Ride 'em cowboy..:nopain:

Nebe - that comment is worthless without pictures .. .

I had sent off an email to Mass fish and wildlife. They replied that the bait fish was illegal for "use as a freshwater baitfish". They then stated that I should check with the Division of marine fisheries about importing and sale for saltwater baitfish. I am still waiting for a reply.

I too contacted MA DFW, and they said that the only restrictions they could find were specifically as a FRESHWATER BAIT. The gentleman I spoke with said he could not find any regulation which prohibited possession or use in saltwater. It is legal to possess goldfish in the state of MA, so simple possesion will not get you into any trouble, that much is certain. We are waiting to get written documentation describing any legalities for saltwater use.

Excerpt below from 2004, not from Rhody.

"The Indiana Post-Tribune is reporting that the state's Spectacle Lake is infested with, of all things - goldfish (Cyprinus auratus)...This is actually the second time in fifteen years that Spectacle Lake has been overrun with goldfish,...Goldfish can destroy bass nests when they kick up bottom sediments. When they reach critical population levels, they can also drop the dissolved oxygen content of the water to a point that is tolerable to them, but deadly to bass..."

The problem is not isolated to Indiana and not limited to goldfish. It is also well documented. The impact can't be measured by how many goldfish are stealing your bait... although it might impact the #'s of other fish you catch.

The lake on which my inlaws have a cottage in CT has many huge goldfish. How many? Who knows? Their impact on the established populations in the lake? Not been studied ( at least not published...), but take a swim and you will see em.

Hopefully Capt Dom is correct. However, I wonder how long they have been used in the south and who has evaluated the population of salties and impacts of such pop. on ecology of the bodies of freshwater. How can it be said that there has been no impact? I could go on about this all day, but I'll stop. It just seems like there is a potentially large and ultimately unnecessary risk.

Just my $0.02...

"There is no way we can go back to the way it was before man meddled, but we can certainly use knowledge, science, and responsibility to stregthen certain habitats by introducing forage species and predator species that will flourish without dramatically altering or harming in any way that particular ecosystem."

Can you honestly say that EXTENSIVE knowledge has been gained over the last 6-7 years that these fish have been 'developed' to come to a solid, definitive answer that these fish won't displace an ecosystem? Even though man may have altered what was native prior to us messing with it does not make it ok to do so presently. Why not preserve what we have and prevent any further impacts by not messing with our ecosystem at all? We already know the issues that have come up, why even entertain this. Preserve is the key, not introducing other species to manipulate an ecosystem that we feel is 'flourishing' with our idea of good species. I think people should start re-thinking and putting their efforts into re-habilitating rivers, ponds, whatever to promote what thrives there naturally. Maybe what is there wasn't native 1000 years ago, but it certainly isn't going to do us any good by changing what is here now any more.


"We can certainly use knowledge, science, and responsibility to stregthen certain habitats by introducing forage species and predator species that will flourish without dramatically altering or harming in any way that particular ecosystem."

You could achieve this easily...go fishing in your own aquarium.

"This fish has been used in many states with freshwater bodies for some time now, and it has only improved the fishing. Recreational fishing is a 60 billion $$ plus economy with well over 40 million participants. These fish will take great pressure off a strained baitfish population, a good thing as pogies, eels, and herring are in serious trouble."

I find it ironic that your statement of how these fish have improved fishing is supported by economic $$$ numbers. This is why we are where we are today. Man will use/abuse any resource available on this earth to make a $ and can justify it because of the $$$ to be had in doing so. Stop thinking in terms of money and start thinking in terms of natural ecosystems. Yes they have been manipulated by us. No they won't be any better if we keep messing with them. ANY non-native fish introduced into an ecosystem WILL displace that ecosystem. There is no way around it. Those fish have to eat and take up space. They will have an impact and will effect other organisms within that system, one way or the other.

Seems to me like there is $$$ behind this motive. I'm not buying it...I'll second the vote for plugs.

OMG....All this over a goldfish.Use the damn things in Saltwater and dont worry about it...To much time thinking and not enough time fishing.....Of all things people are "concerned" over using a golfish as bait..JUST FISH.....................

Parker, you are obviously dedicated to conservation and preservation, for that I commend you. However, you are assuming that just because these fish are now available to the public that they will be purposefully introduced to a body of fresh water, or if so, will dramatically effect resident populations therein. The same threat has existed since the very first non native fish became available to the public in petshops and baitshops countrywide and abroad as many exotics have been available for a long time; so yes, the inherent threat exists with this, and many, many other species. However, what would these fish mess up in an isolated case where they thrived, the anglers ability to catch other "gamefish", which may be non native species themselves?

I'm not sure what is ironic about my mentioning of the recreational fishing industry and the amount of anglers/money involved. Money makes the world go round, and is an underlying issue with almost any topic concievable today. I mentioned it because an economic gain in todays world is in my opinion a good thing, plain and simple, especially if it also takes pressure off a "natural" species stock that has serious problems in todays world..

As far as fishing in a body of water that has been manipulated by man, there are not many ponds or lakes available to the public that don't have an introduced specie in it. Largemouth and smallmouth bass have been introduced worldwide, and have even inter bred with other species in those bodies of water, yet most would view that as a positive. I don't need to fish in my own aquarium to achieve this, just go to my local pond or stream and catch one of the many available stocked, or introduced fish. I brought up man meddling because it is a fact that I, nor anyone else, can now change. However, I do find it interesting that a recreational angler such as yourself who now benefits from man meddling, i.e. striped bass recovery, trout hatcheries, largemouth bass, smallmouth bass, could have such a problem with it. I am not saying that a problem couldn't arise, but in my mind is miniscule in comparison with the positives that come with the very small negative attached to the Black Salty.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I respect yours. However, the fact remains that this fish will be used in RI, and hopefully responsibly by all those purchasing them. I would never want to see a species destroy or irrevocably change any of our bodies of water, yet I see only benefits from these baits, not problems, whether my stance is founded in economic or personal reasons is a mute issue.

In salt water, I don't see an issue. These fish WILL die in a few hours (Hopefully sooner:) )

In fresh water I might be able to see how they MIGHT cause a problem. That's MIGHT, MAYBE, etc...

But for the salt, IF they take pressure off of native bait I say :claps: :claps: :claps:

bravo parker650! It is amazing to me how some can be so ignorant and claim its just a fish. Apparently they have no idea the ramifications that non native species can have on ecosystems.. Fish it in the slat and ban it in fresh, easy enuf!

#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, how would you feel if you found out that black salties only preyed upon eels when they were in freshwater- further depleting the american eel stocks?

Like others have sai, most nonnative species get introduced by people who buy a fish from the pet store, not realizing it will eat every other fish in the tank, or that it will grow to enormous proportions. They then release them into a pond, cause god forbidyou should toss it downthe toilet or into the garden.
It's very simple.

Angler, "I'd like some Black salties please."

Bait Proprieter, "Going for some monster stripers eh?"

Angler, "Well I was planning on using them in goldfish pond for some lunker largemouth."

Bait Proprieter, " Sorry I can only sell these for use as saltwater baitfish, they are illegal for freshwater, may I suggest these monster shinersfor your type of fishing."


The purchaser has been warned.

Your reaching, give me a break.Goldfish eating eels now.......:hs: :hs:

ok, lets say they feed on the same things the eels do, but multiply rapidly and eat all the feed..........

I did a little research...here is a Black Salty after 3 months in a tidal river.

:hidin:

-spence

Lets say you should be on someones couch.You have issues that are beyond me.......seek help........I dont think that deep, and to be honest There are more important things to worry about..Like how big a livewell I need:jump:

:hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

Depends on your definition of a lab.A laboratory is a controlled environment and the aquaculture ponds of Anderson that these fish were developed in certainly meet that criteria.They WERE developed in a lab.Also selective breeding IS genetic manipution.

Doesn't matter that they die in slatwater there will always be some moron who'll want his own private stash and will throw some in the local pond/lake.Introducing non-native species in a closed freshwater environment is risky.

But again as I said in my original post so far there have been no problems where these baitfish have been used.I'm neither for or against there use,I'm just saying caution is needed.


Btw what's up with quote function?That don't look right.

Bunker
Scup
cunner
sea bass
shad
mummi
eel
sea robin
snapper

You missed a "/" on the last quote box...

#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&..I really think choggie was funnin:scream:

#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, my issues are with ignorant people who have no reguard for the enviroment. Anybody who does not take into consideration his actions and how they will affect there surroundings is a simpleton. Someone who would do something that is potentially hazardous to an ecosystem without reguard to the long term effect is an ass. I guess a simple mind will think " how big a livewell I will need" where as the rest of the world may ask " what will my happen if this fish is introduced into an ecosystem and wreaks havoc upon it."
My example of the black salty competing with the american eel was just that, an example of what could happen. A more realistic scenario would be to say these fish become a predator of striped bass eggs in a spawning ground like the susquehanna flats. Without thinking before hand you set yourself up for certain failure.
As for being on someones couch..its ignoramuses like you that may land me there some day. Simple minds like yours drive me insane. The inane drivel reminds me of when I worked with the special olympics. But I guess if we didn't have people who think like you, we wouldn't have anyone to dig ditches.

Okay, if that qualifies for the definition of a lab, so be it. In my minds eye, I picture a lab as a place with test tubes, white lab coats, microscopes, bunson burners, etc., but everyone has their opinions, and I'm not saying yours is incorrect. However, the genes of these fish are not manipulated in any way, but bred to be the heartiest and healthiest they can. Any breeder seeks out the qualities best desired in a certain species, much as horse breeders, dog breeders, etc, would, so I must disagree with your assessment that they are genetically altered. Semantics would be the case here, as genetic manipulation is a very bad way to describe the simple selective breeding to make a species strong, in my opinion. I am agreeing with you wholeheartedly on the need for care with any introduced species to a closed environment, and in no way do I condone or encourage some yahoo to start throwing them enmasse into fresh water, period. I guess in all walks of life there will be differing opinions, I'll have to be satisfied with those that will embrace these fish and use them successfully and responsibly, and hopefully none of the concerns that have been raised here will ever come to pass with Black Saltys or any other fish.

I hope everyone has a good start to the season, I know that the squid run has started, the mackeral are showing, and keepers to 15 pounds have been landed in the bay. Won't be long till we are all occupied with tight lines and fat fish, and can leave the hypothetical debates till winter:rolleyes: ....

Anxiously awaiting #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&s rebuttal.:huh:

Ok so a guy walks into a tackle shop and says "I would like a dozen Black Salties" Clerk says "Sure" Then the guy hesitates, puts his hand to his head, takes a big puff on his pipe, furls his eye brows and says.."Wait a minute there young fella", "before you load one goldfish into that bucket , I have some deep rooted concerns that just became apparent to me in an epifany"

Clerk looks at his comrades and shakes his head "uh-oh".........

Yes sir! the clerk says! "I am afraid to use those goldfish" " In the two seconds I have been here my mind has begun racing with the thought of the ecosystem degrading into the abyss if I dare to hook one of those things, there could be grave imminant danger to the fragile ecosystem,! "because I am an adult, but I have a tendancy to dump untold numbers of baitfish into freshwater areas after I am done fishing" "I cant help myself, Introducing goldfish like baitfishes to these places is an urge I cannot resist" "Therefore I simply cannot purchase these in good faith"........."I lay awake at night with mishevious thoughts and visions of marouding goldfish eating untold numbers of bass eggs on the flats someplace"

Accoring to you the above is how a "normal person thinks" most will not be stupid enough to toss them into fresh water



You know I never dug a ditch, plenty of fence post holes but never a ditch.Simple minds? Please never underestimate the power of the handicap!

I am indeed a savant! A "bass-savant" I have been gifted with the ability to catch large numbers of huge linesides:confused: :confused: My narrow shallow mind tells me Black Salties will catch untold numbers of bass, I can't think beyond that, My livewell is to small, somebody please help me, I need a new livewell, please can you help me out.....I just want to catch fish.


The simple one here is you.........Where in any of my posts did I say "I dont care about the enviroment? I just think a shrink can help you with your goldfish problem....


By the way, people who dig ditches have more respect from me than people who wear a suit and tie and steal money from people..Like big oil.........I know a few guys who put there kids though higher education from digging holes...Hard work. There the real people!You dont measure a man by what he does for a living, you have just offended ditch diggers near and wide:shocked: :shocked:


Go live line a Choggie...................:jump:

Yup....
heard the macks were bruisers.... headed out tonight :hidin:

#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, you are fooling yourself if you think your enviromentally minded when you fish. You have stated yourself on this forum that if eels were added to the endangered species act, you would still use them and that you are certian there will be a black market for them..

If you were truely an enviro-mental friendly fisherman, you wouldnt use eels at all, but instead you are truely concerned with one thing..I'll let you figure that one out for yourself.

If you care to argue this, answer one question for me..
How many bass and eels did you kill last season??

Its your kind of mentallity that broght on the bass moratorium :hs:

I could go on, but i think you get my point.

you missed one.........BLAAAACK SAAAAAAAAAAAALTTTTYYYYYYYY!!

OK, so here we go with the name calling, personal disparagements and general crap slinging and it's only March 3rd.
I'm not one of the mods on the Board but I get tired of this stuff real quick. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. NOW PLAY NICE!!!:liquify:

I think everything that needs to be said here has been said. This is just a pissing contest now. I'm locking it down.