Thought I would also pass this along. George Elliot is one of the swiftvets against Kerry. Here's what george had to say about John Kerry in 1969...
And then in 1996 He said this about John Kerry...
Then Elliot calls him a liar in the swiftvet commercial, then retracts it :confused:

He served a bit over 4 months, taking the option to leave early because he had 3 Purple Hearts.

Education spending has gone up, but don't think No Child Left Behind isn't still a sham. There isn't a method for the schools who need help to get it and the money isn't really being used. The act punishes schools punatively for not meeting the criteria.

The net effect is that schools are teaching for the tests and the kids suffer...

-spence

I could be wrong Ebon But I totally thought he served 4 months then left. Sorry for them F bombs also! I get all riled up like most talking politics! :D

'tis alright Skip, F-bombs have thier place.... especially in the Senate. :hihi:

http://www.motherjones.com/news/upda...02/02_400.html a good side by side comparrison of Kerry and Bush durring Vietnam... and it looks like I was mistaken about 3 years of service.. but he was wounded 3 times hich sent him home.. my bad:rolleyes:

Spence... yeah I read mother Jones... I admit it :smash:

:D

F-bombs have thier place.... especially in the Senate
:hihi:

MRMACEY- I HOPE YOU HEAR THE POP.

Hey afterhours
 

I hear it!! I hear it!!!:laughs: :laughs:

mrmacey betcha 4 quality plugs that you're wrong. you can view some of my work on plug building forum. do you want your taxes to be raised to support lazy people who play the system? better you than me! never claimed to love gwb, just can stand kerry. btw i'm an independant voter and don't blindly follow part lines as some.

mrmacey what happened to your last post- it's gone.

Afterhours.. lazy people can still play the system now with Bush in office... Would you rather have country with a multi-trillion dollar deficet and kids dying every day so we can continue Bush's "crusade"?

The way Bush is cutting taxes and spending more is like a teenager with his first credit card :smash: someone is going to have to pay for it sooner or later...:smash:

maybe i just remember the tax AND spend days of past dem. administrations (carter). and the diverting the $$$ from intelligence agencies (slick willie) that i believe had a direct impact on 9/11. i don't like giant deficets or kids dying . i want them home asap. maybe chrisl was right- the wabbit hunter for pres:D

momma told me never to talk politics online.....

couldnt even get a tissue
 

http://politicalhumor.about.com/gi/d...com%2Funb.html

used the girls shirt.

I really cannot comprehend most of the anti - Bush comments.

Eben - He'll go after Iran or North Korea (remember they actually do have WMD)... i'd bet a plug on that, and then how many people will have died? does anyone have kids that are about 16 or 18?? you can probably count on a draft in that case-

What if we DID go after Afghanistan, pre- 9/11? You'd be saying the same thing. But what if, just if, it could have prevented 9/11?? What if?
9/11 was a wake up call for me. I dont give a crap about the UN and they have NO say in the security of MY country.
Look at the UN security council, in 200 years we pretty much had wars with all of them, think they love the US? Think they give a crap about 9/11????

One point to ponder - If Bush was a criminal and a liar - how incredibly easy would it have been to take 20 barrels of sarin gas, a few al-queda manuals and a map of new york and stick them in a bunker in Iraq? Way too easy.. It would ensured Bush's re-election and snubbed all the countries that were against our invasion
The fact that the US did not find WMD only proves Bush is not as dishonest as you say he is.


I'm employed, my company is growing, the economy survived a stock market crash and a terror attack and - we've had NO terrortist attacks on US soil ince 9/11. BUSH - 2004, I hope the next 4 years are as good as this.

This is perhaps the most absurd thing I have ever heard, next to Eben promising he could get me a keeper :rolleyes:

What your saying is that since Bush didn't toss a kilo of coke into the trunk as he was inspecting the car, the police are somehow more credible??? :confused:

9/11 was a wakeup call. Agreed, so why did the Bush admin fight the 9/11 panel's creation and almost refuse to testify before it? Why did Bush refuse to speak under oath before the panel and only with #^&#^&#^&#^& Cheney by his side?

Why is it almost three years since 9/11 and very little has changed in our intelligence services?

Why do 55% of the American people believe we are headed in the wrong direction?

Why does almost helf the country believe Bush misled the country on WMD in Iraq?

:smash:

-spence

enlighten me.. what do you think the next 4 years will be like? Do you think He'll go after Iran or N Korea? Do you think there will be another attack?

Can you honestly say with a straight face that Bush has never decieved the Citizens of the United states?

IF you gave me 20 bucks... you never gave me 20 bucks :rtfm:

no wait.. the keepers were there acording to the intellegence givin to me at that time.. but rest assured the narragansett coastline is a safer place since we fishied it... even if there were no keepers and the intelegence was faulty, narraganset is safer:yak:

:buds: Eben, we are one :D

-spence

Wait a minute...I must spend trillions of my baby diaper budget trying to find these keepers that dont exist.. You see, my buddy who ownes the tackleshop is going to make a killing off me, and when I retire from fishing, he's going to take real good care of me ;)

Even though there really are keepers at block island.... I'm still staying the course :laughs:

looks like more distortion of the facts by the junior. Just look at the choice of words, etc.

I love it. THIS GUY SCARES THE PISS OUT OF YOU FOLKS :laughs: :laughs:

Now Georgie, he is one of the most HONEST men we have had in the WHouse in ages.


what a joke finger pointing is. From both sides :smash:

:laughs: :laughs:

You live on an island...

ya so.......

Did this guy say GW = honest :confused:

-spence

Do you live on an eeeevil Island?

Spence, I find it hard to use the "most Americans think" or " 55% of Americans think".
Personally, I think most Americans are morons. 60% of Americans are overweight, many smoke cigarettes, many believe what they see on the evening news as 100% and unbiased. Most live their lives in front of the TV. I don't take public opinion as meaning any thing. Neither did our founding fathers, thats why its not the populare vote that elects our president, its the electoral college.

Eb, as far as further "invasions" ....Iraq attacked Kuwait 13 years ago, as part of their "surrender", there where mandatory inspections, mandatory no-fly zones. Iraq kicked out inspectors and randomly shot at US planes enforcing the no-fly zones. Is it okay to shoot at Americas' enforcing the UN negotiated surrender? Think about it, they shot at AMericans, that alone is justification for war in my book. Iraq then let inspectors back in, then failed to comply with the requests. There were 3 UN security council resolutions demanding Iraq comply and promising severe consequences.
All 3 times they did not meet the requirements and all 3 times no country did ANYTHING, nor did the UN. Did you guys forget about all that?
Iran and N. Korea have not invaded their neighbors nor have they violated UN resolutions. N. Korea scares me and I think its a tricky situtation.

I'm not saying Bush is the best president ever, I just believe in the path he has taken. I do not believe he has misled the country I believe he acted in what he thougt was the best course of action. I believe 9/11 is a direct result of Clinton's presidency, and the Democrats cuts in intelligence and defense spending. John Kerry is not a good candidate for President, all he does is play the Vietnam card. He is a mediocre senator with no major initiatives under his belt.
I am not a republican many of my views - pro choice, funding for the arts and familes - side with the Dems. I wish Rudy Giullani was running, I'd vote for him. He also supports Bush.
Im shutting my mouth on this topic. I cannot say I agree at all with most of your arguments but thankfully we live in a country that allows us to discuss.

Sign up another person for Bush's "Scared Right" program.

If you think this country will be any less safe under Kerry, you are only lying to yourself and you have also bought into Bush's campaign startegy of scare tactics. Bush is not the sole provider of proctection from terrorism. Bush has merely seen advent of a new stance on terrorism brought about by 9/11. Previously, it was not okay to just go kill potential terrorists. You could watch them hang out in desert via satellite; however, you could not go into a foreign country to kill these terrorists without that country's explicit permission. After 9/11 it has been open season on terrorists - no questions asked. This change in doctrine is the only difference between Bush and his predecessors. The Bush camp realizes this is the only "achievement" they can campaign on. Accordingly, we have terror alerts over nothing; we are constantly put in a state of fear; we are told that only Bush can calm these threats; we are told the John Kerry can not curtail these threats. Get real. This country will be just as safe with John Kerry as it would be with Bush. So, voting for Bush SOLELY on the grounds of protection from terrorism is illogical at best.

What is more, isn't a war on terrorism just as arbritrary as a war on car accidents or a war on cancer? Wouldn't a potential war on cancer save many, many more lives than a war on terrorism? After all, isn't 200 billion dollars is a hefty pricetag to protect against such a rare way to die as death by terrorism?

Lastly, I am fiercely independent with more of a conservative lean, and I understand and feel that Kerry is not the perfect candidate, but I can't believe people are even considering voting for Bush. He is the epidomy of what's wrong with American politics. He is all negative campaigning. Have you heard one message from Bush that only centerred on Bush, his accomplishments, or record? Didn't think so. Have you seen nothing but a smear campaign? Is how you think American politics should be? Ask yourself. Question your vote, and vote with the facts not some lip service and negative campaigns.

Well said :btu:

-spence

ditto

Im not scared at all. Im confident and I have no fear. You guys are the ones that want a change, so you must be afraid of something.

dc - Wouldn't a potential war on cancer save many, many more lives than a war on terrorism? After all, isn't 200 billion dollars is a hefty pricetag to protect against such a rare way to die as death by terrorism

Stop smoking, exercise, minimize stress and avoid processed foods.
There I just saved the country billions of dollars fighting cancer. Will anyone take my advice? Not likely.


PS - Bush is running a negative campaign? Huh? The media (liberal media by the way) feeds you junk and you eat it up. I do not follow anyone's campaign but do my own research. I do not listen to what the candidates say, I look at what they do.
Pretty tought to do with Kerry, he never did anything but go to Vietnam.

RJ, you should preface your statement that Kerry "never did anything but go to Vietnam" with IN MY OPINION

as a well researched american citizen you must have loads of substantive information to support such a proclamation.

:rolleyes:

Your right BW, hows this:
In my opinion, as a US senator, John Kerry has not achieved anything significant in his position. He has been a follower and not a major leader in any senate comittee or endeavor.


"I oppose abortion, personally. I don't like abortion. I believe life does begin at conception."

- John Kerry

"If Saddam Hussein is unwilling to bend to the international community's already existing order, then he will have invited enforcement, even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act."

- John Kerry

20 years in the US Senate isn't an accomplishment? Just because Kerry hasn't sponsored a ton of bills doesn't mean he hasn't added considerable value and provided significant service.

I happen to share nearly the same position on abortion. Am I contradictory as well?

And your quote is out of context, read the full NYTimes op-ed piece and his position is crystal clear.

-spence

thanks Jimmy. You are a stand up guy.

Do you have a date for the second quote ? Was that before or after the Bush WH conned Congress into thinking that there were WMD's ?

You see I am not informed enough on this issue and you just might be.

I agree with Spence.

Because one DOESN't support abortion doesn't mean that is how you vote.A representatives job is to represent his/her CONSTITUENTS and not use it as a personal position.

Jimmy is a very typical Bush supporter - he knows nothing besides what Karl Rove and Co. has told him to think.

He proved one of my points too. Bush and his minions only focus on attacking Kerry. They NEVER EVER try and laud Bush. Ask them a question about Bush's policy - they answer by bashing Kerry. Ask them about Bush's vision for the future - they answer by bashing Kerry. Ask them about the 420 billion dollar deficit - they answer by bashing Kerry.

Jimmy, it's time you take some information from independent sources. And no, Fox News is not objective.

On the abortion quote, how can you say you believe life begins at conception and then support abortion? That means you support ending a life which = murder. How can you rationalize ending a life?
Is a fundamental belief of pro abortion that life does not begin at conception.

"Is a fundamental belief of pro abortion that life does not begin at conception"

Yes, and it is a fundamental belief of pro-choice that women have a choice regardless of the conception issue. He is pro-choice which is not necessarily pro-abortion.

So he believes that life begins at conception, and he believes in the right to terminate that life? So to rephrase: I believe that baby is alive and I also believe you have a right to kill it.
If you guys don't see the absolute absurdity of that, i give up. Kerry is definitely your man!

I'm going to try and grow up and not look at this thread again, Im a big boy I can do it.....will power

The difference is...do you force your religious beliefs onto others, or does society create laws that are generally accepted for the common good?

It's clear that the majority of Americans believe abortion should remain legal in some form. If that's the case then it's the individual's morality that ultimately drives their choice.

I would think republicans would admire Kerry's position. He's a man of faith and believes in the individual (not govt) making decisions.

-spence

Abortion is the most fickle of issues. Each side will stick to their beliefs no matter what. It is a very divisive issue, and very few people waffle on the issue. However, people have agreed to disagree, and made it an issue of choice. If you feel strongly that an abortion is murder, don't get an abortion. If you feel strongly that abortion is not murder, feel free to get an abortion. There is no right or wrong side to the argument only strong feelings.