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-   -   Opinions on the wind farm??? (http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/showthread.php?t=13575)

Karl F 03-02-2010 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Backbeach Jake (Post 751698)
Swimmer, if the Government didn't give public lands to utilitys, we'd have no telephone, no electricity, no gas. We'd be living at early 1800s levels.

Well Said Fred..

now given that...

as we both know.. Wind was invented in Truro..when the wind blows up there on the top of them hills, it howls..

a lot of acres that are not used or accessed much, owned by the Federal Govt. ...

Truro Wind Farm.. :uhuh:

striperman36 03-02-2010 08:56 PM

I go past the two in Portsmouth everyday. PHS I believe pays for it own electricity and kicks 200K back in surplus to the town.
The Abbey has a similar but smaller number.

I want a small one on my roof.

Backbeach Jake 03-03-2010 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karl F (Post 751708)
Well Said Fred..

now given that...

as we both know.. Wind was invented in Truro..when the wind blows up there on the top of them hills, it howls..

a lot of acres that are not used or accessed much, owned by the Federal Govt. ...

Truro Wind Farm.. :uhuh:

My Grandfather had a windmill that pumped his well. It's been done.
I wonder if the NIMBY crowd would change their minds if their Town got free power for hosting a wind farm..

Raven 03-03-2010 06:14 AM

there's new designs that are low profile for home owners

Joe 03-03-2010 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Backbeach Jake (Post 751775)
My Grandfather had a windmill that pumped his well. It's been done.
I wonder if the NIMBY crowd would change their minds if their Town got free power for hosting a wind farm..

They'd be against an ATM that gave out free money for town residents - too much noise and crowding....

RIROCKHOUND 03-03-2010 08:21 AM

Saltheart has it pretty much right.
It is an intensive process involving a lot of consideration. The Rhode Island progress has benefited from the Cape Wind struggle. I hope they both go forward. Any recreational fisherman against offshore wind is not thinking. they will not be restricting access. Think Rig fishing in the gulf coast...

Joe 03-03-2010 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Backbeach Jake (Post 751698)
Swimmer, if the Government didn't give public lands to utilitys, we'd have no telephone, no electricity, no gas. We'd be living at early 1800s levels.

Last I checked the proposal was to build in the ocean? Soliciting opinions is a dog-and-pony show when you know the answer is 'no' already. It's like trying to business with someone you know you can't make money with as soon as you look at them.

It's also important to note that if the wind farm produces power at 33% more than the current cost of coal burning power plants initially, the frequent increase in electric costs will begin to diminish the inefficiency of the wind farm each time our electric rates go up.

JohnR 03-03-2010 09:11 AM

I'll take a smaller turbine in my back yard please. That, and throw in a Nuke in Little Compton

Fishpart 03-03-2010 09:39 AM

A major issue that no one considers with an offshore wind farm is that the life of the equipment is significantly reduced due to the continuous exposure to salt water. The Jamestown bridge is a good example to what happens to the "usual" construction materials when exposed to a marine environment.

Wind power ..a good idea, offshore not so because to be economicly viable it will need to have a significant amount of taxpayer subsidy and right now this taxpayer can't afford any more...

fishbones 03-03-2010 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND (Post 751805)
Any recreational fisherman against offshore wind is not thinking. they will not be restricting access. Think Rig fishing in the gulf coast...

I had this conversation with my dad a couple of years ago while out fishing out off the south side of the Cape. It could be a huge benefit to fishermen. I'm all for it if it really is cost effective.

Swimmer 03-03-2010 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Backbeach Jake (Post 751698)
Swimmer, if the Government didn't give public lands to utilitys, we'd have no telephone, no electricity, no gas. We'd be living at early 1800s levels.

But we are paying for this to be constructed. Not only providing the land/water, but the financing as well.

You will see once the permits are issued, completely different entities owning the wind farm.

We should own it.

Swimmer 03-03-2010 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishpart (Post 751826)
A major issue that no one considers with an offshore wind farm is that the life of the equipment is significantly reduced due to the continuous exposure to salt water. The Jamestown bridge is a good example to what happens to the "usual" construction materials when exposed to a marine environment.

Wind power ..a good idea, offshore not so because to be economicly viable it will need to have a significant amount of taxpayer subsidy and right now this taxpayer can't afford any
more...

This has been one of the concerns that I have raised as well. Twenty, thirty years from now when energy is produce more economically, by another means, who is going to remove the eyesores. Look at southern Califonia, east of the Sieras adjacent to Edwards air force base. They are all over the place, like dune monsters.

Nebe 03-03-2010 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by likwid (Post 751706)
Unless you have wheels, Nantucket Sound IS a hazard to navigation.

Also Gosnold has it in the works to tell MV to screw itself and have a windfarm put up in their neighborhood.

How many remember the old windmill on Cuttyhunk? Hmm? Maybe Nebe? :hihi:


loud m-efer... if i remember right it was taken down because it was driving everyone nuts.

JohnR 03-03-2010 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebe (Post 751932)
loud m-efer... if i remember right it was taken down because it was driving everyone nuts.


Louder than the diesel generator?

FishermanTim 03-03-2010 03:28 PM

Now what makes you think that you would be allowed to fish anywhere near these structures when they are built?
You may be able to fish, say 100' away from them, but nothing like we have imagined.
How close can you fish near the Plymouth power plant?
Remember the "no fishing/boating" zone established around Deer Island?

We are definitely counting our chickens before they are hatched, heck before the eggs have even been laid!

fishbones 03-03-2010 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FishermanTim (Post 751960)
Now what makes you think that you would be allowed to fish anywhere near these structures when they are built?
You may be able to fish, say 100' away from them, but nothing like we have imagined.
How close can you fish near the Plymouth power plant?
Remember the "no fishing/boating" zone established around Deer Island?

We are definitely counting our chickens before they are hatched, heck before the eggs have even been laid!

What makes you think you wouldn't be able to fish right up against them? Who do you think would own the turbines?

RIROCKHOUND 03-03-2010 03:43 PM

Coast Guard was pretty clear. I believe it is like the bridges and buoys, you can fish next to them, just can't tie up to them.

Raven 03-03-2010 03:44 PM

great logic fishbones
 
we paid for them therefore we fish next to them :love:

Raven 03-03-2010 03:46 PM

was lookin at a different configuration
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnR (Post 751956)
Louder than the diesel generator?

based upon a jet engine design

thats round instead of rotating blades

but nothing was mentioned about decibles

FishermanTim 03-03-2010 03:51 PM

That makes sense.
All it would take would be for one person to have an accident/incident with one and it could change.

likwid 03-03-2010 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnR (Post 751956)
Louder than the diesel generator?

Considering it was on the second highest hilltop on the island with 40 year old inefficient aluminum blades/hub/stator (?)...

YES!

It hadn't been used in nearly 20 years and was on the verge of falling down when they took it down.

PRBuzz 03-05-2010 03:38 PM

Indian Wars:

Pocasset Wampanoag tribe supports Cape wind farm


A Wampanoag Indian tribe from Massachusetts is supporting a proposed Nantucket Sound wind farm opposed by two tribes closer to the project.

The Pocasset Wampanoag chairman George Spring Buffalo wrote to Interior Secretary Ken Salazar, who is considering the 130-turbine Cape Wind project.

The Mashpee and Gay Head Wampanoag say Cape Wind would be built on long-submerged burial grounds and interfere with sacred rituals.

Buffalo wrote Wednesday that his tribal elders had never seen or heard about those rituals.

He said Cape Wind fits a vision for energy "produced in harmony with nature."

Minor Detail: Buffalo said his 200-member tribe isn’t federally recognized, like the other tribes.

Saltheart 03-05-2010 10:55 PM

Many Green technologies are right on the verge of becoming economical. Many are jsut break even now but would be economical if they were mass produced. Solar cells are about break even and should be money makers in 5 years or so. Wind needs to also get benefits from economies of scale and also newer superconduxting technologies which will make each mill able to generate 10 times more power. I think in the next ten years , many of these things will break through into black ink as costs of alterbnatives come down while costs of fossil based go up. I think their time has come.

striperman36 03-06-2010 08:44 AM

I say do it. It's better than LNG from Yemen

likwid 03-06-2010 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saltheart (Post 752557)
Many Green technologies are right on the verge of becoming economical. Many are jsut break even now but would be economical if they were mass produced. Solar cells are about break even and should be money makers in 5 years or so. Wind needs to also get benefits from economies of scale and also newer superconduxting technologies which will make each mill able to generate 10 times more power. I think in the next ten years , many of these things will break through into black ink as costs of alterbnatives come down while costs of fossil based go up. I think their time has come.

Alot of the "cost" are the lobbyists fighting against it. Slowly but surely some of the heavy hitters are starting to become FOR wind power.
I know of at least one that dropped oil and went to wind.

Swimmer 03-08-2010 12:54 PM

130 wind turbines, gee the Fugowee race could slalom through the wind farm and award prizes in various events.

It is ironic that O'Bama heralded the start of the process for issuing permits to another nuclear energy plants a couple of weeks ago. Did you greeen guys no that?

RIROCKHOUND 03-08-2010 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swimmer (Post 752973)
130 wind turbines, gee the Fugowee race could slalom through the wind farm and award prizes in various events.

It is ironic that O'Bama heralded the start of the process for issuing permits to another nuclear energy plants a couple of weeks ago. Did you greeen guys no that?

1. Oh no! A hazard to navigation!
There was a naval officer (retired) from Europe that came and spoke to the RI concerns about the spacing and size. he was qualified b/c to speak to navigation issues since he had driven a destroyer through a similar wind farm with zero issues and more than enough room to spare. Likwid, can the Maxi sized racers even go on Horseshoe now?

2. Absolutely. Most 'green guys' I know have ZERO issue's with Nuke power. trust me, if the potential is there to build, the industry will develop a method of storing and or reusing the spent material.

JohnnyD 03-08-2010 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND (Post 752979)
2. Absolutely. Most 'green guys' I know have ZERO issue's with Nuke power. trust me, if the potential is there to build, the industry will develop a method of storing and or reusing the spent material.

Agreed. Nuclear is far better than Coal, Oil or NG in my opinion.

PRBuzz 03-08-2010 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyD (Post 753009)
Agreed. Nuclear is far better than Coal, Oil or NG in my opinion.

I like nuclear energy but there still really isn't a viable, cost effective way to dispose of spent fuel rods. It is my understanding there are hundreds to thousands of rods still to be disposed which have been generated over the past 40 years. Anybody have a different understanding?

RIROCKHOUND 03-08-2010 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PRBuzz (Post 753014)
I like nuclear energy but there still really isn't a viable, cost effective way to dispose of spent fuel rods. It is my understanding there are hundreds to thousands of rods still to be disposed which have been generated over the past 40 years. Anybody have a different understanding?

You are not wrong, but I think that stems from the construction of no new plants. Tell that industry there will be more built, here are the guidelines, and the disposal will be figured out quickly. Options are out there.

maddmatt 03-08-2010 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homerun04 (Post 155333)
simplify life....go back to old ways....no on the the wind farm.....IMO

living in caves??

ProfessorM 03-08-2010 04:03 PM

IMO, build them already, what is taking so long?

ProfessorM 03-08-2010 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyD (Post 753009)
Agreed. Nuclear is far better than Coal, Oil or NG in my opinion.

my father in law has his Doctorate in Physics and he says Nuke is the only way to go. I will listen to him, but not usually his daughter

striperman36 03-08-2010 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfessorM (Post 753044)
my father in law has his Doctorate in Physics and he says Nuke is the only way to go. I will listen to him, but not usually his daughter

We'll store the rods on you neighbors farm. It's all cleared out now, so transport and stackin shouldn't be a problem.

JohnnyD 03-08-2010 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by striperman36 (Post 753091)
We'll store the rods on you neighbors farm. It's all cleared out now, so transport and stackin shouldn't be a problem.

Storing spent rods, throwing tons of noxious gases into the air, ugly to look at, drastic changes to the ecosystem - there is a negative to every method of power generation be it nuclear, coal/oil/NG, wind or hydro.

spence 03-08-2010 07:01 PM

As long as it's not in my backyard I don't really care.

-spence

Saltheart 03-09-2010 01:03 AM

There are methods for storing nuclear waste in containers that are corrosion resistant for 100,000 years. The basic idea is that in that much time we may figure out a better way.

I have no problem with Nukes for power generation.

It won't be long in the grand scheme of things until sustainable fusion reactors and other new technologies eliminate all energy concerns. With limitless energy we will also someday synthesize any material we want. All we have to do is not kill eachother before that time comes.

I am absolutely sure the technology will solve the matter/energy issues. I hold out little hope that we won't blow ourselves back into the stone age. More than likely we will destroy the planet because we just hate anybody who has a different idea than us about God. A bunch of animals who's loftiest ideas will result in our extinction.

Karl F 03-09-2010 07:11 AM

[QUOTE= More than likely we will destroy the planet because we just hate anybody who has a different idea than us about God. A bunch of animals who's loftiest ideas will result in our extinction.[/QUOTE]

Truer words were never spoke..

Religion should never mix or influence government, or foriegn relations.
but.. we let it, and ...here we are.. non stop pissing contests over who's invisible man is better...:yak5:

Karl F 03-10-2010 09:16 AM

Monomoy might get wind power
 
As part of a federal project to renovate the Monomoy Lighthouse, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is proposing to build a 75-foot wind turbine to generate electricity for the historic structure.


The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service plans an historic rehabilitation of the Monomoy Lighthouse and keeper’s house. Part of the project also calls for a 75-foot wind turbine to generate electricity for the remote site. CHRISTOPHER SEUFERT PHOTO
The project, which is being funded through the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, will restore the historical integrity of the 40-foot-tall lighthouse, the keeper’s house and an oil shed, all of which are listed on the National Register of Historic Places. The last major work on the structures was done in 1988, and the harsh environment of the Monomoy National Wildlife Refuge has taken its toll.

“That previous work all has to be redone,” said Refuge Manager David Brownlie. Once restored, the agency hopes to reopen the buildings for use by the service and other agencies.

“We hope to utilize it more for our own staff, and in addition, we’re hoping in the very least it can be reopened to short-duration tour stops,” Brownlie said.

The cast-iron, brick-lined lighthouse and wood-framed keeper’s house were both built in 1849. Work on the lighthouse includes exterior restoration, painting, window replacement, cast-iron repair, rehabilitation of interior stairs, brick repointing and repainting. Work on the keeper’s house includes site and foundation work, exterior wood rehabilitation and replacement, window restoration, deck replacement, interior wood and plaster repair, plumbing, mechanical, electrical and structural work. Cost is projected at between $1 million and $5 million.

The work will also include replacement of the old cesspool with a composting toilet and new electrical well, which will require power.

According to Brownlie, two plans are being considered to generate approximately 15 kilowatts of electricity. One is a single traditional propeller-blade wind turbine mounted on a 75-foot monopole. The other is a vertical corkscrew-type turbine, which requires a smaller pole. While the six- to eight-foot vertical turbines will operate in lower wind conditions than the propeller-driven turbine, they only generates about four kilowatts of power each, so four of them would be needed, he said.

Because Monomoy is a migratory bird sanctuary and home to many threatened and endangered species, including piping plovers and roseate terns, there is concern about a turbine’s impact on the avian population. Brownlie said the agency is in the process of doing an environmental assessment and is completing an internal discussion on endangered species compliance. That deals specifically with plovers and roseate terns; the overall environmental assessment will consider other shorebird species.

Brownlie said similar turbines are in operation at several other National Wildlife facilities, and they’ve been monitored for bird strikes.

“It’s a very, very low incidence of even suspected bird strikes,” he said, “and a majority of those have been from starlings who nested in openings in the turbines.” He has seen no documentation of plover, tern or other shorebird mortality due to wind turbines of the size and type being proposed.

“These are not Cape Wind, large capacity big wind turbines,” Brownlie said, referring to the Cape Wind proposal to install 130, 258-foot turbines at Horseshoe Shoal in Nantucket Sound. “They’re much smaller.” However, the turbine will probably be visible from the mainland, he said, and from a “considerable distance offshore, in good weather.”

Monomoy’s huge tern colony is mainly located at the northern tip of South Monomoy (which is no longer an island since it is attached to South Beach), a considerable distance from the lighthouse. Plovers have nested in the vicinity of the lighthouse, Brownlie said, with one nest last year within 100 yards of the structure. Construction isn’t expected to begin until August, after shorebirds have nested and the young have fledged, but any nests near the work area will be more closely monitored, he said.

The project also include making the refuge’s Morris Island headquarters buildings more energy efficient. A vertical wind turbine is also under consideration there, Brownlie said.

“Quite frankly, we don’t know if we’re going to end up with a wind turbine” on the mainland portion of the refuge, he said. Engineers, planners and refuge officials were slated to meet on both projects Tuesday. The headquarters project will also include weatherization of the buildings and installation of solar panels on the dorm building.

Fish and Wildlife officials met with town officials last Thursday to discuss the project. The agency will have to file for permits from the conservation commission and board of health, said Dr. Robert Duncanson, director of the department of health and environment. The biggest concern of local officials is how equipment and material will be brought to the island, he said.

“They’re going to need a lot of material out there for what they’re proposing,” he said. Initial plans call for equipment and material to be brought to the remote location by helicopter, he said.

Swimmer 03-10-2010 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyD (Post 753104)
Storing spent rods, throwing tons of noxious gases into the air, ugly to look at, drastic changes to the ecosystem - there is a negative to every method of power generation be it nuclear, coal/oil/NG, wind or hydro.


I wonder if you can turn a spent rod into a lure? Coat it with E-tex.


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