thats kind of like Ken Abrahm's theory on different populations of bass. same fish migrate to the same places each year. once they're gone, they're gone....

I love how people blame this on seals and think they should be killed. The seals NEED to eat those fish to survive. We go fishing because it's fun and we enjoy it, not because we have to or we will starve to death. If we humans hadn't raped the ocean of all the fish that used to be in it, we wouldn't see these seals showing up in these areas. They're a part of the food chain and natural cycle of the ocean, we are not.

maybe so.....but don't forget who is at the top of the food chain of the entire planet....

WW, this is "Striped-Bass.com" not "Seals.com". Obviously you don't fish out there, and I guarantee you would be singing a different tune if your fishing grounds were almost renedered useless by a species of animal that's population has exploded and started to spread like a disease. I guess people who complain about zebra muscles are morons too. After all, they need to live in the water.

I never called anybody a moron. I just think the train of thought is funny. We overfished the places the seals would normaly eat, forcing them to find other habitats. Now they come to your neck of the woods, and ruin your fishing(which is debatable) so they should all be killed so you can catch more fish and have more fun.

bruce,

funny, i was talking to dave m not too long ago about this. he thinks it's largely cyclical too.

-b

Go gettem Mikey!
Still gotta nother 3 weeks till fishing gets good!
Later,
Rick
Vice President Sealz.com

What do you mean by "debatable" exactly? About the moron comment. I kind of picked up on some passive aggressive undertones in your first post and was just playing off of that. Honestly tell me you wouldn't get frustrated if a place you were fishing for years, all of a sudden became almost unfishable because of an animal that was never there before. If you can tell me that wouldn't bother you, I think you might be on the wrong site.

I think Mikey ate them all.
 

ooops, did I say that out loud

I'm just saying you don't know for a fact the reason that you've seen a decline in stripers is directly linked to seals. I agree with numbskulls theory, but none of us know for a fact. That makes it up for debate.

I would be upset if one of the spots I fished was being taken over by seals, but I realize that they need to eat those fish alot more than I do and instead of killing the seals, I'd try to find out why it was happening.

And I guess since I'm not down with the extinction of the seal species, I can't be a real striper fisherman according to you.

the fish are afraid of all the young plovers,terns,kites,oystercatchers,sanderlings lurking at the edge of the wash.:laugha:

so am I .

Its a cycle ! notice there isnt much bait . was that scared off by the seals ? I doubt it . seals need to eat food that is going to be filling . and bait doesnt fit the bill even for my little frame .

I never once said I was down with the extinction of seals. Personally, I would like some type of hunting season like we have for deer in order to keep the population at a controlled level. I'm sure you are a fine fisherman Will. I'm just saying when you make statements like "I think the train of thought is funny" or "I love when people say......" which are definitely trying to imply something insultive, somebody's going to say something back at you. I guess we just have to agree to disagree on this one. I'm out. :deadhorse:

your out ?
playing baseball ?
out on limb ?
out of your mind ?
outside ?
your out of ? milk ? bread ? money ? beer ?
out of town ?
outsider ?
outrider ?
get out and stay out ?
out sourced ?
outhouse ?"
out of the house ?
in the outhouse ?
inside out ? outside in ?
are you outside looking in ? a TOM peeper ?
out take ?
take out ?
out there ? where ?
peace out
YOUR OUT
IM OUT
WE ARE ALL OUT
a babies arm holding an apple

Thats because they use all the new up to date gear they win at the TFCTFN and catch all the fish before you get the chance.:humpty:

Mosquitos

That's a good theory and I buy into it. I don't think that's the case on the cape right now, but with some of the older classes of fish we caught, I believe that's exactly what happened.They either died of old age or were caught. I would call that scenario depletion/attrition, not genetics though. If it were genetic wouldn't the offspring of the missing fish return to take their place? It would be just like salmon. Who the %$%$%$%$ knows.:conf:

This used to be a decent day on the water. Pic is from 1990. My old 12' tin boat and 4 fish in the 40# class.The small one was in the low 20's just for scale. I took the fish right in front of highland light.

silly me..I thought it was us humans...I'm just gonna stick to finding the perfect pair of loafers...

I used to think that too....then it occurred to me, who's feeding off of us?

That would be the oil companies but thats another thread!!

That old Wise great Striper in the sky :wiggle: finally got fed up with all the B.S. Cape beach closures for inane reasons... the jacked- up oversand Permit Fees with ever- decreasing legal territory to roam... and the petty exclusivity in who can & can't drive the beach S. of Nauset Inlet... etc., etc.

...Not to mention that Freak night- guard at the Nauset Lot having the nerve to bang on your windows if by some lunacy you decide you want to nap in your vehicle there between sessions at 3 AM in October! :smash: :bshake:

That Great one in the Sky finally answered & attacked these corrupt human forces ruining the unfettered & raw Striper paradise that the 90 miles of Outer Cape sand used to be for many thousands in love with the place...

BY sending a plague of Seals & barrenness under the surf- line besides... that would affect & punish those most that (ultimately) profited then the most $- wise by active beaches!

(i.e., the Politicos, & Townships & Feds & others that used to economically benefit most when beaches full of Stripers used to lure drooling Casters :drool: AND their families from far & away, ready to spend their hard- earned cash in pursuit! :fishin: )

These Politicos & Townies still have to live there, prosperous or not! We Casters have our mobility and can & will just chase Stripers & spend our cash in less restrictive & more productive spots/ Coasts elsewhere! :zup:

When all 90+ miles of Outer Cape are again legally drivable by Striper- hounds (in non- Summer bathing months at least...) THAT's when the "Great" Striper above will finally make the Seals disappear there, back to WAY North from whence they came... then the bait will return to the shallows... & the hungy Bass as they always did will again follow! :tooth: :uhuh:

ya fat chance of that happening with the internet :tooth:

HAHAHAHA----Vic, I just blew beer all over my mother computer!!!!hahahahahaaa


I grew up fishing the back side--Wellfellet to P-town--Its where I learned to fish from my father and the yokel locals----I lay in bed most nights and dream about how the fishin USED to be--how you could get out of the car and KNOW that you were gonna catch at least 1 fish over 30#'s and more often than not you would catch multiples-- This past year was THE first time in my life since I was born, that I did not make at least one trip down there---Over the years the fishing has steadily declined for all of these theories.
I personlly blame it mainly on the seal population that has grown out of control- I think a lot of it has to do with the Sh$t pipe too--more mung from it----I understand it is cyclical in ways, bait, natural migarting patters, but I will satnd by the theroy that it is mainly the seals, cause the problems really began with their resurgensce---Lets cut back on them some and see if it helps. I f it doesn't, no worry...they'll be back in short order....

Every night I am putting on my wetsuit and strapping on my corkers now, I tear up thinkin about the long lost memeories of waders, a t-shirt and a bucket of eels with the ability to walk MILES a night looking for fishin and not havin to worry about breakin off fish on rocks---or hopin one swims by---sorry...

http://www.retrojunk.com/details_commercial/499/
The world is changing and it effects every species

Something for the Truck.... :hihi:

TDF, where might one buy a sticker like that? It's the nutz!

I agree....NEED the sticker.

With the recent proliferation of bunker and other bait species further south, what would motivate a striper to leave that and continue to migrate north where bait fish might be harder to come by.
Might this trend have started with man's intervention in restricting limits on menhaden to commercial fisheries further south?

holy %$%$%$%$, a redlite sighting :tooth:

Its all back beach's fault :hihi:

New S-B.Com sticker I'll take a doz.

The seals make sense. Here is another theory that was pedestrian in 2006...
A surf-master mentioned that there is a line of lobster traps run the length of beach beyond casting distance. Cows come in from the deep, eat the lobsters, then go back and never make it into the surf zone. That was the theory, any way.

What I do know for certain is that fishing patterns are cyclical in nature. If they are not bitting on the outer cape...where are they biting?

-Fish360.

I think it is confluence of seals and cyclicality of bait patterns.

Most will tell you that the last few years has seen the pattern of the long ribbon of sand eels a few hundred yars offshore that happens for unexplained reasons, on and off, over time. Fish are out there on that bait....so why come in for less bait and potential of getting munched by a seal?

When that offshore sand eel pattern breaks, as it always has in the past, you'll see the bait back closer to the beach, and therefore more fish in the surf. But with so many seals, I'm not sure if can ever get all the way back to what it once was. :(

It may be due to the large amount of nutrient rich ground water now showing up in seepage due to old septic systems and large scale development
Approximately 80% of the nitrogen that enters the watershed comes from these private septic systems, and the remainder from other non-point sources. The effect is nutrient or nitrogen loading of the surrounding watershed above the critical load. Various species of plants and animals which inhabit estuaries cannot tolerate this level of nutrient loading, because it spawns a large amount of bottom algae, over-shading of eelgrass, and, ultimately, a depletion of oxygen in and an increase in the toxicity of the water. Each of these effects will send fish to other feeding grounds, while killing plants and animals that live on or in the ocean floor.
Could be the first signs.......

here ya go....all the seal clubbing paraphernalia you could want.......Just promise me you won't get the thong. :shocked:

http://www.cafepress.com/iclubseals

all good theories, but i'll go with the seals. their numbers have been steadily increasing, and i am one of those that was dedicated to the outer beaches. for now, it is not my first choice anymore. i find i'm looking to the inlets, or up inside more than i used to; but it's just not the same. people think i'm a savage when i tell them i hate seals, but.....bring along mr. whitey, and ring the dinner bell. i will never shed a tear when i come across a seal carcass with it's head missing, or a big chunk taken out of it.

Well 07 was the first year without a beach sticker(nauset) for me since the start of the seashore, since the town check in, since getting on the beach by going down Smith neck rd, since driving to nauset inlet by driving north by the nauset gatehouse insted of Callahan rd, sincehitch hicking with cans of gas , a battery,and a tool box as kids to unregistered junks left on smith neck rd. I wonder what theory the powers to be have on the missing fish. Oya i live just down the road a piece on the cape

I CAN'T IMAGINE A SEAL WOULD WASTE IT'S TIME AND ENERGY ON SMALL BAITFISH. I HAVE SEEN THEM POP UP IN 180 FEET OF WATER OFF THE RACE WITH GRILL SIZE FISH IN THEIR MOUTHS. PRAY FOR SHARKS,ORCAS,DISEASE WHATEVER. ITS A REAL SHAME WHAT HAS HAPPENED, I HAVE A FEELING THEY ARE JUST GOING TO KEEP SPREADING SOUTH AND WEST. SENDING A CASE OF LOUSISVILLE SLUGGERS UP NORTH TO OUR BLOOD SPLATTERED PALS ON THE ICE.

I think of it this way.....most of the fish on the outer beaches get there coming up the ocean side rather than through the canal.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I beleive that means they have to swim by 6,000 seals stacked up down around Monomoy & Chatham.

How surprising would it be that most of them turned around, or got eaten if they did't?

Opinions are like ass*oles, everyones got one but in reality the big picture here is a complex mix of alot of things I think.

I do know that a lot less people are fishing out there, especially after dark.

I do know if you work at it you will catch fish out there.

You can blame seals, waste water, the Great Striper in the sky, global warming etc but who really knows. Conjecture.

I believe that seals do eat more bait inshore than off and no bait means no fish but bait can still be found, especially at locations that hold large bodies of water behind bars at low tide. You have to adapt your methodology.

As long as the YOY indexes remain strong there will be no investigation by any scientific body.

I talk to a lot of charter guys and others who find fish all the time just off shore and have exeperienced it for myself.

I have also had a few nights in the last couple years where there were thirty guys on the beach plugging from dusk to 10pm and left and the fish showed heavy for several nights in a row at 2:30am til' dawn where I and a friend had them all to ourselves and would listen with sympathetic faces as truck after truck went by leaving the beach because "can you beleive how bad the fishing is here these days" to which we would reply "yeah it really sucks doesn't it?" knowning full well what was happening each night in the wee hours.

I beleive that most folks fishing the beach have really lost or maybe a lot of them never had the ability to read the signs or the the real desire to put in the effort and time that is required to learn the structure, get the rythym of the bass's use of the beaches. Some places they show for hours and some for as little as 20 minutes on a stage of the tide. You have to know this in order to capitilize.

It's a lot of work to read the structure, find the patterns of when they will come into a certain spot on what stage of what tide. Without this knowledge most beaches will always be looked upon as barren by those not willing to go the extra mile or sacrifice the warmth of the bed at home for wet sand.

And most importantly you have to believe that it will come back at some point. And believe me, they will but you won't hear it from me..

Best responses yet. The best years I had out there were late 80's to about 1995. You remember those days don't you? There weren't any fish out there then either. Late 80's they were supposedly going extinct, and it took close to 10 years for all of the laymen to catch on. By the time all the "experts" emerged in the late 90's to early 2000's, it was almost over. For now.:angel: