:bshake:

Nice :D
I agree wood is a easyer medium to work with plus it's abundancy & types Teek,oak,ash ect....I think it's great to work with it & it has very forgiving property's as a medium.

I also like the Yo-Zori line of Surface Cruiser I think they use somthing like "poly-balsa"? SP?
I have a bunch that have been banged on rock's & just plain-ol abused from fish,they still hold there shape & no chipping to the body but the paint get's a little beat.If one wanted IM sure you could touch it up or ultimatly sand it down & give it you're own paint job.

I'd like to get into molding some I think one of the hardest part could be getting the plastic.

That's why I like Super Strike darters and poppers. They take serious abuse, even on the rocks.

I never tried the Super strikes,Ill have too try some this season.


5/0

Nice bum Sailor . . . you going to the gathering Saturday :D

We can have a beer and talk stagflation, supply side economics and trickle-down theory . . . . :laughs:

Actually, let's talk about obscure itemized deductions and sneaky ways to get out of the AMT. That's more actionable stuff. :laughs:

rapidly
 

eliminate the non essentials.... then have another cocktail

Stagflation....slack flood tide at the canal?

Supply side economics....a blitz??

Trickle down theory......when you have to pee bad but the bass are biting??? :)

is there a saturation, maybe. i see a lot of "casual builders" and that's cool. but, if you start selling, you better start thinking about uncle sam before he comes knocking. i know of one that was pinched in the last few years. but, that's a whole other issue.

a few guys have made the niche plug and have done well. some have tried to copy it to follow the leader. i only know of a few companies/builders that i trust for their quality on each and every lure. i don't need to examine each one to see if it's true or will swim right. rarely are they a problem. they use the best processes building them. some even go a step further and put the best hardware on the lures, which is always a big plus. i have no problem spending $20 on a lure if it does what i want. one fish over 20#s and the lure paid for itself. but, i also believe that the cream always rises to the top. the same is true for lure manufacturers. i've seen it in the surf too many times. many want to play the game, but they leave only after a few seasons. how many of these guys will be around after 2, 3, 6 years of trying to get into the game and find out what supply and emand is really all about. make 50 a year, great. now, make a few thousand +, the same quality each time and do it over and over and...

cowhunter, i agree w/ you about live bait and boat fishing, but you cannot fish in a boat in a gale and you cannot throw eels in the surf during a gale w/ the wind in your teeth. only a couple lures will work in those conditions. so, there is always a need. anyone can buy a "great lure", but it the guy that knows when to throw what that cashes in.

as for this new gibbs line, why don't they pay attention a little and do some homework. lose the crap mustad hooks. i'd rather pay an additional dollar for a lure and get vmc's than worry about my mustad straightening out or breaking under minimal pressure. go back 15-25 years and see how your lures used to be made. copy those designs again, not the latest designs that the last 2 joker buyers produced. they are all junk.

Well, really I'm more concerned about what to do when you're in the middle of a blitz and you have to scratch your butt but you have your waders and oilskin top on and you can't reach around.

Cost difference would be maybe 25 cents?

Seawolf, did you read what I posted? Joker Buyers? Who else was there? Have you ever talked with them personally? Did you call them and have an intelligent discussion on upgrades and what fishermen like yourself would like to see or do you just pompously type in your thoughts on a thread like this? Lot's of good that does.

Forget the .25 adder. You got the split ring, Vmc hook ( which rust just as fast) the time involved ( another step in the process) and the change in balance with the splits and hooks being that much offset and the slight increase in weight. If I was making them I would not sell them with hooks, like Beachmaster. Then you wouldn't have to listen to comments like the previous. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Selling them without hooks may result in a decrease in because less serious anglers, ones who would never think to change a hook never mind do it, would just not buy the plugs because they came without hooks. You’d be targeting a smaller group of serious fishermen. This would only be a good idea if you had to quality and reputation to support enough of them to sustain the business, like Beachmaster. Personally, I use Gibbs needles and pencil poppers quite often and just except having to change the hooks, much as I do with Super Strike plugs. To me, the main problem with Gibbs plugs over the last few years has simply been quality control – something that is difficult to control while keeping costs down in a labor intensive industry. Most of them are pretty good, you just have to look them over before buying one, difficult to do on-line. Shipping the work overseas would lower the cost of labor but is the industry large enough to offset shipping, insurance, etc. Just my opinion.

As far as being too many builders out there selling their stuff; I don’t think there are too many. The market will sort itself out. I don’t think there is room for many people to make a living off selling plugs commercially because the market is very regional and specific, but there is plenty of room for hobbyists, for lack of a better word, to make some extra money doing something that they enjoy doing anyway.

It's a lot like fly tying.
othing beats the feeling you get when you catch a fish on something that YOU made from scratch.
Sure, others make some SWEET plugs, but your buying THEIR creation, and they use their own color scheme.
When you make your own, you control the entire process, and you learn more about the process from your trails and errors.
I'll tell you, nothing felt as exhilirating as catching a rainbow trout or striper on flies that I tied, and I can't wait to try some homemade plugs this year.

My opinion, which is all it is, is that VMC hooks would add a value which may be percieved or real. Yes it would cost money and you may need to do some research to make it work. I think it would sell more plugs for them.
Gibbs was one of the great pioneers in plugbuilding and made and sold a lot of plugs.
There are a lot of analogies for companies that made great products and never changed them as time went by and went out of vogue, of course there are a few that have never changed and are still around, I just can't think of one.
I'm quite sure that VMC hooks and splitrings would cost less for material.

your not throwing them hard enough... LOL...

Last time i spoke with Don Musso from Super Strike he mentioned that he can buy VMC hooks for less than Mustads.The problem is that they don't come open-eye.So cost is not an issue

Closed eye with split rings only for this guy!;)

Split rings have no place on a plug. It should always be hook to swivel or tail loop. I can't understand why VMC doesn't get it. Thank God for Dremel tools. I hate the sight of them on a plug, I use them but I hate 'em.

The fish can't tell the difference Steve but I can. IMO I think the split ring adds a little more seductive wiggle not to mention strength. If you like those foolish open eye hooks then good luck to you then....I will stick with what works for me and always has.;)

I agree wit flap I am generally not a fan of split rings.I dropped a few fish a few yrs ago that i normally don't right around the time i started wit em so i removed em an I found my longline releases went down.i got a small pair of bolt cutters go thru hooks like butter.I just bend em to the side wit a good pair of vise grips the less marking them up the less rust.The VMC's rust up pretty quick when u mar the finish.After multiple fish nights u gotta change em up also they kinda get bendy an rust .I don't use pliers but guys that do have to change em out pretty fast.I still have a pretty good cache' of older mustads.I treat em like gold.the basic problem overall is wit the mustads the hook they make now is a sham.bends easy cut hooks break .They break under minimal load.How do they leave the factory.They gotta make some changes.U know they could come up wit a better configuration of metal.Its all about money.i would gladly pay an most anglers have shown the same. goin to all the japanese hooks that are in the market today. its time they get up to snuff.

I've been in business three years and I never got a phone call from a sales person from Gibbs or any of the bigger wooden lure companies. It's either you call them, or forget it.

The tackle industry has (by far) the worst business people I've ever met. Sadly, the market is populated by manufacturers who don't look for vendors, competitors who threaten each other, sales people who don't return phone calls, retailers who are rude to their customers. There is an industry wide disease of rampant unprofessionalism and its not working.

HABZIE
 

wow.

voted for golf wee.

the course is right next to the beach .... :hihi:

Re: HABZIE
 

Bruce, you are evil. :laughs:

Too many plug companies, but we need more couches at our spots :D

Unfortunately, very true. :rolleyes:

What a waste of beachfront property! :hihi: :bshake:

ok, flap. i do believe a long time ago i tried to email them, w/o a returned reply. as far as putting in "pompously thoughts lke this", i have, as many, many others, put in these thoughts, facts, and suggestions on boards like this for many years. there have been threads purposely titled w/ gibbs in the subject where others have complained about their plugs, be it mustad hooks, plugs cracking/splitting, poor paint quality, still using screw eyes on some plugs, etc. now, if you think i am naive enough to believe that they do not have people within the company or even people outside looking for them to report these things on these boards, then you are mistaken. and, if by some slim chance they do not look here or on other boards for these type of comments, then they are poor a business company. i respect others on this board that stick up for their company, are willing to post suggestions, and listen to these comments to change their product. obviously, one of them has changed theirs only after 1 month of unveiling it due to scrutiny here. where's gibbs? do they care? obviously not as they have not changed jack in the last 5-6 years and have in my opintion, gone downhill.

now, as for your comment about changing hooks/split rings myself, of course i do. theirs suck, but again, i do not buy their new stuff as i do not feel it is up to grade for what i want it to do. if i have any of their recent lures, the first thing i do is cut the wire out, put a real barrel in it, put vmc's on it, and rewire. sure, vmc's rust, but they still are strong months later. mustads simply are a weak, poor hooks due to changes forced on them by uncle sam. new hooks break w/ minimal pressure. hey, that's not my fault, change your designing processes and catch up to vmc, owner, tiamco, etc.

now, if gibbs wants to stay as they are and continue on the path that they have gone down, fine, but do not think you can compete with a company like habs, beachmaster, tattoo and the like that are higher quality, better design, and on top of the chain. gibbs raised their prices because of these other companies setting the market. gibbs just wants to cash in on their profits. gibbs needs to put all their lures in that "magic price range" that was talked about. more simply, $12. in my opinion, they are a $12 lure, no more. for them to ask $17 for any of their lures is an absolute joke. improve your quality, listen to what others have to say about your product, use better hooks and barrels, thru-wire you products and then maybe you can come play w/ the big boys. stan gibbs would be ashamed of what his company has become and what others are saying.

funny how joe lyons says that about dealing w/ gibbs. i have heard the same thing for several years now from shops i deal with. seems like they just do not care.

Gibbs has a lot of shelf space in a lot of tackle shops.

Gibbs also has a familiar brand name amongst anglers.

These are advantages that not many plug makers have.

Gibbs can easily screw it up by continuing to make a crappy product.

Flap, if you have any pull, ya gotta tell those new owners at Gibbs to improve the quality. Lest they throw away decades of hard work by Stan.

I don't buy them for all the reasons that Seawolf and numerous others have gone into ad nauseum.

Now that's a fighting chair !!

And i thought i was the only one

in all the shops I go in there is never enough wood

From SOL
"They look pretty good for the money. I saw two today which were kept underwater in a bait aquarium for three months as a demo. The paint just showed some signs of shrinkage (same as most plugs), no rust on the hardware. But the truth is in the catchin'. I'll give 'em a try.

Yes, they are made in Thailand. What I heard is a guy went there with samples of name-brand plugs and had many hundreds of them duped by the local labor, hence the low cost."