it's simple economics... a 25" fish still has a chance to be eaten by Seals, tuna and other sea going fish eaters... a 39" fish is getting up there in size... good chance it wont be eaten by a seal or tuna.. also a good chance that it will live until it dies of old age or is eaten or mis handled by a fisherman...and to top it off the small ones are better eating with less waste when processed.

"I could care less about the commercials"

Funny I have been looking to pick up some tuna poppers...figured I'd spend my money locally. Suddenly changed my mind...I could care less about local plug makers.

Its ok...I don't make tuna poppers!:) I also do not curb my opinions to cater to folks! I have an opinion and I do not keep it in check because I might be afraid of hurting business!:cool: There are plenty of other builders out there.....don't be afraid to use them!

I see this as an arguement to leave the little fish alone...bottom line is that the little fish are roughly 75 % males that do get hammerred by seals etc (the percentage is debateable but it is definatey way aboe half male to half female)...to get the year class numbers over the past dozen years we have needed this ratio of males to females

This slot will kill a lot of those little fish and the seals etc will still eat what they eat rducing the mumbers even further. If the little fish are devastated so will the ratio of males to females causing future year classes to drop even mor without spawning...I don't state this...fisheries scientists state this

The speculation and guess work science being thrown around this board is the same that was done to Bob Pond when all the so called "high liners" were laughing at him and he was preaching the use of science.

Good science is not why SF is going to the legislature...the fact is they just can't get their junk by ASMFC.

For the record and because I am the only one on this board that actually has been attending the recent ASMFC Striped Bass meetings, there are multiple concerns with the SB stock and the scientists are at the end process of the analysis of certain problems as we..science based solutions that look like they will work work will be enacted as is written in the managment plan.

We need to set limits according to science and not guess work no matter how good pounding our chest makes any of us feel. Its nice to pound your chest and demand this or that but they did that with the slot limit in Maine and now a few years later they have no fish left. They kill all the bait and all the little fish on their coast and wonder what happenned. Sure let's blamit on ASMFC...Maine chose to harvest baby stripers not ASMFC.

If you really want to help then donate and support the organizations doing the real work at the places the work is really done

we all S/B concerned .. @ 1st I didn,t think it had a chance / but now with the backing of this wacked out other group & their issue of disposable lures & etc;
this //if pasted could start a ball rolling that for those that live long enough .......... ya won,t be back @ blue-gill fishing ;
I was going to say Golfing ...but then they will be going against damaging the grass & possiable damage to trees & ponds ;;

WTF /way too far :smash:

"Its ok...I don't make tuna poppers"
Through wired, wood plugs...I would have thought they would hold up to the tuna abuse...guess not huh! :devil2:

I certainly don't begrudge anyone their opinion and input...it's when someone tries to shove their opinion down everyone else's throat that I get a little.....upset.

I expressed my opinion and you took exception to it! I have further opinions about what I do not like about the commercial laws but I doubt you want to hear them! Have enough respect to respect someone's opinion whether you agree with it or not! I do!:uhuh: Then you drag out that other crap about plugs and "I am not gonna buy them from you"...because you don't like my opinion?? What the hell is that all about??!!

I hardly think "voicing" my opinion is "shoving my opinion down anyones throat"?!

I'm in favor of the bill.

Clearly drastic conservation measures need to be put in place before it's too late. All opposed haven't been paying attention or simply don't care or choose to look beyond their own selfish agendas and what's happening in their own backyard.

Mortality is a huge part of the picture and I'm for any measures taken with a plan to reduce it. Sounds like dropping the two fish per day limit to one and prohibiting commercial harvesting would be a step in the right direction.

Wait until the fishing falls off in MA like it has up here in Maine.

Some attribute that falling off to the slot limit in your state.

Are you serious? :doh:

BF...respect!!! "I could care less about the commercials" Read your own post before you start to get "high & mighty" with me!

I have not seen one bit of factual info. presented in this post by those opposed to the commercial SB fishery. Just a bunch of IMO's. Informed opinions or factual presentations...hardly...just a lot of "I know better" because I'm a self styled expert that knows more than...everyone I don't agree with.

As far as not buying your plugs...Since we're almost neighbors I have looked at your plugs recently and if you weren't closed for the season I would have already ordered a few as I'd rather support my local, fellow fishermen than send $50 overseas...but I don't give my $$ to PETA, HSUSA, or Stripers "For Us" and I won't be giving my $$ to any business that supports a "political end around" rather than professional fisheries management. Of course...that's just my opinion and like you, I don't curb my opinions either.

The bottom line is by the time they get around to having a public get together they have allready made up their collectives minds. I still hope those that support the bill go and get their way. But to be fair we ned to raise the minimum size back to 36" and everyone just gets one feeesh. They never go to a vote unless they no the outcome beforehand. None of the reps want to look like losers.

Whatever......your entire argument is pretty childish. When you take a discussion and make it personal....I will not entertain such childish antics. I do not think there should be a commercial striper fishery...is there a problem with that? I think you took my comment out of context and took it as a personal attack. We disagree......can't you respectfully disagree?

I'm would be in favor of dropping the catch to one fish @ 28", 34" or 36" -- whatever the science says is the right number to ensure the health of the species.

How anyone thinks the targeting of Baby Bass is going to help the species is absolutely beyond me.
Frankly, anyone taking or advocating the taking of 20" pre-spawn bass ought to be ashamed of themselves.

p.s. - I don't care how good they taste.

when maine went to slot limits, did it help or make things worse ?
i'm confused about this whole thing, i plan on going to the state house to hear both sides, i have a couple of freinds (state reps)on the natural resource commitee, i hope to get their ear before to see what they have to say.
something has to be done before it's to late.

It made it worse.

Maine's mortality numbers went up exponentially, and their fishing went into the toilet.

So now to solve their problem, they want to extend their failed system to Mass -- Great Plan.

i hear ya, taking 20'' fish makes no sense at all,

BF- Childish antics...Whatever...I guess when you have no valid arguement other than "IMO" you might as well try to deflect the discussion there. Here's the rub BF...this is very personal to me. I have been commercial fishing for stripers since the 1950's and nothing gets much more personal than someone taking $$ out of your pocket for their own selfish reasons. Now I read your "take,take take...kill, kill,kill" post so I figure you & most of the "anti's" are probably saying I'm just as selfish. Maybe...but here's the difference; I don't have the marine fisheries degree that would qualify me to be making the decisions so I let the pro's (not the pol's) make those decisions. They allow a quota fishery; I'm fishing..they don't, based on actual "best science" management, and I'm not. It's that simple.

"I do not think there should be a commercial striper fishery...is there a problem with that?"
Not at all; again your opinion...but since I don't think you have a PHD in Marine Fisheries, I don't think you are qualified to make that decision for everyone else. I posted somewhere else about the similarities between this SF bill to the Animal Rights agenda driven Question 1 we had shoved down our throats several years back. Big outside $$, fringe science and outright lies, demonize blood thirsty hunters ; then just convince an uneducated public to vote against the professional opinions of DF&W and virtually every other real conservation agency and voila!! We're up to our ears in beaver flooding problems, coyotes are everywhere and if not for the common sense of those making F&G Board appointments, we would have animal rights groups controling our Fish& Game Board. Now I guess an animal rights idiot would say the end justifies the means. Frankly, I can't believe that any sportsman would support this type of political influence peddling.

Do you possess a PHD in Marine Fisheries? Guess probably not so the fact that you fish commercially for money makes you MORE righteous in your opinion? My feeling is that the stock is overfished by the commercial sector Sokinwet and it needs to change or the stocks will once again be depleted! As was aid earlier "We will be doomed to repeat history". You do not like/respect my opinion because it flies in the face of your opinion so instead of discussing it like a rational person (which.....you obviously are not) you choose to stoop to getting personal and acting like a child by trying to attack what you know of me i.e the fact that I build and sell plugs. Are you going to be there Thursday fighting for what you believe?

BF - Unlike you, I realize my opinion is just that...my opinion. " I don't have the marine fisheries degree that would qualify me to be making the decisions so I let the pro's (not the pol's) make those decisions" Guess you didn't really read what I said...not a surprise.

As far as "my" childish, personal attacks...I believe I said I wouldn't be spending my money supporting a business that doesn't give a dam about fellow fisherman! But then again that's just the childish, not very rational side of me coming out...probably hard to understand you being such a stand up guy that would never stoop to personal attacks.

As far as being at the hearing; unfortunately I cannot attend due but be assured that I have contacted my rep and the members of the NR Committee.
PS Would you like me to tell you who your's is in case you feel like doing the same.

I was commenting on the fact that you also did not have a PHD....I most certainly read what you write. Man, your tone is just so harsh that I think you are in fact incapable of a mature discussion. I most certainly have respected your opinion without belittling you. You carry on though and happy fishing!:)

Hey Patrick, how many college degrees do you have?

Striped Bass are a highly migratory fish that go where the bait is. Maine is on the relative edge of their Northern range. If they didn't migrate from halfway down the coast to Maine and back every year, I'd agree with you, but I can't see how a slot in Maine is the sole reason their fishery has sucked as of late. Maybe Massachusetts having 2 @ 28" is why Maine's fishery sucks now. Fewer fish making it past the gauntlet.

I'd really like to see some actual evidence anywhere that goes one way or the other for/against the slot - not "I called a guy I know" or "their fishing sucks. they have a slot. so the slot must be why the fishing sucks."

Anyone know if these people @ Stripers Forever look to get the R.I season closed down also ?

I agree with this especially when you realize that in much of Virginia and Maryland (the bay and river areas) the size limit is 18"-28". In these areas there is a huge number of fisherman and and they have no idea or belief in catch and release. I would bet they kill more fish in a weekend than Maine killed in it's best year.

I would ask that if a fishery is at a point where you limit the general public to only 2 fish a day, why is it acceptable to have a commercial fishery. Not saying I want to see the limits increased.

I would guess that it is because there are exponentially more recs than comms and it *should* be relatively easy to track and limit the take by the comms.

Recs are pretty much unregulated in how much they can take outside of the daily bag limits and the season is open year round (even though the fish aren't really here year round).

I think its just a matter of time before they spread their agenda up and down the Coast.....

Maine bass problem
 

I dont want to put lighter fluid on a wild fire but, the problems in Maine (the lack of fish) are not caused by the slot limit. I just finished #^&#^&#^&#^& Russels Striper Wars and the problem is that the fish that migrate to Maine are for the most part Chesapeake fish. The problem is that the chesapeake is in bad shape. Look at the young of the year indexes look at the destruction of the menhaden population that filters the waters of the bay and provides food for the bass. Huge portions of the bay are dead zones. The problems with the bass in maine are not related to the slot limits. The real problems with the bass are not so simple to put a finger on. That being stated I still am in favor of making bass a non commercial species. I hope they win at the state house.

This is the point often missed. Many people are looking at this as just a Mass issue. SF is trying to get two or three of the states that allow commercial fishing to stop. If they got three states to stop then the ASMFC would have a much stronger recreational lean. Hoping that in the end this would lead to a more conservative approach by the board. SF is concentrating there efforts in the Northeast because they know the people up here are more open and concerned about protecting the fish, as compared to Virginia.

This has been my exact point all along. People are quick to say that Maine's fishing sucks because they have a slot, but there appears to be little evidence to back either position - maybe it has, maybe it hasn't but there is no way to tell.

Correlation does not prove causation.

Good. I hope this helps push an eventual coast-wide gamefish status for the Striped Bass. As Makai stated, some studies are showing that women and children shouldn't eat it anyway.

Sums up the opponent's side of the argument. Otherwise, nothing he states is really supported.

I agree with his statements about pollution in the Chesapeake and with regards to protecting the bait. Otherwise, his only arguments against the bill is that commercial fisherman won't make money on the fish and the commercial quota will be redistributed to the recreational fisherman, which doesn't make any sense since the recreational take is so poorly tracked.

Gamefish status is the way to go.

Hopefully some of you are going to this today, I can't make it due to work.

As shattered as opinions are in this thread and in the angling community, we're screwed in the long run because we will be divided into pieces and consumed in those pieces.

Some People just dont get it.... If an extremist FlyFishing group like stripers Forever could band together and totally close the commercial fishery down in Mass because the fishing sucks in maine is really unbelievable... I would love to see some PETA Seal loving group band 3 bus loads together and shut downthe entire Cape Beaches from Race Point to Chatham just so the Seals can be unbothered and Happy. What the hell is the difference? The closings of entire areas can be next, just because its done offshore doesnt mean it wont get done on the surf. Hell they are trying to do it down certain beaches here in NJ due to the "Animal-Like" behevior of certain people fishing the beaches, the trash, fish racks, etc... I love how NJ is a "Green" Gamefish state according to StripersForever but they kill more fish than probably a combination of states with the regular rec catch and the 360,000 lb bonus AKA BS Commercial Quota...
There have been seasonal weather and bait pattern changes that I am sure affected Maine..... Maine is on the upper end of the northern migrational Patterns as is North Carolina to the south. Look at North Carolina this year, somehow I dont think they will get much or any of the Commercial Quota filled because the ocean temp is the coldest its been in year 41, and the bait and the fish have move well outside of three miles and will probably stay there along with the many other bodies. Its probably been a decade since surfcasters had a good shot at them down there. Hell I remember running down there in the late 90's and chasing those fish down the beach from Duck, Kitty Hawk to hatteras... The Bait was inshore so is the fish. I remember walking down to the mouth of the saco river years back, surfcasting at night... My wife caught her first Maine Striper there. The amount of bait at the river mouth was unbelievable. Alot of the bait has moved offshore so have the bass, just a fact, look at Stelwagon, gulf of maine. Why come inshore and scrap for crusteceans??? That cant sustain those big bodies of fish, thats why they show with the Herring runs, Mullet runs, Bunker runs, Mackeral and squid....
Here off NJ Ive been fishing 2-3 miles offshore with my charters, mostly by myself... Hell I even filmed a tv show there this past June which I put up on my FB page. It will air sometime this month... Gotta see the bites I get there, by myself....Where is land? Where are the boats?
Some people hate the thought of commercial fisherman. They are on the Extremist Side that feels Striped Bass should be a gamefish, no one should be allowed to kill one, (Unless of course they want a 20" slot), and the fish should be there to provide catch and release pleasure like a child going to the park.....
On the other end of the spectrum we have the Diehard Commercial Guy....Kill everything by any means necassary until there is nothing left and make lots of $$$ on it! Mindless barbarians that think Fish are an unlimited resource....
I would hope that we all on this board were a median having respect for both commercial and rec, because we both do need to coexist and work together to preserve a fishery that we mutually want to be healthy for us, our kids, grand kids and so on.
I whole Heartedly agree with what John R Said, We are screwed in the Long run because we will be divided in pieces and consumed in those pieces....

hear, hear....

I've already stated my thoughts on this subject, but mark my words on what I am about to say.... If this bill passes it will pass because massachussetts wants to insure that they are doing their part to protect a valuable resource- income from saltwater fishing liscense. The low fee thus year will go up... Watch. But the rub is that they and other states who realize they can capitalize off of this have to make sure there I a reason to buy one...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Saltwater license is coming anyway... Lets see who has saltwater licenses NC, VA, MD, DE, CT, NY.... Who is left NJ, RI, MA??? You know that wont last...CT went up 300% since 09 for Non Res..Charter licenses went up from $200-$400 in both NY and CT.

I hear some welfare organization is banding together and heading up from NY to Mass to push a bill for a saltwater license, if recreational anglers can go out and have "Fun" catching striped bass they should pay for it and give the money to the less fortunate! ;-))

I don't see this bill passing in its current form. SF is asking for too much too quick. It may pass over time in smaller chunks, beginning with a one fish per day limit, then size change, then commercial ban. I say its a no go and more of a publicity stunt to garner attention and support for the next assault.

I wouldn't call them extremist, but they certainly have a self serving agenda. I have to believe the legislature is going to take the same view and tell them to stuff it.

I get it. And Pew gets it, too. When fishermen fail to reign in their overuse of the resource they only further demonstrate their inability to be objective stewards of the environment we (the entire public) share. That greatly strengthens Pew's position.

Being "right" and having a lot of money and a unified focus means Pew is soon going to be calling the shots. That will mean MPSs. The places that make the most sense for Marine Protected Sanctuaries are Stellwagen (already a protected area of sorts), the outer Cape (off the National seashore), and Nomans...(already a wildlife reserve). Of course there will also be shore areas that become off limits.

This bill will fail, and all of us will eventually suffer for it. If you like to fish for striped bass.....not make a living from them (as valid a use as that is).....gamefish status and greatly reduced recreational take was your best hope.