So if you tell everyone you are a #7 what # does that make you?

Actually I think in some cases #7 is a humble guy who knows a lot and realizes it's more fun to share it and watch other people enjoy, than take it to the grave with him.

Good point. If you tell anyone, then by default you become a #5...:laugha:

Quite the twisted flow chart I put together here, isn't it?

More to the point of this thread is if you value yourself or another angler simply by what is caught then you're not seeing the full picture.

Chris, I'm not sure what my profession has to do with this discussion, but since it seems to bother you, please be informed the editors at OTW (who reside in the same town as I) made that decision on their own, not at my request nor with my fore knowledge. I'm not sure why you think how someone earns a living carries any weight in the fishing community, aren't all men equal in the eyes of a fish? Anyways, thanks for your good wishes, now where do I get some cake? :rolleyes:

Pie in the Sky???

Dr. George, since you seem convinced that my fishing is ego driven due to the fact I catch and kill or target large I made an effort to show you what it feels like to be accused of the same. I am sorry if you missed my point. I would also like to apologize if in fact the title was provided by OTW. No disrespect intended but it did come across as pompous as well as hypocritical based on your ego accusations. Again, my bad.

There's actually a well defined piscatorial pecking order.....eelers on top and, of course, everyone else on the bottom.

Exactly.....It's not a monster until it's at your feet on dry land or in your hands when you're in the water.. Heavy tackle, quick reaction, smart decision making, patience, appropriate pressure, and a good hook set all play a role.

you can bend the trebles.

bass dawg,
careful with the gami octopus hooks. those will snap.

Scuse me.Physics says they have to start straightning before they break.

Like I said I've Straightened 6X's.I ain't a %$%$%$%$ing liar.

Must be %$%$%$%$ing Winter.

I'm not sure I want to move up the totem pole in this tribe..
That is unless I am already at number seven.In which case you all are beneath me.
Wait, that wouldn't make me very humble then would it.
I guess I fall into the NIBulas realm of purgatory between six and seven..:tm:
This reminds me of a chapter from Dante's Book..:conf:
I just wanna go to PITS..:humpty:

Chris, please let's stop this. It distracts from the good things about this board. Other people probably find our behavior venial as well.

Let me try to clarify where I stand. I consider you an excellent fisherman, one of the best on the site, and certainly better than myself. I respect your knowledge, hard work, and well deserved success. How you fish doesn't matter to me. Really. Sauerkraut, one of the guys I fish the most, uses eels whenever conditions allow. That you keep fish doesn't matter to me. Earlybird (a lurker), the other guy I fish with most often, always keeps a fish to eat (and so do I to give to someone on occasion). What you do with your fish doesn't matter to me (I kill plenty practicing C&R). I don't even think you are the kind of guy who keeps fish to parade them around. Absolutely I don't blame you for keeping one to win a VS. I don't blame you for selling them legally, (I don't know that you even do). ProfM is a friend and a commercial fisherman.

I think you have excellent reason to be proud of your success as a fisherman, and no reason to be defensive about that pride. We all need things to support our self esteem, and being good at catching large fish is a healthy (and enviable) thing to excel at. That's probably the goal of most of us here on the site. You are also clearly intelligent, literate, and insightful. I agree, for instance, that both the article title (which was mine...though not the DR bit) and (even worse) at times the tone of the OTW article I wrote came across as pompous, but its intent was to help and encourage people to become better fisherman.....not to build my reputation.

For my part, I love to plug and I like to preach its joys to the uninitiated, who I fear get inundated with the mentality that if you are not soaking bait you are not going to catch anything good, and I love to tease the non-believers (even if they've got a point). I also worry about the pressure on big bass and want to encourage people to release them (primarily so I'll have a better chance to catch one, admittedly). I do not think I am smarter or better than you or anyone else. I've been humbled and ashamed too many times to go there anymore.

So let's try over again and keep it friendly. I'd rather learn from you than fight with you. Merry Christmas, Chris.

George

MERRY CHRISTMAS MIKE. AFTER 40 YEARS OF FISHING . . . I LIKE BEING A GHOST. ITS ALL A BLUR ANYWAY.

:kewl:

Serenity eternally.

"and so do I on occasion to give to someone"

HMMM..... Wasn't I who caught that bass to give to your sister?:bshake:

yup

gami live baits for me

thanks VERRRRY Much,

luds and jimmySly for the advice
about the Gammi Octo's,,,,,,,,,,,

nothing but Gammi Lives from here awn in.
or would you suggest mustad, VMC, others??

also to Crafty for letting me know it's all in me noggin!!

glad to sea that you and the Good doctor ironed
things out, Chris. thanks to the both of you for yer
wisdom and reflections. also, thanks to flap and BB!!

NIB, much thanks for your contributions as well!
missed you at RISAA last year,,,,,,,,,,,prolly by design
on your part. i hear ya though, the more i hook them the more i
am loving the fight and the Zen of it, and am only one or two more big gurls
away from being a frequent flyer in the over fiddy Club.
i know, i know, "doan tell me, SHOW me the weigh slips!!"

i am not saying so for recognition, nor does my ego need internet caressing, i would just like to reach THAT particular benchmark on me way to the World Record,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and yes that is my Ultimate Striperin' Goal~~ a legitimate 80#er, from tha surf!!!

if i garner sum high dollar schwag along the way, help me teammates to reclaim The Cup, win a shot at a Tundra, and get to surfcast with sum of NE's finest,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,then so BE it!!
*that is if the Striperin' Gods will allow.*

and i DO tip me hat when the beasts best me and they swim to fight on another Moon, this THREAD in and of itself is a tribute to the MONSTAHS "that get away". a year bigger and hopefully a year closer to my idiocy becoming consistency and my own drives and challenges being met. i release waaaaay more than i weigh, and feel good about my respect for our beloved prey,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

this was more about how long does it take and how many do EVEN the Best lose yearly,,,,,,,,,,,because it seems to me that it IS a progression, and that no matter HOW MANY it TAKES to land lahhhhge ~~with sum sense of regularity,

it is the journey that feeds OUR hunger, the hunt that fuels THE take,
and it is the striper dawn battles that beget OUR Striper Dreams.
of course, then there is the retelling of the tales!! :bl: :bl: :bl:

some of the best conversations i've ever had with ANYONE and the most intently i will ever listen to ANYONE has always been connected to God and fishing. NOW, even more so within this suprarecreation, surfcasting the Striper Coast, that takes surfcasting to its loftiest of heights
and causes many a man, woman, and child to seek a species' elusive splendor on serene and distant shores; surrounded by noone or alongside one's fishmate(s) latched onto a screaming drag and the trophy of a thousand haunts.
:jump: :jump:

BG, how are you typically losing them? are they breaking you off in the rocks, pulling the hook on you or getting slack and throwing the hook? I think knowing this will help us give advise. also, what rod are you using?

thanks Clogston,

i use an 11' glass mh rod, with a PENN750ssm for eels, riggies, sluggos, and chunks.
i use a 10' tsunami dolphin mh action with a 704Z for plugs, tins, and jiggggs.

last year i lost 2; 1 due to not re-spooling after sum decent feesh the night before~~rubbed the line on the rocks,,,,,,,and then SNAP (eeeeels set-up)!! the other because i hooked my eel the wrong way ~~she sucked it in and shook/ripped the eeeeel off the hook.

the year before that 2; 1 jumped and came right at me and jumped into a trough right at my feet green as she could be and she snapped the line(40#BGame uni to uni 25#PLine on the spool), the other one ona spook, wrapped my braid under a rock and started rolling herself up in the leader as i gave her more line(kayakker told me, as he was right on top of her)

the year before that 1; this beast hit a bug imitator that was not hooked properly, she hunkered down, and then spit my offering out like it was a waste of her time since i never got the hook set.

each event was a teacher, and each fight has made me more fit
for the next ones that WILL COME with next summer's migration.

that is, the Good Lord providing that me Honey Cove staaaaaaaays HOTTT
and me bones and my health be blessed to hop the Cape of Ann!!!
:bl: :bl: :bl:

How about #8

8. Who cares. It's just fishing. No one is gonna die. No one goes to jail (hopefully) Enjoy it for what it is.

Happy Holidays!!!

Been using Gami Octos(usually 6/0) for a long time and have landed dozens of big fish with them. Never once had one snap or straighten out.

Is this a common occurence?

sometimes you just don't land them

with a glass rod and mono, i'd really concentrate on the hookset with eels, don't think you'll be able to set too hard, so give it hell

if they take you in the rocks, don't be afraid to take the line off the pickup and let them go just holding the line between your fingers and applying enough pressure to keep slack out. once they move out of the rocks, just start the fight all over.

and don't be afraid to let them run on a looser drag. they usually wear themselves out that way and are more controllable in close. if you fish a tight drag and don't let them run, they tend to dive for obstructions more.

just a few ideas that i've found have helped me, but sometimes the fish wins. Its part of the fun (i think :huh:)

[QUOTE=Clogston29;647697]sometimes you just don't land them
with a glass rod and mono, i'd really concentrate on the hookset with eels, don't think you'll be able to set too hard, so give it hell[Quote]

First off, by your definition of 'Monstah' almost no one in this thread have landed one, with a few notable exceptions...
But on 'Decent' fish...

I agree 100%.
As a mono/composite rod guy (1201m) Hookset is vital. I fish next to a guy who fishes braid and stiff graphite. he flicks his wrist and is hooked up :smash:
And I fish Mustad hooks....

I learned by watching a crew from Newport that specializes in chunking and big fish. Drop the tip, extend your arms, AND when it comes tight, set the hook.Your reel should be behind your ear!

other than that, it's half luck, half skill and half circumstances :smash:

No.

i think, but am not sure, that luds is talking about the gami circles. a buddy of ours was using them and losing some good fish. it took a while for us to notice that the point of the hook was breaking at the bend - and he was fishing them "right", not setting the hook.

octi's are decent hooks. but try out the gami live bait (not live bait hd) and you won't go back. best eel hooks out there IMHO.

another thing that i noticed (and it may just be me) but i've had better hookup ratios when using my 1213m (glass) for eels with 7/0 live bait hooks than the 6/0 that i typically use. i've also found that the glass rod sucks for riggies (not only because its too heavy) because its too soft to drive the 9/0 siwashes home.

Clgston and brian are right on!

maybe decksweeper can chime in on the vmc's.....model #
the one's he is using for eeling are really good hooks..thick shank...huge barb....wide gap..perfect eel hook...tough to find though

Bigger gap on the 7/0, so I would agree the hookup ratio would potentially be higher.

1979 SW point..had fish every single cast all night long and only got one to the beach. (And I thought I was pretty accomplished then) All the fish were monsters. I was outgunned, tired and frankly pretty embarrassed. I had 3 empty spools by daybreak. Walked into Twin Maples the next morning and told the old man what happened to me that night...first question was, what kind of line were you using...I said 17# stren...he didn't say a word an plopped a big fat spool of 50# ande pink on the counter with a thud. I said I don't think I can cast that line all that far. His response was "Distance is not your problem son." The next night was epic.

The next thing that went were those crappy mustad trebles that came on the gibbs plugs (and rebbles/redfins). I replace all the them with hand brazed stainless steel trebles from Eagle claw (they don't make them any more...I asked, I still have a few they bring back found memories, I remember they were $100 per box and some thought I was nuts, but after loosing fish of a lifetime, you don't care what it cost you just want another shot at them.) (this was pre-vmc days). Then moved to ultra heavy split rings.

I also use the Gami Octopus in size 5,6, or 7/0. I like the fact they are slightly offset and have a hunch it increases hookups. I always snell the hook and feel more confidence since switching to that knot. It's fun to tie, especially in the dark. I will say the 7/0 size had reports of snapping but I've heard it has been resolved. I have never had one bend or snap though.The short shank in addition to the straight eye make snelling the live bait difficult IMO.I love going to M&D's in the Spring to say Hi to Mike Thomas who is the true definition of a gentleman. Mike has great prices in bulk and I will buy packs of 100 pc. hooks in addition to bulk packs of spro swivels in size 4 which are rated to 130#. Probably overkill but I feel the heavier guage wire will not cut into my leader or braid, also a confidence booster when fighting large near the rocks. Very strange year for me as I have always used the method RIrock employs for setting up on a fish. This year the majority of fish were nibblers regardless of size therefore I pulled the eel out of many mouths before I switched to fishing eels with the line between my fingertips and letting them take the bait. I would then place the line on the roller and set the hook. Every year we learn more and expect the unexpected.

Mr. Sandman, your response brings back memories! I wish we had VMC trebles back then on the Island. Sea dangles, over alot of years fishing with live eels I too like the Gami 5/0 and 6/0 octupus. I've only had one snap mid shank and will throw the m away ( hooks) after a good night. I also use Gami 7/0 's on the rigged sluggos and had one get completly straightened ot on Cutty one night. Other than that, these hooks are dependable I think. Also, this season I really got back into live eeling and tried octapus hooks by Owner and was really impressed. They are alot like the Gami's but I think a little stronger and more expensive though. A little smaller too. In the Owner I had to use 6/0 and 7/0. I don't use really big eels like some.

well said Josh and thanks for your insights. and YES!!
it is the best part of this surfcraziness that we ALL aspire to,
letting them take all the line they think they can. i LOVE that part.

only this biggun from last year i let almost spool me four times and
she took me straight into the boulders in my avatar(dead low/the water in the foreground is about 4 inches deep) at the start of the second run. that is where she began to rub me after the last run, and i chose to try to bring her up after strumming the line to no avail~~~

her head was turned, she hunkered down and i had about 3 wraps of line left on my spool
when she began to rubb me,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,4 pumps and she was gone. i could feel my line ticking back and forth off of the rocks before i stopped her the 4th time and i could feel it getting weaker and weaker with each turn of the reel. should've replaced the spool line from the 38#er, a 30#, and a 25#er the night before same tide/same place/ALL on eeeeeeeeeeeels. the saddest part was that this was the AM of 9/21, bro,,,,,,,,,,we fight and we learn!!:spin: :spin: :spin:

my hook sets seem to be fine. bow to the cow, 1-Mississippi, 2-Mississippi, 3-Mississi; with a verrry loose drag. then i roll it into her maw, thanks to Vic for that, and tighten the drag only slightly. i use 6/0 to 8/0 Gammi Octo's (depending on the beefiness of the snake) that i snell with Ande 60 pink or Ande 50 IGFA and have never had one snap. i only cross her eyes after she's taken it for awhile,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,had no problems with them coming unbuttoned, so faaaaar.

thanks again Clogston, for yer helpful suggestions.

thanks Bryan for more wise words,,,,,,,,,,,

by monstahs, my attention grabbing title, i meant 50's and up
or the trophy variety of our beloved species. i like mustads as well, but have difficulty
in finding them regularily and big enuff. will have to buy them buy the gross from the Boyz
at the Edge or from Kevin or at Sam's the next time i get to NPT.
Kay prolly has them as well,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,i will look into it for next season.

the Owner hooks i've found to be excellent, as you said Steve.
they are tough to find in Saugus as well. am very willing to try any product at least once,
although i DO have considerable confidence in the Gammi line.

THANKS a million to everyone for contributing so generously!
:kewl: :kewl: :kewl:

good stuff, Chris!

i'm a big fan of the spro 130's, it's all i use.
thanks to you, also, for your technical pointers.
i cain't wait to try all of these advices out when

THE COWWWS COME HOME!!!
:jump: :jump:

Yup, I know that one - got a source but I've been sticking to the old Mustad bronze live bait, 9146 or 7, whatever it is.

That VMC is pretty impressive and I've got one hanging on my tool rack right in front on me in the tackle shack. Keep thinking about giving them a try. There's also a short shank SS hook with a point like a ####ing hypodermic - but SS is brittle and a coupla whacks on the local rocks'd knock that thin point off in no time. Plus I'm not a big SS fan for the obvious reason.

The old bronze Mustads do require a lot of touching up with a file - but for the money, they're fine by me. I've always had good luck with 'em - if it ain't real broke...I don't bother messing with it.

I use a 5/0 or a 6/0 - I just don't like an offset hook or a kirbed point since I don't - as in won't - snell.

YMMV, I guess...

#9 Fishing is stupid, anyways.

:wavey:

#10 Fishing is only stupid if your from CT :smash::D:D:D:D

Very true.

As for this thread, I can't tell anyone how many monsters it takes as I have no idea.

The central theme here has become "gear related failures". I think that's why we lose the best ones. You're either undergunned or don't monitor the condition of your gear closely enough. Once you've hooked a fish, most of the chance/luck has been removed from the equation and it comes down to the condition and ability of your gear.

There's a few tricks involved too. A couple guys I grew up fishing the outer cape with started fishing the Elizabeth chain several years ago by boat. They were losing a lot of fish in the rocks at first as we used to just snub them down when fishing over sand. One of them finally decided to just open his bail once a good fish entangled him in the rocks and he would just stand there with his bail open until the fish came free. The landing numbers of real large fish really improved after that.

I wouldn't advocate this in the canal for the most part, but I can tell you two of the largest surf fish I've taken in the last few years came from RI and were pulled out of literal boneyards via the open bail technique. Once the fish frees itself, it tends to give in and come to shore more readlily.

Hmm.:cheers:

I took one 38 lbs one time that swamped the bunker I was livelining right next to the jetty I was fishing.I knew i could not set up on him cause the fish would surely be along the rocks.I just opened up and let it go.After it was done pulling line I just tightened up.Sure enough the fish had gone around the jetty and had me rapped up pretty good.I just let little increments of line out so it would not wear in any one particular spot and break me off..After a while I just killed it on the end of the line and brought it back nice and slow.Now I have had this happen to me a few times before And was not as successful. First time huge boil and the take I set up and the line blows up...Next time I let her run some and tried to set up.Break in the line.I always used 30 lb big game for livelining bunker.They could pull it so why not.So I figure they where taking the bait and riding along the rock line.. Believe me I have thought about what I could do different long and hard.This was in the span of a few years.You only get a few shots per year at the good ones.
My bating average was not good.But I learned my lesson..

Every fish is different.You cannot expect the playing field to be the same every time no matter if you fish the same area's all the time or not.Often times bigger fish don't do what the smaller ones do when hooked up.It's what you do when you are hooked up that counts.Some are able to put together the right moves in short time,some it takes longer.
It's the beauty of the sport.If you ask me.