I have mixed feelings about this development. It will hurt the local bait shops big time and they’re already hurting enough. I think there will be opposition on the bait front – from bait shops and lobstermen. And, like has been said already, pogies make bass to easy to target and catch (which I admit is not always a bad thing). But think about this for a minute – the run of pogies in Narragansett Bay this year was great, and I bet lots of fishermen took more large bass than any time of their life. So you have lots of pogies AND lots of big bass harvested. Is that good? I’m not so sure.
Secondly, it’s one stinking company – and a company that has always shared its catch with sport fishermen. To me this is stabbing Ark bait in the back.

Just a few thoughts to ponder….

DZ

I don't fish the bay. Having said that, from what I read there were plenty of ogies left after Ark bait got done with them. The boat fishermen will still be able to catch pogies for their own bait, but 99.99% of the shore fishermen will be SOL when it comes to getting pogies for bait. The bait shops will also take a hit, from not hving them to sell. I just don't see this as a win-win for everyone.

You must not have fished all that many years then, the presence of bunker make the shore fishing fantastic, in the 80s areas like fort Varnum were red hot due to all the bunker that were around, also you may want to take a closer look at the bay itself, there are plenty of places that have wave action, the bay goes all the way to its mouth at Beavertail light I would call that Surf in every sense of the word. The bay doesnt end at Conimicutt point...Anyway most of the 50lb fish landed in Rhode Island in the 70s and early 80s came from the bay and many of those came from shore fisherman..

This is a stupid argument and not on the right direction....The bottom line is that This bill is a great step forward and will benefit all fisherman.

Thank you. I was a little over caffinated last night and when i read this bill I posted my thoughts a little too quickly. Today i am a little more level headed and hopefully i can articulate my feelings better-

To clarify, I am 100% for the protection of pogies. Theres no argument that a bass who eats alot of them will grow to be fat and healthy. I really think they should be protected down in the chesapeake, but thats adifferent story.
Sure, if in a few years there are ample amounts of pogies distributed everywhere, then thats awesome.

NIB- how was the fishing along the NJ beaches where the pogies had left?? Any bass? Did NJ still have resident fish along jetties that had seen pogies a few days before?

Agian i am for this, i just want peope to know (especially the surfcasters) that having alot of pogies around will make things very intereresting..

I don't see how Ark Bait not spending its usual two weeks in the Bay before heading to greener (or Menhaden Browner) pastures is going to negatively impact local bait suppliers and shops as much as the positive impact of having menhaden feeding bass and having menhaden filtering the bay. Sure, Ark bait is able to supply fresh or near fresh pogies for shops and lobsterman while they're here for a shorter period of time and after that the local places and people get pogies from afar anyway.

I think the benefits to the bay and to the bass far outweigh fresh -v- frozen pogies. Or local supply to local shops.

well said :grins:

I never said they were as good as then and , when I was a kid was about 15 years before you were..I have a good memory...anyway, its better than it has been in a long while, there were more than enough bunker around to fish with and it was awesome fishing, it has not been like this in years, I just hope the trend continues and it looks like the bunker are coming back strong! that ,I am happy about.

Correct, I didn't start until the early 90's. Then I was in NC for 6 years, I've only been back for 6. I didn't think we we're arguing. I agree it will be good for the fishery. My opinion, (and that's all it is) is that the places i currently like to fish will not benefit in the SHORT term. I will adapt if i need to. I am no way opposed to the bill. I would , however, like to see menhaden fishing banned from ALL RI waters, not just the bay.

I am surprised dennis, do you really know how efficient and how many pounds that "one" company takes? Of course they give bait to fisherman, they want them to stay happy and quiet, its a small price for them to pay...I watched them up close many times this year from my boat and they take bunker in devestating numbers...I am all for more Bunker!

Has everyone gone nuts???? I cant beleive some of the posts I am reading?? Look back at all the crying threads of the past complaining of the lack of bait, here you guys have a bill that will do something about it and what do some people do?? They cry that they won't do as well because there is to much bait un-F@#$^&()in real..what f!@#$in Joke...Its hopeless and very weird.......

You guys want a bill that make fishing for bass a "Plug only" sport.....To many paint fumes

You cant have it both ways, you cant say one year that there are no fish because there is no bait and then say the next year that a poor season is due to TO much bait...doesnt work like that.......

Bill;
Just wanted to clarify. I know you knew what it was like.
It is nowhere near what it was. Hopefully the trend does continue.
More pogies = more fat bass!

No problem Hound ! Like I said however it was really good, I have no complaints, I had bunker just about anytime I wanted it.

Have to agree, what a joke complaining about a bunker resurgence, makes me wonder who the heck is really a fisherman.......And your right only in NE....

Bill,
Please don't get me wrong Bill. I know where you're coming from on this.
More large bunker will mean more dead cows - plain and simple.
It's always been my priority to protect large bass. To put a hurting on a commercial guy by hiding behind an environmental smoke screen so that sport fishermen can have all the pogies is wrong. If RISAA really wanted to protect the pogies so they can protect the bay then they should try and ban the taking of pogies by anyone.
Just my opinion.
DZ

I have to agree with what Dennis has said . It's hard to see how this legislation can be interpreted as anything other than a "Fish Grab" by some recreational striper fisherman in the upper bay. If the menhaden is truly "the most important fish in the sea" should not everyone be banned from possessing it?

Bill if you didnt have a boat and you were standing next to steve mckenna who has said that last year was the worst surfcasting he has experienced in 30 years including the moratorium would you be singing the same tune?

Im for this bill, all im doing is playing the devils advocate and bringing to light the negative effects of an abundance of pogies.

EXACTLY!

That makes complete sense.

Did you watch"Fishing the Ocean State" yesterday ? It was about fishing in review in 2006.
Steve M, Thomcat, RISAA member, fly fisherman and others were being interview in a open forum and chating at Quakerlane.
Steve did indicate that fishing was "great" before July 12 and once the pogie boats arrived thereafter it was the "worst" he has seen in 30 years. I don't think Steve fishes from the boat.

Yes I would eben, I fished with steve for 15 years, It was bad last season and I did spend plenty of time in the surf , Steve is a close personal friend of mine(and its funny but I am on the phone with steve right now!) but that doesnt mean I agree with everything he says, I think to many people spent way to much time in one spot and saw things though tunnell vision. As he is telling me now as I relate the post, he said he should have branched North so, take that for what its worth..He says he got stuck in the rut of "this area is so good that it should always be" sometimes that thinking is wrong.But we did do "ok" we came in 4th and 5th for the OTW cup, and we each had several fish from the beach in the 30lb class..so it wasnt all gloom and doom.

In fact he just reminded me, we went to a mid bay Island by boat in june beached it and surf fished the place all night, we HONED The fish so he as I are willing to do different things or whatever it takes.......

And yes, Steve did Boat fish with me and with Jim White, we had a blast.......

redsox ticket- i didnt watch the progrm and out of respect for steve and #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, i wont say too much about where, but Steve's excellent surf fishing was done with the aid of #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&'s boat and going to areas as close to where the pogies were. He being the wise surfcaster quickly adapted.

too funny. I admit that I fished with tunnel vision as well.

Works both ways. More bunker means more big fish.
Your also talking about 1 commercial venture reaping the reward$ at the expense of the entire fishing community. Comm. fishers and recs alike. Also, keep in mind alot of other species benefit from bunker other than SB

Hi Ed :wavey:

I think the shore anglers will benefit from this greatly as well. I think the Bay will benefit greatly - forget about the bass.

Will shore and boat recs snagging pogies amount to one day's haul from Ark? Probably not. It probably would equal how much Ark gives away in "PR" only...

Personally I think it's a good thing for just about everyone...

I don't think local tackle shops will suffer greatly due to the fact that the amount of profit on fresh bait is usually very small. I work at a tackle shop and although it is not in RI we do keep fresh pogies in the shop whenever possible. We would be making maybe around $.50 on each fresh pogie sold. I say maybe because the price of fresh bait is more than just how much you pay for each pogie but also the amount of hours that are spent finding them and picking them up. In the end the tackle shop is not making a killing on fresh pogies at all but rather supplies them simply to satisfy the customer. Also here in Mass we don't have any large commercial pogie fishery that I know of, and most tackle shops that get fresh pogies are getting them from a few local guys that get them with throw nets. Protecting the pogies will bring nothing but good things. I think the fact that people are complaing about more big fish being killed or less big fish in there local spots is absolutely ridiculous. If more Big Fish are being killed doesnt that equate to more big fish period?

"If RISAA really wanted to protect the pogies so they can protect the bay then they should try and ban the taking of pogies by anyone.
Just my opinion."
DZ

Sometimes these things get way out of control. It took years for Steve M. and the RISAA crew to get anyone to even address this situation at all. To read a quote like the one above illustrates how many people are not familiar with how the "system" works. When I was on the RISAA board of directors a few years back I too was rather hotheaded and wanted to take "big bites" like taking on the whole comm. pogy fishing industry.
To try something like this is an excersise in futility. To try to address it in small doses like the Bay for starts is the much more prudent and effective way to go. Naby steps, man, baby step....TC

Wow, I can't believe what I'm reading. Bill is right, Nuts! Infact, I'm going nuts reading this. How can anyone say protecting the Pogies is a bad thing?

OK, too many pogies=too many BIG bass for anglers to kill=No good?!!??

OK, so does this make sense- Less Pogies=Less BIG bass for anglers to kill=Good??!!??

Surfcasting will be horrible if there are too many Pogies??
Are you kidding me?

None of it makes sense to me.

Talk about being hypocritical...These are the same guys who have been complaining right along-on this very site-about the lack of Pogies/Bait.

Kind of a Catch22 if ya ask me. I say save the resource is the way to go.:kewl:

F-18 i am not saying its bad at all. What i am trying to say is that it will make the bass school up in small areas and in most cases it will be not accessable from shore. thats all.

How's that Mako doing? Problem solved..:kewl:

Mako=assesability=problem solved..

Small areas?? the bay isnt that small and, when there were loads of pogies before, salt pond was full of them along with Ctown and quanny and strewn all along the shorelines...In the fall there was a place that Steve reffered to as the "world series hole" because it was always good around that time, it was good because of the hoards of bunker coming out of the bay in the fall...its a place you know...it has never been the same since...directly due to the bunker.

I guarantee you I can find fish when the bass are pounding bunker... somewhere else, where the bunker are not. Maybe I won't find blitzes or all monsters... but I'll do fine and I'll still get my 30-40 pound fish... Every bass in the ocean will NOT be eating bunker in the middle of the bay where I cannot reach. :fishslap:

Hi Bill...:bshake: :bshake:

"Every bass in the ocean will NOT be eating bunker in the middle of the bay where I cannot reach"

Maybe not, but most will be especially the fat hungry ones:rotf2: ..And they dont tend to be in the "middle" exactly....in fact most were in 7 foot of water or less:smash:

In all honesty, this is good for everybody exept dave who will pursue his linesides very far away from any bunker and stalk the shorelines with cat-like swiftness pouncing on lean hungry malnutrishuned bass that were to dumb to follow the food sourse...and only in Raging heavy turbulant seas :rotf2:

Billy on the other hand will be content slipping along the calm shorelines tossing lively bunker along same and in between sips on the Budweiser can take just enough time to set the 3/0 trebble in the maw of a large fat well fed bass..and do all this between the hours of 10am to 1pm and get his sleep at night:jump1:

Oh Boy..Let me get the Hip Boots out..It's gettin' deep now..:laughs:

This is a very interesting & hot discussion, but bill #5165 just concerns itself with the menhedon once they get into the bay. Is that enough? A healthy bait population means a healthy preditor population [i.e. bass]. It's a nice start, what about the bait along the rest of the coast? What shape are they in? I love reading the everyones opinions. Thanks.

I'm still amazed that people can't see the overall good in this....... afraid of killing too many cows?? how about, now every fish can eat like a cow, and grow up fat and healthy!!?!!! and fluke and albies will have peanuts to eat, and the water quality can improve.............

last year in CT we saw bunker in places we never dreamedof catching them- and big bass were right in there with them. yeah, we had to adapt- we moved off the same ol' rock that gave up fish for the last 15 years- so what?? made it more exciting that way anyhow- and still didn't have to liveline a single bunker all season to catch a fish; they ate big wood just fine.

oh yeah- and the local shioops can still castnet all the fresh baits they want........ fresher and cheaper

Personally I feel this is a great chance to return things to the way they should be. More bunker means more food for bass- food that is rich in nutrients and fat needed for healthy fish.
Maybe the occurence of skin lesions and mal-nourished fish being greatly reduced will help offset the loss of cows caught on a live lined bunka.
We can protect the cows only so well- guys with other live baits, ie scup still kill plenty of big girls. So I feel if they are not eating bunker they are eating something else and just as likely to be caught.
At least the fish that feed on bunker will be healthier and fatter when we catch them. The trickle down effect from healthy bunker stocks will be felt through out the eco system.
I remember the mid to late 80s when the bunker were so thick you couldn't cast without snagging them. The blues with them were massive and healthy. The bass stocks were in the gutter, so we never caught many, but now give us good bass numbers with a superior supply of arguably the striped bass's most nutrious food and lets see what happens.

I DON<T BELIEVE THIS WHOLE F #$%^&*()_&^ THREAD ////


ya gotta be a complete moron not to realize that this will benefit everyone >>>>>>>>>>>>Most of you guys that are bitching are clueless to what a positive impact the pogies would have on the whole fishing community not just the bay // not just Rhode Island .................>>>>>>>>>>>> some of you really need to sit back & shut the f $^&*up because you don,t know #^&#^&#^&#^&-%$%$%$%$ what your talking about .......... assuming / this & assuming that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kiss my IRISH f $%^&*()ASS ________no need for me to go back to this thread ///it just confirmed what I had thought for quite a while >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alot of the know-it -all fisherman >>>>>> ARE F #$%^&*()(*& CLUELESS :eek5: :nailem: