I don't think the "former liberal" description is that accurate, though I've seen it thrown around.

For sure some of the "early" neoconservative thinkers were former socialists, but the current crop were more intellectual conservatives that rejected the liberalisim of the Vietnam war.

Funny thing is that so many Goldwater and Reagan conservatives (including perhaps Bush 43) are just now realizing that they've been duped into aligning themselves with the neoconservatives simply because they saw liberal democrats as the only other alternative.

There is a tremendous number of disenfranchised moderates out there looking for leadership.

-spence

Yup.... But if I could rephrase your phrase to "There is a tremendous number of disenfranchised Americans out there looking for new Leadership for the future of America."

On that I would agree :)

-spence

That's pretty much it in the nutshell, Boss. Sometimes, it seems no one is at the wheel. Other times, those who are seem intoxicated. I have a real hard time feeling optimistic about this Country's future.

:wavey:

The only reason I am optimistic is because of how many people fit into JohnR's description of a what is becoming a larger and larger number of people in this country. All we need is someone with the ability to truly lead and inspire the nation again, in a way that doesn't alienate so many people on both sides of the middle.

Someone needs to step up and run with a platform like this. Not an extreme liberal or conservative, just logical leadership with an eye towards the future growth, strength, and health of America as well as a better global perspective of how our actions worldwide effect us here at home both in the near future and long term.

hey here is a noble idea. get our troups out of the middle east, support pallestine's quest to achieve the respect they deserve, stop f-ing with other countries squabbles, get off saudi oil, and guess what.

There will be little to no terrorism.

This isnt rocket science.

Plain and simple ~~~~~~~ I like it!
 

Nebe for president! :btu:

Now what about Malaysia, North Korea, and China?

What the hell....Canada is starting to look pretty gloomy as well.

If only it were that simple.

"In order that Allah may separate the pure from the impure, put all the impure ones [i.e. non-Muslims] one on top of another in a heap and cast them into hell. They will have been the ones to have lost." (Sura 8.37)

"Muster against them [i.e. non-Muslims] all the men and cavalry at your command, so that you may strike terror into the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others besides them who are unknown to you but known to Allah." (Sura 8.60)

"Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and deal harshly with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate." (Sura 9.73)

"When We resolve to raze a city, We first give warning to those of its people who live in comfort. If they persist in sin, judgement is irrevocably passed, and We destroy it utterly." (Sura 17.16-17)

"We have destroyed many a sinful nation and replaced them by other men. And when they felt Our Might they took to their heels and fled. They were told: 'Do not run away. Return to your comforts and to your dwellings. You shall be questioned all.' 'Woe betide us, we have done wrong' was their reply. And this they kept repeating until We mowed them down and put out their light." (Sura 21.11-15)

oh yeah.. one more thing to solve all problems-

ABOLISH RELIGION.

world peace will only be achieved when we all can find inner peace

those people are backwards
 

just looking at another mans wife
without a full covering is a sin
sex is a sin
everythings a sin
screw them and there sins
sin this:rocketem:

hey Nebe?
 

are you gonna hold S_B meditation classes at your house?

:jump:

Would it be impolite
 

to drop the big one now?




:hidin: :devil2: :faga:

dont worry. Iran is working on it.:rtfm:

Wait till they did us harm huh? So you want to wait for more 9/11's before we act? Wow, thats some scary thinking :err: Like i said...Pre 9/11 thinking so many on the left have. And its down right scary.

Nope! But Nebe would be rather upset that his muslim friends could be injured. We should drop flowers not bombs. We must be nice to them and they will be nice to us. According to Nebe its that simple. It has nothing to do with radical brain washed muslims. no thats not the problem. The problem is the US is not nice enough to Osama and his buddies. Ahhh dont ya just love how the left thinks :rollem:

****************************************
 

we are brainwashed to but not as inspired as them :pop:

We dont go around slitting each others throats and strapping bombs to our chest in the name of Allah. Ahhh Islam, the religion of peace! And alot of you guys think you can reason with these nuts. :doh: I wish we could reason with them but that aint gonna happen anytime soon. They are beyond reason.

Skip!
 

You crazy bastage :uhuh:



I don`t think they teach my grandson that all Muslims are the devil and the way to heaven is to kill as many as possible.

Something has to be done and it won`t be pretty.

Iran has a death wish if they keep up thier crap..... Many people dont know but alot of the middle east Muslim countries backed the nazis during WWII. There was even a branch of the SS made up of foriegn muslims towards the end of the war. They supported the nazis 60 years ago and they are the new nazis today. These folks dont have a very good track record making peace.....

The religious zealots over there have been fighting for over 1000 years. They will never agree to live peacefully with each other. Saddam kept semi control of the country by ruling with an iron fist. Not that I condone the things he did because I don't. But they seemed to work in keeping the warring factions at bay.

I personally don't believe a democratic government will ever work over there. Which ever group is elected be it sunni, shiite or whoever the loser will believe they were wronged and bloodshed will ensue. They won't settle for " ok our party lost this election. Maybe next election we will win". That will never happen. Their religious beliefs are something that most of us (myself included) will never be able to comprehend.

What should we do? I don't know. Should we pull our people out of there? We can't, we are in way too deep now. Until the people of Iraq start to turn in the "bad apples" the country will have problems. This will never happen though because what one side sees as terrorists the other side sees as martyrs. I believe a lot of the people over there live in fear of reprisal, and rightfully so.

Again, we shoulda kept our focus in Afghanistan. We didn't get after 9/11. That failure only emboldened the Iraqi resistance in our present mess. I feel that "W" attacked Iraq as some weird family vendetta. His Dad,41, quit for a reason. I'm just saying that we shouldn't attack any country unless there is proof that they have done us harm, or are about to. Proof with actual facts. All these opinions here are valid BTW, these are confusing and dangerous times. Folks are only trying to sort it all out. Some look outwardly, some look inwardly. If we look inwardly and discover that we should bear some of the blame, then maybe we should be more careful in the future.

Kill them with kindness.

Any ethnic or religious group that has been oppressed does not have a good track record for maintaining peace after the yoke of oppression has been lifted.


Germany
Korea
Vietnam
Cambodia
Iran
Serbia
Iraq
Afghanistan

We could list back thru the centuries what the areas that have not been able to keep the peace. Why should we expect Iraq to be different.

Bill

No, not what I had in mind at all.
1. Be prepared, militarily and intelligently and show it.
2. Treat other nations fairly.
3. If and when attacked, make an example of them so that even our allies cringe. But attack the offender and only the offender. No phantom WMDs. No they might. Just they did and now they're gone.

Yes, Osama is really a softie deep down. :rollem:

Let them kill each other off and hope they do a great job of it.

good points jake
 

but in my view....Iraq was like a felon let out of Jail on probation
and afterwards violated that probation so an arrest was neccessary.

The problem with this war....in essense was that the terrain makes things real difficult...mostly in Afganistan... those mountain ranges are
as dangerous as is Mt Everest.

But Iraq is a flat desert primarilly and in starting the war there, we now have a huge military base thats completely outsourced btw right smack in the middle of it....which gives us complete control over Syria Iran and any other trouble spot ....by having the materials close by.

Middle East
 

We have yet to devise a scenario for dealing with a people whose only possesion is thier religon. Or maybe just one other thing, and AK-47.

Yup, and some want us to reason with those people :smash:

You keep saying "when" we're attacked. Why do you want to sit back and wait to get wacked yet again? This is the fundamental differance between the left and the right. The left has your mentality that we should only attack when hit. While the right feels we should hit the enemy hard on thier turf to prevent our citizens from seeing more 9/11's or worse. You just havent learned anything after 9/11 have you?:doh:

Skippy, nobody is saying we should sit back and wait. But there's a middle ground between that and a liberal application of pre-emptive violence.

You do realize that the reckless and arrogant fools you defend are putting in place a militaristic and political structure for perpetual war don't you?

It's transformation through violence, and in their minds it just might work...

The ironic thing is that many like Cheney, Wolfowitz etc... are serious students of history...yet the historic precident for their actions isn't just absent, it's nearly a reversal of their expected outcome!

-spence

The blueprint for perpetual war is laid out as a directive very clearly in the Koran (look for yourself). Failure to prepare for that perpetual war will only lead us to become victims.

Yep, and the Bible says to stone all the gays to death :rollem:

All the more reason to pragmatically measure our actions. We can't win a militarized war against radical Islam.

There are hundreds of millions of Muslims who don't subscribe to Jihad.

-spence

and
 

let yee who is without sin cast the first stone....or was it misinterpreted and it should read: roll the first bone.:read:

the tree of life was a psychadelic mushroom...:uhuh:

the funniest star trek joke was.... when the Saudi Prince
visiting America said to the captain of the enterprise ACTOR...

i very much like the television show star trek....
but i must ask you one question...

why is it that i never see any Arabic people in space?

the Captain hesitates ...then sadly replies
....because in the future there are none.

What I've learned from 9/11, Skip is: If we hit them before they hit us, then that makes us them. I don't want to be them.

So i'm right....you'd rather have them set off a nuke in Chicago and then strike them. Rather than go on the offensive and protect the people of the US and save our citizens. Wow, thats some scary thinking. I;m sorry but that kinda thinking scares the %$%$%$%$ outta me. And no, you haven't learned a damn thing after 9/11. Your method will get us wiped off the planet by radical Islam. Thank god you will never be president

you guys should save your energy, what has bitching on the internet ever accomplished?

Don't want the job.. My point is that we didn't take care of business after we were hit in NY. I think we went after BinLaden half assed. We had him cornered and let a bunch of tribal dolts and crooks go in for the kill in Tora Bora. Well, who woulda guessed that plan would fail? That mountain should be a lake now. I'll stand by my ideals: don't strike first, but when struck lower the boom from hell. if you don't do it that way, if you're always striking first, you only gain enemies, and they are always trying to destroy you. If they are destroyed AFTER they hit first, whoever is still standing might see the benefit in being an ally. Just my thoughts, do you realize that if we were both from the Middle East we'd be looking for blood simply because we disagree? The whole situation is schrod-up. Chicago?

because
 

it's our way to vent ,releive stress and communicate...and its our fun.