What was that tourney they used to have for Bluefish - was it the Bluefish Boogie? It was pretty big for a while....

Flashback, circa 1992: Joe was at Quaker Lane B&T contemplating paying the $25 to enter - but decided against it as $25 bucks was kind of pricey and he was spending a lot on gas fishing six nights week. Still though, he was getting some big blues and the first prize was a Jeep that he would have looked good in. But ahh...what's the odds of winning?

Long story, short: The very next night, Joe goes out and twangs a 17-pound blue on a needlefish from along Jamestown's eastern shore - besting the Jeep winner by two-pounds.....

What does all this have to do with conservation and the ethics of fishing tourneys?
I have no blinking idea.
I do however know that not winning the new car hurts a lot more when you could have.

My understanding of how the contest works is that bragging rights are awarded to the club with the most points at the end of the season. If you were serious about winning, you would enter your two fish weekly to score the points for your club regardless if they were going to take the monthly top fish prize or not. I can't believe this wouldn't decrease the CnR among those members...

It just seems more than a little gratuitous...low size limit, frequent entries, big prizes for incentive (SUV, Grady White) and a season long duration.

I think with a few tweaks they could balance it a lot more and still put on a great tourney.

-spence

Yes, all there was was big bass, very poor YOY indices, and the fishery collapsed.

Indanite - I'm guessing you have not made up your mind because I can't see which side of the fence you're going to fall off of...

Let's keep this thread as good DEBATE. There is a lot of discussion on this that deserves hashing out more.

I'm pretty confident that OTW had no desire to create a "Kill Tourney" but instead was looking to recreate one of the greatest east coast tourneys in history, the Schaeffer Tournament. While I am personally encouraged by a regional Tourney (undecided if S-B participates as a team - on another thread) I am concerned about the potential fishery impact. Sure, there are plenty of "meat" tourneys around that just about all of us particpate in, typically weeklong / weekend tourneys like MDA, MSBA, Boston Harbor, etc.

So is the question that people would like to see OTW modify & reduce the "Kill Quotient"? And if so, HOW would you recommend it be done?

Increased minimum size ? Not fair to a lot of the noobs or those that can't target in best areas / methods (not that they would win anyway, but they could participate)

Max total of fish weighed in? Set a limit of X amount of fish per month? Set a limit of X amount of fish per person per TOURNEY?

What can be done to make this more conservation friendly?

I am supportive of a Tourney, but I would like to see modifications to reduce the pressure of this tourney and would like to see it further discussed. And, yes, don't look forward to see people cheating in it...

One more thing that I am sure will pi$$ some people off - commercial striped-bass permit holders should not be allowes to submit a fish during their open season. I know, it sucks, start the flame wars, but there is an advantage for them...


BTW - Harpoon makes my favorite beer in the world, doesn't mean I'm going to lay down on the tourney for it :buds:~ regardless of how close it is...

There sure is plenty to think about here. I'm amazed at the number of angles to consider. I'm grateful to you guys for pointing some of them out to me. I can be pretty clueless sometimes.

Questions?
 

Would there be this much controversy if it were named the Bluefish Cup? or the Dogfish Cup? or the Codfish Cup. Seems to me no one would have a problem with those species weighing in 2 a week.
Big blues aren't that easy to find lately up here. I haven't gotten a blue over 15 pounds in quite a few years. But most everyone that has "Striper fever" could cares less about most other species.

I have never fished a MV tourney, that is a month and a half long, but I don't recall this much talk about all those fish that are killed. Is that derby ok since it has been going for 60 years?

I very rarely enter tourneys outside of the ones within my club. But if there is a dollar involved people with be dishonest.

If OTW wants a tourney fine, give them a chance to work out the bugs. I am sure they will make changes yearly to satisfy differing opinions for various groups.

JohnR

Isn`t it very clear that I am undecided? :wavey: It is for me.

If they change it so tons of Stripers are not killed needlessly I`ll enter... if not I won`t and I`ll call, write, email, and post my opinions.

And............ most of the suggestions made to how to change the numbers I made early on when many didn`t say peep or that they would enter without question. At the same time I`ve been back and forth and conflicted but bottom line worried about too many Striped Bass being killed.

Respectfully,
Skitter

The world does not need another reason to kill striped bass, particularly the large spawners. This tournament is short sighted and irresponsible. "Recreating the past" is best left to politicans and old rock stars. On the Water could, and should, do much better for the resource we all have to share.

That other rag keeps a weekly tally at the back of the magazine, that way you know what size fish you would need to beat.


I like the idea of limiting people to so many fish over the life of the tournament.

Although maybe taking a big chunk of the population may not be a bad thing, considering that their food sources are not as plentiful as they should be.

me too Fred:wave:

Not about killin lots o fish for total points.Anymore.killed my share in NJ club tourney's.Definetly not a tree hugger though. i love to eat fish.
All kinds.
Not sure i need any pins either.If it becomes something along the lines of shaeffer i might miss out on ownin some when i'm old an gray an


I said this bout a 6 days ago.

Does anybody pay attention to the NIB.
:wall: :rotf2:
I still admit the Idea of bringin back the history of the tournament as a whole could be a good thing.I ten yr commitment would be nice for starters.I know how do they do that.But a fly by night 2 yr thing would be a real waste of fish an time.Without longevity there is no credability.

Good points but yes, it is a little different. Regs on bluefish are significantly looser than on bass so there is a difference. Cod & Dogfish aren't exactly known for their shorecatch abilitiy. None of the three have anywhere near the glamour and desire of the striped one. In fact, if you look at fish, in our waters, that are available to the usual person, the only thing on par would be freshwater bass. And those tournaments do Catch & Release.

I get 15# or better bluesfish from shore practically every year. I don't weigh them in, even though I would have likely won shore categories of most clubs I am in. Nor do I weigh in Bass that I know would place in tourneys unless I think I will win.

One month long and the system does not encourage the accumulation of points. Sure there are categories and weeklys and dailys but it really gears toward the bigger fish. Is it the most conservation friendly? Probably not. But fish can be donated to the food bank.

Unfortunately agree.

This is interesting as this is open discussion on this exact topic. OTW watches this site and others and will look, hopefully with an open mind, at this discussion and understand that it is just that, discussion. In fact, I would like to see some of them come on board to discuss... I think this tourney can be good but I would like to see it tweaked to be more conservation minded...

The funny thing about this is
 

that most of us only dream about catching a 30 #, 40#, or a 50# FISH. Give OTW a chance at working out the kinks before your wedgie causes blood loss to the extremities.

If every fish over 15lbs HAD to be released, I think your dream would be alot more likely to come true. Killing the largest and most fertile members of a species is not the way you make more large fish. Ensuring that smaller fish have more chance to breed, creates a smaller strain of fish. Ensuring the least efficent breeders breed, creates less fish. Why is that so hard for recreational fisherman to understand?

wooooooow..everbody has a valid opinion,,pro and con... this derby is brand new ,,right out of the box,,every otw dot head is watching this line for comment..and paying attition...the intress is fishing derby not a fishing war !!!!! give them a chance ,,it can only get better...try the derby for one year ,,if you are not happy ,,,then make your opinions know.... loudly !!!!! i like one fish per week per man

indanite ...thanks for remembering me ,,, it makes me feel good that i left a good imperssion when i wrote for the mag...i told only the truth ,about what i knew and were i fished,,my though is the spots were never mine alone ,,but for all of us,,, i know how to share....i,m almost 7 1/2 and i,m a big boy now???????only kiddin,,,

Nobody is against a big derby or against a nice dinner and beer fest afterwards. I like the fun and certainly like the beer. The whole point of the thread is to get the tournament organizers to consider a way in which the tourney can be big and fun without requiring a large fish kill.

I think it would be interesting to hear from the "rules committee" who came up with this current format. Why were the rules written as they are. I would guess in the excitement of planning a blockbuster tourney , nobody even considered the conservation angle. Its just something you have to take into consideration these days.

I never received a response to my 2 e-mails from last year's "OTW" controversial issue. :smash:

there not going to answer every e-mail sent espesaly if there geting flooded with hundreds on the the same issue.As far as the tournament goes NIB said it best,I love the idea they just need to change the rules so less fish are killed.

The only thing I can't figure out is that the OTW folks don't want people to send in any pictures of fish that have been taken/killed. They only want pictures of fish that are alive and look like they will be released. I understand this and the reason that they only want pictures in their magazine that look healthy for the fishery and the sport. But now they sponsor a kill tournament?

The folks that run OTW are good guys, so I'm sure they can make some changes to the tourney before it begins.

I can't imagine how you would run a C&R tourny and control cheating. Esp when it comes to cars and boats as prizes. I bet guys are coming up with cheating schemes as we speak.

The few big boat tournys that are run as C&R require a certified observer on board. I doubt you surf guys will hire an observer to watch out fish.


Once the prizes get big, cheating becomes a real problem. Kill contests are the only way to insure a fair contest. Even then it is tough. Killing a fish is not a sin. God put them on earth for us to eat. BESIDES according to OTW's own recent documents, you could not weigh a fish over 20# an let it go alive, it will die. 100% dead a given fact, so you may as well eat it.

I have a couple friends at Harpoon that I'll bring this all up to.
I'm sure once they see that we're concerned they'll rethink it all.

Sounds like OTW turned this tournament over to a publicity firm to run the tournament. Trying to make it the best that they could. someone just didn't realize the impact that it was going to have.

I don't believe that OTW is any less concerned about BASS than anyone on this site. No BASS not much OTW.

My hunch is there is going to be a board room meeting very shortly to revise the tournament to make it much better (for the bass).

We need to express our concerns but in a constructive way and directly to OTW. They have tooooooo much to loose.

If the rules aren't modified, we'll just sick CLAMMER on them!

Just athought,how does one fish every 10 days sound?Entrants would have reason to be selective in what they keep.Sure would hate to weigh in a 30# fish and 5 days later land a45# with no chance for even a pin.Whoever thinks this is too many fish should join PETA!!IPAIPAIPAIPAIPAIPAIPAIPAIPAIPA

I think you know what I meant by referring back to the 1980's. You know - the time in the 1980's when few could even catch a bass.

That's a pretty cavalier attitude - "worry about any problems later"...

45 inch minimum length.. enter all the aplications into a drawing to win the big prizes, and the winner of the biggist fish gets a trophy and a case of beer.

correction- winner of biggist bass gets a years supply of beer :cheers:

I'd settle for my favorite Winter Warmer, delivered via Kegerator, for six months of the year (seeing its only made for three :wavey: )

Folks - this is good discussion, let's keep the discussion good. Megabyte - good points...

That is not a fishing contest, sounds like a lottery. The largest fish should be tied to the awards somehow..

How about, only count fish over 50#. That will cut the numbers down. A 20 or 30#er is no trophy fish. Biggest fish wins... big prize and trophy in each div and must submit to a polygraph. Fail the polygraph and you get nothing except shame from your fellow fishermen as your name will be plastered in OTW as a cheater. Have a surf, kayak and power boat div. No 50's caught...nobody wins the big prizes and the prizes roll over (in value) to next season...so next year they give away a 29' regulator loaded instead of a boat too small to use in most of the NE waters.

After thinking about it perhaps instead of a weight limit, it should be length...45 or 50 inches. this way, you don't have to weigh the fish and you can release them alive...but you still have to do a polygraph and risk social humilation from your peers if you cheat.

my idea does sound like a lottery, but it would cut down on cheating. I do like your polygraph idea though.. very very smart idea.

There can be a 800 telephone number, for example
(1-800-KILL-FISH ) :call: that you call to find the latest statistics for the month.
This will be a recorded message that gives the largest fish (lbs., girth and length). If the fish that you catch exceeds this amount then it will be the largest. The certified weight station will have access to this 800 number to record a message with the next largest fish.
If you don't have a scale then the girth and weight will give you a ball park weight to determine if you should release or bring to the weight station.

I believe that this may be the better alternative .

_________________________________________
I subscribe to OTW and just recently updated for a new year plus a new hat, I hope I can wear it in pride.
____________________________________________

There is a omen in all of this which is the "harpoon" was the weapon the was used that made the whales nearly extinct. Now it is "Harpoon Brewery"

I am in it. Already signed up. Will I be registering 34 inch fish? No,I would be embarrased to haul in a fish to be weighed as small as that. Has Stripers Forvever got you all in a mind control cult? Commercial guys must love this debate. Bigfish, call me, you can fish with me anytime.

Expect the phone to ring Steve! :)

If course your in, you wound not bite the hand that feeds you, would you ?
I still like your articles.

I find it hard to believe that they would turn it all over to a publicity firm, and not do their homework.

Somewhere there are lots of villages searching for their idiots.I'm not sure how many 50's are confirmed every year but trust me,the number is extremely limited.The trophy is the problem here,talk of a S-B team and dominiation:whackin: ,come on now it's a web sight not a fishing club, until some individuals thought they could get an edge on the prize as a club.A 35 # fish that is shore caught is worth bragging about,a forty+ will get you in on monthly action.We can make this thing work.I don't fish alot but my catches over 30# last year from shore were single digits.Take away the fall and that number goes down signifigantly.A reasonable format will provide the groundwork for a great contest.:ss:

You are assuming that I was somehow "forced" into this? Are you that Naive? I joined cause I wanted to. I know the real odds. Saltheart and the rest must have an inside track. Your statement is an insult. You don't know me and your idiotic post proves it.

I must say....many were all Gung Ho until someone actually read the rules!:smash: You can fish this contest many different ways.....perhaps the rules read poorly but if you all fish this contest with the same good fishing habits you all claim to have....it should work out for all. I belong to MSBA and our club preaches catch and release. I know they would not like the membership out there weighing 2 34 inch fish a week just to balloon the points total......that truely would be shameful and what club could be proud of so much waste? As stated before.....fish within yourself, practice all that has been taught to us through the years by many. I do not like the accrued points portion of the contest, but that does not mean I am not going to participate. I am going to fish this season as a registered participant and maybe that one nice fish will come....and if it does, depending on what the leading fish is at that particular time (I will be keeping tabs so I know I do not kill a fish for no good reason) I may weigh in that special fish and see if I can do that wonderful fish proud. I would probably keep that fish anyway regardless of the contest so why not add a nice pin to the accomplishment of landing a good fish.....of course I am talking about that 40 plus pounder that I have not caught yet. It has been a goal of mine for awhile and if it comes, I have a right to keep it and do with it as I see fit! If however it will not put me in the lead at that time....I will have a decision to make.....to keep it for myself or take a few photos, weigh it on my Berkley and release it to fight another day! This is how it can and should be done!

Also Redsoxticket....don't knock the man for doing what he feels is right.....especially if you do not know the man. You will do what you think is right and that can't be a bad thing.:)

What if the club tournament was not based on total lbs, but based upon the number of pin fish, but add one further restriction that each person can only weigh in 1 fish in each pin slot, ie 1 @30#, 1 @40#, 1 @50# etc...

For most of us that would probably mean we'd only weigh 1 fish, 2 if we're really lucky. An angler who could nail one in each of the slots would be your angler of the year.

*** let's move this back to discussion on the issue, not at a personal level ***

What happened to the intelligent dialogue?:read: