JD you remind me alot of Barney Frank when you respond.
His reasons for killing the best women and men this country has,are the same reasons Bin Ladin has. Why do you fail to see that? Someone dropped the ball on this guy and maybe someday we will find out why. I still contend that trying not to offend muslums is part of it. You bring up his faith in one of your post as the reason not to jump to conclusions....case made made, Thanks

Because the evidence to that conclusion is not yet there.

What we do (think we) know is that he was deeply conflicted at the idea of Muslims fighting other Muslims, he cracked, and the violence resulted.

There's a line between being PC and just making an assumption based on negative stereotypes. Guess which side you're on?

-spence

isn't it amazing what and who the #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&s find themselves defending while constantly claiming to be the "smartest" among us?

not terrorism, just identity theft that would have resulted in an unfortunate tragedy...

Can we call this one terrorism or will it be classified as identity theft? The Telegraph has the story:

The plan, which reportedly would have been the biggest attack on America since 9/11, was uncovered after Scotland Yard intercepted an email.

The force alerted the FBI, who launched an operation which led to airport shuttle bus driver Najibullah Zazi, 24, being charged with conspiracy to use weapons of mass destruction.

The Afghan is alleged to have been part of a group who used stolen credit cards to buy components for bombs including nail varnish remover.

The chemicals bought were similar to those used to make the 2005 London Tube and bus explosives which killed 52 people.

Zazi, from Denver, Colorado, is understood to have been given instructions by a senior member of al Qaeda in Pakistan over the internet.

US authorities allegedly found bomb-making instructions on his laptop and his fingerprints on batteries and measuring scales they seized.

A phone containing footage of New York's Grand Central Station, thought to have been made by him during a visit a week before his arrest, was also found along with explosive residue. Zazi was also said by informants to have attended a terrorist training camp in Pakistan.

The alleged plot was unmasked after an email address that was being monitored as part of the abortive Operation Pathway was suddenly reactivated. [...]

The British discovery also came at just the right time - the US had threatened to sever intelligence links over the release of Lockerbie bomber Al Megrahi.

I guess he was about to "crack" too...violence likely resulting

For an officer to be openly critical of the disposition of servicemen within earshot of other miltary personal is very odd.
The military is still in dire need people that can interpret middle-eastern languages - so it could be that they are being very careful with respect to retention, but I don't think that was the case here, where we have an officer behind the act.
I think the measures the military has in place now (to identify potential threats within its ranks) is geared for enlisted men or junior officers returning from combat. I think they were blindsided because this guy was a major and an officer who had served stateside.

You're funny.

Speaking for myself, the only thing I'm defending here is objectivity. Religious ferver doesn't make one a terrorist, even if it's acted out with violence.

Sometimes I wonder if you guys have more faith than the Jihadis :hihi:

-spence

I think he was a terrorist - that's the profile that is the best fit.

scottw has the mentality of "either you agree with what I say, or you're some crazy liberal idiot that hates America." The crazy thing for him is that nothing about this topic has anything to do with a person's political ideology. But, take away partisanship, and he doesn't know how to be critical of someone so he blindly falls back to the only thing he knows - "They must have this view because they're liberals".

The terrorist reference is only being made because he's Muslim. Even the federal investigators are stating they believe this was him acting alone and motivated by him being deployed soon. Weird, *motivated by him being deployed soon* doesn't sound like "motivated to incite fear or influence government" to me.

Now, I'm curious what other non-facts will be used to continue scottw and buckman's unsupportable argument.

bottom line is a president should have more tact, and more COMMON SENSE, than to give a "Shout-out" at a moment like that. And how about if he just said he wanted to recognize someone, not give them a shout out like he was a DJ or something. It really does say something about his character, he is thinking more about himself than the country.

hold on...I get it...there is no terrorism any more...this was a "man caused disaster"...as Chris Matthews said.."it's not against the law to call Al Qaieda"...poor guy, hope he gets some treatment and can resume his life as soon as possible, the Army probably just put too much stress on him and his peers were probably always teasing him because he was a Muslin, those intolerant bastards...it's all their fault..

you are scaring me...

Careful expressing your opinion here, Joe. You should know that profiling people is wrong. Just because he harbored anti-American feelings and reached out to suspected terrorists who encourage terrorist acts against America doesn't make him a terrorist. He's just a guy who "went off the deep end".

Your right Spence, the conclusion is not there yet. That is the same attitude that allowed this to happen. Plenty of warning signs, agreed?

I'm on the side of the obvious. You don't have to be a Muslim to be a terrorist. It just that most terrorist are Muslim.

Would you agree that the Major "wouldn't have cracked" had he been a Jew?

He certainly might have. If that is the driving motivation, and he was scheduled to head to Israel or Palestine, maybe it would have been the case.

It's a tragedy, period.

I'm just going to throw this out there for you guys to think about. I'm not saying whether I think it was a terrorist act or not.

Does anyone think that if it was being investigated as an act of terrorism, the investigators would want that to be made public? Or, do you think they want to keep everything under wraps as they build a case against the guy? Also consider that Hasan is alive and will have an attorney to defend him in the criminal case.

As RIROCKHOUND wrote, it's a tragedy either way.

"cracking" to me is getting fed up and walking off a job.
This was planned and calculated and most importantly TARGETED. He went after military people. He knew what he was doing.

He wasn't going to the " front line" Brian. Stop making excuses.

Being PC and fair to everyone , not offending anyone and giving everyone ( except Bush) the benefit of the doubt is all fine and dandy on here, but in real life it gets people killed.

Maybe your attitude will change when you hear that it was Bush's administration that appears to have dropped the ball on this guy.

He's being tried in a military court.

Right. Not sure what you mean, though. The military tries cases of military criminals. There's still an investigation and attorneys involved. You don't want evidence being leaked that could give a defense attorney a reason for a mistrial.

Right... we don't live in real life. Everyone is evil and no one is to be trusted....

I don't care who dropped the ball. Someone did. Doesn't change my opinion that it was a tragedy.

Was it premeditated, calculated etc?
ABSOLUTELY!

That does not mean terrorism, at least not in my book.

Should it mean that the army needs to un-PC, no one of Muslim faith can be in the army?

You know what I mean. There is a lot of gray area that can be looked at.
No one dies if you or I are wrong. The people you trust to keep your loved ones alive do not have that luxury. They have to question everything. They also have to profile, like it or not.

Sleeper cell.....

Unfortunately for you, this vague Document in Washington that the last Administration tried to burn and throw out the window doesn't allow for it. That's also the same Document the honorable men and women in uniform are risking their lives to protect.

I'm willing to bet you wouldn't make a statement like that if you were a black man, instead of white. As I mentioned to Asswipe in the other thread, a lot of Muslims have given their lives to protect this country.

can't you picture JD sitting there on his couch with his hands over his ears? chanting.... LA-LA-LA-LA...I can't hear you...IT WAS NOT TERRORISM!!....LA-LA-LA-LA.....:rotf2:

You can't live in a culture of paranoia. The military is a high amplitude environment and as such monitors their people differently than most business would. Certainly he looks to have displayed warning signs that should have impacted his deployment orders.

That might be true at the moment, but I'd also add that the vast majority of Muslim terrorism kills other Muslims. In the end, people do what they do, it doesn't matter what their religion.

No, I wouldn't.

-spence

The investigation should seek to determine the motive as it would in any criminal case involving such a terrible crime. If there is credible evidence of terrorism then it shouldn't be hidden, but that's a conclusion for a judge based on law.

-spence

How many people crack and shoot up their workplace? For all you know this was no different.

You are aware he worked for the US Army don't you?

-spence

Any expert on al Qaeda will tell you their strategy is to provoke the United States, who they believe will lash out like a cowboy, into rampantly attacking the Muslim world and validate their assertion that the US is out to destroy Islam. Muslims, by their very fabric are drawn towards (even commanded to) protect the faith.

They also hope they can turn Americans against themselves, so that we compromise the foundational values that have made us so great and a beacon of inspiration for most of the world. If there's no leadership to defend free people under the rule of man's law then perhaps they have their opening and can challenge with a fundamentalist vision.

The last time I checked we assumed innocence until being proven guilty. It's supposed to be part of the "enlightenment" that separates US vs THEM.

You sir, are playing right into their hand.

-spence

That my friend is awesome!

It is the view of al Qaeda. The key fact is that it's not the same vision shared by the hundreds of millions of Muslims around the world.

The more news I see about Hasan the more he looks to be the classic criminal killer and not the terrorist.

-spence

It is the Major's view!!!

In any criminal investigation, the prosecution should play thngs close to the vest. Leaking information can damage a case. My supposition is that the Army investigators may know a lot more than they are letting on at this point. They would not come out right off the bat when things are still fresh and emotions are high and label it as terrorism even if they think it may be.

You really don't know a lot about Islam do you?

-spence

I thought you were talking about al Qaeda . I try not to lump all Muslims in that group.

sounds like you are admitting that this was Al Qaeda sponsored terrorism...except the part about Hasan possibly being innocent...that's f'ed up...

what the hell does "lash out like a cowboy " mean ?

I'm playing right into Al Qaeda's hand? Do you ever step back and think about how stupid something like that is when you say it ?......I'm playing right into Al Qaeda's hand....you need professional help:rotf2:

seems to me the dumbass that can't mutter the word terrorism without wetting his panties is actually who would be playing into Al Qaeda's hands:uhuh:

Wow, this is a weak post.

-spence

Most experts agree that you just make it up as you go along :uhuh:

I would agree, there maybe a lot more tied to this incident that they are looking into which could disrupt other plots if it truly is terrorism.
But if they find it is terrorism in the end, it will be the first domestic terrorism since 9/11 and under Obama's watch.

I'll bet you nearly wet yourself typing that.

-spence

Ya, that and the fact that i've been accused of "undermining the mission" get's me all excited. :rolleyes:

To use a Spenceism, your statements are is so silly. :hihi:

No kidding. This guy was in the armed services for 3+ separate administrations, but one guy losing his mind means that Obama isn't doing his job.

His statement is on par with the idiots that say 9/11 was Bush's fault.