MRMACEY,

I don't support Saddam Hussein, I support the right of the country of Iraq to conduct its affairs without the interference of the United States.

If Saddam is such a menace why did we support him before the first Gulf War.
If Saddam is such a menace why haven't we taken him out of power? We have certainly had a chance.
The only conclusion that I can reach is that this war has little to do wth Saddam Hussein.

lets blow them up, take thier oil and use it here and sell gas for 25 cents a gallon.
then send them all to france and make the dump a state
:D

The French and Iraqis have a thing going.

Cheese for oil.

:laughs:

BM,

wouldn't bombing Iraq and taking their oil make us the bad guys?

I have to say, all this talk of war and seeing tv footage of our soldiers saying tearful goodbyes to their families is taking some of the wind out of my fishing sails. As much as I love to fish, it kind of makes me feel trivial when others are putting their lives on the line on our behalf.

-WW :smash: :(

JohnR,

Thank you very much for the intelligent reply.
It is the lack of reasoned discussion about this war that makes me the most worried.

If our goal is to stop terrorism and foreign military action against the United States, it doesn't make sense to attack Iraq.

Attacking Iraq will definitely increase Islamic fundamentalist terrorism against the United States and its allies.

Attacking Iraq will not decrease the likelyhood of military action against the United States by Iraq or anybody else.

For the record I no longer live in JP :(

I think you can see why.

Hey FC,

Everything you say was said for the first Gulf War.
Whats your response?

Jealous people have attacked us ever since we became a productive, rich, FREE country. Now is the time to stop them not pardon them.

Do youself a favor get off the couch and go to some $hit hole third world dictator run country for an immediate lesson. If you survive to make it home to the cozy warm United States Of America lets hear from you.

Who is organising the protests against the free countries to liberate Iraq et al? Hmmm. Do some research and get back to us.

Who is funding the terrorists?

Who pays the Arab refugees families 25K when they blow themselves up in the company of a free democratic target?

I could go on but I beleive you and your ilk dislike my President my country my FLAG that you will not hear what is said.

Flag loving DAV sends

Hey Guys,

I don't usually post much, I just kinda hang out and watch the proceedings but I feel the need to jump in because I think FC is taking a lot of heat for asking relevant questions. Being that our country is founded on democracy I for one am glad that somebody out there is asking questions for both sides both pro and anti war. It's people like FC that aren't afraid to stand up and be different that make America as strong as it is. If we can't come up with concrete, specific, fact based reasons why we need to go to war with Iraq then we should really reconsider. I feel that it shouldn't be based soley on emotion because we all know what happens when we get caught up in the moment, whatever it is. It's people like FC that protect us from the tyranny of the majority and hopefully make us consider all the options ahead of time before it's too late.

That being said I think John R did a pretty great job laying out a fact based set of reasons why a war with Iraq is justified. Colin Powell also did a really good job in his first presentation to the UN. He laid out countless examples of weapons violations on Iraq's part and brought forth lots of evidence showing the danger Iraq poses. I hate Sadam and I can't stand France, I wish Osama was dead and outta the picture but I am still cautious about sending American forces overseas to fight. Not because I'm not patriotic, quite the opposite, i Love my country and I sincerely appreciate and respect those who fight to defend it and my freedom. It's because I do so I want to make sure that they're going over there to fight and endanger their lives for a really damn good reason.

I support the decision to attack Iraq, I think having a madman with chemical, biological and eventually nuclear weapons, who kills his own people and could potentially ignite a very volatile middle east situation is extremely dangerous and warrents our involvement. Furthermore the fact that he hasn't complied with the Security Counsels mandates until the absolute last moment and is still in material breach of numerous other violations just shows that he's only trying to buy time while he prepares himself.

Anyway, hopefully we'll get some more support from the rest of the UN and get some decision one way or the other, all this waiting around is really dragging out this process and i think the economy would do a lot better if we could just put all this uncertainty behind us. Just my .02.

God Bless America

"Lou"

TO BE AN AMERICAN
 

IS TO BE PROUD!!

As someone whom has down a lot of traveling around the globe both in the military and sailing through the thrid world with my folks. I can tell you that you get three responses from people about the states. 1. Awe 2. jealousy 3. fear. The problem with the Ossama's and Saddams's of the world is that they are looking to increase their prestisge among other Muslims by messing with the US. A lot of these people live in abject poverty (Indonesia) or live in kingdoms run by royal families (Saudi) and the money does not trickle down very far. Since the US supports Saudi etc.. we get the blame for their #^&#^&#^&#^&ty lives. Also there is our rightful support of Israel. We have to deal with a strong hand with #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&s like Bin Laden. Death is too good for that mother@#$%$. As far as Hussien no matter what we did I agree with Bush that we would end up having to do a smack down. However I feel Bush went off half cocked and now has us backed into a corner. We pretty much have to kick his ass no matter what the world thinks or come off looking weak, which we can not afford. The best thing for the US right now would be a revolt in Iraq. As far as the French. They are just being French. No on in Europe takes them seriously. They are the Keystone Cops of Nato. They other country's are happy to have a chance to stand up to us for once. When you are the biggest guy on the block all eyes and egos are on you. Let's pray this ends with little loss of US lives. AS far as FC remark that fighting these guys will lead to more terrorism. As far as I remeber as a kid The bully will keep kicking your ass until you kick his, then he is just a punk.

You're right on the money Duke!...

Looks like this thread created a monster!...

Sorry guys, that wasn't my intent...

We do need to do something about this situation in Iraq and we need to act soon!

World opinions seem to sour more and more as we wait out the inevitable...

I usualy do not respond to these types of postes but could not stand and have LOU tell me that its people like FC that protect us from TYRANNY no it is not it is poeple like the boys over seas NOW that are doing that and the men now in their 70-80s that saved ALL of Europe in the 40s that PROTECT us and with out them FC would be SHOT by other people like him for not liking what others say.I do not like war and would like to see some other way but you do what you have to do to PROTECT us and others from TYRANNY. I never was in the service but both my brothers were during veitnam and my father servied in the Pacific in ww2 he knows war and saw things he will not talk about to this day . But he also knows that there are poeple that must be dealt with to save our own lives and yes even FC. I am glad FC can speak his mind but I think we all need to ask our selves how this right is given to us and WHO PROTECTS IT.

Ps now I am going to go fishing thanks DAD, JOE,WALTER and all the others that have given so that I can!!!!!!!!!!

Go Greg!
Lets mount a 60 on the bow of your boat. Well make our own homeland security department (on Cutty) Bet Goose will join or fleet.

I actually don't think this is a bad thread. It's good to get some people thinking instead of a "toe the line" knee jerk reaction. (I just seriously disagree with your thinking).

Yeh, war is wrong. I think even half the military will say and may even agree with that. The decisions to put our boys & girls into harm's way is something not to be taken lightly. Many might not come back. Like Duke, I think GW has effed up much of the process and simply should have done a better job. But there are too many pressing issues, too many bad signs, too much bad potential energy stored up in Iraq that can't be ignored.

When has Saddam really complied on ANYTHING unless the bomb bay doors were open?

Saddam gives a little lip action to the "International Commitee", Tariq Aziz calls it a conspiracy by the US & UK against the peace loving people of Iraq (which I don't doubt the people of Iraq on - it's the government that will roast your nuts for grins & giggles), then Saddam goes to one of his hundreds of bazzilion dollar palaces, waves an old AK or Enfield around firing in the sky in front of a public looking crowd that are really actors from the Ministry of Information. He then looks into the Al Jazeera camera and says he's the good guy & everyone is picking on him!

Its been the same thing over and over for the past decade. Nothing has changed with Iraq. But the current global climate has changed. The threat to the "free world" is no longer a tangable geographic entity with its westernmost foot print at the Inter-German border. The current threat is that small guys with small resources are willing to do maximum damage and inflict maximum death, on US for the most part. They can get this help from a guy like Saddam and he's willing to do it on his own too.

OK - 'nuff mouthing off for me - gotta get back to work...

I couldn't agree with you more Greg!...

It's good to see that America still has Patriots today!

For those who like to complain about this country like those in Hollywood...

Why don't you LEAVE this country!...

Then and only then will you understand the Greatness of America!

who cares blow them up take there oil we live good.
make french kiss our butts.
Hey You should Join the army Ya know that
they live like dogs any way, might as well put a leash on them

Hey GB, i think maybe i didn't come across as clearly as I meant to, when i said tyranny of the majority, i meant the idea that just because the majority of people feel one way, that doesn't mean it's the right way, it's kinda the reason we have the Senate, where a tiny state like RI gets as much say as a huge state like California or Texas. I don't mean to imply that FC protects us from a tyrannical ruler or anything like that, just that having someone to play devils advocate and ask questions from the opposing side is a useful and necessary part of our government. Sorry I guess I don't type as clearly a 1am.

Duke, I think you're right on when you say Bush went about it the wrong way. I agree with you that we're kinda in a tight spot because we can't back down now, and something obviously needs to be done, but i'd be better if we had more support. I think Bush noticed that too because I remember one of his speeches from the fall before the whole Iraq situation got as heated as it is now, and he didn't have nearly as many facts or reasons for going to war. Then it was completely based on emotion. Now it seems like he's doing a better job of giving solid reasons why we the situation is unacceptable and why we're not going to put up with it any more.

"Lou"

errrr.....:af:

who it their right mind would WANT this a$$hole to have these weapons???? Its time to level the playing field. If he wants to fight he can fight....but fight fair! If hes allowed to do whatever he wants now we dont stand a chance later on!!!

Ever bring a knife to a gun fight?????

War??? bring it on! So we can all continue to live freely in this great country!

Everybody,

You are all convinced that this war is about Saddam's weapons and terrorism. You are wrong.

This war is a smokescreen. It is being used as an excuse for laws like the Patriot act that errode the basic freedoms that each of you is willing to have people die for.

It is being used as a diversion from the corporate scandals currently going on which are robbing the American middle class of their hard earned savings. When Enron collapsed, who lost everything? The workers, upper-level management walked away with hundreds of millions. Where's the outrage? Gone, because we are all worried about the war and terrorist.

This administartion (and the last administration) is run by the richest of the rich. This war is about global consumerism and economic subjugation.

One important note; This is one issue in which the far right and the far left both agree. I am generally very liberal politically, so maybe you don't want to listen to me. Here is a website from the far right, and it is saying the same thing.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/
http://www.infowars.com/


It is astonishing what is going on in America and I hope you all wake up.

I, for one, have to say this young man does make at least some sense. In the very least, he has been polite and stated his opinion clearly, in a straight forward manner, and without resorting to anger, name calling, and/or head bashing, which unfortunately, I have seem some of on this thread. :(

His type of response makes for good political discussion and discourse, no matter whether you argee with the premise or not.....:)

The other types of responses carry the opposite effect. :(

Carry on.........

Additionally,

Osama should burn for his beliefs and actions.

The French don't get much respect in my book.

Just so you know where I stand.

What are you talking about? Leveling the playing field? We demolished the Iraqi military in the first Gulf War and they are in far worse shape now.

It is Iraq that is bringing a knife to a gun fight.

Were you serious?

Oops, I made two very, very bad assumptions there...."young" and "man".....I'm embarassed, apologize if, in fact, they were wrong.......:eek5: :smash:

Steve,

You were correct

FC,
What is your opion on what the UN security council stands for?

I'll tell you what I think it stands for .... nothing.

How do you enforce a resolution? Keep asking and asking and asking.
Sadam has been a pain in the ass since pappa georgio went in there after the yellow Iraqi's (sadam from his secure post) attacked and burned defenseless Kuwait, causing that little issue of the greatest environmental disaster in the WORLDS history.

Well the UN security council said, Iraq you have to disarm, Iraq gave the UN a firm maybe, but only if you force us too.

So as usual, the united states must take the cancer out.

Congratulations if you're a troll, you got a rise out me.
But since I served and love my country, I wanted to say what I feel.
By the way is your real name Bill Maher?

Ah, perhaps the meat of the matter.......my wife thinks so, anyway.......

fishsmith,

I'm not sure how to feel about the UN. I need more information to know what is going on.


Sadam, from his secure post, attacked and burned defenseless Kuwait.

American Presidents, from their secure posts, attacks and burn other countries all the time. Does this make our president's yellow?

This points to the black/white nature of emotional reasoning versus the shades of grey which make up rational discourse.

The real truth is that the troops who are fighting this war, both our and theirs, are brave. And the leaders who are promoting this war, do not have to be brave to do their job.

FC,
You are a troll.

To say the United States attacks and burns other county's all the time, proves it to me.

I'm done posting here.

To sort of badly quote Winston Churchill:

If a man is 20 and is not a liberal, he has no heart. If he is still a liberal at 40, then he has no brain.

fishsmith,

I was speaking in terms of political time.

The United States military has been directly involved in armed conflicts around the world frequently since WWII.

Mike P,

You make a good point.

I think having kids has a lot to do with this.

Troll

Go make some friends then you will have someone to f*&^ with..loser.

Hey Duke,

Bite me.

Can you not tell that I am serious about what I am talking about.

FC for what it's worth Saddam has had 10 years to comply. How much longer should he have? If I breakthe law here in this country, I don't get 10 years to comply, correct? He is breaking international law. HE does'nt get it. If the UN does'nt have the BALLS to stand up and enforce the mandate, then the UN might as well fold. The UN would show that they are worthless, and every third world nation with a dictator would be running amuck creating havoc for everyone.

Sorry if BALLS offends anyone.

Hey FC I went to the school of hard knocks.
Join the service and see the world...........

I see this situation like this...The U.S. is the top dog in the world today... no different than the Romans or any other super-power of the past. If you want to remain top dog you have to bite and bite hard when kicked. Now if you don't think losing the Trade Towers and and Four airplanes full of civilians in one morning isn't a kick, then I feel sorry for your poor dumb a$$. Pick any of the World's other Hell Holes and go there...now.:af:

yeah...I was hoping for something a little more "harsh"!!!;) ;) :D



yes I am serious! lookit the whole point is for him to DISARM right? well why ????? because we arent talking petty weapons here.......ever hear the term "weapons of mass distruction"??? thats my point...and my OPINION.....and I agree we all have to have our own opinions! I like a little friendly debate now and then.....keeps the juices flowing......hey, you dont like or agree with my opinion and I dont like or agree with yours, and I am ok with that!!!!!!