Saltheart I get what you are saying. IMO if someone really wanted to take more than their limit, they will commercial permit or not. The odds of getting caught are slim.

John,

Iwas saying that SB management is not just a State to State issue, as a matter of fact it is much more a Regional Issue. The leading Bopdy when it comes to SB Mgmt is the Atlantic ststes Marine Fisheries Comission (ASMFC). This body makes the overall plan for SB throughout the whole east coast. Then, each individual State can define it's regs that MUST comply with the overall plan. Some States use every last SB they are allowed to manage. MA has traditionally set its own regs more restrictive then the ASMFC plan. This is why MA is still at 1 Fish. This being said now let's move onto coming hearings.

There are two different management plans coming to Public Hearings this Summer. The first set coming is the proposed changes to the MA regs. these two hearings and the ongoing Public Comment period are this coming Monday and Tuesday. The second set of Hearings and Public Comment time is the ASMFC Ammendment 6 to the Striped bass Management Plan. This ammendment will have multiple options and is a developing plan in its last stages (time for the Public to step up and take a look.

My comment that you referred to is that VERY FEW who consider themselves in the know have any idea what is going on with regards to ASMFC. This is a very sad comment. This is why Recs get the short end when it comes to Fisheries Management in general. Without trying to be attacking, Mr Sandman can wax poetic about his plan to Comm Fish next year and write about it but in the long run it will not mean a thing with regard to affecting any kind of change. I give the example of the discovery magazine expose on Menhaden fishing along the east coast. That was the most devistating info I have read in a long time but recs get upset after the fact and missed the boat on that one in general. In the end some stopgap measures were enacted but real reform in that Fishery has and is not coming. Back to SB

As long as the Rec sector want to go off on some sort of dramatic tangent instead of showing up, joining the process, and committing to management issues long term, we lose. I know that RFA, CCA, MSBA and possibly a few others will deliver their Public commets at the MA hearings next week, but without calls, letters and bodies to show that the elected Officers of these Organizations are truely standing for their constituents. We need opinionated people like sandman to show up and get involved. I am saddened when I see the wasted energy used in heated discussions and general sweeping accusations. Childish Dramatic Rants have never worked, ever. I hope people show up and get involved.
My dad taught me something when I was young, "I got no right to bitch if I do not vote" I have never missed and election, not even a town election since I became of age.

Mr Sandman,

The following is my schedule for tomorrow.

5am Wake up and get moving...6am Meet Beetle and drive to the North Shore (Everett & Plum Island) to deliver & pick-up MSBA Charity Tournament stuff...9:30 am Meet Legislative Chair for the RFA Mike Doebley in Wouburn for Breakfast and learn about ASFMC proposals, throwmin some Groundfish and MA DMF discussions to further strengthen the REC approach to the upcoming hearings, then move on...12 noon back on the Charity Tournament delivery route, Sandwhich, Buzzards Bay, Wareham, Dartmouth, Halifax, Braintree...breathe around 6pm..be done by 7pm..Go home

All this after 9 hours of similar schedule today (Thursday)

No I am not looking for simpathy or a medal, my point is that you do not know me, nor seem to have any clue about what I am all about. You continue to state that I am all about the $$ and would take every last fish...Well my friend Friday is the second day this week I will work my but off for no $$$...I am 36 with a Girl and Step Daughter at home. I live check to check like most. FYI it is all about the Fishing for me, not the money. I do what I do and make the choices I make because when I grew up the sight of a Striped Bass in Boston was NEWS and I will never forget the first time I saw one, and caught one some years later. I respect that you have differing opinions than I do, thank God. But I will say that you need to stop making sweeping general statements that include me. I do not know if you fish RI, but if you do, the next time you go there as a Ma fisherman and are not hammered with an insane out of state license fee, think of me, and the few MA fishers who actually drove down there in the winter, prepared with facts to back up our arguements, who took part in the process and helped stop the salt water license. You judge me without knowing me but won't show up at a meeting where your opinions are wanted and needed. I hope we get to meet and wet a line some day since I spend roughly 50 days a year fishing in your neighborhood. You just might get some real info on me...If you want references, Fisherwoman, Baitcaster, BassmaSTER, jOHN r, AND OFF LINE ASK sTEVE mORRIS WHAT HE THINKS OF ME. yOU MIGHT JUST BE SUPRISED WHAT YOUM HEAR...209AM GOTTA GET SOME SLEEP

If a person fishing commercially caught a new state record SB, would it count as a legitimate record fish? I only ask because if I decide to keep a 36'' SB while fishing as a recreational angler and then later catch a record fish, by law I would have to let the record fish go. This means that I would not have the opportunity to have it weighed and formally recognized as a new state record - or world record ;).

My hunch is that the commercially caught record fish wouldn't count because that would give a 40:1 advantage to commercial fishermen. Also, it would be a shame to have that fish end up at the seafood counter rather than someone's wall. I tried checking the DMF website but it seems down.

Mike

Patrick - RE #7 - Yeh, that's what I was talking about - I thought you thought I was wrong :err: ....

To those who don't know him, BasicPatrick is a loud, smelly, sometimes delirious fishnut that is about as "Feel No Pain" fishing as they come. I haven't fished with him much but one week on the Vineyard (he was there 3 or 4 weeks I think) for the derby showed me that he fishes for 20 hours a day and sleeps, farts, & snores the other 4 hours. Meals are consumed as flats of butterfish on the boat as he chases his true Mistress, the Atlantic Bonito :laughs:

Seriously, I've known Patrick for about 5 years now and he does spend a lot of time chasing this stuff down and being in contact with fisheries management people and going to meetings. He was one of a few Mass people at the Rhody license meetings standing up and making (for the most part :D ) good point.

So while I don't always agree with him, I do respect his opinions as they are often based in merit and some research, and otherwise - he's a pretty good egg as well as someone good to fish with and discuss these matters...

Enough of my serinade of The Good Patrick ...

Oh - and so there is no confusion - this guy is not the Other Patrick...

Flatts - the record books are for RECREATIONALLY caught fish. Not commercial. Not to say that a comm guy getting an 80 pounder might try to bend the lae a little, I'm sure a sizeable percentage of recs would consider something sneaky too ...

'Course, that's why I release 99% of my keepers so that when the time comes for me to land that 88 pound behometh, I won't need to ask that question :D

BasicPatrick,

You don't know me either. I am actually a very quiet fellow in person. I honestly respect your charity efforts regarding fishing related activities. But remember you can't have a charity fishing event if there is no fish to fish for. No matter how your good intensions are.

With regard to sb management, you site several basic issues.

1) That recs get the shaft (because of lack of attendance at these meetings)
2) Commercial’s are dominating the board
3) That there is a goal for coast wide general guidelines for states to adhere to being formed, (that really aims (IMO) to protect the commercial interests.

How are the rec's to get a fair shake? IMO the rec's are quiet now because the striped bass problem has been "resolved". (ie there are stripers out there now) When there are no fish to catch...then they will attend. This is sad but a fact of life. The commercial interest is exploiting this fact.

I know you like the sb, many people do. My question to you is worth the money to loose the fish? Most rec's are content to do whatever it takes including a complete no-take limit to see that the fish thrives forever. When I attended the meetings in the past I did not sense that mood among the commercial fishermen. Commercial fishing is one of those industries that has always had to "learn from its mistakes"...time and time and time again. The thing is most guys know what the mistakes are while they contnue to make them year after year after year.

Commercial = $. It is about money. That is what commercial means...for money. Don't deny that. Again, IS IT WORTH IT?

I also don't hate commercial fisherman. Commercial fishing is hard work and is a hit or miss job with a lot of risks, both financial and physical. I was a commercial shell fisherman (little necks, & scallops) (and did some eel combing in the fall) for 10 years, (LI NY) and while I know it is not the same as rod and reeling or dragging I bet a very large majority of the 3000 lics sold for SB are guys "sport" doing it cause it is cheap to do. Further I think this is a ploy by the commercial fishing bodies at-be to lure in sport guys into commercial activities to help thier cause....why else would the fees be so inexpensive? My thoughts on commercial fishing boil down to 3 or 4 reasonable (in my view) thoughts:

1) The state should not encourage the "weekend commercial fisherman", it should be left to real fishing professionals. This does more harm then good. I have seen the results of part time netting...not good, you ended up with drifting gill nets in the bays. Rod and Reall for bass..does more harm then good as well.

2) Commercial fishing should be an offshore activity, not an inshore activity. Let the inshore fish be a public rec activity. It is too easy to wipe out an inshore fishery with the technology available today.

3) While I know that real serious commercial fisherman pay lic's and hefty fees...the general public does not understand what they are doing to "help improve" the fishery for tomorrow. They are seen as "takers". They did not "grow" their crop, they took what belongs to all mankind and sold it for personal gain. In effect they sole from us. But they think they "own it" because they pay a lic fee to the state. They need to give something back and the public needs to hear about this.

4) Foreign fishing must be 200 miles off shore. As a boy off Montauk, I saw Russian fishing factory ships in 60 feet of water right off the point that had nets that went from the surface and scraped the bottom. The best thing this country ever did (with regard to fishing) IMO was the 200 mile limit, and setting bluefin tuna and striped bass limits and quotas. Can you imagine where the bluefin tuna would be if it was left a free-for-all? The commercial fishing activities (rod and reel as well as other methods) would take every last one. No one can deny this.

5) Inforcement of current fishing laws. Perhpaps this should be number 1. When was the last time you were checked? Where you ever checked?



Patrick, I don't have anything against you or other commercials personally, please believe me, and perhaps some late night off the beaten path under the bluffs our paths will cross and we can swap a story or two. I am not a hostile guy, (despite my ratings here) and I prefer to avoid most people and don't care to fish in contests or in crowds. I think the reason I am so vocal here is that it just disgusts me to see money associated with this particular fish. This is a special fish. It is not a flounder or scup, it has a special meaning to many fisherman. I don't think commercial fishing needs this fish but mankind does.

I enjoy the solitude of the sport and the surroundings it puts me in while doing it. I also like to see the excitement on a child’s face when they reel in a bigone and the feeling of satisfaction and conservation when he is released unharmed. And the hope that that kid will do the same with his kids. Yeah, I take some fish home for the freezer. Each time we enjoy it we recount the memories of past fishing trips. This reminds us of how lucky and grateful we all are to be able to have such a great resource.

I think it is time to do what is right for the fishery and not "manage" the fishery for maximum yield and profits. I have been thinking about my statements about going commercial next year...I don't know if I have the heart to toss a 40 on the scales for $...I think would actually pay to see it put back alive. We will see what happens...

Anyway, I am finished ranting on this thread. You all know where I stand.

Good luck to you my friend.

Time to go fishing......
:)

I'm not fanning flames here and am not entering this debate, but maybe this would be a good chance for someone "in the know" to let us know how we can help. Provide leadership and information of who we can contact with letters and emails.

Most people will be passive even if they disagree, often 'cause it feels like you can't really contribute w/o attending meetings, etc. Bottom line is that one has to take care of their own yard first, and I'm sure most of us struggle to keep up with that.

I'm not going to find that kind of time anytime soon, but would be happy to write to whoever, to explore other options of ways to contribute.

Maybe adding a conservation forum where these things are updated.

Sorry if this information was already in this thread, I haven't been able to browse much this week. Anyway, just an idea.

How so?

I suppose I should respond...

I meant commercial rod and reel for bass does more harm then good.

What good is done by taking bass for money? Few people benifit but the fish population for generations feel the pain.

Sandman,

Gotchya. I originally thought that you were saying the method itself was bad.

Mike