I cant understand why on earth anybody would want a slot limit and think that it is a good thing. They did it here in NJ for a few years and wiped out a generation of resident fish. Didnt work, its gone but the damage is done. Anybody was able to go out in the early spring and clam up a 100 or so Slot fish. it was amazing how much that changed in a year and then two. You had headboats from NY and NJ with 60-80 people on em pounding on these fish, then charter boats, and rec guys. Every boat in the bay was anchoring up and clamming and then chunking when the bunker arrived. Slot fish dont promote catch and realease, people catching slots are killing and eating em. Means alot more people killing...Raritan bay is now like the dead sea All those resident fish are wiped out. People up in New england cant imagine what pressure there is here. Makes mass commercial look like me surfcasting block...... Here we have the most densly populated area and you cant imagine the pressure on fish. Thats OK though, because now that the bay is dead we saved the bunker and the bunker made a huge comeback... They are up and down the NJ coast for miles. An easy bait supply is a good thing for our striped bass, I think much of the opposite. When everybody has easy access to bunker anybody could could go out and snag and drop. Pretty funny when you have Hundreds of boats and hundreds of "Surffishermen" snagging and dropping every single day. Headboats from Staten Island, Brooklyn, NY and NJ targeting the transitory fish moving up the coast. These are the Big fish. Well the fishery really has been getting worse and worse every year. Funny to see miles and miles of bunker schools with nothing on em. Things change alot in a year or two. I dont care what anybody says, numbers are down, way down and thats up the coast from North carolina to Maine. I know because I fish up and down the coast, areas that used to hold fish dont. No matter how you cut it there are fewer and fewer fish every season. I know how much harder and smarter I have to fish.... Mass Can be like NJ, put in a slot limit, Sell the commercial fishery out for a single dollar a fish and call it a bonus tag program with an endless supply of tags.Everyone I know gets bonus tags.... Guys going out 4 to a boat and keeping 16 fish a trip. Hell I know, I have clients come on my boat and do it all the time. In fact I kill way more fish a season here in NJ on my charters than I do in Mass. Commercial 2008 / 11,500lbs 18 days, 2009 / 8,600lbs 14 days.... I wont even write whats killed on my charters. In fact, I dont get any just catch and release trips. I know so many people that reuse those tags and so the reporting season is all BS, at least in Mass the commercial fishery is regulated. These people who say they are trying to save the striped bass fishery really have no clue, they are idiots. They Point the finger at Mass commercial, rhode island commercial. I bet more fish are killed in NJ April, May, June, October, November just poundage wise recreationally then Mass and Rhode Island combined Commercial and recreational. Who keeps tally on what is getting killed here. I dont have any catch reports to fill out here Charter wise or recreational. It all BS. Gotta love now how the shut the Fluke down, all the boats that were targeting fluke are now targeting stripers. Striped Bass donta stand a chance in the next few years. Guys should see the Damage is done in VA / NC in the winter when the whole Biomass is Concentrated. How that fishery fell of a cliff. Hey, Maybe we can get the eez opened up to 12 miles like VA is pushing since the inside fish are wiped... Its gonna be ugly in the next few years. Should just have a 1 fish limit at 36" OR Better like they did in the mratorioum. Mass commercial stayed open and look at the comeback the fish made.Get used to it being like buzzards bay in the summer, or the rhode Island Surf in October / November. How things have changed in short time. Sorry for the rambling... from our government down, people in charge who dont have a clue....

This is extremely legit. The bill has been sponsored for over a year and you are hearing about it now because it made it to committee. Once the committee decides it is worthy of a vote in the house it will be in fact a bill.

I have personally sent over 100 handwritten letters in support of this to the MA legislature and countless e-mails.

The commercial striped bass industry in Massachusetts is second in take only to Maryland. Eliminating the commercial market in MA and reducing the Rec take to one fish a day goes a long way in conserving the striped Bass. I am surprised this is news to everyone.

Stripers Forever is hardly an Elitist group. It is a group that is run by volunteers has and spends every dime it receives to conserve and protect the Striped Bass. To think the members of Stripers Forever are a bunch of Orvis Casting Land Rover Driving elitists is simply ignorant.

:uhuh: K.I.S.S.

And you have absolutley not a CLUE as to what the Rec take is state to state, NO CLUE whatsoever. Just blame it on the Mass com's....

Probably the same people that encouraged Bonus Tags... NJ the only State that has it. 3 Fish per man, day to day, every day! The hell with people that dont fish, only the people that fish for striped bass should be allowed to eat striped bass, (ELITEST). Would do lovely things for the black market of striped bass, just like tog down here in NJ / NY! And Bass!

Ken,

You make many valid points, but the Mass commercial is still a joke/free for all, IMO. Stopping commercial harvest in Mass is only one of the facets of this plan. Added benefits are the plethora of poachers who ply the RI and CT waters and sell their fish in Mass will have one less place to dump their catches. I regularly watch a couple divers from CT bring their gigantic "commercial" catches up to Mass every summer. Every one of their fish has a harpoon hole just behind the gill plate from where the fish were shot with a spear gun. I'm sure plenty of this stuff goes on but doesn't get on the public radar.

Like you pointed out, the "game fish" status in Jersey is a joke too as the powers that be simply pulled the rug out from under the commercial guys and handed the quota to the rec guys, which accomplished absolutley nothing but the continued slaughter of large fish. Should the same thing happen in Mass it will be a travesty.

I'm thinking better things are going to happen going forward simply because the gamefish status and one fish per day limit does make sense provided we get everyone on board.
Provided there's an abundance of slot sized fish available that would be protected, the slot makes sense too provided everyone gets on board with it.

If the plan does work out, it will result in every user group taking less, not just the comms.

My understanding is that eliminating the Commercial Season in MA will only allow for that tonnage of fish to be distributed to other states. Where exactly is the net gain for the Striped Bass?

Selfishly, it will be nice not to have Comms cherry-picking the biggest fish around and being without the ones you sometimes encounter that act like they own the ocean (this is the minority though).

...:rotflmao:...:rotflmao:...:rotflmao:

Great way win friends and educate the Woefully Uninformed, there, Skippy...particularly on your 5th post...:hihi:

Careful Crafty
his middle initial stands for bad

Well said!!
 

Sandman,


Couldn't agree more about the fishing on MV. The use (I mean abuse) of the baitfish is huge too. We want to nurture the SB fishery, we better start thinking about their forage or the increasing lack of it.

Don'y know much about the bill, but I hope it passes.

Curious point, but it is my understanding that the CT legislature just voted to allow some percentage of unused quota from 1 year to roll over to the next for the Comms. Here's the perplexing bit, CT has no Comm fishery so they voted to let our neighbors to catch more of our fish. Can't really see how this benefits CT fishermen. Idiots...

Fair winds

ab

Wow, First I've heard of this. It's about time!

Sets an example for other states to follow. Seems like all the remaining comm states are dancing around a pool of cold water and afraid to be the first to dip their toe in.

Lowering the size limit to 20" is a measure to reduce release mortality. Won't work, but at least they're trying

John, that does proect the fish you're suggesting we protect

Nurture the SB fishery??? Why not just put everything on Gamefish status, catch and release only??? Put it on tuna, all species. Why make Striped bass so special?? Kind of selfish to have no com fishing, however rec guys can kill their catch??? Maybe have increases in Rec licenses??? CT went from $10 to $60 per person... VA went to $50.00 per person, no more buying a boat license unless your a resident... I know I have to pay $1260.00 in licenses just to be legal... Theres alot more water than just Gay Head... 60 boats is a blessing, should come down to fish NJ / NY Harbor! Just because there are 60 boats out there doesnt mean everyone is catching, theres alot more to it....

Biggest problem I see with the commercial fishery is that the guys who are good are trained assassins. They can hover over a body of big fish and do some real damage. Bodies of fish are vulnerable to being wiped out if the fleet anchors up over their heads. If these guys take their 30 fish from a pod of 100, that's a third of a migrating or resident pod of fish that has likely been programmed (genetically) to run a certain route, breed a certain river. Take a third away--that's bad enough--but what about when the other 15 boats within binocular range come motoring over to drop their yo-yo's how many are left then?

I've seen some great hauls come into the commercial place near my house---seen many 50's and a 64 there. But they don't hold a candle to the thousands of 30's I've seen stiff and covered with crushed ice. It really does need to stop.

We should not support the Striper Cup either though... that list of pin winner is like Schindlers List for striped bass

A high percentage of the commercial guys DO NOT NEED TO BE FISHING TO SUSTAIN THEMSELVES ANYWAY. It's a double-paid vacation for them.

If we are to keep the commercial fishery alive, you should have to prove that commercial fishing makes up more that 50% of your yearly income.

-Dave

I would probably say that too if I was as good as you are at targeting trophy bass. I'm sure selling them makes up a good chunk of your fun money.

It does, provided there's enough fish passing through the slot size, which depends on what was born in previous years. If you get a large year class of fish born it makes sense to me the managers would have to anticipate the age/length and implement the slot accordingly for it to provide any real benefit.

If a 28"-40" slot gets implemented but the fish are all either too big/too small its a wasted effort. The slot also has to coincide with good year classes of fish in order to provide the highest yield of protected breeders.

We stay the course there might be a lot less as you stated earlier, no??

Righth there with ya. Look at the year classes though, this would protect the 2001 class which was the biggest ever recorded.

-Dave

Patrick, I agree the marine fisheries should not be told what to do by the senate and congress from this whacked state of ours. If this bill has legs like you say, I have a question. Is anyone else filing a bill to counter this so it can't happen? head them off at the pass so to speak. :huh:

Sounds like a bunch of ill-informed people trying to do what they think is right and as usual, mankind will interfere with nature and throw the balance out like has already happened. I am against killing small fish
1 per day at 36" would be fine with me coastwide.


Canalman, the bass on the banks of the canal on last Memorial day was more than any week of mass. comm season I bet. I don't like to see large breeders going to be sold either, but that bill has many flaws if you ask me.

Cowhunter, I hope it never comes to how it is now in jersey.
The government needs money to operate and they are going to look in any place they can find it. we all have to fight.

Yes, certainly aware of the effort having been made and certainly aware that it was going in - this was the first I saw of it coming out.

The commercial bass industry in Mass may take second to Maryland but the rec take up and down the coats is tremendous and way overshadows the commercial take. IMO, we need to focus more to reduce the size taken out of the pie to protect the fish, than to decide who's piece is how big.

We really should be having these groups working on what the pie eats. Anything that just reallocates to another usergroup (or state) is really politics and not in the interest of the fish.

I don't commercial fish, I have not, I don't now, and unless there is a massive overpopulation in the future (yeh right) I probably won't then. I do release 99% of what I catch.

I don't fall in line behind SF because I don't think it is the right fight, Rovers, Orvis, or not - and I don't think I have ever said that and if I have - not in a long time, while sober, or being even remotely serious about fisheries management.

Nope people don't know, and that poorly pushed through fed license is probably going to help refine those numbers. but who is this directed to??


He lives :rotf2:

Somewhat. It would be nice to be able to go and protect specific year classes or even define based on guestimate of male to female, and 50 other factors, but there is enough problems getting people to know who much they can legal take when it is one or two fish. A slot would be harder (and worth it IMO). A variable slot could be better in fantasy land but it would never work.



Agree 70%



:btu:

2001 - was the biggest this decade and in top 3 overall. And purely anecdotal, the first major spawn of the 93 year class. Have anything to do with it? Dunno. Not in fisheries management. Then next year sucked but IIRC that was a bad drought year or flood year screwing up the spawn.

I think Cowhunter is a guy I could drink a beer with.

Cowman you are 100 percent correct no one has any iota of a clue what the Rec take is at this point in time. The Rec Catch that is reported is total catch including fish that are released to fight another day.

The new regs will only allow one fish to be taken per day. Which will further limit the recreational catch.

The MA comm season is in no way tightly regulated. The catch is under reported there is always fish being sold under the radar. Why is it that a large portion of commercial tags go unfilled every year? Do these people not use their license? The Registration is a joke.

Canalman, you think all the fish are caught commercially yo-yo'ng??? You are way off, I didnt see a single person yo-yoing in mass. whatever the comms catch thats legal goes in the boat and they are done as soon as the limit is hit. I did see alot of fish killed by the snag and drop down here in NJ / NY. They think they are doing good gut hooking and then releasing bleeding fish. Theres always plenty floating belly up. As sandman stated seeing 60 boats at Gayhead, I laugh at that beause you guys dont know how good you have it. There is no way everyone of them is coming in with limits... Less than 10 percent are. Most of those guys are camped out all day for a handfull of fish or they are guys scupping. If it were that easy everyone would do it. Mass is a HUGE state with alot of shoreline, theres many miles of ocean where 1 million LBS comes from. Recs kill WAY More fish. My problem is who is counting those fish. Nobody ever counted a single fish caught recreationally of mine nor did I have to report it, even chartering in NJ, Thats thousands of pounds a season and Im one guy, how about the thousands of other people? Guys should go fish off Rudy VA Dec - March, its like Gay head x 500 boats, 8-12 men a boat, 1-2 trips a day over the entire BIOMASS. That will be a thing of the past soon. I mentioned the license fees because if the comms dont pay there gonna miss the $$, theyll be raising the rec license fees substantially Im sure. started out at $10 and are up 5-6 times more in a year. Easiest money the government ever got! Lets keep raising for Obamanation!

JackBass, the Mass comm season is around 20 days! All you want to do is take the comm catch and give it to the rec guys who are complaining because there are less fish to catch. Might as well make it a catch and release fishery period then??
Mass reporting system is a joke? Let me tell you it is WAY better than what any state has. I get checked there more times in a week than I did in all the other states I fish combined in all my years! At least there is a reporting system. You will never have a rec reporting system, ever. You have absolutely no idea the damage done elsewhere by "rec" guys. More fish are sold black market here in NJ or NY than the entire Mass commercial season. Id bet anything on it!

I couldn't disagree more.

I fish comm in RI and pull an average 3-6K(since 2000) a year between bass, fluke, seabass, scup, blues, etc.. Provides pocket money for me all year that doesn't come out of my paycheck(which pays mortgage, bills, etc..) Probably couldn't afford to fish or do many other things with my family without the extra money I make fishing.

Every comm guy I know makes money some other way than fishing as well. If we're going to start banning people who don't make 50% of their living from one trade, why wouldn't we also bar comm fishermen from participating in any other trade in order to supplement income? There's very few guys making a living on fishing only. So to be fair, no carpentry, plumbing, landscaping, etc.. unless it's 50% or more of their income. That's a tremendously slippery slope to go down. People should be able to diversify their income sources as long as they have adequate skills to do so.

Double paid vacation? So what? What's wrong with making money doing something you love?

When you absolutely want the worse outcome of a situation.
Use completely diametrical points of view.
We are all screwed.
Really is a question of do we want to catch fish and/or keep fish and trust magic to replace them.
I have an easier time discussing string theory and quantum physics with Sweetwater.:scratch:

Ya I know...all the fisheries managers are liars or in someones pocket, comm guys are poaching crooks,......lets let stripers forever and a bunch of pol's decide what's best. :smash:

Seems to me if we just nuke NJ there will be enough fish for everyone else.

That's only because by the time string theory pops up, you're into the second bottle of Macallan and everything someone makes sense.

By the time we are waxing poetic about the universe, and the fate of man. You young ones are all tucked in. By the way scotch taste better when in deep discourse, fine cigar smoke swirling amid the stars.:buds:

Smoking is bad for you


Big Jay I'd buy the first round.

[QUOTE=#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&;728248]Smoking is bad for you


So are women I like, but I do it anyway.
Their collective nattering babble always in my ears like tinnitus.:uhoh:

I'm just curious,

How is the data derived for recreationally killed fish ?

No one I know has ever been asked what there take is.

So is it just an " educated " guess ?

IIRC they may send someone out with a notepad to ask you to volunteer for a survey as some fish location. I was once asked to do a survey 10 something years ago at the docks in Galilee the one time I went Cod fishing from there.
They also randomly call people to see if the fish, and then how so, and then get in to detail and hope you don't lie.

One of the goals of the "Federal License / Registry" is to generate significant lists to do the surveys.

Most of the recreational "take" is actually from catch and release calculations. Very sketchy at best. I think they use an 8 % number, but this is very water temp and hook location dependent (bait and J hooks is the worst).

A large percentage of the recreational take is also due to charter boats. Obviously these guys have better success than most amateurs, they also are far more likely to get surveyed by dockside monitors (since the charter guys are out everyday). I don't know for certain, but it wouldn't surprise me if the recreational catch rate is skewed based on over sampling of charter boats and using their success rate per hour fished as a guide to what others do.
I do know that for the harbors I am familiar with, the charter and commercial fishery accounts for a MUCH larger percentage of the fish landed than the rest of us recreational schmucks.

These fish population estimates also bother me. The numbers themselves are very soft (the head biologists admit the margin of error may be 50%). Yes, I know people claim there are plenty of fish, just that they are all offshore. To which I would say, "So what?". The ONLY population that matters to most fisherman are the fish they can access. THAT population is in dire straits, and long past the point where more protection is warranted.

For those of us in our 50's, what we have now is going to be the large fish we hope to target in the final 15-20 years of our fishing lives. That prospect is not very encouraging. I don't, therefore, care who feels they are being cheated......I want these fish protected and I don't care one bit if it takes the legislature to do it.

So in the real world. The rec numbers are pure fantasy.
I believe the far greater good is to make it a gamefish nation wide.
Say one a day at 40 inches.
The plusses outweigh the negatives.
The status quo is a joke, we can't be this stupid. . . . I take that back we can.:huh:

This will be my 20th post on this site. And since the quantity of your posts seem to be more important to some than the quality I will keep this short.

I believe giving "game fish" status to stripers will help the stock

I also believe a bigger issue is the dragging for menhaden. Take away the bait and the stripers go away as well. In addition to the taking of the bait the draggers also turn the ocean bottom into a barren desert. Depleting it of all plant and marine life

So "game fish" status is a start. There is still more to do

I want to know why people equate com fishing w/ fish sold under the radar.....I AM SICK OF THAT %$%$%$%$ TALK !! LETS TALK ABOUT CHARTER GUYS SELLING THEIR CATCH OUT OF STATE, DAY AFTER DAY.