that buy their product...

IF they do come on board to take the opportunity to discuss their product, tell them what you think and what you know in a constructive manner.

Thanks,

John

I would also like to see them reply. I really don't like how they handled this situation. I don't care what a plug is made out of or what kind of hooks they have on there. As long as it works well. As a consumer, my job is to fish the plug, the manufacturers job is to find the best stuff that works.

I can see why the 1 oz Polaris, Small Pencil and 5/8 oz Gibbs aren't through wired. They are for targeting smaller fish. Here's a question, why aren't the darters through wired? They are awfully large and a lot of guys use them to target big fish. So why not?

Thanks John, that clears up some stuff.

And thanks Saltheart, I guess I got to pay closer attention.

There's (or at least used to be) another wood plug manufacturer in NJ called Diftwood Lures. Anyone hear/see/use them?

I first saw them last year at a surf seminar. The plugs sold well and many other casters said they had used them before and had better results than other brands. One of the owners sent me a sample pack of plugs and they were very nice plugs! They cast well, all were wire thru, and they worked! I did very well with their needle fish plug at BI last year.

What about those "Beachmaster" plugs I saw at the Mass Bass show? I think they are out of Long Island or Jersey... Anyone know of them?

As to Dan's points that I care to respond to:

1. Also, the Stan Gibbs poppers, in all sizes, have screw eyes. As did the originals---of which I have many still in the original red "Stan Gibbs Cast-a-Lure" box. Just for purposes of clarity.

4. What I said is the absolute truth. Whether it's unbeieveable to Dan Smalley or not. I'll display the plug to anyone who is intersted, and after I have the chance to photograph it---as well as the 2-1/2 one with hairline cracks starting to spread from the tail--I'll scan the photos to John. After which, I'll return it to Gibbs for Dan to see with his own "virgin" two eyes that I'm not full of bull. You will notice, when you see it, that the paint is pristine, both at the tail and all along the crack, that there are no dents or chips to the paint indicative of it coming in contact with a rock or bridge abutment. From the shape of the crack, you will also see that it is a stress fracture caused by external pressure to the plug, and not something that was cut into it---that is also evidenced by the lack of any damage to the paint whatsoever. I am not asking for a replacement--what I am asking for is an apology for unwarranted attacks on my reputation and credibility. But I'm just asking for that, not demanding it. I don't threaten people just for the sake of making noise. As far as the other cracking problems over the last season, well, I didn't save those plugs for posterity. Had I know this was going to turn into a pi**ing contest, I probably would have saved them. In addition to my own experience, I personally witnessed two 2-1/2 oz darters cracking, that other people were using, in situations where the plug was ingested deeply by a sizeable bass. If a plug can't stand up to the pressure a striper exerts with its crushers, maybe it's time to re-think the materials. If this is something inherent in the design of the plug, so be it. Then, fishermen have to choose on a cost/benefit analysis whether to continue using them. Most will as the plug produces. But if it is something that can be rectified by inspecting the grain of the wood and rejecting blanks that have irregularities that might be causing these cracks, that is something you may wish to look into.

5. It seems like you are conceding, by saying that the plugs "are now available and with a more consistent quality" that initially, the quality was inconsistent. Which it was. Some bottle swimmers didn't swim, and the same was true of some Danny swimmers. Also, just for the purposes of accuracy, you initially raised prices 25% after acquiring the company from Jim Gruiecci, and followed that with a 15% rise, which accounts for a 40% increase in the first two years of ownership. That was in the wholesale cost to dealers, their mark-up after the fact is admittedly out of your control.

Your initial reaction, consistently, over even the slightest criticism of your product is to fly off the handle and complain, whether it be to a tackle shop owner who returns plugs or forward complaints on behalf of a customer, or to a web host who doesn't "censor" criticism of your product. These people are not employed by you in a PR capacity, they owe you no obligation to sugar-coat anything or prevent customers and readers from offering their opinions. I will admit that the title I chose to initiate this discussion was a bit intemperate, but it was calculated to draw your attention, since I know you guys read the internet daily. By calling your attention to this problem, I was hoping your response might be, "Contact your reader and ask him to write to us and explain the problem in greater detail, or have him send it to us and we'll look into it". Even though I know in the past that has not been your approach, perhaps getting over that was part of the growth process and learning curve of running a consumer oriented business. Unfortunately, you chose to react--apparently, since I'm not privvy to what was said except to the extent others posted your communications to them--in typical fashion, flying off the handle and accusing those with legitimate criticism as being clueless, liars, full of bull, threatening charges of SLANDER when everyone with even basic knowledge of the law knows that any lawsut you brought would result in many dollars of damages assessed against you and your company in a countersuit, and showing yourself to the public in an extremely poor fashion.

I've heard casters speak well of them but haven't seen or tried them myself.

I liked the Driftwood needles because while they were heavy enough to cast well they didn't sink like a rock. That let me work them slow over rocks. Hope they didn't go under. :(

HELP!

Hey guys, how about a few of you, who have some experience with plugs, listing your top six performers, starting from the best and going down to #6, for stripers in New England. Gibbs' products seem to be most popular, but please include others like YoZuri, Bomber, and whatever you have had the best luck with for big fish later in the season.

I've always considered that plugs were made to catch fishermen, not fish, and have used jigs and various spoons and spinners, and flies of course, all my life. But I've heard some really good things here about the productivity of plugs, and even just bought a bunch of them (two Dannies and two pencil poppers) the other day, and want more for when the lunkers arrive in a few weeks.

BUT I don't know what to get!! And getting the wrong one is an $8 to $15 mistake.

Well, I'm glad I wasn't holding my breath, but unfortunately, it appears that they have chosen not to respond publicly to this issue. This is an opportunity for them to resolve some issues with their customers. Hopefully, in the future, they will choose to do so in a kind and professional manner.

An offer was extended to me to visit their manufacturing facilities and I may do that at a later date if the offer is still open and they show a more open approach to their customers.

Thanks,

John