Duke...definitely was not insulting your Grand-Dad......he came the right way and I applaud him for, like you said, his bravery to make such a move.:claps:

Yeah i just re-read your post. I see what your saying. I think we're accually on the same page in many ways.

Especially the Spanish National Anthem. Thats just lame, they won't get any bonus points from Americans on that one. If anything it'll hurt thier cause more.

I love it, your reference for feesability are two military actions where the desired outcome ended up killing tens of thousands of innocent people :uhuh:

And according to the DOJ there are only about 2.1 million inmates, not quite the numbers necessary for your plan. Given you probably don't want the harder criminals out in the fields, the pool is quite a bit smaller than that.

Besides, what would happen if crime rates fell! Would we have to enact tougher laws to ensure the prison population was able to supply the needed people-power to keep the produce flowing :)

-spence

This issue is very easy.

No one is against LEGAL immigration. That is what this country is about.

It is the immigrants who are here ILLEGALLY who want to side step the process that is the problem.

If I were an immigrant going through the process legally I'd be pissed.

Heard an immigrant on the radio this morning going thru the process legally was asked if he'd go to war for the country. He said yes but he wasn't a citizen. I THINK WHAT ALLOT OF PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND IS YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE A CITIZEN TO BE IN THE ARMY, NAVY, AIR FORCE, MARINES OR COAST GAURD. but you do have to be a legal. That is a great loophole to becoming a citizen is join the military for a number of years, you'll get your citizenship through them.

People died because they were fighting invaders of their country, we will not be fighting on a battle field.

even if we don;t have the 11 million to directly replace the illegalls, atleast we have a starting point to deal with a two front problem. gettting rid of illegals, and helping ease the strain Prisioners put on us. And by the time the crime rate falls, all those illegals should be here legally :D And don't forget, out of those 11 millin illegas, how many are working adn how many are thier childeren? It is safe to say that is we booted 11 million illegals, there will not be 11 million jobs to fill, and if there is, then hey, looks like we will ave a reason to get them here quicker legally, so in the end everyone wins.

Also, atleast I am trying to come up with a solution, not just lying down and giving up. Ths country was built on the notion that anything is possible if you work hard enough.

A son of a legal immigrant
 

Spence,

Where are you getting your numbers for the monies that illegals put into US? All kidding/bitching aside, I truly would like to read this.

One irrefutable fact is that all border states are having huge financial problems due in large part (not 100%) in the drain illegal immigrants put on the local economy. Here is some information from a non-partisan (have not vetted them on this count) group:

QUOTE
The small picture, too, is a concern, said Mark Krikorian, executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies. Although he concedes that definite benefits for some specific sectors of the economy come from the illegal workforce, the overall costs to American citizens outweighs the benefits of illegal immigration.

"There's no question that illegal immigration, that unskilled immigration of all kinds, is a losing proposition," Krikorian said.

Krikorian's group just released a study this week that says illegal immigration is most harming the unskilled sector of the labor force. Krikorian said it shows current U.S. immigration policy isn't looking out for its own citizens.

A study of Census Bureau data revealed that while U.S. unemployment is under 5 percent, unemployment among high school dropouts is 14 percent and among those with only a high school education is about 7 percent, he said.

Krikorian said that shows that despite the claims otherwise, for non-immigrants "there isn't full employment in the low-skilled labor market."

Krikorian said that until immigration policy changes, the problem boils down to a simple point — low-wage citizen workers are being crowded out of low-pay jobs by illegal immigrants.
END QUOTE

tim

The American Indians
 

We are all immigrants.....:rollem:

It's a number I've seen used several times...although I'm sure it's a pro-immigration source...I've also read that the Social Security Administration alone attributes about 7 Billion in taxes to illegal or undocumented people.

I'd completely agree that some communities shoulder much more of the burden than others...

Also, I'm not arguing that illegal immigration is a good thing or that there's parity between give and take...

Rather, that there is a tremendous input into our economy by illegal workers, and they they aren't going anywhere soon. Any feesable long-term solution must take these factors into account.

-spence

Yeah unfortunatly anything short of extremly drastic measures will not help at all. We have let it get too far out of hand.

Drastic measures will just upset the apple cart...there's an economic interest here as well.

The current situation has "evolved" into something quite gray. We need to segment the problems and attack them individually.

For instance, an open border and business desiring the cheap labor are certainly related...but they don't necessarily have the same solution.

-spence

This guy seems to be taking matters in his own hands
http://www.filecabi.net/video/mexicans.html

You and I are LEGAL, our familys came to this country by following the rules and doing it through the legal proccess. Can't say the same thing about the mexicans hopping the fences now can we? This is NOT about LEGAL imigrants!! this is about ILLEGAL imigrants who dont follow the law of the US. Why is this so hard for people to understand??? :hs: Its so simple yet folks make it so freakin complicated. Or they are PC people who are afraid they might offend someone. I think that is the most likely scenerio.

I heard Rush Limbaugh wants to round up all the illegal aliens, and make gasoline additives out of them. :bl:

Skippy, do you speed?

-spence

Quoted for absolute truth. All my ancestors were imigrants as well, my grandparents were not born here, but they did it the right way, and that is all we are asking, do it right so you can fit properly into our structured system

:lurk: :lurk: :lurk: :lurk:

The times i have i've gotten pulled over and ticketed, as i should've becuase i broke the law. But in your world you give the Illegals a pass and dont care if they break law, no punishment no nothing. if you break the law ,no matter how severe or minor, we have penalties for the law breaking. It keeps order in the country. But i guess for some reason ILLEGALS get a free pass on this law right? Please tell me why its ok for them to break and ignore OUR laws and we should reward thier law breaking actions? becuase this is what we are doing, rewarding criminal behavior.

To bad some people fail to understand this simple logic. Do it the right way and America welcomes them with open arms. Do it illiegally and we have no respect for you, becuase they have no respect for America by breaking our laws and cutting in front of the line of people who are going through the LEGAL proccess to come to America.

Well, illegal immigration is considered a "civil" offense...sort of like speeding...

Just wanted to lump you all in the same bucket :cputin: :btu:

-spence

I often wonder how many of our ancestors DID get in here legally? I dont know the answer to that, and I'm calling anyone here out, I just take it for face value that my relatives got here legally, but who knows? The french canadian side of my family dates back to the 1700's? were they legal or did they just show up?

Does everyone KNOW for FACT that their ancestors got here on the up and up?

No..... we just slaughtered and infected with diseases the people who lived here for thousands and thousands of years before WE DISCOVERED AMERICA.

Being a member of the Cherokee Tribe I can relate to that remark :)

-spence

I didn't read all of the thread, but one part I did read hit a nerve with me. Someone stated that illegals do not suck the system dry and contribute over 80 billion dollars to our system. Let me enlighten the healthcare aspect of this. I work in a huge hospital, the majority of trauma patients due to a fall from a rooftop, ladder, etc. are day laborers. These people incur huge medical bills, staggering to say the least. I now work in the outpatient orthopedic facility for the same hospital, and the amount of patients that are seen here is insane, most of them follow-up to those traumatic falls mentioned. Who foots the bill for these people? You and me, our medical insurance. This is one hospital of the thousands around the country where I am sure the same occurs on a daily basis. Another observation is the "free clinic" that is offered to those without insurance a few times per month where I work. Guess what the majority of the patients are?
you guessed it. Not a word of english, not a thank you, not a smile.
The vast majority of these people want everything without contributing anything.
These patients make things very difficult for all involved. The MD getting called in to screw this guys leg together. The support staff that needs to be called in to help the MD. The hospital workers that need to take extra time to care for these people due to the language barrier. The list goes on and on. I am not saying that these people should not be cared for, I am a compassionate human being, and want no one to suffer, but the big picture is the fact that they are here, and get sick and hurt, and we care for them in these situations, losing time and money in the process. If they weren't here, it wouldn't be a problem.

I don't think anybody has stated either...

-spence

You did Spence.:uhuh:

And after re-reading that post it also states that we are ignoring reality?

as a red blooded mashpee wampanog injin. ????....all of you go back where you came from ...your all a bunch of imigrants....ug....

True, But the Nature of Mankind was always "Devide and Conquer". Which pretty much goes back to the cave people days.:usd:

I am right where I came from.:bl:

No I didn't...

I've affirmed that illegals do suck on the system, and it's while it's worse in some areas than others... it's certianly not s#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&g "the system dry".

The stat I threw out was 50, not 80. And even that figure is relative...the poing being that there is a tremendous contribution that's not being considered in your reasoning...

Your facts are not so straight :lasso:

-spence

Your first post on page 3 says it quite plainly....or maybe I just can't read? 50...80...relative to what???....Don't throw numbers around when you don't have them nailed down....if you don't have the facts then don't post the info!:jump1:

You throw out "ballpark" numbers and our facts are not straight???? Come on Spence.....wish you had the ability to correst your comments right about now?

No Worries Skittah.... redman sold the whiteman Manhattan for 26 bucks and some beads, and been getting shafted for years, yes... but...... gonna win the whole thing back a thousand fold at the casinos... Ka-Ching .... stiffy... you say that till ya get yer casino... then it'll be come on down suckah :D...

all my relatives came thru Eliis Island, early 1900's... but I get grouped into the blame for Indians troubles and Slaves troubles.. nice deal.. my ancestors was endutured servants all over Europe.. My Grandfather had to do his tour of duty for the army, plus all of his father's boss's kids time.. then work off his dad's debt to the landowner.. then he hightailed it for USA, figgered it had to be better, never looked back...

jnski.. good points... and health care ins. is going up quicker than gasoline... cause of the insured, picking up the tab for the uninsured...

I don't think you can read...you're the one who said

Which is simply absurd...

Regarding tax contributions. I freely admit my statement was based on potentially pro-immigration comments I heard, and as such I don't know how it was computed...

But that doesn't diminish its relative merrit, as I not arguing there's parity...Rather that illegal workers do make a substantial tax contribution. There's no need for a correction, and I've freely added the proper context.

I have read that it's estimated illegals pay up to 7 Billion in Social Security taxes alone yearly, and this doesn't factor in Medicare, state, sales or property taxes which would add considerably. Much of this they see no benefit from.

Nor does it calculate the benefit you receive from potentially low wage workers helping to deliver services and products at a lower cost to you because of a lower standard of living or other basic care being subsidized by other people...

You're still dodging the issue, illegals do contribute and that has to be factored into the solution.

-spence

I've been following this thread with mild curiosity all day, and wow, some interesting perspectives out there. I love watching it unfold when someone justifys and bashes an entire country over what is undeniably the actions of a few. I've done some serious hospital time with one of my kids over the past two years, and I gotta tell ya, being one of the few caucasion families in a packed waiting room, I never once considered the fact that I was the only paying customer there. Unless you're on line behind them, how do you tell which ones are paying and which can't? Do they look different? Hey, do you think "they" can tell which white folks are bilking the system and which are paying? Who would have thought?! I almost feel bad now, that when "those people" were shuffling their papers back and forth and filling out forms with the registrar while trying to calm some absolutely adorable, but very scared and very sick child, that I didn't stand up and shout, "Hey, Javier, 'Give me your tired, your poor, your sick, your huddled masses' doesn't mean you guys who try to sneak in the back door undetected, so go back to the pueblo." Yea right. But getting back to my first point, it seems like more than a few in this thread have no use for either Brazil or Mexico, in their entirety, mind you, and I just hope the moderators here are not so influenced by that line of thinking that they discourage S-B associates from celebrating Cinco de Mayo this Friday.

Lest get everyone from S-B and SOL and sneak onto Mexico next Friday. Stay awhile and get a tan then head for Brazil :jester:


Soon the boards will be bare of posts with the bigger fish coming home and passing through :cheers:

gas is cheaper in brazil, they are self-sufficient when it comes to oil, produce 100% of what they use :P plus the beaches and fishing are better! lets move there

OH! and you wont even need to go in illegally, it's easy to get a visa

Ward... coming june... golly geez beav....



Spence, good dialog :)

Hey jimbo, I am 80% Portuguese, which is basicly Brazilian. No one in this thread has some much as hinted racisim, nor has anyone said, or even insinuated that they hate anyone.

The healthcare statments that others made were based on statistics, not sitiing in the loby and making a judgment call because there is a lot of mexicans there. And although we are not bashing a whole country, the Mexican government is largey to blame, they actually put out a damn flyer explaining the best way to get here illegally!

How come Canadiens are not running for the border? Mexico is run by crooked morons. How is it possible to have a third world country in our back yard when NAFTA exists?

The biggest downfall of allowing illegal imigration, is that instead of haveing to stay, and maybe start a revolution against thier crooked govenment, they simply run away. The problem, is that the Mexican revoloutionary army is in the USA cutting our grass. If we kick them all out, and build a wall so they can't run anymore, they will not put up with the government, especially seeing they already had a taste of freedom.

portuguese is as much brazillian as british is american :jump:

Hahah, there are more portuguese in brazil then in Portugal haha My family tree has so many of both that it's really hard to tell where everyone started out. It is not like over here, where you ask someone who's faminly has been here for 300 years what they are, and they say English ahaha, yeah right. And it strikes me funny how some say your not american unless your indian, why it this? Is this because we know exactly were we came from and when we got here? In that case, indians are not Americans, they are canadiens. I watched a show on discovery that claims indians migrated here from the far north. At what point do we call ourselves what we are? If you live here and pay your taxes, your an American, if you go to your so called "mother country", they will call you American as well, and probably a few other names hahah.

And if anyone wants to try to take thier country back, let them. How many indians today can live the way they did before it ws taken over? I worked with a black guy who went back to Africa to see where he came from, he said he would never go back, why would he? We are all americans, unless ofcourse you're here illegally, then your a criminal.

good thing
 

friday is get drunk day....

a little tequila ,

some lemons, and a couple of six packs of corona... :btu: