You state, as fact, that the quota is the reason the factory had to close, and that the quota is putting fishermen out of business.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but, the quota set in 2004 was 180,000 metric tons and has now been decreased to 91,000 metric tons.
According to statistics *From the State of Maine*:
Year Metric Tons Landed
2006 43367
2007 32935
2008 30048
http://www.maine.gov/dmr/commercialf...erring.tbl.pdf

So, explain to me where the issue is?

Also, bottom and midwater trawlers are a disgusting practice that should be completely banned. You want to complain about a group that has cost fishermen jobs - in addition to lowering the price of fish and wreaking havoc on the ecosystem all without regard for the fish and only for their wallet, you can start there.

speaking of spin
 

Information from the fishery??? If it's so clean, why have you guys been fighting like hell for years to keep the observers off the boats? Or that nifty little trick you boys like - when there's an observer on one boat, you guys just pair trawl and then the other boat hauls back every time? Oh wait, it's for safety sake that you can just dump your cod end without taking it aboard when its loaded to the gills with haddock. That's right - it's bycatch if it hits the deck, but if you just dump a few metric tons of dead groundfish, its not "by-catch"

And the crowning glory - when there's 6 miles of DEAD FLOATING STRIPERS in the Great South Channel when you boys are busy destroying the fall tuna fishery - that's not discard, b/c you didn't out them on your boat.

And as for the plant closing, while I feel for the men that lost their jobs, - stop exporting the herring on that big freaking freighter that loads at norpel in NB and keep some product for the domestic cannery market. Its not the regs that closed you down - you got a better price overseas and F'd your workers.

Spin on that.

:musc:Well...it didnt take the well funded mwt fleet long to find this thread. :hidin:

I wonder what meherring gets paid to hop on the internet...Welcome :cputin:

I wonder if meherring is the lobbiest that is always talking about how to fix river herring we need to increase the striped bass quota :screwy:

OR is he the dc laywer that is bold enough to admit he is trying to get loopholes in the management plan :wall:

OR maybe he is the plant manager who after giving the speach about being an industry "on our knees" gets in his 50K 2009 Toyota Sequoia :sspam:

OR the employee that likes to yell at people and try an intimidate them outside the hotels :musc:

Let's see what's will you say next...oh...I know...:bs:

The crime here is that your greedy industry is using the tragedy of this plant to push your agenda. Why is your press agent not pushing the positive effort to flip the plant into somehting more reliable :huh:

All you want the press to cover is the quota reduction...:yak5:

The only guilt I feel is that I walked away for a while after we formed CHOIR and we failed at preventing your damage from going as far as it has and for that I feel guily:deadhorse:

Hop on one of your vessels and sail off to your next MSC certified fishery that you are going to ruin. Go kill a whale or dump a bag of the wrong size herring or river herring or haddock over the side since that is what you truely do best.:bshake:

my female has a v notch, if yours doesn't u should return it as faulty

ditto

hear, hear........

your father is right

yeah!!!!!

ouch!

i love this thread!

MM....You need to learn how to Multi-Quote...:hihi:

huh? wat that? u luky i use commputter.

just trying to get my number of posts to 10,000 so i can be somebody :biglaugh:

Just use the little "+" button next to the quote button. you select all the posts you want to quote then hit the Quote button on the last one. that way it puts them all in the same post like I just did with both of yours.

Then you can comment on each one......and you got a loooooong way to go to catch Bigfish in the Post count :hee:

Missing the Point
 

You all are missing the point, the plant closing is not related to midwater trawling. Bumble Bee clearly stated that they will close because the reduced quota in the inshore GOM is not sufficient for them to be viable. While the State of Maine numbers appear to be correct, the federal area quotas are the ones to look at.

Inshore GOM:
2006 - 60,000 mt
2007 - 50,000 mt
2008 - 45,000 mt
2009 - 45,000 mt
2010 - 26,546 mt

These fish have been supplied to the plant during the summer/fall season by purse seiners. The quota was drastically cut even though the science says the stock is stable, because of campaigns by the Pew, etc people.

The Norpel plant has nothing to do with this, nor does their fish caught in the winter and shipped oversees. It has to do with available quota in the GOM.

As for all the accusations about midwater trawling, there is no factual information to support the allegations. The fishery has bycatch, but when compared to others in the region it is a clean fishery. There is no factual information to support the striper bycatch in the Channel. In fact, the MA DMF investigated through VMS and found there where no herring boats in the area, but lets not let the facts get in the way.

All the sensational rhetoric "greedy, etc" does not overcome the facts.

The bottom line here is the plant has closed, 140 people have lost there jobs, and these campaigns attacking the fishery have devasted the Maine herring fishery. And as I said before, Patrick, you and your like, should look in the mirror. While the entire outcome can't be laid at anyones feet, you have had a hand in it.

I come from a Maine fishing family, I am not a lawyer, lobbiest or plant manager and don't have a press agent. I also don't plan on spending time arguing here with people who rely on internet forums for their information. Try reading something factual for a change at nefmc.org

No, *you're* missing the point and then spinning your position as it's proven wrong and scientifically inaccurate.

If the Maine numbers appear correct, and the federal area quotas are the ones to look at, then why does your post and all the sob stories harp on Maine "decreasing the quota in half"?

Must've been an unreported oil spill or other disaster that caused miles of belly up stripers. Exactly what other fishery are you referring to that midwater trawling is "a clean fishery" relative to?
YouTube - DEAD STRIPERS OFF NEW ENGLAND - WHO DID THIS?

It has been working great for me. I did not realize that during "Mission Accomplished" jobs previously sent offshore came back to the US. Please enlighten us.

Production at Maine canneries has been sliding since peaking at 384 million cans in 1950. Faced with declining demand and a changing business climate, the plants went by the wayside one by one until, five years ago, the Stinson plant was the last one standing.

Quit being a tool and trying to politicize a dying business.

I always find it amusing when the midwater lobby tries to paint those of us interested in seeing our forage fisheries managed sustainably as some of out of touch environmentalists.


You're kidding right?

The Maine fishermen have been some of the strongest folks leading the charge to bring some sanity to the sea herring fishery since the Midwater boats came.

Are you sure that you have attended all meetings on this issue as you mentioned, MEherring? When did you start? You know it doesn't help to attend these meetings if you don't pay attention.

Poor chum. Here, let me help you. Take a listen to the following audio clip from a September 2006 NEFMC meeting. It is only 5 minutes. Pay attention, now, and realize just how out of touch you really are.

http://www.fishtalk.org/rc/nefmc/ful...0928/t3/s3.m3u

MEherring in case you missed it Steve Weiner, the chairman of Choir, is the commercial tuna fisherman who spoke in that above audio clip. He is a Maine fisherman. Also note that the Maine Lobstermen's Association supported CHOIR's positions as well. Might I suggest you try expanding your circle of friends in the Maine fishing community.

I could introduce you to some at the next NEFMC meeting if you like.

Hope this helps.

Mike Flaherty
Wareham, MA

People in glass houses...
 

You're funny, MEherring.

Big Steaming Pile of BullSh#t
 

Sure you aren't a lobbyist for the midwaters....

The Midwater boats completely and absolutely screwed up the traditional maine seiner and weir fishery and those guys hate you too.

Now way in hell anyone associated with the traditional seiners is going to defend your pair-trawlers.

Nice Try. You put those men out of their jobs, quit trying to spin it.

No one here is that stupid.

Mike proved my point for me
 

Gee Mike - now you've made it easy.

Your letter and Steve's testimony clearly advocate for the reduction in the inshore TAC. Steve talks of a crashed stock and suggests that there may even be a need to close the fishery, but we can't do that because of lobstermen. He chastises Dr. Pierce for considering the economic impact to the herring industry and states the economic impact to him and others is more important. Real nice - we should all be more concerned for Steve in his ocean front home in Kennebunk and a fancy tuna boat than we should be for those 140 people in Prospect.

Steve claims to speak for many, but I doubt the numbers are what he portrays. The MLA is not a supporter of CHOIR and in fact asked to be removed from the CHOIR web site when they found they were listed. The few commercial Maine fishermen that jumped on this bandwagon feeld quite burned and the few that remain are mostly underwritten by PEW-Earth Justice - not hardly a ground swell.

And for all of your denigrating midwater trawls, that's not even the issue here. This is about the summer purse seine fishery and the cannery. The seine boats have gone from approx. 80 landing days in 2006 to approx 28 landing days (during the PS only period June-Sept 31) in 2009. All this under the recommended TAC reductions by you and others. All this with no clear science or assessment for the GOM herring population. Your goal was clear - you hate the big boats, but you also didn't care about who else got thrown under the bus.

As for your article, its all heresay, you weren't even there. I could do the same and offer the opposite opinion, but I won't.

The work of you and your friends as devastated the Maine herring fishery - midwater trawlers, purse seiners, cannery workers and not very helpful to lobstermen either. It also may prove to be a very bad ecosystem choice for us all as the lobster industry tries to replace about 30,000 mt of bait with products from the West Coast, Europe, ect - where ever they can get it.

As for going to meetings, I've been to quite a few - but I didn't see you. No, your at home listening to your tapes - really clued in. Have you ever been herring fishing? Ever been to Prosepct Harbor?

"For options that reduce landings, there would be revenue losses to herring processors and impacts on processing plant employees. The cannery in Maine is particularly vulnerable to options that significantly reduce the Area 1A TAC since the cannery has traditionally been dependant on that area in the summer. Reductions in available
herring, highly variable landings, and increased cost of herring will make it difficult for the cannery to continue to produce canned herring at a profit and keep employees working"
NEFMC - A Herring Specs 2010-2012

Try looking in the mirror Mike and think about the 140 people that lost their jobs in eastern rural Maine. It impacts the whole community; the corner store, gas station, the tax base and the local school. All now being shored up by unemploment payments. You really should visit!

To say nothing of the last US cannery closing and an industry lost.

Sleep well Mike

The difference between your posts and the people you disagree with is that they present a point and you basically just say, "no you're wrong, look in the mirror. I don't know how you sleep at night" and then spin into some other topic.

You harp that the decrease of quotas (that's what this is all about, right?) is what caused the cannery to go under, yet don't provide any proof for it other than hearsay from meetings. On the other hand, there have been numerous references to people *from the sardine industry* that have stated that demand for sardines is in the toilet.

Also, you continue to ignore my point that according to the State of Maine, the historical commercial landings have been consistently and significantly below what the new quota has been set to. Again, isn't that what this is all about, the decreased quota in Maine???

This is my favorite of your comments:
So you're telling us that the decreased quota which was never met has "devastated the Maine herring fishery". And on top of that, all the extra bait that could potentially be off the coast of Maine (which wasn't being caught any way) "may prove to be a very bad ecosystem choice for us" as lobstermen get bait for other, potentially more sustainable areas? How exactly?

MEHerring

If you are so concerned about the smaller local fishermen will we see you support the ASMFC Addendum being pushed by NH to loosen the days out rules for the small boats so that they are not dominated by your industrial fleet?

On another point, tell me, if there is not enough Herring to supply this plant then why all the effort to make sure we have a full set of regulations for carrier vessels that can take Herring from a Pair Trawl at sea and land it in a variety of locations including Canada...hey...Canada still has Sardine Plants doesn't it...wait for it...greed and profit is all your kill it all, sell what you can and dump the rest industry cares about.

Come on now...let get honest...if the money paid to the plant workers at Bumble Bee was the same money paid to the foreigners at the Norpel we might not be talking. It's all about the profit...right.

In all fairness I should tell you that as we move forward with Am 5 every time the council is talking about River Herring and you blame it on Striped Bass...each and every time you say the words "Striped Bass" I say the words ..."Dead Whale". How many did you kill this year sailor.

As I have said all along it is a real shame about the 140 persons. I hope instead of playing on the internet or running to Canada to set up the next country whose fisheries you are going to decimate, at least some of you connected industrial type folks are convincing the LL Bean Lady or Ohara or someone to flip the plant into a Lobster processing facility and give those 140 (average age over 50 by the way) people and those to come after them some longer term job security. Your State just passed a bill within the last week to allow Lobstrs to be sold as processed. A new product that people actually want is now allowed in Maine and there is a worldwide market. Please tell me your goignto use your influence to help them because playing here in the internet with us is not goign to accomplish anything.

As a matter of fact I should send you a thank you note for keeping a political discussion going on a recreational board the week the Striper are arriving...you can do what I can not. Let's keep arguing so more of my recreaitonal brothers learn about your nasty nasty industy.

Your serve

My goodness, where to begin.


MEherring, did you happen to notice I quoted those who were there. You really need to pay more attention. These are your fellow commercial fishermen that you and your friends screwed over. You know it, I know it, and all of the non-herring commercial fishermen in New England know it. No amount of spin from you will ever change that. FACT: Midwater pair trawling for herring in New England created CHOIR.


Wow! And I mean WOW!!

Did it ever occur to you that the midwater pair trawlers are simply not compatitble for the New England region? There is a reason why they had to bring these boats over from Europe and the west cost of the United states. As was mentioned by previous folks, there was never a problem with herring before the MWTs. Ooops, I forgot. The Russians devastated the stock first. After the US booted them from the EEZ, you were later allowed to make that same mistake. Great company you have there.


I said they have "supported CHOIR's positions". Pay attention. Do you disagree that MLA supported the so-called "buffer zone" like virtually everyone except the midwater herring lobby?


Obviously if landings are reduced it will impact processors.

Shhh. I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Don't tell anyone. We'll keep this between you and I. The trick is not bending to industry pressure to allow things to get so out of hand that reductions are inevitable. It's called pay it now or pay it later, MEherring.

In other words, had the MWTs never been promoted (yes promoted) by the state directors in the first place, then the TAC in the inshore Gulf of Maine would still be at 60,000 mt as it had beeen for sooooo long before they showed up.

Did you ever hear herring described as "the rice of the sea"? I learned that from a commercial fisherman. Everything changed when the MWTs impacted this region. Everything!

Think about that for a moment and imagine what your friends in Prospect harbor could be doing now with 60,000 metric tons of SUSTAINABLE harvest without pair trawlers.


Sleep well, yourself. There is a reason why you don't give your name.

LOL Tha shame of it all is that as we argue there are still no steps being made to stop the foreign deep water boats from China,Japan,Spain,Russia,France,Brazil,Argentina,a frican nations and so on from raping the ocean with in eye sight of our comercial boats that have to go by all these rules that are made for them.Show me one foreign boat that doesn't go by the same rules we enforce on our fisheries that is held accountable. My point isn't about the rules ,the herring,net sizes of number of fishing days allowed. It's the unfair advantage given to these foreign fleets as they take the fish home can or process them and then sell them on our markets at the expense of our economy so that some poleticians can put more money in their pocets.