Jeeze Tin, you don't have to go sticking words in my mouth :rolleyes:

Never said it didn't matter.

What I did say was that the Administration built Zarqawi up so they could rip him down.

This happened even before the war as they falsely cited his presence in Iraq as proof that Saddam had links to al Qaida.

This happened during the insurgency as the military and Administration intentionally and repeatedly overstated his impact to keep the media focused on terrorisim and not sectarian violence.

This doesn't mean he wasn't a very nasty bastard or that his death doesn't matter...but things need to be put into perspective.

-spence

general casey to pilot
 

go ahead general Casey....

engage target.... give him 1000 pounds of allah perspective....:eek::shocked:

aye sir...approaching target.... bombs sent sir...

pilot: returning to base....

well done Pilot....

thankyou sir. :lm:

perfect
 

i like your play on that word Macojoe....

HSSSSSS tory you spelled it right ! :wavey:

:rollem:

Beheading American civilians is small involvement in violence? And like it or not when a field operative in a leadership position is eliminated the game changes. What is it with Liberals trying to down play every signifigant American success in Iraq?

What Zarqawi did do intentionally had a big impact media wise (hell he pissed off nearly as many Muslims as he did Americans) but in relative terms the influence of foreign fighters wasn't the prime source of instability problems, nor is it's elimination the solution. It will help, but how much remains to be seen...

And this isn't about being negative to American success...my comments are to put the event into perspective as the Administration has distorted his role.

Did you know that in 2004 NBC reported the Pentagon requested permission 3 times to take Zarqawi out (before the Iraq war) in 2002. They were concerned he would raise some hell in Europe and given the post 9/11 mindset wanted to eliminate the problem.

The requests were denied as the Administration didn't want to upset their case for war with Saddam. Much better to make wild accusations Zarqawi and Saddam were drinking tea together on cool evenings after evening prayers :rolleyes:

He was an evil man and our special ops have spent 2 freaking years tracking him down...but his role in this chapter of the "war on terror" should be looked at in context. The real world is a lot more nuanced than many would like to believe.

-spence

Good news in Iraq and the war on terror is bad news for Liberals. They are basing thier entire 2006 election campaign on negative news. Your telling me Howard Dean didnt burst out with a big "oh %$%$%$%$" when he heard Zarqawi was dead!? Its sad, but we know how they operate. Heck look at Likwid, he cant bring himself to praise our troops for taking out Zarqawi, he'd rather bash Bush and be all negative. And this is why the Libs won't be taking over congress in 06They have NO ideas or plans, thier success in 06 is based on bad news coming from Iraq. How pathetic is that?? :yak4:

Skippy, quit listenting to talk radio :lasso:

-spence

Spence and likwid,
While i respect your right to your opinions, which is one of the beauties of our system of democracy, I am dismayed with your focus upon the political viewpoint. You want a dose of reality? you can come fish a day or night with some personal friends of mine who have been on the ground 'in theater', some who are members of the one four five. I promise they'll respect your right to a point of view, but they'll tell it like it is. We (include me) have no idea what is real over there. I would be willing to bet that you would be rethinking some of your posts after meeting them.....
My support is 100% behind those who are on the ground, at risk, for you and me. I will not participate online in a media nor political discussion.

Sorry, talk radio is a drug to me :tooth:

I think you're reading too much into my posts without knowing anything about me :huh:

Can't speak for Likwid, don't know him.

Putting the Zarqawi death in context isn't in any way diminishing the efforts of our troops. That's just the same bull%$%$%$%$ logic that says any critisim of the President is against the troops and their mission.

I know all I can know, and I form my opinions on that base. I'm not some liberal crackpot, hell, I'm even making my stepson read Nathan Fick's book so he can understand what it means to be a Marine.

My support and utter respect for our troops is precisely the reason I get so ticked when they are seemingly shown such contempt by the civilian leadership who order them into combat in a reckless manner.

-spence

Spence
What CIVILIAN Leadership are you referring to??? Obviously you are not referring to the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces. So who exactly are you referring to ?
I am VERY confused. S-plain it to me !

Policy Makers.

-spence

"I'm not prepared to lay out a detailed policy or strategy," "It's not something you can expect in a situation that is moving this fast and has the level of detail you're looking for."

Riddle me this , Who said these words?
Hint, this guy would have been a TOP POLICYMAKER if KERRY won the election.
Point is, what alternative plans are the Dems offering this year in 2006 ?

Retreat! Thats thier plan. And hope to win the 06 elections off negative news coming from Iraq.

Sad but true

Let me get this straight...so the idea that Richard Holbrooke (whom I admire) wasn't willing or able to lay out a magic "fix Iraq" plan nearly 3 years after the invasion in an interview is proof that we would have been doomed had Kerry been elected?

That's just silly.

The real issue isn't even Dem vs Repub. It's to flush the current neocon policy wonks out of office.

Any decent leader could do what it takes to regain our moral high ground and make objective decisions giving the operational folks a chance to make more meaningful contributions on the ground that have some staying power.

-spence

The Hate Bush Plan

We need an emoticon that reads "it's the policy stupid".

-spence

I thought thats what the button on your sweater vest said.

Come on Tin, at least bring your A game :wavey:

-spence

You mean the "little beady eyed pointed nose miget prick" policy, stupid? Nah, no hate for the man there. Unfortunately Spence unlike you not all of your Brethren can get beyond their hate for the man to take the time to understand policy.

SPEAKING of "A" game (you walked right into it)
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,198940,00.html

I think Neil Covuto sums it up pretty well.
Can a Fella just hear "good job" for ONCE?!.
Nanci Pelosi says "well, its about time" that pretty much sums it up for her party.

A FOX News trap :rollem:

Tin, if you want I can pull little snippets here and there to justify nearly anything. I remember seeing numerous Democratic Congresspeople making positive statements the day it was announced.

As for Pelosi...given that it's taken the most elite special forces in the most powerful nation on earth 2 years to find someone who publishes their video on the Internet every few weeks...

IT IS ABOUT TIME :cheers:

-spence

To be fair, I think those hateful words were brought about because of the policy...not the man. But I'll let the author speak for himself.

Sure there is a faction of the progressive left that does despise the person to the point where they can't think straight...in fact my sister is one of them :bo:

But I'd argue there's an even larger segment on the right who are so vested in Bush and Company that they are lying to themselves to avoid judgement on his policy blunders on a daily basis.

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt :jump1:

Ba-dum, bump! I have another show at 11.

-spence

It took how long to catch the unibomber, and that was on OUR turf in MONTANA. the Feds admitted they flew right over his shack many times(even after they knew exactly where it was) and could not see it, and he didnt have his own army hiding him. Its called hiding in PLAIN SIGHT. Its not so easy to find a single person who knows his home turf and does not want to be found.
You really think he posted on chat lines in real time, like we are doing here? PUULEAASE . Anyone can send a video tape to Al Jaseera and remain completely anonymous.


You and I need to drink a beer or 2 one day.
Some of my best friends are also Democrats:wall: , not that there is anything wrong with that. .:buds:

The difference is...every report I've ever read indicates that the locals know exactly where the foreign fighters are in every town.

They don't tell US troops because A) they will get killed and B) they don't like us very much.

Perhaps if we planned a little better for the "hearts and minds" aspect of things instead of letting the country go down the toilet the people would be a little more cooperative!

And to be honest, I've always thought that if we did pull out ala Murtha that the local militas would snuff out the foreign terrorists in about a day. Full on civil war might ensue...but at least it would be clean :)

Dinking some wine right now. Perfect end to an afternoon of shingling.

-spence

killing solves nothing.

Spoken like the good Christian you are Nebe :faga:

Amazing listening to Sean Hannity BLAST Nick Berg's father for his comments about Zarqawi's death...What would Jesus do?

-spence

im not christian.. he lives up near boston

my point is killing this guy only serves to boost our moral. there will be another insect to take his place by next friday probably and he will be eager to proove that he is just a ruthless as the last.



quagmire...

I wouldn't go that far. Zarqawi had a good ability to manipulate the media and the balls to do things that would make even fanatics blush.

It could really go either way...better or worse.

-spence

where is osama?

Who knows, but I'm sure someone here will say it doesn't matter because we haven't been it since 9/11 :chatter

-spence

Talk about a slap in the face to our Miltary. Give them some %$%$%$%$in credit will you. I guess you could have done a better job than our special forces Spence? Its amazing how people turn good news into a negative. I'm really sick of people on the left taking shots at our Military, "gee what took them so damn long" Un feakin real. Give our boys some god damn credit.

So we should have let Zarqawi continue to cut off peoples heads and murder our troops with IED's? You have an issue with Zarqawis death i take it. %$%$%$%$ why even go after Osama then. Lets just leave him alone.

UNREAL what i am reading in this thread

Why the %$%$%$%$ do you care? You dont want us to kill him anyway. Or maybe you'd like to take some cheap shots at our military too for not finding him yet? It aint easy finding one guy in thousands of miles of caves. But you you seem to think is rather simple, go get em for us if its that easy.

You'd probably invite Osama to the White House for tea if you were president.

Oh Skippy, there you go again :rolleyes: :fishslap:

-spence